Author Topic: Jay Schroeder  (Read 85879 times)

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adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #165 on: September 10, 2010, 04:40:56 pm »
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no it is the original book.  a bunch of people got their panties in a bunch cause RJ hasn't ever coached anyone.  IIRC some called him a scammer, etc...

Of course we know RJ is a stand up guy

The experience is a legitimate criticism BUT no one ever argued the theory and science behind the book.  :o

Yup, "Davan" really dislikes RJ.

edit: I guess Davan's beef is how RJ approached 100m training, and how he "professed" his training to others, then switch up his mindsets pretty hardcore, while "quitting" sprinting, in the end never really realizing his full potential. Davan wanted RJ to follow simple CF principles, which probably would have worked better. So that, and a lack of experience with training other people, hit a nerve with that guy.

pc

So this is what Davan posts to me

Are you mad that you aren't making money on your crappy vertical jump ebook? Kill yourself fgt.

All I can say is that John Grossman posted a kid gained 14" on his vert following the program.  I don;t know john, don't email him, never pmed him.  Unsolicited testimonial.  From a  "crappy" book.

And to kill myself.  

Right.

Very mature

We all know davan loves CF.  My point is you don't have to be a dick when you disagree with someone.

that is fucked up..

dmarrone39

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #166 on: November 13, 2010, 09:34:08 am »
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lo, just stirring the pot...

http://vimeo.com/5117175

bball2020

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #167 on: November 13, 2010, 01:36:23 pm »
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that hamstring GHR thing was amazing though..

adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #168 on: November 13, 2010, 03:10:19 pm »
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lo, just stirring the pot...

http://vimeo.com/5117175

ya that's a great video, before schroeder was only about iso extremes.. then he just flipped, nutjob status.

adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #169 on: November 17, 2010, 08:55:24 pm »
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CoachAnderson

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #170 on: December 21, 2010, 05:14:44 pm »
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While there is more than enough trash talking on Schroeder here, I am a Schroeder athlete.  Even better I have an ARP machine.  Shoot me any questions you may have about it.  I am not here to write programs for everyone, general questions or science based only please.
Thanks, Coach

adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #171 on: December 21, 2010, 05:33:07 pm »
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While there is more than enough trash talking on Schroeder here, I am a Schroeder athlete.  Even better I have an ARP machine.  Shoot me any questions you may have about it.  I am not here to write programs for everyone, general questions or science based only please.
Thanks, Coach

Welcome aboard, but it's not really "trash talking". Trash talking is what schroeder did in his "most shocking interview", we are simply restating his "trash claims" and then poking fun at them etc. If Schroeder did not make such insane claims and become obsessed with extreme isometrics, then we wouldn't have any problem with him. Hell, I've learned some things from Schroeder, but there's more bad than good imo.

What are your credentials, website, stats, education, etc? Where do you train your athletes? What kind of progress did you make under Schroeder's coaching? I doubt anyone is going to ask you for programs, no offense, we for the most part stick to the simple effective methods, those of Verkhoshansky, Zatsiorsky, etc.

Peace.

Raptor

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #172 on: December 21, 2010, 06:03:31 pm »
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Don't give him ammo and spell Zatsiorsky's name correctly ;D

adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #173 on: December 21, 2010, 06:05:32 pm »
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Don't give him ammo and spell Zatsiorsky's name correctly ;D

ya that was a true typo, i know how to spell that shit... lol

CoachAnderson

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #174 on: December 21, 2010, 07:03:33 pm »
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Well see, I'm not a true Jay junky.

My story sorry its long...

Played Collegiate Volleyball..graduated, got bored and became a competitive bodybuilder.  (Short lived) After my 2nd competition my knee began to hurt...the infamous "jumper's knee".  I was taking 1200 mg ibuprofen before playing volleyball, then it was just to much and had to stop playing.  Couldn't squat, got up off the floor with one leg, couldn't walk down stairs...etc.

I went to Jay for the ARP rehab uses so I could play again.  Literally 2 weeks later I was pain free.  Obviously after being so excited to be able to walk and play again, I became a semi-believer.  I did his program for about 3 months.  6 months later, the pain came back.  I didn't have $800 more dollars to give him for the ARP, so I toughed it out and went to find the ARP on the "black market".  6-9 Months after that I had my own ARP.  I found 2 other "hot spots" as they like to call them, I fixed them and bam I've been pain free for over a year, playing volleyball 3-5 times a week for 2-3 hours. (yep, I AM a volleyball junky)

Here is what I can tell you about his program.  It, in my opinion, is the fastest way to break old habits and prepare the body for new adaptations.  Basically by balancing out the musculature.  And secondly, after taking a break from ISO extremes, going back to them for literally 1 day make your body function so much better in terms of movement and activation.

