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Performance Area => Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros => Topic started by: mike.1283 on September 13, 2010, 05:08:21 am
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Ankle issues - my ankle still hasn't fully healed up after about 2 months, and I am asking for anyone's opinion if they know what is going on with it - when I rub ice over the area of the ATFL (Ligament) or just run my finger over the area I get a tingling down into my last 2 toes which makes me believe there's an issue with the nerve, anyone ever hear of this? Something that will go away on its own? Because when I'm doing anything explosive I still tend to get what feels like a "cramp" (even tho ligaments don't really cramp) occasionally, and I'm surprised it hasn't gotten completely better by now.
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Ankle issues - my ankle still hasn't fully healed up after about 2 months, and I am asking for anyone's opinion if they know what is going on with it - when I rub ice over the area of the ATFL (Ligament) or just run my finger over the area I get a tingling down into my last 2 toes which makes me believe there's an issue with the nerve, anyone ever hear of this? Something that will go away on its own? Because when I'm doing anything explosive I still tend to get what feels like a "cramp" (even tho ligaments don't really cramp) occasionally, and I'm surprised it hasn't gotten completely better by now.
REST REST REST REST REST REST REST REST REST REST
You shouldn't do anything explosive until the ankle is stable again and if you're still having issues after two months, believe me, it's not stable. You'll start compensating with your knee, and your knee isn't meant to do what your ankle does. That will lead to pain.
So work on stability and strengthening now. It takes time, be patient and you won't be as likely to fuck it up again like I have (four times).
If you want help with exercises and such, let me know. I'm not as good as seeing an actual PT (obviously) but I have craploads of personal experience with ankle rehab.
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Thanks, yeah I've been trying to ice it like crazy and I went through a stint of physical therapy and in the past I've been pretty good with rehab, I myself am a trainer and have sprained my ankles many times before (most recent bad 1 before this had been 2 yrs tho an all time high for me) and I am trying to build the strength back up, and I'm being requested by co-workers to run a 5K in October, but any advice would be cool.
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It's been about 3 1/2 months for me and I don't know if icing will help, you should do those ankle strengthening exercises if you're doctor recommended any to you. Right now it's about to be there, I just can't squat with it or bound with it yet. For some reason it doesn't seem to be very flexible because when I squat, my left leg will go down on its heels and the right (injured) will stay on the balls of my feet if there's too much weight or I'm going really fast.
Those cramps will be there for a while still, just rest and I think it will be fine.
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find a local Traditional Chinese Martial arts place in your local area. they ought to be able to recommend someone to "work" on your ankle. usually the massage will be a bit painful but it will help you heal.
i had a "mid-level" sprain in June and i was playing ball again after 2 (pretty damn painful) sessions after 1 week. had i just do the typical RICE routine that would've been at least a 2-3 month recovery minimum and it probably wouldn't have been 100%.
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"In your case I would suspect a subluxation of the talus, calcaneus, and/or the cuboid especially if you experienced an inversion ankle sprain. Your chiropractic physician can evaluate you for this and also to check the integrity of the anterior talofibular, talocalcaneal, calcaneucuboid, and calcaneofibular ligaments to see if they are holding the rear foot stable. It is also possible that you have sinus tarsus syndrome - again, your health care practitioner can help you determine that. Branches of the peroneal nerve (fibular nerve) innervate the dorsal and lateral aspects of the foot so you may have irritation to this nerve if you are experiencing nerve pain in your foot. The last thing I would consider are the muscles that attach and control the lateral aspects of your ankle-foot complex, especially the peroneus tertius, brevis, and longus. These muscles become inhibited by acute or chronic ankle sprains and edema so be sure these are evaluated by your health care provider otherwise your ankle will remain unstable and vulnerable to lateral and supinatory motions of the ankle-foot complex"
So I'm finding out that this COULD be what is going on with my ankle, I certainly don't know this for certain in the least bit and I'm trying to get a time to get my ankle evaluated by a Dr, or even a PT. So the reason I'm posting this here, is I'm trying to really break the above quote down (originally from PT on the net) and figure out what it all means. A lot of it I know, and the rest I can take a really eduacted guess at, but I want to know for certain.
