Author Topic: One more inch  (Read 7586 times)

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Cloud3205

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One more inch
« on: November 21, 2010, 02:52:51 am »
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Hi everyone,

My name is Brandon and I am on this forum to try to con Lance into helping me with my training, haha.  I would like to dunk a basketball though and jump higher after that and see what happens.

Training history:  I started off like many unfortunate souls with Air Alert.  I moved on to the jump manual which was initially a good program but lacks customization.  Although Jacob is available for consultation, he is not always accessible and lacks basic variety in his program (the jump manual is merely a template).  I have no history of injury.  I am currently following the vertfreak system and trying to work with Lance to make sure I am programming everything properly.

Stats:  I need about an inch more to dunk a basketball.  I can alley-oop a basketball right now.  I am 6'1" and have a standing vertical of 30".  My running vertical is not much higher because I lack the requisite form otherwise I think I'd be able to get one down already.  I am 180 pounds and 9 to 9.5% bodyfat.  I would kill a man in hand to hand combat for an extra inch on my vertical.

I am posting my log here for Lance to review.  I used to squat only to parallel but now I perform full (A2G) squats.  I used to romanian deadlift but now do straight leg deadlifts so some of my initial tests on these lifts might be a little low based on unfamiliarity with the lifts.  Anyway, here is my log.

I have my Monday and Friday workout here but I also do 4x4 running vertical jumps, core, and upper body wednesday, 4x4 running vertical jumps and box jump workout A on Thursday, and 4x4 jumps and core on Sunday. I take Tuesday and Saturday off.  Everything below is listed in a reps x sets (as opposed to sets x reps) format.

Week 1 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 205 pounds
Bulgarian split squats 3x5 - 20 pounds (each hand, each leg)
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 185 pounds

Week 1 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 185 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 135 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 75 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Week 2 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 210 pounds
Split squats 3x5 - 25 pounds
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 185 pounds

Week 2 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 190 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 135 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 75 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Week 3 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 215 pounds
Split squats 3x5 - 30 pounds
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 195 pounds

Week 3 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 205 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 140 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 80 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Notes:  I am just concerned about setting my squat percentages during weeks 6-10 of the intermediate strength based vertfreak template and would like help doing that.  I will update this log weekly. 

LanceSTS

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 03:24:26 am »
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 Hey bud, glad to see you here, go ahead and start a journal in the journal section and I will get your workout adjusted for you.  Also, can you train three days per week or only able to get to the gym two? Let me know and we will get you set up.
Relax.

adarqui

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 05:54:23 am »
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Hi everyone,

My name is Brandon and I am on this forum to try to con Lance into helping me with my training, haha.  I would like to dunk a basketball though and jump higher after that and see what happens.

welcome, no conmen tho ;d


Quote
Training history:  I started off like many unfortunate souls with Air Alert.  I moved on to the jump manual which was initially a good program but lacks customization.  Although Jacob is available for consultation, he is not always accessible and lacks basic variety in his program (the jump manual is merely a template).  I have no history of injury.  I am currently following the vertfreak system and trying to work with Lance to make sure I am programming everything properly.

Stats:  I need about an inch more to dunk a basketball.  I can alley-oop a basketball right now.  I am 6'1" and have a standing vertical of 30".  My running vertical is not much higher because I lack the requisite form otherwise I think I'd be able to get one down already.  I am 180 pounds and 9 to 9.5% bodyfat.  I would kill a man in hand to hand combat for an extra inch on my vertical.

damn one inch, you got that.. you might want to try ingesting caffeine 1x/week prior to your jump sessions, that'll most likely give you that inch, sure it comes from a stimulant (caffeine), but it works nonetheless.. a starbucks coffee shot or, what lance has prescribed to me, a "redline", even though i've never had it, should get you extra amped.. if you have never tried that, it's very useful 1x/week, don't get into the habbit of 3x/week or more though, it'll lose effectiveness..



