Author Topic: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on  (Read 50552 times)

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adarqui

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #30 on: December 16, 2010, 05:03:11 pm »
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welcome man, glad you're on here to discuss things because youtube/facebook is just a bad medium for convo, IMO.


Just wanted a chance to represent myself...

Nice, Adam Linkenauger, for example, promoted squatflex and will not defend himself, but he's said it is a piece of junk in the past, so he can't really defend himself.


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I know you guys hate Squat Flex, and many of the reasons agree with.

adarq.org officially hates squatflex :)




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However, after trying the equipment AND considering the situation of most of it's users, I still hold that Squat Flex has value.

What is the situation of most of it's users? We've had a discussion about this in private, but my stance still holds true, for the vast majority of squatflex users, it is YOUNG GULLIBLE athletes looking for quick fixes. Squatflex looks "easier" than a barbell, and is promoted as such, that is why there is a flock of young aspiring athletes who flock to jumpusa/squatflex. Jumpusa provides gimmicks, not solid effective training methodologies.

Those who truly lack a gym can make use of plenty of other methods before turning to squatflex, BUT, those who truly lack access to a gym/weights are very rare. Even in the poorest countries, their are gyms with barbells and plates.



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Before you flame me out or cuss me out, at least hear me out.  I don't think I should be shunned for life ;)  Just for my honest opinion of the SF.

We won't flame you, props for coming on here to discuss your opinion.




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If you can convince me otherwise I'll agree with you, but I don't think my point of view is understood here.

When I reviewed Squat Flex I posted a video about the reasons why.. most SF haters didn't watch it.. because they feel they already know the the facts... but...

Here's what I hear Squat Flex haters saying...

1. Most of you disagree with marketing tactics used by Jump USA.
ME - I don't like the over hyped marketing either.. I agree.   And if people we're lying about their testimonials.. that's not cool and I don't like that either.

Jumpusa is a deception machine, this is well known, that in itself ruins all of their credibility. The most glaring case of this is how they got B.A., SLAM, and Oh-no to promote squatflex as if it helped them with their first dunk. That was down right grimey and is just one example of Jumpusa using bullshit to sell it's bullshit. Once integrity is gone, there are no legs to stand on, thus is jumpusa.


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2. Squat Flex is the same as a barbell hack squat.
ME - I disagree with this, and I think the resistance curve is different as well as the eccentric load, etc.. More on this below.

Squatflex will not overload the weakest joint angles, it is impossible. The only way to overload the weakest joint angles, would be to use a set resistance PLUS bands. A set resistance (such as a barbell + plates), could be used to overload the bottom, then bands/chains are used to accomodate the strength curve. You simple cannot overload the bottom in squatflex, if you did, the band tension itself would become too great, as it would rapidly exceed max strength levels on the way up.. Squatflex is like using 5 green's on a 45 lb bar, it makes no sense. What makes sense, is 1-2 greens on a 225 lb bar, for example. This is what Elitefts, the biggest proponent of band/chain training in the industry currently, would tell us.

There has to be SIGNIFICANT tension at the bottom.. Plus squatflex is limited by grip, and that alone weakens a "pure hip driven movement", such as in a barbell squat. I've yet to see a squatflex rep performed that would benefit an athletic movement, every rep i've seen has way too much "back" in the lift.



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3. Squat Flex is overpriced.
ME - i don't know the JUSA's production cost, but price is is subjective.  Personally I think it's a bit high.  But price is subjective AND price is something to be determined individually.  People can make that decision.

Price isn't subjective though, I could make a squatflex for < $30. ;)




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4. It's better to get a gym membership.
ME - The VAST majority of everyone who bought Squat Flex from on my promotion, doesn't have access to great facilities, transportation, or simply prefers to train at home.

There is a word for those people, FOR THE MOST PART, lazy.. Not trying to insult your clientele, but most every single person who complains about gym access or prefers to train at home, is lazy. period. People in piss poor countries walk 10+ miles to the gym to go oly lift, etc. There's gyms in every corner of this earth, seriously. There is video of people in parts of war-torn africa lifting weights and getting diesel.