I'll try and help the best I can. 






adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #175 on: December 21, 2010, 07:17:58 pm »
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Well see, I'm not a true Jay junky.

My story sorry its long...

Played Collegiate Volleyball..graduated, got bored and became a competitive bodybuilder.  (Short lived) After my 2nd competition my knee began to hurt...the infamous "jumper's knee".  I was taking 1200 mg ibuprofen before playing volleyball, then it was just to much and had to stop playing.  Couldn't squat, got up off the floor with one leg, couldn't walk down stairs...etc.

I went to Jay for the ARP rehab uses so I could play again.  Literally 2 weeks later I was pain free.  Obviously after being so excited to be able to walk and play again, I became a semi-believer.  I did his program for about 3 months.  6 months later, the pain came back.  I didn't have $800 more dollars to give him for the ARP, so I toughed it out and went to find the ARP on the "black market".  6-9 Months after that I had my own ARP.  I found 2 other "hot spots" as they like to call them, I fixed them and bam I've been pain free for over a year, playing volleyball 3-5 times a week for 2-3 hours. (yep, I AM a volleyball junky)

Here is what I can tell you about his program.  It, in my opinion, is the fastest way to break old habits and prepare the body for new adaptations.  Basically by balancing out the musculature.  And secondly, after taking a break from ISO extremes, going back to them for literally 1 day make your body function so much better in terms of movement and activation.

I'll try and help the best I can. 

Glad the ARP & Jay's programs helped you so much. I am more along the lines of Alex V's thinking on variations of jay's isos, they can be a great postural correction/activation tool, but to use them alone or with only an ARP does not provide enough of a stimulus to make serious gains in strength, rate of force production, and hypertrophy, for example.

Do you have a name? None of us will be able to condone any info you provide on this forum or take you seriously, if you are not able and willing to provide us with your name, as you call yourself a Coach, that should not be a problem. Your site makes no mention of your name either.

My point above is, we (many members of this forum) have run into proponents of ARP & Jay, most ALL of which do not reveal their true identity or legit credentials. I hope this is not the case with you, but if it is, it will be hard to take any information you provide seriously, as their are MANY shady Jay supporters (under his guidance or on their own) on the internet.

Hope you understand where i'm coming from.

Peace.

CoachAnderson

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #176 on: December 22, 2010, 03:30:26 pm »
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So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

 




adarqui

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #177 on: December 23, 2010, 11:35:35 pm »
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So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

That makes no sense but ok... How many archulettas has Jay put out? He's trained some impressive athletes, but if his system worked the way he promoted it, he'd be a pro-maker. We'd see some pretty insane transformations attributed to Schroeder.. I havn't seen many, have you? If so, could you list them/link them?



Quote
I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

holding an iso for a very long time results in a fused tetanus contraction? how? These contractions are submax, you can "pull yourself into position as hard as you want", but it's going to be a series of smaller contractions, it isn't anywhere near as maximal as he claims.



Quote
If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

regardless of Co2 consumption and all of that stuff, being able to repeat "maxes" in a session with short rest is an indicator of great work capacity, that is why he cares.. If you can perform maximally for 10 singles, 20 singles, or 30 singles, you're looking at direct transfer to the field, as well as just being able to progress more in the weight room. If your CNS "dies" after a few singles with 95-100% training max (no psycheup), how can you expect to perform maximally on the field for any considerable duration? That's what he's getting at here... a maximal strength effort method (MSEM) with MORE volume and SHORTER rest, to enhance overall work capacity and on-field performance.




Quote
When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

I know how, run sprints.... I don't care what anyone says, "maximal velocity of contraction" will not happen in an ISO EXTREME.



Quote
What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

Well, his old ideology of training (clusters of max bench reps, holds, drop-catch lifts, high volume high frequency training) is great.. his ISO EXTREME + ARP ideology is trash.. Rewriting the ENTIRE s&c "bible" in favor of some unweighted isos & an ARP is beyond insane to me, it's not about "trying something new", it's about making solid-proven-effective methods MORE effective and applying them correctly to your athletes.....



