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glad that worked/works for you but i like to keep it real simple with performance nutrition, plus i'm not the biggest biotest fan :/

I mean, currently i'm on absolutely no supplements, but if I was or was to recommend anything, it would be:
- clean diet (lots of veggies/chicken/lean meats/fruit)
- protein shake in the morning
- protein shake 1-1.5 hours prior to lifting
- protein shake right after lifting
- big meal ~1 hour after lifting
- zig zagging carb intake

protein shakes for me, are simple: whey + whole milk OR whey + propel packet + gatoraid powder.. as for direct ratio of protei/carb, I like the 1:3 protein/carb rule..

I think alot of that advanced supplementation is pretty overrated, but that's just me..




My current "workout nutrition" protocol, on a normal training day (not trying to peak vert)..
- wakeup: whole milk + bananas
- a bit after waking up: stir fry + protein source + whole milk  OR  rice & beans + protein source + whole milk
- 1 hour pre-workout: whole milk + banana
- workout: 1-3 hours, no water, no nutrients
- ~15 minutes after workout: ~3-4 glasses of whole milk
- ~1 hour after workout: ~2 glasses of milk, 5-7 bananas, sandwhich

lol

peace

Wouldn't take chocolate milk post workout, loaded with HFCS. In fact i wouldn't take any simple carbs post workout at all due to the release of catecholamines that counteract the insulin response, so having a but load of simple carbs would more likely be stored in the liver and the remainder as fat. Plus it isn't about how much carbs and protein its about what types of protein and carbs ingested. You want fast acting protein and carbs. Surge has whey hydrosolite which is much faster acting than casein found in milk. Surge also contains maltodextrin an dextrose which is much faster replenishing glycogen stores than lactose found in milk. Also Surge contains 13g of BCAA's and Leucine. Not saying that Surge is the best product you can buy but i like biotest, certainly worked form me.  IMO carbs are better taking pre workout but if you had to take them post workout then a simple dextrose or maltodextrin powder mixed with whey is much better than chocolate milk. And when your goal is to put as much size and increase strength as quick as possible why not take some supplements that would make it a little easier, certainly beats eating 5,000+kcals a day in clean food.

No insult intended, I just find it funny that anyone has bought Surge. If you want to keep funneling cash to those shysters, knock yourself out. I'll stick with my chocolate milk mixed with whey concentrate.

W/r/t HFCS, also see:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/straight-talk-about-high-fructose-corn-syrup-what-it-is-and-what-it-aint-research-review.html

and

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/a-primer-on-dietary-carbohydrates-part-1.html

 I just came across this thread and wanted to add a little to what has been said.  First of all, milk contains whey proteins as well as casein so it technically has both slow release and quick release properties.  That being said, I have found hydrolysates to be worth the hype for pre and post workout supplementation.  I was very skeptical at first as well but gave it a shot (nothing from biotest, GNC brand "Extreme 60" and Optimum nutritions "Hydro whey".  Myself as well as several clients have noticed a significant difference in recovery, especially when training multiple times daily.  The importance of pre and post workout protein intake is significantly higher when training specifically for hypertrophy vs jump and speed training.  Alot of the TNation info is exaggerated due to the use of anabolics which raise protein synthesis levels by a massive amount (one of the main reasons they work), so the reccomendations could be toned down alot for us natural trainees as much of the excess protein would essentially be wasted with us and they would likely be able to absorb a much larger amount.  I agree that biotest seems to put out some very suspect products and I have never used their stuff as it is grossly overpriced and other companies make similar products for much more reasonable amounts.  But anyway, yea the hydrolysate is actually very effective and worth looking into imo.  Also carbs taken post workout are much more important for people training more than once a day as they have a reason to race to get glycogen levels back up.  Typical once a day athletes have plenty of time to replinish it through whole meals later in the day.

I bash Biotest because they're shysters. Because they make bullshit up -- lie, in other words -- to sell their insanely overpriced, unnecessary products. Fuck them.

BTW is biostest surge or whateva just a pre-workout pump/ingnitior???