If you prefer to train at home, fine, get a barbell and weight plates. Here's a major advantage to having a barbell and weight plates, over squatflex:
- front squat
- cleans/snatches
- push press, standing overhead press, floor press
- barbell curl
- barbell row
- landmine twist, landmine press
- windshield wipers
- back squat
- deadlift
- zercher squat
- clean pulls, snatch pulls
- jump squat
- calf raises

etc






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I made this clear in my video... and also clear that heavy band resistance isn't unique to Squat Flex, and if you have convenient regular access to top notch facilities then Squat Flex offers little more benefit then simply an easy at home workout.

5. But a barbell and weights is cheaper.
ME - From my comparison, buying a barbell and weights is MUCH more expensive... and doens't offer any band resistance.  Also, it's not near as convenient.  Many people buy the Squat Flex for convenience alone... them doing the Squat Flex and at home is their most convenient workout.

"convenience" negates ones athlete status.

I bought my 300 lb weight set from sports authority for $150, i don't know if they still have it, but shopping around on the net i'm sure you could find something very similar, this came up on basically the first search:

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=300+lb+weight+set+price&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=869828549811454873&ei=0ocKTZuVOM6s8AbJ9bGfAQ&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CD8Q8wIwAw#

$250 for a 300 lb weight set, with olympic bar.. I know they go for much cheaper than that though, like I said, mine was $150.

The type of person who buys squatflex varies greatly form the type of person who buys a barbell set, no joke. One is looking for quick results, the other is looking to put on some serious strength - all over. It's the same comparison as someone who buys adenotrex vs someone who buys whey protein. People are buying $300 APL's to put on 1-2" on their vert (which doesn't even happen), when they could be getting under a god damn bar for cheaper :)

If you buy a barbell set used, it can be extremely cheap. Cages and half racks go for very cheap also. I got my powertec for $350 online, searched all over until i found it for mad-cheap.

So I ended up spending ~$500 for a powertec rack and a 300 lb barbell set... Compare that SAME price to a $497 squatflex, and I think most anyone would agree that ____________________ hehe




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6. Squat Flex is dangerous:
ME - When taught properly I think it's just as safe or more safe than a Squat.  I know many disagree but failing on a back squat is scary compared to missing a Squat Flex lift.

Taught properly? All i've seen are round backed hack squats? Regardless, any type of training can be dangerous, but squatting is very safe when done with proper form, even if you lack a cage. But to really push yourself on squat you generally need a cage, though oly lifters have no problem squatting without a cage, if you know how to dump a bar it's easy. Squatflex users all have one thing in common, round backed hack squats.. Id rather lift maximally on a squat with good form than roundback a banded hack squat on some silly device..

We can't forget that most ALL people buying squatflex are people who play basketball, and these types of people have long legs, short torsos, for the most part.. this has them put in a very awkward position when using the squatflex, whether they are squatflex-deadlifting or squatflex-hack-squatting, i've yet to see someone perform it with good form using considerable band tension.





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7. There is ONLY one exercise.
ME - I list at least 10 that can be done with the Squat Flex that I think are highly affective.

Can you list those? I watched the vid a few nights ago and don't remember them actually being listed.. I remember you saying there's a bonus that comes with it that shows extra exercises.





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8. It only trains the top portion of the lift.
ME - I think this is inherently the biggest problem with doing pure band weight.

The resistance curve doesn't match the users strength curve in an optimal manner.

However, I think using isometric holds with greater tension at the lower position, dont body weight exercises at home (pistol, banded pistol, bulgarian split squat/jumps/ etc..) supplements the weaknesses here.

Yielding or overcoming isometrics with squatflex could possibly be beneficial, but grip is a limiting factor. I agree that isometric holds/overcoming isos with more band tension to overload the bottom would probably be pretty effective, but for some 14-17 year old high school kid to jump right into high intensity yielding/overcoming isos at the bottom is very dangerous in my opinion. In order to effectively and safely utilize yielding/overcoming isos on a squatflex, at the bottom, using large band tension, you would have to be very experienced and most importantly, KNOW HOW TO BREATHE under considerable tension. If you don't know how to breathe, which would be someone who lacks experience with barbell/resistance training, then you open yourself up to an increased risk of injury, to the lower back, groin, and abdominal areas.

So if you are an experienced lifter, then yes I think yielding/overcoming isos at the bottom could be effective, given that grip strength doesn't limit you, which would probably be the case.




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To simplify - Squat flex + Squat Flex Isometrics + body weight > (is better than) body weight exercises at home.

