Author Topic: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense  (Read 19367 times)

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TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2011, 06:03:01 pm »
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Did that one dude just say you get fat from not eating? How does your body make the fat?

Your metabolism slowing down is the biggest myth in dieting. If it slowed down because you don't eat a lot, why wouldn't it speed up when you ate too much?

Calories In-Calories out. That's the only factor in terms of weight gain/loss (sure, for muscle gains and fat loss it's more complicated than that, but you cannot gain weight if you burn more calories than you put it, and you can't lose weight if you eat more than you burn).
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 06:06:30 pm by JC »
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Daballa100

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2011, 07:44:43 pm »
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People get fat in the long term from low calorie diets once exposed to food. These people probably have crushed metabolisms and may experience the same phenomenon once exposed to unlimited amounts of food. People with unhealthy metabolisms do not gain massive amounts of fat if exposed to unlimited amounts of food. This is what all the overfeeding studies have shown

Jimmy Moore of livin la vida low carb is a great example. Lost like hundred pounds form low carb dieting, gained 60 back after 2 years.

Bodybuilders are another great example. [http://scottabel.blogspot.com/2011/04/self-destructive-nature-of-willpower.html]http://scottabel.blogspot.com/2011/04/self-destructive-nature-of-willpower.html[/http://scottabel.blogspot.com/2011/04/self-destructive-nature-of-willpower.html]



Some science: http://www.cswd.org/docs/ltdietstudy.html




You're over complicating things.  Weight loss and maintenance of weight loss is a matter of motivation vs discipline.  Motivation = a short fiery emotion that makes you want to do something.  Discipline = ability to stick to something, and not chicken out. Americans satisfy themselves everyday ASAP, so how do you expect them to maintain a diet if they can't avoid satisfying themselves.  If you have discipline you will keep the weight off, if you don't, you don't deserve to keep the weight off.

I don't get the metabolism stuff.  Of course you will gain weight if you start eating more food than normal.  I think it's common sense. People aren't fit in America because they're undisciplined, and stupid.

That's just what I think.

are you insinuating that most Americans are dumb and/or out of shape?



kind of  ;D.  I gotta make it clear first I am American though.  I don't know how to prove it on a forum, but oh well.  If you took randomly picked Americans off the street and asked them questions about nutrition, and tested their "fitness" a large portion would probably fail.  I'm not saying most would fail, but probably a large percentage.





lulz, dont talk shit about Americans faggot, we dominate you.

Dude, calm down.  You can be asian and live in America.  I'm not attacking anybody.

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2011, 11:33:37 pm »
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It is very complicated. Simple people in the fitness industry believe in the simplicity of exercise more eat less. What I'm arguing is that it's terrible advice, which it is, since it fails to produce long term health or long term weight loss, simplest reason being stress. Discipline is irrelevant, it's about where to direct that discipline. Try getting people to lose weight with this bullshit then get back to me

Edit: There are plenty of people with discipline who get fat because they over-rationalize what to eat instead of listening to their body. Bodybuiders, and low carb dieters are the best example. Perhaps take a look at the links I sent, or remain stupid like the Americans you accuse of being.

so how can people then lose weight?

I have no idea how to multi quote, but I will also address the guy on page 2, who said "did that one dude just say you can get fat from not eating?" or something along those lines.

Yes. Cortisol can RELOCATE fat into the abdominal area. It can take stored glucose reserves, or burn muscle to make glucose, and store that as fat, in the midsection.

http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article%20folder/stresscortisol.html

I've seen it happen to myself.

Gary Taubes mentioned people on true starvation diets looking emaciated, but fat. Stop eating for 50 days, will you have a 6 pack? Only if you're black. (slight joke there). Clearly in the starvation picture on page 1 of this thread they're not fat looking. It really depends on your genetics, some people will look a little fat in the lower abdomen.

Ok so how do you keep weight off in the long term.

