Author Topic: RELIGION  (Read 27976 times)

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Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2016, 05:05:50 am »
0
It's not my concern that the term "monkey" has been used by racist people. You can't hold me responsible for the racism in your country. I'm using the term "monkey" in the way I described, and it has nothing to do with race. Hence, it's not racist. But you keep saying it's racist. I can't do anything about that, about the fact that you don't want to listen to me, and keep on pounding that I'm using racist terms.

Don't judge me for the way others have used that term, in your own country.

Next thing, how do you know what I study or not study? What I do or don't do in my life? Sounds similar to the projection over Dawkins' personal life. You seem to do that a lot.

You don't live my life. You don't know what I must do to maintain my home, my mom and my sister, with the money I make. Stop being so fucking arrogant and think I have the resources to do "hours of problem sets". Stop thinking I live in your rich country. Stop making all these assumptions from your position of superiority.

T0ddday

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #121 on: July 21, 2016, 09:47:35 am »
0
It's not my concern that the term "monkey" has been used by racist people. You can't hold me responsible for the racism in your country. I'm using the term "monkey" in the way I described, and it has nothing to do with race. Hence, it's not racist. But you keep saying it's racist. I can't do anything about that, about the fact that you don't want to listen to me, and keep on pounding that I'm using racist terms.

Don't judge me for the way others have used that term, in your own country.

Next thing, how do you know what I study or not study? What I do or don't do in my life? Sounds similar to the projection over Dawkins' personal life. You seem to do that a lot.

You don't live my life. You don't know what I must do to maintain my home, my mom and my sister, with the money I make. Stop being so fucking arrogant and think I have the resources to do "hours of problem sets". Stop thinking I live in your rich country. Stop making all these assumptions from your position of superiority.

No it is your problem.  You don't get to call a black person in my country a racist slur.  You don't get to redefine the term.  If you do it out of ignorance I'll give you a pass.  But once you realize that your talking to an American person about another American person and using racial slurs you change your language.  That's called basic respect. 

You remind me of a camel.  The camel in "how the camel got his hump" is rude, arrogant and intellectually lazy.  But if you tell me camel is a racial slur directed at Romanians and every time I say that it triggers a response about years of oppression you guys faced it is ON ME to use a different word!   It's not on you to assume that I somehow use it differently.  It's called basic respect.  You don't have it.  That's why I "gave up". 

Seriously if you want people to not think your an asshole don't ever tell someone they are projecting. First of all the whole concept comes from Freudian pseudoscience.  Second it requires you to know the persons insecurities - you don't and it's arrogant and insulting to assume you do.  Third, it's not falsifiable.  It's the equivalent of arguing with someone who believes in a devil who can control your thoughts and actions and brings him up when you disagree.  Any criticism I make of someone can just be me projecting my insecurities onto that person - you can make that claim but it's not part of a debate.  In a debate you refute the claim - you don't need to tell the person that they only believed this cause they are projecting...

Finally.  Sorry you from a poor country man.  But I don't really care or see how that relates to physics.  How do I know what you study or don't study?  Sure I don't know exactly your academic background... But given your copious surface level posts about physics riddled with common mistakes that someone without actual mathematical training would make - I'm pretty confident that I would take the bet that you haven't had training in physics or math. 

Oh that's cause you can't afford to go to colleges cause you live in a poor country?  Again, I don't care.  Life isn't fair.  There isn't infinite time.  Maybe you can't study physics properly.  Doesn't give you the right to pontificate about things you don't understand or claim that their is a rational basis to something you don't understand and only believe cause someone else told you.  It makes your argument fall apart when you bring up physics as an alternative to religion and faith when you only believe in the model from physics because you have faith in the smart person that described it.

There is lots of things I don't have time to study.  That's life.  But I don't pretend to be an expert in them.  I don't read about the arguments of linguists about a language and parrot them if I don't first out in the time to get a basic understanding of the languages structure.  That's just a requirement people hold themselves to.  Don't talk big about stuff you don't understand.  It's part of that don't be an arrogant asshole thing.  And sorry there is no clause for "if your from a country and can't afford to study the field then an exception is granted and by all means obtain a surface level knowledge with no actual understanding of the model and describe it as rigorously supported when you have no idea why it is".

It's probably true that my life and opportunity is better than yours... I was lucky to be born with the chance to live in a wealthy country.  But I guarentee if you were born into my life I - you woulld still find something to complain about!  That's who you are.  I wish it weren't so.

Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2016, 10:03:57 am »
0
Now you're even more arrogant than before. Just when I was thinking it's not possible. Basically, I would say each sentence is filled with self-proclaimed superiority.

I guess that's what your superior religious morality drives into you. Funny how you talk about me talking about projection and then you doing the same. Interesting how this works.

T0ddday

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2016, 12:53:25 pm »
+2
Now you're even more arrogant than before. Just when I was thinking it's not possible. Basically, I would say each sentence is filled with self-proclaimed superiority.

I guess that's what your superior religious morality drives into you. Funny how you talk about me talking about projection and then you doing the same. Interesting how this works.

No I don't think about better than you.  I'm just not as much of an ass as you.  If something is offensive to you and just about everyone in your country I won't say it.  I won't ask you to parse my non racist intent and put the burden on you.  That's about it. 

And I don't think your projecting anything.   I'm making no claims about how your intent is an indirect effect of your religiosity or atheism.  I'm just a scientist making educated guesses - I'm wrong sometimes about them but I'm right more often than wrong.  For example when you say racist things my educated guess is that your racist.  Maybe I'm wrong.  Perhaps your just insensitive.  But it's a good guess - generally people dropping racist slurs are racist.  I'm not pretending to know what's going on inside your head - I'm focused on the effect of what comes out your mouth (or your keyboard I guess).  From the evidence you have posted your a better single leg jumper than me.  From what you have posted I can infer that you don't have training in physics or math.  Maybe not.  Maybe your just trolling and pretending to post in such a way, I can be wrong but I'm gonna make my best guesses when I find the evidence strong...

Listen I don't think I'm reaching you. 

How about I just apologize for insulting Richard Dawkins.  You spent a lot of time explaining how arrogant you felt it was that I jumped to the conclusion that being an insufferable ass might make marriage hard.  Your right - I don't know how his personality changes in his love life.  Maybe he's an awesome partner and women have mistreated him... Shoot maybe the abuse he has suffered from women is actually WHY he is an insufferable guy... Maybe it's a sensitive topic for him.  It doesn't do any good for me to then make a joke about his failures in his love life - that will only make him more of an asshole and if I'm critical of it why would I want to be part of the cause?  Your offended on his behalf as well that I conflated his personal life with his professional character and for that I apologize to him and I apologize to you.  In fact I will make a better effort not to tease people who don't have the most affable personalities about their personal lives - it could be a source of pain and a cause of their character.  Thanks for calling me out.  Sorry.

Now how bout you apologize for using a racial slur about someone from my community?  How about you agree to avoid using the word monkey in reference to black people (or just people in general) because no matter your intent it is a word that people find very offensive and does not make people like eachother.  Consider that someone might read only the post where you say "I hate that monkey" and not your subsequent posts describing how you didn't intend it as its colloquially used but as a reference to his style of play.  Consider the current environment in the United States with racist politics, police shooting black people, black people shooting police, etc.  You think a black person reading your first post is going to make things better or worse?  Maybe you can try and change for the better like I will.  Otherwise we didn't get much out of this exchange except for you thinking I'm really religious which is funny.

John Stamos

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2016, 12:58:46 pm »
0


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LBSS

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Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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LBSS

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #126 on: July 21, 2016, 03:29:18 pm »
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It's not my concern that the term "monkey" has been used by racist people. You can't hold me responsible for the racism in your country. I'm using the term "monkey" in the way I described, and it has nothing to do with race. Hence, it's not racist. But you keep saying it's racist. I can't do anything about that, about the fact that you don't want to listen to me, and keep on pounding that I'm using racist terms.


