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Performance Area => Nutrition & Supplementation => Topic started by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 27, 2011, 10:54:00 pm

Title: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 27, 2011, 10:54:00 pm
Has anyone tried this diet?. Or is it just a pile of junk like all the rest of his stuff?.


Original Link: http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5381385/The.Ketogenic.Diet(Lyle.McDonald)


Quote
About the Book

Very low-carbohydrate (aka ketogenic) diets such as The Atkins Diet, Protein Power and The South Beach Diet have come and gone repeatedly over the years and there is currently great research and real-world interest in their effects. Unfortunately, altogether too much misinformation exists regarding them.

Folks who are pro-low-carbohydrate diets tend to present them as the quick and easy solution to everything including obesity. Easy weight loss without hunger or calorie counting is promised but never seems to pan out as well as we might hope.

At the other extreme are the anti-low-carbohydrate folks who tend to present low-carbohydrate diets as nothing short of a nutritional disaster being perpetrated by a bunch of con men.

The truth, of course lies somewhere in the middle. While low-carbohydrate diets aren’t for everyone and have their pros and cons, the research is clear: they have major benefits under certain circumstances and can be as healthy (and sometimes healthier) than ’standard’ carbohydrate based dieting.

The Ketogenic Diet is the first and only book to objectively examine in-depth the scientific evidence regarding low-carbohydrate/ketogenic diets. It is meant to be a reference manual for low-carbohydrate diets; it is unlike any other book on low-carbohydrate diets that you have ever read or seen.

Covering every topic in extreme detail, The Ketogenic Diet addresses everything from the basic physiology of how the body adapts to a low-carbohydrate intake, the details of human fuel utilization, the impact of low-carbohydrate diets on body composition and many, many more.

Of course, none of the above is useful without practical application guidelines. Details on how to optimize low-carbohydrate diets for different goals (such as fat loss, bodybuilding and endurance performance) are discussed along with three distinct types of low-carbohydrate diets. In addition, the book includes a complete discussion of resistance, aerobic and anaerobic exercise physiology along with specific training programs for different goals and different levels of trainee

At 325 pages and containing over 600 scientific references, this will be your complete reference for ketogenic diets.

Please note: this book does not include information on the ketogenic diet for adolescent epilepsy (the topic is discussed briefly). I highly suggest The Ketogenic Diet: A Treatment for Epilepsy, 3rd Edition (Paperback) by Freeman, Freeman and Kelly (link will take you to Amazon.com page).




Table of contents

Section I: Introduction
1. Introduction to the ketogenic diet
2. History of the ketogenic diet

Section II: The physiology of ketosis
3. Fuel utilization
4. Basic ketone body physiology
5. Adaptations to ketosis
6. Changes in body composition
7. Other effects of the ketogenic diet

Section III: The diets
8. Setting calorie levels
9. The standard ketogenic diet (SKD)
10. Carbs and the ketogenic diet
11. The targeted ketogenic diet (TKD)
12. The cyclical ketogenic diet (CKD)

Section IV: Other topics for the ketogenic diet
13. Breaking fat loss plateaus
14. Ending a ketogenic diet
15. Tools for the ketogenic diet
16. Final considerations

Section V: Exercise physiology
17. Muscular physiology and energy production
18. Aerobic exercise
19. Interval training
20. Weight training
21. The effect of exercise on ketosis
22. Exercise and fat loss

Section VI: Exercise guidelines
23. General exercise guidelines
24. Aerobic exercise
25. Interval training
26. Weight training

Section VII: Exercise programs
27. Beginner programs
28. Intermediate programs
29. The advanced CKD workout
30. Fat loss for pre-competition bodybuilders

Section VIII: Supplements
31. Supplements

Index
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 27, 2011, 10:59:10 pm
Has anyone tried this diet?. Or is it just a pile junk like the rest of his stuff?.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 28, 2011, 04:29:35 am
Has anyone tried this diet?. Or is it just a pile junk like the rest of his stuff?.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

x2
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 28, 2011, 05:33:51 am
Has anyone tried this diet?. Or is it just a pile junk like the rest of his stuff?.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

x2

x3 Lyle's a an asshole. But he's an informed and competent asshole with a clear writing style.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 28, 2011, 06:51:55 am
Has anyone tried this diet?. Or is it just a pile junk like the rest of his stuff?.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

x2

x3 Lyle's a an asshole. But he's an informed and competent asshole with a clear writing style.

and, it's worth mentioning, a generally self-aware and unrepentant asshole.

his stuff on diet and nutrition is consistently better than anything else on the interwebs. if you want to know about ketogenic dieting enough to buy a book about it, i think you'd be hard-pressed to find a better one than his. although from that link i guess you were going to pirate it.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 10:46:50 am
x3 Lyle's a an asshole.

+4.


Quote from: tychver
his stuff on diet and nutrition is consistently better than anything else on the interwebs.

lol.



Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 28, 2011, 12:48:57 pm
now i'm not sure if you're serious. who is a better resource for diet and nutrition, free online, than lyle? nutswinging aside, i'm curious.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 01:19:55 pm
Calories in, calories out.

Its not rocket science, it's the most simple thing on earth.


"At 325 pages and containing over 600 scientific references", lol.

He's just blagging peoples heads with irrelevant info.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 28, 2011, 02:08:21 pm
Calories in, calories out.

Its not rocket science, it's the most simple thing on earth.


"At 325 pages and containing over 600 scientific references", lol.

He's just blagging peoples heads with irrelevant info.

oh, so you haven't ACTUALLY read anything he's written. fair enough, i guess.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 28, 2011, 02:11:43 pm
Calories in, calories out.

Its not rocket science, it's the most simple thing on earth.


"At 325 pages and containing over 600 scientific references", lol.

He's just blagging peoples heads with irrelevant info.

lol!!!

then why are you posting/talking about scientific research related to training? It's just overloading the body repeatedly - even more simple thing :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 28, 2011, 03:38:51 pm
Calories in, calories out.

Its not rocket science, it's the most simple thing on earth.


"At 325 pages and containing over 600 scientific references", lol.

He's just blagging peoples heads with irrelevant info.

You have no idea what the keto diet is. Calories in, calories out is true for total weight loss, but if you want to retain muscle without anabolic assistance, it's a little more advanced than that.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 28, 2011, 04:06:15 pm
x3 Lyle's a an asshole.

+4.


Quote from: tychver
his stuff on diet and nutrition is consistently better than anything else on the interwebs.

lol.

I didn't even write that lol.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 28, 2011, 04:23:37 pm
x3 Lyle's a an asshole.

+4.



lol.

Lyle's a douchebag

+5
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 05:58:55 pm
Quote
then why are you posting/talking about scientific research related to training?

