Adarq.org
Sport Specific Training Discussion => 800m+ Running and/or Conditioning => Topic started by: adarqui on May 05, 2019, 10:46:12 pm
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https://www.flotrack.org/articles/6479754-sub-two-part-two-eliud-kipchoge-to-take-another-shot-at-history
"INEOS 159"
I thought he'd try it in Berlin.. but looks like he's going to do it similar to the breaking2 project.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE0INdjrUHc
exciting.
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was just thinking.. what happened to Nike? eek.
i mean, all you see is "INEOS" everywhere. Nike has to be pissed. lol.
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this INEOS stuff is kind of annoying..
i'd rather see him try it in Berlin :<
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i think if you ask ross tucker, there's no way he could do it in an actual race. he wasn't all that close when he broke the WR in berlin last year: 3% is a yawning gulf at that level. the breaking2 thing really does require perfect conditions, the pace car allowing him to draft, the track. at least for now.
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i think if you ask ross tucker, there's no way he could do it in an actual race. he wasn't all that close when he broke the WR in berlin last year: 3% is a yawning gulf at that level. the breaking2 thing really does require perfect conditions, the pace car allowing him to draft, the track. at least for now.
agree with the perfect conditions part - in terms of weather.
i think if Berlin has perfect conditions, he could actually do it there. but that's a pretty big gamble. With breaking2, they had a window, much better way to do it.
i think he could do it in Berlin tho. His 2:02:37 in London is pure insanity. I imagine that puts him low 2:00's in Berlin, under good weather conditions. Geremew ran the race of his life to get under 2:03. Kipchoge ran smart and turned it up at the end. He's just on a completely different level. IMHO, he only needs pacers for the first half - or a little longer. After that, this guy can get it done running by himself - well, not by himself, he needs the fans cheering at least. As long as he has energy from the crowd, he can do it. He doesn't need other runners. I think he definitely feeds off the crowds though, it keeps him focused/happy.
As for the fitness, it looks like he has it to me. Going 2:00:23? (breaking2) 2:01:37 (berlin) then 2:02:37? (london, holding back) is unreal. This guy doesn't "burn out" / "get content" running at his peak, instead he gets motivated to run faster the next year. Superior mental fitness, his biggest strength IMHO.
Find a clip of Kipchoge running, fresh in a race, good form and strength. Then loop that clip for 2 hours. that's Kipchoge. :ninja:
But ya sub2 is crazy.. I can't bet against Kipchoge tho, he's an alien. :ninja: :ninja: :ninja: :ibrunning:
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just a response to someone i follow on yt who said eliud is becoming "too corporate" and why not have all of the pacers be kenyans from his training camp:
I don't mind if Eliud is becoming "too corporate". As he's stated in many interviews, he wants "everyone to run". I genuinely believe that's his main mission now. He wants people to come together by running & to become empowered by running. As for him only using his Kenyan training partners - don't see why INEOS would want that from a marketing perspective, nor Eliud from a global perspective (several nations coming together to help achieve this goal). Many of those pacers have their own fan bases, who will now be more inclined to tune in - if they weren't already. Regardless, some of his training partners & close friends will be pacing him in the event. I'm sure there will be quite a few additional ones from his team, who just aren't listed on the site. The list of pacers on the INEOS site is small, I imagine there will be many more runners involved. I'd be surprised if the final full list of pacers weren't majority Kenyan. Finally, even with all of his success, he continues to live & train in Kenya. He's always shining a light on his team, community, country etc. peace!
i love eliud ;d
:-* :-* :-* :ibrunning:
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posted this video in run vids, but probably should have posted it here.
so good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rMjOzO5td0
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coming soon omg. :o :o :o
oct 12 (most likely).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5BgB9_6d6c
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwkqBMVCfo
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he's either going to hit 1:58:XX or go over 2.
he's in incredible shape right now, apparently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp8_4sP1xDM
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the pacemaker list is INSANITY.
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set your reminder. 2 AM ET on 2019-10-12, if everything goes to plan.
you know where i'll be :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-XgKRJUEgQ
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzeYw7Nm_1A
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I love Kipchoge so much.