Again that depends, I agree that squatflex provides overload, but, it's not better for inexperienced athletes to use squatflex, it is in fact, more dangerous. Athletes with very little experience under tension should be performing traditional barbell/dumbell exercises WITHOUT accommodating resistance. A.R. doesn't even come close to being introduced in a beginner's program, it is so risky and unneccesessarryyyy (i hate spelling that word) that it is unfathomable in all honesty.

For experienced athletes, then yes, squatflex can provide some kind of overload which can yield gains in strength and small amounts of hypertrophy, but, barbell lifting would be far more effective than squatflex+squatflex isos in those departments.




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That's why I gave the extra body weight stuff, and additional exercises away with it.  Because I feel it needs them to work well.

Again.. 90% est are doing this at home without any equipment and that's just the facts of it.

---

We went over all this in my videos...

I made the review becuase I had users already who used and liked the Squat Flex, and who were asking me about it.  I had about 100 requests to review or test the machine.  Again almost all of these came from people who were training at home with our body weight exercises.

Is the Squat Flex the best thing ever?

I never claimed that, and just tried to present the facts.

Does the Squat Flex provide people who ONLY train from home a supplemental exercise to build sport specific jumping power?

I still believe it does.

It's actually a fun little home workout, that can place massive tension on the vertical jumping prime movers. IMO

... Most of the arguments against the Squat Flex I end up agreeing with OR they don't hit home.

Many are going to reply saying... BUT! They should just get access to a gym and get some bands for accommodating resistance.  I teach this all the time in our coaching sessions, but it doesn't apply to most people who bought Squat Flex.

I say they should get access to a gym or buy a barbell set, I don't think any beginner should go anywhere near bands unless its shoulder prehab ;)




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Anyways maybe I will get called names, or get shunned for life, but the above is just my opinion.

By all means, I'm open to being wrong here.  But most of the Squat Flex haters didn't watch my videos or used one of the above complaints.

If jumpusa sends me a squatflex for free, I will test it out honestly, no bias, then I will set it on fire & sledge hammer it. Let's do
this ;d

Considering squatflex to improve athleticism is like buying a unicycle to train for the tour de france. Aint happenin`.

peace man

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #31 on: December 16, 2010, 05:13:51 pm »
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That's a good question....

To cheat.. I'd recommend both... (I'll answer straight up below)

Squat Flex you can overload a straight leg dead lift or standard dead lift to 500 + pounds super easily.

You can easily challenge yourself at extremely high  amounts of tension, basically with Squat Flex you can max out...

AND you can reap some of the benefits of band training.  To me that's pretty great.

----- again we're talking about people only training from home   ------

And I think we underestimate just how many of those people there are.... 

In my community alone there are literally thousands and thousands who simply want to train from home, and many of them have a small set of dumbbells.

Even close friends and family of mine, they just will not be "gym goers" for reasons I don't really get... I love the gym, the fraternity, the competition... the social aspect... I can't get enough of it.

But many people including family and friends of mine, just wont' go.. and their not "junkies" like me... but they were very interested in the idea of using the Squat Flex and the convenience aspect of it.

I also find that a great deal of these people are "small apartment" people.  They live in small quarters... they actually tell me this.

... anyways

To me Squat Flex is a great compliment to a small easy set of dumbbells that can be used in single leg work.

To me ...For the demographic it's best for.... and for jumping and maximal strength.. I'd rather have someone have the Squat Flex, and use a heavy back pack, or the bands, or other means of external resistance for the one leg work.

For someone like you... I'd probably say the dumbells.. because I know you are going to put the work in to it.

But most people have a set of dumbbells (albeit not great) and are considering the Squat Flex as a compliment.

I also think it's important to understand these are not people like you...

You (and other here) are people who are going to get it done.  Highly dedicated, routine...

Many of the Squat Flex folks are just looking for ease and convenience, while still yielding some decent training results.

Before I even promoted it, I had people using it, and I worked with them personally to create a program with it and use it from home - and they enjoyed the work... and got decent results.


I think when you are looking at the Squat Flex (could be wrong) you are asking... Is this the best piece of equipment for vertical jump training?

But when I look at it.. I'm thinking... can this be a tool of some value for a certain demographic of my community.  To me the answer is easily yes...

Is it for everyone?  No, and I tell them so.

I even have some people who have access and ARE gym goers but like using it for quick workouts when they get busy.  An easy way to keep progress up.

Again I'm not saying SF is holy grail here.