Well this is the advice i'd give to people. Eat clean, and eat till you're satisfied, but it must be automatic and subconscious (haha). Clean = complex carbs, not much bread, no refined starches, organic fruit veggies, humanely raised meats/eggs, raw dairy, and maybe some supplements, and cycle the diet.

Now I never said you wouldn't burn fat eating less and exercising more, I said you wouldn't in the LONG term. The reason  most people fail on low calorie diets in the long term is because when they overfeed, they stuff themselves with fat and sugar, which is the best way to store a lot of fat and gain weight and become insulin resistant. if people overfed only on carbs, or say 70-80%, they could slowly restore their metabolism while keeping the fat off. So yes it can work, but chances are you'll splurge on really bad things, despite how much willpower you think you have, cuz your body is smarter than you.

Yin and yang, need to be balanced, everyone knows this. You can call it homeostasis if you will. A low carb diet/fasting/eating less/exercising are all yang. Carbohydrates and sugar, sleeping, loungin, are yin. Having both is great. Take cheat meals for instance, they are restoring the metabolism, and preventing the shut down that occurs from long term low cal dieting, and restoring yin. But they're not necessary if you listen to your body and learn to just eat a lot when the body asks for it, and not think about food naturally when occupied.

Puttin an emphasis on carbohydrates can be a good idea for athletes. A really great way to overtrain is going on a low carb diet while exercising. Great way to kill your HPA axis. Not eating too much fat with the carbs is also a good idea. When you're nice and carb loaded, and have restored a lot of yin, expend it, and just eat fats, or fast intermittently. So it's al about balance. Anything and everything can work as long as it is not depleting the body. Exercisin more and eating less are depleting and unsustainable


 
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2011, 11:42:19 pm »
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Did that one dude just say you get fat from not eating? How does your body make the fat?

Your metabolism slowing down is the biggest myth in dieting. If it slowed down because you don't eat a lot, why wouldn't it speed up when you ate too much?

Calories In-Calories out. That's the only factor in terms of weight gain/loss (sure, for muscle gains and fat loss it's more complicated than that, but you cannot gain weight if you burn more calories than you put it, and you can't lose weight if you eat more than you burn).

Hormones are a lot more important. You cannot gain weight if calories in less than calories out, but you can gain FAT in the wrong places, visceral fat especially.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

DamienZ

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2011, 04:19:39 am »
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You disqualified yourself by mentioning Gary Taubes!

goodbye!

steven-miller

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2011, 08:25:28 am »
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You disqualified yourself by mentioning Gary Taubes!

goodbye!

I don't know a lot about nutritional things. But I had thought about buying his book someday out of interest for the topic. You seem to think it is a bad resource. Can you tell me why and maybe offer an alternative to get into this topic?

DamienZ

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2011, 10:53:30 am »
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You disqualified yourself by mentioning Gary Taubes!

goodbye!

I don't know a lot about nutritional things. But I had thought about buying his book someday out of interest for the topic. You seem to think it is a bad resource. Can you tell me why and maybe offer an alternative to get into this topic?

Taubes is a cherrypicker and said bullshit like "you can't get fat on a low carb diet, not even on 8000kcal if you eat pure fat and protein". He's one of those INSULINZ IZ DA EV1L people :wowthatwasnutswtf:

You can't go wrong with these:
a guide to flexible dieting
applied sports nutrition for mixed sports

and basically every article (on nutrition) on http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/articles - you can get all the information you need out of these articles :highfive:

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2011, 12:12:07 pm »
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DamienZ, you like to keep it simple.

Good point you brought  up: discrediting someone because of something they referenced or said.

It's like throwing out a dozen eggs if one is cracked. It's like thinking somebody has nothing useful to say because they believe in God. It's just a fallacy in logic. Even if a registered dietician says, saturated fat is bad for you. I did not discredit myself at all, in fact there is no such thing as discreditation from a philosophical standpoint. I don't discredit people when they say things I don't agree with because i know it will narrow my perspective. And you seem to have a pretty narrow perspective yourself citing only lyle mcdonald.

