Author Topic: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith  (Read 2255 times)

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Raptor

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AlexV

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2013, 08:25:01 pm »
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OK read.  I am not a fan of the overcorrection into posterior pelvic tilt.  I guess we should expect it because spinal flexion was bad so there was an emphasis on lordosis/ant tilt.  Now we are hearing how bad excessive lordisis is and are correcting to flexion/post tilt.

Of course the answer lies in the middle.  Train proper core function (neutral spine and pelvis) and then layer on hip mobility, strength, and power. 

Not to say I don't ever cue posterior tilt, as it is handy when trying to get an athlete from ant tilt to neutral.

The clean pull on to toes looked like a nightmare.  Cant imagine a group of guys doing that one well.  Also why do we have to always include an olympic lift variant in any discussion about training an athlete.  To be honest it didn't look much like a clean pull.  I like his suggestion of bounds for the ankle and hip pop.  Korfist has some good ones as does bosch.
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Raptor

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2013, 01:46:04 am »
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The clean pull on to toes looked like a nightmare.  Cant imagine a group of guys doing that one well.  Also why do we have to always include an olympic lift variant in any discussion about training an athlete.

I thought that as well to be honest.

TKXII

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 09:14:42 am »
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The clean pull on to toes looked like a nightmare.  Cant imagine a group of guys doing that one well.  Also why do we have to always include an olympic lift variant in any discussion about training an athlete.

I thought that as well to be honest.

I think the exercise is supposed to do good but with a barbell won't get the best results. I think a heavy kettlebell can accomplish much more for the same movement.

But he said that he thought of this exercise watching Gerald Greene dunking, and noticing his feet pointing nearly vertically at the ground right before toe-off. He said he wanted to train that. Now those are good intentions but this exercise won't do the same thing. Coupling ankle extension with hip extension to lift a weight vertically makes no sense imo and is not similar to Gerald Greene's jump where he couples much more knee extension with his plantar flexion (and hip extension too).

It would make more sense to me if the forces were being delivered horizontally. But in that case he would have to be jumping forward or throwing the bar forward which also won't work that well.

Imo a much much better exercise for someone trying to work on toe off and hip explosiveness(apart from depth jumps, signle legged plyos, sprinting, and everything else that does that) are kettlebell broad jumps. It's much more specific and the toe off happens after the hips pass over the feet making it more like sprinting and the long jump. But that should only be performed by avishek-certified trainees because it is "dangerous."
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

LBSS

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 09:51:19 am »
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bro let's do that shit. can you boost a kettlebell from your gym?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

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Raptor

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 10:51:26 am »
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A better exercise would be a overhead kettlebell throw. It will still encompass the triple extension but also do so in a vertical plane. But for safety I'd use a heavy medicine ball.

LBSS

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 12:04:07 pm »
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A better exercise would be a overhead kettlebell throw. It will still encompass the triple extension but also do so in a vertical plane. But for safety I'd use a heavy medicine ball.

using a med ball you miss out on the level-7 potential of the exercise. IRON OR BUST, BRAH.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

TKXII

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 12:23:53 pm »
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An overhead throw isn't bad but the jumps will train the ankles better and is more specific. An overhead throw basically requires hip hyperextension. Good to train I suppose but not better

The broad jumps are really excellent with the kettlebell, the swing of the kettlebell adds a lot of momentum. Uncoordinated people will just have a difficult time with the landing. Also the beautiful thing about the kettlebell is he degrees of freedom,l; if you wish to use your hips more and quads less you can do so; if you wish to use your quads more you can squat into it. With the jumps you can do what I call "hip-isolated" jumps where you just swing from your hips. With a barbell, the weight isn't distributed under your hips so you cannot train nearly as specifically. I really don't understand why anyone would opt for a hang snatch or hang clean to train explosiveness when you have this.

Yea I could snag a kettlebell from my location easily by going out the back door, then drop t off in a car or something. Dno about the back door at the other locations but I can look around.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 12:27:14 pm by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 12:58:12 pm »
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Because a broad jump with a heavy kettlebell in your hands sounds like a terrible accident waiting to happen  :P

TKXII

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 01:39:54 pm »
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That's why it's only for Avishek-certified students. I've done it before and it's not dangerous at all for me. I've done it with a 28kg.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 02:43:02 pm »
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So you wholeheartedly think landing after a broad jump with a kettlebell that is a live weight with its own "mind" of where it goes and that you have limited control of in that position is not that risky?

I don't think I'd do it with a 2 kg dumbbell.

TKXII

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Re: 3 laws of breakaway sprint speed by Joel Smith
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 03:32:51 pm »
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No. I may make a video soon. Also your assumptions about the KB having a mind of its own are unfounded.

There are safe ways to perform this exercise. Now I didn't recommend it for everyone, but I said its better than the exercise Joel smith is doing.

The key is to flex the knees and hips immediately upon landing instead of locking the joints this way te muscles start absorbing the forces immediately and it is safe
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf