Author Topic: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting  (Read 4155 times)

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TKXII

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Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« on: October 13, 2012, 11:14:51 pm »
0
Today I decided to deadlift. My frequency is about 1ce every 2 weeks, not going too heavy anymore. Today I went near maximal and hunched oover in the lower back most likely during a pull.

So here is what happened and my symptoms based on my observations in sequential order.

375lbs x2 reps. sumo-ish, feet are slightly wider than shoulder width.

First rep, i felt myself using my back a little bit. Intensity is 100%, teeth-clenched, very aggressive energy.
2nd rep, I felt a tearing sensation in my lower back. mid way through the pull, probably just after the barbell crossed my knees on the way up. I did complete the rep, lowered it. ANd stood up, noticing sharp pain in the lumbar spine. Not enough pain to cause me to have to sit down or make a lot of faces. but definitely enugh to end my workout. Couldn't even deadlift 135 after that.

Here are some things I can do sort of comfortable:
1. lunges, step ups
2. child's pose yoga
3. running very slowly causes some pain but it's not completely out of picture.

things that cause pain:
1. leaning backwards. I treid to do the inverted post in yoga that you do after child's pose, where the hip is hyperextended, and that is not possible. so I cannot hyperextend at the hip.
2. taking long strides while walking. when I walk I kind of have to stay on my forefoot. If I extend at the leg too much it causes pain.
3. toe-touch: standing there is abslutely now ay I can bend down to touch my toes. Unless I'm in the middle of a very cold shower. I have to squat down.
4. bending sideways while standing up: that exercise people do to train their obliques, that hurts. unless in cold shower than it's fine, haven't iced it yet I am preparing ice right now.

i think sitting down for toolong also makes it worse.

There is no leg pain. All pain is localized in one small area between L2-L4 unless it's not even in the spine. I read that leg pain is common in a herniated disk. legs feel very strong

Any ideas? Yes I know I need to see a doctor. workingon that.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

adarqui

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2012, 03:26:20 am »
+2
Today I decided to deadlift. My frequency is about 1ce every 2 weeks, not going too heavy anymore. Today I went near maximal and hunched oover in the lower back most likely during a pull.

So here is what happened and my symptoms based on my observations in sequential order.

375lbs x2 reps. sumo-ish, feet are slightly wider than shoulder width.

First rep, i felt myself using my back a little bit. Intensity is 100%, teeth-clenched, very aggressive energy.
2nd rep, I felt a tearing sensation in my lower back. mid way through the pull, probably just after the barbell crossed my knees on the way up. I did complete the rep, lowered it. ANd stood up, noticing sharp pain in the lumbar spine. Not enough pain to cause me to have to sit down or make a lot of faces. but definitely enugh to end my workout. Couldn't even deadlift 135 after that.

:(

ask yourself: what was the point deadlifting near-maximal allowing the back to round? your training has been going very well lately, why risk it with a hunched dl? if there's absolutely one exercise you want to avoid using bad form on, it's deadlift.

for general health/strength/development/athletics, i have no problem with deadlifting, HOWEVER, i think it should be done very strict... sacrificing "Very strict" would invalidate the lift.. people need to start thinking like this, to somehow defeat that innervoice/ego which is often times way too destructive, for what reason it is destructive, i have no idea, but it is.. massive run-on sentence but you get the point.

seriously, promise yourself that you won't ego lift on such a dangerous exercise in the future...

sucks man. hope it's just a little tweak & it's nothing serious.

ice up, relax, heal up.



Quote
Here are some things I can do sort of comfortable:
1. lunges, step ups
2. child's pose yoga
3. running very slowly causes some pain but it's not completely out of picture.

things that cause pain:
1. leaning backwards. I treid to do the inverted post in yoga that you do after child's pose, where the hip is hyperextended, and that is not possible. so I cannot hyperextend at the hip.
2. taking long strides while walking. when I walk I kind of have to stay on my forefoot. If I extend at the leg too much it causes pain.
3. toe-touch: standing there is abslutely now ay I can bend down to touch my toes. Unless I'm in the middle of a very cold shower. I have to squat down.
4. bending sideways while standing up: that exercise people do to train their obliques, that hurts. unless in cold shower than it's fine, haven't iced it yet I am preparing ice right now.

i think sitting down for toolong also makes it worse.