"I don’t know where the limits are, but I would like to go there."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DuwZ_Zfe94
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"I don’t know where the limits are, but I would like to go there." -- Eliud Kipchoge
"Saturday will be like going up to the moon and coming back to earth." -- Eliud Kipchoge
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well that was incredible.
i'm exhausted from watching it. edge of my seat type of feeling the entire time.
eliud really battled through some rough spots. it was scary. but he finished so strong. he could have probably gone under 1:59... it's unreal.
he almost got tripped once as well!
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celebration in eldoret.
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absolutely love this photo.
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and love this photo. eliud before the attempt.
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jack rayner, last 5km of ineos 1:59
https://www.strava.com/activities/2781845880
(https://i.imgur.com/hIHaxQb.png)
and another segment:
https://www.strava.com/activities/2781586119
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quick recap
the end really is incredible. one of the most amazing things i've seen in sport. how the pace car leaves, then he just burst through his pacemakers & hits the burners. really was "space shuttle"-ish hehe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAxYQJewtbU
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How does he do it? To run a marathon under 2 hours. Looking at the way he ran and the pace he was running at was just crazy sub 1 hr half marathon and then accelerating at the end and even after finishing he had energy. If he was to run and push himself that at the finish line he is in the same state as most of the 5k 10k runners are, tired lying on the fall exhausted then who knows how quick he can go.
I don't think I will be able to comprehend on what an amazing feat he has just achieved.
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Read a very interesting article that was expressing some skepticism about this. Not criticism, skepticism, some concerns and philosophical issues that come up.
I mean, noone will disagree how much greatness this accomplishment has. But what was that exactly? Will athletes be choosing the perfect conditions in a perfect time and place, in a perfect period of their training, in their own selected personal course, under the sponsorship of a billionaire? Couldn't that lead to the death of sports as we know them, to the rise of some kind of laboratory-experiment style features? This is not about Kipchoge, but to where is this leading.
On the other hand, it's not that we are so far from it as we are right now. It is the same thing happening already probably, just sweetly/wisely camouflaged.
Thoughts?
Regardless:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/eliud-kipchoge-marathon-2019-ineos-159-challenge-nike-splits-numbers-statistics-a9153111.html
His average time per 100m was 17.02 seconds, 200m at 34.03, 400m at 01:08.06, 800m at 02:16.13 and 1,500m at 04:15.3. His 100m pace was replicated 422 times.
*remains speechless
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i don't know about the slippery slope argument. he wasn't doing sports, it was more akin to trying to climb a mountain that no one has ever climbed before, or to give a specific example like alex honnold's free solo ascent of el capitan. there's no competition involved, it's a team with specialized roles behind an athlete, with corporate sponsorship.
the technology involved -- shoes, phalanx of pacers, timing guide projected on the ground -- make it a very different thing than a competitive race. no comparison, really. it's a great athletic achievement but it doesn't have any larger meaning with respect to running. the whole difference between his actual WR and 1:59:40 is the shoes and the pacers/screeners and the flat unidirectional course.
my $0.02.
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Agree to all of the above.
The slippery slope is : how will you ever enjoy the sports marathons when you know they are an inferior... how to call it... 'venue'?
It will still be , say, Mo Farah today, running alone far ahead from the 2nd probably, finishing at 2'08'' or something. You will be watching the exact same thing with Kipchoge, a guy running alone trying to bet his best, but knowing his best can never come close to the 'lab' one,
Imagine the same thing spreading. A perfect conditions 9:3x 100m. Who will sit to watch 10'' races again after that. Competition is great and all, but the real adrenaline spike is when you check the clock to see if they WRed. Where are we going if this is taken away from us?
Not saying it is happening, but yes , worried that this might have been the start of it.
Also all those thoughts don't subtract even the slightest percentage of my owe and admiration of Kipchoge's accomplishment, which goes far beyond a timed running section.
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Idk, if you had two kipchoge's in the same race going at it what would happen? And concerning 'lab conditions' how many people are capable of going sub 2hr in ideal conditions? Do they even exist or is Kipchoge in a class of his own? Do people have treadmill times better than him?
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Idk, if you had two kipchoge's in the same race going at it what would happen? And concerning 'lab conditions' how many people are capable of going sub 2hr in ideal conditions? Do they even exist or is Kipchoge in a class of his own? Do people have treadmill times better than him?
This question helps me very much to demonstrate my argument.
The answer is nobody. Nobody can do this. Not even himself. That is the problem.
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Agree to all of the above.
The slippery slope is : how will you ever enjoy the sports marathons when you know they are an inferior... how to call it... 'venue'?
