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Performance Area => Injury, Prehab, & Rehab talk for the brittlebros => Topic started by: LBSS on September 25, 2017, 11:18:56 pm

Title: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 25, 2017, 11:18:56 pm
Frequent injuries have been a fact of my life since I started playing sports. I'm not talking about traumatic injuries -- I've only had one of those, a separated shoulder, and it was from a fall that would have hurt most people -- but more strains and sprains and aches that just always seem to be there in one part of my body or other. As a person who loves exercising and playing sports, this is incredibly frustrating. There has to be a reason, whether or not I can do anything about it.

My interest in training came out of an interest in physical therapy that itself came out of spraining my ankle six goddamn times. Time to get back into PT mode. This thread will be a repository for things I read about injury-proneness and what to do about it.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: maxent on September 25, 2017, 11:22:25 pm
I had a lot of aches and pains until i increased fat intake (among other measures) which i think improved T levels which lead to less aches and pains all round. But not sure if that would apply in your case
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 25, 2017, 11:30:47 pm
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/02/the-genetics-of-being-injury-prone/385257/

Quote
Injury is a fact of life for most athletes, but some professionals—and some weekend warriors, for that matter—just seem more injury-prone than others. But what is it about their bodies that makes the bones, tendons, and ligaments so much more likely to tear or strain—bad luck, or just poor preparation?

A growing body of research suggests another answer: that genetic makeup may play an important role in injury risk.

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anyone have access to this paper and care to share? acole? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25536480

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https://mikkiwilliden.wordpress.com/2016/10/01/injury-prone-read-this/

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Baar’s research found that when they combined vitamin C (important for collagen synthesis) with glycine (one of the most common amino acids in collagen) there was an increase in strength of ligaments the engineered in the laboratory.

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http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2016/11/15/ajcn.116.138594.abstract

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These data suggest that adding gelatin to an intermittent exercise program improves collagen synthesis and could play a beneficial role in injury prevention and tissue repair.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 25, 2017, 11:32:05 pm
I had a lot of aches and pains until i increased fat intake (among other measures) which i think improved T levels which lead to less aches and pains all round. But not sure if that would apply in your case

interesting. i don't exactly keep fat intake low, but might be time to start food journaling again. my diet here isn't the best. it's not bad but like i was literally thinking about going "paleo" again as i was falling asleep last night. just to see.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: fast does lie on September 26, 2017, 04:49:27 am
Some people just don't get injured. 2 perfect examples are Lebron James and Russell westbrook. they've never had a notable injury in their careers and it's not just NBA, since middle school. actually Russ missed some games with a broken finger but before that he didn't miss one game for 18 years. Lebron never had any notable injuries in his life....

Seems like both are very elastic and are elastic jumper. Both can jump very well from a run up even though they don't really train specifically for vertical jump.

Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 26, 2017, 04:54:13 am
^^^ yep. beggars the imagination, especially given what those guys put their bodies through. one of the articles i posted talks about a gene related to collagen. people with a rare-ish variant (5% of pop IIRC) basically never suffer soft tissue injuries, even traumatic ones.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: Mutumbo000 on September 26, 2017, 06:05:15 am
Some people just don't get injured. 2 perfect examples are Lebron James and Russell westbrook. they've never had a notable injury in their careers and it's not just NBA, since middle school. actually Russ missed some games with a broken finger but before that he didn't miss one game for 18 years. Lebron never had any notable injuries in his life....

Seems like both are very elastic and are elastic jumper. Both can jump very well from a run up even though they don't really train specifically for vertical jump.

Than you have players on the other side of the spectrum e.g. Derrick Rose, Bogut etc.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 26, 2017, 06:57:53 am
Some people just don't get injured. 2 perfect examples are Lebron James and Russell westbrook. they've never had a notable injury in their careers and it's not just NBA, since middle school. actually Russ missed some games with a broken finger but before that he didn't miss one game for 18 years. Lebron never had any notable injuries in his life....

Seems like both are very elastic and are elastic jumper. Both can jump very well from a run up even though they don't really train specifically for vertical jump.