Quote
I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

oh ok.. I just got it from whois'n your site, was just seeing if you would post it, the "anonymity" of Schroeder supports always bugs me, not saying you are trying to be anonymous for shady reasons, it's just I see it alot among Schroeder supporters..

peace

CoachAnderson

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #178 on: December 24, 2010, 07:23:59 am »
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So Jay likes to closely guard his secrets.  I have a feeling he has certain things written down that he doesn't say.  Or in other words, the reasons why he believes in his own program, he doesn't tell anyone because he is scared of losing all his clients to other people that are more rational.

That makes no sense but ok... How many archulettas has Jay put out? He's trained some impressive athletes, but if his system worked the way he promoted it, he'd be a pro-maker. We'd see some pretty insane transformations attributed to Schroeder.. I havn't seen many, have you? If so, could you list them/link them?



Quote
I attached a diagram of one of many of my hypothesis that he bases his theories off of....

Essentially the first two peaks show basic muscle contractions the next is what I think Jay is going for.  The physiological theory that multiple combined action potentials induce a stronger contraction.  There is much more to this than a single graph can dictate, but I thought it would give an example.

So an iso extreme is really just the holding of contraction for a long time.  He must believe he can elicit this effect. 

holding an iso for a very long time results in a fused tetanus contraction? how? These contractions are submax, you can "pull yourself into position as hard as you want", but it's going to be a series of smaller contractions, it isn't anywhere near as maximal as he claims.



Quote
If it were possible to elicit a stronger muscle contraction, then a stronger muscle contraction would produce a higher jump, bigger bench, etc.

Now to another interesting part.  The whole fatigue thing.  He is crazy about being able to do Max bench reps over and over.  I'm not 100% sure of why he is so obsessed, but in a football game I guess it could help.  Anyway, a study done by Johnson and Koraen showed the CO2 consumption of a static contraction being 10,000 times more than that of typical postural support.  In an iso, it is essentially a static contraction.

regardless of Co2 consumption and all of that stuff, being able to repeat "maxes" in a session with short rest is an indicator of great work capacity, that is why he cares.. If you can perform maximally for 10 singles, 20 singles, or 30 singles, you're looking at direct transfer to the field, as well as just being able to progress more in the weight room. If your CNS "dies" after a few singles with 95-100% training max (no psycheup), how can you expect to perform maximally on the field for any considerable duration? That's what he's getting at here... a maximal strength effort method (MSEM) with MORE volume and SHORTER rest, to enhance overall work capacity and on-field performance.




Quote
When I have time I'll post on how to achieve the maximum velocity of contraction.  Max velocity combined with max strength contraction should elicit pretty good results.

I know how, run sprints.... I don't care what anyone says, "maximal velocity of contraction" will not happen in an ISO EXTREME.



Quote
What I think is that Jay is truly a geek.  He is trying to apply physiological information we have had for a long time. While I cant say that I am a pure fan.  I do give him props for trying something new, rather than rewriting a squat and bench program.

Well, his old ideology of training (clusters of max bench reps, holds, drop-catch lifts, high volume high frequency training) is great.. his ISO EXTREME + ARP ideology is trash.. Rewriting the ENTIRE s&c "bible" in favor of some unweighted isos & an ARP is beyond insane to me, it's not about "trying something new", it's about making solid-proven-effective methods MORE effective and applying them correctly to your athletes.....



Quote
I will give my name in IMs but since I previously stated I have a "black market" ARP, I can't very well disclose it to the world.

oh ok.. I just got it from whois'n your site, was just seeing if you would post it, the "anonymity" of Schroeder supports always bugs me, not saying you are trying to be anonymous for shady reasons, it's just I see it alot among Schroeder supporters..

peace

I'm sure its a discussion elsewhere on this board.  But the comment with regards to athletes he has trained.  I'm not saying he is a "pro producer", but who is?  There is a huge debate over cause vs correlation.  Ex:  Does Parisi Speed School produce the top athletes with the top numbers or do the top athletes go to Parisi, then put out top numbers because they were already elite?  Next is, what if Jay made someone really strong and adaptive, what would the result be on the field.  What if YOU trained someone to increase their squat 200lbs, bench 100lbs, increased their 40 time etc.,  What results would we then see on the field?  That whole subject leads to the acquisition of skill and skill transfer, which may be somewhere else on here too.  If not, I'll add it later.

