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adarqui

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depth jumps & depth drops
« on: June 12, 2009, 12:11:13 am »
0
Post anything related to true plyometrics.



1. Does plyometric training improve vertical jump height? A meta-analytical review

Quote
PT provides a statistically significant and practically relevant improvement in vertical jump height with the mean effect ranging from 4.7% (SJ and DJ), over 7.5% (CMJA) to 8.7% (CMJ). These results justify the application of PT for the purpose of development of vertical jump performance in healthy individuals.




2. A Comparison of Plyometric Training Techniques for Improving Vertical Jump Ability and Energy Production

Quote
The 12-week program
resulted in significant increases in vertical jump height
for both training groups. The depth jump group
significantly improved their vertical jump height in all 3
jumps. None of the training methods improved
utilization of elastic energy. In activities involving
dynamic stretch-shorten cycles, drop jump training was
superior to countermovement jump training due to
neuromuscular specificity. This study provides support
for the strength and conditioning professional to include
plyometric depth jump training as part of the athlete's
overall program for improving vertical jumping ability
and concentric contractile performance.



3. The Influence of Varied Rest Interval Lengths on Depth Jump Performance

Quote
After determining their op-
timal depth jump height, the subjects performed 3 sets of 10
depth jumps, each set with a different rest interval duration.
The 3 rest intervals between depth jumps were 15, 30, and
60 seconds and were counterbalanced for each subject. Max-
imal vertical jump height and vertical ground reaction forces
were calculated for each depth jump trial. The Peak Perfor-
mance Motion Measurement System was used to measure
vertical jump height and the Kistler force platform was used
to measure ground reaction forces. Two-way analyses of var-
iance revealed that rest interval length did not affect (p
0.05) vertical jump height or vertical ground reaction forces.
Therefore, this study demonstrated a 15-second rest interval
was sufficient for recovery during the performance of depth
jumps.



4. The optimal training load for the development of dynamic athletic performance.

Quote
The experimental group which trained with the load that maximized mechanical power achieved the best overall results in enhancing dynamic athletic performance recording statistically significant (P < 0.05) improvements on most test items and producing statistically superior results to the two other training modalities on the jumping and isokinetic tests.




5. Drop jumping. II. The influence of dropping height on the biomechanics of drop jumping.

Quote
The results of a biomechanical analysis show no difference between DJ20 and DJ40 in mechanical output about the joints during the push-off phase. Peak values of moment and power output about the ankles during the push-off phase were found to be smaller in DJ60 than in DJ40 (DJ20 = DJ60). The amplitude of joint reaction forces increased with dropping height. During DJ60, the net joint reaction forces showed a sharp peak on the instant that the heels came down on the ground. Based on the results, researchers are advised to limit dropping height to 20 or 40 cm when investigating training effects of the execution of bounce drop jumps.






6. A Biomechanical Analysis of the Vertical Jump and Three Modified Plyometric Depth Jumps.

Quote
Maximum moment and power values were calculated for each joint. ANOVAs were used to compare the selected variables from DJ to the corresponding variables in CMJ. All variables from the selected joints were greater with DJ, and 29 of the 33 comparisons were significantly different (p <= 0.05). The corresponding joint moments for ankle, knee, and hip depth jumps were significantly greater than for CMJ. The modified plyometric jumps were shown to enhance the contribution of the muscles that extend the ankle, knee, and hip.



7. Muscle Power and Fiber Characteristics Following 8 Weeks of Plyometric Training

Quote
Peak muscle power output, measured using a countermovement vertical jump, significantly increased from pretraining to posttraining for group 1 (PLYOMETRIC TRAINING) (2.8%) and group 2 (PLYOMETRIC + AEROBIC TRAINING) (2.5%). Each group demonstrated a significant increase in fiber area from pretraining to posttraining for type I (group 1, 4.4%; group 2, 6.1%) and type II (group 1, 7.8%; group 2, 6.8%) fibers, but there were no differences between the groups. Following plyometric training, there is an increased power output that may in part be related to muscle fiber size.