Yeah... when it comes it too scientific research related to training/sprinting, I'm all ears, but 325 pages & 600 scientific references of head blagging related to what exactly? The perfect diet?. It doesn't exist.

Wait up blu, I'll download it & see what all the fuss is about.

Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 06:13:53 pm
Not even past the 4th line & he's already talking high.

Quote
I became interested in the ketogenic diet two and one-half years ago when I used a modified form (called a cyclical ketogenic diet) to reach a level of leanness that was previously impossible using other diets.

I guess the ketogenic diet is the only diet you can get lean on.

You can get lean on a diet of junk food/exercise as long as you take note of caloric intake.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 28, 2011, 06:16:12 pm
Not even past 4th line & he's already talking high.

Quote
I became interested in the ketogenic diet two and one-half years ago when I used a modified form (called a cyclical ketogenic diet) to reach a level of leanness that was previously impossible using other diets.

I guess the ketogenic diet is the only diet you can get lean on.

Sillies. You can get lean on a diet of junk food/exercise if you take note of caloric intake.

wow, go write a book and enlighten us all!
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 06:20:12 pm
wow, go write a book and enlighten us all!

When it comes to diet, just keep it healthy & basic man.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: bball2020 on March 28, 2011, 08:05:37 pm
the more extreme you want your results to be (according to your body/genetics) the more the "keep it healthy and basic" does not get the job done..
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 28, 2011, 08:57:36 pm
the more extreme you want your results to be (according to your body/genetics) the more the "keep it healthy and basic" does not get the job done..

Not necessarily
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 08:58:41 pm
the more extreme you want your results to be (according to your body/genetics) the more the "keep it healthy and basic" does not get the job done..

Nonsense.

Go tell that to Bolt on his diet of chicken nuggets LMAO.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 28, 2011, 09:17:58 pm
the more extreme you want your results to be (according to your body/genetics) the more the "keep it healthy and basic" does not get the job done..

Nonsense.

Go tell that to Bolt on his diet of chicken nuggets LMAO.

Bolt is quite possibly the biggest genetic freak of all time and almost certainly on a permanent diet of hugely effective and undetectable drugs. Nothing he does is relevant to a normal athlete.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 28, 2011, 09:43:16 pm
Bolt is quite possibly the biggest genetic freak of all time and almost certainly on a permanent diet of hugely effective and undetectable drugs.

Fail on both accounts.

He had no great prospects as a 100m runner/didn't possess the speed. His squat & bench aren't huge (speed isn't primarily made there). Drug use is speculatory at best & since he still hasn't failed a drugs test, the fact remains he's clean till proven guilty.


Nothing he does is relevant to a normal athlete.

Yeah, If he followed the ketogenic diet that would put him in the 9.2's, right?.  

lol.


Can you imagine a whiteboy getting close to the record, what the reaction would be in the athletic community, if there are so many that believe Bolt is juiced to the gills. Jesus.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 28, 2011, 11:11:20 pm
Fail on both accounts.

He had no great prospects as a 100m runner/didn't possess the speed. His squat & bench aren't huge (speed isn't primarily made there). Drug use is speculatory at best & since he still hasn't failed a drugs test, the fact remains he's clean till proven guilty.

He was running mid-low 10s at 16. His coach steered him towards 200/400 because of his height and build. He then set the junior WR as a 200m sprinter and shifted into 100m as he got stronger and put on 18kg.

Yeah, If he followed the ketogenic diet that would put him in the 9.2's, right?.  

lol.


Ketogenic diets generally don't work very well for athletes with a high workload.

Can you imagine a whiteboy getting close to the record, what the reaction would be in the athletic community, if there are so many that believe Bolt is juiced to the gills. Jesus.

Past evidence of top sprinters suggest otherwise. Especially those who pack on large amounts of muscle and annihilate world records. Bolt is more likely to be doping than Christopher Lemaitre, but Lemaitre is probably not clean either.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 28, 2011, 11:15:19 pm
Not even past the 4th line & he's already talking high.

Quote
I became interested in the ketogenic diet two and one-half years ago when I used a modified form (called a cyclical ketogenic diet) to reach a level of leanness that was previously impossible using other diets.

I guess the ketogenic diet is the only diet you can get lean on.

Sillies. You can get lean on a diet of junk food/exercise as long as you take note of caloric intake.

way i see it, there are three options here:

1. you've still never read anything lyle has written. pretty much no one on the internet is more of an "it depends" guy than lyle, except maybe alan aragon.
2. you're borderline MR and/or illiterate.
3. you're trolling.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 28, 2011, 11:18:06 pm
way i see it, there are three options here:

1. you've still never read anything lyle has written. pretty much no one on the internet is more of an "it depends" guy than lyle, except maybe alan aragon.
2. you're borderline MR and/or illiterate.
3. you're trolling.

Options? I'm going with all three.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 12:34:58 am
He was running mid-low 10s at 16.

1. Could you please link me to that fact?.

2. When it comes to the 100m, running mid-low 10s is planets apart from 9.58.


Ketogenic diets generally don't work very well for athletes with a high workload.

At least your honest.

Past evidence of top sprinters suggest otherwise.

I can appreciate that.


Especially those who pack on large amounts of muscle and annihilate world records. Bolt is more likely to be doping than Christopher Lemaitre, but Lemaitre is probably not clean either.

How do you define packing on muscle?. I certainly wouldn't regard Bolt as hugely muscular, & as for Lemaitre, there is more muscle on a butchers pencil.

But the fact still remains, both guys haven't failed a drugs test. You certainly wouldn't be willing to stake your life/families life on the fact of both guys being juiced for the return of a $1million.

So what is the deal here?. Are you a speed coach? athlete? sprinter? etc that trains very hard but can't even come close to the elite? & your wandering what the deal is with those guys?.

1. you've still never read anything lyle has written. pretty much no one on the internet is more of an "it depends" guy than lyle, except maybe alan aragon.

You know I love a good conspiracy & a word commonly used is debunked.

Well, Usain Bolt has debunked the Ketogenic Diet.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 29, 2011, 12:39:11 am
ah, so borderline MR it is. sorry, man. that's a heavy cross to bear.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: bball2020 on March 29, 2011, 01:16:19 am
JC, as an example, for the average dude, its going to be a lot harder(require more dedication/planning etc) to get to 5% bodyfat than it did to get to 8% body fat..just in general terms, some guys have the genetics and metabolism to get cut up easier than others
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 29, 2011, 05:24:29 am
Wow, i didn't expect so much BS from you $ick3nin.vend3tta!
You're right there with Raptor "I don't believe in nutrition - it's all pure marketing and for snobs"...