Quote
I am posting my log here for Lance to review.  I used to squat only to parallel but now I perform full (A2G) squats.  I used to romanian deadlift but now do straight leg deadlifts so some of my initial tests on these lifts might be a little low based on unfamiliarity with the lifts.  Anyway, here is my log.

I have my Monday and Friday workout here but I also do 4x4 running vertical jumps, core, and upper body wednesday, 4x4 running vertical jumps and box jump workout A on Thursday, and 4x4 jumps and core on Sunday. I take Tuesday and Saturday off.  Everything below is listed in a reps x sets (as opposed to sets x reps) format.

Week 1 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 205 pounds
Bulgarian split squats 3x5 - 20 pounds (each hand, each leg)
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 185 pounds

Week 1 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 185 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 135 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 75 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Week 2 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 210 pounds
Split squats 3x5 - 25 pounds
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 185 pounds

Week 2 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 190 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 135 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 75 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Week 3 - Monday
8 x 100meters sprints
Full squat 3 reps x 8 sets - 215 pounds
Split squats 3x5 - 30 pounds
Stiff leg deadlifts 5 x 5 - 195 pounds

Week 3 - Friday
Stiff leg deadlifts - 5 x5 205 pounds
Box squats 6x4(60%) - 160 pounds
Hang cleans 3x5 - 140 pounds
Power snatch 2x4 - 80 pounds
Jump squat 4x4 - 95 pounds

Notes:  I am just concerned about setting my squat percentages during weeks 6-10 of the intermediate strength based vertfreak template and would like help doing that.  I will update this log weekly. 

swatts

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 03:40:13 pm »
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I would recommended you reevaluate your speed session. It is pretty crazy to ask your body to rattle off 8x 100's at a high intensity in one day. Even an elite sprinter would have trouble with a session like that. Personally I would struggle to over 500m of speed volume in an entire week..

Cloud3205

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 06:15:11 pm »
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Thanks for the comments guys.  The caffeine sounds like a good idea.  I do drink some green tea already but that's most to help promote leanness. 

As far as the sprints are concerned, I was using that from the vertfreak template.  I talked to Adam Linkenauger about that and he seemed to think it is fine.  However, since Lance is more helpful, I am going with his modified program starting Monday which will include no sprints.  He put the modified program in the journal section. 

adarqui

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 06:34:52 pm »
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I would recommended you reevaluate your speed session. It is pretty crazy to ask your body to rattle off 8x 100's at a high intensity in one day. Even an elite sprinter would have trouble with a session like that. Personally I would struggle to over 500m of speed volume in an entire week..

agree, unless they are lighter tempo of course, but ya 8 x 100m at 90+% is ridiculously intense and a great way to pull a hammy/hip flexor.

pc

LanceSTS

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2010, 06:52:11 pm »
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Thanks for the comments guys.  The caffeine sounds like a good idea.  I do drink some green tea already but that's most to help promote leanness. 

As far as the sprints are concerned, I was using that from the vertfreak template.  I talked to Adam Linkenauger about that and he seemed to think it is fine.  However, since Lance is more helpful, I am going with his modified program starting Monday which will include no sprints.  He put the modified program in the journal section. 

Yea, sprints should be part of the dynamic warm up, the last thing you do before workout, something like 6 sets of 10 yd sprints/starts for now.  If you need help making the warm up let me know in the journal.
Relax.

Cloud3205

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2010, 08:33:02 pm »
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Hmmm, do you know why those sprints would be in the vertfreak template like that?  They are in there....

adarqui

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2010, 12:23:32 am »
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Hmmm, do you know why those sprints would be in the vertfreak template like that?  They are in there....

are you supposed to run them at max effort, or at some percentage of max effort?

what's the guidelines (intensity, rest interval between sprints, etc) for those 100m sprints?

peace

Cloud3205

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2010, 01:02:57 am »
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I emailed Adam on this and basically it's full speed sprints on Monday with a walk back rest and 75% sprints on Fridays.  I have the relevant portion of the email below followed by the full email if you want to see that.  In the template it says to walk back for a recovery.  The question I was asking was on week 1 which only had 80 meter sprints x 8, but they are increased to 100 meters in week 2 and on. 

