Author Topic: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016  (Read 55067 times)

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ghettoracer

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #390 on: June 21, 2016, 06:12:09 am »
0
i'm not a die hard GSW fan.  i'm a fan of beautiful basketball.  it just so happens that GSW is in my home town back in california.  if another team plays a similar style i would become a fan of them as well.  that kerr interview just gave me all sorts of wrong vibes...  he was talking about $$ way too much.  even if GSW and won game 7 in no way would i be celebrating.  i still think the series was fucked with and hate how it went.

me a racist?!  not even sure where that comes from.  this is basketball we're talking here, where does race come to play at all?
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
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maxent

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #391 on: June 21, 2016, 06:41:04 am »
+4


omg.......

i cant even touch the square and this dude jus did dis in the dying minutes of the last game of the playoffs ......
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LBSS

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #392 on: June 21, 2016, 09:32:12 am »
+3
~36", in the run of play, through traffic, at the end of the game...insane.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #393 on: June 21, 2016, 10:05:46 am »
+2
me a racist?!  not even sure where that comes from.  this is basketball we're talking here, where does race come to play at all?

Lol.  We are talking about basketball.  Where does race come into play?  EVERYWHERE.  Just cause you don't notice racism doesn't mean you can't be a part of it.  We at talking about a sport that captivates the American public, a sport largely played by black players with white owners.   The racial dynamic is huge. 

But just for the record I'm not accusing you of being overtly racist.  But you parroted many of the arguments racists make about Lebron James.  Maybe you really are clueless about the racial dynamics involved - if that's the case it's incumbent on you to realize that they do exist and how when you say or repeat something you hear that you think is objectively true but has racist undertones - some may think you are racist.   But again not accusing you of this.  Not in the least.  Just reminding you that the level of vitriol and personal attacks you leveled at LBJ (especially unfounded stuff like about you know he doesn't love and respect the game) are the same attacks that you can get to by being racist...

Additionally your irrational argument that the NBA is fixed suggests that you really have an irrational way of looking at things...  And as racism is irrational... Just putting two and two together man.  You accused the NBA of fixing the games with Kerr in on it even though there were 6 blowouts (which can't really be fixed with a few foul calls) and game 7 literally came down to a fall away Kyrie Irving 3 pointer, a Klay Thompson 3 that rattled in and out, and a Lebron chase down block...

Think about that.  Your argument is that the NBA took a huge huge risk to have Kerr in on it to fix games.   Kerr could turn whistleblower and destroy the league.   But they took the risk anyway.  Then they "fixed" the outcome of the game... I don't think Klay is good enough to purposefully miss a three and have it go in and out...  I don't think the NBA could be sure Lebron wouldn't be a split second late and goaltend and I certainly don't believe they staked their "fixing" on Kyrie making that shot... So they "fixed" the outcome that ended in a bunch of plays that didn't guarentee their result with any certainty at all...  Does that really make sense to you?   

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #394 on: June 21, 2016, 10:15:52 am »
+3
~36", in the run of play, through traffic, at the end of the game...insane.

Yup.... When Adarq and I were comparing vertical jumps and I listed my best jumps it really reminded me what you see when you train these top NBA guys.  I can hit ~44 on my max running LR plant...  I know one of Russel Westbrooks trainers and his max jump is sub 40". 

But.... His single leg left leg, single leg right, LR plant, RL plant, jumpstop plant, etc.  are all 36-39".  This is the true mark of a basketball jumper vs an athlete or show dunker...  The NBA guys just play far too grueling of a sport to have or even try to demonstrate ridiculously high max jumps... But god they can fly to heights of just under that in the most diverse ways at the drop of a hat... The way Lebron knifed through the guys, found his way back and blocked that shot... That's such true sports specific athleticism that it sucks that it gets lost of the causal fan who watches and says "gosh he can jump high." 

