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Performance Area => Article & Video Discussion => Topic started by: LanceSTS on July 13, 2010, 02:07:54 am
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http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=62
I have been up all last night and finally finished reading EVERY single post in the thread and I have to admit it was probably the most interesting and thought provoking thread I have ever read in my life. First of all, I dont for one minute buy into all the magical claims of the isos and blah blah blah. The intriguing part to was if they could really be used as such a good recovery method that many of the posters were talking about. I have read about the "extreme stretches" as used in DC training, Parillo, etc. and it seems that they might have similar properties. The one thing that no one mentioned in this thread was the possibility of hyperplasia occuring from the stretched positions. I realize the extreme stretches differ alot from what the Schroeder guys are claiming the isos do, but seem very similar in SOME of the positions. Another confusing part to me was why not reach times congruent with hypertrophy/strength protocols, then add load? I mean that would seem to make the iso much more effective from a strength OR a stretching/ shock to the whatever the hell they think they are shocking that is eliciting these awesome hormonal and neural changes they are claiming. We all know that an isometric done at the weakest joint angle carries over to the stronger joint angles as well, so wouldnt this make perfect sense to do shorter duration/ heavier loaded isos once a baseline level of competence has been reached? I also would have liked to have heard more from RJ as he seemed to be responding well to them as far as what type of strength increases and speed gains he may have made. I know he said he felt better recovery but that could easily be from the similarity to the pnf stretches if not much other gains were made. If so I would really like to hear about them.
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So you read 51 pages of that thread? :o
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It goes to 72 and yes, every damn word. It gets interesting. Kelly B comes in and debunks some bs they were talking about, Andrew comes in and makes a couple of people look stupid, and there is some good info and points in there as well.
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http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=62
that thread ruins athletes :) people have been derailed for years because of that thread.. it is evil.
if you want to see some real good dialogue on iso-extremes, check these threads:
- ldiso questions: http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=638
- attended evo-sport seminar: http://wgfforum.llsint.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=671
colbert/others get blasted in those threads.. those two threads helped break a few people out of being brainwashed.
I have been up all last night and finally finished reading EVERY single post in the thread and I have to admit it was probably the most interesting and thought provoking thread I have ever read in my life.
ya, most everyone has that reaction.. but what you don't realize in that thread, is that most everyone who has been "trying as hard as possible to master iso extremes", has been doing so to no avail for years. Furthermore, james colbert is basically a fictional character with no credentials and no real experience.. he claims it took him years to master iso extremes, then when he finally did, within a month he put on like 10 inches on vert and gained 20 lb muscle, or some stupid shit.. Plus, he thinks athletes are capable of max sprinting 100% every single day and 1RM lifting every single day after you master iso extremes.
First of all, I dont for one minute buy into all the magical claims of the isos and blah blah blah.
good, those iso extremes are utter bullshit.. iso extreme lackeys buy into them because of jay schroeder's claims.. if you read the call em out on here about jay, you'll see his claims verbatim in quotes, such as doing depth drops from 20 feet or 80 year olds deadlifting 700 lb every day for months etc..
The intriguing part to was if they could really be used as such a good recovery method that many of the posters were talking about. I have read about the "extreme stretches" as used in DC training, Parillo, etc. and it seems that they might have similar properties. The one thing that no one mentioned in this thread was the possibility of hyperplasia occuring from the stretched positions. I realize the extreme stretches differ alot from what the Schroeder guys are claiming the isos do, but seem very similar in SOME of the positions. Another confusing part to me was why not reach times congruent with hypertrophy/strength protocols, then add load?
well, RJ brought up a good point about kaatsu and iso extremes, so their seems to be a correlation between the hypoxic environment created with 5 minutes straight of blood occlusion if a "contraction were to be held that long", but really no one has hypertrophied to any significant degree using them, or actually improved anything.. everyone "feels faster" when doing iso extremes, but if you try and bend a spoon long enough with your mind, you might actually think you bent it a little too :D
I mean that would seem to make the iso much more effective from a strength OR a stretching/ shock to the whatever the hell they think they are shocking that is eliciting these awesome hormonal and neural changes they are claiming. We all know that an isometric done at the weakest joint angle carries over to the stronger joint angles as well, so wouldnt this make perfect sense to do shorter duration/ heavier loaded isos once a baseline level of competence has been reached?