8. The effect of plyometric training on distance running performance

Quote
Following the training period, the E group (PLYOMETRICALLY TRAINED) significantly improved 3-km performance (2.7%) and RE at each of the tested velocities, while no changes in V?O2max or Thla were recorded. CMJ height, 5BT, and MTS also increased significantly. No significant changes were observed in any measures for the C group. The results clearly demonstrated that a 6-week plyometric programme led to improvements in 3-km running performance. It is postulated that the increase in MTS resulted in improved RE. We speculate that the improved RE led to changes in 3-km running performance, as there were no corresponding alterations in V?O2max or Thla.



9. Comparison of Dynamic Push-Up Training and Plyometric Push-Up Training on Upper-Body Power and Strength

Quote
The PPU (PLYOMETRIC PUSHUP)
group experienced significantly greater improvements than
the DPU (DYNAMIC PUSHUP) group on the medicine ball put (p
0.03). There
was no significant difference between groups for the chest
press, although the PPU group experienced greater increases




10. EFFICACY OF A MINI-TRAMPOLINE PROGRAM FOR IMPROVING
THE VERTICAL JUMP


Quote
The mini-trampoline appears to be an effective apparatus for
increasing the height of the vertical jump.  Also, the mini-trampoline
seems to elicit better technique from many individuals:  In terms of
balance, there was significantly less forward translation in the jump.
Range of motion, as indicated by knee flexion in the crouch, decreased
for most subjects.  And the coordination of the thigh and shank was
relatively simultaneous after the training program.



11. The effects of plyometric, weight and plyometric-weight training on anaerobic power and muscular strength

Quote
The results showed that all the training treatments elicited significant (P<0.05) improvement in all of the tested variables. However, the combination training group showed signs of improvement in the vertical jump performance, the 50 yard dash, and leg strength that was significantly greater than the improvement in the other 2 training groups (plyometric training and weight training). This study provides support for the use of a combination of traditional weight training and plyometric drills to improve the vertical jumping ability, explosive performance in general and leg strength.


12. Biomechanical analysis of drop and countermovement jumps

Quote
The results obtained for DJ appeared to depend on jumping style. In a subgroup of subjects making a movement of large amplitude (i. e. bending their hips and knees considerably before pushing off) the push-off phase of DJ closely resembled that of CMJ. In a subgroup of subjects making a movement of small amplitude, however, the duration of the push-off phase was shorter, values for moments and mean power output at the knees and ankles were larger, and the mean EMG activity of m. gastrocnemius was higher in DJ than in CMJ. The findings are attributed to the influences of the rapid pre-stretch of knee extensors and plantar flexors after touch-down in DJ. In both subgroups, larger peak resultant reaction forces were found at the knee and ankle joints, and larger peak forces were calculated for the Achilles tendon in DJ than in CMJ.




13. THE EFFECT OF PLYOMETRIC TRAINING ON STRENGTH-SPEED ABILITIES OF BASKETBALL PLAYERS

Quote






14. Does plyometric training improve vertical jump height? A meta-analytical review

Quote
The pooled estimate of the effect of PT on vertical jump height was 4.7% (95% CI 1.8 to 7.6%), 8.7% (95% CI 7.0 to 10.4%), 7.5% (95% CI 4.2 to 10.8%) and 4.7% (95% CI 0.8 to 8.6%) for the SJ, CMJ, CMJA and DJ, respectively. When expressed in standardised units (ie, effect sizes), the effect of PT on vertical jump height was 0.44 (95% CI 0.15 to 0.72), 0.88 (95% CI 0.64 to 1.11), 0.74 (95% CI 0.47 to 1.02) and 0.62 (95% CI 0.18 to 1.05) for the SJ, CMJ, CMJA and DJ, respectively. PT provides a statistically significant and practically relevant improvement in vertical jump height with the mean effect ranging from 4.7% (SJ and DJ), over 7.5% (CMJA) to 8.7% (CMJ). These results justify the application of PT for the purpose of development of vertical jump performance in healthy individuals.