There is no leg pain. All pain is localized in one small area between L2-L4 unless it's not even in the spine. I read that leg pain is common in a herniated disk. legs feel very strong

Any ideas? Yes I know I need to see a doctor. workingon that.

stop messing with it until you've had a chance to sleep it off.. you'll get a better idea of how bad it really is, after you wakeup.

not a good idea to go through all of those positions when your natural pain killers are kicking in.. could do more damage without realizing it.

unfortunately, i replied too late so there goes that..

it's good that there's no leg pain/shooting pain down the leg, but, it's still too early to tell at this point.

Raptor

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2012, 04:08:41 am »
0
Yeah even though my max deadlift is about 180 kg with bad form, I am currently doing Romanian deadlifts with 70-80 kg for a handful of reps (12 reps) and it feels absolutely great. Great form, a lot of leg involvement, no back whatsoever, and it's great for my purposes.

TKXII

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2012, 08:21:03 am »
+1
yeah its good advice. my head though doesn't work as well when I'm too amped up. I did not think I was hunched over but I must have been a little. However I feel like the main reason this happened was b/c the bar was too fat out in front. That's why lumbar spine rounded but didn't feel my thoracic area rounding as it would with 95%+ loads. 375 is more like 90% i'd say.

Updates:
Got much worse in the morning. Could barely stand up. took a hot/cold shower, mostly hot, and I am comfortably standingup. I'm generally stiffer in the morning.

Also found it tough to find a comfortable position to sleep in. Sneezing too hard and coughing does aggravate area a bit. no leg pain but cannot extend leg far.

edit: but hey I wasn't ego lifting, really. I just like lifting really heavy...esp on deads if I feel like it. but yes there is truly no point unless it's a competition.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 08:45:58 am by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

Raptor

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2012, 08:57:32 am »
0
You know, I was reading through the www.exrx.net site and there was a discussion about the straight leg deadlift, and a guy wrote to the guy running the site that the guy (yes, I know, a lot of "guys") in the gif animation bends quite a bit at the spine during the lift.

And the guy running the site was like "if the bar is really close to the body there's not such a big danger, even if the back rounds".

Let me search for that.

Quote
These techniques are used in the execution of the straight leg deadlift. Notice the weight is lowered to the top of the feet and not just beyond the feet. Illustrations in articles suggesting destructive forces on the spine are quite different than the straight leg deadlift. According to the ExRx description and animation the weight is kept very close to the body. Positioning the resistance away from the body subjects forces on spine structures much greater than the straight leg deadlift described.

I personally have not seen a higher incidence of injury to my clients on the straight leg deadlift as compared to other exercises. I certainly agree it would be a risk to perform the straight leg deadlift for individuals with certain low back disorders, or those who do not conform to the 4 adaptation criteria outlined on this site. Although many individuals from industrialized countries suffer from lower back pain, if I were to remove the straight leg deadlift and other exercises based upon certain people's idiosyncrasies, there would be few exercise to left to demonstrate.

http://www.exrx.net/Questions/DangerousExercises.html#anchor416052

adarqui

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2012, 12:29:38 pm »
0
yeah its good advice. my head though doesn't work as well when I'm too amped up. I did not think I was hunched over but I must have been a little. However I feel like the main reason this happened was b/c the bar was too fat out in front. That's why lumbar spine rounded but didn't feel my thoracic area rounding as it would with 95%+ loads. 375 is more like 90% i'd say.

i know, that's why i created this thread:

http://www.adarq.org/injury-prehab-rehab-talk-for-the-brittlebros/anti-ego-lifting-support-thread-(aels)-save-a-joint-save-a-life

"my head though doesn't work as well when i'm too amped up", tell me about it..

:/



Quote
Updates:
Got much worse in the morning. Could barely stand up. took a hot/cold shower, mostly hot, and I am comfortably standingup. I'm generally stiffer in the morning.

Also found it tough to find a comfortable position to sleep in. Sneezing too hard and coughing does aggravate area a bit. no leg pain but cannot extend leg far.


edit: but hey I wasn't ego lifting, really. I just like lifting really heavy...esp on deads if I feel like it. but yes there is truly no point unless it's a competition.

sucks man.

sheeeit.

Raptor

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2012, 01:12:04 pm »
0
I've had it much worse... for me, for 5 days or so I couldn't move one inch without extreme lightning bolts would strike through my back. Couldn't bend further than knee depth in a "hamstring stretch", couldn't brush my teeth with straight knees (had to squat down to the sink with a vertical back) etc etc etc.

TKXII

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2012, 06:52:32 pm »
0
damn that sounds a lot worse.
edit: what caused that?