Sure.  It's kinda high.  But a lot of us can jump higher...  But sure can't do it in those circumstances... Put me there and I probably trip trying to navigate my way back into the play... Or if I somehow repeat his steps and I'm in place my max jump at that pace and step pattern is probably about 12".  Of course I could always get my steps times perfect and jump much higher (assuming I'm Lebrons height) and bang on the backboard damn near the top of it... Which would be much more impressive from a jumping standpoint, although the layup would have already gone in and the finals would likely have been lost...

I'm glad the haters (most) are retiring the LBJ can't win in CLE lines... But after plays like this can we end the LBJ is just a big strong bully?  That play is graceful athleticism like you have never seen before...

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #395 on: June 21, 2016, 10:25:54 am »
+1
Also... I just remembered that I meant to say this in a post and forgot...

Did any of you watch the game?  The last few minutes when it was 89-89?  Remember the layup that Lebron missed he was clearly clearly fouled on his wrist?  If I had more time I would pull up the video...  I watched game w fans of both teams.  Everyone agreed it was a missed call...

That's ok though.  Not evidence of anything.  Well evidence that it's not scripted to have the Cavs win because they wouldn't miss it then...  But it was a somewhat big no call... But those things happen.  If you know the game you know that when you drive and get fouled AND blocked and there is a loud hand slapping ball sound that drowns out any hand slapping arm sound fouls are often missed.  Refs use their eyes and ears, hand slapping ball sound tells the ears it's not a foul...

That's life.  The game was not called perfectly.  It was called fairly though.  Big difference. 

undoubtable

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #396 on: June 21, 2016, 10:52:07 am »
+3
I've been thinking about the LBJ goat argument the past few days and it's definitely an interesting one. I think I would rate him higher on an all time best athletes/ competitors all across sports than best basketball players list. This is more personal opinion but when I think of goat for a particular sport I always think of technical mastery as one of the athletes' biggest assets. Just players that wow with with amazing skill levels that no one else can match.

Curry will be more memorable to me as a basketball player than Lebron, Messi over Ronaldo, Federer over Nadal, etc... But if I had to pick one player to lead a franchise or play in a game 7 I would pick Lebron just bc of his presence and competitiveness. I also think he's the right level of alpha, where he's balanced enough to inspire teammates like he did with Kyrie but also knows his self worth and steps up when he has to (although some make the argument he doesn't do it enough). But I'd rather that sort of player if I was starting a franchise over a Kobe for example. I just figure Lebron is someone other players would love to play with.

Also, Lebron is awesome to watch bc you can learn something to carry on to any other sport. You can watch him and say that's the right level of confidence you want and the right level of intelligence. I think he's mentally leagues ahead of most other players and to note, Curry, which made the difference to close out that series. Kind of just scrappy ideas here but mainly my views on Lebron as one of the top athletes/ competitors of all time maybe even on top of where he is as a basketball player if that makes any sense. I think because Jordan ranks so high on both lists is why he's up there as one of the greatest ever to play any sport.
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LBSS

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #397 on: June 21, 2016, 11:22:51 am »
+1
interesting point about curry being more memorable. he's sui generis, for sure. then again, so is lebron: no one else has ever been able to do chasedown blocks the way he can.

someone the other day was trying to argue that lebron is a me-first player. i could not believe my ears. he led the finals in assists - 9 per game! please.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #398 on: June 21, 2016, 11:37:50 am »
+1
I've been thinking about the LBJ goat argument the past few days and it's definitely an interesting one. I think I would rate him higher on an all time best athletes/ competitors all across sports than best basketball players list. This is more personal opinion but when I think of goat for a particular sport I always think of technical mastery as one of the athletes' biggest assets. Just players that wow with with amazing skill levels that no one else can match.

Curry will be more memorable to me as a basketball player than Lebron, Messi over Ronaldo, Federer over Nadal, etc... But if I had to pick one player to lead a franchise or play in a game 7 I would pick Lebron just bc of his presence and competitiveness. I also think he's the right level of alpha, where he's balanced enough to inspire teammates like he did with Kyrie but also knows his self worth and steps up when he has to (although some make the argument he doesn't do it enough). But I'd rather that sort of player if I was starting a franchise over a Kobe for example. I just figure Lebron is someone other players would love to play with.