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL LOL!
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 11:52:00 am
Wow, i didn't expect so much BS from you $ick3nin.vend3tta!

You have to argue your case & put your points forward to where the BS is at?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 11:54:03 am
Who here believes Casey Combest was on the juice throughout his time in the 100m?.

If so, what makes you believe that?.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh-gP2jc3sA
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 29, 2011, 05:22:20 pm
Who here believes Casey Combest was on the juice throughout his time in the 100m?.

If so, what makes you believe that?.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh-gP2jc3sA


man that dude was faaaaaaaaaaaaast with a million a's

holy jeez! and he like never trained in a real program?

oh and dude you should go read up a little on dieting
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 05:42:20 pm
oh and dude you should go read up a little on dieting.

Maintaining 5-8% BF all year round.

I'm aight.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 29, 2011, 07:17:43 pm
oh and dude you should go read up a little on dieting.

Maintaining 5-8% BF all year round.

I'm aight.

What height/weight? And are those 5-8% internet-bodyfat or real bodyfat?
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 08:00:29 pm
What height/weight? And are those 5-8% internet-bodyfat or real bodyfat?

6' 0", around 160 lbs. I use body fat calipers to test.

Building for power.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 29, 2011, 08:06:40 pm
What height/weight? And are those 5-8% internet-bodyfat or real bodyfat?

6' 0", around 160 lbs. I use body fat calipers to test.

Building for power.

Put on some muscle and see if you can maintain 5% bf ;)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 08:22:15 pm
Put on some muscle and see if you can maintain 5% bf ;)

For me personally, relative strength/bodyweight-power ratio is where it's at, maintaining BW & developing the CNS rather than building bulk.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 29, 2011, 09:56:43 pm
What height/weight? And are those 5-8% internet-bodyfat or real bodyfat?

6' 0", around 160 lbs. I use body fat calipers to test.

Building for power.

I bet you're higher than 10%
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 29, 2011, 10:03:18 pm
Maintaining 5-8% BF all year round.

6' 0", around 160 lbs. I use body fat calipers to test.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL LOL!


Skinfold calipers and the formula used to estimate bodyfat percentage from the results are horrendously inaccurate below 10-12% as they only measure subcutaneous adipose tissue and can't measure either changes in visceral fat or take into account essential fat in the nervous system and other organs. For example Parillo sums all the skin fold measurements and then multiplies by one of several constants depending on the sites and gender that were determined as the best correlation between the total skinfold and the result of a DEXA scan of a bunch of test subjects. That's completely off the top of my head so don't take this as gospel, someone correct me if I'm wrong. That's not to say that you can't still track your own progress in raw skin fold measurements.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 10:31:58 pm
Do you have any links/sources which suggest of inaccuracies?.

Where are you pulling the %'s from?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 29, 2011, 10:42:20 pm
Do you have any links/sources which suggest of inaccuracies?.

Where are you pulling the %'s from?.

If they are saying you are 5-8% year round, that's enough to know they are inaccurate. Pro bodybuilders can't even stay 5% year round on tons of drugs.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: mj on March 29, 2011, 10:58:15 pm
on a more relevant point I haven't read the keto diet by Lyle, but I did get a copy of his rapid fat loss e-book. It is without doubt the best nutritional giude I've ever read.

It talks about a scientific approach to crash dieting, as in only eating what is essential to health and function and no more. Not advocating the crash diet (neither does Lyle) but the hard facts on what the body needs is fascinating ... check it out.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 29, 2011, 10:59:49 pm
If they are saying you are 5-8% year round, that's enough to know they are inaccurate. Pro bodybuilders can't even stay 5% year round on tons of drugs.

Come on man, your comparing my lifestyle to the caloric intake/training of a bodybuilder.

Seriously now.

I guess the drugs can't negate the effects of massive caloric consumption/too small amount of cardio activity.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 29, 2011, 11:22:18 pm
If they are saying you are 5-8% year round, that's enough to know they are inaccurate. Pro bodybuilders can't even stay 5% year round on tons of drugs.

Come on man, your comparing my lifestyle to the caloric intake/training of a bodybuilder.

Seriously now.

I guess the drugs can't negate the effects of massive caloric consumption/too small amount of cardio activity.

Weren't you blabbing about calories in/calories out before? Now cardio matters?
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 30, 2011, 04:35:16 am
haha, this thread is so funny :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 30, 2011, 05:17:53 am
Do you have any links/sources which suggest of inaccuracies?.

Where are you pulling the %'s from?.

Can you not use Google?

Hit NUMBER ONE for "skinfold calipers inaccuracy low bodyfat"

Real world example of the standard Jackson & Pollock formula being calibrated for non-athletes causing an estimate of 3.7% for an athlete at approximately 10%:

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/bodyfatcalipers.html

Quote
Body fat calipers measure skinfolds to calculate how much subcutaneous fat (fat under the skin) a person has. The examiner then puts the numbers into an equation to predict body density and body fat percentage. The point to remember is... Body fat calipers do not measure your body fat percentage directly. The result? There is a great deal of room for errors to creep in.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: adarqui on March 30, 2011, 05:24:20 am
i dno, my friend eddie (who was in my dunk vids), was "striated" at all times, just insanely lean, ripped to shreds, at 145-150 lb bodyweight/6'0 in shoes.. pretty sure he was at least 6% at all times.

some people are ridiculously lean.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 30, 2011, 06:00:05 am
i dno, my friend eddie (who was in my dunk vids), was "striated" at all times, just insanely lean, ripped to shreds, at 145-150 lb bodyweight/6'0 in shoes.. pretty sure he was at least 6% at all times.

some people are ridiculously lean.


You know how i looked some years ago. Skinfold caliper gave me 3,3% bf, bioimpedance just said "error". I surely wasn't 3,3% bf!

What most people think is 5% is more like 10%bf in reality.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: adarqui on March 30, 2011, 06:27:48 am
i dno, my friend eddie (who was in my dunk vids), was "striated" at all times, just insanely lean, ripped to shreds, at 145-150 lb bodyweight/6'0 in shoes.. pretty sure he was at least 6% at all times.

some people are ridiculously lean.


You know how i looked some years ago. Skinfold caliper gave me 3,3% bf, bioimpedance just said "error". I surely wasn't 3,3% bf!

What most people think is 5% is more like 10%bf in reality.

so you're saying you were 10% in that pic?? hehe
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 09:36:02 am
Hey Lyle...


Olympic 100m hero Usain Bolt powered by chicken nuggets and yams. (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-laughing014.gif)
 
By Damien Fletcher And Jeremy Armstrong In Beijing 18/08/2008.