It will still be , say, Mo Farah today, running alone far ahead from the 2nd probably, finishing at 2'08'' or something. You will be watching the exact same thing with Kipchoge, a guy running alone trying to bet his best, but knowing his best can never come close to the 'lab' one,
Imagine the same thing spreading. A perfect conditions 9:3x 100m. Who will sit to watch 10'' races again after that. Competition is great and all, but the real adrenaline spike is when you check the clock to see if they WRed. Where are we going if this is taken away from us?
Not saying it is happening, but yes , worried that this might have been the start of it.
Also all those thoughts don't subtract even the slightest percentage of my owe and admiration of Kipchoge's accomplishment, which goes far beyond a timed running section.
i don't know, i guess i disagree with what's compelling about watching sports. i don't watch sports expecting the WR to be broken every time, i watch to see people at the absolute limit of human ability trying to outdo each other. it's thrilling when records are broken, of course, but a photo finish is just as (maybe even more) exciting IMO. there's no comparison between kipchoge running 1:59 and him setting the WR in a race against other people who are also trying to run as hard as they can and beat him.
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The WR checking was about the 100m race example only.
Once again, don't get me wrong, i am not even sure i am convinced by my argument. But something is bothering me. I think what bothers me is that although this has nothing to do with the marathon, it masks the marathon. No marathon win will ever be the same , because no marathon win will be below 2 hours. Whatever happens, even if we see an epic marathon where the winner wins the runner up passing him at the last 100m and at an inhuman time of 2:00:01... "meh, Kipchoge would have owned that bitch", "bro, can you even run sub-2h?".
Maybe not for you and me and some other people, but for the vast majority i see that as a threat.
Anyway, good food from thought from your POVs too. Hope you are right and my skepticism is wrong.
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Idk, if you had two kipchoge's in the same race going at it what would happen?
that's a great point.
if kipchoge was battling kipchoge in berlin, he'd have gotten much lower than 2:01:39 in 2018 - which he ran alone after mile 16-18 or so?
Bekele dropped 2:01:41 recently. everyone wants to see Kipchoge vs Bekele now.. Kipchoge's wrecked him in every marathon though, so I don't suspect it would be any different.
Also, Bekele's 2:01:41 was not run alone, in fact, he had to chase Legese all the way to the end, who had almost a ~minute lead on him at some point, then he just smoked Legese in the last few miles. Legese ended up running under 2:03, which is incredible. But that's an example of Bekele having a rabbit to chase, and it ending up helping him. He's tried to chase Kipchoge before and gotten destroyed by it.
They may face each other in Tokyo 2020 (olympics). Conditions won't be ideal. Apparently it'll be very hot. That makes for a less fast race, but a more interesting one. Kipchoge should still dominate, like he did in Rio etc, or that hot London marathon a few years back, where he just crushed everyone.
And concerning 'lab conditions' how many people are capable of going sub 2hr in ideal conditions? Do they even exist or is Kipchoge in a class of his own? Do people have treadmill times better than him?
I feel like Kipchoge is certainly in a class of his own. Bekele dropped a nuclear marathon result - but he's not consistent in the marathon. You never know what you're going to get with him. That's the biggest difference between Kipchoge and EVERYONE else. Kipchoge always shows up and performs at the highest level. Everyone else has bad days, which is normal. Mo just ran 2:09:XX in Chicago, a very bad day for him.
The athletes pacing Kipchoge are world class, and many of them looked like they were working. lmao.
13.1x mph for 1h:40s is insanity.
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Agree to all of the above.
The slippery slope is : how will you ever enjoy the sports marathons when you know they are an inferior... how to call it... 'venue'?
It will still be , say, Mo Farah today, running alone far ahead from the 2nd probably, finishing at 2'08'' or something. You will be watching the exact same thing with Kipchoge, a guy running alone trying to bet his best, but knowing his best can never come close to the 'lab' one,
Imagine the same thing spreading. A perfect conditions 9:3x 100m. Who will sit to watch 10'' races again after that. Competition is great and all, but the real adrenaline spike is when you check the clock to see if they WRed. Where are we going if this is taken away from us?
Not saying it is happening, but yes , worried that this might have been the start of it.