I won't go into the tetanic contractions this very second, but a large part of the research comes from pregnant women.  Here is a link http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbind/pubbooks/martinidemo/chapter10/medialib/CH10/html/ch10_5_1.html

The co2 concept is more than just maximal effort.  Its a matter of making your body cycle through energy systems, including the metabolism of lactic acid, efficiently.  If you sprint then stop, your body is able to recover via O2 systems and other cycles available.  The iso holds restrict a lot of blood flow leaving the local tissue with limited nutrients and limited availability of nutrient replenishment.   Actually something you rarely see on any training forum in the USA is the idea of fasting for performance.  If you make sure you eat right for say a week prior to fasting, the results are pretty impressive in performance.  Not more than 10% but still significant if you need a 1 time performance.

Maximum velocity of contraction that I am referring to, does not refer to how fast you lift the weight, so sprinting doesn't address the same issue.  Check out this link...http://www.unmc.edu/physiology/Mann/mann14.html  If you look at the paragraph titled "force-velocity relation" you will understand what I was speaking of.  It even mentions "lengthening" the muscle, one of Jay's huge words he uses.  WAIT!! So I just made a new connection, the POV SPort jay is coming out with says on the website "Force Velocity"  In the article, it mentions that the best way to lengthen the muscle would be with Zero load. I guess that's where the ARP comes in.  (I apologize if this is all to scientific.  I'm a biologist by education, so it makes sense to me at that level)

I hope people are more than just dismissing all of this.  I am here trying to give insight based on my knowledge and experience with both the machine and the program.  Even if 75% of what  J teaches is wrong, maybe there is a scientific 25% that makes sense.

Good luck training!





Jean-Paul

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Re: Jay Schroeder
« Reply #179 on: April 25, 2011, 06:25:40 pm »
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Hi everyone. New poster here... Just wanted to chime in on this topic.

First, my name is Jean-Paul (hence the creative user name). I'm a trainer based out of Arkansas. I have been working as a trainer since 1987, although the first ten years I were practically a waste since I cut my teeth in bodybuilding gyms and only came around to the whole performance enhancement side of things in the last 15 years.

I read most of this thread and it is obvious that JS is considered to be a nut job at the very least.

I recently spent the better part of a week training with him and found him to be quite intelligent and passionate. Crazy in a good way. With smart, passionate people it is pretty common that those go along with a healthy ego. I don't know about the validity of all of his claims with his athletes so I won't try to defend him on that.

In my personal background I have worked with a lot of injured athletes (lately mostly golfers as I work at an exclusive private golf course as their "golf performance and functional training specialist"), and I use many different methods to help my clients keep hitting straight and far, such as ART, AIS, postural correction, jumpstretch bands, KBs, yada yada, ad nauseum.

My only issue was that I had no one to work on me, and I have had chronic shoulder/neck pain since the early 90's (4 surgeries on my shoulders). My right shoulder has been so extremely painful for so long that I honestly forgot what it felt like to not feel it. I have done dozens of cortisone shots over the years, which never really fixed the problem but masked it for a few weeks.

Long story short, I did a grand total of 3 "search and destroy" sessions with the ARPwave POV and I feel fantastic. At the extreme ranges I still feel a slight twinge, but I don't feel that constant shooting pain, I have stopped taking Naproxyn (which I popped like candy), and I can actually reach straight over head. I even went out an played some catch with one of my sons who's in baseball over the weekend, which is something I haven't done in a long time.

Jay did go a little bit into iso-extremes, but not a whole lot. He talked about "re-educating" the muscles to function properly by loading them heavily instead of backing off and training light or avoiding using an injured bodypart. This statement is very brief but he went into it quite a bit. I'm not saying this to start a new topic, rather just to say that he isn't exclusively an iso-extreme guy.

I have worked on two other clients with the ARP system since I did my own treatment, and the results were pretty amazing with regards to pain relief. One of my clients was in so much pain he couldn't even bend forward to put on his own socks, and he had a golf tournament that he was supposed to be in over the next two days. I would have been satisfied just to get him out of such extreme back pain, but I found out a couple days later than he not only was able to play, he actually won first place.

These are merely anecdotes. I have not read studies on the success rate of this technology, but having been in such desperate pain I was willing to try anything. All I have to go on here is my own experience, so take it for what it's worth. Like him or not for whatever reason, his product is most definitely NOT bullshit.

That's all... Thanks for letting me include my two pesos. Great forum. I'll have to add it to my list to check on a regular basis.