Also, Lebron is awesome to watch bc you can learn something to carry on to any other sport. You can watch him and say that's the right level of confidence you want and the right level of intelligence. I think he's mentally leagues ahead of most other players and to note, Curry, which made the difference to close out that series. Kind of just scrappy ideas here but mainly my views on Lebron as one of the top athletes/ competitors of all time maybe even on top of where he is as a basketball player if that makes any sense. I think because Jordan ranks so high on both lists is why he's up there as one of the greatest ever to play any sport.

Great points.  This is why I think singular GOAT arguments are silly.  I think arguably greatest is the best you can be in a sport like basketball AND I think LBJ JUST got there with this win.  I don't think he was there before.  Personally I don't think Kobe is there.  I think really it's Magic, Jordan, and LBJ.  That's about it.  I mean what LBJ  did going back to a terrible team late in his career and taking them to two finals and winning in two years as the complete leader and statistical dominator of the finals.  Jordan couldn't have done that.  Nobody could except Lebron.  That is why he is one of the GOATs because of this.  Do I think LBJ could have done what Jordan did with the double three peat in chicago and complete dominance.  No.  That's why MJ is one of the GOATs.   Sometimes there are multiple people that can do amazing things that nobody else can do.  We can't claim one is better in this case... It's sort of as simple as the case in sports like boxing where styles make the following true.  A beats B.  B beats C.  C beat A.  NOBODY else beats A B or C.   So A, B and C are the GOATs.  Leave it at that...

The thing about basketball is it isn't really a contest where there is one amazing thing you can do.  In the 100m you can only run fast.  Usain Bolt is the GOAT of the 100m.  Ashton Eaton is the GOAT of the decathlon.  Who is the GOAT between them.  You can't say.  Both are doing INCREDIBLE but different things.  This makes sense to us because they have different events.  But basketball is complicated.  Essentially Jordan is the goat of scoring clutch baskets and killing his opponent with physical 1-v-1 defense.  I liken Jordan to Usain Bolt while Lebron is essentially a decathlete.   Different events in the same sport... Both great.

I think sometimes we forget basketball is a team game and that's why Jordan will always be thought of as better than Lebron.  I think we even see this just in MVP decisions.  I agreed with the Steve Nash MVPS.   Best and most important player on best team.  Deserving.  Might get completely dominated by a bigger athletic point guard though - so much so that they hide on defense on someone else...  Not a good look for the MVP to get dominated by someone else - but it's just life. 

Curry is a better defender than Nash ever was but I had the same thought in the WCF.  Curry is MVP.  MVP!  Best in the league.  And Russell Westbrook just sneered when Curry would guard him.  RW sneered and his eyes got big and you could see him basically laughing at the thought of Curry on him as he just destroyed him.   RW absolutely destroys Curry in a head to head who can guard who matchup.   Doesn't mean Curry isnt the MVP, just that he has a weakness somewhere in the game that fans value - the head to head defensive matchup.   If we needed the MVP to be physically more dominant than his defender then someone like Shaq should have always been MVP.  But there is more to the game than just the one-on-one me vs. you part of the game.   Unfortunately this is one part we all remember (I'm guilty of it too).  This is why LBJ will probably never be thought of as better than Jordan:

15 seconds left.  Tie game.  Iso (or maybe pick and roll) play where the ball is inbounded to a player and he starts by dribbling some time off the clock.  You want to have Jordan in that situation or you want Lebron?   Jordan by a mile.  (TBH you might prefer Kyrie have the ball than Lebron).  Jordan probably over anyone else...  Well, actually if your down by 3....  Curry over Jordan by a mile.   But still... Never Lebron.  That's just not what Lebron is good at...  Not good enough at creating a unblockable, unfoulable shot that he is confident in.   Maybe because he doesn't have a killer instinct - but maybe because he is realistic and knows his turnaround shake free step back 17 footer just isn't as accurate as Jordans ever was...  That's fair.  Maybe he would be better if he was more confident, maybe not.  It is his lack of confidence that has led to him making passes that result in turnovers in this situation where Jordan would at worst give you a missed shot which is far less bad from a result standpoint...