Also all those thoughts don't subtract even the slightest percentage of my owe and admiration of Kipchoge's accomplishment, which goes far beyond a timed running section.
i don't know, i guess i disagree with what's compelling about watching sports. i don't watch sports expecting the WR to be broken every time, i watch to see people at the absolute limit of human ability trying to outdo each other. it's thrilling when records are broken, of course, but a photo finish is just as (maybe even more) exciting IMO. there's no comparison between kipchoge running 1:59 and him setting the WR in a race against other people who are also trying to run as hard as they can and beat him.
yea i hate when the announcers are always yapping about seeing a WR.
it's a bad way to watch sports imho. that's when you begin diminishing performances if they aren't on par with some WR etc.
and when it comes to the marathon especially, conditions and courses are very important. That's why Berlin is the go-to race for trying to set a WR. you can't compare Berlin to Bostn/NY/Chicago/Tokyo etc. So in regards to the "perfect conditions course" etc, we already have that in marathon running. Some courses are crazy fast with perfect weather, some are much slower, some are hot, etc. So it just comes down to the competition at that point.
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The WR checking was about the 100m race example only.
Once again, don't get me wrong, i am not even sure i am convinced by my argument. But something is bothering me. I think what bothers me is that although this has nothing to do with the marathon, it masks the marathon. No marathon win will ever be the same , because no marathon win will be below 2 hours. Whatever happens, even if we see an epic marathon where the winner wins the runner up passing him at the last 100m and at an inhuman time of 2:00:01... "meh, Kipchoge would have owned that bitch", "bro, can you even run sub-2h?".
Maybe not for you and me and some other people, but for the vast majority i see that as a threat.
Anyway, good food from thought from your POVs too. Hope you are right and my skepticism is wrong.
that stuff w/ the fans already happens at every level. can't win there so might as well just not worry about them.
we'll see someone get under 2 hours official, that's for sure. everyone has been running alot faster since breaking2 - potentially shoe related, but also just guts related.
i don't think any of this masks the marathon. it's already masked.. drink stations w/ "performance fluids", shoe technology, etc.
the only way to unmask the marathon, is to have it run barefoot on grass w/ no calorie intake. it's been taken over by shoe/electrolyte companies.
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i'm with LBSS on this one. i see it just like someone trying to climb a mountain etc, just an oldschool endurance endeavor.
for me personally, it won't enter my mind as a bar for people to be measured up against, for actual marathon competition.
kipchoge's already done that in berlin etc.
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Obama tweeted out to Kipchoge / Kosgei.
Yesterday, marathoner Eliud Kipchoge became the first ever to break two hours. Today in Chicago, Brigid Kosgei set a new women’s world record. Staggering achievements on their own, they’re also remarkable examples of humanity’s ability to endure—and keep raising the bar.
https://twitter.com/EliudKipchoge/status/1183661760001253376
Kipchoge responded:
Dear Mr. Obama, Thank you for your special words. In life we hope to inspire others. Thank you for inspiring me. It would be my greatest honour if we could meet, and discuss how we can make this world a running world. As a running world is a peaceful world. #NoHumanIsLimited
https://twitter.com/EliudKipchoge/status/1183661760001253376
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btw. to see how impressive this feat was, just look at the pacer's reactions. these are some of the best runners on the planet, and they are just blown away by kipchoge.
they know well the difficulty in it, even with the artificial conditions etc.
let's not forget.. Desisa & Tadesse both participated w/ Kipchoge in breaking2 years back. All 3 had the same shoes/fluids/pacers etc. Desisa/Tadesse didn't even come close. They fell off so hard.
i'd like to see some other athletes try it. i don't think any1 on Earth other than Kipchoge (currently) can do it.
pc!
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im sure every1 knows i h8 the vaporfly's, 4%'s etc.. look at these alpha fly's.. eek.
still doesn't take much away from it for me, since everyone is running in shoes like this now & only a few people are pushing the limits in them.. not like they are turning every1 into monsters. still tho, it's a bit absurd.
i have a pair of 4%'s.. probably the worst running experience i've ever had. respect to any1 who can run in them. they feel like clown shoes to me.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGxNPm4XUAQOTqi?format=jpg&name=medium)
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nothing we didn't know already, but nice video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14xZ8iiFPYc
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i don't know, i guess i disagree with what's compelling about watching sports. i don't watch sports expecting the WR to be broken every time, i watch to see people at the absolute limit of human ability trying to outdo each other. it's thrilling when records are broken, of course, but a photo finish is just as (maybe even more) exciting IMO. there's no comparison between kipchoge running 1:59 and him setting the WR in a race against other people who are also trying to run as hard as they can and beat him.