Original Link: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2008/08/18/olympic-100m-hero-usain-bolt-powered-by-chicken-nuggets-and-yams-115875-20702431/


The secret weapon behind sprint sensation Usain Bolt's incredible Olympic 100metres triumph has been revealed as . . . a diet of chicken nuggets and yams.

Bolt became the fastest human ever when he won gold smashing his own world record in an unforgettable showboating performance.

Jamaican Bolt, 21, was so far ahead of his rivals he coolly slowed up in the last 30 metres, looked over his shoulder and beat his chest Tarzan-style before crossing the line.

And experts were last asking how fast the man dubbed Lightning Bolt could run if he decided to go hell-for-leather until the finish line.

After the race Bolt gave the credit for his incredible stamina not to a scientific high-protein regime meticulously planned by a team of dieticians - but plenty of chicken nuggets.

He said: "I woke around 11am and decided to watch some TV and had some nuggets.

"Then I slept for a couple of hours more. Then I got some more nuggets and came to the track." Bolt's diet is typical of his laidback attitude summed up by the slogan on his nation's yellow and green strip that reads "Jamaica - No Problem."

As the athletes lined up for Saturday's 100metres, most looked tense.

But the reggae-loving Bolt did a little dance then fired an imaginary arrow into the crowd as his name was announced.

He said afterwards: "I like to to do that for the crowd. I just love dancing.

"You have to enjoy yourself to stay relaxed. When I made that gesture going over the line, I was just having fun. That is just me. I didn't even know I'd beaten the record until after the lap of honour."

Millions watched Bolt's triumph on TV. And no one was cheering him on harder than dad Wellesley back home in the quiet village of Sherwood Content. Yesterday proud Wellesley insisted his son's path to gold had been powered by a regular diet of yams when he was a boy.

He said Bolt, who is also hoping for Olympic gold in the 200metres and the 100 metres relay, loved the starchy vegetable as a child and insisted it helped build up his 6ft 5ins frame.

Wellesley insists he had no doubt his son would triumph in Beijing on Saturday. He said: "Once he got going I knew they were not gonna catch him."

Experts are convinced Bolt will dominate sprinting for a decade - and believe he will run even faster than the 9.69 that shaved three hundredths of a second off his previous world record.

Scott Drawer, UK Sport's head of research, said: "Usain has a very different body to that of traditional 100m sprinters. It's rare to see someone so tall.

"It means he is a lot slower out of the blocks but once he is up to speed his long legs and his superior stride length is a very important factor that gives him a major advantage. He's got a huge amount of natural talent and you could tell he could have run even faster in that race.

"It remains to be seen how many more tenths of a second he will shave off his own record. It's hard to say just how fast he can go."
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 30, 2011, 10:47:56 am
please explain to me what the fuck that has to do with lyle.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 10:55:11 am
Who here believes Casey Combest was on the juice throughout his time in the 100m?.

If so, what makes you believe that?.

I find it interesting that nobody thinks Casey Combest was juiced?.

Would that observation/realisation be based more towards his body type (ectomorph) as opposed to a more endomorph/muscular body type?.

If Bruce Lee was a sprinter, with the way his body is developed, would you say he would have been juiced?.


(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_JRFnKus8VOA/TI2KT1k-LjI/AAAAAAAABu0/hcxshU_weN8/s1600/Bruce_Lee__by_JIM_SWEET.jpg)

Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 11:04:22 am
Again, even with Christophe Lemaitre, considering how skinny he is.


(http://countenance.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/christophe_lemaitre.jpg)


(http://www.bcn2010.org/files/13-16524-imatge/Christophe-Lemaitre-nouvel-espoir-de-l-athletisme-francais.jpg)

(http://www.sportsfeatures.com/PressPoint/images/47167-olympic-image1.jpg)


(http://www.chambe-aix.com/actualite/2008/juillet/images/christophe_lemaitre.jpg)


Why would people believe he was juiced?. I need to get into people's thought processes here.

Is the juice (Lemaitre's on) creating greater strength gains (look at the pic) or is the juice creating greater power gains?.

i.e. the pics state he doesn't lift much, so does the juice automatically create greater limb speeds (power)?. The more juice, the greater one can generate greater limb speeds without doing anything?.

Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 11:11:35 am
The reason I ask is, I'm not going to be building muscle if peoples' perception of being juiced relates solely to mass/bulk which leads to almost certain guilt of juice use.

Take into account, there deadlifting, squatting, bench, strength #'s etc aren't great?.

Bolt's #'s aren't great.

Quote from: Usain Bolt
“Even today, I’m not a real heavy lifter; I just go heavy enough to develop the muscles. I don’t go after it like some other guys, mostly the shorter runners [laughs]. I’m not really that kind of sprinter.”


Very interesting.


Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: Raptor on March 30, 2011, 01:18:14 pm
His knee looks really weird here:

(http://www.sportsfeatures.com/PressPoint/images/47167-olympic-image1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: adarqui on March 30, 2011, 01:42:15 pm
i HOPE bolt isn't juiced, but i also don't really think he is juiced.. he could have used ped's during his down period between 400m and 100m, but nothing has been proven.. alot of his teammates get busted but he remains clean.. he'd have to fail something or have some people close to him start throwing out accusations, none of which has happened.

casey combest is a "spring" who is extremely strong.. has nothing to do with his physique.. he just has insane bounce, sure he could have been on juice but no one has come out saying he was, he didn't fail anything, etc.. you can't get that kind of bounce with juice, it's natural ability.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: JelloPuddinPup on March 30, 2011, 02:18:24 pm
(http://www.bcn2010.org/files/13-16524-imatge/Christophe-Lemaitre-nouvel-espoir-de-l-athletisme-francais.jpg)

Look at his left knee cap in this picture...that's nasty looking.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 30, 2011, 03:10:49 pm
I'd say Bruce Lee juiced regardless of him not being a sprinter.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 30, 2011, 04:10:19 pm
I find it interesting that nobody thinks Casey Combest was juiced?.

Would that observation/realisation be based more towards his body type (ectomorph) as opposed to a more endomorph/muscular body type?.

Appearance means nothing. Heaps of skinny looking soccer players have tested positive for various anabolic steroids.

Anabolic steroids other than testosterone are pretty easily detected now and athletes have shifted towards using a cocktail of testosterone, HGH, insulin and thyroid hormones which unfortunately are almost almost undetectable. HGH can so far only be detected in blood which is not tested outside of competition. Athletes can use HGH all off season without having to worry. Testosterone testing is based on a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. Take moderate doses and keep yourself under 4:1 and again, no worry with testing. Insulin cannot be tested for at all and testing for t3 and t4 is extremely rudimentary. Sprinters and other more general athletes are also using EPO to improve endurance and recovery.

