Author Topic: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?  (Read 12891 times)

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adarqui

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+2
It sounds impossible to go undefeated in the regular season but i'm just watching them destroy everyone. They are too dominant. I'm watching them play Phoenix right now. It's just a slaughter. GSW has "god mode" cheat code enabled.

CURRY.

T0ddday

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2015, 10:51:01 am »
+1
It sounds impossible to go undefeated in the regular season but i'm just watching them destroy everyone. They are too dominant. I'm watching them play Phoenix right now. It's just a slaughter. GSW has "god mode" cheat code enabled.

CURRY.

LOL.  I'm betting on the field for the next 50 something games.   BUT... I'm with you...  This is ridiculous.  I wouldn't bet on the field for any single game or even any pair of games!   Right now when you watch them their losing seems as much as a puzzling topic as the topic of intelligent life in the universe...  Essentially:

1) There are two possibilities.  We humans are the only intelligent life in this vast and possibly infinite universe!  Totally nuts.  Somewhere else in the universe there exists intelligent life thinking the same thing!  Also totally crazy!   But one of these crazy ideas must be true!

2) The golden state warriors will go undefeated.  Totally nuts.  They will lose!  Hard to imagine!   But one must be true! 


Raptor

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2015, 11:03:09 am »
+1
It depends on too many parameters, and then there's the element of human psychology... every once in a while you just want to take a night off and "take it easy".

I think the Rockets went on a 33-game winning streak a few years ago. That might've been quite a few years ago, actually. It's crazy when you think how fast time flies by.

Merrick

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 02:37:34 pm »
+1
It depends on too many parameters, and then there's the element of human psychology... every once in a while you just want to take a night off and "take it easy".

I think the Rockets went on a 33-game winning streak a few years ago. That might've been quite a few years ago, actually. It's crazy when you think how fast time flies by.

They went on a 22 game or something. 2nd most was miami 2-3 yrs ago with 27 wins.  33 is the record by the lakers from the 70's

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undoubtable

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2015, 05:56:16 pm »
+1
I watched Brooklyn play at Golden State a couple of weeks back and they were really lucky not to lose that one. Klay wasn't playing and Curry was actually off for once. Brook Lopez missed a 3ft tip in to win the game last second of regulation before it went to overtime. I think Brooklyn had only one win at that point too so it was surprising.

I think it'll take that sort of game, Curry off, key player injured, or rusty from back end of a back to back for them to lose. Curry is so redic though with how easy he makes the game come to him. I'm actually really happy he's becoming the face of the NBA bc he can inspire a generation of kids to work on their skills (shooting, dribbling, etc.) He's a lot more enjoyable to watch then say a Lebron who relies a lot on size and athleticism.
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T0ddday

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2015, 11:52:46 am »
+1
What is athleticism?  W the exception of his height lebrons soeed and strength are far more trainable qualities than curries shooting...  if you give me 100 athletes I can train a few of them to have the speed/strength of lebron but I bet none will have the god giving shooting talent that curry does...   I love watching curry but I hope he doesnt inspire an even larger amount of kids to forsake their future because they think they can make it by practicing their slick dribbles and slow release jumpers...

Curry grew up w an nba father lest we forget... he was born in to far more basketball luck than lebron...

ChrisM

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2015, 01:08:44 pm »
+3
Curry is FAR from unathletic. Does he have the most hops? The fastest top speed? The strongest? No on all counts but his ability to change dorection and quickness is very much top notch. Combine that with YEARS of honing an insanely quick release and thousands of hours put into game situation drills his skill set is near the top.

That said...shooting is aort of an inate ability like athleticism but Id venture to say that its easier to take someone and create a shooter than it is to create a monster like LeBron. Kobe said it best...his left leg is basically bionic to move 265+lbs into the air like that.