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100%
Some WR are 30+ years old. It doesn't make the current athletes any less relevant despite the times. Usain Bolt ran a 9.58 100m. Usain is a beast. It doesn't take away from any of the current top sprinters even if their running 9.8 or 9.9 etc.
The Australian record for a 200m is currently 20.06, which was set back in 1968 by Peter Norman.
(https://static.ffx.io/images/$zoom_0.762%2C$multiply_1%2C$ratio_1.776846%2C$width_1059%2C$x_0%2C$y_412/t_crop_custom/w_375/q_86%2Cf_auto/d722cf40ef7a8d4c395261d11fa1cdf881941012)
The current fastest Australian 200m sprinter in 2019 ran 20.59. A 20x 200m is still elite. It just means once the record is eventually broken it will be a great accomplishment.
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I'm a bit surprised by all you guys. I was just giving a possibility of a different perspective. I was wondering if this has a double meaning. If it is a start of something different. If there is any 'lab-style' vs 'free' sports case and if that is a good thing or not. And i repeatedly stated that i myself am not sure at all that there is, just thinking about it. Also that i am in awe of the achievement nevertheless. Your replies make me feel that i said i was passionately against the INEOS and you are trying to convince me about the opposite. How can you all be so sure, so soon. e.g. adarq you have one separate reply post to debunk the 'mask marathon' argument, yet you named this topic 'attempting a sub2 marathon'. I mean come on!
Anyway, maybe i am failing to express my skepticism well enough, or maybe i am misinterpreting your replies. Lets agree to disagree.
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I'm a bit surprised by all you guys. I was just giving a possibility of a different perspective. I was wondering if this has a double meaning. If it is a start of something different. If there is any 'lab-style' vs 'free' sports case and if that is a good thing or not. And i repeatedly stated that i myself am not sure at all that there is, just thinking about it. Also that i am in awe of the achievement nevertheless. Your replies make me feel that i said i was passionately against the INEOS and you are trying to convince me about the opposite.
i think you're misinterpreting my replies. not trying to convince nor do i think you're against it, i understand you're just bringing up some other points/perspectives.
How can you all be so sure, so soon. e.g. adarq you have one separate reply post to debunk the 'mask marathon' argument, yet you named this topic 'attempting a sub2 marathon'. I mean come on!
not seeing what you mean there?
pc!
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Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
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I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.
How can you all be so sure, so soon. e.g. adarq you have one separate reply post to debunk the 'mask marathon' argument, yet you named this topic 'attempting a sub2 marathon'. I mean come on!
not seeing what you mean there?
pc!
What i mean was:
A) how can you be so sure INEOS is not what im saying it could be? the event happened yesterday. how can you be sure it wont lead to a new type of sports? the lab-style im saying. i don't know that it will, i am not claiming it will, i know i wouldn't want it to happen and i know that INEOS is somewhat leaning to the other side. But how do you know it won't happen? Because your replies ( not yours yours andrew, im speaking to all ) don't seem to have the slightest concern.
B) the second point, is that in one of the 5 consecutive replies ( which might have also helped me misinterpret, you feel your opinion 'attacked' when you see 5 consecutive replies from 1 person ), you talked about how this attempt won't mask the marathon like i said im concerned. yet , even though this was clearly not a marathon but a 'rock-climb-like attempt' and 'will never mask the marathon', you named the topic 'Eliud Kipchoge will make another attempt at a sub2 marathon'. I mean , again, come on!
EDIT:
re-read it.
i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?
only you adarq showed a little more 'passion' but then again its still perfectly polite and unbiased, especially considering your love for long running and the athlete himself.
apologies, lets close it here.
pc
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Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
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I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.
How can you all be so sure, so soon. e.g. adarq you have one separate reply post to debunk the 'mask marathon' argument, yet you named this topic 'attempting a sub2 marathon'. I mean come on!
not seeing what you mean there?
pc!
What i mean was:
A) how can you be so sure INEOS is not what im saying it could be? the event happened yesterday. how can you be sure it wont lead to a new type of sports? the lab-style im saying. i don't know that it will, i am not claiming it will, i know i wouldn't want it to happen and i know that INEOS is somewhat leaning to the other side. But how do you know it won't happen? Because your replies ( not yours yours andrew, im speaking to all ) don't seem to have the slightest concern.