THIS IS NOT HOW LANGUAGE WORKS, IDIOT
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Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #127 on: July 21, 2016, 07:02:40 pm »
-1
It's not my concern that the term "monkey" has been used by racist people. You can't hold me responsible for the racism in your country. I'm using the term "monkey" in the way I described, and it has nothing to do with race. Hence, it's not racist. But you keep saying it's racist. I can't do anything about that, about the fact that you don't want to listen to me, and keep on pounding that I'm using racist terms.


THIS IS NOT HOW LANGUAGE WORKS, IDIOT

Again, it's not my concern that you skew the words I say to make me look racist. That term had nothing about race in it - it was all to do with how he acted on the floor. That's all. Last time I checked, he could care less about how I call him - he's taking his millions of dollars and not giving a shit about how I call him.

Solve your racist problems in your country, and my term will be taken as the insult that it is, and not a racial slur. Not my problem you guys are racists over there. If you weren't, the term would've been taken as an insult. Just like you called me "idiot", I have the free speech to insult Green, so I'm going to do exactly that.

By the way, it's interesting how you guys turned this topic around from religion to this.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 07:08:54 pm by Raptor »

Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #128 on: July 22, 2016, 05:44:00 am »
0
OK, so let me try to clarify a few things:

First off, I'm not in the best mental state. Treat that as purely informative, not an excuse. Basically, take that in, and then completely ignore it.

Now,

1) Regarding the "monkey" comment - I still maintain that. I perfectly understand what you're saying. You're saying "maybe you used that term as purely an insult with no racial connotation whatsoever, but due to the history of racists using that exact word to torment black people in my country, and the country where Draymond Green is, it's easy to see how that can be viewed as a racist remark, before anything else. Even if you didn't mean it like that, it's at the very least "uncool" to use that term considering you know this is the situation, and you should apologize for using that term".

To which I simply disagree. I don't think I shouldn't be allowed to use a term differently simply because other people used it in a racist context. Judge them, blame them, but that's it. I'm not responsible for what they did. This is my honest opinion (I genuinely think this, I'm not trying to denature anything in any way). Now, one thing you could say is "still, even if it's not racist, you're still insulting Green terribly". That's exactly my intent. He insults the way I see basketball, by his style of "play". When he acts the way he does on the court, kicking people in the balls several times, acting like a crazy guy, being "aggressive", that is insulting to me. That makes me dislike something that I usually enjoy - basketball. So then, I have the right to insult him.

If you say "OK, you have the freedom not to watch basketball if you dislike it". Well, I want to watch quality basketball, and because he's on the GSW, he prevents me from enjoying that. Also, he has the freedom not to read my insulting comments. I bet he exercised that freedom and he doesn't even know I exist. I'm irrelevant for him, and he makes in one day the money I make in 1 year. So I wouldn't be too upset in Mr. Green's name.

This is what I honestly believe, and of course, you're free to say "no, you're a fucking racist, you use racist remarks and pretend they're simple insults, this is not "how language works" and so on". Guess what? That's your opinion, and it's perfectly fine. My opinion is the one stated here. Then we can say we fundamentally disagree.

2) Speaking about God - again, I never said you shouldn't be allowed to "believe" in God. Heck, I think we all would want our death not to be final, to be a greater purpose of our lives, to continue our life in another form and so on and so forth. There's no evidence of that whatsoever. In fact, looking at biology and neuroscience, we're just a bunch of neurons (in terms of our perceptions and personality) that, through complicated firing patterns, create "us". Modify that, and we're "someone else". Once these neurons die, "we" die.

However, God can play a significant part for people that are hopeless. If you're hopeless, if you have a terminal disease, if you're on the verge of suicide, believing there's "God" out there and listens to your prayers, that gives you a significant boost of hope, maybe completely illogical or whatever, but that hope makes the difference between you giving up to your disease and die, or giving up and committing suicide, and not doing that.