ya, that's my point and other's point on ldisos.. but that's what WGF does.. WGF uses loaded isos, such as say iso lunge with barbell.. james colbert and folk say that you can't possibly work the correct muscle patterns by loading the ldisos, because then it becomes a form of 'yielding isometric', which in fact "they arent" (lol) they are in fact "maximum velocity eccentrics by pulling yourself into position and thinking about the sporting environment without even flinching" (lol).
I also would have liked to have heard more from RJ as he seemed to be responding well to them as far as what type of strength increases and speed gains he may have made. I know he said he felt better recovery but that could easily be from the similarity to the pnf stretches if not much other gains were made. If so I would really like to hear about them.
he stopped, as well as most everyone who has done them.. the only people who have kept doing ldisos for years have absolutely nothing to show for themselves (unfortunately) other than the ability to hold a position for 5 minutes.
iso extremes are full of shit and that thread should be deleted from the internet.. chris K, if you are reading this, I would gladly delete that thread for you.
fuck i hate that thread lol..
james colbert basically got run off of charlie francis's forum for preaching the iso extreme bullshit, but nobody bought it there, everyone laughed at him including charlie & james smith.. so he found WGF and made it his home, completely transforming the enhanced inno sport WGF forum into a pile of dogshit iso-extreme forum.
peace man
ps: check out all of my challenges to james colbert in those threads i linked, not one was answered.. i actually do wish they worked as claimed, but they dont, and the people pushing them are full of shit.. not to mention they try to get you hooked on ARP.
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Well Im confused, do you like the ldisos or not? LOL nah I know those were ridiculous claims and that James dude that kept trying to use extreme lingo to try and ward off potential arguments kind of gave him away. I didnt know he was such a d bag though and wondered why he wouldnt say what gains he made in the thread. It was fun to stay up and read the whole fucking thing for nothing then. That being said I did a couple of iso holds for 1 minute today before my workout. hahahaha.
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Well Im confused, do you like the ldisos or not?
hahahahahahahah :)
LOL nah I know those were ridiculous claims and that James dude that kept trying to use extreme lingo to try and ward off potential arguments kind of gave him away. I didnt know he was such a d bag though and wondered why he wouldnt say what gains he made in the thread.
yup, because as "smart as he is", when you have NO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with what you claim you have, in terms of getting results with yourselves and others, then you simply cannot make up any lies that are worth believing.. it's too hard, especially when you're trying to sell a method would is supposed to turn avg people into archuletta's.. imagine if he said he had gained 5" on vert and gained 10 lb muscle in 4 years, can't sell iso extremes with that.. so instead, it's:
"i didn't gain anything for a few years until i finally figured them out, then i turned into a freak in one month, but i have no video or any way of proving myself, also i have absolutely no credentials or testimonials from any athletes i have helped over the years, but take my word for it iso extremes will make you into archuletta". -- lulzguy
It was fun to stay up and read the whole fucking thing for nothing then. That being said I did a couple of iso holds for 1 minute today before my workout. hahahaha.
hahahahahahahah!@$!@$!@%!@%!@
nice man, it takes a minimum of two years to be able to do them correctly though.. did you PULL YOURSELF INTO POSITION? bwahahah! if not, pull... if you didn't gain anything in 6 months, pull harder... if you're pulling as hard as possible, then you're not pulling hard enough, or you aren't thinking about sprinting.. if you are doing all of that and still no gains, did you flinch? if you flinch they don't work.
peace
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Well I did those in the past...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMEH2u0N-lY
But for 20 seconds... more of yielding isometrics. I have no idea if they did anything. Maybe they improve the "isometric" control so to speak... make you more aware of how much can you tense isometrically. That could have a carryover in a one-leg jump where you contract isometrically your jumping leg to plant.