You must review the overfeeding studies I mentioned, not Gary Taubes, since the discussion was not on him. If you wanted my opinion on his book, well that's another topic. I did not have to mention gary taubes, I could have mentioned that most people don't gain substantial amounts of weight from just eating too much.  I guess I mentioned him beacuse he's a famous researcher, but I really don't agree completely with his ideas on doing low carb. And yes I already said you can get fat from a low carbohydrate diet, which is not what he said.

Lyle's website is great and I occasionally read it, but it's not focused much on overall health, it's more mainstream in the sense it caterns toward people trying to look good for vain reasons.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

DamienZ

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2011, 12:42:22 pm »
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Gary Taubes is a researcher? c'mon...

Btw, you're arguing about psychological stuff and not physiological - most people that lost weight will gain at least some weight back, but this has to do with them being to stupid to realize that when you dieted and then go back to eating like before you will just become as fat as before.

TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2011, 03:02:10 pm »
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Did that one dude just say you get fat from not eating? How does your body make the fat?

Your metabolism slowing down is the biggest myth in dieting. If it slowed down because you don't eat a lot, why wouldn't it speed up when you ate too much?

Calories In-Calories out. That's the only factor in terms of weight gain/loss (sure, for muscle gains and fat loss it's more complicated than that, but you cannot gain weight if you burn more calories than you put it, and you can't lose weight if you eat more than you burn).

Hormones are a lot more important. You cannot gain weight if calories in less than calories out, but you can gain FAT in the wrong places, visceral fat especially.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM</a>

Let's see a picture of you shirtless (no homo), and compare it to me. I bulk with 5000 calories and have cut with big deficits (sometimes keto). Let's see who looks better. Eating "until you're satisfied" is why most of America is overweight. Your body might burn muscle for energy, but it will never burn muscle to store it as fat. That doesn't make any sense. It burns the muscle because it needs the energy now.


3000 calories of fat and sugar doesn't make you weigh more than 3000 calories of protein (not taking thermal effects into effect).

You're retarded so I'm not going to respond to anything else you said. The fact that you think fat and sugar makes you fat, and not the excess calories, shows you have no idea what you're talking about.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2011, 03:05:52 pm by JC »
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.

DamienZ

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2011, 03:24:10 pm »
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Did that one dude just say you get fat from not eating? How does your body make the fat?

Your metabolism slowing down is the biggest myth in dieting. If it slowed down because you don't eat a lot, why wouldn't it speed up when you ate too much?

Calories In-Calories out. That's the only factor in terms of weight gain/loss (sure, for muscle gains and fat loss it's more complicated than that, but you cannot gain weight if you burn more calories than you put it, and you can't lose weight if you eat more than you burn).

Hormones are a lot more important. You cannot gain weight if calories in less than calories out, but you can gain FAT in the wrong places, visceral fat especially.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpuRcmPnSTM</a>

Let's see a picture of you shirtless (no homo), and compare it to me. I bulk with 5000 calories and have cut with big deficits (sometimes keto). Let's see who looks better. Eating "until you're satisfied" is why most of America is overweight. Your body might burn muscle for energy, but it will never burn muscle to store it as fat. That doesn't make any sense. It burns the muscle because it needs the energy now.


3000 calories of fat and sugar doesn't make you weigh more than 3000 calories of protein (not taking thermal effects into effect).

You're retarded so I'm not going to respond to anything else you said. The fact that you think fat and sugar makes you fat, and not the excess calories, shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

This!

Clarence

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2011, 10:08:12 pm »
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Steven, Taubes has a few books.  I haven't read his newest one and don't plan to...but his previous book, Good Calories Bad Calories, is really good.  It's not necessarily the most reader friendly, but it serves it's purpose very well.  If you're interested in general health I am happy to recommend it.

If you're looking for sport performance or body composition look elsewhere. 