Than you have players on the other side of the spectrum e.g. Derrick Rose, Bogut, LBSS etc.

ftfy
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: seifullaah73 on September 26, 2017, 11:03:03 am
Is this the full paper you were looking for.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270005215_The_Dawning_Age_of_Genetic_Testing_for_Sports_Injuries
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 26, 2017, 02:06:21 pm
Is this the full paper you were looking for.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270005215_The_Dawning_Age_of_Genetic_Testing_for_Sports_Injuries

yep! thanks.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: adarqui on September 26, 2017, 03:06:34 pm
Obviously i'm not sure as to the reason behind injury prone-ness (especially yours or mine), if I was, we'd be alot healthier. You and I seem built fairly different, but I think a similarity we share is our stubbornness. So regardless of any genetic markers, we dive head first into things over the years. Both you and I seem like we're becoming more patient and much more careful as we get older, but even then, the KB swings with hamstring soreness is a good example of just being stubborn - without even knowing it. I too wouldn't have expected to get injured (tweak a hammy) by doing that, but I probably would have gotten injured also lmao. So, it's those little things that seem to add up over time and eventually become chronic, that just cause so many problems.

FWIW, I think your fitness has dropped overall over recent months, so your ability to handle even simple training decreased, but mentally you're pushing yourself harder than your body is ready for, without realizing it.

I know for sure that's at least one avenue of prevention that we both need to get better at.

So, being more cautious before training, or not just jumping right into a competitive bout of ultimate in your case, or running in mine, helps. But there's also the next part of it that pretty much everyone suffers from, is when we get these aches/strains/little injuries, we train through them.

So the first part is trying not to get them in the first place .. but the next part, after we get them, is not training through them and making them worse.

But ya, the actual reason for the susceptibility to strains, tendonitis, chronic aches etc, is the million dollar question. I have absolutely no idea.

A few things i've noticed about myself lately in regards to stretching: if it's a rest day, no intense activity, if I stretch - say after a shower, i'm much more susceptible to strains/things tightening up. However, if I stretch before bed or throughout the day, AFTER some form of running/activity, it seems to be much safer. So, heating my body up with a nice hot shower, then stretching, which I always felt was at least better than stretching cold, seems to be much more risky for me, if I haven't done any real activity that day. Secondly, relaxing completely and not forcing a stretch at all, is essential. I'm not forcing any stretches right now, and i've been able to handle nightly stretching before bed, pretty well. The only time I wrecked myself is when I overstretched my rear delt, causing some issue in my ribs. So the funny thing about all of this is, i'm 35. How was I unable to put this together much sooner? Flexibility has always been very elusive to me .. I think the reason why I haven't put it together properly, is that I always wanted more flexibility. Right now, idgaf. I'm just getting in a nice light stretch & whatever comes of it, good. So the mentality has completely changed. simply getting in the stimulus to some degree, without forcing anything, has become the primary goal. I'm actually taking a similar route with running, trying less to "force my pace". I have a pace over X distance that i'm able to hit nice and relaxed, without "forcing it". I'm trying to get better at reaching those paces, and not exceeding them because of my "greedy/stubborn" mindset, which is probably a detriment because of increased injury risk and/or technique/form/mental changes that go along with forcing the pace. So those are a few things i'm honing in on while trying to get to that next level with running.

I do have one injury lately, which is that weird foot injury .. that I can barely explain. It came after my last track workout, where I ended it with spikes. I think it's some kind of weird "fat tissue" damage or something on the edge of my left foot. It just feels very odd. So, like I mentioned above, i'm training through it. Though after tonight, I might actually take a few days off to see if it goes away. I've definitely been too stubborn to just rest and heal it, which is one of my biggest problems. But there's also the idea that working through it a little, if it's nothing, it'll just heal up & disappear. So since that hasn't happened yet, i've probably made it a bit worse instead of better. That's the little "gamble" that, if it goes the "worse direction", probably leads to these chronic aches and pains much more easily.

2 cents + 2 cents

pc!!!
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: Coges on September 26, 2017, 08:52:14 pm
Is it being injury prone or just pushing yourself athletically more than was intended?

I look back at my training history and the injuries that I've had and they all have one thing in common. The repetition of a singular movement through normal ranges and into the stages of pain until the injury occurs. I often think what if I cycled my lifts, had an off-season and a pre-season every year. It almost seems ridiculous that I don't but I'm also scared that if I don't keep lifting all the time I won't progress. A look at my lifts from 7 years ago illustrates this point perfectly. 
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 26, 2017, 11:16:18 pm
lot of wisdom in adarq's post. thanks.