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So did you ever figure out if Colbert was Schroeder? Kept me up all night again lol. clients in 2 hrs, no sleep but I did 3 iso holds so Ill be fine.
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Held them for 5 minutes... right...? :-\
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So did you ever figure out if Colbert was Schroeder? Kept me up all night again lol. clients in 2 hrs, no sleep but I did 3 iso holds so Ill be fine.
he's most likely not schroeder, people say he existed at one of the evo-sport seminars.. he's either extremely obsessed or paid to preach.. it's one of those two.
pC
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After reading about every single thread on the internet regarding Jay Schroeder and his current stance on ldisos (all of which stemmed from trying to find a fucking video clip Ive seen in the past haha), I have come to the conclusion that he has developed a mental disorder, shortly after Adam entered into the NFL. Its beyond me how someone could have the amount of training knowledge he has, have produced training means that actually were effective (before the ldisos), and want to ruin it all by turning into a nut. I mean, he was the first one I recall doing alot of the weighted drop and catch exercises, weighted isometric pauses (the way I saw them done on the vid), and seems to actually have had an effective system PREVIOUSLY. Pushing that stupid machine and his new religion of only ldisos and other wierd stuff wouldnt make him nearly as much money as putting out quality training videos, quality templates, and personally using his credibility he gained through the Archuleta performance at the combine to train a massive amount of professional athletes. The only conclusion I can draw from it he developed a mental disorder somewhere along the way and is in no way firing on all cylinders now. I mean this new trash hes preaching cant possibly be only for monetary gain or he would surely have taken the route I suggested above. Its actually kind of sad to me because I appreciate people bringing less traditional methods like the weighted drops, catches, etc. that he used in the past to our attention. Sadly he has ruined the good he did in the past by misleading people in the present. So yea, the dude has a mental disorder in my opinion. He knows way too much about training and physiology to say the things he does publicly and make the ridiculous claims he does otherwise.
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After reading about every single thread on the internet regarding Jay Schroeder and his current stance on ldisos (all of which stemmed from trying to find a fucking video clip Ive seen in the past haha), I have come to the conclusion that he has developed a mental disorder, shortly after Adam entered into the NFL.
I would have to agree with that, except, I think he had one long before Adam entered the NFL.. :) The level of his lies are what strike me as "insane".. Those lies cannot even pass for "white lies", they are on a level of fantasy and lunacy that far exceeds rational and logical thought.
Its beyond me how someone could have the amount of training knowledge he has, have produced training means that actually were effective (before the ldisos), and want to ruin it all by turning into a nut. I mean, he was the first one I recall doing alot of the weighted drop and catch exercises, weighted isometric pauses (the way I saw them done on the vid), and seems to actually have had an effective system PREVIOUSLY.
Right, I can't figure that out either.. The only thing that makes sense to me, is that whatever "brain disorder" he may have, he began to believe his own lies and associated them with his training idea of iso extremes.. For example, "he saw his wife become a champion powerlifter months after a car accident and all she did was iso extremes", so that weird ass delusional lie somehow created a link between success and the iso extremes... Now do that for all of his other insane claims and link those together, he just ended up believing it somehow..
You know, like these out of shape clients dad's you run into who claim to have run 4.3x 40's back in high school or college.. well, they've been telling themselves they've run 4.3x for 20+ years, so now they actually believe it.. if you were to ask them how they trained to get to that 4.3x, they would concoct some kind of system that they would completely believed to have resulted in their success.. so something along those lines happened to Schroeder.. He seems to be one of those guys.. I mean he claims 4.3? or 4.4? 40 yard dash, champion powerlifter, and all kinds of crazy shit.. I have no doubt he saw these insane acts of strength/power that he claims, but, no one else has, he in fact saw these acts in his mind.. they did not happen..
JackM said it best, Schroeder is borderline schizo.. This statement might very well be accurate.