WADA aren't even particularly coy about how easy it is to work around the testing:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/15/science/sci-baseball15

Dwain Chambers was taking HGH, testosterone, insulin and T3 while being tested multiple times over more than a year and none of it was detected. That's how useless the testing is.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: Raptor on March 30, 2011, 04:54:07 pm
Remember Rashard Lewis?

(http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/lewis00_300_051810.jpg)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 30, 2011, 05:20:21 pm
As far as i know Bolt ate McDonals in Bejing because it was the only food that he knew from home, so he was sure his stomach wouldn't get upset.

Quote
Bolt admits he is still only 60 per cent fit after post-Beijing commitments put his winter training behind schedule but he is working flat out to get back into racing shape.
"I'm actually on a diet now because I'm really trying to catch up with my training," he said. "My coach decided that I should stop eating nuggets for a while."

Quote
The day of the record-breaking 100 meter final Bolt said he "didn't have breakfast, woke up at 11, sat around watching TV, then had some chicken nuggets, slept for 2 hours...then went back and got some more nuggets!" The reason for the nuggets? Usain was afraid to eat anything else because he didn't trust the foreign food in China.

Also, about juicing in sprinting. It's obvious that a sprinter would use other stuff and/or stuff in a different way than bodybuilders.

(http://www.groundandpound.de/fileadmin/photos/2010/01/chael-sonnen-1.jpg)
Quote
The UFC allowed Sonnen to have a testosterone level that was 4-times the legal limit, and 16-times the testosterone levels of the average man.

He doesn't look really muscular to me...
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 30, 2011, 05:24:59 pm
Remember Rashard Lewis?

(http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/lewis00_300_051810.jpg)

DHEA. Not even a PED in real world sense of the word.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 30, 2011, 05:31:24 pm
Remember Rashard Lewis?

(http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/lewis00_300_051810.jpg)

DHEA. Not even a PED in real world sense of the word.

Reminds me of a scandal in soccer... I think it was the team Juventus Turin that took CREATINE omg :o
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: Raptor on March 30, 2011, 05:57:56 pm
I ate chicken. Am I roided? Should I give up on sports?

I know, no and yes.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 07:22:24 pm
I HOPE bolt isn't juiced, but i also don't really think he is juiced.. he could have used ped's during his down period between 400m and 100m, but nothing has been proven.. alot of his teammates get busted but he remains clean.. he'd have to fail something or have some people close to him start throwing out accusations, none of which has happened.

casey combest is a "spring" who is extremely strong.. has nothing to do with his physique.. he just has insane bounce, sure he could have been on juice but no one has come out saying he was, he didn't fail anything, etc.. you can't get that kind of bounce with juice, it's natural ability.

I'm in total agreement. Good post.


Appearance means nothing. Heaps of skinny looking soccer players have tested positive for various anabolic steroids.

Anabolic steroids other than testosterone are pretty easily detected now and athletes have shifted towards using a cocktail of testosterone, HGH, insulin and thyroid hormones which unfortunately are almost almost undetectable. HGH can so far only be detected in blood which is not tested outside of competition. Athletes can use HGH all off season without having to worry. Testosterone testing is based on a ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. Take moderate doses and keep yourself under 4:1 and again, no worry with testing. Insulin cannot be tested for at all and testing for t3 and t4 is extremely rudimentary. Sprinters and other more general athletes are also using EPO to improve endurance and recovery.

WADA aren't even particularly coy about how easy it is to work around the testing:
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec/15/science/sci-baseball15

Dwain Chambers was taking HGH, testosterone, insulin and T3 while being tested multiple times over more than a year and none of it was detected. That's how useless the testing is.

Fair points but soccer players are planets apart from elite track speed. You might get a couple running 10.2, it's a planet.


Right, lets say Casey Combest & Christophe Lemaitre are on the juice (specifically a mixture of anabolic steroids, HGH, t3 and t4).

What are the anabolic steroids, HGH, t3 and t4 improving in terms of sprint speed?. I associate those drugs with building muscle.  Combest & Lemaitre don't have big muscles. So, what are those drugs doing to aid the skinny guys?. How/what are they gaining from usage?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: DamienZ on March 30, 2011, 07:30:49 pm
I guess they use it more for training recovery and strength gains (while training). During the competition they might use some stuff that can't be detected.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 07:50:24 pm
I guess they use it more for training recovery and strength gains (while training). During the competition they might use some stuff that can't be detected.

But the thing is, those guys don't even look like they lift. If they both walked down the street towards me I wouldn't associate them with lifting weights (even light weights).

So we go back....

What are the anabolic steroids, HGH, t3 and t4 improving in terms of sprint speed?, if where to say these guys aren't lifting heavy loads?.

Recovery? OK, but there are natural methods that are very effective, ice baths, massage, good sleep patterns etc.

I'm sure we will get too a point in this thread where people's logic is flawed. It'll come blu.


Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LanceSTS on March 30, 2011, 08:35:24 pm
Usain Bolt could be clean, he could also be using/have used drugs, until proven otherwise its not fair to him to label him a cheater.


  Winstrol is a pretty mainstream drug for sprinters, not alot of weight gain, clears quickly, and very popular in power/speed sports.   
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: ARowe on March 30, 2011, 08:39:19 pm
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/679/aestheticcrew.jpg)


Most, if not all of those guys use keto to cut. Granted, some of them are on gear, they still use keto to get them shredded.

inb4 flamed for pic


I've never done keto myself but I did do carb tapering throughout the day and that worked pretty well for me, wasn't very strict either.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 30, 2011, 08:56:09 pm
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/679/aestheticcrew.jpg)


Most, if not all of those guys use keto to cut. Granted, some of them are on gear, they still use keto to get them shredded.

inb4 flamed for pic


I've never done keto myself but I did do carb tapering throughout the day and that worked pretty well for me, wasn't very strict either.

They are all on steroids; test prop, tren, and clen being their drugs of choice.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 30, 2011, 08:58:18 pm
I ate chicken. Am I roided? Should I give up on sports?

I know, no and yes.

Chicken isn't made in laboratories

inb4 dem hormones in chicken
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 30, 2011, 08:59:25 pm
Usain Bolt could be clean, he could also be using/have used drugs, until proven otherwise its not fair to him to label him a cheater.


