Author Topic: Jay Schroeder  (Read 79510 times)

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AlexV

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Jay Schroeder
« on: March 10, 2010, 02:52:37 pm »
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Jay Schroeder

First I paid $50 for his general fitness program, hoping to gain insight into how he programs LDISO in conjunction with other means and since we all know LDISOS are all anyone needs I figured they would be in a general fitness program. 

Were they?

Nope, no LDISOS.  Stupid me I thought they "were all you need".

What did I get for $50?

A two page document with 3 circuit training programs implemented into a weekly schedule and exercise descriptions.  More like 1 1/2 pages.

$25 a page.

 And I was worried my $60 ebook was priced high but at least we have pictures, weekly periodization, etc...

And then there is his forum (right adarq)

I posted this friendly question:

Greetings!

I am excited about the new website, forum, articles, etc...

I was wondering if it would be possible to discuss the integration of the various methodics into the EvoSport program. More specifically, the significance of extreme isometrics has become clear, but I was wondering about the organization of other methodics like rebounds, overspeed lifts, maximal effort lifting, etc... into the training program

Thank you for your time. I am excited to learn about your system and hope to ask more thoughtful questions as my understanding of the program grows

Alex


To which I get the excellent reply:



Seriously!  This is a cut n paste from his old blog.  Bull Shit!

So Adarq hops in with:

Right, but I think you are underestimating the OriginalPoster's experience, aka AlexV. He has implemented & utilized LDISO's effectively for some time now. He was merely asking questions about other methodology, beyond iso's, in Schroeder's systems.

AlexV has an impressive background, and has done more than enough to help a ton of athletes. His question should be viewed from the perspective that he has spent time long enough to actually prepare athletes for elite adaptations.

adioz.


And I wait and wait for a reply and nothing so I post:

n the words of ESPN c'mon man!

Lets delve deeper into the system. Seriously. I have had many athletes do extreme isos for 5 min straight for 30 sessions and then do my own stuff cause no one knows what comes next. I begin to wonder why you don't share. May coaches see themselves on the same journey and like helping others (that is a coaches job after all). Many coaches are willing to share and many have elite athletes (Stanley Cup, NCAA Div 1 football champs, Superbowl). We hear all of the critiques but those of us who actually try your philosophies are never rewarded with any nugget beyond "Do extreme isos only"

Yet many of us have viewed programs written for your clients and every client has said the following:

1. Extreme isos do not make up the whole program (contradiction to your claims)
2. No one ever holds for 5 minutes (from numerous athletes of yours)

So lets get off the fence and start sharing and opening up so everyone can learn. Otherwise what is the point of this forum. Really what is the point of the forum if all we will ever hear is "Only do extreme isos". OK we get their importance. We get it and have done it. We also know they are no where near everything in your program. So please open up. The questions are legit.

In closing this is a journey and we do owe it to everyone to pay it forward.

So rip me a new one or whatever. Maybe there will be something beyond "Only do Extreme isos" that others will get from this and maybe, just maybe, someone will actually learn something.


I bet you a million dollars we never get anything beyond "Do extreme Isos they are all you need"  Yet they dont even make up any part of thier general fitness program....

Bull shit, and don't waste your time on his programs cause I have heard complaints from others about the $50 for a 3 page document

I need a scanner.  If I can get one Ill upload about 30 pages worth of jays stuff.  You will learn as much from that as you will from purchasing one of his programs.

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adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2010, 04:43:58 pm »
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oh thank god. I'm going to the movies can't wait to read this & lay into Schroeder.

ILL BE BACK LATER!

Adam.

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2010, 04:47:23 pm »
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Please continue to update this!!

ARowe

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2010, 06:12:15 pm »
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Yeah I searched a lot on forums looking for more info on his training methods and listened to the interviews that are online. I sent Jay an email telling him that I wanted to learn more about his training methods and that I was really interested and liked his philosophies. I even said if he could just tell me some books to read or anything to point me in the right direction that would be great. I got a reply like two days later answering none of my questions, no hints, nothing. BUT, he did tell me he does long distance training ($300 for first month, $100 for each additional month!) and he gave me a number to call if I was interested.