Also by looking online it seems like treatment can range from Physical Therapy and a Cast for a few weeks to months to all the way up to surgery, which looks like it would put me out for about 6 months, anyone have any input at all? Just trying to research this and all my options.
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did you try to find a TCM practitioner like i suggested? you also didn't specify how you injured your ankle in the first place. which direction did you roll it, and was it after jumping or just a mis-step?
TCM is one of the best way. there a many foreign basketball players in Taiwan whom I've introduced them to TCM treatment after they sprain their ankle and they all universally praise the significantly reduced recovery time. the last thing you want to do is put it in a cast. that's going to do nothing for your recovery except extending the length of time greatly.
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did you try to find a TCM practitioner like i suggested? you also didn't specify how you injured your ankle in the first place. which direction did you roll it, and was it after jumping or just a mis-step?
TCM is one of the best way. there a many foreign basketball players in Taiwan whom I've introduced them to TCM treatment after they sprain their ankle and they all universally praise the significantly reduced recovery time. the last thing you want to do is put it in a cast. that's going to do nothing for your recovery except extending the length of time greatly.
I actually didn't even look into the tradional chinese massage, but I just had another X-ray Thursday and an MRI today (Saturday) after seeing a Sports Med Dr, I should have the results for it on Tuesday. I landed on somebody's foot and rolled it, which strained the ATFL and other ligaments, from what I originally heard. Its been 5 months now also.
I also just found another site called TPtherapy.com for Trigger Point therapy they have tools similar to foam rollers that look like they may help. I'm thinking about buying something from them, or asking around to see if anyone has used them and had success with their products.
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Figured I'd mention it here since I've already mentioned it everywhere else, I got my results and I have torn cartildge in my ankle, Dr said I have a "pot hole" in my ankle, I'm going to need to see a foot/ankle specialist.
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Figured I'd mention it here since I've already mentioned it everywhere else, I got my results and I have torn cartildge in my ankle, Dr said I have a "pot hole" in my ankle, I'm going to need to see a foot/ankle specialist.
damn that sucks man :/ keep us posted on what foot/ankle specialist says, stay focused.
peace man
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Hi
I've the same problem, for almost 6 mths liao... Been to a couple of seh sei...Seen a total of prob 30 - 40 times liao bah...
X-ray done, nothing broke or fracture...Cn understand the frustration. Now am contemplating if I shld go for MRI... Sigh...Perhaps I shld...
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I ended up doing a lot of research on the issue before I finally went back to the Dr and went for an MRI, and not just on forums, I was talking to a lot of my collegeau's and asking around, and everyone seemed to say just get an MRI to be certain.
Try to get an MRI, I was dissapointed when I found out the results, but its so much better than having the pain linger and not knowing what's causing it. Just my opinion. I now have to wait 2 more weeks to meet with a "specialist" and then he'll probably (my opinion and guess) refer me for some surgery OR tell me its not bad enough to justify surgery lets go with cortizone shots/PT/ OR some other cartildge shots, which to me will be ok, but it will just serve as a way to "cover" the issue at hand, but maybe its a better option than the scope.
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hmm, u are 'disappointed' with the results? meaning?
i went polyclinic to get referral. said need to see specialist 1st who recommend if MRI is necessary. & the appointm is in Jan! Biang! Am going to call to see if can get an earlier date...
wher did u tk ur MRI? follow up @ the same place? how much was ur MRI?
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Sorry for delayed response, I am dissapointed in the fact to find out there is true structural damage to the ankle and possibly ending in surgery of some sorts (looking online there are recommendations from scope, all the way to microfracture and 1 year off my feet). Most of the things I've read sound like my ankle may not ever be 100% again.
I can't speak for how much the MRI cost, because some of it was covered by my health insurance, and so far I haven't got any bill for it, but I'm sure I will get some bill. Also it helps that under the State of MA with the State Health Insurance, which I was being covered by under being "unemployed" (only working part time), and in which they cover most of my costs.
I took my MRI at some random "imaging" place, and then the Sports Med Dr left me a voicemail with the results.
