Author Topic: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense  (Read 19575 times)

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Clarence

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2011, 03:01:57 am »
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That would assume that all research results are in harmony.  Unfortunately, that's not the case.  Not to mention vast amounts of research that suffer from poor research design and/or interpretation that get accepted as fact.  The inherent biases by the researchers, the questions they pose, and how they interpret the results confounds the issue further.  Unfortunately, things are not as black and white as they may appear.


If things are still open for opinion/debate, you cannot say people poorly understand something. If someone was to poorly understand something, that is implying there is one right answer.

I'm sorry, but I'm not seeing your logic here.  What are you trying to say?  That there are no gaps in our knowledge? Or that there is only one right answer?

There is only one right answer

Alright, then let's assume that's true.  

Do you believe that there is some research that conflicts other research?  Do you believe that there is some research that the results are inconclusive? Do you believe that there is research that is presented as fact despite having flawed designs or interpretations?  Do you believe there is some research that fails to demonstrate the desired outcome of the funding group, thus is never published?  Do you believe there is research that is passed as fact but has not been able to be reproduced with further studies?

If your answer to any of the above questions is yes, then clearly we do not know it all yet and there is room for some debate as we do not know with 100% certainty what exactly the 'only one right answer' is.

If we assume it's true, there cannot be research that conflicts other research.

I for one think everything I said is true, and that there is no debate. Show me research that shows the contrary, which I don't think you can, and then we can agree that the topic can be debated, even though there is only one right answer, so it's not really a debate, as one guy is right and one guy is wrong, or both are wrong.



Now, if we look at the definition of debate as a noun/

noun
1.
a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.


Debating on something factual cannot happen. That is like saying there can be a debate between someone who says the sky is blue, and another guy who says the sky is yellow.


So by that logic...if there is any research that has come to conflicting results your whole premise is blown out of the water.

TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2011, 04:15:30 am »
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What I'm saying is your situation is impossible. If something is correct, there cannot be accurate research against it.
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




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Clarence

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2011, 04:42:21 am »
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What I'm saying is your situation is impossible. If something is correct, there cannot be accurate research against it.

So it's possible for there to be conflicting evidence, but one is incorrect and the other is correct?

Raptor

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2011, 05:09:36 am »
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I don't quite understand what this argument is all about? Just that calories in vs calories out determine your WEIGHT or that they also determine bodyfat %? Because if that's the culprit, then that obviously depends on other factors such as hormones (insulin etc) as well.

Even in regard to calories, the termic effect (thermogenic if I'm not mistaken) of the food is important as well, as the body will actually burn more calories for a certain type of food than for another type to digest it, so that's important as well.

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2011, 11:01:43 am »
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Here are examples of where in nutrition/fitness things can be correct and incorrect at the same time.

Sugar is fattening: can be true, can be false
It's all about calories: seems true, but other evidence falsifies
Low insulin helps you burn fat - true and false, insulin barely matters other times
Slow cardio for fat loss - true and false
Weight training is all you need to do for cardio - true and false


This pic is from this morning. I'm not insanely ripped, and I've been leaner, but I don't even try or think about calories ever, I eat until my body tells me to stop. Don't directly work out the side there either.


I don't work out my triceps, or masturbate excessively so I don't know why it's bigger than my right tricep



Got another pic of the side. I think I'll cut for a week, and take more pics because this is fun. I know I can get leaner, my strategy would be only fruit post workout after cardio, then low carb at night. Some IF. Speaking of which, IF is another way to lose fatwhile eating morethan you burn.





Tricep fat is a hormonal thing if you didn't know. Healthier your testosetrone levels are, the less fat you'll have there.

« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 11:26:07 am by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2011, 02:30:33 pm »
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You masturbate using your triceps? Damn, that's something else!

DamienZ

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2011, 02:32:17 pm »
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so you have 9% bodyfat? :ninja:

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #52 on: July 13, 2011, 03:18:55 pm »
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so you have 9% bodyfat? :ninja:

I'm not sure what my exact measure is. I have some stubborn fat in the lower abs, and it's definitely my genetics, high cortisol/stress type. But just judging by pictures, I'd say 9%, maybe 10. Probably not 8. Looks are not the best measure but it's the best I can do for now. I don't know what that emoticon means.

Body fat percentage pics: http://forums.johnstonefitness.com/showthread.php?t=31392
I see people whom I have better abs than who are at 9%.


Yes I am quite certain that I masturbate with my triceps, biceps, the entire deltoid, forearms, probably every muscle fiber in my arm.

Edit: actually searching around for other pictures, I think I could be between 9-12%. I'm only 155.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 03:41:08 pm by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #53 on: July 13, 2011, 04:46:08 pm »
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Yes I am quite certain that I masturbate with my triceps, biceps, the entire deltoid, forearms, probably every muscle fiber in my arm.

I kind of use my brachioradialis more. That explains my lack of triceps development. Damn, I need to do a better job at recruiting my triceps.

TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #54 on: July 13, 2011, 05:27:13 pm »
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What I'm saying is your situation is impossible. If something is correct, there cannot be accurate research against it.

So it's possible for there to be conflicting evidence, but one is incorrect and the other is correct?