I was sorta surprised he replied but I was like damn you can't even give me a hint or just tell me some books or articles to read. smh
Stats as of October 15, 2010
age: 20
weight: ~153 lbs
height: 5'7", 5'8" with shoes
reach: 7'5.5" in shoes
svj: 30 (vertec)
rvj: 35 (vertec) ~36 (dunk)
full squat 1rm: 315 (msem) ~325 (estimate)

AlexV

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2010, 06:42:11 pm »
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I personally think that we'll never get beyond the Extreme Isos because part of mastery is monitoring bowel movements and no way in hell I am monitoring anyone of my athletes bowel movements so they can always fall back on the old

"They have not attained mastery yet" line...
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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2010, 08:55:34 pm »
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AlexV, what kind of results did your athletes get who progressed to 3-5 min holds?
Stats as of October 15, 2010
age: 20
weight: ~153 lbs
height: 5'7", 5'8" with shoes
reach: 7'5.5" in shoes
svj: 30 (vertec)
rvj: 35 (vertec) ~36 (dunk)
full squat 1rm: 315 (msem) ~325 (estimate)

adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2010, 12:57:41 am »
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ok first of all, these quotes were taken from a Schroeder/John Williams interview, transcribed from someone on db:

Quote
I just finished transcribing and interview with Jay Schroeder from
http://paradigmperformancelab.blogspot.com/2009/01/jay-schroeder-interview.html
I have the text file and the mp3 if you'd like to have as well.


Second of all, I think we as athletes and coaches can learn alot about what people say about themselves. When coaches claim to have some type of "elite performance history", yet have no record of it, it usually means they are full of shit, whether that is some kind of pathological disorder or just being a bullshit artist, who knows, but we see it all too often in s&c.

"OMG I WAS SO AWESOME AT ONE POINT IN MY LIFE!" <-- no, you weren't :/

For example, Schroeder claims, in his own biography, that he is a "drug free world champion powerlifter" and "elite sprinter". Ok, cool, stats? Records? Video? Meet results? This flaw exists in many coaches, who may at one point been driven to be great, but just never got there. I mean, seriously, look around, it exists in every performance gym on the planet. So many coaches BULLSHIT their own history to inflate their creds.

This is as if I were to go tell a bunch of military personal that I was once a decorated navy seal & won a medal of honor. Well, if I know my shit I can pull it off, as do many people who impersonate military personal to spew their own rhetoric, it gives them cred, cred they have not earned.






just some quotes from Schroeder during an audio interview:

Quote
"When i ran, I ran a 4.3 forty at 246 pounds, ppl thought I was running about a 5.2, they'd look at their watch, and go 'Holy Smokes, what the heck, run that again, dammit you don't look like you're running that fast'. You know b/c the middle was ugly, b/c i have some pretty severe limitations from my accident. But ultimately, no one knows that if they look at only the end or if they look at the beginning. " -- JS

Well, let me explain what happened here. First of all, there is not one intelligent s&c coach OR athlete on this forum, or any other forum that would sit here and tell you a 4.3 looked like a 5.2. I've seen multiple 4.3's (& possibly 4.2x) in person, and it is about the most awesome fucking shit I've ever seen. You basically just go: "holy shit". you may even get butterflies or goosebumps.

I'm pretty sure Jay Schroeder, using the emotional experience & enginuity taught to him in the Eastern Bloc by KGB, had their stopwatches modified in order in such a way that, anything registering as a 5.8s 40 yard dash would register as a 4.31. This is how the KGB operate folks, they are good at what they do (or did, peep interpol).


Quote
"Umm, i mean most of thats unbelievable, we've taken ppl and improved vertical jumps 6 inches in a matter of 3-8 minutes, same thing with standing long jumps, same thing with bench rep max, umm, its a matter of understanding how the muscles are working together or how they're not working together, and how we can facilitate this to occur." -- JS

3-8 minutes? WTF? Ok well, let me give my input on this, considering I left about 20 comments on the EVO SPORT broad jump enhancement video, and all such comments were deleted, I have an opinion!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR-FAi2TN6k" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR-FAi2TN6k</a>

I overlayed the takeoff, peak flight, and landing of that person in the video. The trajectory angle AND landing are much different. Now, this could very well be attributed to the ARP, no doubt about it. The ARP + proper stimulation of certain muscle groups/firing patterns could have changed his motor programming rather quickly, causing him to changing trajectory and give him more confidence (strength) in landing much deeper.

Here's the problem I have with that... The trajectory angle/landing were so obviously different, most coaches wouldn't even brag about it. If evo had showed us a broad jump with similar trajectory/landing, yet 6 inch difference, then it would make alot more sense, considering more power was generated.

Even so, a 6" increase in broadjump is akin to a 1" increase in vertical jump, not 6.