Is it being injury prone or just pushing yourself athletically more than was intended?

I look back at my training history and the injuries that I've had and they all have one thing in common. The repetition of a singular movement through normal ranges and into the stages of pain until the injury occurs. I often think what if I cycled my lifts, had an off-season and a pre-season every year. It almost seems ridiculous that I don't but I'm also scared that if I don't keep lifting all the time I won't progress. A look at my lifts from 7 years ago illustrates this point perfectly.

it's definitely both. the limitation of the "stubborn/pushes too hard" narrative is that it doesn't explain why other people who are also stubborn and push hard don't get hurt so much. hard to measure, but the trend is definitely there. i mean, it's not like i was training or playing harder as a kid in baseball or fencing, but i was always hurt in some way and other kids weren't. the bit about the collagen gene variant that prevents people from getting soft-tissue injuries is tantalizing; i am a walking soft tissue injury. there has to be more out there like that.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: fast does lie on September 28, 2017, 12:37:08 am
Do you take supplements like: MSM + collagen + gloucosamine/chontroitin + fish oil + vitamin c which helps collagen absortion + D3 + magnesium ?
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on September 28, 2017, 01:59:25 am
Do you take supplements like: MSM + collagen + gloucosamine/chontroitin + fish oil + vitamin c which helps collagen absortion + D3 + magnesium ?

i haven't in a long time because evidence for so many of them is so weak and my n=1 is that they have no noticeable effect on my health or well-being. but i think it's time to start again. i got vitamin b12 yesterday on the recommendation of the doc i saw here for my staph infection, as an immune booster. thinking to add fish oil, C, D, and ZMA. and also to start making bone broth.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: fast does lie on October 01, 2017, 10:45:30 am
lol adarq.org members have just as much injuries/aches/pains as pro athletes....

guess it makes sense since members here are almost just as athletic as pro athletes in certain areas.... not overall though or else we'd be contesting for their spots....
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: adarqui on October 01, 2017, 10:53:30 am
lol adarq.org members have just as much injuries/aches/pains as pro athletes....

i'd actually say we have less .. pro athlete life spans aren't long for a reason, they accumulate TONS of issues over time due to their grueling schedules/dedications, that they fight through and use medication/injections/pain killers etc.

when I interned at a facility that did combine prep, many of the nfl combine athletes (college seniors) had already several surgeries to repair torn ligaments, bulging/herniated discs, fractures, etc.. but that's obviously football - a truly brutal sport.

Quote
guess it makes sense since members here are almost just as athletic as pro athletes in certain areas.... not overall though or else we'd be contesting for their spots....

we have (and had) people here who could be competitive or even better in combine style tests, but skills pay the bills. And one amazing thing about skills, is also being able to "burn" someone who is faster/more explosive than you, for example Jerry Rice who had notoriously bad combine numbers for a WR, yet was one of the best NFL WR's of all time.. decent but not amazing core performance numbers, but absolutely amazing athletic ability.

you could have a 50" SVJ, without some kind of specific sports skill, it won't be worth anything professionally (other than making money off of the internet) .. until they create competitive SVJ competitions or put SVJ into the olympics :D

pc
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: ssr7 on August 25, 2018, 10:59:31 pm
Frequent injuries have been a fact of my life since I started playing sports. I'm not talking about traumatic injuries -- I've only had one of those, a separated shoulder, and it was from a fall that would have hurt most people -- but more strains and sprains and aches that just always seem to be there in one part of my body or other. As a person who loves exercising and playing sports, this is incredibly frustrating. There has to be a reason, whether or not I can do anything about it.

