Adarq.org
Performance Area => Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros => Topic started by: Raptor on April 28, 2011, 06:47:49 pm
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Now that the major pain has subsided, some pain is still there. It appears when I bend at the waist (like in a standing hamstrig stretch) on the medial side of my left buttock and sometimes in the back.
Any ideas on how to rehab onto this?
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sciatica possibly?
whatever it is i think you'll need some hands on soft tissue work
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Not sure. It might be a gluteus medius thing (after my super-intense lightning bolt like pain days ago).
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Oh, another note:
If I sit exactly like in a leg extension position and extend the leg, the pain is felt in the left buttock. It might actually be an injury that happened because I started to do high volume leg extensions? Maybe there was a muscle that wasn't ready for that? Or it's totally unrelated and it's just a matter of that muscle hurting when it's stretched by my position with the leg extended at the knee and body bent at the waist?
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http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/h_gluteus_max_piriformis.htm
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hey that's the exact same muscle i'm having issues with, except mine is the lower back and right... thanks for the linky!
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And how's it going? I for one can't bend with my arms lower than knee level or else medial left buttock pain occurs. Non-injured I can put my palm on the floor (or could...).
Not sure what's going on, this is a self-diagnostic.
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mine has been on going for ohh, at least since last Oct. it originally seem to have started at lower back when i first started squats and DL's. the pain originally was in the central lower back, then it slowly migrated towards the right, and down to the right butt cheek and finally settled on the Piriformis muscle it seems. still fighting it. see the last 2 page of my journal: http://www.adarq.org/forum/progress-journals-experimental-routines/walking-lunges-vs-box-step-up/90/
interestingly i tend do this variations of this stretch often it seems to work decently... and i gentle massage my pain areas (very lightly) while stretching.
http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/pilatessketches/PiriformisStretch.gif
ps, on a bad day my ROM is severely limited like you are. but with lot of stretching and yoga, lately i find that my ROM isn't really limited anymore. i can pretty much still get my max ROM. how ever, usually at the ROM limit it is still painful. so keep on stretching. also that link is correct, lot of frequent short stretches appear to make it better instead of a major stretch session and then rest. pain tends to be the worse for me when waking up actually. the days when i do 100% rest, no activities, not even stretch, it gets worse. so the pain isn't from over use. the article says some forms are in correct, which i've not determined what mine is... hmm!
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i'm not sure why you'd bother with leg extensions, let alone high rep leg extensions but but you've got trigger points in the glute med/max and/or piriformis syndrome
either ay you need to get yourself some deep soft tissue massage work, both of you
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And how is deep tissue massage being performed and by who (yes, I know, funny answers will follow)
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look up someone in your area
i'm in melbourne so i'm of no help there
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i have had deep issues massage done and on a good day it completely relive the pain when i walked out (1 hour session). but it always returned in 1-3 days. i had about 5 different session with the doc. he's good, but can't cure me... so right now i'm trying to find the source of the problem (what's causing it in the first place)...
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Well at least in my case, this thing appeared after doing some heavy squats + heavy deadlifts, follow by SMITH MACHINE calf raises (that always give me back problems) and some high rep leg extensions. Then it accentuated after I did 90x20 half squats while having "some" back pain.
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ghetto:
you have leg loading discrepancy which comes from a weakness/lack of mobility/lack of stability in the hurty side so if you have had an injury on that side then there's your problem
you'll also have less glute activation/strength on that side too
the worst part of this is that now while also having a weak side, now you'll get an overly tight side from too much loading on the non hurty side which is the onset of injury
raptor - i think your glutes just aren't up to par activation/strength and muscle quality wise...get some soft tissue work done than the minute that finishes stretch the glutes, adductors, quads and hip flexors then activate those glutes as best you can...it also seems that you're lower back is over worked when loaded (squats, deads etc)
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Probably. Whenever I did stepups or lunges I always felt my right glute so much more "firing" than the left one... oh man...
I just did some med ball stuff and stretching and I can touch the ground with both palms right now, I just feel a little "bother" in the glute right now, but it's amazing, just a few minutes ago I couldn't really get past my knee. Funny thing is - I did pretty much hip flexor and ab work with the med ball (med ball kept between the knees or between the feet), not sure what's going on.
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i re-read the diagnostic article raptor posted. my cause isn't the "sway back" position for sure. i also have quite a bit of muscles in my glutes and i'm certainly not flat assed.
SWANS05: i appreciate the attempt but your diagnosis does not fit my case. i have way above average mobility and i never had a particular injury on the right side before. the pain originated on the lower back (center) due to squatting and deadlifts, and slowly migrated right and down to the buttcheeks. if that means anything.
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i re-read the diagnostic article raptor posted. my cause isn't the "sway back" position for sure. i also have quite a bit of muscles in my glutes and i'm certainly not flat assed.
SWANS05: i appreciate the attempt but your diagnosis does not fit my case. i have way above average mobility and i never had a particular injury on the right side before. the pain originated on the lower back (center) due to squatting and deadlifts, and slowly migrated right and down to the buttcheeks. if that means anything.
