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Blog Section => LanceSTS's Performance Blog => Topic started by: LanceSTS on April 19, 2011, 11:17:36 pm

Title: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 19, 2011, 11:17:36 pm
There are a ton of terrible jump training/plyo workouts all over the web, and many people asking questions on how to set up jump specific workouts.  Some of these templates will be complexes with strength/power exercises, some will be jump specific training to be done either before strength training, or on a different day altogether.  


METRICS

(we called this one "metrics" in college, short for plyometrics obviously, even though one could argue it contains exercises that are not extremely intense plyometrics,  but it sounds cool and Im not gonna change something with a cool sounding name, so it will remain "metrics". ) very simple template, very effective.


dynamic warm up, short sprint starts, leg swings complex (front to back 10x, side to side 10x, knee drives front to back 10x)

Use a distance of ~30-35 yards, a basketball court works well, football field, track, etc.


I. DOUBLE LEG BOUNDS FOR MAX SPEED- these are very sub max jumps, focus on quick ground contacts and being light on the feet.  Dont jump high, dont jump far, YET. Get off the ground, AS FAST AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE.

II. SINGLE LEG BOUNDS FOR MAX SPEED- same as above, but single leg bounding, same leg, quick, snappy, ground contact, not high, not far, "the ground is hot" cue.  Head should stay on the same plane throughout the set.



INTENSIVE JUMPS



1a. DOUBLE LEG BOUNDS FOR DISTANCE- basically continuous broad jumps, without the focus on reaching for the landing.  Dont jump so far that you have to stop and re gather for the next bound.

1b. DOUBLE LEG BOUNDS FOR HEIGHT- two leg bounds, with a focus on height rather than distance.  You want to still have plenty of forward momentum, but focus on going UP rather than OUT. You will obviously have more ground contacts on these than the previous set.

2a. SINGLE LEG BOUNDS FOR DISTANCE- basic single leg bounding (same leg), focus on distance and forward speed rather than height attained.  Head should stay basically the same level throughout the set.

2b.  SINGLE LEG BOUNDS FOR HEIGHT- single leg bounding for max HEIGHT, dont worry about distance, try to achieve as much time in the air as possible every bound.  

cool down, myofascial release, pnf stretch


NOTES:  You can repeat the workout (parts 1a-2b), up to 3 times each, but start out with ONCE.  IF YOU NOTICE A DROP OFF IN PERFORMANCE, STOP.  The better you get at bounding and the more you perform this workout, the higher your explosive work capacity gets, and the more rounds you can handle.

ALWAYS, do 1a. or 2a., BEFORE doing the B version, the bounding for DISTANCE increases hip involvement and recruitment in the bounds, and will make the B version much more powerful, explosive, and smooth.  There is no need to go back and do I and II after you have already completed a full cycle of the bounds.  Be sure to start out slowly and progress the intensity, soon you will be able to go for max distance and max height, but do a few sessions first to build the work capacity and adequately prepare the body.  
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: adarqui on April 19, 2011, 11:39:35 pm
nice, very simple but very effective.. i actually prefer double & single leg bounds (& MR pogo/MR half tuck) over dj's now (for the last year or a little less).. really great exercises.. mastering single leg bounds will result in some seriously strong legs.. i like the single leg bounds for max speed also, great way to learn to bound, alot easier to perform. feels real good to cycle that same leg over real quick.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: $ick3nin.v3nd3tta on April 20, 2011, 12:52:17 am
I found that only horizontal single leg hops for distance, had a significant correlation to sprint times. The other plyometric exercises I did not correlate significantly to sprint times including bounds & depth jumps (but that's just me).

Do you guys recognise sprinting as a plyometric activity?.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 20, 2011, 01:39:18 am
I found that only horizontal single leg hops for distance, had a significant correlation to sprint times. The other plyometric exercises I did not correlate significantly to sprint times including bounds & depth jumps (but that's just me).

Do you guys recognise sprinting as a plyometric activity?.

Single leg bounds for distance have a very close relationship to the sprinting motion, so they will always have a higher correlation to sprinting.  Other plyometric exercises can address different strengths and weaknesses, that will also benefit sprinting, but the direct correlation will not be as high. 

Sprinting is very plyometric in nature, yes.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 20, 2011, 01:43:40 am
nice, very simple but very effective.. i actually prefer double & single leg bounds (& MR pogo/MR half tuck) over dj's now (for the last year or a little less).. really great exercises.. mastering single leg bounds will result in some seriously strong legs.. i like the single leg bounds for max speed also, great way to learn to bound, alot easier to perform. feels real good to cycle that same leg over real quick.


thanks, definitely agree with all of that. Getting a solid single leg bound will build some insane leg strength, many times lower body strength exercises will even go up as the bounds get better.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on April 20, 2011, 03:00:50 am
Quick question: if my right knee is injured and I can't perform right leg bounds, but I can do double and left leg single leg bounds, is that OK?

Because frankly, being a single leg jumper, I pretty much need a lot of bounding on my left leg. The problem is - if you do only one leg it might affect the fatigue level and screw up the double leg bounds since one leg is tired and another leg is fresh.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 20, 2011, 03:17:27 am
Quick question: if my right knee is injured and I can't perform right leg bounds, but I can do double and left leg single leg bounds, is that OK?

Because frankly, being a single leg jumper, I pretty much need a lot of bounding on my left leg. The problem is - if you do only one leg it might affect the fatigue level and screw up the double leg bounds since one leg is tired and another leg is fresh.

Yea, you can do that for sure, it happens pretty often actually with jumpers.  If double leg bounding doesnt bother it, then it is fine, only do the single leg bounds on the un injured leg though.  What we usually do is perform some extra unilateral work in the weightroom for the injured side to help make up for the lack of bounding on that side.  Find a good unilateral that doesnt bug it.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on April 25, 2011, 03:16:09 am
Would performing bounds on stairs like on bleachers work too?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 25, 2011, 04:18:50 am
Would performing bounds on stairs like on bleachers work too?


Its an exercise, but its A LOT less intensive, youre taking away the eccentric overload of the landing, similar to a box jump.  With stair jumps you actually JUMP again, so its better than a box jump, but not nearly as intensive as traditional bounding.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 02, 2011, 02:23:16 am
I'm a single leg jumper, and my goal is to jump higher.

Do you recommend doing single leg bounds for height?  or distance?  or max speed?

Should I be using them all?

If so, any specific one to put the most focus on?

How often do you feel a plyo session of like sprints,depth jumps, pogos, and bounds should be done a week, if I'm lower body lifting 3x a week (low volume lifting)?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 02, 2011, 03:15:47 pm
I'm a single leg jumper, and my goal is to jump higher.

Do you recommend doing single leg bounds for height?  or distance?  or max speed?

Should I be using them all?

Yea, all of them, each style will benefit a different aspect of jumping, when you need to specialize on one point you can focus more on specific variation, but most athletes need to do all of them and will benefit from all of them equally.

Quote
If so, any specific one to put the most focus on?

not right now, in fact, unless youre a high level jumper already youre really giving away something by not doing all of the variations. for example, if you ONLY did max height, you would be missing the benefit of getting better at utilizing a faster approach, quicker acceleration, from max distance and speed bounding, which will lead to even greater heights once developed.

Quote
How often do you feel a plyo session of like sprints,depth jumps, pogos, and bounds should be done a week, if I'm lower body lifting 3x a week (low volume lifting)?

too many variables to consider without seeing your program man, but as a general guideline, if youre training with weights 3 x a week, I would jump 2-3 x a week, either before lifting, or on off days.  Lots of good results either way.  People freak out when they do plyos and jumps on the day after strength training, because initially the jumps will be slightly affected from the weights, but if they allowed time for adaptation, they would improve drastically.


note that when i say "jump" 2-3 x a week, im referring to max jumping/plyos/etc., low level reactive stuff, basketball, etc.,  can and should be done daily imo.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 02, 2011, 05:17:25 pm
I'm a single leg jumper, and my goal is to jump higher.

Do you recommend doing single leg bounds for height?  or distance?  or max speed?

Should I be using them all?

Yea, all of them, each style will benefit a different aspect of jumping, when you need to specialize on one point you can focus more on specific variation, but most athletes need to do all of them and will benefit from all of them equally.

Quote
If so, any specific one to put the most focus on?

not right now, in fact, unless youre a high level jumper already youre really giving away something by not doing all of the variations. for example, if you ONLY did max height, you would be missing the benefit of getting better at utilizing a faster approach, quicker acceleration, from max distance and speed bounding, which will lead to even greater heights once developed.

Quote
How often do you feel a plyo session of like sprints,depth jumps, pogos, and bounds should be done a week, if I'm lower body lifting 3x a week (low volume lifting)?



too many variables to consider without seeing your program man, but as a general guideline, if youre training with weights 3 x a week, I would jump 2-3 x a week, either before lifting, or on off days.  Lots of good results either way.  People freak out when they do plyos and jumps on the day after strength training, because initially the jumps will be slightly affected from the weights, but if they allowed time for adaptation, they would improve drastically.


note that when i say "jump" 2-3 x a week, im referring to max jumping/plyos/etc., low level reactive stuff, basketball, etc.,  can and should be done daily imo.