And...I speak froma tad bitnof experience. I was never a shooter. Always a slasher (until high school) that relied on natural handles and athletic ability. It took me 2 short years tho to go from having an extremely shaky jumper with range to about 15 feet to a guy who can launch NBA range 3s off the dribble over defenders accurately (shot 44% from 3 my last 2 years, up from low 20% range freshman/sophomore years.) Was it hard to reinvent my jumper? Absolutely. But it was easier than the work ive put in to get to where I am today with my speed and vert and i am naturally a more athletic person than i was a shooter for sure.
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undoubtable

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2015, 02:17:15 pm »
+3
I mostly meant to say from an aesthetic standpoint I hope basketball is modeled more after Curryesk players instead of monstars like Lebron. I respect Lebrons heart and leadership but Currys skill set is much more dynamic and fun to watch.

I'd also have to agree with Chris about shooting being easier to teach than athleticism, at least relative to making a difference in a basketball game. It'd justify the fact that teams seem to draft raw athletes with size and work on turning them into basketball players more than they draft great shooters and say ok we'll work on turning this guy into an athlete.

I can think of Kawhi Leonard who the Spurs have turned into a great shooter and all of a sudden he's an MVP candidate when it was said to be one of his weaknesses coming out to the draft. I was looking at his numbers and he's shooting 50% from 3 this year and was a sub 30% shooter in college. He probably won't maintain that rate but even at 40%, that's a huge difference.
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Merrick

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2015, 02:52:42 pm »
+3
What is athleticism?  W the exception of his height lebrons soeed and strength are far more trainable qualities than curries shooting...  if you give me 100 athletes I can train a few of them to have the speed/strength of lebron but I bet none will have the god giving shooting talent that curry does...   I love watching curry but I hope he doesnt inspire an even larger amount of kids to forsake their future because they think they can make it by practicing their slick dribbles and slow release jumpers...

Curry grew up w an nba father lest we forget... he was born in to far more basketball luck than lebron...

lol.. I would argue being born with Lebron's genetics is more "Luck" than being born into an NBA family. 

Regardless, the impact Curry is having on kids is WAY MORE POSITIVE than lebron cmon man...

With Lebron, kids automatically think, "man you gotta be born with that kind of size and athleticism", he's a freak of nature."  You don't see ANY kids thinking "I can be like Lebron"... They just think he's some kind of god

With Curry, kids can relate as he's a normal person's size and unathletic (COMPARED TO HIS NBA COUNTERPARTS) who worked on his skills like crazy.  I guess you don't realize how much work he puts into his skillset.  Sure he was always able to shoot but he didn't have nearly the passing ability or the handles in college.  He worked on it to become one of the best passers in the game and one the best ball handlers OF ALL TIME.  He also changed his jumpshot after his sophomore year in college.


You may be able to turn a few people into Lebron's athletic ability from a RAW perspective, but you don't seem to be able to see Lebron's god given natural basketball abilities.  Lots of NFL and T&F athletes are as athletic as Lebron, but I guarantee you even if they put in the work for basketball, they wouldn't be showing that athelticism on the court the way that Lebron does.  It's not just pure strength and speed in there, basketball is a lot more than that when it comes to athleticism.


Also, I must be reading the 'slow release jumper' part wrong.  You're not indiciating curry has a slow release right? lol i have to be misunderstanding this part


AND, being born into an NBA father doesn't always mean a good thing.  Some of the best athletes are the worst coaches.  I would say that Dell Curry was a good teacher, but the superstars (more creative) are usually horrible at teaching while the role players (more analytic) are better coaches.  An example would be the plethora of NBA coaches who were average at best role players back in their days.  So simply assuming having an NBA dad is a gigantic advantage isn't correct.  Sometimes your average HS coach can teach better than an NBA player.  It's similar to being taught how to jump high by someone from TFB or Air Up There or Kadour Ziani.  They'll tell you some dumb shit.  But yeah, Dell Curry isn't like that, but you can't generalize that.

T0ddday, did you ever play basketball at an organized level?  High Schoool?  I'm genuinely just asking, not trying to be a smartass.  I know you have a T&F background, but any bball?  I get interested in perspectives and mindsets on things from different types of people like a trainers perspective (you) vs an athletes perspective.  I know you're an athlete too, but being a trainer as well still does play a part in how you view things in my opinion
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 03:16:49 pm by Merrick »

Mutumbo000

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2015, 06:19:59 pm »
0
What is athleticism?  W the exception of his height lebrons soeed and strength are far more trainable qualities than curries shooting...  if you give me 100 athletes I can train a few of them to have the speed/strength of lebron but I bet none will have the god giving shooting talent that curry does...   I love watching curry but I hope he doesnt inspire an even larger amount of kids to forsake their future because they think they can make it by practicing their slick dribbles and slow release jumpers...