Pushing that stupid machine and his new religion of only ldisos and other wierd stuff wouldnt make him nearly as much money as putting out quality training videos, quality templates, and personally using his credibility he gained through the Archuleta performance at the combine to train a massive amount of professional athletes. The only conclusion I can draw from it he developed a mental disorder somewhere along the way and is in no way firing on all cylinders now. I mean this new trash hes preaching cant possibly be only for monetary gain or he would surely have taken the route I suggested above.
You bring up a great point... I have absolutely no answer to that question, other than he must firmly believe iso extremes do what he preaches, but man we just all know they don't... Somehow he believes it though and it's become some sort of cult-like training ideology.
Its actually kind of sad to me because I appreciate people bringing less traditional methods like the weighted drops, catches, etc. that he used in the past to our attention. Sadly he has ruined the good he did in the past by misleading people in the present. So yea, the dude has a mental disorder in my opinion. He knows way too much about training and physiology to say the things he does publicly and make the ridiculous claims he does otherwise.
ya man, great post.. i too am disappointed he has gone this route.. I'd love to see him snap the fuck out of it and get back on track.. stop hugging the nuts of this lame ARP/iso extreme bullshit and get back to what he preached pre-archuletta. One of his interns basically put together inno-sport which was modeled after alot of what Jay Schroeder was doing back then, so that's about as close as you'll get to some kind of pre-insanity schroeder training ideology.
shit is so confusing man i agree.. possibly more confusing than Alan Barch Jr aka SquatDr.
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Maybe he should photoshop a few things and that's it... :D
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Maybe he should photoshop a few things and that's it... :D
that whole situation still bugs me.. :)
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Well that's actually good that it bothers you because, like me, I think you will agree that AC was giving up good advice. I mean the guy wasn't talking silly stuff and he was a pretty nice guy. The photoshopping blew the thing up.
So when you combine these two things in an antithesis... you can't help but feel bad for the whole situation.
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Well that's actually good that it bothers you because, like me, I think you will agree that AC was giving up good advice. I mean the guy wasn't talking silly stuff and he was a pretty nice guy. The photoshopping blew the thing up.
So when you combine these two things in an antithesis... you can't help but feel bad for the whole situation.
ya he was giving out some solid information, that's why it bugs me so much, that he would "claim to want to be the best athlete in the world", then provide so many shady videos yet amazing pictures.. makes no sense.. and no videos of his 50 SVJ / 55 RVJ or other "world records".. another mystery.. but i guess if it's a mystery then it isn't solid, real athletes put up or shut up.. usain bolt don't brag about 9.2's he "hit in training", he goes out, competes, and amazes the entire planet..
i don't want to get into it, but god damn it still blows my mind.
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(You know, like these out of shape clients dad's you run into who claim to have run 4.3x 40's back in high school or college.. well, they've been telling themselves they've run 4.3x for 20+ years, so now they actually believe it)
hahaha every fucking day. The most common one is "I used to box" yet in their first class they dont which foot to put forward. lol lol lol. There is so many people like that, they say the same thing over and over until it becomes truth to them. hahaha soooo true. This made me lmao because I often wonder if other people who train athletes had to experience this shit as much. I used to have a huge problem with all the athletes coming in that would claim to run 4.5s and vert 40 and would always call them out immediately. Now I have them fill out a stat sheet and take it with me to the track when we test. Its alot easier to tell someone they are completely full of shit and get it to sink in when they have just made a fool out of themselves a few seconds earlier. I have had probably less than 10 high school football athletes give me their realistic 40 times when they came in, and a few more than 10 college athletes that are honest, most of whom are smart enough by that age to realize "this guys fixing to test me" . But the majority are waaaay off, some because of their coaches falsifying their own times to them, and some of them because," I jump and run faster than anybody in my school so .... 40 inch vert, 4.3 40yd". Funny how I have yet to have a guy come in that has underestimated his stats. Maybe one day, that would be a nice change of pace for me.