15. The effect of two plyometric training techniques on muscular power and agility in youth soccer players.

Quote
Posttraining, both groups experienced improvements in vertical jump height (p < 0.05) and agility time (p < 0.05) and no change in sprint performance (p > 0.05). There were no differences between the treatment groups (p > 0.05). The study concludes that both DJ and CMJ plyometrics are worthwhile training activities for improving power and agility in youth soccer players.



16. Aquatic Plyometric Training Increases Vertical Jump in Female Volleyball Players.

Quote
Similar increases in VJ were observed in both groups after 4 wk (APT = 3.1%, CON = 4.9%; both P < 0.05); however, the APT (AQUATIC PLYOMETRIC TRAINING) group improved by an additional 8% (P < 0.05) from week 4 to week 6, whereas there was no further improvement in the CON group (-0.9%; P = NS). After 6 wk, both groups displayed significant improvements in concentric peak torque during knee extension and flexion at 60 and 180[degrees][middle dot]s-1 (all P < 0.05).



17. Kinematic Responses to Plyometric Exercises Conducted on Compliant and Noncompliant Surfaces

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18. Effects of a plyometric program on vertical landing force and jumping performance in college women

Quote



19. Relationships between three potentiation effects of plyometric training and performance

Quote
Conclusions: Plyometric training specifically potentiated the normalized EMG, tendon stiffness and elastic energy utilization in the myotendinous complex of the triceps surae. Although these changes are possibly essential determinants, only increases of tendon stiffness were observed to correlate with performance improvements.



20. THE EFFECTS OF A 6-WEEK PLYOMETRIC TRAINING PROGRAM ON AGILITY

Quote



21. THE EFFECT OF SHORT-TERM SQUAT VS DEPTH JUMP TRAINING ON VERTICAL JUMP

Quote
The primary results of this experiment indicate that vertical jump was not significantly improved with short-term plyometric or squat training using the design and volume in this study. However, a six-week periodized squat training program did increase 1RM strength. Strength coaches may have to design programs with greater volume or longer duration to elicit significant improvements in vertical jump.



22. Quantifying Plyometric Intensity via Rate of Force Development, Knee Joint, and Ground Reaction Forces

Quote
Results indicate that there are quantitative differences between plyometric exercises in the rate of force development during landing and the forces placed on the knee, though peak GRF forces associated with landing may not differ.



23. Comparative Effect of Three Modes of Plyometric Training on Leg Muscle Strength of University Male Students

Quote
Based on the findings, it was concluded that plyometrics exercises with depth jumping and rebound jumping characteristics are best used in developing muscle strength of the lower extremities.






24. Correlational Effects Of Plyometric Training On Leg Muscle Strength, Endurance And Power Characteristics Of Nigerian University Undergraduates

Quote
Correlation between all other variables was found not to be significant. Based on the finding of the study it was concluded that plyometrics training with repeated jumps horizontally and that which involves rebound jumping on the spot, are capable of improving leg muscle power in similar ways. Moreover, the study also concluded that, plyometrics training is capable of improving leg muscle strength and power significantly




25. The Effect of Drop Jump Starting Height and Contact Time on Power, Work Performed, and Moment of Force

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26. A Multi-Test Assessment of Anaerobic Power in Male Athletes: Implications for Sport Specific Testing

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27. Calcium Sensitivity of Human Single Muscle Fibers following Plyometric Training.

Quote
Conclusion: Plyometric training increased single-fiber Ca2+ sensitivity, especially in type I fibers. These changes could not be explained by a modified TnT isoform expression pattern.