Updates: went to ER. X-Rays found nothing, as I've read is common. Doctor tested me for pain shooting down limbs, typical of herniated disks when the nerves are pinched, but all the pain is in one area somewhere in the lumbar. So that means if I did slip a disk, it's very minor. However doctor says it's muscle spasm... i dno if I believe that based on what I felt happen mid-lift.

They injected some shit into my ass and I actually feel way better and can pick something off the ground (toradol). It's a lot easier to stand up after sitting down, walking is easier. been icing it all day too. WIll update tmrw. Mentally I feel happy at least. Yeah this nsaid is just stopping the healing process, pain is necessary in my view, a sign that it is healing.

Got referred to a sports medicine doc. maybe i can get an mri there.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 07:01:54 pm by Avishek »
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 06:53:29 pm »
0
You know, I was reading through the www.exrx.net site and there was a discussion about the straight leg deadlift, and a guy wrote to the guy running the site that the guy (yes, I know, a lot of "guys") in the gif animation bends quite a bit at the spine during the lift.

And the guy running the site was like "if the bar is really close to the body there's not such a big danger, even if the back rounds".

Let me search for that.

Quote
These techniques are used in the execution of the straight leg deadlift. Notice the weight is lowered to the top of the feet and not just beyond the feet. Illustrations in articles suggesting destructive forces on the spine are quite different than the straight leg deadlift. According to the ExRx description and animation the weight is kept very close to the body. Positioning the resistance away from the body subjects forces on spine structures much greater than the straight leg deadlift described.

I personally have not seen a higher incidence of injury to my clients on the straight leg deadlift as compared to other exercises. I certainly agree it would be a risk to perform the straight leg deadlift for individuals with certain low back disorders, or those who do not conform to the 4 adaptation criteria outlined on this site. Although many individuals from industrialized countries suffer from lower back pain, if I were to remove the straight leg deadlift and other exercises based upon certain people's idiosyncrasies, there would be few exercise to left to demonstrate.

http://www.exrx.net/Questions/DangerousExercises.html#anchor416052


ncie article btw.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

TKXII

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2012, 10:19:39 pm »
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I'm about 96% better. only pain I have is mild piriformis syndrome stiffness in leg leg which I've had for 5 years at this point. Have never seen anyone abotu it but its usually very mild and doesn't affect anything except a sit and reach test or anything involving hamstring stretches with knees locked. Other than that I could jump, sprint, and lift. taking a rest day though today.

Still don't know exactly what muscle I pulled, I'm thinking psoas since it attaches to lumbar vertebrae and I could not hyperextend.
"Performance during stretch-shortening cycle exercise is influenced by the visco-elastic properties of the muscle-tendon units. During stretching of an activated muscle, mechanical energy is absorbed in the tendon structures (tendon and aponeurosis) and this energy can subsequently be re-utilized if shortening of the muscle immediately follows the stretching. According to Biscotti (2000), 72% of the elastic energy restitution action comes from tendons, 28% - from contractile elements of muscles.

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/Portals/0/Presentations/Shock%20Method%20Plyometrics.pdf

fast does lie

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2012, 10:16:43 pm »
-2
deadlifting is nonsensical. 
33yrs | 24in SVJ | >45% BF | 227LB | 5'9 | 7'5 reach | 400lb max squat paused | 5'8 wingspan | 26in RVJ

Coming back from 2 years of inactivity!

Goal: Maintain 385-405lb squat while cutting down to 165 LB

Raptor

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2012, 03:23:39 am »
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deadlifting is nonsensical. 

What about livelifting?

pelham32

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 01:23:01 pm »
0
Did the same damn thing 5 days ago!! I was actually doing a snatch grip rack pull, no ego lifting but some reason I felt a twinge in my lower back.. Now it seems my whole lower back is locked up to prevent further injury. I think it's a sprain and hopefully not a disc problem.. No shooting leg pain or anything.. But I can't even sneeze without it acting up.. 

Avishek- has yours healed completely, how long did it take? Can you still deadlift?
Goal

windmill consistently/ touch top of the square consistently



weight= 193
height= 6'3 1/2
highest touch= top of the square, which is 11'4

ChrisM

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Re: Pain in lumbar spine, from deadlifting
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2013, 01:44:45 pm »
+1
Low back pain sucks. I never had any issues until my car wreck in January and now my low back flares up occasionally.  Going to a therapist Wednesday to see if we can prehab it and maybe fix it. Lately what Ive been doing if it locks up (sort of spasms and locks, cant really move for awhile then its just sore) has been ice/heat and anti inflammatory junk (ibuprofen). Usually I'm better after a few days.

Good luck man!
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