BUT... Would Jordan have chased down Iguodala for the block like Lebron so the game would still be tied when Kyrie made the three?  Almost surely not.  But... We don't remember that.  We remember tie-game who is gonna step up and change it.  And LBJ is still not the best in the NBA at that and isn't close to being on of the best of all time in that situation...  He doesn't have the confidence or accuracy to rise up and shoot an unguardable, unblockable shot, and when he drives and get's semi-fouled he is too big and strong to always get minor calls and get to the line like Dwayne Wade did against the Mavericks.  He does get fouled almost every time but they are fouls he semi-initiates and they are calls nobody can really expect to get all the time...   

Unfortunately, LBJs weakness is highly visible.  However, it's not longer a HUGE weakness where he hides in 4th quarters like against Mavs.  Now he plays within himself (great off ball cuts - scores when it makes sense, etc) but still does not have that demand ball get buckets ability we loved about Jordan...   Jordan had weakness relative to Lebron too... Jordan could never rebound like that, or inspire teammates or pass the same, or momentarily guard a center...  But we forgive those...  If Jordan had to switch on Shaq and got abused we say "bad team defense Jordan got stuck on shaq for a bit which isn't fair".   But sometimes that happens.  It is a weakness.  If it happens to Lebron he might get the block on Shaq and throw it down for a fastbreak to his teammates...  He does get credit for this.  But those who can't do it don't get blame...  We have to be cognizant of this when we say LBJ will never be MJ.  It's true as long as we don't forget MJ could never have been LBJ!   

ChrisM

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #399 on: June 21, 2016, 12:20:05 pm »
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Only have a few minutes but...you all forget Wilt. :)
Insert motivational quote here...

LBSS

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #400 on: June 21, 2016, 01:09:38 pm »
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one for the stat-geeks: lebron is the all-time leader in VORP.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #401 on: June 21, 2016, 03:56:01 pm »
+2
Only have a few minutes but...you all forget Wilt. :)

I didn't forget Wilt, I just never saw him. I was born in the mid eighties... To be fair I can't really say I remember Magic either. 

I respect Wilt and Russell and I saw some grainy black and white of Russell that display ridiculous athleticism...

But the game changes... And watching Cousy dribble the ball and some of the plays I have seen I am not able to compare it what I have watched... I mean people talk about the tougher defense of the 90s but when you talk about 60s and 70s...  I mean those guys would get picked every time they dribbled... To be fair current players would probably have a carry called on them everytime they dribbled... Just not the same game... You can only be judged relative to your competition BUT imo you can be normalized by the size of the pool of competition... So respect for Wilt and Russell but I'm not old enough to really remember much and be able to interpret their game for this comparison... To be honest for me it's starts with MJ and there have been three people who have ascended so high that comparisons are fair...

Shaq, Kobe, Lebron (maybe curry soon). Shaq was more physically dominant and had potential to dominate a game with far higher percentage shots than Jordan... But he never put some things together (like free throws) and since he had to get the ball passed in to him couldn't have the same impact... Also he fell short because he was arguably worse than Hakeem who played his position.   Kobe unfortunately only did one thing better than Jordan (the three) and did everything else worse.  Doing things worse than Jordan isn't necessarily bad because Kobe was still great but just clearly worse than Jordan because of his similarity...  LBJ is the most compelling because he falls far short in many ways but is head and shoulders above in others...  Curry would perhaps be even more interesting... I actually think the loss was good for him but I hope he doesn't get bashed too much especially if the MCL injury was an issue because it's lose lose for him in that case... If he comes back even better with his ridiculous shooting he can tear up th NBA like Jordan never did for years to come and give barbershops around the country things to talk about...

I'm actually fascinated by the dynamic we have now between Lebron and Curry...  Obvious Jordan is our standard for greatness...

So many say Lebron is no Jordan cause he can't close a game or take over like him.  He can't score when called upon in the clutch anywhere near what Jordan can do and those people are correct when they say that... Of course never mind that he does a million other things better than Jordan - pass, rebound, defend bigger guys...

