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Blog Section => LanceSTS's Performance Blog => Topic started by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 02:11:22 am

Title: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 02:11:22 am
Volume and Intensity Cycles


 One of the easiest ways to royally fuck up a program aimed at long term progress is to not take into account the role volume and intensity play when designing it.

 You dont have to look far to see a high intensity/very low volume trainee make nice gains for a few weeks, and then peter out shortly after those gains are made.

There are several different reasons for this, but to keep things simple, we will keep intensity as a word used to describe the training method targeting the central nervous system as a PRIMARY.  This is a VERY important aspect of training, but once those short term adaptations have been made that tend to come fairly quickly, gains tend to slow down massively without introducing a new stimulus.  

You also dont have to look far to find athletes using a high volume/low intensity approach, that tend to make their gains a little more slowly, but start to run into lack of progress in strength gains,  overuse issues, pain in the tendons/ligaments, etc., and tears and or strains, which keep them from staying more consistent with their training. Many of these individuals will initially notice a nice change in physical appearance right off the bat, and then soon after, that comes to a stop as well. Again, to keep things simple, we will keep volume as a method used to PRIMARILY target hypertrophy.

The reason neither method works in the absence of the other is simple.  The central nervous can only get SO efficient, with a given amount of muscle tissue at performing a given task.  At that point you can either a. give it a different task to adapt to (change exercises, etc.) or you can add some more muscle for it recruit in the same tasks.

 On the other side of the coin, a solid progression of load is not optimal with a high volume and low intensity approach for the entire training cycle.  Raising the intensity for a while, then shifting the focus to hypertrophy can work wonders here, as you now have a more efficient central nervous system, much of the tissue has time to recover, and you can progress the LOAD with the hypertrophy specific work.  These two methods compliment each other very nicely when used correctly.

Now before it comes up that "omg everything is neural and low intensity work affects the cns too!", WE KNOW.  We also know that high intensity low volume work affects hypertrophy.  Go to the disclaimer and read "PRIMARILY", as in , the main focus, and the method that MOST affects each aspect.

So to make it short and sweet, both volume and intensity MUST be factored in, but NOT in the same session, ESPECIALLY when speaking of athletes in training for sporting endeavors other than weightlifting/powerlifting.  It can be done in different training cycles, different workouts within the same micro cycle, etc., as long as they are both factored in, given adequate attention, and allowed adequate time to recover.


If youre looking at your program, and trying to figure out why you have stalled, or are going backwards, figure out which quality you are focusing on, and how often.  Using two higher intensity workouts to one hypertrophy focused session works EXTREMELY WELL in my experience, with the hypertrophy session last in the week and one or two more rest days following that session.  Lots of coaches program specific phases lasting months at a time on one quality or the other, this also works.  If youre only doing what you feel like doing THAT day, and not factoring in the other sessions you will be performing later on, its a quick road to nowhere.  Think about the big picture at the end of the road.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: AGC on August 28, 2012, 07:31:27 am
Nice post man. I've noticed since I've started paying attention to volume and intensity splits my verts have improved a bit. Before that I didn't really have any focus on allowing adequate separation of volume or intensity.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 12:40:02 pm
So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 03:47:30 pm
Nice post man. I've noticed since I've started paying attention to volume and intensity splits my verts have improved a bit. Before that I didn't really have any focus on allowing adequate separation of volume or intensity.

 thanks acole and yes, most will make much more progress long term if they factor in the two and pay attention to what the training target is at a given time.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 03:54:35 pm
So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?

 What I have found works best over time is working up to a heavy single or triple for 3 sets on one day, preferably the first day.  Then working up to a single max set of 5 the second training day. 

The last training day would be 4 x 8-10, where load is increased once you complete 4 x 10 across.  If youre only training 2x a week then you simply to workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, in order on whatever day they may fall, taking an extra day of rest after workout 3.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LBSS on August 28, 2012, 03:57:51 pm
hm, maybe once i get my stupid 3x5x315 squat i'll switch to

Day 1
MSEM 2x3

Day 2
MSEM 1x6

Day 3
4x8-10

i think i made my best jumping gains on MSEM. maybe time to switch back to that.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 04:10:02 pm
hm, maybe once i get my stupid 3x5x315 squat i'll switch to

Day 1
MSEM 2x3

Day 2
MSEM 1x6

Day 3
4x8-10

i think i made my best jumping gains on MSEM. maybe time to switch back to that.

that would work great imo, and much more optimal over a long period of time than either method alone.  You can generally use a set up like that year round without much stalling if you eat,sleep, recover well.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 04:17:37 pm
So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?

 What I have found works best over time is working up to a heavy single or triple for 3 sets on one day, preferably the first day.  Then working up to a single max set of 5 the second training day. 

The last training day would be 4 x 8-10, where load is increased once you complete 4 x 10 across.  If youre only training 2x a week then you simply to workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, in order on whatever day they may fall, taking an extra day of rest after workout 3.

Very interesting, haven't thought about it that way.

What if you want to do two squat workouts per week with the 3rd squat workout being replaced by BSS + deadlifts?

Like:

Workout 1: squat
rest
Workout 2: BSS + deadlift
rest
Workout 3: high volume squat
rest
rest
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 04:25:31 pm
So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?

 What I have found works best over time is working up to a heavy single or triple for 3 sets on one day, preferably the first day.  Then working up to a single max set of 5 the second training day. 

The last training day would be 4 x 8-10, where load is increased once you complete 4 x 10 across.  If youre only training 2x a week then you simply to workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, in order on whatever day they may fall, taking an extra day of rest after workout 3.

Very interesting, haven't thought about it that way.

What if you want to do two squat workouts per week with the 3rd squat workout being replaced by BSS + deadlifts?

Like:

Workout 1: squat
rest
Workout 2: BSS + deadlift
rest
Workout 3: high volume squat
rest
rest

I would use the  bss on the hypertrophy day if you wanted them in your program.  If you use deads on one of the cns intensive days you dont need a squat on that day.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 04:29:03 pm
Well yeah, that was the idea - no squatting in the deadlift day, but start the deadlift day with BSSs...

To me, squat + bss is kind of reduntant and me personally - I could never do BSSs really intense after squats so... they need to be a primary exercise for me in order to really go all out at it.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 04:35:24 pm
Well yeah, that was the idea - no squatting in the deadlift day, but start the deadlift day with BSSs...

To me, squat + bss is kind of reduntant and me personally - I could never do BSSs really intense after squats so... they need to be a primary exercise for me in order to really go all out at it.

right, so you would have 1 squat cns intensive day, 1 deadlift cns intensive day, and your hypertrophy day would  be  based around bss.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 04:37:48 pm
Oh, you mean in the hypertrophy day you just do BSSs and that's it? Not sure if they're intense (or whatever you want to call it) enough to generate hypertrophy.

They do give me a ton of glute soreness though.

But what about the MSEM days? Just those MSEMs and go home? Or you include additional assistance exercises as well?
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 04:49:18 pm
Oh, you mean in the hypertrophy day you just do BSSs and that's it? Not sure if they're intense (or whatever you want to call it) enough to generate hypertrophy.

Then why in the living fuck would you put them in your program?  wrist curls are "intense" enough to generate hypertrophy...


Quote
But what about the MSEM days? Just those MSEMs and go home? Or you include additional assistance exercises as well?

 Sure, assistance exercises are fine as long as they dont negatively affect the training target and the next workout. On these days, using oly variations/lifts, explosives, etc., should make up the mass of the assistance work though.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 04:52:22 pm
What about upperbody lifts? Muscle-wise, they wouldn't affect the MSEM sets, but CNS-wise they pretty much would. Obviously you should go more with a lower intensity upperbody stuff if you choose this path IMO.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 05:00:56 pm
What about upperbody lifts? Muscle-wise, they wouldn't affect the MSEM sets, but CNS-wise they pretty much would. Obviously you should go more with a lower intensity upperbody stuff if you choose this path IMO.

You can use the exact same scheme with upper if you need to, only keep the exercises down.  So instead of squat + assistance, you would use squat (high cns) + Press (high cns intensity). 