  Winstrol is a pretty mainstream drug for sprinters, not alot of weight gain, clears quickly, and very popular in power/speed sports.   

i thought winstrol made your tendons brittle? i figured more athletes(who can afford it)would use anavar
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 30, 2011, 09:04:40 pm
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/679/aestheticcrew.jpg)


Most, if not all of those guys use keto to cut. Granted, some of them are on gear, they still use keto to get them shredded.

inb4 flamed for pic


I've never done keto myself but I did do carb tapering throughout the day and that worked pretty well for me, wasn't very strict either.

those are some purdy girls
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: ARowe on March 30, 2011, 09:07:20 pm
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/679/aestheticcrew.jpg)


Most, if not all of those guys use keto to cut. Granted, some of them are on gear, they still use keto to get them shredded.

inb4 flamed for pic


I've never done keto myself but I did do carb tapering throughout the day and that worked pretty well for me, wasn't very strict either.

They are all on steroids; test prop, tren, and clen being their drugs of choice.


philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 09:09:11 pm
I thought winstrol made your tendons brittle?.

If that is the case, a sprinter will never reach his full potential, far from it.


Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LanceSTS on March 30, 2011, 09:10:13 pm
Usain Bolt could be clean, he could also be using/have used drugs, until proven otherwise its not fair to him to label him a cheater.


  Winstrol is a pretty mainstream drug for sprinters, not alot of weight gain, clears quickly, and very popular in power/speed sports.   

i thought winstrol made your tendons brittle? i figured more athletes(who can afford it)would use anavar

lol, it makes your penis shrink too right? tendonitis is alot different that "brittle tendons", and athletes have been using winstrol in sports for years and years, especially sprint oriented sports.  Anavar is very popular amoung females figure/supposed to be "natural" bodybuilders.

Anyway, I dont like talking about steroids period, I dont condone it and I dont believe its necessary in any sport other than bodybuilding..  Ive said this every time this subject comes up, but there are 1000x more frat boys in your local gym JUICED TO THE GILLS, weak as dogshit, and good at absolutely no form of anything resembling athleticism, than there are elite or good athletes on drugs.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 30, 2011, 09:13:22 pm
Anyway, I dont like talking about steroids period, I dont condone it and I dont believe its necessary in any sport other than bodybuilding..  Ive said this every time this subject comes up, but there are 1000x more frat boys in your local gym JUICED TO THE GILLS, weak as dogshit, and good at absolutely no form of anything resembling athleticism, than there are elite or good athletes on drugs.

Amen!.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 30, 2011, 09:29:56 pm
Remember Rashard Lewis?

(http://www.nba.com/magic/photos/lewis00_300_051810.jpg)

DHEA. Not even a PED in real world sense of the word.

Rashard Lewis got popped for testosterone and the NBA PR machine convinced everyone it was just mistaken DHEA supplementation.

He didn't just test positive for DHEA. His test:epitest ratio, which is the first thing analyzed after an immuno-assay is run to detect various easier to pick up things, was over 6:1. WADA allows 4:1. You don't get an over 6:1 testosterone to epitestosterone ratio without taking exogenous testosterone. DHEA is a natural precursor to testosterone and when it elevates testosterone levels it does so without changing the T/E ratio.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 30, 2011, 09:52:06 pm
What are the anabolic steroids, HGH, t3 and t4 improving in terms of sprint speed?. I associate those drugs with building muscle.  Combest & Lemaitre don't have big muscles. So, what are those drugs doing to aid the skinny guys?. How/what are they gaining from usage?.

Increased recovery
Increased growth of both muscles and tendons
Reduced body fat
Increased collagen synthesis for healthy joints
Increased strength
Increased injury resistance
Able to handle more volume in a training session
Improved ability to maintain pace
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 30, 2011, 10:02:38 pm
But the thing is, those guys don't even look like they lift. If they both walked down the street towards me I wouldn't associate them with lifting weights (even light weights).

Appearances mean very little.  Does anyone see a huge and jackt weightlifter when they look at Taner Sagir? He looks kinda stocky and not particularly lean and yet is an Olympic gold meallist in weightlifting.

(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/116/280698593_acec4494c8.jpg)
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/121/267909291_d87ca748d6.jpg)

Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 31, 2011, 12:58:28 am
I ate chicken. Am I roided? Should I give up on sports?

I know, no and yes.

Chicken isn't made in laboratories

inb4 dem hormones in chicken

Posted Hickson's 800 lb DL video in Lyle's forum. He said this:

Quote from: Lyle McDonald
Whenever people ask me about steroids and GH in meat, I'm pointing to this kid: see, the stuff's helping.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 31, 2011, 02:56:37 am
I ate chicken. Am I roided? Should I give up on sports?

I know, no and yes.

Chicken isn't made in laboratories

inb4 dem hormones in chicken

Posted Hickson's 800 lb DL video in Lyle's forum. He said this:

Quote from: Lyle McDonald
Whenever people ask me about steroids and GH in meat, I'm pointing to this kid: see, the stuff's helping.

Yeah. It's scary enough the Alberto Contador's excuse for clenbuterol was seriously fucking plausable.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 31, 2011, 02:59:02 am
I ate chicken. Am I roided? Should I give up on sports?

I know, no and yes.

Chicken isn't made in laboratories

inb4 dem hormones in chicken

Posted Hickson's 800 lb DL video in Lyle's forum. He said this:

Quote from: Lyle McDonald
Whenever people ask me about steroids and GH in meat, I'm pointing to this kid: see, the stuff's helping.

Yeah. It's scary enough the Alberto Contador's excuse for clenbuterol was seriously fucking plausable.

This one is also pretty scary: Eat pork, test positive for nandrolone:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10861987
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LBSS on March 31, 2011, 06:13:53 am
for the record, he was joking.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 31, 2011, 12:53:56 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 31, 2011, 02:51:58 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.

can we have a rule on this forum to never use the term "natty" again? just such a bro douche bag thing to say
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: adarqui on March 31, 2011, 03:34:15 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.

can we have a rule on this forum to never use the term "natty" again? just such a bro douche bag thing to say

x2

:)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 31, 2011, 03:50:23 pm
for the record, he was joking.

I know lol. However, meat "contamination" is a serious issue :(
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on March 31, 2011, 03:57:22 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.

can we have a rule on this forum to never use the term "natty" again? just such a bro douche bag thing to say

x2

:)

That's because your associating it with a favorite of bros everywhere, natty ice and natty light.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 31, 2011, 04:02:25 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.

can we have a rule on this forum to never use the term "natty" again? just such a bro douche bag thing to say



x2

:)

That's because your associating it with a favorite of bros everywhere, natty ice and natty light.

true dat

plus i just keep picturing tanned dudes with waxed eye brows saying"nah bra i'm all natty all natty"
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 31, 2011, 04:33:12 pm
Increased recovery
Increased growth of both muscles and tendons
Reduced body fat
Increased collagen synthesis for healthy joints
Increased strength
Increased injury resistance
Able to handle more volume in a training session
Improved ability to maintain pace

I won't argue all your points but one I want your opinion on the most, increased growth of tendons through steroid use.