B) the second point, is that in one of the 5 consecutive replies ( which might have also helped me misinterpret, you feel your opinion 'attacked' when you see 5 consecutive replies from 1 person ), you talked about how this attempt won't mask the marathon like i said im concerned. yet , even though this was clearly not a marathon but a 'rock-climb-like attempt' and 'will never mask the marathon', you named the topic 'Eliud Kipchoge will make another attempt at a sub2 marathon'. I mean , again, come on!
damn vag relax!! lmfao. :d
EDIT:
re-read it.
i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?
only you adarq showed a little more 'passion' but then again its still perfectly polite and unbiased, especially considering your love for long running and the athlete himself.
apologies, lets close it here.
pc
it's cool, no prob!
i don't share the concerns because i feel like the event itself was already seen by so many, as separate. ie not a "true marathon".
if stuff like this does pop up more often, i'm all for it. ie, if they had another breaking2 attempt with several guys & the illegal pacemakers/perfect course, i'd be very interested. i'd love to see people try and fail as well. it won't be easy.
they already have things like "downhill mile races", completely straight 200m/400m races etc, all kinds of things that aren't legal. all 5k WR's were banished this year or something, because of the corruption/lack of drug testing etc, so they basically reset it.
what i like the least about all of this, is the shoes. so regardless of course/pace modifications, the shoes are the biggest problem. shoe companies are going to keep pushing the envelope here, until someone "steps up" and bans them. i'm all for carbon fiber plates in running shoes, but not "engineering to artificially accelerate foot rocker" and stuff like that. to me that' where it gets muddy. people run with carbon fiber plates all the time in XC/Track etc - those are the best shoes. Just some crazy light shoes with a carbon fiber plate to protect the foot and/or slightly improve energy return, but nothing fancy.
regarding pacing, men's road races don't benefit from having pacers the entire way, but most women's races do - that's why they have "women only records". for example, the recent Chicago Marathon WR set by Brigid Kosgei, she benefited from male pacers. Men can't benefit from anything other than illegal pacers. So the illegal pacing aspect of INEOS 159 isn't as crazy as it seems. As for the course, race organizers are always looking to create fast courses. Some of those courses are illegal. I'm pretty sure the course in INEOS 159 was actually legal, ie it's just a big loop which is fine. Something like the Great North Run & Boston Marathon are illegal by WR standards because they are a point-to-point run, you can benefit from a tail wind the entire race etc.
i've been saying it for a long time, i'd love to see elites barefoot race (on safe grass/dirt) w/ no hydration/fluids. :ninja:
but ya i'm not really worried about it, other than the shoe tech component of it. that's the sketchiest aspect of this event, IMHO.
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Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
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I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.
i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?
Nah it was an interesting discussion. I was saying idk not as a reaction to this thread .. but to the criticism i've read on eg reddit where people are low key sour grapes / hating by saying 'he had the shoes' or 'he had pacers' etc etc. As if the elitest of the elite doing something outworldly just to do it, invalidates their own modest achievements in running? I think the fact that it's not an official WR already establishes the special circumstances of this event. We don't really have to dwell on those aspects .. whereas when i look at the reactions like 60-80% of the reactions are saying something like 'meh .. he had pacers'. na bro, he legit ran a marathon (yes in ideal circumstances) at that pace and that's an amazing achievement in itself. Want to hear more about the achievement and less about why it's not so great. He's not some nobody doing something crazy but can't replicate it in more normal conditions which would make it more of a 'yea but' situation.
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Bleh, I already feel i continued this much longer than i should have.
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I felt there was a lot of 'passion' against all i said. I repeatedly said im trying to open a philosophical discussion about it. Yet i didn't see not even one slight agreement to any of my concerns. And yes, the type of counter-arguments look like convince-like, re-read them. Im sure im biased a bit and its not as much as i say ( or as much as it sounds im saying ), but it is.
i feel like a drama queen. everyone said 'idk' and argued in pretty low profile. we just disagree and you dont share my concerns. so what?
