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Author Topic: One-leg running jump - reactive vs strength jumping  (Read 1091 times)
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Raptor
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« on: August 26, 2010, 03:25:10 am »
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Hello,

I wrote a new article: http://evolutionaryathletics.com/blogs/raptor/2010/08/26/training-for-a-strength-running-jump-vs-training-for-a-reactive-running-jump/
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zgin
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2010, 04:21:49 am »
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awesome article raptor! im definitely the strength jumper with the longer runup. u nailed it though for me with the curve in runup, longer gct, long last step, hip dropping, and  hip rotation.

EDIT- I do wonder why im a strength jumper when i have a low squat (~1.3 bw) and weak lunge (~1.2bw)  my reactivity is good as evidenced by my 8-10 inch gap between svj and rvj and my long runup
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« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2010, 02:24:02 pm »
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Good article   Cheesy I'm definitely a power jumper Sad
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Raptor
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« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2010, 02:33:14 pm »
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A strength guy always has the option, in my opinion, of going for the reactive way of training because he has the strength. It's going to be a period of adaptations where things might suck but well...

One reason, beyond the obvious "this is a new thing", is that maybe the stabilizers and posture are not suited for that kind of jumping because of all the previous programming that basketball has done for a strength guy to jump the way he does.

So I believe it's only a matter of patience and "wanting" to do it.
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adarqui
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2010, 03:08:24 am »
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very nice article.. alot of that stuff you outlined between strength/reactive jumper i agree with..

im definitely a strength jumper..
- long penult + hip drop
- accelerate into jump from ~5 steps

i can't jump at all going a constant speed.. if i'm not accelerating into it, i can't jump.. i have been trying to do that though, working on it.. working on longer run ups too.. when i do longer runups i have a smaller penult, but my jump height suffers.. i just can't transfer it to vertical, i get much more horizontal..

peace
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"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


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lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
Raptor
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2010, 03:46:01 am »
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Yeah well in the past I was definitely a reactive jumper with all that it implies... I was jumping at an established speed with a long run-up at ~7-10 steps I suppose. All I was doing was pre-contract isometrically before my jumping leg was hitting the ground and then just extend at the hip...

I still do some of those things now but it's obviously a strength jump because jumping to a rim, that's higher than you and you need to "reach" towards it makes you become such a jumper.

Quote
i can't jump at all going a constant speed.. if i'm not accelerating into it, i can't jump.. i have been trying to do that though, working on it.. working on longer run ups too.. when i do longer runups i have a smaller penult, but my jump height suffers.. i just can't transfer it to vertical, i get much more horizontal..

You could try what I was suggesting to Nightfly (and what I'm going to do myself): a 5 step acceleration followed by like a 10 step constant speed and a submaximal jump over a low rope (high speed approach). You can also use a sprint into a submax jump. The idea is for the jump to occur at a constant speed so the muscles aren't forced to voluntarily create concentric power, just contract isometrically and absorb the shock.

In time you can get the rope higher as you get more efficient.  One important thing to keep in mind though is that full hip hyperextension should occur (should be the focus of the jump) regardless of the jump height (well, that's important too but not as important as the hip extending properly).
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adarqui
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2010, 03:51:24 am »
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Yeah well in the past I was definitely a reactive jumper with all that it implies... I was jumping at an established speed with a long run-up at ~7-10 steps I suppose. All I was doing was pre-contract isometrically before my jumping leg was hitting the ground and then just extend at the hip...

I still do some of those things now but it's obviously a strength jump because jumping to a rim, that's higher than you and you need to "reach" towards it makes you become such a jumper.

Quote
i can't jump at all going a constant speed.. if i'm not accelerating into it, i can't jump.. i have been trying to do that though, working on it.. working on longer run ups too.. when i do longer runups i have a smaller penult, but my jump height suffers.. i just can't transfer it to vertical, i get much more horizontal..

You could try what I was suggesting to Nightfly (and what I'm going to do myself): a 5 step acceleration followed by like a 10 step constant speed and a submaximal jump over a low rope (high speed approach). You can also use a sprint into a submax jump. The idea is for the jump to occur at a constant speed so the muscles aren't forced to voluntarily create concentric power, just contract isometrically and absorb the shock.

In time you can get the rope higher as you get more efficient.  One important thing to keep in mind though is that full hip hyperextension should occur (should be the focus of the jump) regardless of the jump height (well, that's important too but not as important as the hip extending properly).

ya if you check my journal i actually experienced some full speed jumps the other night.. i ran full speed 20 yard dash then coast for ~2-3 steps, short penn step, and exploded off my right leg with some sick height.. could repeat it with right leg, couldn't do it with my left.. was odd.. i planned on doing it the day i landed those slrvj dunks, but i didn't.. right leg was dead.

but ya i plan on doing what you say, full speed sprint for ~15-20 yards then coast into submax slrvj's.. that's been on my mind for a while i really need to work on that.. even jumping submaximally after such a speed it would be a great stimulus for strength gain in slrvj.

definitely though, i plan on incorporating some of those exercises and trying to make my slrvj bionic.. i'd like to lose a bit more fat though so it takes even less of a toll on me.

peace man
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"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
Raptor
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2010, 05:31:28 am »
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It's strange that your right leg was better... it's usually the first leg you plant in a two-leg jump that's stronger and you have more control onto that, because you also rotate on that leg and therefore it's your "base" leg. The 2nd leg you plant off two feet is your "block" leg which doesn't contribute that much into the jump. I'd say the 2nd leg is more quad involved than anything if you look at the angles.
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adarqui
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2010, 12:44:53 pm »
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It's strange that your right leg was better... it's usually the first leg you plant in a two-leg jump that's stronger and you have more control onto that, because you also rotate on that leg and therefore it's your "base" leg. The 2nd leg you plant off two feet is your "block" leg which doesn't contribute that much into the jump. I'd say the 2nd leg is more quad involved than anything if you look at the angles.

ya it is very odd.. my left leg is still stronger when it comes to runups i can handle, such as in my ~5 step jump.. but it's definitely odd that i can bounce more at very high speed off my right leg.. i think it has something to do with that fact that i can just 'pogo' off my right leg, but when i try to do that with my left, i probably probably automatically don't land straight legged, instead i drop my hips a bit and mimic my L-SLRVJ from 5 steps, so i probably collapse because of that.. thinking back now that probably has alot to do with it.. right leg can pogo at high speed, but i can't "strength jump" with it from ~5 steps.

peace
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http://adarq.org/code/

"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
Raptor
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 02:10:31 pm »
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That might as well be the thing. It's also probably loading different, but I think you nailed it. Interesting adaptations occur over time...
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Dreyth
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2010, 08:49:31 am »
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I'm a one-footed strength jumper. I jump while accelerating (never thought about that!) and I also scrape my right foot and swing it up.

However, my RVJ is like 6-7 inches higher than my standing. Maybe this is why my squat transfers so nicely into my SLVJ.
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2010, 10:04:16 am »
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Yeah it might be. I think those that scrape the ground with their non-jumping foot load the quads more, while those who come with the heel to the butt before the jump load the hips more, because the center of gravity is higher and closer to the hips, and they benefit from a longer lever to jump off.
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