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Performance Area => Article & Video Discussion => Topic started by: FP on May 02, 2017, 11:59:13 pm

Title: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on May 02, 2017, 11:59:13 pm
Any people on the board struggle with posture difficulties? How much of an effect do you think postural problems have on athletic performance? Anyone have success with some particular approach to fixing these posture issues? I have pretty bad upper cross syndrome and slight APT+lower cross syndrome.  I try to do corrective stretching and strengthen the apropriate muscles but without too much luck.

When playing sports, my neck is one of the first things to tire and I have difficulty keeping my head up. Another issue that I think comes from forward head posture is I have to momentarily look down during my ME SVJ windup - I can't keep my head up to consistently look at the target for the entire jump.

I have had lots of minor back tweaks lifting (most common injury), and during interval sprints my back is usually the first thing to tire. I think this might be due to my posture loading up my back more. I have difficulty taking deep breaths during some movements - bounds, RDL's, sprints, which i attribute to tight abdominals making difficulties for my lungs to fully expand.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: LBSS on May 03, 2017, 09:27:25 am
i don't know, i kind of question postural purism and feel like bodies can within reason have all sorts of default postures and still function fine. when we met i didn't notice anything glaringly off in the way you stand or move.

plus, posture is complicated. to me it seems like it's better to pic a few areas where you're restricted and just work away at them patiently, rather than trying to fix posture as a means, if that makes sense. let your posture be what it is but keep working on this and that and it will improve on its own.

personally, i'm a bit swaybacked, in mild APT, have forward head posture especially when sitting, asymmetrically tight hips, hilariously bad right shoulder internal rotation, etc. etc. etc. etc. but i'm working mainly on my wrists and shoulders right now because hand balancing is a big part of my training.  if i were you i'd keep plugging away on your shoulders, pick two shoulder opening exercises and just do them super consistently, and patiently. GMB has a couple of good videos for that on their youtube channel, iirc.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: Coges on May 09, 2017, 12:24:52 am
I'm with both of you. Have always had posture issues. Being tall with short friends never helped either lol.

Like LBSS said. Pick one or two areas to focus on and hit them consistently and you'd be surprised at how quickly the changes add up. Obvious ones are internally rotated shoulders, weak upper back and tight pecs. This alone will go a long way to a better moving upper body. Add in HF work and glute med activation and you're on your way for lower.

Your breathing could be an issue all of it's own. I wouldn't blame tight abs but more faulty breathing mechanics. I'm a natural diaphragmatic breather (thanks to my early nerd years in choirs and bands). If you're a chest breather than that's something else to address and it can make a world of difference.

For me, if I pick one or two things and consistently hit them then add to that over time I find it works best.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: jr on May 09, 2017, 10:30:18 am
I sit at a computer all day for work. Guaranteed posture problems. My back definitely gets rounded throughout the day if I don't focus on having good posture while I sit. And it's simply not possible to focus on it all the time when I'm actually trying to work. That being said, I don't think it affects my athletic performance a whole lot. I feel like my posture seems to naturally (temporarily) improve when playing sports for whatever reason.

I think a lot of my problem is that the muscles in my chest and the front of my shoulder are much stronger than the ones in my back and the back of my shoulder. This seems to cause everything to be pulled forward. I played baseball my whole life until I was about 24-25, but for the last 6-8 years of that I was primarily just a pitcher. At one point I had to go to physical therapy due to throwing shoulder issues, and they told me that the muscles in the back of my shoulder and in my back near my shoulder blade were really weak. It seemed sort of crazy to me at the time since the pain was up in my shoulder. But sure enough, I did a lot of exercises focusing on those areas and the pain went away.

Anyway, I'm hoping that dedication to a full body lifting program will result in being stronger everywhere which will lead to better posture and overall well-being.  I'm also considering the switch to a standing desk at work if I can swing it.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: vag on May 10, 2017, 04:06:13 am
I probably easily outscore all of you in bad posture. Kyphotic , head forward, awkward body ( very long arms/legs/neck , small torso, big head ) , sitting all day in front of a computer for 15 years now. I have never done anything to fix it, just learned to live with it. FWIW, i think that developing a big(-ish) back kinda helped, makes me want to not have it rounded with some sort of not-making-sense way, so i have noticed the last couple of years i naturally tend to be straighter. Will be watching this thread closely...
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on May 10, 2017, 02:13:42 pm
As far as postural purism, I agree that you can function fine or even well with variety in default posture but I still think there's an optimal posture which is an attainable goal and will raise my ceiling for all my athletic pursuits.