With the hypertrophy day its easier, and if you run out of time you can do upper on off days without much negative effect cns wise, as long as you dont go overboard. 
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: pelham32 on August 28, 2012, 08:28:08 pm
So are you saying two cns intensive days before the hypertrophy day and then it repeats. So kinda 3 on 1 off 3 on 1 off? Or could it be done like this?.. Good insight on the blog post, helped me put some things In perspective in my training.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 28, 2012, 09:26:50 pm
So are you saying two cns intensive days before the hypertrophy day and then it repeats. So kinda 3 on 1 off 3 on 1 off? Or could it be done like this?.. Good insight on the blog post, helped me put some things In perspective in my training.

Not 3 consecutive training days, something like  Mon- CNS high intensive/  tues- rest/  weds- CNS high intensive/ thurs- rest,/ friday - hypertrophy focus/, sat and sun off. etc.  Many different ways to do this, and you can do it with 2 days a week as well, the rotation only takes a little longer.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: vag on August 29, 2012, 04:26:45 am
I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on August 29, 2012, 04:47:22 am
I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.


thanks Vag, glad you found it helpful.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on August 29, 2012, 04:52:39 am
I like this approach A LOT, thanks for posting!
I will stick with my SS scheme for a while to build up my limit strength and then i am doing this.


Yeah I know, I was thinking the same when I first read it (and I'm still considering it :P)
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on September 01, 2012, 03:29:39 pm
So you recommend say a 3x5, 3x5 and 3x8 (for example) format of squatting?

 What I have found works best over time is working up to a heavy single or triple for 3 sets on one day, preferably the first day.  Then working up to a single max set of 5 the second training day.  

The last training day would be 4 x 8-10, where load is increased once you complete 4 x 10 across.  If youre only training 2x a week then you simply to workout 1, workout 2, workout 3, in order on whatever day they may fall, taking an extra day of rest after workout 3.

So you're saying this:

3x1 or 3x3 very heavy in the first workout
Work up to a 1x5 in the second workout
4x10 in the 3rd?

Or is the middle 1x5 a MSEM as well? So it's actually a 5x1 instead of a 1x5? (5 sets x 1 rep instead of 1 set of 5 reps)?

Also, what do you think of going with a speed oriented CNS intensive workout in the middle workout (the second one) instead of going for heavy weight there too?

Like this:

WO1: CNS intensive strength 3x3
WO2: CNS intensive speed 5x3 explosive half squats/power cleans/power snatches/1-2 jump squats (you might even consider depth jumps here as well IMO)
WO3: Hypertrophy 4x10

I'm looking through my log now and I see I was doing really well when I was doing 1x5+2x8 in the same workout. So I was doing something like 135x5 and then backing off to 115x8+110x8. You said not to do them both rep ranges in the same workout (cns intensive and hypertrophy oriented) but I was doing pretty good back then. Of course the question is - maybe I would have done even better if I had not been doing them both in the same workout.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on September 01, 2012, 08:15:46 pm

So you're saying this:

3x1 or 3x3 very heavy in the first workout
Work up to a 1x5 in the second workout
4x10 in the 3rd?


 The numbers can vary but thats one way to do it.


Quote
Or is the middle 1x5 a MSEM as well? So it's actually a 5x1 instead of a 1x5? (5 sets x 1 rep instead of 1 set of 5 reps)?

No, it is a single set of 5 reps, with ramped sets leading to it in low reps.


Quote
Also, what do you think of going with a speed oriented CNS intensive workout in the middle workout (the second one) instead of going for heavy weight there too?

I dont believe those exercises are NEAR as cns intensive as heavy loading. In fact, doing a session of nothing but explosives is a good way to help RECOVERY.   They can (and its a good idea to) be added to in the first portion of each workout, with conservative volume. 