Thanks.  Will definitely incorporate all variations of bounds into my training.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: steven-miller on May 02, 2011, 05:43:55 pm
Lance, thanks for taking the time to put up some tried and true templates! I think many people have been waiting for something like that!

I have two questions regarding this:

1) When can a trainee expect PRs in those specific exercises or in which intervals will improvements usually occur and for how long of a period? This would be useful to know as a guideline.

2) How much room would bounding and its variations have in a double leg jumpers program? Which benefits are to be expected and how well compare bounding exercises vs. depth jumps and depth drops for double leg jumpers?

I guess this are not really two questions, but I guess you know where I am getting at!

Thanks again,
s-m
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 02, 2011, 06:42:08 pm
  Hey Steven, glad you like the set up man.

1. Improvements will be relatively fast initially, and as with any jump/plyo or strength training plan, taper off as you become more advanced.  However, as long as there is consistent improvement in the weight room, as well as QUALITY work put into the bounds, that progression could last a lifetime. As you improve in both areas, you are able to output more force on each bound, youre absorbing higher forces on each, and youre rebounding out of higher drops.

  The single leg bounds done for max distance and max height are kind of unique in that they provide enough of an overload (being done uni laterally) to cause a notable increase in strength as well as reactive ability/force absorbtion.  I have seen several cases of new squat pr's for several weeks following implementing a fairly intense bounding program and have heard many others say the same.

2. I feel very strongly that double leg jumpers can benefit immensely from certain single leg plyometric/jump drills, I have talked about the single leg pogos for max height in place before, and I feel that it is actually much more beneficial for 2 leg jumps than single.  The recruitment patterns are so different when you do any style of jump in place vs moving forward with momentum (like a unilateral jump really is) and the overload of doing one leg at a time is very very beneficial.  The bounding (both single and double leg) for distance will help with hip recruitment and power in the jumps, while the bounds for height will target the calf/quad area more and ability to absorb/transfer force. 

  Even if with volleyball you dont have the time to do all of the above bounding template, you may want to try giving single leg pogo hops for max height a try, they are a very underutilized tool imo for double leg jumpers and can really help bridge the gab between strength and speed for your jumps. Sets of 10 per leg  work really well, any more and you start to get too sub max.   
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 03, 2011, 12:48:42 am
Lance, I tried the 3 variations of single leg bounding for the first time today.  Got to say, pretty hard and felt awkward.  Feels like I got a lot of room for improvement on my vert from doing bounds.

I felt kind of stupid/ like I'm doing it wrong on the MAX speed bounding.  So like, just focus on jumping with one leg and minimizing ground contact time, is that right?

Max height is pretty self explanatory, I just stay on my 1 leg and keep jumping with it as high as possible, and max distance I just stay on my 1 leg and try to jump as far as possible with the 1 leg the whole time right?

So my question is, for max height and max distance, am I supposed to be trying to do them fast?  Like on each jump, I had to jump, land, find balance again, and then jump again...

Also, any recommendation of rep/set schemes for these?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 03, 2011, 01:00:22 am
Lance, I tried the 3 variations of single leg bounding for the first time today.  Got to say, pretty hard and felt awkward.  Feels like I got a lot of room for improvement on my vert from doing bounds.

Yea, most peoples bounds are very bad to begin with from a form standpoint, takes a lot of work but its a big pay day when you master them.

Quote
I felt kind of stupid/ like I'm doing it wrong on the MAX speed bounding.  So like, just focus on jumping with one leg and minimizing ground contact time, is that right?

dont go all out on these as far as height or distance, try and keep your head on the same level the whole set.  the primary focus is on minimal ground contact.

Quote
Max height is pretty self explanatory, I just stay on my 1 leg and keep jumping with it as high as possible, and max distance I just stay on my 1 leg and try to jump as far as possible with the 1 leg the whole time right?

So my question is, for max height and max distance, am I supposed to be trying to do them fast?  Like on each jump, I had to jump, land, find balance again, and then jump again...

Also, any recommendation of rep/set schemes for these?

 No, dont reset after each bound, it drastically changes the dynamic of the exercise.  If youre having trouble absorbing and transitioning from consecutive bounds, just dont jump as high/far until you develop the power and strength to do so.  Tons of guys have problems with the buckling of the leg when beginning bounding or bounding at max intensity, its usually caused by the hamstrings not being strong/powerful enough to transfer the force up to the hips, but you will develop that ability in time, just dont jump all out until you are ready.

The set/rep recommendations are in the article.  At your level 1-3 times through the progression should be plenty to begin with.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: steven-miller on May 03, 2011, 04:13:16 am
Thank you Lance, I will definitely try the single leg pogos on oly days! I feel like I could use some unilateral work but don't want to do another barbell movement (like lunges) right now with 4 times per week lifting already. Will save the bounding work-out for later this year.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 03, 2011, 11:15:37 am
Thank you Lance, I will definitely try the single leg pogos on oly days! I feel like I could use some unilateral work but don't want to do another barbell movement (like lunges) right now with 4 times per week lifting already. Will save the bounding work-out for later this year.


 Np man, thats great, keep me posted on how its working for you!  Just to be clear on the single leg pogos, this is a pretty good example, and MAX HEIGHT per jump, in a rythmic fashion (rebounding) is the goal.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuteenGj6os

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuteenGj6os&feature=player_profilepage
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: gukl on May 03, 2011, 05:44:32 pm
nice! i was whinging in my journal the other day looking for a plyo program to follow and then you post this  :D going to start it once exams are done and i have some more time

would it be fine to do this the day after lower body lifts assuming no ridiculous soreness/fatigue or should i give a rest day/do it before strength training? also what about including aerobic/anaerobic work with this and lifting...do it on the same day after plyos or rest days/after strength training?

sorry a bit jumbled up hope you can understand what i mean
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 03, 2011, 10:26:28 pm
nice! i was whinging in my journal the other day looking for a plyo program to follow and then you post this  :D going to start it once exams are done and i have some more time

haha glad it helped man.

Quote
would it be fine to do this the day after lower body lifts assuming no ridiculous soreness/fatigue or should i give a rest day/do it before strength training?


Yep, if you give your body time to adapt to doing plyos and jumps the day after lifting, it can work great, in fact it can even serve as a recovery type workout assuming the volume isnt insane.  Your first couple of workouts will be noticeably a little harder and less explosive, but like anything else, the body will adapt if given time.


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also what about including aerobic/anaerobic work with this and lifting...do it on the same day after plyos or rest days/after strength training?

would definitely do it after strength training, particularly lower body strength training days


Quote
sorry a bit jumbled up hope you can understand what i mean

lol, no problems man, I understood perfectly.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: JelloPuddinPup on May 04, 2011, 10:20:09 pm
Lance, do you have a problem with me using (more or less plagiarizing) this for some of the workouts for the kids I coach? I know several of them could benefit from putting this into their workouts this summer and off-season.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 04, 2011, 11:53:43 pm
Not at all man, thats what I put them up for.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: dunkingfreak on May 06, 2011, 02:04:40 am
So I do the intensive bounds until I see a drop off in performance?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 06, 2011, 02:34:35 am
So I do the intensive bounds until I see a drop off in performance?


Yea if youve already gone through the cycle once and are doing more work, use drop offs as a guide.  One full cycle is not going to cause too much fatigue in most cases, and you need a minimum level of volume to improve.  So after one time through it, go until you notice a substantial drop off in jump performance.  With bounding its pretty easy to notice as you will start to notice more of a "collapse" of the leg thats very easy to spot.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: dunkingfreak on May 07, 2011, 12:25:22 am
k thanks
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 16, 2011, 02:31:19 am
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently. 

You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 16, 2011, 08:29:50 am
I'm going to do my first "metrics" workout today.

By the way, for the bounds for quickness, and I'm talking about the double leg variation, how deep should you go in each of the gathers? Very deep and quick (say parallel depth or so) or less deep?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 01:41:15 pm
I'm going to do my first "metrics" workout today.

nice man, good luck and let me know how it goes!

Quote
By the way, for the bounds for quickness, and I'm talking about the double leg variation, how deep should you go in each of the gathers? Very deep and quick (say parallel depth or so) or less deep?

Yea, those will be less depth but still focus on throwing the legs out in front a decent ways.  Goal is less ground contact tho so dont go too far out that it puts you in a deep squat position.  Think "hip extension" more than "knee bend" on those.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 01:45:53 pm
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently. 

congrats on the 2 inch gain man, thats GREAT!@!  I would lift at least at least 2 days a week though, cutting it down to one day will be harder to still make strength gains which you still need at this point. 