That hope that comes from just believing is very powerful, sometimes. And it makes a difference. Is that a "bad thing" because it is illogical? Because you're believing in fairy-tales? Because God was not proven by science? Absolutely not. That additional hope made the difference between you living and you dying, and should be appreciated as such.

The only problem I have is when religious people try to impose their religion on legislature or point fingers at atheist saying how immoral they are and all these things. Otherwise, no problem whatsoever. Also, when religion interferes and sabotages science. That's a big problem as well. Also, when murders and terrible stuff happens because of religion, as a primary factor. You might say "the criminals just throw their reason on religion, but that's not the real reason". Maybe, but without a religion there would be no such "crutches" for terrorists to use. There would be other things that could be debunked/fought with.

"God" is something abstract that you can't fight with. Children are raised from very little and programmed to believe in "God" and they're corrupted indefinitely. That is wrong, and society needs to address it.

3) Toddday's personal attacks on me, from a position of superiority each and every time, are just, I don't know, very disappointing. When you see even smart people resort to these kinds of things, it's disappointing. Furthermore, I'm waiting for the specific parts where
Quote
From what you have posted I can infer that you don't have training in physics or math.

I don't want to hear these general superior accusations "I can tell you're not as educated as my superior self, so I won't even bother to point where you're wrong". Give me specifics.

It's hard for me to understand where this superiority of Toddday's comes from. I could even say you have a insufferable personality, simply because every one of your posts are condescending - you always speak from a very high horse, and are polite only with people that don't challenge you and take everything you say like, excuse the pun, "the word of God". Whenever challenged, you suddenly get on your high horse and speak (write) with this tremendously condescending "tone".

You can make the argument I do the same. Heck, some people here might say I'm more arrogant than you, in certain situations. I hear them and I could even agree with them. But it's pretty obvious (for me, at least, trying to be as objective as I can), who is riding the high horse of self-imposed superiority here.

4) Regarding your apology about what you said about Dawkins - this is not about him, I'm not his advocate. It just seems to me you're using a famous atheist to prove a point about every atheist. That's like me choosing a random guy from the Catholic church and say "he raped 100 kids, this pedophile". When confronted, I'll say "me? I never said anything about Christians! I only meant that guy was a pedophile, that's all!". See how bad this looks?

Sure, you can come in and say "it's similar to what you did with the "monkey" term - you said it was just an insult and it wasn't racist, and so am I here - I'm just talking about his personality from my perspective, there's no projection on his personal life". Yes, you can, I guess.

5) This isn't going anywhere productive. We're just here in a pissing game, trying to show the other guy he's wrong and whatnot. Not a productive discussion. This topic was supposed to be about religion, not about name-calling, insults vs racist terms, Richard Dawkins personality and condescending remarks.

This topic was about religion, and what's bad and what's good about it, from different perspectives. But as always, when the topic is about religion, tempers flare and you get a mockery about the entire subject.

And for that, we're all at fault.

PS. One thing I would like to add, in the end, is that maybe I'm simply fundamentally wrong. Maybe I'm logically wrong with some, heck, with all of my points, and I simply can't see that. That's a possibility. It wouldn't surprise me. My brain is completely fried right now. That's why I've been thinking about suicide in the last 2 years, and wanted to do it several times. Maybe I should do it. I'll get my answer about God quicker, that way. Plus I won't bother nobody anymore. In my current mental state, I feel like I need ~10 years of non-stop rest to recover.

And no, this is not an apology or anything, I'm literally saying what my current state is, I don't expect any answer whatsoever. What I'm saying is that maybe I should just give up on getting into any debates, as maybe my mind is completely blind to logic and common sense and anything else. The only thing that really bothered me wasn't the points themselves, it was that condescending "tone", and as much as my mind is fucked up, I think I'm right at least here. That tone is completely unnecessary. Of course I'm being hypocritical here too, since I sometimes use the same tone and make aggressive remarks, and yeah, I should be called out for that.