Quote
Like this:

WO1: CNS intensive strength 3x3
WO2: CNS intensive speed 5x3 explosive half squats/power cleans/power snatches/1-2 jump squats (you might even consider depth jumps here as well IMO)
WO3: Hypertrophy 4x10

I'm looking through my log now and I see I was doing really well when I was doing 1x5+2x8 in the same workout. So I was doing something like 135x5 and then backing off to 115x8+110x8. You said not to do them both rep ranges in the same workout (cns intensive and hypertrophy oriented) but I was doing pretty good back then. Of course the question is - maybe I would have done even better if I had not been doing them both in the same workout.

 I mean dont do them both in the same workout, without taking into account the recovery costs of each one and how each session will affect the next one.  If you were training very infrequently, you could do both in the same session every workout and be fine.  Still wouldnt be OPTIMAL though.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on September 02, 2012, 06:39:00 am
Then if I'm more into hypertrophy that what this protocol is originally made up for, I could do a 1x5 and 2x8 in the 2nd workout since I'm going for 4x10 for hypertrophy in the 3rd one anyway I guess.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on September 02, 2012, 02:42:39 pm
Also, for the 2nd workout you might also go with this:

Quote
Let's say you're doing squats and you want to hit one money set for somewhere between 5-10 reps. Your last workout you did 250 for 6 reps and you want to improve upon that number. Your entire squat workout might look like this:

45 lbs x 10
135 x 5
185 x 5
225 x 5
250 x 8 reps (or as many reps as possible)

The idea is you do enough warm-up or build up sets to get fully prepared for that one maximal run at a PR. If you felt you had more in the tank you might give another run at that 250. Also, notice how there are several warmup sets but the reps are kept lower to avoid excessive fatigue from building up.

Would that be the only thing you did that workout? Typically not. You might do one or 2 more money sets of a different exercise and you could even add some submaximal assistance volume work, but the rest of the workout wouldn't really count towards your progress one way or the other. It's the money set(s) that count.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/setsandreps.html

What do you think?
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on September 02, 2012, 04:34:01 pm

  I think youre asking questions that I already answered. 
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Kingfish on September 02, 2012, 06:28:44 pm
lance, my (squat) idea of hypertrophy at this time is a x12-20 rep/set of 2-4clusters (45-90sec reset), after my dynamic warmup with the loaded squats(x1-2rep up to top single at 405)..

- using 75%RM+, anything that is 6+reps becomes dependent on the back muscles being able to keep me upright.
- these resets are pretty good in getting my back muscles fresh for more reps.
- if my back muscles get beat.. i'm useless. i'm still jello from the 495 smith calfs i did a few days back.  :uhhhfacepalm:

sounds like a muscle building plan or is there a better option for my routine at this time?.. squats have to be on a daily schedule. i'm too lazy learning coordination again if i skip a day.





Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on September 02, 2012, 07:21:33 pm
lance, my (squat) idea of hypertrophy at this time is a x12-20 rep/set of 2-4clusters (45-90sec reset), after my dynamic warmup with the loaded squats(x1-2rep up to top single at 405)..

- using 75%RM+, anything that is 6+reps becomes dependent on the back muscles being able to keep me upright.
- these resets are pretty good in getting my back muscles fresh for more reps.
- if my back muscles get beat.. i'm useless. i'm still jello from the 495 smith calfs i did a few days back.  :uhhhfacepalm:

sounds like a muscle building plan or is there a better option for my routine at this time?.. squats have to be on a daily schedule. i'm too lazy learning coordination again if i skip a day.








 First thing I would kf is stop squatting every day, and go every other day.  Not 3 x a week, every other day.  I know you dont want to do that, but I would bet you will PR after a week or so of doing so.  You also have to ask yourself why youre squatting daily.  Is it to improve strength/hypertrophy, or is it due to the fact you like to go in daily and squat. If you did your upper/accessory work on your days you didnt squat, and still squatted every other day, you are still going to the gym daily.


 IF youre going to squat every day, you HAVE to increase LOAD, and if youre not increasing it at the least monthly, something is wrong.  Regardless of the goal (hypertrophy/strength), a progression of LOAD over a reasonable amount of time will determine the effectiveness of the program in the end. 