Quote
You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.

yea, lift at least 2 days, and we are working on some bounding progression videos, hopefully have those out soon.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 16, 2011, 02:33:21 pm
Actually, it just rained outside so I hadn't have the oportunity to do them... I will film them the next time I try them.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D-Rose Jr on May 16, 2011, 06:06:28 pm
Lance i was wondering what a depth jump progression would be like.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 16, 2011, 08:01:37 pm
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently.

congrats on the 2 inch gain man, thats GREAT!@!  I would lift at least at least 2 days a week though, cutting it down to one day will be harder to still make strength gains which you still need at this point.  

Quote
You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.

yea, lift at least 2 days, and we are working on some bounding progression videos, hopefully have those out soon.

Thanks, and looking forward to those videos.

But, didn't you say in an earlier post that single leg bounding itself can help build strength, and actually help you go up in squats?  Or am I missing something?

And random question, while training for vertical jump (squat/weight room/plyo's), as my vert goes up, will my quickness go up as well?  I'm talking specifically in basketball.
THanks.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: dirksilver on May 16, 2011, 10:03:55 pm
so i did your bound progression for the first time today and man did i look like an idiot! hahaha i've never bounded before and i looked so freaking awkward...it's was bad...and people watched

oh well with time comes mastery and progress
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 10:20:19 pm
Actually, it just rained outside so I hadn't have the oportunity to do them... I will film them the next time I try them.

hah, hate when that happens, same thing happened to us last week on 40yd dash day at the field......... cool though, paste it in here if you want when you get a chance to do them.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 10:25:35 pm
Lance i was wondering what a depth jump progression would be like.


 You dont need to do intense depth jumps right now man, so low box depth jumps dont need much of a progression.

  I would do drops at a height slightly higher than the box youre going to use for the depth jumps, make sure youre landing perfectly, then progress to a.) depth jump with a slight bounce, b.) depth jump w/ tuck jump, c.) depth jump for max height.

(all this is referring to low box depth jumps, intense (~30 in and up) depth jumps are another animal) 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 10:29:44 pm
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently.

congrats on the 2 inch gain man, thats GREAT!@!  I would lift at least at least 2 days a week though, cutting it down to one day will be harder to still make strength gains which you still need at this point.  

Quote
You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.

yea, lift at least 2 days, and we are working on some bounding progression videos, hopefully have those out soon.

Thanks, and looking forward to those videos.

But, didn't you say in an earlier post that single leg bounding itself can help build strength, and actually help you go up in squats?  Or am I missing something?

 Yes they can for sure, but not as effeciently for YOU at YOUR LEVEL right now as the weight room can.  Look at the strength carry over you get from them as icing on the cake, not your bread and butter.



Quote
And random question, while training for vertical jump (squat/weight room/plyo's), as my vert goes up, will my quickness go up as well?  I'm talking specifically in basketball.
THanks.

  Your POTENTIAL for quickness will for sure, basketball quickness is very basketball specific, meaning you need to drill the exact movements you want to get quicker at over and over, with your newly found speed and strength.  
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 16, 2011, 10:34:34 pm
so i did your bound progression for the first time today and man did i look like an idiot! hahaha i've never bounded before and i looked so freaking awkward...it's was bad...and people watched

oh well with time comes mastery and progress


haha, dont worry about it man, bounding is a skill that you HAVE to practice specifically, to get really good at, so I guarantee you, 99.9% of those people watching you couldnt do any better and would probably be worse.  And yep, once you start getting better and better at them it will pay off big time in your speed, power, and athleticism. 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 17, 2011, 01:13:56 am
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently.

congrats on the 2 inch gain man, thats GREAT!@!  I would lift at least at least 2 days a week though, cutting it down to one day will be harder to still make strength gains which you still need at this point.  

Quote
You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.

yea, lift at least 2 days, and we are working on some bounding progression videos, hopefully have those out soon.

Thanks, and looking forward to those videos.

But, didn't you say in an earlier post that single leg bounding itself can help build strength, and actually help you go up in squats?  Or am I missing something?

 Yes they can for sure, but not as effeciently for YOU at YOUR LEVEL right now as the weight room can.  Look at the strength carry over you get from them as icing on the cake, not your bread and butter.



Quote
And random question, while training for vertical jump (squat/weight room/plyo's), as my vert goes up, will my quickness go up as well?  I'm talking specifically in basketball.
THanks.

  Your POTENTIAL for quickness will for sure, basketball quickness is very basketball specific, meaning you need to drill the exact movements you want to get quicker at over and over, with your newly found speed and strength.  

So at times when I have no access to a weight room, will Single Leg Bounding, help me at the very least maintain if not improve my lower body strength?

And, the quickness thing, so you're saying if I ever get my vert up to 42~" to dunk, I have the potential to be much quicker and faster in basketball?  But to do so, I gotta just keep practicing the specific moves/crossovers I wanna be quick at?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 17, 2011, 01:59:14 am
Hey Lance, been going through these bound cycles for a few weeks now, I'm getting better, but still needs work.  I did however PR with +2 inches on my single leg jump since I've been training with these bounds.  I usually do 3 cycles of all 3 types of single leg bounds with some sprints before and depth jumps after.

I have been doing plyo's/bounds on M/W/F, and lower body weight lifting T/TH/Sat, but I was thinking maybe lifting only on Saturday's.  I want to master bounding, and a lot of times, my legs are kinda sore on plyo days, even though I did low volume lifting the day before.  I think that slight soreness affects my explosiveness on my plyo days, and being sore affects my jump sessions and I did PR whenever I was jumping frequently.

congrats on the 2 inch gain man, thats GREAT!@!  I would lift at least at least 2 days a week though, cutting it down to one day will be harder to still make strength gains which you still need at this point.  

Quote
You think this is a good idea?  Just lift on Saturday's to maintain lower body strength, and master plyos' and bounds and high frequency on jumping?

Also, do you have any videos of the different bounds?  Max speed,height,distance?  I wanna know what my bounds are supposed to look like.

yea, lift at least 2 days, and we are working on some bounding progression videos, hopefully have those out soon.

Thanks, and looking forward to those videos.

But, didn't you say in an earlier post that single leg bounding itself can help build strength, and actually help you go up in squats?  Or am I missing something?

 Yes they can for sure, but not as effeciently for YOU at YOUR LEVEL right now as the weight room can.  Look at the strength carry over you get from them as icing on the cake, not your bread and butter.



Quote
And random question, while training for vertical jump (squat/weight room/plyo's), as my vert goes up, will my quickness go up as well?  I'm talking specifically in basketball.
THanks.

  Your POTENTIAL for quickness will for sure, basketball quickness is very basketball specific, meaning you need to drill the exact movements you want to get quicker at over and over, with your newly found speed and strength.  

So at times when I have no access to a weight room, will Single Leg Bounding, help me at the very least maintain if not improve my lower body strength?

Yes, assuming youre good enough at single leg bounding get any kind of stimulus from them.


Quote
And, the quickness thing, so you're saying if I ever get my vert up to 42~" to dunk, I have the potential to be much quicker and faster in basketball?  But to do so, I gotta just keep practicing the specific moves/crossovers I wanna be quick at?

doesnt matter what number, as long as youre getting stronger and faster, then yes.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 20, 2011, 12:44:58 am
Lance, just got to say, I love these single leg bounds, so thanks for putting them up.  I still suck at them, but I just love doing them for some reason.  And guess what, I PR'd with another inch now.  Obviously it wasn't JUST the bounds, but ever since I started them, and increased my jump session frequency, I did add 3".  My main focus right now, is to master these.  Can't wait for those bounding progression videos.  

But I had a question:  On each "bound", am I supposed to swing my arms and my other leg as I would in a SLRVJ?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: dirksilver on May 20, 2011, 12:59:16 am
this is a stupid question more likely than not but i'll ask none the less

do you think it's alright if i use my power jumper when i do my bounds to really overload everything and add resistance or should i wait until i've come a little closer to mastering them first?...i feel like i could kind of see the powerjumper actually making my bounds better for some reason...and i'm doing the double leg variety just so ya know
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 20, 2011, 01:09:01 am
this is a stupid question more likely than not but i'll ask none the less

do you think it's alright if i use my power jumper when i do my bounds to really overload everything and add resistance or should i wait until i've come a little closer to mastering them first?...i feel like i could kind of see the powerjumper actually making my bounds better for some reason...and i'm doing the double leg variety just so ya know

not a stupid question, and yes you can.  The powerjumper will make the shock portion less intense, and improve the "force" part, making your bounds stronger.  Just be sure to do them without it on as well.  Complexes with the power jumper on for a set, then off for a set work great.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 20, 2011, 01:10:28 am
Lance, just got to say, I love these single leg bounds, so thanks for putting them up.  I still suck at them, but I just love doing them for some reason.  And guess what, I PR'd with another inch now.  Obviously it wasn't JUST the bounds, but ever since I started them, and increased my jump session frequency, I did add 3".  My main focus right now, is to master these.  Can't wait for those bounding progression videos.  