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2011, 11:22:22 pm »
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Haha. I won't respond either after this, even tho eating till satisfaction has gotten me to look the best I ever have, I'm at a healthy 9% bf I'd say, cutting never worked for my chubby indian self back in the day. Bulking and cutting is a retarded concept of broscience. I build strength and muscle while shredding fat like people who have never read a book on fitness and just follow instincts.

Pretty much every poster here is what I call an "emotional thinker." Emotional thinkers don't think actually, so it's a paradox, they react, and need to use stupid youtube videos, pictures, and gay emoticons to show their homosexual feelings, in preference to well formulated prose. Their responses usually use words like "retarded" or other degrading things because they aren't' intelligent enough to reply with a strategic response.

 The rational thinker, asks WHY, and separates his emotions from his views, and most importantly, is not attached to his views. All of you are attached to your beliefs in life. If I were to insult them, you would be offended like a faggot. In fact, a great test of what type of thinker you are is happening right now. If you are offended by my words, you're an emotional bitch and failed the test. In science, this attachment to ideas and your own research hinders progress by precluding the asking of WHY. Your own experience is good JC, but it's not a thorough examination of what works, so it's fucking useless information.

I also don't care how anybody looks, internal health is far more important, information on that is not as highly sought obviously since this culture is so hedonistic and looks for short term fixes. Plenty of people "look good" but are in shitty health, like most skinny bitches on ellipticals. Higher fat mass is linked to better mortality (there is always a U curve). A real test of health by the way, would be a stress tolerance test. The more stress tolerant you are, the better your antioxidant capacity, and the greater your longevity. There are probably other things, but that's the best I can think of right now. And most of you have a low tolerance since you are emotional thinkers. If I have more stress tolerance than you, my body will dominate yours period.

Lastly, on sugar and fat, it may not make you WEIGH more than an equivalent amount of protein in calories, but we're talking about fat distribution, a far more relevant measure. Americans aren't fat because they eat till satisfaction, rather it's the sugar + PUFAs in all processed foods, + follwing your instincts. People lose weight from eating clean and not exercising and eating to satisfaction all the fucking time.

 Low fat diets have helped reverse diabetes, and so have low carb. Both prevent sugar from being in the bloodstream for too long. The sugar releases insulin, insulin can store the fat as fat, as well as the excess sugar. That's pretty simple actually so I have no idea how you thought I was retarded for saying that. Oh yes I do, because you're an emotional little pussy who'd get knocked in a real fight because he's too caught up in his emoticons. Peace!
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2011, 01:19:21 am »
-1
Lastly, on sugar and fat, it may not make you WEIGH more than an equivalent amount of protein in calories, but we're talking about fat distribution, a far more relevant measure. Americans aren't fat because they eat till satisfaction, rather it's the sugar + PUFAs in all processed foods, + follwing your instincts. People lose weight from eating clean and not exercising and eating to satisfaction all the fucking time.

 Low fat diets have helped reverse diabetes, and so have low carb. Both prevent sugar from being in the bloodstream for too long. The sugar releases insulin, insulin can store the fat as fat, as well as the excess sugar. That's pretty simple actually so I have no idea how you thought I was retarded for saying that. Oh yes I do, because you're an emotional little pussy who'd get knocked in a real fight because he's too caught up in his emoticons. Peace!

I said I wouldn't respond but I have to. Post a picture of yourself Mr. 9% bodyfat.

Americans WEIGH more than people from other countries. Since you agreed that fat and sugar doesn't make you weigh more, you cannot say Americans WEIGH more because they eat fat/sugar/processed food. Americans WEIGH more because they eat too much.

How do low fat diets prevent sugar from being in the bloodstream? Fat is the one macro that doesn't convert to glucose (for the most part), unlike protein and carbs.

The "bro science" here is that you think processed food makes you fat, which has been proven false over and over again.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html

Explain that one faggot. And I'm not sure  where this real fight stuff is coming from. Calm down faggot. You're the one who won't post a picture of yourself on here.
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.

Clarence

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2011, 02:54:19 am »
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It's a shame this thread disintegrated so quickly without any substantial debate.  It had potential to be interesting.