It's alot easier to fool the eye on a broad jump than it is for a vert, you tricky devilz. :F

A 6 inch increase in VJ in 3-8 minutes is not possible, sorry. Verk got 6-8% increase in vert using legit, studied methods, such as STIM complexes. I've also seen the same, using stim complexes. You're telling me you have a way to increase vert by 20%?

y u aintz git bolt down 2 9.fo?




Quote
John, I have taken ppl, and improved their bench press 100 pounds in a matter of 6-8 hours, I took my bench from 400 to 551 in just under a day and a half, k took me 34 hours. -- JS

This makes absolutely no sense, I can't even make a joke about it.




Quote
Umm, We've had ppl put on 40 pounds of body weight, in a summer, from football, you know two, two and a half months, eight, ten weeks, and run a 4.4 forty as opposed to a 4.68 or a 4.72, without going out and running. Does that answer your question.

lol, 40 lb in 8 weeks. 5 lb a week.

Not even Rippetoe & GOMAD could achieve such a feat.


Quote
the basis of the system is this, the series of shock routines and ultra super shock routines in order to facilitate 2 main route things, and thats first high load, high volume, high velocity, every great system of the world always strove to get to that point, but at that point is where everybody experienced the downfall.

Iso extremes aren't high load right?



Quote
My wife, she was in a car accident, had shoulder surgery, knee surgery on the same side. And uh they wanted to do back surgery, but I didn't allow that to occur. I knew the surgeon so he took my input, didn't occur. Three months later she was powerlifting, winning on the national championships, and setting records, but we didn't bench, squat or deadlift John, we didn't do any of those things, yet she went out there displayed that.

Seriously, I'm about to become the biggest dickhead on the internet. I am glad your wife was able to recover, truly I am. Which national championship did she win though?

Am I crazy or something because I can't find meet results.

Also, going from car accident to iso extremes to winning national championships in powerlifting in a few months? WHAT? If this actually did happen I will apologize sincerely on video :)





Quote
An athlete is a person who utilizes everything that comprises a human being to the greatest level of achievement that they possibly can, i call it P.I.P.E.S.> Physiology, Intellect, Emotion, Psychology and Spirit. Without any of these things being 100% and tehre's no such thing as 110% in my book theres only 100%. Without all of those given the same attention one cannot truly achieve elite performance, so an athlete is somebody that Utilizes PIPES to the fullest, its not somebody who molests kids or parties when the games over, or parties after the championship or smokes dope or uses drugs of whatever sort, recreational or performance enhancing. Its someone who utilizes everything we have. I'm a believer in God, some ppl take offense to that, some don't but I believe God gave us all of the things we need, but in an interesting way God also made it so that all of these things were possible, but none of them were possible at the same time. Depending on what you chose to do with them, and my system of training is one that's in theory designed to utilize all of these and create elite performance. And elite perfomance to me is the best that, John, you can be, or the best that on eof your clients can be, or the best that I can be, or maybe we're not good enough to make it to the NFL or run 100m in the olympics or play on a Stanley Cup champion, but that doesn't mean we're not elite in our own right. Everything we do is human performance, getting in and out of a chair, picking up our glass to drink milk or OJ in the morning, raising our fork to our mouth to be able to renourish ourselves, everything is athletic, and I'm the kind of guy John, that well like the night we were in Birmingham and we went to dinner, I watched you and your cohort eat and how you raised your arm to get the food to your mouth, how you set it back down, the position it was in when we were talking casually, the position your body was in, your respirations when we were having a more serious part of the discussion, and I live this 24 hours a day, I expect if my client pays me and if its one dollar or thousands of dollars that they're taking it as serious as I am, b/c if one of these things aren't utilized completely to me, you accelerate the death process, b/c you're not living as elite as possible, and you're going to die sooner, I don't care if its one second sooner or a half a second sooner, or a day sooner, its sooner, I want to get the most out of life for myself and everyone that i come into contact with, so I hope that explains to you what i think and athlete is.

I had 140 heart beats, 50 inhiliations and 51 expirations while reading this. I scratched my face 3 times, farted once, and contemplated watching porno (25 times).





Quote
John I don't think its too bad. But the most powerfully thing we do as humans is have an orgasm. And this orgasm is a calculation of PIPES, I believe that we're sexual beings, we grow to a sexual peak and then we slowly die, well if orgasm is the most powerful thing we do, and I can't think of a time that i've ever had an orgasm, that i've been in a bad mood afterwards. I was revitalized, i was fresh, I was, I had no problems, no worries in the world, it didn't matter if i was broke, bankrupt, injured, whatever. If i had an orgasm, all of those things didn't matter, b/c it comprised PIPES, it comprised everything as a human being to this one end point. So my goal is to make training, a freakin' orgasm. And I'm not saying, okay well you should have an orgasm when you train. But you want to elicit all of the same things that you do when you have an orgasm. And let's think about this, if we want to delay the orgasm, John, do we think about having an orgasm?