I mean I'm pretty much doing just what you guys are advising, occasional strengthening and stretching to muscles that affect posture. I think it's a step in the right direction but I don't think it's a fix. It's giving me the keys but my posture isn't going to correct itself just because I'm doing these things. However, trying to make sitting and standing correctly always a habit is exhausting and impractical. It requires an unrealistic amount of awareness and commitment.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/betterback-perfect-posture-effortlessly#/
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-ergo-posture-transformer#/

These indiegogo posture improving devices (which are some of the highest funded things in the fitness section) caught my attention. I looked through amazon reviews for the "BetterBack" and I'm still a little bit skeptical but they seem to work for most people. It seems that they cause pain for a small portion of the buyers and not recommended for people with spinal issues.

Gonna do more research, talk to my doctor but definitely considering getting one of these.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: Coges on May 11, 2017, 02:54:01 am
Just looked at those devices and I'm not sure I could ever bring myself to wear one. Even if it was a direct fix.

I also find that posture is connected emotionally as well. When I'm confident, feeling good and well dressed my posture is impeccable. When I'm lazing around or tired or emotional then my posture is crappy.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on August 02, 2017, 01:14:00 pm
My dad picked up this book called "Hara: the vital center of man". It's pretty much in the format of "ancient japanese zen master wisdom" which I usually try to avoid lol but I checked out the chapter on posture was really interesting and I believe it will have good carryover to athletics if I manage to get it down:

Quote
What right posture with its center of gravity in Hara means in the purely physical sense can be easily demonstrated. A man standing in his ordinary posture will fall forward if he is suddenly pushed from behind. If he stands with Hara he will feel surprisingly stable. Even a hard thrust cannot topple him or even push him forward.

Right posture can be acquired only is one does three things: drop the shoulders, release the lower belly and put some strength into it. For this it is sufficient to say "I am, I feel myself down here, a little below the navel."

So pretty much you're shoving your organs down your belly with your diaphragm, shifting your center of gravity down also helping promote deeper stomach breathing. I've heard that adding fat to the midsection can increase stability and balance I believe this is along those same lines. When I apply this advice I feel so much more balanced but it might take a while to become a habit.

Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on December 03, 2017, 03:35:46 pm
Picked up that Betterback posture correcting device about a week ago. I have also been using an upper body device for about 3 weeks. The key is to use them intermittently. The Betterback I use 30-60 mins a few times a day. The upper body corrector I wear most of the day.

Right now my posture is actually pretty good. I think forward head posture needs some work and my quads are generally pretty tight. I have a bad habit of sitting asymmetrically which messes with your stability. But both lower cross (APT) and upper cross (hunchback) are significantly better.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: Kellyb on December 11, 2017, 01:45:13 pm
I agree a lot of coaches nowadays are overly obsessed with posture and mobility but one worth looking at is ankle mobility. Look at the first video in this thread:

http://www.adarq.org/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/fix-your-squat/

See the assessment at the 6:30 mark. If your ankle mobility is really bad you can fix it pretty quick, and it'll often positively impact your jump and help eliminate knee pain.  I correspond with a guy who coaches a mens pro team in europe and he told me out of his entire team only 2 players could pass that test, but those 2 are the only 2 that leverage strength gains directly into vert/speed improvements without any need for SPP.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: adarqui on December 11, 2017, 07:09:01 pm
I've never been able to fix a "postural problem". Kyphotic posture when using the computer is a major problem, as mentioned in the posts above. I feel like mine has worsened over time.

For the last few months, up until the last few weeks, I have been focusing on my posture alot while running. I started noticing myself trying to force it too much though during actual races etc, which was bugging me. So I stopped focusing on it all together and have been feeling great in my recent runs/races/training sessions. I just absolutely loathe forcing my body into positions. I want it to simply be in the right position (for me) as a result of something else. Thinking about it really bothers me for some reason.