My interest in training came out of an interest in physical therapy that itself came out of spraining my ankle six goddamn times. Time to get back into PT mode. This thread will be a repository for things I read about injury-proneness and what to do about it.
Hey dude, been a long time since I've posted. I have a quick question- IIRC you had a metatarsal fracture or some arthritis somewhere in your feet? I could be wrong. The reason I'm asking is that my mom has arthritis in her left big toe metatarsophalangeal joints...was wondering if you'd had anything similar...she's suffering pretty badly from it (after physical therapy, massage therapy, etc. they've made a recommendation for her to get surgery)...I thought I'd ask to see if you had the same injury and if so how you circumvented it.

peace
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: LBSS on August 26, 2018, 04:48:31 am
Frequent injuries have been a fact of my life since I started playing sports. I'm not talking about traumatic injuries -- I've only had one of those, a separated shoulder, and it was from a fall that would have hurt most people -- but more strains and sprains and aches that just always seem to be there in one part of my body or other. As a person who loves exercising and playing sports, this is incredibly frustrating. There has to be a reason, whether or not I can do anything about it.

My interest in training came out of an interest in physical therapy that itself came out of spraining my ankle six goddamn times. Time to get back into PT mode. This thread will be a repository for things I read about injury-proneness and what to do about it.
Hey dude, been a long time since I've posted. I have a quick question- IIRC you had a metatarsal fracture or some arthritis somewhere in your feet? I could be wrong. The reason I'm asking is that my mom has arthritis in her left big toe metatarsophalangeal joints...was wondering if you'd had anything similar...she's suffering pretty badly from it (after physical therapy, massage therapy, etc. they've made a recommendation for her to get surgery)...I thought I'd ask to see if you had the same injury and if so how you circumvented it.

peace

yo. i do in fact have arthritis in the same spot as your mom (both feet, though). started developing because of an apparently congentinal deformity in the joint when i was in my early 20s, so about 10 years ago. it sucked hugely for several years but has basically stabilized to the point where i don't notice it most of the time anymore.

sucked because:
1. joints inflamed, hurt all the time
2. gave me plantar fasciitis (don't have a medical confirmation of a link but had PF at the same time the arthritis was kicking in and it didn't seem like a coincidence at the time)
3. fucked with my gait, leading to chronic pain in my hamstrings and low back in particular.

i did PT, got orthotics, got X-rayed, etc. the surgeon i talked to and the podiatrist both said that it wouldn't get any worse, so the best i could do was just wear orthotics and get used to it. i hated the orthotics and only wore them for a couple of months. eventually, my body adjusted to the new gait and i'm fine most of the time. now my toes are really stiff and if i step on them wrong i can get a little jolt of pain, but mostly they're fine. can't do lunges, push-ups barefoot are tricky, burpees are completely out. and i'm sure i'm leaking power on jumps, sprints, runs, etc., because my toe off has to work around the big toes' inability to flex upward.

the surgeon also told me that he could operate, but the surgical fix for the problem is crude: it involves shaving down the joint and screwing the toe, literally, into place in a flexed position. i was like 23 at the time and still very active, and the surgery seriously diminishes the potential to project power through the feet. in his view, god bless him, it wasn't worth it. he said because the joint is so small, it's hard to operate on, and to wait until (1) i was old enough not to care about running and jumping and (2) doctors had come up with a better operation. hip replacements used to be crippling, now the success rate is super high and i even know a dude who started combat sports after rugby wore down his hip to the point where he needed surgery in his mid-30s. if the toe surgery ever gets to that point, i'll think about it. until them, i'm okay.

dunno how old or active your mom is, and that info is nearly a decade old (and filtered through me, a non-clinician, so take it with a grain of salt). hope it's helpful all the same.
Title: Re: why am i so goddamn injury prone?
Post by: ssr7 on August 27, 2018, 02:54:41 pm
Hey man, I really appreciate your really thorough reply. I'm gonna pass on this info to my mom.

I feel for you...developing arthritis at your main toe-off joint- especially in both toes in your early 20s had to have been the worst...I'm guessing that squats and deadlifts must have been off of the table (for at least a while) given the chronic hamstring/low-back pain.

My mom is 59 and is somewhat active- just does your run-of-the-mill group fitness classes aimed at women (pink dumbell lifting stuff) and zumba; she began jogging in her mid-50s and has has over the last year developed severe pain in ball of left foot (near MTP joint) as well as plantar fascia of that foot. she began exercising for the first time in her life at around age 44- but until her mid 50s didn't really do anything that required the big toe or ball of foot to absorb much pressure- she'd been doing various low-impact dance classes, yoga, etc. I'm guessing her MTP arthritis isn't due to any congenital deformity, but rather due to a late intro to running and poor running technique.

thanks again man