If this is true, then I must apologize for my remarks. For everything - the monkey thing, the "Sky-god" thing, everything, other things I've said. Maybe you're right and they're not appropriate, even if my intentions were not the ones received by you. If they genuinely insulted you (not because you "pretended to be insulted", but actually insulted you in a genuine, honest fashion, with no agenda behind that) - then I feel like I should apologize for that. It's something any sensible guy would do, even in my current state of mind.

This reminds me - I was talking to a friend some days ago (yes, I still have friends, one or two) - and I told him that my mind is completely gone. Then I told him "but when you say that to someone, they don't take it seriously. If you attack them or insult them 20 minutes later, they would have completely forgot you told them you're crazy. They would say "this guy is a fucking asshole"". It's always like that.

It doesn't matter. The world will go on regardless.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 07:23:52 am by Raptor »

LBSS

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #129 on: July 22, 2016, 08:34:25 am »
+1
i can't read all that at once, but just on the racism part: raptor, you can't call someone a nigger or a kike or a slope or a wetback in english without it being racist. the term "monkey" in the context of insulting a black person is racist whether you like it or not. just because your intentions in using it are pure as the driven snow doesn't change that fact. you ARE, in fact, responsible for using language that is not offensive to other people. you can't divorce the words you use from their history. i had an gf years ago who was chilean and learning english. she loved the sound of the word "nigger." had to get mad at her to get her to stop using it, because as innocent as she was of its origins, it still has the power to wound and denigrate. the word is important, the word is outside of your head once you say it out loud or write it down.

certain other members of this forum (and god knows millions of people outside it) might whine about political correctness, but i have no sympathy for that point of view. it is not difficult to treat other people with basic respect. what you're doing is stamping your feet and crying that the meanies won't let you call anyone anything you want. same goes for everyone in the "waah the PC police are at it again" crowd. fuck those people, they prefer to maintain their power through the use of casually or aggressively degrading language over learning to treat strangers with basic human respect. fuck their discomfort, fuck their laziness, fuck their power. i say this to you straight white man to straight white man: be better.

you're right, we've gotten off the religion track on here. but it's because you continue to defend using racist speech and that's harder for me to ignore, and more important to talk about, than your rants about the religious beliefs of others.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #130 on: July 22, 2016, 08:40:26 am »
+1
OK, then I won't use terms in the future that might potentially be interpreted as racist, my bad. It's hard to have the same perspective from where I live.

I guess it's the same as when French call Romanians "gypsies", missing the entire point. They think they're synonyms. It's like saying "that Romanian guy made me think of a gypsy". Although that would imply being gypsy is an insult, which is a whole other case of racism in itself.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2016, 08:43:35 am by Raptor »

LBSS

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #131 on: July 22, 2016, 08:46:59 am »
0
OK, then I won't use terms in the future that might potentially be interpreted as racist, my bad. It's hard to have the same perspective from where I live.

I guess it's the same as when French call Romanians "gypsies", missing the entire point. They think they're synonyms. It's like saying "that Romanian guy made me think of a gypsy". Although that would imply being gypsy is an insult, which is a whole other case of racism in itself.

 :highfive: :headbang:
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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Raptor

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #132 on: July 26, 2016, 08:38:25 am »
0
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmzgohHHQh4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmzgohHHQh4</a>

John Stamos

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Re: RELIGION
« Reply #133 on: July 26, 2016, 02:42:20 pm »
0
Raptor, you'd probably enjoy The Amazing Atheist on YouTube. 
Monday
.5 mile run warm up, squat, bench, deadlift
Tuesday
1 mile run, xfit
Wednesday
1 mile run, bodyweight day
Thursday
.5 mile run, db/machines
Friday
1 mile run, xfit
Saturday
1 mile run, bodyweight day.