Curry grew up w an nba father lest we forget... he was born in to far more basketball luck than lebron...

If being 6’8 with the speed, hops, and athleticism of an elite NBA point guard isn’t god given talent than I don’t know what is! Who their parents are is irrelevant- look at Michael Jordan’s sons. Shooting is a talent, but it is a skill, which can be honed and improved far more than athleticism can.

In a hypothetical scenario what would you think would be an easier task if you had 1 year to train 100 people aged between 18-30. Taking 100 guys who are all 5’8-5’11 and getting as many of them to dunk within that time frame, or taking those same 100 guys and getting as many of them to have 80% free throws efficiency?
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T0ddday

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2015, 12:21:09 am »
0

lol.. I would argue being born with Lebron's genetics is more "Luck" than being born into an NBA family. 


Well, I would argue that there are more people in the world with the size and strength of Lebron than born into an NBA family... But it's not really worth arguing about how much something is "luck".   I mean I don't even know how to define luck when I think about it...

Quote
Regardless, the impact Curry is having on kids is WAY MORE POSITIVE than lebron cmon man...

With Lebron, kids automatically think, "man you gotta be born with that kind of size and athleticism", he's a freak of nature."  You don't see ANY kids thinking "I can be like Lebron"... They just think he's some kind of god

With Curry, kids can relate as he's a normal person's size and unathletic (COMPARED TO HIS NBA COUNTERPARTS) who worked on his skills like crazy.  I guess you don't realize how much work he puts into his skillset.  Sure he was always able to shoot but he didn't have nearly the passing ability or the handles in college.  He worked on it to become one of the best passers in the game and one the best ball handlers OF ALL TIME.  He also changed his jumpshot after his sophomore year in college.

Also, I must be reading the 'slow release jumper' part wrong.  You're not indiciating curry has a slow release right? lol i have to be misunderstanding this part

I think you are all missing the point.  You think kids looking at Curry and thinking "I can be like that" is a positive thing.  I agree that his skillset is way more relateable to kids.   It's just that I think that that's a negative thing!  I've worked with a lot of kids in the inner-city and I think that if a kid sees lebron and thinks "Wow he is a good teammate and nice guy but a physical god and I could never be like that so I should take inspiration from his leadership BUT not mortgage my future on hoop dreams and instead focus on going to college and taking academics seriously is a GOOD thing."   I don't think we need to inspire any more kids to try to make a future in professional sports!   

Of course I don't think Curry has a slow release.  But my point is that it's not that easy to tell to someone who doesn't know basketball.  A short, not super athletic 13 year old kid who DOES have a slow-release but is a very accurate shooter may see Curry and think "Hey Im like him and I can be just like that".  Then he might go practice more shooting with his slow-release that will never translate at a higher level instead of doing his homework...  I think this is a bad thing.   However, if a 13 year old kid is 6'7 250 and an absolute freak and starts to prioritize professional sports as a future...  I do not think this is as bad... 


Quote
You may be able to turn a few people into Lebron's athletic ability from a RAW perspective, but you don't seem to be able to see Lebron's god given natural basketball abilities.  Lots of NFL and T&F athletes are as athletic as Lebron, but I guarantee you even if they put in the work for basketball, they wouldn't be showing that athelticism on the court the way that Lebron does.  It's not just pure strength and speed in there, basketball is a lot more than that when it comes to athleticism.

I AGREE 100%.   In the last year I have gotten the chance to train and observe training of a number NBA athletes.  I won't name them specifically but I will say they are all-stars who live in LA and don't play for the Lakers.   The biggest surprise to me and my other T&F background trainers is just how poor athletes some of the NBA guys are...  I promise most of these guys would have trouble breaking 12 seconds in the 100m.  The are decent reactive jumpers but have surprisingly bad verticals and are not very strong...   However, they are absolutely basketball geniuses... I am they are just amazingly good at their craft.  Also, most of them are tall and have weirdly long arms.

