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Author Topic: Adding muscle while losing fat  (Read 812 times)
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adarqui
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« on: November 23, 2010, 01:44:16 pm »
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created this thread to post the responses I deleted from the q&a, sorry vag/lbss lolol.. we made some rules for that subforum just so threads can stay short & sweet there.


Quote from: LBSS on November 23, 2010, 12:24:24 pm
Quote from: Raptor on November 23, 2010, 10:54:43 am
Oh, I was also wondering this: if you eat a caloric deficit, yet a great amount of protein, can't it happen that you lose weight and build muscle at the same time? So body re-composition is happening? I mean, it would make sense, probably the weights on the bar would not increase but if they stay the same and the bodyweight is going down, then the relative strength increases so that's a gain in itself I guess.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html






Quote from: vag on November 23, 2010, 12:39:32 pm
Quote from: LBSS on November 23, 2010, 12:24:24 pm
Quote from: Raptor on November 23, 2010, 10:54:43 am
Oh, I was also wondering this: if you eat a caloric deficit, yet a great amount of protein, can't it happen that you lose weight and build muscle at the same time? So body re-composition is happening? I mean, it would make sense, probably the weights on the bar would not increase but if they stay the same and the bodyweight is going down, then the relative strength increases so that's a gain in itself I guess.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html

Also:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/kelly3.htm
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« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 06:13:32 am »
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John Kiefer has some good articles about that topic
http://articles.elitefts.com/author/john-kiefer/
http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/

This article of John Berardi shows how it works
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/new_view.htm

staying low calorie/low carb until workout and then high calorie/"high" carb in the PWOperiod works great for me to add muscle and maintain or lose bodyfat
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« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2010, 10:56:03 am »
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Quote from: Damien on November 28, 2010, 06:13:32 am
John Kiefer has some good articles about that topic
http://articles.elitefts.com/author/john-kiefer/
http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/

This article of John Berardi shows how it works
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/new_view.htm

staying low calorie/low carb until workout and then high calorie/"high" carb in the PWOperiod works great for me to add muscle and maintain or lose bodyfat

Yeah that's what I'm currently doing.
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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2010, 06:43:26 pm »
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I find all the low/carb high carb cycling stuff a little brosciency.

http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2010/11/overfeeding-reduces-insulin-resistance.html

Then look up RRARF. Little different approach
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2010, 11:01:35 am »
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Certainly a decent degree of broscience in that article.  These things he lists:

 
Quote
underfeeding made the men ravenously hungry, store fat at an incredible rate – particularly in the abdominal region indicative of insulin resistance, without building back muscle tissue,


Are actually symptoms of extreme insulin sensitivity.

One also should differentiate between hyperinsulinemia and insulin clearance.  At low body-fat levels the early phase insulin release is heightened, as insulin is a storage hormone the body tries to store every morsel. It tends to make people hypoglycemic and hypoglycemia is a symptom of being overly insulin sensitive and is extremely predictive of weight gain. The most insulin sensitive people you'll find are people that have been on extreme diets (bodybuilders/figure competitors).  In any given group of people the primary indicator of insulin sensitivity (besides genetics) is body-fat level.  In other words, if you have a group of 100 people at 10% bodyfat and antoher group of 100 people at 15% bodyfat the group at 10% will be more insulin sensitive than the other group.   Is stuffing yourself til your full 6 times per day more likely to make you gain weight or lose weight? 

Certainly eating healthy non processed high fiber foods is better than eating crap and that's primarily what these people are doing.   
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joejoe22
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2010, 08:04:43 pm »
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Is dietary cycling and periodization out of fashion now?  I've always been a big believer in the statement that  nutrition should be like your training program.  Meaning it should be phased and there should be a reason and a strategy to how you eat.  I mean, you wouldn't train ME every single day, so why would you eat low carb/high protein or whatever all the time? 
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« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2010, 08:09:33 pm »
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Quote from: joejoe22 on December 20, 2010, 08:04:43 pm
Is dietary cycling and periodization out of fashion now?  I've always been a big believer in the statement that  nutrition should be like your training program.  Meaning it should be phased and there should be a reason and a strategy to how you eat.  I mean, you wouldn't train ME every single day, so why would you eat low carb/high protein or whatever all the time? 

Just wondering, How did you get so knowledgable about training? Did you get a degree or something mang?

I read your journal bio, but can't remember how you learned so much lol(btw your journal bio is EPIC mate!)
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joejoe22
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« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2010, 08:40:23 pm »
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ha, nope, I'm a structural engineer.  I was an Active Army Officer and I was in charge of Ranger and Sapper training for new Army officers.  I had to research a lot of stuff about physical fitness and nutrition.  I also got to go to a lot of seminars like crossfit, army combatives, endurance training and nutrition, etc.

Anyhow, long story short, I'm just like everyone here I suspect.  Found somebody that knows their ish (ADARQ, Lance, Kingfish, etc) and listen to what they say. 
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 12:05:54 am »
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nice joejoe22!!

anyway, My only way that I would gain muscle while losing fat would be to lift heavy and do a hardcore sprinting routine(ain't this what I already do!?!?!?) I would just counter by eating a high amount of protein(as much possible) and get just enough carbs to keep strength gains and eneregy( i don't know how much this is)

^^disclaimer, I could not do the following because i live in a family and don't buy my own food..I may not get enough protein and carbs..but that is what i would do at optimal enviroment

not an expert, just giving an outsider's idea

point of disclaimer, make sure adarq can't make call em' out on me lol, he on a rampage!!!!!!!
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« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2010, 02:46:25 am »
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in the John Berardi article i noticed in case 2,

Beginner Weight Lifter; Male — 23y

Client Information from August 2003:
5’6" ; 180lb ; 30% fat
(126lb lean, 54lbs fat)

Client Information from October 2003:
5’6" ; 173lb ; 20% body fat
(138.5lb lean, 34.5lbs fat)

Net result — 8 weeks:
7lb weight loss; -19.5lb fat, +12.5lb lean

and case 3,

Mixed Martial Arts Trainer; Male — 35y

Client Information from June 2004:
5’10" ; 179lb ; 19% fat
(148.6lb lean, 30.4lbs fat)

Client Information from August 2004:
5’10" ; 187lb ; 9% body fat
(170.2lb lean, 16.8lbs fat)

Net results — 8 weeks:
8lb weight gain; -13.6 lb fat, +21.6 lb

lean muscle gain of 6+lbs per month for case 2 and 10.5+lbs per month for case 3.  are these numbers accurate you think?  i thought i've read usually one can only expect about 1.5-2 lbs of lean muscle gain per month would be pretty good already...  it does seem like these case study guys are working really hard dairly though...
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« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 03:31:37 pm »
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Quote from: joejoe22 on December 20, 2010, 08:04:43 pm
Is dietary cycling and periodization out of fashion now?  I've always been a big believer in the statement that  nutrition should be like your training program.  Meaning it should be phased and there should be a reason and a strategy to how you eat.  I mean, you wouldn't train ME every single day, so why would you eat low carb/high protein or whatever all the time? 

agree with pretty much what you said since i've heard quite a few people (can't remember which articles/references) talk about how humans can build strength AND lose fat at the same time but only in phases throughout the year although not sure about muscle

*alex maroko talked about this too but then again, its alex maroko prob was trying to sell something
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