28. Use of an Overhead Goal Alters Vertical Jump Performance and Biomechanics

Quote
These results indicate that overhead goals may be incorporated during training and testing protocols to alter lower-extremity biomechanics and can increase performance.

adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 12:37:44 am »
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adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2009, 06:39:33 pm »
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adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 07:51:35 pm »
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DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE ELITEAND SUB-ELITE SPRINTERS INKINEMATIC AND KINETIC VARIABLESOF DROP JUMP

Quote
AbstractThe aim of the study was to examine differences in an area of take-off strength between the elite and sub-elite sprinters. Drop jump–45cm tests were used as criteria of take-off strength. Sample of measured subjects included 12 best sprinters. They divided in two sub-groups with the official 100-metre sprint running result being used as a grouping criterion. Biomechanical parameters of both jumpswere measured with the use of bipedal tensiometric platform and a system of 9 infraspectral CCD cameras with a 200 Hz frequency.Differences between the groups of sprinters were examined with the use of ANOVA variance analysis. Statistically significant (p< 0.05)differences between the sprinters of both groups were revealed in three kinematic and kinetic parameters. In drop jump, elite and sub-elite sprinters differentiated in the realisation of movement velocity in the eccentric and concentric phases (a difference between thegroups is statistically significant p< 0.05). Elite sprinters better utilise the stretch reflex, which allows them to more efficiently transferelastic energy from first into second phase of take-off action

T0ddday

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2015, 01:16:02 pm »
+1
Hey Andrew, I have a question for you.  I know your big into depth jumping.  Going through the literature it doesn't seem to be clear and I wanted to get your input on this question.  Clearly the literature suggests that:

1) A program involving depth jumping AND practice of the CMJ (running or standing) yields better results than one that only includes practice of CMJ.

This seems to be well supported by the evidence.  However...

Do you think that the same is true in so far as:

1) A program that involves practice of CMJ and rebound jumps (eg repeated vertical jumps to a target, repeated horizontal jumps (double leg bounding, etc)
2) The same program + depth jumping.   Given that the rest intervals for depth jumps were insignificant (15sec, vs 30,60) does it not seem that depth jumps would provide a lot less advantage to a program that already involves repeated jumps (of course repeated jump spacing is far smaller (1-2 seconds) and you can't depth jump with such intervals unless you have a strange stair setup... 

Interested in your thoughts.  Personally, I believe depth jumps provide limited help in a program that already involves a multitude of multiple jumps.

adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2015, 09:02:49 pm »
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Hey Andrew, I have a question for you.  I know your big into depth jumping.  Going through the literature it doesn't seem to be clear and I wanted to get your input on this question.  Clearly the literature suggests that:

1) A program involving depth jumping AND practice of the CMJ (running or standing) yields better results than one that only includes practice of CMJ.

This seems to be well supported by the evidence.  However...

Do you think that the same is true in so far as:

1) A program that involves practice of CMJ and rebound jumps (eg repeated vertical jumps to a target, repeated horizontal jumps (double leg bounding, etc)
2) The same program + depth jumping.   Given that the rest intervals for depth jumps were insignificant (15sec, vs 30,60) does it not seem that depth jumps would provide a lot less advantage to a program that already involves repeated jumps (of course repeated jump spacing is far smaller (1-2 seconds) and you can't depth jump with such intervals unless you have a strange stair setup... 

Interested in your thoughts.  Personally, I believe depth jumps provide limited help in a program that already involves a multitude of multiple jumps.

hey T0ddday. I think DJ's would still be effective in scenario 2. But it depends on what kind of volume/box heights we're using. If we incorporate DJ's with high volume (30-40 total jumps) from a high box (30-40 inches), CMJ & rebounding jumps/bounds would need to play more of an assistance role and as part of a progressively more intense warmup/build up for max intensity depth jumps. Depth jumps in this case would become the entire focus of the session. This form of incorporating depth jumps would yield the best results IMHO, but it's also the most intense & requires far more preparation/safety precautions.

If we incorporate them at lower volume, say 5-15 (3x3, 3x5 etc) total jumps from moderate to fairly high boxes (12-30"), I think they still would provide some benefit but obviously not as much as the scenario above. Instead they would serve as "prep work" if our athletes are not too experienced with them (low boxes) and a tool for strength gain (higher boxes, 24-30"). We could just inject these into a session for the most part.