But for the people who it IS a fit for... they really love it.

Me (when I'm actually home haven't been home in a year...) I go to the gym, but I like to hope on it and see if I can get to the next band level...  It's a fun challenge to overcome - and it friggin tough.

When I was experimenting with it...

At the time I got it, I was dead lifting about 485 lbs but I think I couldn't load the SF completely up.

I was home for about a month maybe 2, and supplemented with the SF just for giggles, and my VJ and DL went up, and I went up on how many bands I could do.  When I left the US I was up to 515 on deadlift.

Anyways... I don't think I see it the way you do... I also don't think I see it the way it is marketed (by others)...


What I would prefer to recommend is an elitefts.com band platform, a barbell, and start loading up on plates...  but now we're talking pricey.. and it's not going to going to work for peoples in home gym setup... (for most of these people).




Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2010, 05:31:23 pm »
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Adarq - Thanks for letting me come in.  After checking out your forum it's actually pretty active which is cool.  I like your slow mo calculator.. I use "MySpeed" for that which is pretty cool.

I still think we're just looking at it's uses differently.

I'm describing to you a demographic who will enjoy using the Squat Flex... and you are not in it.

But in my community alone there are thousands who fit in that category, and for them they love and benefit from using Squat Flex.

No matter what we say or think, these people are not going to be regular gym goers.  It's just not on their radar.  That group of people is larger then I once thought.  I interact with these folks all the time.

Some exercises I showed with Squat flex...

Straight leg DL, Romanian DL, isometric holds, front squat (requires longer bands), hack squat (don't really like it), shrugs, front raise, side / lateral raise, curl variations, bent over rows, up right rows, tricep extensions... 

I'm beginning to think that I see it as a tool for a specific use...

A use which you might agree with bit don't think is justified, or worth the money, OR of course.. just get a gym (which IMO is a mute point to this particular group).

I'm also beginning to think that I don't market this or see it in the same way some of the other marketers do...

Regardless, I'm stuck on the "shunned for life" list.

O well.. at least I don't get flamed, except for that guy who called me the devil.




Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2010, 05:34:18 pm »
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It just keeps coming back to "get in a gym" which by in large is just not the people this is a fit for.

I asked Jump USA about their own market, and they also get a strong majority of people who WANT to do everything from home.... and (in my case) these are people who don't have a garage or a yard or room (or budget) for building their own gym in house.

BMully

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2010, 05:34:44 pm »
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LUKE LOWERY
jacob hiller
alex maroko
adam linkenauger


please give me more names, this list is pretty much the list that shuns you for life.

pc

I think hiller is brining up some good points. Why do you have to say that disagreeing with you means banished/shunned/hated?

could you change that last sentence??

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2010, 05:38:48 pm »
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"Those who truly lack a gym can make use of plenty of other methods before turning to squatflex, BUT, those who truly lack access to a gym/weights are very rare."

I disagree...

Again.. I think this is being very underestimated.

One of the top questions I get for The Jump Manual is... can I do this at home without weights.

I have TONS of people who I give body weight workouts to at home.  Is there a way to get them to a gym.. maybe.. but the fact is... for some reason, they WANT / WILL train at home.

I'm talking thousands of people in my small group, and millions outside of my group.

Workouts to do from home is probably in the top 10 of questions / requests I get.



JackW

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2010, 06:00:47 pm »
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Hi Jacob

talk about walking into the lions den here at adarq.org mate! As always though, you have shown the patience and class I have come to know and respect from you. I just wanted to say kudos for that.

I still think Lance was onto it earlier with a set of adjustable dumbbells is the way to go for home trainers though. You can buy 2 x 40kg (88 pounds for you US folks) for much less than a squat flex and use them for  damn near everything. Sure you don't get the accommodating resistance, but there have been many, many athletes the world over who have made tremendous gains without accommodating resistance - and I say that as someone who uses bands of various types all the time.

Actually, it just occurred to me that if people were super duper keen to get the benefits of accommodating resistence they could buy some adjustable dumbells and a power jumper and still have money left in their pockets. And you can squat, deadlift, lunge AND do a whole bunch of jumping drills with that thing. Just saying.

Cheers

Jack

« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:11:50 pm by JackW »

LanceSTS

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #37 on: December 16, 2010, 06:04:18 pm »
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  If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one.  

  But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?