The level of skill actually predominates in pretty much all team sports.  Even football.  Football players are on average better athletes than basketball players but athleticism is not what separates them.  I had a teammate play for the Ravens a few years back and he marveled at Ray Lewis and Ed Reid.  He said they were just absolutely amazing when it came to ball skills, jumping routes, awareness, vision, practically everything but athleticism.  The basic take away message was that great athletes were a dime a dozen on defense in NFL, I remember when he called me and said "Man, everyone out here fast.  Everyone out here strong.  But nobody makes the roster cause they are fast."  What separates you from 1st on the depth chart and practice squad is far less athleticism and far more skill.   In fact if anything the practice squad players are better athletes than the NFL starters (because the practice squad guys are kept because of potential that they could develop into great players while the established players care little about the 40 times anymore).


Quote
AND, being born into an NBA father doesn't always mean a good thing.  Some of the best athletes are the worst coaches.  I would say that Dell Curry was a good teacher, but the superstars (more creative) are usually horrible at teaching while the role players (more analytic) are better coaches.  An example would be the plethora of NBA coaches who were average at best role players back in their days.  So simply assuming having an NBA dad is a gigantic advantage isn't correct.  Sometimes your average HS coach can teach better than an NBA player.  It's similar to being taught how to jump high by someone from TFB or Air Up There or Kadour Ziani.  They'll tell you some dumb shit.  But yeah, Dell Curry isn't like that, but you can't generalize that.

I'm not necessarily arguing the Steph benefited from the coaching his dad gave him as much as I am by the environment of being around the NBA was extremely helpful.   There's a lot of video out there that shows a childhood steph curry immersed with NBA players.  Rather than being a 5'7 13 year old shooting over 5'4 13 year olds he was literally going one-on-one and jumping in scrimmages with NBA guys and practicing NBA moves...  That's quite an advantage.   

Quote
T0ddday, did you ever play basketball at an organized level?  High Schoool?  I'm genuinely just asking, not trying to be a smartass.  I know you have a T&F background, but any bball?  I get interested in perspectives and mindsets on things from different types of people like a trainers perspective (you) vs an athletes perspective.  I know you're an athlete too, but being a trainer as well still does play a part in how you view things in my opinion

Actually, I am currently playing on a recreational mens league team.  We got our first win today...  Was 3/5 from the field (mostly layups), 1/5 from three, and 4/9 from the line for 13 pts which is a typical line for me...   Basketball was my first love actually.   I played in the AAU circuit as a kid from age 11-14 and was actually a lanky, weak, pretty ground-bound kid who was an excellent shooter and excellent shooter with a quick release.   I was that kid in games who when the ball was swung to him the coaches screamed "SHOOOTER".   My freshman year I scored 40 points in a JV summer league game mostly from 3's which was unfortunately my best accomplishment in high school basketball..    I didn't develop physically until my junior but when I did I ended up a semi-muscular 180lb kid who could suddenly jump and run.  This was great on the football field but for some reason my game changed so much in basketball that I could no longer shoot and even my handles suffered as everything suddenly seemed to move faster.  I honestly believe that becoming explosive can be a deterrent in basketball... no evidence to back this up but I swear things moved so much smoother before I became an athlete.   Sure some of the lack of shooting could be from the fact that I spend a bit too much time practicing dunks instead of shots... but that can't be it...  Personal problems resulted in a lot of us being kicked off the team and I focused on football and then track and field and didn't really start playing basketball until the track guys got into pickup in college...  Still love the game, but hate the fact that shooting is such a prerequisite to being even decent... 

T0ddday

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2015, 12:28:37 am »
+1

If being 6’8 with the speed, hops, and athleticism of an elite NBA point guard isn’t god given talent than I don’t know what is! Who their parents are is irrelevant- look at Michael Jordan’s sons. Shooting is a talent, but it is a skill, which can be honed and improved far more than athleticism can.

In a hypothetical scenario what would you think would be an easier task if you had 1 year to train 100 people aged between 18-30. Taking 100 guys who are all 5’8-5’11 and getting as many of them to dunk within that time frame, or taking those same 100 guys and getting as many of them to have 80% free throws efficiency?

