Author Topic: Unilaterals Make You Weaker  (Read 15619 times)

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Raptor

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2010, 07:16:39 am »
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If you ask me, I never understood bilateral stuff for dynamics... it just feels natural to jump off one leg because you walk and move unilaterally. A one leg jump is just an exaggerated "step". When you walk you don't bounce on two legs like birds.

mattyg35

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2010, 08:44:05 am »
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wow i always thought the knee caving in = internal rotation of the femur which happen be because of tilted pelvis (which could suggests weak glutes and abs), or weak just glutes/hams....corrected by hip extension exercises focusing on keepping the knees in line with the hips/ankles, coupled with glute activation

Now imagine when both of these 'abnormalities' are present.

steven-miller

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2010, 08:56:16 am »
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what is your 5RM lunge/5RM squat, for example, when you trained that way?

for example, when I was doing 225 lb barbell walking lunges for singles, the max was probably around 235, and my half squat was 315 x 1, at 165.. the walking lunge singles were extremely intense.

I did a variation of the forward lunge, where I make a step forward and drop into the lunge position and then do an explosive concentric with the forward leg to get into the starting position directly. I did those recently with 225 lbs for 3 sets of 10 reps (alternating legs) after my squats, 3 rm must have been between 402 and 408 lbs for the squat on this day (unusual training time). That was my third lunge session, so it might not have been a true 5 rm in the sense that coordination can still improve and I started out rather conservatively (198 lbs for mentioned reps/sets two training days before). But they were hard enough to get a sense of the trunk activation and IMO it does not compare to a heavy set of 5 in the squat.

why wouldn't you use unilaterals for beginners? or did i misunderstand.

and is this for performance, or just strength athletes?

During a squat for example, the outer quad(vastus lateralis) is recruited more than the inner quad(VMO). This will eventually lead to an imbalance, which if ignored can result in the knee 'caving in' b/c of the lack of strength of the VMO which may lead to injury. This is also why the VMO is heavily rehabbed in ACL injuries, to prevent further injury and 'caving in' of the knee. This is coming from experience.


wow i always thought the knee caving in = internal rotation of the femur which happen be because of tilted pelvis (which could suggests weak glutes and abs), or weak just glutes/hams....corrected by hip extension exercises focusing on keepping the knees in line with the hips/ankles, coupled with glute activation

My knees came in during the squat a lot at the beginning. I fixed this by taking weight off the bar, correcting the mistake and work up from there. I got a lot stronger and did not have this problem anymore. No unilaterals needed. Whatever is the cause for this problem (Mark Rippetoe argues that it is actually week adductors), it went away by performing bilateral work correctly.

Everything else really has already been addressed.

steven-miller

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2010, 09:31:07 am »
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steven-miller, do you have any idea how high you jump off your right leg vs left leg?

Nearly missed that one.... I actually have no idea but I don't think that I would do very well, partially because I haven't needed the movement so far and probably never will in my sport - unless I decide to switch to track and field ^^.

djoe

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2010, 11:36:43 am »
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wow i always thought the knee caving in = internal rotation of the femur which happen be because of tilted pelvis (which could suggests weak glutes and abs), or weak just glutes/hams....corrected by hip extension exercises focusing on keepping the knees in line with the hips/ankles, coupled with glute activation

Now imagine when both of these 'abnormalities' are present.

my point was: VMO strength doesnt have much to do with the knee caving in. it's more a matter of femur rotation, or ankle pronation...and afaik VMO doesnt affect any of those
re-evaluate, daniel-san, re-evaluate

TheSituation

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2010, 01:51:45 pm »
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If you ask me, I never understood bilateral stuff for dynamics... it just feels natural to jump off one leg because you walk and move unilaterally. A one leg jump is just an exaggerated "step". When you walk you don't bounce on two legs like birds.

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Raptor

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2010, 01:56:17 pm »
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You better believe I am. I never could understand, at least in my body&skin, how in the world I'd choose to jump off two feet if I was trying to get as high as I could. Unless it's a standing jump for a rebound or something, a one-leg jump is so much more superior.

adarqui

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2010, 06:09:41 pm »
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During a squat for example, the outer quad(vastus lateralis) is recruited more than the inner quad(VMO). This will eventually lead to an imbalance, which if ignored can result in the knee 'caving in' b/c of the lack of strength of the VMO which may lead to injury. This is also why the VMO is heavily rehabbed in ACL injuries, to prevent further injury and 'caving in' of the knee. This is coming from experience.


wow i always thought the knee caving in = internal rotation of the femur which happen be because of tilted pelvis (which could suggests weak glutes and abs), or weak just glutes/hams....corrected by hip extension exercises focusing on keepping the knees in line with the hips/ankles, coupled with glute activation

usually glute med not firing, you see that in overly addicted bilateral strength athletes.. ie squat/leg press addicted.

vmo can become alot weaker than VL, unilaterals/sprinting/jumping really help to keep it firing properly.

djoe

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2010, 07:10:14 pm »
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yea, but its always debatable weather its just a firing or strength issue..or both...

surprisingly if you do regular hip extension exercises (in which the glute med shouldnt contribute alot), the caving in still dissappears.
re-evaluate, daniel-san, re-evaluate

Raptor

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #39 on: November 22, 2010, 10:58:42 am »
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When I first started doing low bar squats, the first thing I have witnessed was GREAT vastus medialis recruitment. That only happened in that first session and never happened again. I have no idea what this means.

adarqui

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2010, 01:20:09 pm »
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When I first started doing low bar squats, the first thing I have witnessed was GREAT vastus medialis recruitment. That only happened in that first session and never happened again. I have no idea what this means.

quads are strong, vmo is probably adapted.. doubt it's a firing issue.. the quads usually aren't the weak link in a parallel/below parallel squat so, you're not going to get vmo/quad soreness much at all as you progress, they will pretty much always be one step ahead of the hams/glutes.

pc

Raptor

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2010, 01:56:11 pm »
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Well they might, but why only in the 1st ever session and NEVER EVER after? Maybe just because I laid off some time away from any strength train, so soreness will be regardless the "first time" in quite a while you squat again. But whatever, the VMO was so much stimulated... while the vastus lateralis barely had any soreness.

tychver

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2010, 05:31:33 pm »
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Well they might, but why only in the 1st ever session and NEVER EVER after? Maybe just because I laid off some time away from any strength train, so soreness will be regardless the "first time" in quite a while you squat again. But whatever, the VMO was so much stimulated... while the vastus lateralis barely had any soreness.

Because you're more stable in the movement and they're not having to work as hard...

Raptor

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2010, 05:55:55 pm »
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? What doesn't have to work as harder? The lateralis?

adarqui

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Re: Unilaterals Make You Weaker
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2010, 03:33:28 am »
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? What doesn't have to work as harder? The lateralis?

vmo doesn't.. tychver is probably saying, patella-femoral stability isn't as important with bilateral squatting, so, vmo being the main patella stabilizer, doesn't have to work as hard.

pc