  The group that is being marketed to is obviously not primarily older, more experienced athletes, its young impressionable ones that dont need half of the things its being said to do, they need progressive resistance with free weights and compound exercises.  If someone had been training for a while and needed a way to tie bands on a deadlift there are many many options besides spending 300$ on that thing.  There is just no justification in my mind for it and its obviously par for the course with their other products and promoted material, with false promises and hype.  

But like I said, if you truly believe in a product and are not promoting it simply for monetary gain regardless of wether it is legit or not then I dont think you should be hated for it, I just think that you may be overlooking some serious issues like injuries and false hope that come with something like that. We could take 2 16 yr old kids, train one with squatflex, one with dumbells (for less than half the money), and I  would bet the house the 2nd kid would get vastly superior results.
Relax.

Cloud3205

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #38 on: December 16, 2010, 06:10:25 pm »
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I just wanted to say I really respect everyone weighing in on this topic - Lance, Jacob, Andrew...I am not trying to be confrontational or anything, but I think that calling Jacob "The Devil" is way out of line and immature.  Jacob has been very helpful to me and is a knowledgeable trainer.  I also think his views on the SquatFlex are different from that of JumpUSA. 

I personally would not trust JumpUSA as far as I could throw them, but if Jacob says that there could be some benefits to the SquatFlex I would believe him.  Conversely, I believe what Lance says as well, namely that there are other methods of training and those methods are superior. 

The only points I want to make are:

1.  Jacob's knowledge of vertical jump training is vast and he has helped countless athletes improve their verticals.
2.  JumpUSA makes ridiculous claims and that Jacob does not assert the same exact claims.
3.  I fail to see how making childish comments, such as calling Jacob "the Devil" advances the discussion on this topic whatsoever.


Edit - I read Lance's comment about being skeptical about never hearing about Squatflex before and I think this is a legitimate concern.  Not that anyone cares what I think ^ ^
« Last Edit: December 16, 2010, 06:17:17 pm by Cloud3205 »

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #39 on: December 16, 2010, 06:18:34 pm »
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For general exercise the dumbells are versatile...

Lance's question was a very interesting hypothetical question, but I find most of these at home people already have some dumbbells, and Squat Flex addition is just a compliment to their at home setup.

To me the coolest part of Squat Flex is being able to max out on these compound lifts very conveniently... again mostly for people not going to hit a gym.

And I'm assuming Jack that you also get a considerable demographic who simply wants to train from home and / or without weights.

And as much as I like single leg lifts, with dumbbells, I find that people belly up to the Squat Flex easier then they do the one leg lifts.  It's just so easy.

Without single leg lifts the dumbbells are easy to max out.

Let me give another example... I have a kid who has money... so money wasn't the problem.  And he just wanted the easiest workout to continue building max strength - from home.

Is he going to use it and like it and benefit from it.. doing the SF and the at home single leg stuff...  yes.

In my opinion the debate we are carrying on here, is different from the original debate, and one worth considering for this particular demographic...

I'm not here to hype this thing up, up but I find that it has a use, especially for this particular group.

I see myself still recommending it to their situation.

It's not the focus of my program, or the revolution of jump training in and of itself.  But for for a certain situations it's a nice tool to continue to make progress... an for those people, that is value.





Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #40 on: December 16, 2010, 06:21:21 pm »
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Thanks Cloud...  appreciate that.

.. The Lions Den [Jack W. reference] ...

BTW - Jack people are much more reasonable then I had thought.

JackW

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #41 on: December 16, 2010, 06:44:43 pm »
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Thanks Cloud...  appreciate that.

.. The Lions Den [Jack W. reference] ...

BTW - Jack people are much more reasonable then I had thought.

I think it comes down to honesty. A lot of the angrier posts relate to dishonest marketing tactics and hype. In your case you have promoted something that without a doubt has been the subject to that special JumpUSA marketing magic. This naturally raises peoples ire.

However you have expressed to me in the past, as well as here now that while you don't agree with the marketing you have an honest opinion that for certain people it can provide a solution. You won't ever convince everybody, and Lance does raise some good points about the timing of your Squat Flex promotion, but I give you the benefit of the doubt because you also expressed this same opinion to me about SF months ago.

Cheers

Jack

PS - While you are here can you post some pics of your wife in the 2sexy4u section. Ha ha.