Something I just pulled from another board regarding steroids and tendons. What do you make of the article tychver?. One sentence remarks: "winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury".

Original Link: http://www.trainwiser.com/f100/steroids-tendons-4839/


Steroids and tendons.
 
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.





Yeah. It's scary enough the Alberto Contador's excuse for clenbuterol was seriously fucking plausable.

+1.

Pharmador should have received a 2 year ban. I'm a huge cycling fan & the UCI is corrupt from top to bottom. It's a complete joke.





(http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/contador-on-a-cow.jpg)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 31, 2011, 04:44:49 pm
Having just done a google search, I'm hearing so many stories of tendon ruptures following steroid usage?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 31, 2011, 04:50:52 pm
Increased recovery
Increased growth of both muscles and tendons
Reduced body fat
Increased collagen synthesis for healthy joints
Increased strength
Increased injury resistance
Able to handle more volume in a training session
Improved ability to maintain pace

I won't argue all your points but one I want your opinion on the most, increased growth of tendons through steroid use.

Something I just pulled from another board regarding steroids and tendons. What do you make of the article tychver?. One sentence remarks: "winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury".

Original Link: http://www.trainwiser.com/f100/steroids-tendons-4839/


Steroids and tendons.
 
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS, the decision is up to you.





Yeah. It's scary enough the Alberto Contador's excuse for clenbuterol was seriously fucking plausable.

+1.

Pharmador should have received a 2 year ban. I'm a huge cycling fan & the UCI is corrupt from top to bottom. It's a complete joke.





(http://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/contador-on-a-cow.jpg)

much longer/better post than mine but thats what i was saying about winstrol...it makes your tendons brittle
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LanceSTS on March 31, 2011, 05:20:32 pm
  

When It Comes to Building Tendons, Not All Steroids are Created Equal
   

by Hypertrophy
CEM-Meso.com

Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary re

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/anabolic-steroids-and-collagen-synthesis.htm#ixzz1IDM8nfTZ
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: ARowe on March 31, 2011, 06:05:01 pm
philray is natty. He has progress pics of himself since he started lifting... looks natty, no huge jumps. He's also the oldest and has been working out the longest.

Babo claims he's natty. Skeptical though because he blew up just like zyzz/chestbrah in the same time period and they are open about using gear. Babo says his grandpa or something was some successful bodybuilder or something though so he claims he has very good genetics.

Manlets ftw

None of them are natty. And all of them "look natty". None of them have impressive physiques that you couldn't get naturally.

can we have a rule on this forum to never use the term "natty" again? just such a bro douche bag thing to say

x2

:)


(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.urlesque.com/media/2010/06/1-1277407026.gif)
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 31, 2011, 07:25:11 pm
 

When It Comes to Building Tendons, Not All Steroids are Created Equal
   

by Hypertrophy
CEM-Meso.com

Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary re

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/anabolic-steroids-and-collagen-synthesis.htm#ixzz1IDM8nfTZ


so basically this study says it doesn't know




Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LanceSTS on March 31, 2011, 09:22:02 pm
 

When It Comes to Building Tendons, Not All Steroids are Created Equal
   

by Hypertrophy
CEM-Meso.com

Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary re

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/anabolic-steroids-and-collagen-synthesis.htm#ixzz1IDM8nfTZ


so basically this study says it doesn't know







basically, that study shows that winstrol is used to IMPROVE connective tissue in certain cases and you cant draw human conclusions based on rat research.  So basically, its just showing how the idiots who go around saying "winstrol causes tendon damage" got their flawed info from, basically.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: dirksilver on March 31, 2011, 09:33:27 pm
 

When It Comes to Building Tendons, Not All Steroids are Created Equal
   

by Hypertrophy
CEM-Meso.com

Stimulation of collagen synthesis by the anabolic steroid stanozolol.

Researchers: Falanga V, Greenberg AS, Zhou L, Ochoa SM, Roberts AB, Falabella A, Yamaguchi Y; University of Miami School of Medicine, Department of Dermatology, Miami, Veterans Affairs Medical Center, Florida, USA.

Source: J Invest Dermatol 1998 Dec;111(6):1193-7

Summary: In this report, we measured the effect of the anabolic steroid stanozolol on cell replication and collagen synthesis in cultures of adult human dermal fibroblasts. Stanozolol (0.625-5 micrograms per ml) had no effect on fibroblast replication and cell viability but enhanced collagen synthesis in a dose-dependent manner. Stanozolol also increased (by 2-fold) the mRNA levels of alpha1 (I) and alpha1 (III) procollagen and, to a similar extent, upregulated transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) mRNA and peptide levels. There was no stimulation of collagen synthesis by testosterone. The stimulatory effects of stanozolol on collagen synthesis were blocked by a TGF-beta1 anti-sense oligonucleotide, by antibodies to TGF-beta, and in dermal fibroblast cultures derived from TGF-beta-1 knockout mice. We conclude that collagen synthesis is increased by the anabolic steroid stanozolol and that, for the most part, this effect is due to TGF-beta-1. These findings point to a novel mechanism of action of anabolic steroids.

Discussion: I must first acknowledge that the commonly held belief is that anabolic steroids predispose an athlete to tendon rupture. This conclusion is drawn from animal studies showing that some steroids produce a larger, stiffer tendon in rats and that these steroid-induced tendons "fail" before the tendons from the control animals. The term fail refers to the breaking point.

The interesting thing about the present study is that the steroid stanozolol (Winstrol) had a different effect than testosterone. If you are a regular reader of MESO-Rx you should be well aware that not all steroids act in the same manner. And that because of subtle differences in there molecular structure they are able to elicit different responses. For example, Deca seems to act primarily through the androgen receptor (AR) where as Dianabol has effects beyond those associated with the AR.

Because synthetic steroids have differ in their chemical properties it should not be surprising that testosterone did not have the same effect as Winstrol. Winstrol increased collagen synthesis as opposed to testosterone which did not in this study. Interpreting the results of this study are more difficult than simply describing them. Other researchers have suggested that steroids cause a rapid increase in protein synthesis within tendon fibroblasts which results in fibroids or fibrous nodules within the tendon (Michna,1988). These fibroids alter the mechanical properties of the tendon perhaps predisposing it to rupture. It is also noted that during short term use of steroids there is an alteration in the alignment of collagen fibers which may also lead to rupture. Interestingly these alterations in collagen metabolism are transient with markers of collagen turnover returning more or less to baseline after 3-4 weeks of steroid administration (Karpakka,1992). These same researchers noted that low dose anabolics effect primarily muscle collagenous tissue with tendon being effected only at higher doses (i.e. 5 times the therapeutic dose) which would more closely represent what is needed by bodybuilders to put on mass.