The DJ itself just represents another level of intensity, so that's why I think it could still be effective in the scenario you posted. It's a method which Verkhoshansky stated would call to action the strength reserves that are protected from conscious recruitment (special and/or innately defended). By providing the supramaximal stimulus of depth jumping from high boxes, you tap into these reserves. A quote from supermethods (dammit can't copy+paste):

Quote
So, when an athlete lifts a barbell or executes an ordinary vertical jump, the effort is entirely volitional. Everything depends on his concentrated effort and the mobilization of motor potential. If the sportsman conducts a vertical take-off after a depth jump with the aim of flying up as high as possible or runs down a slight incline at maximum speed, these conditions force his central nervous and physiological systems to exceed the ordinary boundaries. The creation of such conditions in the training process is the forced intensification of the work regime which becomes a potent training stimulus.

Apparently, under these conditions, the body mobilizes any innate mechanisms designed by nature to be available for these and even more complex, extreme situations.

- reserves employed in reactive movements (15%)
- physiological reserves employed under conditions of elevated motor activity (20%)
- special reserves mobilized only under conditions of muscle performance of great intensity or long duration (35%)
- innately defended reserves mobilized only in extreme, life-threatening situations (30%)

The special and innately defended reserves are distinguished by their mobilization barrier, inhibited by the central nervous system. Overcoming this barrier under normal living conditions is precluded by a protective inhibition, which forces the body to reduce the intensity of work, or cease it.

...

Experiments conducted in my lab demonstrated that the aforementioned "protected" functional reserves of the body are inaccessible regardless of the intensity of the volutional effort without special long-term training.

...

Consequently, it is necessary to create the training conditions that will force the body to mobilize the hidden (concealed) functional reserves and to form central-nervous system mechanisms for their application, ie. to make them accessible for mobilization from a strength-of-will impulse.

-- http://www.verkhoshansky.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=bBhPjzgn%2B0A%3D&tabid=92&mid=426

So, he says you can tap into the "special reserves" through years of specialized training, which is what bounds and various jumping drills are. But, to tap into these "innately defended" reserves, you need "Super Methods", ie depth jumps or downhill sprints etc.

So, DJ in my opinion (and experience) is a much more intense tool than pretty much all of the reactive work. Incorporating it as prep work or in lower volume should provide some benefit. I've seen studies claiming benefits in a variety of protocols, but not sure if some of those studies showed benefits simply from supplementing them into an existing program full of beneficial reactive work.

Also, He never mentions single leg bounding in the same area as depth jumps, ie a super method.. if it isn't, it has to be creeping close to that spectrum though, single leg bounds are very intense.

I don't think it should be prescribed high volume + high box height in combination with lots of other work. Then I think it would actually be very detrimental & extremely risky.

On another note, i've done sessions with TONS of reactive work. Overdoing it to the max, all kinds of different varieties of things. I don't recall any of that being as intense as 4x10 depth jumps from 30". 40 total DJ's from 30" had my CNS destroyed and next-day ligaments/tendons feeling wrecked. Performing DJ's towards the second half (reps 5-10) of a set required some serious focus; it felt on the level of a max effort single in terms of how I would have to dial in. I havn't experienced that from lower volume protocols such as 3x3, 3x5 etc.

Finally.. My body is afraid of depth jumping until it's actually prepared. I can go do double leg bounds, kangaroo hops, attempt single leg bounds right now with my severe lack of prepardness.. However, if someone told me to go perform some DJ's from 30" i'd have some serious inhibition. I'd actually be afraid to do it. I could do a depth drop from 30" but I wouldn't even try a DJ from 30" right now (without prepping for several weeks). I find that interesting.


pc!!!

T0ddday

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015, 02:22:54 pm »
+1

So, DJ in my opinion (and experience) is a much more intense tool than pretty much all of the reactive work. Incorporating it as prep work or in lower volume should provide some benefit. I've seen studies claiming benefits in a variety of protocols, but not sure if some of those studies showed benefits simply from supplementing them into an existing program full of beneficial reactive work.

