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Question: Are kneeling exercises worth performing for vert/explosiveness?
yes
no

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Author Topic: POLL! Kneeling exercises for vert?  (Read 1996 times)
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adarqui
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« on: February 09, 2010, 03:03:22 am »
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Coach Louie Simmons & other WSB coaches/followers are promoting the hell out of kneeling box jumps and kneeling olympic lifts.

In the video below, Louie Simmons is promoting these exercises for their positive effects on vert / jumpers.

http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFit_WestsideBarbell_KneeSnatching.wmv

What do you guys think?

Submit your vote in the poll and drop a reply below.

-- adarq


some other videos:

kneeling snatch:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0dh0SD8S90" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0dh0SD8S90</a>

kneeling box jump:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OICgdYqQOVE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OICgdYqQOVE</a>

kneeling power clean:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p7CJu0p45g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p7CJu0p45g</a>



not to mention the horrible variations:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0pTNIU9y4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh0pTNIU9y4</a>
« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 04:07:31 pm by adarqui » Logged

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"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
adarqui
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2010, 03:07:27 am »
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Ok so here's my quick opinion:

Kneeling exercises, such as kneeling box jumps, kneeling cleans, and kneeling snatches might provide some benefit in improving the olympic lifts. They definitely would be good at teaching the body to catch cleans/snatches in a deep squat position.

These kneeling exercises also provide a nice REA (reactive) or ADA (altitude drop) effect, since you are exploding out of the kneeling position, getting a bit airborne, and dropping into position. The kneeling box jumps are mostly of the REA form, while the kneeling snatches/cleans are in the ADA form.

However, the REA effect of a kneeling box jump just doesn't seem to intense, considering the freefall is small, and the weight to overcome (bodyweight + low KE) is small. For example, there is absolutely no comparison between a depth jump from 18+ inches and a kneeling box jump. The amount of force needed to overcome the freefall in a depth jump is much greater than that of a kneeling box jump, this leads to a greater training effect.

The ADA effect of the kneeling snatch/clean is also much lower than that experienced in a depth jump, depth drop, or REA squat. Taking this into account, with the fact that most athletes won't ever work up to any impressive poundages with these lifts, and you have a recipe for waste-of-time.

So, due to the above points I made, I conclude these exercises are a waste of time for improving SVJ/RVJ (standing vertical jump/running vertical jump). Instead, they may be beneficial for learning how to catch a clean or snatch in a deep squat position. Besides that, these exercises could be used as boredom busters or to impress women at your local crossfit pukefest.

adarq's verdict: WASTE OF TIME FOR VERT.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2010, 03:25:03 am by adarqui » Logged

http://adarq.org/code/

"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
ARowe
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2010, 05:18:50 pm »
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I don't get the kneeling box jump. I thought the point was to go from knees to box... not knees>feet>box.

Yeah, looks stupid. You don't jump from your knees... unless you're a bitch. haha  Wink
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Stats as of October 15, 2010
age: 20
weight: ~153 lbs
height: 5'7", 5'8" with shoes
reach: 7'5.5" in shoes
svj: 30 (vertec)
rvj: 35 (vertec) ~36 (dunk)
full squat 1rm: 315 (msem) ~325 (estimate)
adarqui
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« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2010, 07:21:12 pm »
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I don't get the kneeling box jump. I thought the point was to go from knees to box... not knees>feet>box.

Yeah, looks stupid. You don't jump from your knees... unless you're a bitch. haha  Wink

i havn't seen many vids of people going from knees -> box, i'd imagine it would be very low boxes, <12".

if you can find me a knee -> box jump of 48" ill poop my pants.

ya i don't get them.

btw, next time add a vote to the poll, louie simmons is going to come on here and wreck me.
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http://adarq.org/code/

"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2010, 11:35:41 am »
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Kneeling power clean is ever sillier. Almost all upperbody and great injury possibility (in the last movie).
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adarqui
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 01:21:28 pm »
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Kneeling power clean is ever sillier. Almost all upperbody and great injury possibility (in the last movie).

ya i don't get it, but the entire 'industry' seems to love this stuff now.
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http://adarq.org/code/

"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 02:09:08 pm »
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Well it's a "way" to "isolate" the hip extension and perform it "powerfully". Since when have we started isolating stuff for athletics?

Anyway, I think they'd be better of with hip thrusts.
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adarqui
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 02:24:28 pm »
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Well it's a "way" to "isolate" the hip extension and perform it "powerfully". Since when have we started isolating stuff for athletics?

Anyway, I think they'd be better of with hip thrusts.

i don't recall elite oly lifter's ever doing this stuff either.. when i look at china/polish/bulgarian weightlifting training tapes, I've yet to see any kneeling variations of oly's.. am I wrong here? has anyone seen national teams incorporating kneeling variations heavily?

tychver? anyone? hehe

it's kind of like schroeder saying he saw elite weightlifting teams performing iso's all day long...
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http://adarq.org/code/

"Now Cornell University neurobiologists, studying the adrenal glands of rats, have discovered how chronic stress cranks up the intensity of this adrenaline response. The key to this so-called molecular memory resides in a donut-shaped protein on the surface of cells that secrete adrenaline, the hormone also known as epinephrine."

PED's in drug free sports is cheating, unethical, and weak. Athletes and/or coaches who condone/display this behavior can get lost.


"But you have never felt the burn that you get in the hip flexors from pulling back on the pedal stroke, you have never done the exercise in your life. Squatting ain't doing shit for your hip flexors blu." -- sickenin vendetta.

QuickMix: Gulf Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PHyFdbJnrY&hd=1

The Promise Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5VRE0lOXU&hd=1

Ballet Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI_c2dz0C_4&hd=1

BoingTerd Dunk Session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6mHaUoNpOg&hd=1

Dunk Films: dunk=surfing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAp_z9fVyMQ

May 2011 Dunk Mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7MYrl716-k

May13-2011 Nice dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73BhhFenp7o&feature=player_embedded

APRIL 2011 DUNK RECAP/MIX: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuPS1Sm10ds

Some hard freakin` dunks: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nukAo_IizA , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU7URZQ3Y4U , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMQo64DzV70

WHO RUN IT DUNK MIX - PART 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xypWSL5YVEw

adarq.org commercial #2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBYlngDcxFY = if at first you don't succeed, AMP THE F UP & TRY AGAIN.

lion swag dunk mix: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhyqcL4fO-g

misc dunk footage from 2/20/2011, gettin` up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhF8F43z5Og

end of 2010 dunk session: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2fwJ8e5Vs8

The "I think i'm dying dunk mix" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXkdX5QLNo
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