But I had a question:  On each "bound", am I supposed to swing my arms and my other leg as I would in a SLRVJ?

NICE man, thats a very big improvement, 3 inches is no joke when it comes to jumping!  And yea, use the most powerful/coordinated arm swing you can muster up.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on May 20, 2011, 01:17:41 am
Lance, just got to say, I love these single leg bounds, so thanks for putting them up.  I still suck at them, but I just love doing them for some reason.  And guess what, I PR'd with another inch now.  Obviously it wasn't JUST the bounds, but ever since I started them, and increased my jump session frequency, I did add 3".  My main focus right now, is to master these.  Can't wait for those bounding progression videos.  

But I had a question:  On each "bound", am I supposed to swing my arms and my other leg as I would in a SLRVJ?

NICE man, thats a very big improvement, 3 inches is no joke when it comes to jumping!  And yea, use the most powerful/coordinated arm swing you can muster up.

Does that include a leg swing too, with the non bounding leg?

And, I'm doing 3 sets of all 3 types of bounds.  Is this enough per session, or would doing more be more beneficial?

Thanks.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 20, 2011, 03:49:11 am
Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 20, 2011, 04:29:01 am
Lance, just got to say, I love these single leg bounds, so thanks for putting them up.  I still suck at them, but I just love doing them for some reason.  And guess what, I PR'd with another inch now.  Obviously it wasn't JUST the bounds, but ever since I started them, and increased my jump session frequency, I did add 3".  My main focus right now, is to master these.  Can't wait for those bounding progression videos.  

But I had a question:  On each "bound", am I supposed to swing my arms and my other leg as I would in a SLRVJ?

NICE man, thats a very big improvement, 3 inches is no joke when it comes to jumping!  And yea, use the most powerful/coordinated arm swing you can muster up.

Does that include a leg swing too, with the non bounding leg?

And, I'm doing 3 sets of all 3 types of bounds.  Is this enough per session, or would doing more be more beneficial?

Thanks.

 Yea, leg swing of course, and yes, 3 rounds through the whole progression is plenty.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 20, 2011, 04:31:14 am
Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.


  Yea, practice single leg broad jumps, but land on two, with the double arm swing.  It will become more natural, then progress to single leg bounds, re setting by stopping, putting the hands on the ground in front of you each bound.  Finally put it into play in the full bounding.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 20, 2011, 05:03:15 am
Interesting, maybe you should make a video about this, it could help a lot of people.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 20, 2011, 05:21:38 am
Interesting, maybe you should make a video about this, it could help a lot of people.

We are working on a series of bounding progression videos, that will be in there for sure.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: dirksilver on May 21, 2011, 07:05:43 am
so i did the bounding workout again but this time both double and single leg with the power jumper...the single leg bounds are waaaaaay easier than the double though double leg jumping is my prefered jumping style so you'd think i'd be better at the double leg version...i didn't do them with out the powerjumper because i was pretty beat...does it work to do a session with the powerjumper and a session without...or should i do both in the same session but drop my volume on both?

also my right leg(i single leg jump off my left) seemed to hold up better than my left leg hahaa

my abs are sore already actually which is something i wasn't expecting...they were sore the last time i did the bounds but i didn't realize thats why they were sore...i think my ham strings are going to be pretty sore too...you were right about the strength stimulus thing!



Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.

funny i naturally do a double arm swing when bounding on my left leg(my primary jumping leg) and a single arm swing when i bound on the right...hmmm...curious
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 21, 2011, 04:04:14 pm
so i did the bounding workout again but this time both double and single leg with the power jumper...the single leg bounds are waaaaaay easier than the double though double leg jumping is my prefered jumping style so you'd think i'd be better at the double leg version...i didn't do them with out the powerjumper because i was pretty beat...does it work to do a session with the powerjumper and a session without...or should i do both in the same session but drop my volume on both?

also my right leg(i single leg jump off my left) seemed to hold up better than my left leg hahaa

my abs are sore already actually which is something i wasn't expecting...they were sore the last time i did the bounds but i didn't realize thats why they were sore...i think my ham strings are going to be pretty sore too...you were right about the strength stimulus thing!



Speaking of arm swing, is there any way to switch from a single arm swing to a double arm swing in single leg bounding? Any progression or just plain old practice of the movement?

My single arm swing resembles what happens in a sprint more than in a jump.

funny i naturally do a double arm swing when bounding on my left leg(my primary jumping leg) and a single arm swing when i bound on the right...hmmm...curious

  I would definitely do them both in contrast fashion (w/power jumper, then without) in the same session.  That way you benefit from the stim effect of the loaded sets immediately on the next unloaded sets. 

  Its usually easier for people to incorporate the double arm swing off the leg they plant with on a 2 leg jump, and will take more work on the other leg, dont you if you plant left- right or not but thats usually the case.  Either way you can get it down, just start with the single jumps until you feel comfortable with it.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 21, 2011, 04:52:36 pm
To me, if I try double arm swings in a maximal jump the jump leg is guaranteed to be overloaded and collapse.

So I think the key in getting this is to start submaximally and just focus on the arm swing while keeping the jumps short and not that tall (easy jumping) and increase jump amplitude over a few workouts.

Single arm swing does help me with dunking with the ball in hand though, since it makes the movement natural and easy.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 21, 2011, 08:01:24 pm
To me, if I try double arm swings in a maximal jump the jump leg is guaranteed to be overloaded and collapse.

So I think the key in getting this is to start submaximally and just focus on the arm swing while keeping the jumps short and not that tall (easy jumping) and increase jump amplitude over a few workouts.

Single arm swing does help me with dunking with the ball in hand though, since it makes the movement natural and easy.

so think about dunking the ball with two hands, off one leg...........
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 22, 2011, 05:38:57 am
To me, if I try double arm swings in a maximal jump the jump leg is guaranteed to be overloaded and collapse.

So I think the key in getting this is to start submaximally and just focus on the arm swing while keeping the jumps short and not that tall (easy jumping) and increase jump amplitude over a few workouts.

Single arm swing does help me with dunking with the ball in hand though, since it makes the movement natural and easy.

so think about dunking the ball with two hands, off one leg...........

Well I suck at that ;D
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 24, 2011, 02:20:33 pm
Quote
TRIED METRICS but, are you kidding me? The amortization time in the 2-leg bounds for length was about 1s long. Are you fucking kidding me? There's absolutely no chance of doing consecutive bounds, the overload on the legs from each landing is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too high. The same applies to vertical 2-leg bounds - incredibily long amortization time and incredibly un-coordinated.

I did not film them because anyone looking at that would puke on spot.

Then I did left leg single leg bounds and they were DECENT but not really good. The hamstrings started to fail at that point and the knee to collapse, even while decelerating from the bounds (after finishing them).

So I did 3 sets of single leg bounds on the left leg and that was it.

The hamstrings were failing like you couldn't believe.

COPY FROM MY LOG ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm doing swings every day by the way, 3x10 in the morning, and 2x5 one-leg straight leg deadlifts with the 24 kg kettlebell. Apparently, even with this low volume, my legs are failing.

How can I suck so much at squatting right now? I mean really? One month ago I was squatting 140 kg easy enough, and now I struggle to squat 100 kg (that feels like 130) for 4-5 reps? WHAT THE FUCK?!
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 24, 2011, 09:30:41 pm
Quote
TRIED METRICS but, are you kidding me? The amortization time in the 2-leg bounds for length was about 1s long. Are you fucking kidding me? There's absolutely no chance of doing consecutive bounds, the overload on the legs from each landing is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too high. The same applies to vertical 2-leg bounds - incredibily long amortization time and incredibly un-coordinated.

I did not film them because anyone looking at that would puke on spot.

Then I did left leg single leg bounds and they were DECENT but not really good. The hamstrings started to fail at that point and the knee to collapse, even while decelerating from the bounds (after finishing them).

So I did 3 sets of single leg bounds on the left leg and that was it.

The hamstrings were failing like you couldn't believe.

COPY FROM MY LOG ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm doing swings every day by the way, 3x10 in the morning, and 2x5 one-leg straight leg deadlifts with the 24 kg kettlebell. Apparently, even with this low volume, my legs are failing.

How can I suck so much at squatting right now? I mean really? One month ago I was squatting 140 kg easy enough, and now I struggle to squat 100 kg (that feels like 130) for 4-5 reps? WHAT THE FUCK?!

Im gonna go through your log more in depth later tonight, see if we can figure out for SURE what the deal is, it sounds like youre just starting to adapt to extra workload from all the gpp and bounding, but I want to look more carefully to be sure, Ill reply later on.  The bounding is a pretty intense STRENGTH stimulus too, especially the single leg bounds, so that may be it, youre just getting used to the extra volume.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 25, 2011, 03:52:56 am
Well when I did my squat sets last friday I wasn't bounding or doing any plyos (it was raining so I couldn't) and yet 6 reps was a lot to deal with. It doesn't make sense for the bar to feel as heavy on the back either.