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
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FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
For which part of that. Since I found out my MRI results my Health Insurance changed and the Sports Med Dr and the "specialist" I was supposed to be seeing this coming Monday (but I have work) aren't covered by my new insurance. Therefore chaces are that I'll hafta find a new Primary Care and I'll be forced to go to him to get my ankle evaluated and sent for another eval by Sports Med Dr, and then eventually sent to another "specialist" (just assuming that my MRI won't be read by new Dr and I'll need referrals to see specialists.) And from there 6 months later I may actually be able to be get something done for my ankle. All the while not bein able to train the way I'd like hence gaining more weight (fat and I'm training bodybuilder style which is easy for me) not playing much basketball or getting much cardio, that's my F*ck me sideways. I'm pissed.
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I just mentioned under my make-shift journal (under the graveyards and quitters), that I'm going to be looking into and trying a more "homeopathic" route for my ankle since its going to be quite some time before I get to meet with a specialist (work schedule and insurance plan). I was talking with a massage therapist at 1 of the gyms, and I was asking his opinion, and he told me use iodine (apparently there's 2 kinds/colors) and make a "weave" using Q-Tips (of the iodine's if its not implied) over the ankle over the tendons and ligaments around the area affected. Do that and also he mentioned taking fish oil, and I on my own started taking some glucosamine, and I'm also going to start trying contrast baths for my ankle (going from hot to ice cold), just to see what happens, because I figure I can't make it any worse, so maybe this will help it a little bit.
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yea let us know how that goes man, i got a similar thing with my ankle. I've been taking 6g fish oil for a little bit and it does seem to really help with acute injuries and keeping that inflammation down.
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1st off what'd u do to your ankle? And 2nd I know there are a lot of different supps u can take to "lubricate" joints for people who have arthritis, like the fish oil, glucosamine, MSM, so I want to give that a try I'm just trying to do at least a little bit of research on it 1st (meaning beyond the fish oil and glucosamine, I've heard about those from a lot of different people and heard good reviews about them also.) I am also going to try and at least set up an appt with some form of specialist and if it wouldn't be a while then see if I could have my Primary Care offer me some physical therapy (and if my insurance will cover it).
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no idea, like light ankle sprain about 9 months ago sicne then it has never healed fullly, i get pain when dorsiflex it a certain amount or invert it past a certain point.
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no idea, like light ankle sprain about 9 months ago sicne then it has never healed fullly, i get pain when dorsiflex it a certain amount or invert it past a certain point.
is the pain you feel when in dorsiflexion at the top of your foot....near the start of your leg...cant explain...say L is your leg the pain is felt on the inside of the right angle of the L? dont know if that made sense?
i have this when i dorsiflex too much now due to my ankle injury(dislocation), basically its damage to anterior of the ankle/tallus which is jamming up my ROM in dorsiflexion...its not too bad i can squat/jump/run pain free mostly but at first it was bad....he suggested heel pads for a few weeks to reduce the amount of dorsiflexion so further damage didnt occur...and then the pain had mostly gone after this.
sorry if this is completely off topic to your injury i just read the last post and it sounds similar to what i had/have
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no idea, like light ankle sprain about 9 months ago sicne then it has never healed fullly, i get pain when dorsiflex it a certain amount or invert it past a certain point.
Really can't help too much, the ankle is prob the only bodypart that I can't diagnose somewhat accurately, if I had to guess at this point I'd say 1 of those "itis's" but yeah mine was about 7 months ago at this point, and I honestly have no clue what to do about mine, and the more I learn about it the more confused I get.
is the pain you feel when in dorsiflexion at the top of your foot....near the start of your leg...cant explain...say L is your leg the pain is felt on the inside of the right angle of the L? dont know if that made sense?
i have this when i dorsiflex too much now due to my ankle injury(dislocation), basically its damage to anterior of the ankle/tallus which is jamming up my ROM in dorsiflexion...its not too bad i can squat/jump/run pain free mostly but at first it was bad....he suggested heel pads for a few weeks to reduce the amount of dorsiflexion so further damage didnt occur...and then the pain had mostly gone after this.
sorry if this is completely off topic to your injury i just read the last post and it sounds similar to what i had/have
I been there done that for years I dealt with it after really bad Phys Therapy, had tons and tons of PTs since then "mobilize it" literally kinda crack it back into place, which feels incredible, but never lasts. It just requires tons and tons of soft tissue work such as foam roll, mobilizations (look up ankle mobilizations on Youtube, there are a lot of them) and compliment all of that with some really good physical therapy/AT (Athletic Trainers) and u have a chance. This ankle that got jammed up was the 1 that I now have the worse damage to. It kinda sucks... Check that, it sucks horrendously. I used to joke with people at my work, that I'd give ALMOST anything to get a few days back with my ankle at full health. (I'm a personal trainer/S&C Coach, and have worked with tons and tons of Physical Therapists, between PT facilities within the gyms, and just been through multiple stints of PT for my ankles over the years).