Also, He never mentions single leg bounding in the same area as depth jumps, ie a super method.. if it isn't, it has to be creeping close to that spectrum though, single leg bounds are very intense.

I don't think it should be prescribed high volume + high box height in combination with lots of other work. Then I think it would actually be very detrimental & extremely risky.

On another note, i've done sessions with TONS of reactive work. Overdoing it to the max, all kinds of different varieties of things. I don't recall any of that being as intense as 4x10 depth jumps from 30". 40 total DJ's from 30" had my CNS destroyed and next-day ligaments/tendons feeling wrecked. Performing DJ's towards the second half (reps 5-10) of a set required some serious focus; it felt on the level of a max effort single in terms of how I would have to dial in. I havn't experienced that from lower volume protocols such as 3x3, 3x5 etc.

Finally.. My body is afraid of depth jumping until it's actually prepared. I can go do double leg bounds, kangaroo hops, attempt single leg bounds right now with my severe lack of prepardness.. However, if someone told me to go perform some DJ's from 30" i'd have some serious inhibition. I'd actually be afraid to do it. I could do a depth drop from 30" but I wouldn't even try a DJ from 30" right now (without prepping for several weeks). I find that interesting.


Interesting stuff.  I guess my question more specifically is what do you think is unique to the depth jump that makes it more than reactive work, what specifically makes it a super method?  Is there:

1) Something involved in stepping off the box?  This seems unlikely.  If it isn't that then why would the following not be a super method:

Jump up grab the rim with two hands (32 inch jump for me).  Hang on rim.  Release and upon landing jump back up and grab rim again.  Would these rim grabs not be a super method?  If not, then why not??

2) Something involved with the rest interval between each rep?  Maybe?  If not then why would repeated 30''+ jumps not be a super method?  Ie jump vertical in place 30'' and repeat 10x times.

3) Something involved in the reversal of force in only the vertical direction?  If not, then why wouldn't bounds or hurdle hops qualify as a super method provided the athlete goes 30'' in the air and comes down and rebounds.

Finally, I tried a few depth jumps.  I jumped off a 34'' box and landed and touched a ceiling that is 10'1 I was able to get into the ceiling about 2 inches so it's about a 10'3 touch or a 31 inch jump for me.  At the time I was wearing a weighted vest + weighted shorts (20+15) so my bodyweight went from 215 to 240 and my standing vertical touch was just barely 10'.  Given that I am jumping higher off the box means I must be using some of the landing force in my jump.  However, I timed the landing time and it was 0.44 seconds.  Does the longer landing time disqualify it from being a depth jump?   I took a video of the last two, let me know what you think (I realize if I embark on this it would be best without the additional weight, but I was already wearing it and wanted to get a video)...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8</a>

Dreyth

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015, 03:21:59 pm »
+1
So I'm wondering... how much do depth jumps help your standing vertical in relation to your... depth jumps?

I mean say you have a 30" standing vert. You do DJ from a two foot box and get 32"
Let's say you do them for a few weeks and now your DJ from two foot boxes get you to a 35" jump.

Will your standing vert have increased by the same amount?


I like to do 5 max effort standing jumps before squatting. Should I switch to DJs?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 03:25:36 pm by Dreyth »
I'm LAKERS from The Vertical Summit

adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2015, 04:41:36 pm »
0

So, DJ in my opinion (and experience) is a much more intense tool than pretty much all of the reactive work. Incorporating it as prep work or in lower volume should provide some benefit. I've seen studies claiming benefits in a variety of protocols, but not sure if some of those studies showed benefits simply from supplementing them into an existing program full of beneficial reactive work.

Also, He never mentions single leg bounding in the same area as depth jumps, ie a super method.. if it isn't, it has to be creeping close to that spectrum though, single leg bounds are very intense.

I don't think it should be prescribed high volume + high box height in combination with lots of other work. Then I think it would actually be very detrimental & extremely risky.