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #42 on: December 16, 2010, 07:01:28 pm »
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Lance said:

" If you really used it and felt that you had some significant gains then you are entitled to your opinion on it, it just makes me skeptical when I never heard or saw anything about this until the big promotion of it comes out around Christmas time with all of the other people promoting it too.  I also dont believe that "both" is a legitimate answer, obviously someone could buy a squat rack and barbell for that amount of money and wouldnt neccessarily NEED either one. "

I can respect that skepticism... my own gains on it aren't why I am promoting it.  Although I should have mentioned them, but was mostly caught up in the educational side of it.

"Both" is not a legitimate answer, but further down I thought I gave a more legitimate answer.

 "But if you really do believe in it and use it yourself with good gains in performance, why wait until theyre promoting it hard core to all of the sudden talk about it?  Maybe you have other videos or have reccomended it that I dont see?  The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

I wanted to promote it as soon as I tested it and liked it..

BUT, I also knew it was controversial and although i feel my reasons for promoting are legit, I felt that I would be demonized by this group.

I don't keep up with "them" and when they are "marketing it hardcore"  ...

They asked me if I wanted to offer it for the discounted price, and I thought it was time.

I also felt it would take considerable effort and time (which it did) becuase it would be a lot of education about the use of the thing.

LAnce said:

"The EXACT exercise that they made it for is not one you like, so whats more likely, this thing has tons of untapped potential that the designers overlooked, or people are reaching for ways to validate it as a useful piece of equipment?"

Again, I don't feel they market it well, and I feel that it has many uses they don't promote.  

Lance, don't take me wrong here, but for me to market it and not believe it had value, would be horrible for me.  Even if I made a few bucks or even thousands in the long run it would hurt me IMO.

I'm not a SF fanatic, but I think it has benefit for the home group I have been talking about which is a significant population in my community.

Most of them getting it are ADDING it to their little home dumbell set.

I believe.. give me a kid with dumbbells, and give me a kid with dumbbells and the Squat Flex... and we'll out perform the ugly with just the dumbbells.

Your hypothetical question was interesting, but it does represent the reality of the group I'm talking about.

I asked my support staff if one of the most asked questions was about doing the workout from home, and it was clearly a "top 10" concern.

Loads of people say... can I do this at home.. and many of those say.. all I have is a small dumbbell set.

If your questioning my sincerity or character... i can't do much more then give you my word.

But on a side note, if I am convinced that Squat Flex is not of value for that group, I would never promote it... no problem.

I almost didn't promote it anyways, and I believed it was of value... I knew there would be backlash, but I also knew that lots of people would actually use and benefit from SF.

To me it feels like you are determined to find a villain in me for thinking Squat Flex of some value, but to me it just doesn't seem that crazy.

I don't think you know me man... I give a lot of my time and self to the kids, athletes, parents, and coaches I work with.  It's my passion, it's my life... probably like it is for you.





Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #43 on: December 16, 2010, 07:06:29 pm »
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Jack - I agree... and it's true you knew my thoughts about Squat Flex long before I promoted.

But.. I really don't get the point about the "timing" of my launch...

Doing a review or promo about it has been "on the back burner" for a while... partly held at bay because I knew i'd have to do a lot of explaining and people would think I was "one of the "others"...

They contacted me and asked if I wanted to do the promotion for the reduced price...
 
I thought.. time to get it over with... then I came up with the educational format so that people would understand.

I don't understand how timing makes me suspect... really.. maybe I'm missing the point.

Jacob Hiller

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Re: "Coaches" (lol) who promote squatflex - The list you never want to be on
« Reply #44 on: December 16, 2010, 07:16:36 pm »
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Liking Squat Flex isn't exactly a popular stance to have.

I got hate messages and called names just for saying I thought it had it's uses.

I knew it was coming...

I strongly considered just staying out of it.. and I told them so.

I told them I thought..

1. They under sell the actual features of the machine
2. Overhype the marketing
3. Don't get the devices actual use

IMO they are hurting themselves, and could help more people without the hate with a more reasonable and logical approach.

But still I have always felt the device / idea is valuable for a percentage of my community.

But I also told them I like their product and think it has value, and one day I would review it.. but I didn't know how yet.

Yet all the while people who asked I gave them my opinion in private, and worked with several people who used the machine.

Let's not forget I'm not saying SF is my bread and butter, it's not.

But I have learned to work with many different people in many situations and SF has a place for a one of those groups.

We do TONS of one on one work.  In fact I just got off a coaching call.