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Just posted this into my journal thread under the quitters/graveyard of journals, but I wanted to mention it here.
I was talking to a med-student regarding my ankle, he broke it down by saying the term "osteochondritis dissecans" is surrounded by uncertainty, because it means that when an injury heals it heals incorrectly, it doesn't form bone or cartildge but it is a growth that causes issues, a lot of Drs will recommend micro-fracture surgery, but they'll all tell you its really 50/50 if it will actually make it better, and a lot of cases it will make it worse. So he said his recommendation was to deal with it, live with it, until it starts affecting your every day life. :(
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Instead of "jacking" his thread I figured I'd quote it and rant about it on mine.
In response to a certain journaler's account of a recent ankle tweak, I began to write this semi-coherent rant. And then I decided that it actually applies to a bunch of people around here, including me. So instead of singling out said journaler, here's a new thread:
The most important thing when recovering from a connective tissue injury is to REST THE FUCKING TISSUE THAT GOT INJURED.
Even Andrew "Rest is for pussies" Darqui is resting his toe now, kind of. Tendons and ligaments heal slowly and take time to recover their former strength (if they recover it fully at all) once they're healed. So if you sprain your knee or your ankle or your wrist: Stop playing basketball! Stop shooting jumpers! Stop doing anything that makes you plant on it or rely on it for reactive movements! Slowly reintegrate strengthening and balancing exercises once pain begins to subside! But don't push them too hard too fast!
DO NOT FUCKING RUSH, YOU WILL ONLY FUCK YOURSELF HARDER IN THE LONG TERM.
You're a recreational athlete. Just like me and almost everyone else on this forum. Therefore, you have absolutely no excuse to rush. And if/when you do rush, and you re-injure yourself, there are only two possible outcomes:
- Your recovery takes even longer than it would have otherwise, or
- You end up injuring yourself badly enough to cause long-term pain/damage.
It may sound a twinge hypocritical of me to say this after such a post, but relax. Let your body heal itself. You can always get back to playing basketball or jumping or sprinting or lifting later. The gym isn't going anywhere, the track isn't going anywhere, the hoop isn't going anywhere.
Makes sense, I wish I knew that years ago, cuz now I'm at that point where the damage to my ankle is "long term", I prob could get surgery, but that's even a 50/50 chance of any success (micro-fracture) because now there's some "bone defect"/maybe growth defect that's causing the issue (I heard from a med school student, and a practicing PT).
Reason I mention it after this post is because when I "sprained" my ankle initially back in June '10, it was around 6 - 8 weeks after coming off a "minor" sprain, and I was just getting back into not wearing my ankle brace (not that the ankle brace would've helped much), but if I rested and did more of my "integrated" training (some may consider it functional) I would probably not be in this position. Damn.
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I injured my ankle on January 25th, and I'm supposed to get this air cast off on February 22nd. I'm going to heed the advice that I've seen here and rest the fuck out of my ankle.
I'm in no rush. I will let everyone know how my recovery goes.
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I injured my ankle on January 25th, and I'm supposed to get this air cast off on February 22nd. I'm going to heed the advice that I've seen here and rest the fuck out of my ankle.
I'm in no rush. I will let everyone know how my recovery goes.
what did you do? sprain/break ??
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Who has any information on Flax Seed Oil?? I'm bout to start looking at it to see what its for (I thought it helped with joint lubrication but could be completely wrong) but I'm going to start googling it asking around, because I want to get my ankle as healthy as its going to get for the summer and outdoor basketball when I get a chance to
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Who has any information on Flax Seed Oil?? I'm bout to start looking at it to see what its for (I thought it helped with joint lubrication but could be completely wrong) but I'm going to start googling it asking around, because I want to get my ankle as healthy as its going to get for the summer and outdoor basketball when I get a chance to
I'd just go with fish oil. The omega 3 in flaxseed oil is short chain and we don't convert it efficiently.