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D-Rose Jr
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« on: June 26, 2011, 06:46:05 pm »
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I see that everyone has jump sessions. I have never really went and had a session like this. How should I go about this?

How many reps?
Do i do it on off days or on lower body days?
When do i know to stop?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 11:27:01 am by D-Rose Jr » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2011, 03:07:52 pm »
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Quote from: D-Rose Jr on June 26, 2011, 06:46:05 pm
I see that everyone has jump sessions. I have never really went and had a session like this. How should I go about this?

How many reps?

depends on your abilities so... can't just give you a ballpark figure. However, you'd like to get in around ~15 max jumps at least.



Quote
Do i do it on off days or on lower body days?

either of these:
1. on off days
2. higher volume of jumps session separate from low body
3. low volume jumping right before low body


Quote
When do i know to stop?

in general, when you feel like stopping... once you feel as if you don't want to jump anymore, that's usually a good sign.. that'll come when your jumps start sucking too, so it'll be obvious.

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Joel Smith
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2011, 10:11:21 am »
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Hey, I was just about to post about this.... I have begun to start the idea of having a certain amount of "extra jumps" in my workouts each week, and I think I am going to start with a 5lb weight vest.  I already do a really good amount of plyos, and intense ones at that, but I am so good at plyos in comparison to my actual jumps... I need to get on the motor pattern of jumping. 

Personally I think the best time to implement extra jumps is outside of your workouts, the more time you can put between all your workouts the better. 

I am going to personally start at 20 or so extra jumps a week off two legs, and play with things from there.  Anyone else have any thoughts or experience with this type of thing?  Honestly, one of the big mistakes I have made over the years is just not jumping enough during the week. 

I posted a video on youtube recently advocating practicing max vertical jumps on top of your workouts every week or two, but it really should be done more than once a week I am really starting to think.  I might have to delete that video, plus I look like a tool with my black eye.

A Russian high jump coach I have been talking to who worked with the 2000 olympic champion klyugin and jumped 7'6.5 himself back in the day.... they did an unreal amount of total jumping volume in their workouts, would make most of our CNS's burn up in a couple days, although they had worked up to that work capacity and were probably on some PED's. 

Looking forward to thoughts and discussion.  Also a random thought, what if you gave some of the TFB guys weight vests and had them just do their typical dunk workouts in 5-10lb vests for a couple weeks? A couple hundred dunk attempts in a light vest would probably guarantee some results.  , think of Golden Child with even 2-3 more inches on his jump, haha. 
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steven-miller
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2011, 12:01:15 pm »
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@D-Rose: A good way to do some extra jump work during the week without devoting too much extra time / extra work-outs in is to do complexes with explosive lifts and sometimes even strength lifts, probably depending on the training phase. Lance had me doing it the last two weeks and I liked it a lot in complex with powercleans, jumpsnatches and half-squats. For example: 1 set of 3 reps in jumpsnatch, 1 minute rest, 3 vertical jumps, rest 5-10 minutes and do the next set of jumpsnatches etc. The jumping does not hurt the lifts at all, at most it limits the total volume of lifting slightly, but you go into the lifting set fully rested, so intensity can still be high.
For pure jumping / plyo sessions some form of structure can help as well. I used to just go and do a number of single jumps until a significant drop-off happened. An alternative I learned is doing a series with X jumps, with ~45 sec rest between reps, which is plenty. It primarily helps to stay focused, warmed-up and activated between attempts and gives the session a structure that I felt was lacking at least in my former sessions. You could also structure it in sets and reps, for example do a set of 3 with timed rests, regenerate, do the next set. Then move on to drops, bounds or other stuff. Keeping it nice and short probably helps a lot with fatigue management as well.
Just some ideas to try...

@Joel: Have you ever had substantial success with training with a weight-vest? I would imagine that for example a 5 lbs vest was just annoying and not really adding much resistance. Don't know, maybe I should try it.
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2011, 12:09:12 pm »
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Quote from: steven-miller on July 05, 2011, 12:01:15 pm
@Joel: Have you ever had substantial success with training with a weight-vest? I would imagine that for example a 5 lbs vest was just annoying and not really adding much resistance. Don't know, maybe I should try it.

I personally had a lot of success with a weight vest while doing Joel's program in 2009. It really did it's magic. It doesn't make sense when you think about it, I was just doing some bad form bounds and stuff like that once per week with a weight vest but still it was great.

I think the harder overload in THAT particular jump does it's trick on the CNS level, although you can make an argument about depth jumps doing the same thing.
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Joel Smith
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2011, 03:52:25 pm »
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I heard of a study somewhere that found athletes got statistically significant potentiation gains by warming up with a weight vest that was equal to 2 or 3% of their body weight and that heavier weight vests did not help.  Not that we are talking about potentiation, but training effect.  Either way, I think that just adding a few more pounds than bodyweight can go a long way, especially because technique is not drastically altered.  

Charlie Francis says not to let sprint sled training reduce your top speed by more than 10% and though jumping is more force/less technique oriented, I think it maybe good to spend time with lighter vests than typically advocated.

In the past I have usually done bounding with vests between 8 and 15lbs.  I tend to only use them for endurance bounding type work, just because I leave the overload in single response activities such as depth jumps to the increased height of the box.  I do think vests have helped me with the bounding in the past, I noticed good results coming off of vest-reliant cycles, but I haven't done anything like what I am about to start, which is about 20 max jumps in a weight vest outside my ordinary sessions each week.  I'll probably keep the weight around 10lbs.  
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D-Rose Jr
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2011, 05:39:17 pm »
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Quote from: steven-miller on July 05, 2011, 12:01:15 pm
@D-Rose: A good way to do some extra jump work during the week without devoting too much extra time / extra work-outs in is to do complexes with explosive lifts and sometimes even strength lifts, probably depending on the training phase. Lance had me doing it the last two weeks and I liked it a lot in complex with powercleans, jumpsnatches and half-squats. For example: 1 set of 3 reps in jumpsnatch, 1 minute rest, 3 vertical jumps, rest 5-10 minutes and do the next set of jumpsnatches etc. The jumping does not hurt the lifts at all, at most it limits the total volume of lifting slightly, but you go into the lifting set fully rested, so intensity can still be high.
For pure jumping / plyo sessions some form of structure can help as well. I used to just go and do a number of single jumps until a significant drop-off happened. An alternative I learned is doing a series with X jumps, with ~45 sec rest between reps, which is plenty. It primarily helps to stay focused, warmed-up and activated between attempts and gives the session a structure that I felt was lacking at least in my former sessions. You could also structure it in sets and reps, for example do a set of 3 with timed rests, regenerate, do the next set. Then move on to drops, bounds or other stuff. Keeping it nice and short probably helps a lot with fatigue management as well.
Just some ideas to try...

I have started just getting in about 80% jumps everytime I play basketball. Between plays I usually just try to grab rim off a run. I am 5'8 with a 88-90 inch reach, and I think by being about 2-4 inches away that puts me about high 20's low 30's. What I don't get is that I max squat 230x1 and rep 215x5 at 135 which is about 1.6-1.7 x BW Shouldn't my jumps be a little higher?
It is not like I am double leg jumper. I jump about 3 inches higher off my right foot than off two feet and I jump like 22 standing and 22 off my left foot. I think the left foot is just practice. I am just kind of confused here
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