Curry on the other hand can take over offensively and when he is hot and healthy he shown that he may be able to do it FAR better than Jordan.  Remember the OKC game***? The three pointer changes things.   A few behind the dribbles and jab steps and curry can launch deep threes with the best of them... I mean who would you rather have down 10 with 4 minutes left?  Curry or Jordan... Gotta go with Curry... Of course Jordan fans will point to Jordan's non scoring advantages to place him above curry...

***man remembering that game reminds me of what Andrew said about the emotional toll that was inflicted on the Warriors from their quest to win 73.  I really agree with it... I mean the Warriors played so many tight pressure filled regular season games while the Cavs basically coasted... We gotta give credit to what is no restored as the greatest season of all time (95-96 bulls) who not only won 72 games but did it while coasting completely...  You have to believe if the wins record had been 74 wins and that team wanted to beat it they would have...

ghettoracer

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #402 on: June 22, 2016, 12:44:20 am »
0
me a racist?!  not even sure where that comes from.  this is basketball we're talking here, where does race come to play at all?

Lol.  We are talking about basketball.  Where does race come into play?  EVERYWHERE.  Just cause you don't notice racism doesn't mean you can't be a part of it.  We at talking about a sport that captivates the American public, a sport largely played by black players with white owners.   The racial dynamic is huge. 

But just for the record I'm not accusing you of being overtly racist.  But you parroted many of the arguments racists make about Lebron James.  Maybe you really are clueless about the racial dynamics involved - if that's the case it's incumbent on you to realize that they do exist and how when you say or repeat something you hear that you think is objectively true but has racist undertones - some may think you are racist.   But again not accusing you of this.  Not in the least.  Just reminding you that the level of vitriol and personal attacks you leveled at LBJ (especially unfounded stuff like about you know he doesn't love and respect the game) are the same attacks that you can get to by being racist...

My character remarks about LBJ have absolutely nothing to do with race.  Since you love LBJ so much, explain how you can justify him saying "I don't travel", and "I don't flop" when there are tons of footages show he does both, a lot.  Is he delusional?  Or is he a liar?  He is one of those and by me calling him either one does not make me a racist.  It's a sign of his character regardless of his color which I have never ever brought up because it doesn't matter to me 1 bit.

Or maybe he really is neither because he is "allowed" by the NBA to do both, so in his mind it's perfectly legal.

Inconsistent reffing is already given in NBA for 2 decades with super star preferential treatment and one can easily argue that is game fixing to some extent.  People hate it but still watch NBA.  Just like people that love WWE love it even though they know it's scripted.  I hate poor reffing but since majority of the games are quite enjoyable to watch I will continue to do so.  The on the fly dynamics of the game is why I love it so much.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 12:53:06 am by ghettoracer »
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8

T0ddday

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #403 on: June 22, 2016, 06:19:22 am »
0

My character remarks about LBJ have absolutely nothing to do with race.  Since you love LBJ so much, explain how you can justify him saying "I don't travel", and "I don't flop" when there are tons of footages show he does both, a lot.  Is he delusional?  Or is he a liar?  He is one of those and by me calling him either one does not make me a racist.  It's a sign of his character regardless of his color which I have never ever brought up because it doesn't matter to me 1 bit.

Or maybe he really is neither because he is "allowed" by the NBA to do both, so in his mind it's perfectly legal.

Sorry, I disagree.  Again I don't know if you are personally racist and that's why I am not accusing you of it.  I am just warning you that making remarks that sound a lot like remarks that are made by racists doesn't come off in the best light to me... As far as your accusations:

I have never heard Lebron say that he never travels or never flops.  I mean he has had traveling called on him so if he has said "I never travel" then I can assume he is making the remark tongue in cheek and I don't think you should take it so seriously.  As far as your two complaints:

1) Traveling.