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(You know, like these out of shape clients dad's you run into who claim to have run 4.3x 40's back in high school or college.. well, they've been telling themselves they've run 4.3x for 20+ years, so now they actually believe it)
hahaha every fucking day. The most common one is "I used to box" yet in their first class they dont which foot to put forward. lol lol lol. There is so many people like that, they say the same thing over and over until it becomes truth to them. hahaha soooo true. This made me lmao because I often wonder if other people who train athletes had to experience this shit as much.
ya man it happened to me all the time.. I knew dad's who used to squat 800+ lb in their hayday, fat guys who used to run 4.2's, weaklings who claim 10' broad jumps, all in front of their kids/other athletes.
I used to have a huge problem with all the athletes coming in that would claim to run 4.5s and vert 40 and would always call them out immediately. Now I have them fill out a stat sheet and take it with me to the track when we test. Its alot easier to tell someone they are completely full of shit and get it to sink in when they have just made a fool out of themselves a few seconds earlier. I have had probably less than 10 high school football athletes give me their realistic 40 times when they came in, and a few more than 10 college athletes that are honest, most of whom are smart enough by that age to realize "this guys fixing to test me" . But the majority are waaaay off, some because of their coaches falsifying their own times to them, and some of them because," I jump and run faster than anybody in my school so .... 40 inch vert, 4.3 40yd". Funny how I have yet to have a guy come in that has underestimated his stats. Maybe one day, that would be a nice change of pace for me.
that's a good point right there.. for people i've trained in person, I can only think of 3 or so who gave me their legit stats right off the bat, and these 3 were some of the hardest workers too.. that's why i tell everyone on these forums not to lie to themselves or about their stats, it does something to your brain that inhibits you from making real gains.
I think athletes would make even more gains if you really ruined there stats on pre testing and made them feel inferior haha.. imagine a legit 4.2x 40 kid being told he runs a 4.6x by multiple coaches / facilities.. he'd probably run a 4.0x 40 in a few weeks off shear anger..
When athletes think they are better than they are, then it tricks the brain into actually making less gains, is my theory.. No need to tap into training at a very high emotional/mental level when you "think you are good/better than you are".. something to it.
peace!
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shit is so confusing man i agree.. possibly more confusing than Alan Barch Jr aka SquatDr.
I saw a few Alan Barch Jr.'s videos few weeks ago. What's the story with him? I searched for his name as well as squatdr but the results is short. Is he legit? What's so confusing about him?
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Well, he's a scammer. Despite that, he actually knows stuff and it's a good guy to talk to.
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shit is so confusing man i agree.. possibly more confusing than Alan Barch Jr aka SquatDr.
I saw a few Alan Barch Jr.'s videos few weeks ago. What's the story with him? I searched for his name as well as squatdr but the results is short. Is he legit? What's so confusing about him?
Well, he made lots of claims and refused to provide videos, so he'd get pissy/angry when people requested vids, so finally I made this thread just to shed light on my perspective of what he might be doing:
http://www.theverticalsummit.com/viewtopic.php?t=4247&highlight=&sid=a28a7bc3c7e211d2def6447d9fb295c1
He claimed people came out to officially test him on those AMAZING 55" RVJ pictures, and they even took video.. but where is it? why won't those people come out and defend him? Plus all of the other crap in that post, he just can't be real... Like I said, I would publicly apologize on youtube if he showed legit proof of his ability, i'd genuinely feel very bad if I was wrong, even though it would be very much his fault for just being so weird about posting proof.
Bottom line, when you claim world records (squat, vert, running vert, and a damn good 60m sprint) & you try to influence people like he did, you need legitimate video or you get called out.
peace man
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The funny thing about that to me is that it was a shock to people when they realized how wack those claims were. You should probably de bunk the tooth fairy and santa claus next.
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The funny thing about that to me is that it was a shock to people when they realized how wack those claims were. You should probably de bunk the tooth fairy and santa claus next.
ya exactly.. i don't understand how anyone could buy into those claims, man that's some weird shit..