UNLESS MY INJURY IS NOT 100% recovered from. I don't know. Could the KB swings take so much out of me? Just 3 sets of 10 every day? I mean wtf?

Truth be told, it kinda feels that way, but still.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 27, 2011, 02:42:21 pm
ok sorry it took so long man, but yea, you just came off that injury + added gpp + the injured area likely not wanting to fire 100% for a short while after will definitely cause you to have a little performance drop.  I wouldnt stop doing what youre doing now though, I think youve needed to get your gpp up for a while, and I dont think it will be long at all before you start hitting pr's on the squat, the bounding will actually HELP you do this, if you stick with it long enough to adapt.

  One thing that might you help you is to focus on building up to ONE MAIN SET of squats, where you try to pr either by reps or by weight lifted, and then backing down a little and getting your volume in.  That type of set up is hard to beat since you get plenty of volume for hypertrophy in, and youre only asking a PR set on ONE set total, in the workout. 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 27, 2011, 03:57:11 pm
What rep range would you choose for hypertrophy?

Should I go with a top set of say 5 and then back down to a 2x8?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 27, 2011, 04:39:24 pm
By the way, I think I'll use the full squat for muscle building one day (Tuesday) and half squat for explosiveness (with a lower weight) on Friday. I mean, it makes sense to me at this point in time where I want to play Saturday and Sunday.

Also, I think I'll do some low box depth jumps + half squats (adarqui's LTMP) + one-leg explosive box squats everyday with KB swings after coming home (low volume). Those things shouldn't generate too much soreness done everyday or CNS fatigue (low volumes of course, say 1-2 sets at most of each).
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 27, 2011, 05:22:49 pm
What rep range would you choose for hypertrophy?

Should I go with a top set of say 5 and then back down to a 2x8?

I would go with a top set of anywhere between 3-5 reps, occasionally even 1 rep if youre feeling your oats or you want to see where youre at.  This is important though, dont GRIND out reps, for more than one set.  In a perfect world you would never grind them out, but if you go up to a top weight and it happens, just dont do that weight again, drop the poundage, drop a rep,  or stop. Thats going to be KEY in using a higher frequency approach like youre planning.  Back down sets can be 5-8 etc., same thing, sub max, not to failure.   

Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on May 27, 2011, 05:30:24 pm
By the way, I think I'll use the full squat for muscle building one day (Tuesday) and half squat for explosiveness (with a lower weight) on Friday. I mean, it makes sense to me at this point in time where I want to play Saturday and Sunday.

yep, i like that idea, good that you have the full squat on tues and the half on friday too, should work well for you.

Quote
Also, I think I'll do some low box depth jumps + half squats (adarqui's LTMP) + one-leg explosive box squats everyday with KB swings after coming home (low volume). Those things shouldn't generate too much soreness done everyday or CNS fatigue (low volumes of course, say 1-2 sets at most of each).

1-2 sets should be perfectly fine, just build up INTENSITY slowly, with very high frequency training youll be surprised how much benefit you can get from solid sub max but explosive work, and how quickly you can burn yourself out if you start "grinding" or use too high of an intensity to begin with.

  To be honest, if youre doing the bounding template 3x a week + lifting 3x a week, you reall dont need much else, that would push your gpp and explosive work capacity to its limits, while still allowing progression assuming you dont go crazy on the volume of strength work.  An extra sub max recovery workout with strength training exercises can be added here and there but in all honesty youve got 6 days of SOLID training in there to begin with, and thats more than enough.  Keep the kb swings though, with your breathing and things youve talked about + knee issues I think those are going to be a gold mine for you in the long run, and theyre very easy to recover from regardless.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on May 27, 2011, 07:26:56 pm
Well I recover kinda bad after KB swings but I'll keep doing them until my body eventually adapts to them in some way.

In terms of bounding, bilateral bounds, of any kind, are impossible at the moment because the amortization phase is incredibly long. It's like when you put a good standing vertical jump guy to do consecutive maximal (or even submaximal) jumps - he will suck very hard at them. I don't load at all on any of them. It's basically a jump, a crash, a reset and then repeat.

And then I can't do single leg bounding on my right leg. So as you can see, things are pretty messed up. My idea is to keep on doing sprints first, then do limited bounding. And by limited I mean say 3 bounds. And focus on these 3 to do them quick and powerful and all that. When I can do them well I increase to four and so on. Also it might be a good idea to do some sort of tuck jumps of jumps on spot (say jumps at the rim) for a while until I can at least take in SOME energy before and after each subsequent jump.

It still doesn't make any sense whatsoever why is the bilateral jump, of any kind, so unnatural. I guess because people (me) walk unilaterally, they don't hop on the streets on two feet. A one-leg jump is simple because it's just an exaggerated natural movement, an exaggerated "step". To me, at least.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on June 04, 2011, 12:45:29 am
Hey Lance, during the summer, I'm not going to have access to bball courts or a field or anything, so I was going to primarily focus on getting my strength up, since that is my biggest weakness. 

My question is, from all the gains and benefits I've gotten over the past month from doing your single leg bounding cycle, will that go to waste if I don't bound or jump anymore? 

What if I do stuff like single leg tuck jumps?  Will that help me maintain the reactive & explosive strength & force absorption ability that I've gotten with single leg bounds?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 05, 2011, 12:53:27 am
Hey Lance, during the summer, I'm not going to have access to bball courts or a field or anything, so I was going to primarily focus on getting my strength up, since that is my biggest weakness. 

My question is, from all the gains and benefits I've gotten over the past month from doing your single leg bounding cycle, will that go to waste if I don't bound or jump anymore? 

That will depend on how long you go without jumping maximally, and bounding.  You will definitely start to detrain after a long enough time away from any type of jumping.



Quote
What if I do stuff like single leg tuck jumps?  Will that help me maintain the reactive & explosive strength & force absorption ability that I've gotten with single leg bounds?

The mechanics of single leg tuck jumps, single leg pogos, etc., are so different than the mechanics of a bound or single leg running jump that they dont do much to help it after the initial stages.  They are a much better exercise for double leg jumps IMO.  It doesnt take much space to bound some, and even if you only have 15 yds of space or so, you can do a triple bound, etc., and turn around, go back the other way.


 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 05, 2011, 04:58:22 am
I never regressed at my one leg jump even after 3-4 months of not jumping almost at all... so you might be the same.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on June 05, 2011, 06:07:10 am
I never regressed at my one leg jump even after 3-4 months of not jumping almost at all... so you might be the same.

Wow really?  this 3-4 months of almost no jumping at all was after some time of making progress?  Or during untrained years?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on June 05, 2011, 06:08:40 am
Hey Lance, during the summer, I'm not going to have access to bball courts or a field or anything, so I was going to primarily focus on getting my strength up, since that is my biggest weakness. 

My question is, from all the gains and benefits I've gotten over the past month from doing your single leg bounding cycle, will that go to waste if I don't bound or jump anymore? 

That will depend on how long you go without jumping maximally, and bounding.  You will definitely start to detrain after a long enough time away from any type of jumping.



Quote
What if I do stuff like single leg tuck jumps?  Will that help me maintain the reactive & explosive strength & force absorption ability that I've gotten with single leg bounds?

The mechanics of single leg tuck jumps, single leg pogos, etc., are so different than the mechanics of a bound or single leg running jump that they dont do much to help it after the initial stages.  They are a much better exercise for double leg jumps IMO.  It doesnt take much space to bound some, and even if you only have 15 yds of space or so, you can do a triple bound, etc., and turn around, go back the other way.


 

It will be a span of 8 weeks.  If I do detrain, which I probably will, I'm assuming like with almost all things related to muscles, single leg bounding progression, etc... will come back faster than before because of muscle memory AND being stronger than before?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 05, 2011, 06:18:07 am
I never regressed at my one leg jump even after 3-4 months of not jumping almost at all... so you might be the same.

Wow really?  this 3-4 months of almost no jumping at all was after some time of making progress?  Or during untrained years?

Well during the winter I don't have a gym to play into, so I limit my training to strength only.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on June 05, 2011, 06:23:05 am
I never regressed at my one leg jump even after 3-4 months of not jumping almost at all... so you might be the same.

Wow really?  this 3-4 months of almost no jumping at all was after some time of making progress?  Or during untrained years?

Well during the winter I don't have a gym to play into, so I limit my training to strength only.

Oh I see.  How about your 2 leg jumps, did they regress?  This my first time in my life I won't be playing bball regularly, so it's going to be weird.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 05, 2011, 07:07:28 am
First off, I can't understand how you aren't able to play ball during the summer. No outside courts near you?