NBA players travel.  You can go to youtube and watch compilations of all players (not just LBJ) doing ridiculous uncalled travels.  Unfortunately when everything is on video you can often uncover a lot of travels that are not called.  In general travels are not called because at game-speed traveling is really hard to notice especially when it does not provide the player with a competitive advantage.  You have to understand that the NBA employs human referees because IMO they intend the rules to be enforced not just to the letter of the law but also to the spirit of the law.   So when I player on the perimeter shuffles his pivot foot which provides almost zero advantage you won't see it called.  Maybe cause it is hard to see for referees and maybe because they enforce the "spirit of the law" which is to call travel vigilantly only when an advantage is gained.  i have no problem with this.  If any player has the ball on a 1-0 fast break and takes a few extra steps to do a spectacular dunk the fans get to see the dunk and the travel is not called... Sure, maybe a travel occurred.  And if it was called players vigilantly players might do less spectacular dunks  - but that's about it and it's a tradeoff that is worth it.   

When I player travels down the lane or travels out of a triple threat the NBA actually enforces it across the board.  Again, it's hard to disentangle why because the fact that it provides a competitive advantage (eg. you take your 2-3 steps and euro-step your way right to a big man but THEN take another step to avoid him as well) makes it look glaringly obvious!  This is universal - all players have it called on them when it provides an advantage and it's not called when it doesn't. 

2) Flopping.  Again, part of the game whether we like it or not.  Referees don't make calls based on letter of the law - if someone slaps your arm as you pick up your dribble and makes slight contact that has zero effect on you it will often not be called.  Sure it is a foul - but it's not seen nor called.  Unfortunately, to alert the referee of the call you need some gamesmanship - sometimes you need to fall down to get a charge called, you need to hit the deck to make it clear.  All good players do this as it is in their interest to alert the referee of the contact.  This occurs in all sports - and most athletes who understand this don't have a problem with it.  Personally, I don't have a problem with it whether it is basketball players falling down when anticipating contact or soccer players falling to get a penalty called.  Personally, I don't find it tasteful when soccer players hold their knee and scream to fake an injury after a slide tackle - but I do not fault them for falling.  IMO that level of gamesmanship is a bit much - but it is what it is.

As far as Lebron making the comments you claim he makes....  Do you know players that admit to traveling or flopping?  Does Ginobili after a spurs win credit it to his awesome flopping or James Harden brag about all the travels he got away with?  This would be terrible gamesmanship.  Admit after a game that you purposefully flop or travel and you WILL get less calls and you WILL help your team less.   This is gamesmanship and part of the game.

I think it's quite a stretch to judge someone on their gamesmanship and make a character attack.  IMO Draymond Greene crossed far more lines than Lebron during these playoffs.  His two kicks to Steven Adams crotch and his strike on LBJs crotch seemed pretty bush-league to me - but then again it's hard to be sure of intent and even if Green had poor intentions - I still would never attack his character for how he plays an extremely emotional game.  I don't know him personally but everything I have heard is he is a very high character guy off the floor who sometimes get's caught up in rather than feeds off the emotions.

You have said Lebron has no character, doesn't love the game, is extremely lazy (all racist codewords) because of how you observe his basketball playing between the lines of a highly emotional game.  LBJ gets very few calls because of his size and strength if he doesn't fall down - you are asking him to give away a competitive advantage that others enjoy because you think he has low character which is quite ridiculous.  In fact the biggest no call at the end of the game and the hardest foul both involved Lebron.  Lebron was clearly fouled on a layup attempt toward the end of the game where he did not flop or receive a call...  He was also shoved in the chest by Green (I think a bit rough but not flagrant) on his dunk attempt...

Having a problem with Lebrons character but zero problem with Draymond Green is NOT consistent.  It is the type of argument a racist or biased fan makes - it's not logical and you can't pretend it is.  Note that I don't have a problem with DG's character - I reserve character judgements for how someone behaves off the floor when they are not playing an emotionally charged game...

So, to close the book on LBJ - no he isn't delusional or a liar.  He is a basketball player.  Gamesmanship is involved in the sport.  You are not required to tell the truth about your strategy or about whether or not you traveled on a play - to do so would be to give away a competitive advantage.  If Bill Belichick made a promise that his team wouldn't pass hardly at all and then ran a bunch of play action pass plays to trick the opponent - would he be a liar or a good coach using gamesmanship to win? 