The question remains, dose this mean that Winstrol will actually help prevent tendon injury or will it lead to bigger yet stiffer tendons prone to injury? It is difficult to take animal research and extrapolate the results to humans. Stanozolol is used therapeutically in humans to treat a variety of connective tissue and vascular disorders and its clinical effects suggest that it can modulate connective tissue breakdown in people. Despite being labeled as "ineffective" by many bodybuilders it is very popular among athletes. As with most hormones, dosage plays a role in what effects are seen, be they positive or negative. Hopefully future studies will shed light on the therapeutic effects of different steroids on tendons in humans.

References:

Michna H Appearance and ultrastructure of intranuclear crystalloids in tendon fibroblasts induced by an anabolic steroid hormone in the mouse. Acta Anat (Basel) 1988;133(3):247-50

Karpakka JA, Pesola MK, Takala TE. The effects of anabolic steroids on collagen synthesis in rat skeletal muscle and tendon. A preliminary re

Read more from this MESO-Rx article at: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/anabolic-steroids-and-collagen-synthesis.htm#ixzz1IDM8nfTZ


so basically this study says it doesn't know







basically, that study shows that winstrol is used to IMPROVE connective tissue in certain cases and you cant draw human conclusions based on rat research.  So basically, its just showing how the idiots who go around saying "winstrol causes tendon damage" got their flawed info from, basically.

i guess it's all acedemic anyways since i'm never going to use the stuff
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 31, 2011, 10:05:48 pm
Having just done a google search, I'm hearing so many stories of tendon ruptures following steroid usage?.

Tendon strength is actually improved at moderate doses of testosterone but like any good thing, far too much of it is actually harmful. Testosterone replacement therapy generally uses around 100mg of testosterone cypionate/enathalate a week to achieve mid-high normal testosterone serum level. Recreational bodybuilders  run 400-500mg of the same injectable testosterone a week for 8-12 weeks which results in rapid strength gains along with inhibited collagen synthesis. When you combine that with the fact that they've often never lifted properly before and their bodies are not well adapted to the stress of repeatedly lifting heavy you have a disaster waiting to happen. But you wanna look jacked for the bitchez bro.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: tychver on March 31, 2011, 10:06:38 pm
basically, that study shows that winstrol is used to IMPROVE connective tissue in certain cases and you cant draw human conclusions based on rat research.  So basically, its just showing how the idiots who go around saying "winstrol causes tendon damage" got their flawed info from, basically.

Bro science? In bodybuilding?
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on March 31, 2011, 10:16:03 pm
so basically this study says it doesn't know.

And to add to that, they used animals as opposed to humans to conduct the research. I can't really take anything away from that.

When you combine that with the fact that they've often never lifted properly before and their bodies are not well adapted to the stress of repeatedly lifting heavy you have a disaster waiting to happen. But you wanna look jacked for the bitchez bro.

Not too jacked though as the quote below implies:

Quote
Weyand and his associates proved that simply gaining strength is not enough. Their study showed that the key to faster running was mass-specific force. ‘Mass-specific force’ is just another way to say that it isn’t merely the amount of force applied to the ground that increases stride length; it’s the amount of force in relation to bodyweight.

Let’s look at an example to clear up any possible confusion:

We have two miniature rockets, A and B, that are of equal size, carry equal amounts of fuel, and use engines of equal power. The only difference between A and B is their weight. A is made out of heavy steel and weighs in at a hefty 100 pounds but B is made of lightweight material that weighs only 50 pounds.
The engines fire.

What happens? B blows off its launch pad before A, quickly puts an increasing amount of distance between them, then watches as A’s added weight causes it to drain its fuel supply and drop like a brick.

All other things being equal, the lighter rocket will go faster and further every time.


Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: LanceSTS on March 31, 2011, 11:09:16 pm
basically, that study shows that winstrol is used to IMPROVE connective tissue in certain cases and you cant draw human conclusions based on rat research.  So basically, its just showing how the idiots who go around saying "winstrol causes tendon damage" got their flawed info from, basically.

Bro science? In bodybuilding?

lol, shocker... :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on April 01, 2011, 08:28:25 am
For the people who genuinely believe most sprinters are juiced, is there anything in there persona/attitude/build etc that may convince you otherwise?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on April 01, 2011, 04:07:59 pm
For the people who genuinely believe most sprinters are juiced, is there anything in there persona/attitude/build etc that may convince you otherwise?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rlg4AlwsqpA

Can't really believe a word anyone says
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on April 01, 2011, 06:10:43 pm
Can't really believe a word anyone says.

Would that also apply to you JC if you was a professional athlete?.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on April 01, 2011, 06:39:46 pm
Can't really believe a word anyone says.

Would that also apply to you JC if you was a professional athlete?.

Yes
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: adarqui on April 01, 2011, 10:35:55 pm
For the people who genuinely believe most sprinters are juiced, is there anything in there persona/attitude/build etc that may convince you otherwise?.

i don't just assume everyone is juicing.. when people fail tests though it's over for me respecting them.. so if usain failed one, adios.. but until then he's clean, so is tyson gay etc.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: $ick3nin.vend3tta on April 02, 2011, 04:57:45 pm
For the people who genuinely believe most sprinters are juiced, is there anything in there persona/attitude/build etc that may convince you otherwise?.

i don't just assume everyone is juicing.. when people fail tests though it's over for me respecting them.. so if usain failed one, adios.. but until then he's clean, so is tyson gay etc.


I wonder what the deal is with all those guys who say he is juiced on boards/in gyms/universities/forums all over the world?.

Maybe those guys are speed/sprint coaches trying to develop fast athletes but producing nothing close, or there athletes themselves, training hard & falling way short, hence the hate.

I think if juice was significant to speed, you would get far more white-boys running sub 10's but as it stands I think there has been only 2 athletes to achieve such a feat: Patrick Johnson: (9.93secs) & Christophe Lemaitre: (9.97secs). Marian Woronin ran 10secs dead.

Note: I'm not sure if Patrick Johnson is 100% caucasian?.




(http://www.theage.com.au/ffxImage/urlpicture_id_1051987654398_2003/05/05/6s_Johnson,0.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzzBq6DhVX0
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: TheSituation on April 02, 2011, 05:08:36 pm
It takes ridiculous genetics to run a sub 10, even with steroids.
Title: Re: The Ketogenic Diet By Lyle McDonald?.
Post by: Raptor on April 02, 2011, 07:06:42 pm
It takes ridiculous genetics to run a sub 10, even with steroids.

Don't let adarqui see that, we all have the same DNA!