But no, 2-leg jumps should improve if my strength improves, so...
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 05, 2011, 11:32:27 am
I never regressed at my one leg jump even after 3-4 months of not jumping almost at all... so you might be the same.

Wow really?  this 3-4 months of almost no jumping at all was after some time of making progress?  Or during untrained years?


right, if youre referring to recent progress made by TRAINING, its much different than saying "I didnt lose any height on my jump".  I had a teamate that could jump very close to 50 who didnt do shit but smoke weed and play basketball, he would not play for long periods of time, come back in the gym, and jump just as high as he ever did.  Gains from training are different, and at the very LEAST, need time for the body to stabilize and get used to them.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 05, 2011, 12:54:28 pm
Yeah I think I come back to what I'm able to do regardless of training, probably just due to structure and technique alone (and just my natural level of strength or whatever).
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 07, 2011, 02:29:13 pm
Two legs bounds from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XWtVd8Qdo

Sometimes I land deep (as in a full squat) and that seriously hurts my knees... I feel like the whole tension is being taken by the articulations (knee ligaments etc) instead of being amortizated by the quads. Should the glutes/other muscles get involved in the amortization of these bounds off two feet? Because I don't think so, pretty much the quads (that as you can see, don't do a particularly great job of amortizating).

This was by far my best set (the only one I filmed by the way) - so you can imagine how the others sucked hard.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 07, 2011, 04:25:25 pm
Two legs bounds from today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XWtVd8Qdo

Sometimes I land deep (as in a full squat) and that seriously hurts my knees... I feel like the whole tension is being taken by the articulations (knee ligaments etc) instead of being amortizated by the quads. Should the glutes/other muscles get involved in the amortization of these bounds off two feet? Because I don't think so, pretty much the quads (that as you can see, don't do a particularly great job of amortizating).

The hamstrings have to stay "stiff" followed by the quads, to prevent what youre referring to, but the glutes are primarily involved in the take off, although they will be involved in the amortization of the landing they are usually not the weak link in the chain, the hamstrings are.

Quote
This was by far my best set (the only one I filmed by the way) - so you can imagine how the others sucked hard.

  That set looked pretty good to me, youre taking a little longer to transition than you need to be but that will come with training them.  Definitely looks a LOT better than the last bounds I saw from you a while back. Nice work.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 07, 2011, 05:08:55 pm
It's silly, but if you look, after my first jump I land with the right leg a bit forward as in a LR plant... I kind of do that naturally, not sure if it's automatically to protect my right knee or if it just comes because I naturally plant LR.

They sure are better than THIS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLz7NOKVTJw

 :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm: :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 09, 2011, 03:36:06 pm
Filmed a bit more stuff today:

30m sprint:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYlDjOvWBZ8

Weak sprint start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cryq2nDeqGo

Single leg bounds side angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu1Ef72ZDmI

Single leg bounds back angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU2EQxVr3o8

Single leg bounds front angle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SgHm_WglJw

Double leg bounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H66PNO4kpQ

Any comments/suggestions?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 09, 2011, 04:02:57 pm
 On the sprint, its hard to tell from that video, but it looks like youre getting into top speed mechanics too early, try to stay down a little longer at the start, once you raise up and get into top speed form, its hard to accelerate anymore.


Double leg bounds are getting better and better, one thing that will help you is getting the hip flexors more active in the air, get the legs into landing mode a little earlier and the time spent amortizing between landings will be cut down drastically.   Definitely better and better each time youve posted, so good work there.


Single leg bounds- pretty good, youre pelvis is shifting more than it needs to though, youre allowing the hips to kick back on landing, taking a lot of the glute out of the bound.  I would advise that you do both single leg bounds for distance, and single leg bounds for height, then combine the two eventually into a finished product, but atm your form is going to break down if you try and combine max height/distance in the same set.  Focus on keeping the hips stationary, the low abs/psoas have to be turned on hard, and the pelvis needs to be "locked" into place.  Think about not letting your pelvis move throughout the entire set. The less the hips sink on landing, the better.  Youre likely going to have to do this sub maximally for a while, but it will pay off in the end.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 09, 2011, 04:37:01 pm
My knees are really going forward on my two leg bounds... probably the arm swing isn't timed perfectly either, so that increases my amortization phase time.

But I really agree with what you're saying.

In the sprint, I naturally feel that I should straighten up immediately... so I only stay down because I voluntarily want to stay there. Otherwise I'd be tall after my first step.

What I don't understand is what you're saying about the pelvis... I'm not aware of what is wrong with my one leg bounds. Not letting the pelvis move = ? You mean, I should focus more on using a straight leg instead of letting the hips lower and load? That would mean high hips and that would be really weird, for the people I've seen they almost all load the leg and release that energy with quite a bit of bend in that leg.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 09, 2011, 05:10:56 pm
My knees are really going forward on my two leg bounds... probably the arm swing isn't timed perfectly either, so that increases my amortization phase time.

 right, the kness go way forward because youre not getting your legs into landing position in the air, when you land, your torso is already too far over your center of mass.

Quote
But I really agree with what you're saying.

In the sprint, I naturally feel that I should straighten up immediately... so I only stay down because I voluntarily want to stay there. Otherwise I'd be tall after my first step.

 yea, youre gonna have to change that if you want to get better at it.  Try doing sled drags, (tire with a rope, have nightfly hold a band on you, etc.) for a while, that will help.

Quote
What I don't understand is what you're saying about the pelvis... I'm not aware of what is wrong with my one leg bounds. Not letting the pelvis move = ? You mean, I should focus more on using a straight leg instead of letting the hips lower and load? That would mean high hips and that would be really weird, for the people I've seen they almost all load the leg and release that energy with quite a bit of bend in that leg.

Pelvic control is keeping the PELVIS in neutral, regardless of how much the LEGS move.  Your PELVIS is kicking back, taking out much of the gluteal contribution, the pelvis needs to stay neutral, not shifting back, forward, or side to side.  This is one of the easiest errors to spot when watching bounds, you just have to look for it. Im not at all saying you need a stiff leg bound, im saying dont allow the HIPS to kick back, causing you to lean forward more and abosorb the force with the low back/hamstrings, instead of keeping the glute in a power position to turn around force.  There will sometimes be what looks like a slight shift in good athletes bound, but if you examine it more carefully it doesnt shift backwards upon landing which would cause a dissipation of force, rather they tend to look slightly more posterior rotated from the get go.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 09, 2011, 06:04:06 pm
Hm... I think it makes sense. But the problem will be putting that into actual practice. Even if I want to, I might not be able to do it.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 09, 2011, 08:21:01 pm
Hm... I think it makes sense. But the problem will be putting that into actual practice. Even if I want to, I might not be able to do it.

  I promise you those videos are coming, I had a ton on my plate this last couple of weeks but Ive got things organized and going smooth, and I should have a couple ready by the end of next week.  It will be much easier for me to show you through demonstration than I can convey into a post, and several of the anti rotational exercises and drills will be aimed at that very portion you are having trouble with, since its an extremely common issue.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Nightfly on June 20, 2011, 05:46:45 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm03Gu_bMrE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gk8gj95FJFk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78J8-sm03_c

What do you think form-wise about these? What should i do to improve?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 20, 2011, 11:12:53 pm
 2 leg bounds look good, one leg look good too but go for more height.  Think "hangtime" each bound, that will increase the intensity a lot though so you may want to adjust the speed of your run in at first.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 21, 2011, 03:12:36 am
With his two leg bounds - his feet are rotating out (heels coming in) A LOT. A LOT = A LOT.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 21, 2011, 08:11:13 am
With his two leg bounds - his feet are rotating out (heels coming in) A LOT. A LOT = A LOT.


 Leg curls with the toes turned inwards, at the end of every lower body workout.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 21, 2011, 08:21:31 am
Yeah, I know, and he knows, but unfortunately there isn't a leg curl machine in there. How about toes-in RDLs?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 21, 2011, 08:34:01 am
Yeah, I know, and he knows, but unfortunately there isn't a leg curl machine in there. How about toes-in RDLs?

 You can do that but go light and be careful, many times the athlete is already weak in that position and since they cant externally rotate the feet to compensate, they will try and compensate with the low back.  Holding a dumbell between the feet doing lying leg curls is one of the most underrated ways to fix this, you inherently HAVE to force a toes in position to keep the dumbell in place.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 21, 2011, 12:58:31 pm
Yeah that's smart ^^^

It could work with a med ball too if you have one.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 21, 2011, 10:02:41 pm
Yeah that's smart ^^^

It could work with a med ball too if you have one.


 Med ball would do the trick initially, but you can get pretty strong in this movement once you train it for a while and the dumbell allows a much greater load to be used and held securely.  The only issue you run into once you start getting into the bigger dumbells is having a training partner there to place it in between your feet for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1aZYFHhSII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1aZYFHhSII&feature=player_detailpage


Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Nightfly on June 30, 2011, 04:15:35 pm
i now have a gym ownership and i do the leg curls at the machine there and it's ok.