 To answer your set up there, the only way I have ever seen daily or high frequency set ups work with reps over 2-3, is when there is a SINGLE max rep set of that day.  You can set a cap on it at 8,10,etc., but work up to ONE SET, then STOP.  I would also alternate sessions of working up to a daily max (heavy) double, and working up to a daily max rep 4+ set. 

 bottom line is the one good thing youve done is trained your work capacity up to a high level.  Now if you were to switch to an every other day squatting set up, you can capitalize on that big time.  Increase load one way or another though, and in a quick like fashion, even if it is 5 pounds, or a single extra rep. Without that nothing will work for long.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Kingfish on September 02, 2012, 09:16:14 pm
thanks lance.

2x a day to every other day.. i might need some rehab to get out of my addiction for that.. :P

my goal is repeatable 2.6BW paused rep squat peak 1-2x/week.. i will take your advice lance but will gradually let go first.. i will still lift daily but will cut the "no-squat" days to a max of sub 385s.. anything with 385 and heavier is a squat day. 365 and under is just a regular training day.

i'm probably training in circles right now.. no problem IMO.. circles kinda boss already anyway for jumping purposes.:wowthatwasnutswtf:





 
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on September 02, 2012, 10:32:51 pm
thanks lance.

2x a day to every other day.. i might need some rehab to get out of my addiction for that.. :P

my goal is repeatable 2.6BW paused rep squat peak 1-2x/week.. i will take your advice lance but will gradually let go first.. i will still lift daily but will cut the "no-squat" days to a max of sub 385s.. anything with 385 and heavier is a squat day. 365 and under is just a regular training day.

i'm probably training in circles right now.. no problem IMO.. circles kinda boss already anyway for jumping purposes.:wowthatwasnutswtf:





 

 I understand man, trust me> Im the EXACT same way, I get addicted to TRAINING, and not PROGRESSION, and it always wastes time.  The good thing is once you let up a little youll notice that your recovery is awesome and you start to hit PR's regularly.  It will take a week or so and watch this happen.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Raptor on September 25, 2012, 03:25:33 pm
What do you feel about alternating a MSEM workout with a volume workout (say 4x10 or 8x5) every 3 days or so?

I feel like there's no need to do 1x5 or 3x5 because it's not at the either end of the spectrum - it's neither CNS intensive nor it is a volume workout, so I personally ditched it and use a 8x1 one day and a 8x5 the other day.

What are your thoughts on the 1x5 day? I'd rather do an explosive workout in that day.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LanceSTS on September 25, 2012, 11:57:36 pm
What do you feel about alternating a MSEM workout with a volume workout (say 4x10 or 8x5) every 3 days or so?

I feel like there's no need to do 1x5 or 3x5 because it's not at the either end of the spectrum - it's neither CNS intensive nor it is a volume workout, so I personally ditched it and use a 8x1 one day and a 8x5 the other day.

What are your thoughts on the 1x5 day? I'd rather do an explosive workout in that day.


 Try it and see.  Only problem I see is for hypertrophy specific gains you need to keep the volume pretty high, especially over a long cycle.  That set up would have only one real hit in the hypertrophy area.  5's give enough volume that its in between the two extremes, and a happy medium if you already have one pure cns intensive and one pure hypertrophy foucsed day.
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: Biglittleme on January 05, 2014, 02:02:32 am
Just a few questions,

Sorry, I'm a beginner to all this, so I couldn't fully understand the article because i lack knowledge on terms like 'hypertrophy' etc..

When you say 'CNS high intensive', do you mean workouts with lower volume/high intensity with lower weights?
And for 'hypertrophy'.. do you mean high volume with heavier weights?

So, are you saying that we should include 2 days of high intensity with lower weights and one day of heavy weights in a week?

Could you do 1 day each in a week? like 1 day of 'CNS high intensity' day and 1 day of 'hypertrophy' day, because in the environment where I live, its tough to go to the gym more than 2 times a week...

Sorry for my lack of knowledge in all this :/ but thanks for sharing! I feel like this will help to reach my goal
Title: Re: TRAINING POSTS
Post by: LBSS on January 06, 2014, 08:10:02 am
google.