This is, word for word, exactly my case, but on the left side.
Did you also had a period of about 2-3 days where any sudden movement, or even slow and controlled, would get you a lightning bolt in your back? I had to get out of bed sooo slow and careful to prevent that, and even so it would still strike me twice of thrice until I was out of bed.
Probably the sciatic nerve got caught in something there, or maybe another one.
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sounds identical! mine hasn't been bad like that for 5 weeks or so. at the worst, the act of turning and adjusting position sideways in bed was extremely painful. can't even sit myself up due to the pain; would have to rotate slowly to the side first... 2nd worse would be reduced pain level, but still hard to get up (in the morning). and the back looking flat as a iron board when viewed in the mirror. and random lightening bolts are you described in random ROM. luckily the pain has been manageable lately with continued stretching. the key seems to be "frequent" stretches. after working out yesterday (and balled after) the pain has not worsen. i'm glad to report... back to the gym! yay. in fact it's the first time in months i got up after 4 hours of sleep, feeling refreshed! fingers crossed on getting back into multi-phase sleep. man do i miss this feeling.
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I still get this "cut" feeling in my lowerback sometimes when I twist or move in a random way. So I haven't jumped to a rim in 2 weeks, way too dangerous to make this come back.
For example, I went in the park to do chinups and when I put my feet back down on the floor, a bit harder than just a gentle touch, it stroke me in the back a bit.
Maybe that piriformis muscle is a bit tight and pulls on the nerves/whatever? I'm so afraid to jump (maximally).
One more thing - what stretches do you do? Because I for one can't understand this position at all:
(http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/pilatessketches/PiriformisStretch.gif)
I've tried it and I don't feel any stretch/don't know if that's the right way to do it... I need to search more on youtube.
I found these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbpkAOxro5Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZO-bKdmFFM
Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piriformis_syndrome
To quote:
Inactive gluteal muscles also facilitate development of the syndrome.[citation needed] These are important in both hip extension and in aiding the piriformis in external rotation of the femur. A major cause for inactive gluteals is unwanted reciprocal inhibition from overactive hip flexors (psoas major, iliacus, and rectus femoris). This imbalance usually occurs where the hip flexors have been trained to be too short and tight, such as when someone sits with hips flexed, as in sitting all day at work. This deprives the gluteals of activation, and the synergists to the gluteals (hamstrings, adductor magnus, and piriformis) then have to perform extra roles they were not designed to do. Resulting hypertrophy of the piriformis then produces the typical symptoms.
Overuse injury resulting in piriformis syndrome can result from activities performed in the sitting position that involves strenuous use of the legs as in rowing/sculling and bicycling.
Runners, bicyclists and other athletes engaging in forward-moving activities are particularly susceptible to developing piriformis syndrome if they do not engage in lateral stretching and strengthening exercises. When not balanced by lateral movement of the legs, repeated forward movements can lead to disproportionately weak hip abductors and tight adductors.[9] Thus, disproportionately weak hip abductors/gluteus medius muscles, combined with very tight adductor muscles, can cause the piriformis muscle to shorten and severely contract. Upon a 40% increase in piriformis size, sciatic nerve impingement is inevitable. This means the abductors on the outside cannot work properly and strain is put on the piriformis.[9]
A bit about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxqoFdcVQmY
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OK, so I did some piriformis stretch, then some lowerback stretch, then some hamstring stretch, did 20 + 20 bodyweight squats, then 24 kg KB deadlifts/squats 10+10, then gone with one-leg straight leg deadlift with the KB (kettlebell), then did 4 sets of 10 swings with it, back to 1-leg deads, then did the stretches again...
Now mobility is basically 100% and pain is almost none (a very faint pain sensation when I get past the knees in a hamstring stretch) but that's pretty much it. Will see what happens next.
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i do these stretches.
(http://www.easyvigour.net.nz/fitness/pilatessketches/PiriformisStretch.gif)
this one should really lengthen the piriformis. you don't feel anything with this one? i do this one, and usually gently try to massage the muscle (in general area, since i don't have really sensitive hands; i dunno exactly what i'm massaging) with my finger tips with light pressure. this seems to have a help. then i cup my hands and lightly tap the entire butt cheek area as well.
(http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/img/222_fig3.gif)
(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTIooSYJz3IhHhNmt5Mxle4eZWeZN-5FA23Yb4jqj6_zztDV0w)
downward dog also seems works well for me, especially the one leg in air one too.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSP9DTHFUeaCDD75T1278EGOVOZq23eGwZpfBR259RkSTm0R-Pn)
laying pigeon also works well, especially when you lean forward (could be hard if you're not flexible) but you can control the amount of stretch.
(http://healthy-ojas.com/assets/yoga/ardha-matsyendrasana.gif)
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT06kTdE2Puj64MqaBMI3-LuOf5FOyJtdfsYjihGq-igZsbpdnR)
half spine twists. if you can stick your arm through the legs like the 2nd photo then you will also get really good stretch on the piriformis area (as well as many other muscles).
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Yeah I do the layign pigeon, it's not that hard.