Interesting..


Quote
If you lose the end picture, and the feelings that are associated with everything to get to that end picture, you're not going to achieve it. Same as you're not going to achieve an orgasm if your mind isn't on having an orgasm.

Touche, then how come when I'm with a girl, im thinking about "iso extremes", in order to not orgasm early, yet within 1 minute, there she blows?

MYTH BUSTED.





Quote
well first ppl don't like to have to incur the cost of emotional output, we avoid displaying emotion every opportunity we can, yet we talk about, talk about it in a manner as if we let it occur on a regular basis. Ppl don't cry when a family member dies b/c well they're not supposed to cry b/c they have to be tough, or its really the best thing, or you know any situation that arises with stress, 'well i've got to handle this in this way', 'i can't do this', 'i'll take a vacation', 'i'll go away from the problem and then the problem will go away'. Well you see training is really a problem, and its a series of problems, and if you don't participate emotionally, and you're heart doesn't get involved, b/c all emotion stems from the heart, and I believe the heart is the real brain, like most of the martial arts and they're derivatives believe, not that i was involved with the martials arts or anything, i came to that conclusion on my own, of course i read it like everyone else did, and said 'hmm, interesting' and then i came to my own conclusion, and i determined the same thing, i believe the heart is the real brain, if we think with our brain we have too many problems, we're always a step behind, we don't allow this emotion to let things occur. In order to move at high velocity, high load, and high volume, and to be able to do it over and over, you have to elicit very specific responses, well if i go to the gym one day John, and I'm umm, doing as we do, an iso extreme lunge, and my father was mad at me if i'm a high school kid or i got a bad grade in school, or the coach really ripped me today b/c i had a poor day, or on the other hand, my girlfriend said she'd marry me, or i got a scholarship to a university, something great, then it completely alters what we do in the gym, if i come in a bad mood, then thats the way i'm going to participate, i'm not going to ahve the right emotion or any emotion elicited in order to create these high speed, high load, high volume conctractions, b/c without the exact same stimulus, applied in the exact same manner, you can never duplicate the movement or the contraction or whatever you want to call it, over and over and over, and its the series of doing things over and over and over, that really solidifies this information and the way its transfered thru the nervous system to the brain, so that it can send information back based on what the response was of the muscles of the organs of what we were trying to stimulate. So our iso extreme, greatest joint angle, challenge one to participate emotionally. John i'm sure when you were doing it, you questioned what the heck am i doing here, and possibly when you questioned that, you took a break, you took a break how? well you took a break from changing the picture, changing the feeling of what the end is, and you were now focusing on this discomfort that you're feeling, but if we embrace this discomfort that you're feeling, and we use it to elicit more emotion, to elicit a more powerful, more high velocity contraction, we can take advantage of it and it tranfers to athletics,

We (AlexV especially) were willing to participate emotionally and intellectually on the EVO forum, why didn't you (or your fellow coaches)?

Zeet.





Quote
I've had ppl from 4 to 81 yrs old, ppl with ?beyond? gray, MS, stroke victims, and whatever else you can imagine in between, and every sport from archery to uh, I don't know one that begins with a Z John. But everything in between and they all experience the exact same results.

6 inch increases in vert in 6-8 minutes?





Quote
JS: Its the same thing, there's a huge cost on our part, and ppl don't understand that. If its what it takes for us to get it across to the client, then it must be good enough for the client. You and I, John, we're willing to expend that cost, we're willing to endure everything that comes from it. We need to get our clients, where they can endure that same aspect.

AlexV is technically a client, yet you ignored him for over 5 months?

Was this part of his training, you know, the Adam Archuletta breakin` em` in process?