Excerpt:

3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 



Full email:
    I just bought a copy of vertfreak.  I have a few questions...

    1)  In choosing between the "strength based" and "explosive based" workouts the primary test seems to be subtracting a running jump from a standing vertical jump.  I have really bad form on my jump and always have and my running jump has consistently been 2" higher than my standing jump.  For example, when my standing vertical was 20" my running vertical was 22."  Now my standing vertical is 30" and my running vertical is 32".  I am trying to work on my form but I don't know if I can do it without a coach physically present...My question is, should I always just select the "explosive based" workout based on the test provided?


Go on the test provided.. If you feel that form is really the deciding factor in WHY your numbers are what they are, then go with Strength.


    2) In the program I don't see any practice jumping (just doing regular approach jumps) scheduled into the workouts, at least not in "intermediate explosive".  Everything I have ever read says that you should practice jumping.  I am wondering how often you think you should practice jumping built in the confines of your workout and if you could give a set s and rep ranges.


Practice jumps come into play during phase 3, as there is no use "practicing approaches" when you are out of shape/not in the shape we want you at... You can also do practice jumps after phase 3 for a couple weeks to concentrate on form before getting into another cycle.


    3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 
 

    4)  I see no discussion of post-activation potentiation in the vertfreak program.  I was wondering if you recommend doing altitude drops or depth jumps in between sets of squats...


Phase II and Phase III should have drops and jumps for you, but these will take place in the workout portion prior to weights, I personally don't recommend DJs between squatting unless you are on a VERY light explosive phasing.


    5)  Are there only 6 workouts?  Basically I see i.  Beginner strength based ii.  Beginner explosive based iii. intermediate strength based iv. intermediate explosive based v. advanced strength based vi. advanced explosive based.


For weight training that is correct,  but there are three combo's available (BW/Medball/Weights)  and also the program obviously will base itself on your strength numbers.  I think you will be pleased with the periodized training system.

swatts

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2010, 02:29:03 pm »
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I emailed Adam on this and basically it's full speed sprints on Monday with a walk back rest and 75% sprints on Fridays.  I have the relevant portion of the email below followed by the full email if you want to see that.  In the template it says to walk back for a recovery.  The question I was asking was on week 1 which only had 80 meter sprints x 8, but they are increased to 100 meters in week 2 and on. 

Excerpt:

3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 



Full email:
    I just bought a copy of vertfreak.  I have a few questions...

    1)  In choosing between the "strength based" and "explosive based" workouts the primary test seems to be subtracting a running jump from a standing vertical jump.  I have really bad form on my jump and always have and my running jump has consistently been 2" higher than my standing jump.  For example, when my standing vertical was 20" my running vertical was 22."  Now my standing vertical is 30" and my running vertical is 32".  I am trying to work on my form but I don't know if I can do it without a coach physically present...My question is, should I always just select the "explosive based" workout based on the test provided?


Go on the test provided.. If you feel that form is really the deciding factor in WHY your numbers are what they are, then go with Strength.


    2) In the program I don't see any practice jumping (just doing regular approach jumps) scheduled into the workouts, at least not in "intermediate explosive".  Everything I have ever read says that you should practice jumping.  I am wondering how often you think you should practice jumping built in the confines of your workout and if you could give a set s and rep ranges.


Practice jumps come into play during phase 3, as there is no use "practicing approaches" when you are out of shape/not in the shape we want you at... You can also do practice jumps after phase 3 for a couple weeks to concentrate on form before getting into another cycle.


    3) In the "Intermediate explosive" program you have listed 8x80 uphill sprints before a workout essentially based on squatting and stiff leg deadlifts.  I see no % max listed on the uphill sprints so does that mean you should sprint at full speed?  Wouldn't sprinting 80 meters uphill 8 times at full speed wear you out before squatting?