Nah it was an interesting discussion. I was saying idk not as a reaction to this thread .. but to the criticism i've read on eg reddit where people are low key sour grapes / hating by saying 'he had the shoes' or 'he had pacers' etc etc. As if the elitest of the elite doing something outworldly just to do it, invalidates their own modest achievements in running? I think the fact that it's not an official WR already establishes the special circumstances of this event. We don't really have to dwell on those aspects .. whereas when i look at the reactions like 60-80% of the reactions are saying something like 'meh .. he had pacers'. na bro, he legit ran a marathon (yes in ideal circumstances) at that pace and that's an amazing achievement in itself. Want to hear more about the achievement and less about why it's not so great. He's not some nobody doing something crazy but can't replicate it in more normal conditions which would make it more of a 'yea but' situation.
some more details on the event itself:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/eliud-kipchoge-ineos-159-marathon
i'd like to hear more about stride freq/length/heart rate/body weight/running economy stuff etc. haven't seen a detailed analysis of that yet.
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some interesting stuff in the timelapse..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TnUw2USvI
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Im fine with the shoes lol. Actually, being an old fart that needs all the tech-boost possible, i love this 'forced' technology advancement with shoes, because sooner or later it will be out in normal price, just as it happens with F1 advancements ending up in normal production cars.. Im fine with hydration too. Actually i am fine with everything. What i am not fine with is that this 'perfect' condition thing might take away some shine from the 'real' sports, because it will always be ahead in performance from the 'normal conditions' event. There was no competition at this one but next time there will be. Then who knows what we will see, maybe a 100m with the best athletes in the world, in a perfect conditions and oxygen enhanced atmosphere chamber? Then the Olympics 100m will be the second best 100m, simply because the other one they will be running faster. Which is actually fair tbh.
As for haters, screw them, can't win with them, i actually feel sorrow for someone that the best he can come up with is 'man he had pacers'. Its pointless to even argue, logic has long left the building lol
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ryan hall calls out the shoes, calls out iaaf in regards to 2020 (and beyond)
completely agree. it's getting out of hand.
non-nike sponsored athletes are running in nike's to try and even out the playing field. shoes w/ multiple carbon fiber plates and accelerated foot rockers need to be banned from pro competition.
With all due respect to @kipchogeeliud as he is clearly the greatest marathoner of all-time regardless of the shoes he is in, when a shoe company puts multiple carbon fiber plates in a shoe with cushion between the plates it is no longer a shoe, it’s a spring, and a clear mechanical advantage to anyone not in those shoes. I’m just hoping @iaaf_athletics makes sure the upcoming Olympics and @wmmajors are fair playing fields for athletes of all brands. *** see next post for further clarification
CLARIFICATION: I feel the need to make a few clarifications on that last post as apparently people can’t read without projecting their assumptions on it . •
1) I am no way trying to takeaway from @kipchogeeliud amazing performance this past weekend. I am continually blown away and impressed by his performances, which I thought I made clear by saying he is the GOAT “REGARDLESS of shoes”. He did it. He broke 2 and I’ll be the first to celebrate that. If you don’t believe me listen to my interview on the @bbcnews. •
2) The only reason I posted was simply to state my opinion that shoes need to be regulated with strict rules so that it’s an even playing field for elites across all brands. I’m all about advanced in technology that help us run faster. But I don’t think athletes should be losing races because they are in a shoe that doesn’t have a spring-like mechanism in them. This isn’t about unreleased prototypes not being available, it’s about mechanical advantage. Other sports have limits they place on the gear- cycling, triathalon, golf. So needs track and field.
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https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9654527
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Those pacemakers were pretty good. The pacers were really planned well; how they would switch and the formation.
Him running the race at around 4:34/mile for 2 hours just makes me laugh how crazy that sounds but when you look at other people try run that pace and how close to sprinting they are you can see how much eliud's build benefits him too, long bouncy strides. He runs so effortlessly when at the pace.
The speed would be at around 13mph.
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Those pacemakers were pretty good. The pacers were really planned well; how they would switch and the formation.
Him running the race at around 4:34/mile for 2 hours just makes me laugh how crazy that sounds but when you look at other people try run that pace and how close to sprinting they are you can see how much eliud's build benefits him too, long bouncy strides. He runs so effortlessly when at the pace.
The speed would be at around 13mph.
yup. just over 13.1 mph. it's insanity.
i've been watching the 2016 rio marathon recently. so many in shape folks running along side the marathoners for a bit - some for several miles. so they must be running at 4:5X pace etc. was surprising. pretty cool tho.
must be so awesome to run that speed, that easily (for 13-26 miles).