I also haven't been stretching much lately at all, tired of the little tweaks/aches that can result from it. I also feel more mobile/flexible after a day or so of rest, so maybe that's just what I need, better recovery :D

^ So in regards to that clip seifullaah73 posted (nice videos), if you had me do that test (or quad/ham flexibility etc) throughout the week, i'd be all over the place. Sometimes I can easily get my heel to my butt when I test my quad flexibility, using one hand.. Other times, I can't even get it there with two hands. So I think noticing the fluctuations and perhaps what's causing these fluctuations, is very important. When I can easily get my heel to butt with one hand, i'm ready to fly - i'm a rubber band, so bouncy & explosive. Most of my tightness comes after intense speed sessions/races etc it seems. High intensity speed work, or really long distance running/walking can make my calves, quads, and hamstrings feel like rocks. I'd fail most mobility tests the day after. Two days after I could probably pass most mobility tests.

Also, trying to "loosen things up" can make them worse. Stretching my calves or hamstrings when they are tight, can really mess them up.. especially my calves. That's one reason i'm almost afraid to stretch my calves, and one of the many reasons i'm so careful with stretching in the first place. If my calves are tight and I stretch them, the next day I can feel all kinds of tweaks. If I simply force myself not to "play with fire", the next day they can feel great.

A few days of complete rest usually has me feeling extremely loose, mobile, flexible, light etc.

I guess what i'm saying is, no one ever talks about resting to improve flexibility/mobility, hah. We always want to poke & prod, do something to fix.. When in reality, maybe we just need to just barely move all day & relax.

Predators aren't foam rolling or using a lacrosse ball on their off days, lmfao. :ninja:

I dno, it's tricky.. because you see people who do get results from some things, and lots of things that seem completely useless. If there is something that works, for sure use it. But alot of stuff to me has always seemed like a waste of time, and is often promoted in a manner of a mechanic fixing a machine. I guess that's what really gets to me about most of the corrective stuff, is that coaches tout it in such a mechanical manner, engineering, but I just don't see large scale results from it.

As for postural related issues created by sitting, using the computer, etc.. Those are pretty much entirely under our control. It just takes will power at that point to correct them, over a long period of time, by improving posture & just being consistent with generally strengthening the body. If someone said that could fix my posture instantly with some kind of corrective exercises, i'd laugh in their face. Who knows, maybe they can, but I seriously doubt it. Years of postural decorrection can't be fixed with weeks of postural correction or a chiro IMHO.

peace!
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: arnoud on December 19, 2017, 02:23:35 pm
I agree a lot of coaches nowadays are overly obsessed with posture and mobility but one worth looking at is ankle mobility. Look at the first video in this thread:

http://www.adarq.org/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/fix-your-squat/

See the assessment at the 6:30 mark. If your ankle mobility is really bad you can fix it pretty quick, and it'll often positively impact your jump and help eliminate knee pain.  I correspond with a guy who coaches a mens pro team in europe and he told me out of his entire team only 2 players could pass that test, but those 2 are the only 2 that leverage strength gains directly into vert/speed improvements without any need for SPP.

Hey Kelly,

Good to see you back as a proud owner of vertical jump bible 2.0. I am 36 years old, and after a few injury riddled years (and the birth of my son) back at vertical jump training. Still an obsession after all these years. My mobility is still horrible. You mention ankle mobility is a pretty easy fix, but I never could quite fix that (hence the injuries). What would you recommend?
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: Kellyb on December 19, 2017, 06:45:09 pm
If it's really bad it might take some time to fix. But in my experience the best way is long extended static stretches of around 2 minutes. Elevate the front half of one foot slightly (like on a book or something) and lunge forward until you feel a good stretch, and hold. If you have had a lot of ankle injuries you probably have scar tissue built up in there and it might take some time to work the range of motion back in.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: arnoud on December 20, 2017, 07:33:24 am
Thanks as always Kelly
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2017, 10:39:58 pm
If it's really bad it might take some time to fix. But in my experience the best way is long extended static stretches of around 2 minutes. Elevate the front half of one foot slightly (like on a book or something) and lunge forward until you feel a good stretch, and hold. If you have had a lot of ankle injuries you probably have scar tissue built up in there and it might take some time to work the range of motion back in.