Really, the NBA is so tightly policed these days that you really can't make much character judgment from what goes on on the floor.  You won't last long if you completely cross the line from gamesmanship to poor sportsmanship (eg actually hit a player or taunt without letting up)... 

******************************************************

Just to add something about character.  You do realize that by the account of 99.99999% of people you are choosing to cheer for the white person who has done something that is 10000X worse of a character move than any in game play of LBJ.  By your own admission you claim that you think Steve Kerr was paid off to purposefully lose the game.  THIS is a sign of bad character.  FAR worse than anything the players.do.  A coach who fixes games against his own team is actually committing fraud.  Yet you continue to cheer for the warriors despite your belief that Steve Kerr is in on a scam to fix games...  You claim you believe this...  If you do, it doesn't make sense that you hold LBJ in more contempt than Kerr and continue to cheer for his team...  So, I ask you - are you delusional or are you lying? 

ghettoracer

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Re: NBA Playoffs: 2015-2016
« Reply #404 on: June 22, 2016, 12:48:54 pm »
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Just to add something about character.  You do realize that by the account of 99.99999% of people you are choosing to cheer for the white person who has done something that is 10000X worse of a character move than any in game play of LBJ.  By your own admission you claim that you think Steve Kerr was paid off to purposefully lose the game.  THIS is a sign of bad character.  FAR worse than anything the players.do.  A coach who fixes games against his own team is actually committing fraud.  Yet you continue to cheer for the warriors despite your belief that Steve Kerr is in on a scam to fix games...  You claim you believe this...  If you do, it doesn't make sense that you hold LBJ in more contempt than Kerr and continue to cheer for his team...  So, I ask you - are you delusional or are you lying?

umm, naw.  i was just thinking out loud...  i don't believe Kerr threw the game although the conspiracy theorist brain kicked in and tried to linked couple of odds things that i noticed.  which was Kerr talking about how well they get paid over and over in that one post game interview.  then the ultra uncharacteristic extended minutes both Varejao and Ezeli got in game 7.  now, the conspiracy theorist could argue what better way to throw a game subtlely by inserting subpar player into the game?!  it would be very hard to detect and prove.  or maybe Kerr was just out coached?  very strange not to close the game out with the small ball squad that he has trusted.

in the end what is a championship worth?  there is only 1 each year.  so other than bragging rights and a nice trophy is there a lot more?  i looked it up, the prize money between NBA Finals winner and loser is pretty small...  maybe Kerr was just trying to say win or lose we (players and coaches) still make plenty of money and this is just all nice entertainment don't take it so seriously.  it's not the end of the world...  and luckily the championship window for GSW is wide open.  hopefully they will still be top from for few more years.

http://moneynation.com/how-much-money-players-make-win-nba-finals/

Lose NBA Finals   $3,214,636
Win NBA Finals   $4,851,365

you have put many words into my mouth that i did not say.  i haven't said anything about D. Green.  but if you asked me about him, no he is not really my type of player.  i don't understand the kicking although some people showed videos that he does that even without another player near him.  it's a weird habit of his apparently.  i don't like him yelling "and 1" either.  he's a bit too loud for my taste but overall he seems to be the kind of player you love to have on the team and hate when he's on the opposing team...  that's about it.
current stats: age: 42 :: 5'11" (180cm) :: 180lbs (82kg) bf ~30% :: reach: 90" or 7'6" (230cm) :: wing span: 6" (183cm)
12 week goal(current): SQ 115kg(100), DL 130kg(110), BP 80kg(70), reduce weight to 75kg (165 lbs) and bf to ~25%
status: excellent cardio condition, new 5x5 program, 10' rim touch okay, RVJ ~30"
PR RVJ ~34" 10'5" touch @ age ~25 (worst was ~6" below rim when i was @ 190 lbs ~35% body fat ~23" RVJ in 2007-8