What do you think about these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FHCyU3pe-Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VOSw9XQxB8
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 30, 2011, 06:05:28 pm

  First one looks good, I wouldnt spend too much time on those type drills right now if you are wanting to long jump, I would get really good at short approaches, get your steps down pat, make sure youre getting as much of the board as possible,  then gradually move to a longer approach.

  On the second video, or any single leg drop jumps, make sure to push off the box slightly with the trailing foot when you leave the box.  Otherwise youre basically just taking a slightly exaggerated step and not really falling from a greater height.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Nightfly on June 30, 2011, 06:15:07 pm
Ok. I'm good with short approaches i need to transition to longer run-ups... I'm also running very slow into my jump, not only at lj but also in dunking. My 2 legged approaches are basically svj with one small drop step :(
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on June 30, 2011, 06:33:49 pm
Ok. I'm good with short approaches i need to transition to longer run-ups... I'm also running very slow into my jump, not only at lj but also in dunking. My 2 legged approaches are basically svj with one small drop step :(

Sorry but "logical logic" calls for you to actually start to do longer approach 2 footed dunks and try to increase speed on them gradually if that's the aim.

I think one way other than doing this ^^^ is to go with hurdle hops, say 3 hurdles, starting with a small hurdle and finishing with a tall hurdle.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on June 30, 2011, 09:46:28 pm
Ok. I'm good with short approaches i need to transition to longer run-ups... I'm also running very slow into my jump, not only at lj but also in dunking. My 2 legged approaches are basically svj with one small drop step :(

Sorry but "logical logic" calls for you to actually start to do longer approach 2 footed dunks and try to increase speed on them gradually if that's the aim.

I think one way other than doing this ^^^ is to go with hurdle hops, say 3 hurdles, starting with a small hurdle and finishing with a tall hurdle.

 He just said "im good with short approaches i need to transition to longer run-ups".  Which would imply he knows that he needs to work on longer approaches. Maybe I missed something?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on July 01, 2011, 04:12:28 am
What I meant is - he's missing the point about DUNKING. He's like "hm... I have a bad approach when it comes to dunking".

"Maybe I should do long jumps in the sand pit, jumps over boxes at higher speeds, this, that". How about just using a longer approach to ACTUAL DUNKS?!
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 01, 2011, 04:21:02 am
What I meant is - he's missing the point about DUNKING. He's like "hm... I have a bad approach when it comes to dunking".

"Maybe I should do long jumps in the sand pit, jumps over boxes at higher speeds, this, that". How about just using a longer approach to ACTUAL DUNKS?!


 ah, I thought he was wanting to long jump.  But for sure, practicing the actual event of dunking  is going to help out a lot more.

 The long jumps will help the single leg jump a ton though but you still need to take it to the court to convert.  Triple jumps will help the hell out of the speed youre able to approach with in the single leg jump just from getting insanely good at absorbing force and putting it back out.  Just make sure you do plenty of actual dunking and bounding for max HEIGHT as well. Get the best of both worlds that way.  

Hes got potential in those events if he wants to pursue them and compete unattached or something at a meet eventually.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on July 01, 2011, 05:04:56 am
Well he said, and I quote:

Quote
not only at lj but also in dunking. My 2 legged approaches are basically svj with one small drop step

So he definitely still cares about dunking.^^^

He pretends not to though. GOTCHA!

Anyway, what's annoying about Nightfly is that he has this idea that if he doesn't squat for 314234.2342 s he's magically going to become non-athletic. He really believes it's the squat that potentiates him and that without it he will jump 10 inches less in 1 day of non-squatting. This, in my opinion, has really wrecked his reactivity and not only that (although not so dramatically) - he should focus much more on reactive stuff and stay away from squatting for a while. Make his body understand and use the tendons more at this point where everything is strength-driven.

He should maybe work out to a "speed" daily max in the squat (as soon as the speed of the next set/weight is visibly slower than the set before stop immediately) and then do plyos. Stay away from grinding squats and get reactive. At his strength levels (400x5 half squat at 185 lbs bodyweight) he should REALLY focus on plyos.

What I propose is this:

Squat: 50x5, 80x3, 100x3, 120x1, 130x1 (speed is visibly slower than in the 120 kg set, stop) <--- very low volumes
Plyos/Power workout/Go dunk.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Nightfly on July 02, 2011, 05:24:19 am
F@#% dunking. I'm already doing low volumes on squat. I'll try to improve my long approaches in long jumps so i can long jump beter  :pissed:
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on July 22, 2011, 03:52:05 pm
Hey Lance, just a quick question about single leg bounding.  Assuming later on, I get pretty good at all 3 variations, like I can do 10 consecutive bounds of each without much problem.  At this stage, would you advise "combining" all 3 variations, as in  on each bound go for max height distance AND speed?  Or does that not work and should I just keep on doing all 3 variations?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 22, 2011, 04:16:06 pm
Hey Lance, just a quick question about single leg bounding.  Assuming later on, I get pretty good at all 3 variations, like I can do 10 consecutive bounds of each without much problem.  At this stage, would you advise "combining" all 3 variations, as in  on each bound go for max height distance AND speed?  Or does that not work and should I just keep on doing all 3 variations?


absolutely, once you are able to do each one of the variations fluently and in solid technique, you want to do some all out bounding for height/distance/speed combined.  Its always good to include each variation though, you will never get as high as you get when you focus specifically on max height, and never get as far as you can get when you focus on max distance.

there is a more advanced progression to this workout that I used with some of the high level track and field athletes but I havent posted it because everyone will jump right into that without mastering the basics first.  Once you are very good at bounding, there are some even higher intensity/ highly advanced bounding drills that can be extremely beneficial to single leg jumping athletes, but they would be a waste of time and dangerous before the first progressions are mastered.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on July 22, 2011, 05:19:34 pm
What about using boxes? Jumping and landing on the same leg on and off boxes would definitely be more intense.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 22, 2011, 10:27:20 pm
What about using boxes? Jumping and landing on the same leg on and off boxes would definitely be more intense.


 jumping and landing off boxes HIGHER than youre capable of bounding would be more intense, and yes, there are some drop jumping variations that are very useful for the single leg jump.  Overspeed, resisted, loaded,  contrast sets, etc., all more advanced variations but not needed until bounding is mastered.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on July 23, 2011, 01:46:51 pm
I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 23, 2011, 07:39:33 pm
I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

yep.

Quote
A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.

For most the guys starting out trying to improve their single leg vertical jump that is a very good combination provided you added in a hip dominant glute and ham exercise, and a calf exercise.

Not necessarily true for everyone though.  The best exercise for improving anything is the exercise that best improves what is holding the athlete back though.  For some this could mean a bent leg 1 leg hyper, for others it could be a type of calf raise.  Squats are good if done correctly for strengthening the entire muscular chain, but at higher levels of sport more specialization becomes more important to see continued improvements.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on July 23, 2011, 07:49:06 pm
I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

yep.

Quote
A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.

For most the guys starting out trying to improve their single leg vertical jump that is a very good combination provided you added in a hip dominant glute and ham exercise, and a calf exercise.

Not necessarily true for everyone though.  The best exercise for improving anything is the exercise that best improves what is holding the athlete back though.  For some this could mean a bent leg 1 leg hyper, for others it could be a type of calf raise.  Squats are good if done correctly for strengthening the entire muscular chain, but at higher levels of sport more specialization becomes more important to see continued improvements.

If you're going deep enough on squats so that your hamstrings and glutes are being worked, wouldn't that be good enough to not include a ham/glute exercise?  Or would the quads strength go up faster than the hams/glutes and eventually have an imbalance?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 23, 2011, 08:03:01 pm
I'm finally starting to realize how great single leg bounding really is lol.  It does a tremendous job training your body for force absorption, eccentric overload, eccentric/reactive strength, RFD, and even pure strength.  I would say for a single leg jumper, single leg bounding is the #1 best plyometric exercise there is.  

yep.

Quote
A single leg jumper can have a complete training routine with just 3 exercises in squat, bound, practice jump/dunk lol.

For most the guys starting out trying to improve their single leg vertical jump that is a very good combination provided you added in a hip dominant glute and ham exercise, and a calf exercise.

Not necessarily true for everyone though.  The best exercise for improving anything is the exercise that best improves what is holding the athlete back though.  For some this could mean a bent leg 1 leg hyper, for others it could be a type of calf raise.  Squats are good if done correctly for strengthening the entire muscular chain, but at higher levels of sport more specialization becomes more important to see continued improvements.

If you're going deep enough on squats so that your hamstrings and glutes are being worked, wouldn't that be good enough to not include a ham/glute exercise?  Or would the quads strength go up faster than the hams/glutes and eventually have an imbalance?