Lol.  Who your parents are is far from irrelevant!  Genetics and environment are both very important and we choose neither, so it's important to be fair if we are going to make the claim that Lebron is just lucky...   Good point about Michael Jordan but that might be more of an indictment against Michael Jordan as a father than proof that parents don't matter!

I'll bite on your hypothetical scenario.   To be honest I would have to go for the free throws...  But only because free throws are a very simple movement and can be semi-mastered by almost everyone.   Also, because 5'8-5'11 leaves a lot of information out (hand size, arm-length, etc).   I will do one of my favorite things and answer my own question...  If you give me 100 kids with between and ask me to get all of their standing vertical to 34'' (far above NBA average) or get them to shoot catch and shoot or off the dribble threes like an average NBA shooter I would take the vertical jump challenge EVERY time.

ChrisM

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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2015, 12:41:32 am »
+1
THANK YOU TODDDAY! Only because Ive been screaming for years that the average NBA player is quite 'unathletic' vs other sports. :)

Also agree that as you become faster, stronger and more explosive its VERY possible that your bball skill set suffers. I noticed it slighlty and was lucky enough that i adapted quickly when I started lifting, that may be because im a "genetic outlier" in terms of hand eye coordination or whatever OR that i realized it and dedicated time to matching my skill set to my new explosive abilities. Case in point: my handle, which I had previously never worked on, suffered a tad when I started lifting but I recognized it and did some drill/skill work at game speed and now (when Ive been playing regularly) theyre better than they were in hs or college. Im beginning to think the recognition of imbalances in a players skill set to athletic ability is more of a contributing factor to how good they are than anything else. See it, fix it THEN take the next steps be it skill or athleticism wise. Sacrificing one for the other will laways leave you a worse player.
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Re: Will the Golden State Warriors lose in the 2015-2016 regular season?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2015, 01:09:27 am »
+1

If being 6’8 with the speed, hops, and athleticism of an elite NBA point guard isn’t god given talent than I don’t know what is! Who their parents are is irrelevant- look at Michael Jordan’s sons. Shooting is a talent, but it is a skill, which can be honed and improved far more than athleticism can.

In a hypothetical scenario what would you think would be an easier task if you had 1 year to train 100 people aged between 18-30. Taking 100 guys who are all 5’8-5’11 and getting as many of them to dunk within that time frame, or taking those same 100 guys and getting as many of them to have 80% free throws efficiency?

Lol.  Who your parents are is far from irrelevant!  Genetics and environment are both very important and we choose neither, so it's important to be fair if we are going to make the claim that Lebron is just lucky...   Good point about Michael Jordan but that might be more of an indictment against Michael Jordan as a father than proof that parents don't matter!

I'll bite on your hypothetical scenario.   To be honest I would have to go for the free throws...  But only because free throws are a very simple movement and can be semi-mastered by almost everyone.   Also, because 5'8-5'11 leaves a lot of information out (hand size, arm-length, etc).   I will do one of my favorite things and answer my own question...  If you give me 100 kids with between and ask me to get all of their standing vertical to 34'' (far above NBA average) or get them to shoot catch and shoot or off the dribble threes like an average NBA shooter I would take the vertical jump challenge EVERY time.

Genetics are important but my point is that Lebron has better genetics than Curry!!!

I agree with you though in the fact that as long as a player has baseline athleticism & height that skills are far more important than athleticism. That's why you have 40 year old players like Jason Kidd still playing guard in the NBA. The wingspan you mentioned is interesting but taller people tend to have larger wingspans so it makes sense. As for NBA players having average standing verticals and not being great athletes (obviously there are plenty of exceptions) I'd say it's probably because once they've passed the benchmark requirements it makes a lot more sense to focus on improving their jumper than their vert. Plus with the schedule NBA players have from a recovery viewpoint it just doesn't make sense to hammer themselves in the gym when they get much better results hammering themselves on the court.

A 34 inch vertical is pretty impressive. I've dunked at 5'11 and my standing vertical was only 26 inches at the time. My running vert was around 35 inches but I've always been a lot more reactive than explosive. As you said the hand-size/arm length also makes a difference. If I wasn't able to palm the ball I wouldn't be able to dunk.
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