Well, you would have to look into in more, and see how/why there was conflicting evidence.

and lol at 9% bodyfat. And yea, people who aren't fat and lift weights don't really need to watch their calories. The original article was about people who are already fat.
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.

Clarence

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2011, 06:48:29 pm »
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What I'm saying is your situation is impossible. If something is correct, there cannot be accurate research against it.

So it's possible for there to be conflicting evidence, but one is incorrect and the other is correct?

Well, you would have to look into in more, and see how/why there was conflicting evidence.


I absolutely agree with you.  That is why I think it's possible to have a discussion about the evidence that exists...which is really the only point I was trying to make.

Quote
I don't work out my triceps, or masturbate excessively so I don't know why it's bigger than my right tricep
LMAO.... Avishek, how do you know when you've reached the  'excessively' threshold?

Raptor

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #56 on: July 13, 2011, 06:50:47 pm »
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I don't work out my triceps, or masturbate excessively so I don't know why it's bigger than my right tricep
LMAO.... Avishek, how do you know when you've reached the  'excessively' threshold?

What I actually like is that he said he doesn't know why it's bigger than his right triceps, thus implying he masturbates with his left hand. Good to know!

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2011, 07:21:51 pm »
-1
Well I have not fully analyzed or cared to analyze why my left tricep is way bigger. My right delts are also way bigger than left, and I used to always masturbate with right but then I switched to even it out but didn't work. I think it's my gait too I swing my left arm more.


And now that I think about it, masturbation is almost a full body exercise, kind of like training for vertical jump, isolating does not work. Yeah I definitely contract glutes, abdominals, and even abductorslike crazy and frequently employ the valsalva maneuver, my last lady friend I banged always notified me when I stopped breathing, I don't even realize I stop breathing. It's so intense! But I don't use my brachioradialis at all actually, and i have no mass there so I'm starting to just do regular bicep lifts for that.

Excessive masturbation means you have to work really hard to come, which is probably result of addiction, it really depends on your current libido, diet and how horny you are. When I do jack off, which I try to do sparingly, as much as possible (associated with more chi and vitality from the Taoists point of view as long as you retain your seed for proper amounts, for young folk in the early 20s this means 2-3x a week max, maybe only 2), so that I barely have to try in order to really come.

In all seriousness, masturbating too hard is not good for sex. You want to be relaxed in true lovemaking and go slowly so you can last longer.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2011, 07:33:38 pm »
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And I just thought of one last thing to say in terms of this debate, let's turn to logic:

If a statement is true, the contrapositive must be true, but the inverse and converse do not need to be.
More on that here: http://www.jimloy.com/logic/converse.htm

Statement: If you have a negative calorie balance, you lose weight
Converse: If you are losing weight, you have a negative calorie balance
Inverse: If you don't have a negative calorie balance, you are not losing weight
Contrapositive: If you didn't lose weight, you did not have a negative calorie balance.

The first statement is correct probably 95% of the time. THere are caveats though which we discussed. Once you go into starvatino mode, you are screwed, once exposed to food. Metabolically your body is trying to store fat. I think it is possible to get fat eating few calories if you're stressed out enough.

Converse: This can certainly be true, but it can be false. Look up the raw food diet weight loss. I also provided a link to one blog talking about a high carb low protein diet that resulted in weight loss.

Inverse: again both false and true, if the converse is true, the inverse is true, but they both have exceptions.

Contrapositive: Not necessarily true once again.


I used to be at like 20+% as a kid eating a lot of oily indian food. I ate a high protein diet, with a lot of carbs, so I definitely did not activate AMP kinase, and also had a very stressful childhood.

I think cutting can work for most people, but others have high stress hormones in their system already all the time so it doesn't work in the long term. Sugars can alleviate stress hormones, and its been shown that a high carb low protein diet can result in fat/weight loss. Note I'm not against cutting completely, I'm against telling somebody to just eat less and exercise more because it will fail in the long term. Americans are eating foods that activate the wrong metabolic signals. Metabolism certainly si not a combustion reaction, so looking at everything in terms of calories isn't specific
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TheSituation

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Re: Weight loss for people with excuses and without common sense
« Reply #59 on: July 14, 2011, 01:01:52 am »
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And I just thought of one last thing to say in terms of this debate, let's turn to logic:

If a statement is true, the contrapositive must be true, but the inverse and converse do not need to be.
More on that here: http://www.jimloy.com/logic/converse.htm

Statement: If you have a negative calorie balance, you lose weight
Converse: If you are losing weight, you have a negative calorie balance
Inverse: If you don't have a negative calorie balance, you are not losing weight
Contrapositive: If you didn't lose weight, you did not have a negative calorie balance.



I assume none of those statements are taking water/glycogen into consideration
I don't lift for girls, I lift for guys on the internet



[7:31pm] adarq: ripp, being honest, it's hard for u to beat jcsbck, he's on fire lately
[7:31pm] adarq: he's just
[7:31pm] adarq: wrecking people
[7:31pm] adarq: daily




Say NO to Maroko

And also NO to anyone who associates with him. No Taylor Allan. No Adam Scammenauger. No Kelly Baggett. No Elliot Hulse. No Jtrinsey. NO JUMP USA


Don't PM me asking me training questions. I'm here for the lulz. If you want help, post on the forums and get help from all the members, maybe even me.