Quote
JS: Oh, I think its really easy, they don't possess the ability to have this rapid turning on and turning off for enough time. They haven't spent enough time doing it. They spend all their time doing these submaximal effort A and B skits and all this other crap. Rather than getting out there and running the way they're supposed to, as long as they can, maybe its only 5 meters, and then they could build up to 10 and 12 and 40 and 60, and all these other things, but they don't prepare themselves to be able to do that, b/c they're satisfied with 9.79, 9.76, or whatever, I think its 9.76 now, but it doesn't matter, b/c you see, their vision doesn't exceed what their eyes can see. Where as my system of training, says, Hell when i was in Russia, i watched them run with this apparatus in 8 seconds or less. Using, propelling themselves only with the use of their limbs, there wasn't any artificial propulsion of any kind, but they did a piece of equipment that allowed them to uh, you know run at this higher velocity. Thats what needs to be done, they need to put in more work, quality work, rather than all the same work that they're doing, they all end up with the same injuries at the same time at the same velocities, thats crazy, humans we should improve more than that, with the technology of tracks, and shoes, and materials and things, we should be just going fricking crazy. But we're not. B/c we compromise what we ask ppl to do, we don't have them do things that will actually create a higher level of performance, again ppl's vision is only as far as their eyes can see. You and I John, i know we've talked many times, you and I we dream it, we see it, and we feel it at the end so we know it can happen, and that's why we train ppl the way we train them.

Surely if it were this easy you'd have Tyson Gay down to 9.4 right now :)










Ok well I'll try and find more funny ass schroeder quotes, there were a bunch in "the most shocking interview ever".

So, BBL, re-attaching my head (which was just severed by jihadi) with my ARP (thanx J), after that I'm going to do a few 5 minutes iso extremes and run a few 3.9 40 yard dashes.







adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2010, 01:12:09 am »
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Yeah I searched a lot on forums looking for more info on his training methods and listened to the interviews that are online. I sent Jay an email telling him that I wanted to learn more about his training methods and that I was really interested and liked his philosophies. I even said if he could just tell me some books to read or anything to point me in the right direction that would be great. I got a reply like two days later answering none of my questions, no hints, nothing. BUT, he did tell me he does long distance training ($300 for first month, $100 for each additional month!) and he gave me a number to call if I was interested.

I was sorta surprised he replied but I was like damn you can't even give me a hint or just tell me some books or articles to read. smh


that's foul...

you should go for it though, pay 300 the first month then see if he recommends any books or gives you any good tidbits of training advice.

lulzjk

Adam.

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2010, 09:32:14 am »
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that's foul...

you should go for it though, pay 300 the first month then see if he recommends any books or gives you any good tidbits of training advice.

lulzjk


We should get an investigative reporter to go under his methods.

AlexV

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2010, 01:31:09 pm »
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AlexV, what kind of results did your athletes get who progressed to 3-5 min holds?

My golf team won the conference championship AND finished in the top 20 (out of over 200 schools in div 1, FWIW football only has like 114 schools)

The most noticeable are the following:
They move better
They are more reactive
They report more dreams and deeper sleep
They also report calmness and focus
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Kellyb

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 02:58:21 pm »
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LOL. Don't forget the whole therastim/ARP deal between Jay and Dennis Thompson. They are the same unit, and IIRC it used to be you could buy a therastim unit for $2500. Fichter has one I believe, and so do a couple of other people I know. I believe Therastim/Arp was a 3 way partnership between Jay, Dennis Thompson, and the owner of therastim, whose name I don't recall. Anyway, Jay and Dennis basically made it to where the therastim is no longer for sale and the only way to get the machine is thru the Arp, which isn't sold. In order to use it you have to "lease" it for something like $15000 a year, which gives you access to the machine along with the supersecret Arp protocols. 

AlexV

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #11 on: March 11, 2010, 03:41:01 pm »
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Super secret is another code word for scammer
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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 06:59:28 am »
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"I started off my career with grossly obese women, you had to be 365 lb plus to enter the program. I trained them exactly the same way as my system exists today. And within 6.5-9.5 months, these were 160 lb women. No special diet, obviously eating well, whatever well means to people, to me it means eating a little bit of everything. Uhm, with enough time in between, and training hard enough to stimulate your physiology enough to use it." -- JS


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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 12:10:57 pm »
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"I started off my career with grossly obese women, you had to be 365 lb plus to enter the program. I trained them exactly the same way as my system exists today. And within 6.5-9.5 months, these were 160 lb women. No special diet, obviously eating well, whatever well means to people, to me it means eating a little bit of everything. Uhm, with enough time in between, and training hard enough to stimulate your physiology enough to use it." -- JS



He claimed top only use extreme isos with them...

How come no extreme isos in the general fitness program.  If anyone could benefit from general fitness it would be the grossly obese...
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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 02:07:38 pm »
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So are there any scientifically proven adaptations from these god-like extreme-isos?