Anything under 100m will be at 100%, with near full recovery between sprints.  Proper recovery, and your squat should be fine. 
 

    4)  I see no discussion of post-activation potentiation in the vertfreak program.  I was wondering if you recommend doing altitude drops or depth jumps in between sets of squats...


Phase II and Phase III should have drops and jumps for you, but these will take place in the workout portion prior to weights, I personally don't recommend DJs between squatting unless you are on a VERY light explosive phasing.


    5)  Are there only 6 workouts?  Basically I see i.  Beginner strength based ii.  Beginner explosive based iii. intermediate strength based iv. intermediate explosive based v. advanced strength based vi. advanced explosive based.


For weight training that is correct,  but there are three combo's available (BW/Medball/Weights)  and also the program obviously will base itself on your strength numbers.  I think you will be pleased with the periodized training system.



8x80m at 100%, even up a hill, is pretty crazy for a beginner, I would scratch that and go with some shorter stuff at a much lower volume. I highly doubt you will be able to maintain intensity for 8x80m, if you do it, think about doing them on a grassy hill, that'll go a long way to preserving your legs.. walkback for the rest interval!?! that is also rather crazy, General rule of thumb when doing a speed workout is 1 min recovery for every 10m @ 100%.

I personally think a more appropriate workout to start out with would be along the lines of 10x10m or 6x20m, definitely under 150m of speed volume to start with.. for hills something like 5x30m.

Also unless your looking to make general fitness gains or work on speed endurance qualities, i think 80m is a little too far for hills.

LBSS

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2010, 04:48:22 pm »
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Yeah I think Charlie Francis (RIP) would have an aneurysm if he saw 8x80 recommended as a way to build explosiveness and/or speed (EDIT: Except for someone already highly trained and already well into their training year). Seems pretty retarded to me.
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Cloud3205

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 06:54:58 pm »
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Hey friends, this was not my idea.  I was just following what Adam Linkenauger suggested to me.  Above is a copy of his email.  I thought that it was too intensive when I saw it, but please know that every person using a Vertfreak intermediate based program is told to do those sprints.  I am thinking about asking for a refund...

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2010, 09:09:15 am »
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I responded to some forums on the Vertfreak site over the last few weeks because I just finished the intermediate strength program. I gained maybe a quarter of an inch over the 12 weeks and I think I was severely overtraining- not just from the sprints but from the length and volume of the workouts overall. Some people on there were criticizing me, making it sound like I didn't work hard enough or my recovery habits (sleep, diet, etc.) were poor, so it's nice to see that my claims of overtraining might be valid. Most people on the VF forums said they love the program and got great results from it.

The sprints were usually twice a week, once something like "10x100m Uphill sprints light jog down recovery" and once something like "10x125m light hill incline sprints (70% max speed/above a jog pace) Walk back recovery".

You can always ask for a refund and I'll sell you my copy of it cheap, since I'm done with it. Maybe I should ask for a refund too but I don't think Adam is very happy with me right now, lol.

And since I just joined here, I'll give a quick intro. I'm Craig, I'm 33, 5'8", 155 lbs, and have usually been into endurance sports. I've accomplished lots of my goals over the years such as bicycling across the USA and bicycling 200 miles in a day, running a marathon in my target time, and getting my bench press up to 200 pounds. I've shifted a little bit over the last 2 years to try to get my running vertical leap up to 30" to touch a 10' hoop. It's something I've always wanted even though I haven't played basketball in about 10 years. It was about 28" back in college, 25" when I started working on it again last year, and now 28" again. I used VJB and some similar workouts over the last year and a half to get it back there but I'm now at a plateau. I'm going to start Vertical Mastery over the weekend and Jack told me about this thread after I was complaining to him about how tired I was after VF. He's been very helpful and friendly and I'm looking forward to getting going with Vertical Mastery.

joejoe22

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Re: One more inch
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2010, 10:27:04 am »
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One More Inch

That's what she said!   :highfive:

Couldn't resist!