Sounds like what I did with my soleus/ankle stretches during dishes, hah. I'd just ease into it and often hold it for a few minutes, while doing dishes. Definitely seemed to help quite a bit. Tried to find the photo I took, can't find it yet. For people with calf tightness/ankle mobility issues, it could be a decent strategy.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: AGC on December 21, 2017, 02:48:45 am
If it's really bad it might take some time to fix. But in my experience the best way is long extended static stretches of around 2 minutes. Elevate the front half of one foot slightly (like on a book or something) and lunge forward until you feel a good stretch, and hold. If you have had a lot of ankle injuries you probably have scar tissue built up in there and it might take some time to work the range of motion back in.

Sounds like what I did with my soleus/ankle stretches during dishes, hah. I'd just ease into it and often hold it for a few minutes, while doing dishes. Definitely seemed to help quite a bit. Tried to find the photo I took, can't find it yet. For people with calf tightness/ankle mobility issues, it could be a decent strategy.

I forgot to mention it when you first posted that one, but it's a fantastic stretch. I've done similar variations (ball of foot on wall, stretch on step with knee bent), but your way just hits the spot perfectly without overloading the knee.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2017, 06:07:52 pm
If it's really bad it might take some time to fix. But in my experience the best way is long extended static stretches of around 2 minutes. Elevate the front half of one foot slightly (like on a book or something) and lunge forward until you feel a good stretch, and hold. If you have had a lot of ankle injuries you probably have scar tissue built up in there and it might take some time to work the range of motion back in.

Sounds like what I did with my soleus/ankle stretches during dishes, hah. I'd just ease into it and often hold it for a few minutes, while doing dishes. Definitely seemed to help quite a bit. Tried to find the photo I took, can't find it yet. For people with calf tightness/ankle mobility issues, it could be a decent strategy.

I forgot to mention it when you first posted that one, but it's a fantastic stretch. I've done similar variations (ball of foot on wall, stretch on step with knee bent), but your way just hits the spot perfectly without overloading the knee.

hah nice!!!

awesome man, glad it works for you. :highfive:
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on April 18, 2018, 11:12:36 pm
https://www.posturalrestoration.com/the-science/basic-concepts-of-the-postural-restoration-institute (https://www.posturalrestoration.com/the-science/basic-concepts-of-the-postural-restoration-institute)

Something interesting I stumbled on while listening to one of Joel Smith's podcasts. Ive suspected that posture and breathing have significant relationship. This is some pretty innovative shit.

summary from a PT who took the course:
Quote
Postural Respiration is a course that is basically designed to show you the importance of a functional diaphragm and what happens with different kinetic chains in the body when you lose function of the diaphragm. (such an understatement)  There are different patterns that almost all peoples bodies will fall victim to in their life time, and PRI shows you  how to diagnose which pattern your body has chosen to take. They also provide treatment and exercise program to reverse the pattern.

from the PRI wwebsite"
Quote
dominant overuse of one side of the body can develop from other system unilateral overuse. For example, if the left smaller diaphragm is not held accountable for respiration as the right is, the body can become twisted. The right diaphragm is always in a better position for respiration, because of the liver’s structural support of the right larger diaphragm leaflet. Therefore, the left abdominals are always important to use during reciprocal function, such as walking, to keep the torso balanced.

Keeping the right chest opened during breathing is also challenging since there is no heart muscle inside the right side of the chest.

Quote
When these normal imbalances are not regulated by reciprocal function during walking, breathing or turning, a strong pattern emerges creating structural weaknesses, instabilities, and musculo-skeletal pain syndromes. Balancing muscle activity around the sacrum (pelvis), the sternum (thorax) and the sphenoid (middle of the head) through a PRI approach best positions multiple systems of the human body for appropriate integrated asymmetrical function.
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: FP on June 23, 2018, 05:13:00 pm
have been seeing significant posture improvements, which i believe have come from throwing y-t-w's, reverse flys, and face pulls into my workouts every few days. i have not had to do a whole lot of actually trying to sit up straighter. the biggest improvement is when i am playing on the field, after doing some athletic movements my shoulders naturally just begin to drift back into good upper body posture. my neck still needs work though
Title: Re: posture issues and athletic performance
Post by: LBSS on June 24, 2018, 03:50:29 am
have been seeing significant posture improvements, which i believe have come from throwing y-t-w's, reverse flys, and face pulls into my workouts every few days. i have not had to do a whole lot of actually trying to sit up straighter. the biggest improvement is when i am playing on the field, after doing some athletic movements my shoulders naturally just begin to drift back into good upper body posture. my neck still needs work though

 :headbang: