Author Topic: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?  (Read 3236 times)

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slowkidtryingtogetfast

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Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« on: October 30, 2013, 12:25:05 am »
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This might sound crazy but I'm thinking of doing vertical jump work 5 days a week. My running vertical is 29 inches and standing is 26 inches and can grab rim now. I was currently doing Jump Manual and it does work very well but i had a question that was bugging me.
My plan was to do
heavy leg work on mondays (squat, deadlift, lunges, calf raises, etc)  :ibsquatting:
a short session of plyometrics on tuesday (depth jumps, sprints, box jumps),  :ibjumping:
Wednesday (light jump rope)
Thursday-Plyometrics (same thing as tuesday)
Friday-Heavy Leg Work (squat, deadlift, lunges, calf raises, etc)


I would do this for three weeks adn take a deload week. I would be getting proper sleep and be eating alot. I am only 16 going on 17 soon (november 19th) so I think id be able to handle it, I know it is probably "overtraining" but my capcity for workload is a little higher than average. The only problem I see with this is the risk of injury and the same gains as doing it 2 days a week.

What do you guys think about this? Do you think I would see good results if I did this for 3 weeks?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."
Aristotle

I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.
Michael Jordan

If you arent willing to give 100% do not give anything at all
Myself

Bench:105 max
Deadlift: 155 max
Squat: never squatted before
Pushups: 16 with perfect form
Chinups: 5
Pullups: 2
100 m dash: 15.2
200 m dash: 33.4 (not sure about the .4)

http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/slowkid's-progress-journal/

slowkidtryingtogetfast

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 12:26:01 am »
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By the way....the stats in my signature are very old...just to clear up any possible confusion
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."
Aristotle

I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.
Michael Jordan

If you arent willing to give 100% do not give anything at all
Myself

Bench:105 max
Deadlift: 155 max
Squat: never squatted before
Pushups: 16 with perfect form
Chinups: 5
Pullups: 2
100 m dash: 15.2
200 m dash: 33.4 (not sure about the .4)

http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/slowkid's-progress-journal/

Mutumbo000

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 02:51:36 am »
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Seems fine to me.
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

Raptor

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2013, 05:42:43 am »
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So after you totally hammer the legs with strength training you plan to go on the next day and do intensive plyos? Good luck.

acole14

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2013, 07:14:42 am »
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The volume isn't too high, it's just the structure as Raptor said. You want to be fresh for your plyos, have a day of rest beforehand. Also, I like to split up lower body into a posterior chain day (i.e. deadlifts, calves) and a quad day, but that's just a personal preference.

LBSS

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2013, 10:19:30 am »
+3
if you're going to jump every day and do heavy strength work twice a week, don't do separate intense plyos. for the time being you'll get more out of just practicing jumping. this is the lesson of my journal. practicing jumping has to supersede everything else if you're not naturally a gifted jumper, which you and i are not. you could do something like this:

monday: jumps x 20-40, explosive work (e.g., med ball or shot throws, max effort standing verticals, jump squats)
tuesday: jumps x 20-30, weights (squat focus, p-chain rep work, upper push/pull, core)
wednesday:
thursday: jumps x 20-40, explosive work (e.g., med ball or shot throws, max effort standing verticals, jump squats)
friday: jumps x 20-30, weights (p-chain focus, squat rep work, upper push/pull, core)

squat focus could be 3 x 5, adding weight as often as you can -- even if your stats are out of date that's pretty weak so you've got nowhere to go but up. p-chain rep work can be RDLs, hip thrusts, GHR/natural GHR, hypers or reverse hypers. pick two of those and do 3 sets of 10 each. p-chain focus could be dead lift 3 x 5, again adding weight as often as you can. squat rep work can be like 5 x 10. YOU MUST HAVE PROPER FORM, WITHOUT PROPER FORM YOU MUST NOT DO THE LIFT.

if i were 16 and know what i know now, and had the infinite time and recovery ability of 16-year-olds the world over, this is what i'd do. replace the ultimate with a sport or sports of your choice. bit of pickup basketball and jumps at the rim here and there:

sunday: ultimate frisbee or variant (goaltimate, short field, indoor, etc.) x a couple of hours
monday: track speed work + throwing around and easy drills + extensive tempo
tuesday: track short speed work + weights + throwing around and easy drills
wednesday: ultimate frisbee practice
thursday: track speed work + throwing around and easy drills + extensive tempo
friday: throwing around
saturday: weights + ultimate frisbee or variant (goaltimate, short field, indoor, etc.) x a couple of hours

you're a teenager, you're fucking invincible and your body is literally on steroids right now. take advantage while you can.

you are almost exactly 10 years younger than i am (i'll be 27 the day after you turn 17). excuse me, i'm going to go throw up in a trash can and then weep over my wasted youth.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2013, 10:54:12 am by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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LBSS

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2013, 04:29:58 pm »
+2
that post is making me fantasize about quitting my job and finding something more flexible to pay the bills.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

handstand + backflip + flag

LoopieMclooperson

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 10:45:10 am »
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you're a teenager, you're fucking invincible and your body is literally on steroids right now. take advantage while you can.


This statement could not be more true.

I Totally agree with LBSS.
5'10"- 160lbs - 38 yrs - reach - 7'6" (90") - 27" SVJ - 30" RVJ - 275# Full squat
Progress Tracker - http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/loopie's-log/msg24864/#msg24864

slowkidtryingtogetfast

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 06:29:17 pm »
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thanks a lot for the replies everybody....i will follow your advice LBSS and do that routine. Will Start a Journal again and record results.

Current Stats:
165 lbs 5'9
29 inch vertical
300 lb deadlift
10 strict form pullups
135 lb FULL Squat (Ass to Grass)
40 strict form pushups
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."
Aristotle

I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.
Michael Jordan

If you arent willing to give 100% do not give anything at all
Myself

Bench:105 max
Deadlift: 155 max
Squat: never squatted before
Pushups: 16 with perfect form
Chinups: 5
Pullups: 2
100 m dash: 15.2
200 m dash: 33.4 (not sure about the .4)

http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/slowkid's-progress-journal/

TKXII

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 05:16:56 pm »
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you're a teenager, you're fucking invincible and your body is literally on steroids right now. take advantage while you can.


This statement could not be more true.

I Totally agree with LBSS.

Yes this is true.

The program you have should be fine, but I would like to raise a serious issue regarding practicing jumping in lieu of training jumping.

LBSS's recommendation here cautions against your training to include entirely plyometric workouts without any jumping.
The question here is if practicing jumping can actually be your plyometric workout, and substitute for those jumping exercises.

My answer is yes, and no, depending on a couple of things:

Absolutely without a doubt yes: if your jumping form needs work, AND if you have not been training consistently for more than any arbitrary number of months that indicates your inexperience with this training... say more than 6 months, 3 months maybe.

Here, practicing jumping will do two things, it will help you to execute the jump properly, applying forces efficiently, and make it hella smooth, while preventing you from getting too slow from the heavy squats. Next, it will be proving a training stimulus, to improve everything needed about the muscles, bones, tendons, needed to jump like an animal.

Yes sorta: if you're just a beginner, but also know how to jump.

Not really: If you've tried jumping already to improve your vertical and haven't seen much gains (or have plateaued quickly), if you jump regularly or play basketball or other sport that involves running vertical jump or single legged vertical jumps, and you're clearly deficient in strength.

So should you jump as much as LBSS recommends? It probably won't hurt, but if you already know how to jump well, practicing running vertical jumps simply will not be enough of a training stimulus to improve it, unless you overload the jumps, by taking more steps (5 steps instead of 3) to increase the speed of the runup or wear a weighted vest, but still there are better exercises you can do, like bounding, and single legged depth jumps which overload the stiffness of the leg, and elasticity and stuff like that better than just jumping.

The exercises that provide more overload should ideally be ones that you cannot perform with as much volume as regular jumps.. so if you can practice 20 jumps in a row without seeing a decrement in your jump height, it's not a good training stimulus. If you can only do 10 depth jumps off of one leg without noticing a decrement in your jump height, it's going to provide a greater training stimulus.

With bounding for example I noticed after a while I have to add more speed for there to be a stimulus, otherwise I can bound for literally 100m without feeling any fatigue in my legs (alternate bounding from a standing start). When I reach this point, I've also plateaued most likely (haven't truly tested this) in my ability to improve running vertical by just jumping. At this point, my legs are just bouncing along the ground easily, with minimal effort, like a bouncy ball or something that has great elasticity. That factor needs to be overloaded, with more intense shock training.

"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 05:44:08 pm »
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And to comment on the idea that you can improve your vertical jump 10 inches in say 8 weeks...those particular numbers might not be likely, but 8 inches in 8 weeks is possible - the upperlimit imo is 1 inch per week. The problem is maintaining these results so that you can get say 20 inches in 20 weeks. That's what I've found not to happen to me in real life for a variety of reasons. After about 8 weeks it's difficult to maintain that upper limit.

Kelly Baggett's flying in four program aimed to improve vert 4 inches in 4 weeks. It works if you're consistent. If you're trying to train single legged jumping, running vert off of two, and standing vert, it gets complicated. That's been a big problem for me. Now i'm sprinting + jumping, which means I don't spend much time jumping at all. So i'm more in maintenance mode without admitting it to myself, and I don't have the neural drive or energy to attempt max jumping while sprinting and lifting as much as I do (not that much but enough). 

It's been nearly 5.5 years I'd say since I started training and I still haven't reached my goal (40'' running vertical off of one and two), which I very well know I CAN. I've gained maybe 6-10 consistent inches total on running vert (b/w 28/30 - 34/38inches), and maybe 4 on standing, but it's fluctuated depending on how much jumping I do. There are also mental blocks in my head, when I go to the rim I don't automatically expect to be able to get my whole hand over it (which puts me at a 37-38'' vert), mainly because I never do it often enough, mainly because I don't have the aggressive drive to do so.

I got very close to dunking off of one foot by just bounding and doing deadlifts in high school, at around 17-18yrs of age (22.5yrs old now). I was no where close off of two legs however. Then I decided to train two legged jumping since that was my weakness.

In my first two months of training, I gained 8 inches, in 8 weeks, or an entire hand's length, so maybe 7.5 inches. All I used was a deadlift machine in the gym (not even real deadlifts, but it's most similar to a trap bar deadlift), and I did 3x3 each time pretty much. No jumping at all. my SVJ skyrocketed, it was awesome. THen I decided I didn't want to get too "strong" since my lifts had gone up to 360lbs on that machine, so I stopped strength training and did more jumping again, and decided to do running vert and ditched standing.

The point is, be as consistent as possible, perhaps even narrow minded in your training.

Writing all this has been a nice reminder. Because every year I told myself, I'm dunking this winter . . . this spring . . . by August . . . and it hasn't happened, even though I have gotten my hand entirely ABOVE a 10ft rim on multiple occasions. It's mostly mental I'm sure, fatigue + just not enough self-motivation, and life getting in the way.

I also strongly believed I could reach my goal in a month's time, gain 2-4 inches in say 1 month. But over the years fatigue from school had me forget that aggressive drive. I still think if I focus on it entirely, I'll add 2 inches in the next 4 weeks. But with all the sprinting I'm doing, and focusing on strength, the vague idea I had in my head was, training this way will improve vert without jumping. I think it's mainly the lack of energy that has me stop being consistent.

it did a little, but jumping more often should have been and should be now my primary focus. I want to jump at least 2x a week, but I don't have the neural drive too, and I don't want to fatigue myself for my lifts, so I don't . . . see the cycle here?

"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

aiir

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2013, 02:33:47 pm »
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I think you would gain so so so so so much verts if you double that squat of yours, with proper form. ATG is cool but maybe as of now do just slightly below parallel. And 300lb deadlift with a 135lb squat? Whoa...I forget but isn't that a crazy ratio for ham:quad? My below parallel squat is 295 and deadlift like 310
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 02:36:27 pm by StuckInTheAir »
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slowkidtryingtogetfast

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Re: Vertical Jump Work 5 days a week?
« Reply #12 on: November 05, 2013, 10:45:04 pm »
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Yeah I have heard a lot of people just say do slight below parallel but I have seen a lot of people with crazy verts that do full squats. I am naturally built for deadlifts with long arms and have been doing them for a lot longer....i pulled 365 for 5 reps pretty easy on those deadlift machines but doing on the bar is a whole different story.

BTW I am on day 2 of this Training Regimen and it is pretty crazy....extremely hard to be explosive when your legs are shot but i was able to get some good jumps in.
I got the idea from Jordan Kilganon who dunked everyday for hours and it obviously worked. Here is the interview with him

http://www.just-fly-sports.com/interview-with-jordan-kilganon/
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."
Aristotle

I can accept failure, everyone fails at something. But I can't accept not trying.
Michael Jordan

If you arent willing to give 100% do not give anything at all
Myself

Bench:105 max
Deadlift: 155 max
Squat: never squatted before
Pushups: 16 with perfect form
Chinups: 5
Pullups: 2
100 m dash: 15.2
200 m dash: 33.4 (not sure about the .4)

http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/slowkid's-progress-journal/