 It will for a while, the bounds themselves will improve hamstring and glute strength as well.  Some people get a ton of glute/hamstring involvement in their squats and some do not.  I had real good results with using a low bar position on an olympic style squat for the single leg jumpers, that style of squat FOR SURE improved the hamstring and glute strength measurably.  It is a much more knee friendly squat as well and actually served as a pre/rehab tool for beat up knees.

Some athletes dont get a lot of glute ham involvement in their squats, and need supplemental exercises to complement their training.   regardless of squat style or form, eventually SOMETHING will become the weak link holding you back, hell even in the squat, the actual squat itself is not holding you back from lifting more weight, its usually a single issue like the glutes, the quads, or the hams.  Once you fix that weak link you go to the next weakest and continue that process. 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: TKXII on July 24, 2011, 11:44:52 pm
I'd just like to say that my 2 footed one step vert has been responding very well to bounding (max bounding, max height or distance) this summer. I believe it is because it's working my hips more than I traditionally have and my vert in the past was not very hip dominant but is becoming more now.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on July 24, 2011, 11:49:58 pm
I'd just like to say that my 2 footed one step vert has been responding very well to bounding (max bounding, max height or distance) this summer. I believe it is because it's working my hips more than I traditionally have and my vert in the past was not very hip dominant but is becoming more now.

yea, the workout posted is for both double and single leg jumps, bounding will benefit double leg jumps a lot, especially focusing on both max height and distance.  Most are either lacking in hip extension or knee extension or both, so practicing going for distance as well as for height gives you the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on August 01, 2011, 09:46:45 am
Lance, sorry, I know you already answered this, but just to clarify and I need some advice.  So basically, I've cleaned up my diet and working out hard, and been PR'ing my squat and dead lift like crazy lately.  What sucks is they're refurbishing the weight room or something and its closed from tomorrow until the 10th of August.  The good news is, I found out that the one single basketball court over here is actually open after 4 pm, (before it is used for kids and badminton/table tennis) lol, and I am going to do single leg bounds again. 

This gym has a bootleg weight room next to it, only machines.  No dumbbells, barbells, nothing.  It has a squat machine (not smith).

What do you suggest I do?  Until the 10th should I just single leg bound 3-4x a week with some other plyo's until the 10th and then resume my 3x/week lifting + bounds OR should I do the single leg bounds until the 10th with the squat machine on the off days?

I am pretty pissed I have to stall my strength gains, but hopefully the single leg bounds will help me maintain my squat and dead lift if not improve?  If its not enough, should I add the squat machine?  (I have to check, I don't even know if it goes heavy enough lol)

Thanks Lance.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 01, 2011, 01:01:35 pm
Lance, sorry, I know you already answered this, but just to clarify and I need some advice.  So basically, I've cleaned up my diet and working out hard, and been PR'ing my squat and dead lift like crazy lately.  What sucks is they're refurbishing the weight room or something and its closed from tomorrow until the 10th of August.  The good news is, I found out that the one single basketball court over here is actually open after 4 pm, (before it is used for kids and badminton/table tennis) lol, and I am going to do single leg bounds again. 

This gym has a bootleg weight room next to it, only machines.  No dumbbells, barbells, nothing.  It has a squat machine (not smith).

What do you suggest I do?  Until the 10th should I just single leg bound 3-4x a week with some other plyo's until the 10th and then resume my 3x/week lifting + bounds OR should I do the single leg bounds until the 10th with the squat machine on the off days?

I am pretty pissed I have to stall my strength gains, but hopefully the single leg bounds will help me maintain my squat and dead lift if not improve?  If its not enough, should I add the squat machine?  (I have to check, I don't even know if it goes heavy enough lol)

Thanks Lance.


Link me a picture of what the squat machine looks like.  Some are ok, some are horrible. 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on August 01, 2011, 01:19:02 pm
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/un/unique-strength-l016-iso-lever-squat-machine.jpg

there wasnt any picture of the exact one, but it's structured like this, but you don't load it with plates.  It has a set amount of weights you pin.  I don't remember how much the weight goes up to, but if it's not within my 70-80% 1RM, should I bother with it, ASSUMING you recommend I DO squat with the machine for the 9 days?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 01, 2011, 02:49:56 pm
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/un/unique-strength-l016-iso-lever-squat-machine.jpg

there wasnt any picture of the exact one, but it's structured like this, but you don't load it with plates.  It has a set amount of weights you pin.  I don't remember how much the weight goes up to, but if it's not within my 70-80% 1RM, should I bother with it, ASSUMING you recommend I DO squat with the machine for the 9 days?

Yea, thats one of the better made squat machines. Youre a single leg jumper, so you dont need to worry about how heavy the stack goes, do them unilaterally.  Do explosive sets of 5 each leg, and be sure to put youre feet high up on the platform.  That machine allows the hips to go back, unlike many of them, so it will have its uses. 
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: D4 on August 01, 2011, 03:15:43 pm
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/un/unique-strength-l016-iso-lever-squat-machine.jpg

there wasnt any picture of the exact one, but it's structured like this, but you don't load it with plates.  It has a set amount of weights you pin.  I don't remember how much the weight goes up to, but if it's not within my 70-80% 1RM, should I bother with it, ASSUMING you recommend I DO squat with the machine for the 9 days?

Yea, thats one of the better made squat machines. Youre a single leg jumper, so you dont need to worry about how heavy the stack goes, do them unilaterally.  Do explosive sets of 5 each leg, and be sure to put youre feet high up on the platform.  That machine allows the hips to go back, unlike many of them, so it will have its uses. 

So I'll be doing sort of BSS's every other day, with single leg bounds on the alternate days yes?  This should be enough to maintain my squat AND dead lift numbers?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 01, 2011, 04:06:13 pm
http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/un/unique-strength-l016-iso-lever-squat-machine.jpg

there wasnt any picture of the exact one, but it's structured like this, but you don't load it with plates.  It has a set amount of weights you pin.  I don't remember how much the weight goes up to, but if it's not within my 70-80% 1RM, should I bother with it, ASSUMING you recommend I DO squat with the machine for the 9 days?

Yea, thats one of the better made squat machines. Youre a single leg jumper, so you dont need to worry about how heavy the stack goes, do them unilaterally.  Do explosive sets of 5 each leg, and be sure to put youre feet high up on the platform.  That machine allows the hips to go back, unlike many of them, so it will have its uses. 

So I'll be doing sort of BSS's every other day, with single leg bounds on the alternate days yes?  This should be enough to maintain my squat AND dead lift numbers?

 It wont be a bss, it will feel much different but do the job well.  Youre squat may even improve, it may not, but it should be adequate to continue improving your JUMP.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: PointerRyan on April 11, 2012, 09:35:07 am
hey lance just wondering, if on days its raining and can't find 30yards of space, how many reps should i target for the bounds? also, for double leg bounding for height, distance, do i go down to half squat ,lower, or above half squat?
single leg i'm guessing your legs pretty straight, a little bent right?

how about the speed bounding for two legs? how far should i go down?


thanks
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 11, 2012, 06:22:56 pm
hey lance just wondering, if on days its raining and can't find 30yards of space, how many reps should i target for the bounds? also, for double leg bounding for height, distance, do i go down to half squat ,lower, or above half squat?
single leg i'm guessing your legs pretty straight, a little bent right?

how about the speed bounding for two legs? how far should i go down?


thanks

 Do sets of 8 if you cant get accurate distancing.

 Depth on 2legs is  individual, dont think,  just  jump as high and far as you can, fast.

 Single leg your goal is to ricochet off the ground, not  bend down and "push".
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: creativelyric on April 12, 2012, 02:41:45 am
Yo, Lance, wassup. I've been doing sprints for a few weeks now (been mixing it up with standing 2 pt. starts and sprints coming in from a jog) and feeling good about improvements in my speed. Would it be beneficial to add bounding to the sprinting that I already do, though?
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 12, 2012, 04:06:10 pm
Yo, Lance, wassup. I've been doing sprints for a few weeks now (been mixing it up with standing 2 pt. starts and sprints coming in from a jog) and feeling good about improvements in my speed. Would it be beneficial to add bounding to the sprinting that I already do, though?

 Depends on how much volume youre doing with the sprints alone. The  bounding can help potentiate the sprints if you complex sets  between the two.  It will definitely help your  jumping.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: Raptor on April 12, 2012, 04:35:33 pm
Would you do sprints before bounds (if you're to do them separately) or bounds before sprints? I personally do sprints before bounds because I get warmed up well after sprints.
Title: Re: SOME JUMP/ PLYO/ EXPLOSIVE STRENGTH WORKOUTS
Post by: LanceSTS on April 12, 2012, 05:19:55 pm
Would you do sprints before bounds (if you're to do them separately) or bounds before sprints? I personally do sprints before bounds because I get warmed up well after sprints.


   It depends on which one you really want to push... If youre more concerned with your  jumps, then sprint/ bound, using the sprints as potentiation.  For sprinters we do it vice versa.