On another note, i've done sessions with TONS of reactive work. Overdoing it to the max, all kinds of different varieties of things. I don't recall any of that being as intense as 4x10 depth jumps from 30". 40 total DJ's from 30" had my CNS destroyed and next-day ligaments/tendons feeling wrecked. Performing DJ's towards the second half (reps 5-10) of a set required some serious focus; it felt on the level of a max effort single in terms of how I would have to dial in. I havn't experienced that from lower volume protocols such as 3x3, 3x5 etc.

Finally.. My body is afraid of depth jumping until it's actually prepared. I can go do double leg bounds, kangaroo hops, attempt single leg bounds right now with my severe lack of prepardness.. However, if someone told me to go perform some DJ's from 30" i'd have some serious inhibition. I'd actually be afraid to do it. I could do a depth drop from 30" but I wouldn't even try a DJ from 30" right now (without prepping for several weeks). I find that interesting.


Interesting stuff.  I guess my question more specifically is what do you think is unique to the depth jump that makes it more than reactive work, what specifically makes it a super method?

well in regards to depth jumps, the ability to overload using the height of the falling body is what makes it unique. In the case of sprinting, some form of overspeed while maintaining mechanics (downhill sprinting or some kind of wind tunnel, who knows heh!) would qualify as a super method because you're using the falling body as an added stimulus. we can increase the height of the box/drop (depth jumps) or decrease the angle (down hill sprinting). I need to see if there are any studies on downhill sprinting, I remember doing searches before but I forget the results. Verk mentions it on several occasions but most of his actual data revolves around DJ's.



Quote
Is there:

1) Something involved in stepping off the box?

nah

Quote
This seems unlikely.  If it isn't that then why would the following not be a super method:

Jump up grab the rim with two hands (32 inch jump for me).  Hang on rim.  Release and upon landing jump back up and grab rim again.  Would these rim grabs not be a super method?  If not, then why not??

right, that's basically a DJ. the only difference is you can't increase the height of the drop precisely, resting seems more difficult, controling angles isn't as easy (you drop right down), and gathering yourself would probably be more effective if you drop off of a box.. but it's the same concept IMHO.



Quote
2) Something involved with the rest interval between each rep?  Maybe?  If not then why would repeated 30''+ jumps not be a super method?  Ie jump vertical in place 30'' and repeat 10x times.

well it sounds like it would be but, if you can repeatedly jump 10x and hit 30", then a 30" box is probably too small to be effective overload as a super method. In that case you might need a 36" box etc. The fact that someone jump 10x in a row with no rest in between (rebounding vertical jumps) and hit 30" means that it is a submax effort, a "10RM" in a sense. So that athlete would need a higher box to tap into that "protected motor potential".

I mean I guess you can label DJ's from 12" "shock", but, it's not true shock in the sense that it isn't a powerful enough overload stimulus. So 30" is the low end of Verk's recommendation, 42" on the high end. Box height is determined by the performance/strength stats of the athlete.


Quote
3) Something involved in the reversal of force in only the vertical direction?  If not, then why wouldn't bounds or hurdle hops qualify as a super method provided the athlete goes 30'' in the air and comes down and rebounds.

Same reason as above. If an athlete can get their COG 30" above ground on DL/SL bounds etc, they already posses the "special strength" to produce and absorb/redirect that force voluntarily. So in order to tap into that extra motor potential, they would need to practice DJ's from higher boxes.

Even with single leg bounds, if you're able to keep bounding and reach some y-height (30" for example), it's a voluntary effort and according to Verk, falls within your "special strength" motor potential, not the "defended motor potential".



Quote
Finally, I tried a few depth jumps.  I jumped off a 34'' box and landed and touched a ceiling that is 10'1 I was able to get into the ceiling about 2 inches so it's about a 10'3 touch or a 31 inch jump for me.  At the time I was wearing a weighted vest + weighted shorts (20+15) so my bodyweight went from 215 to 240 and my standing vertical touch was just barely 10'.  Given that I am jumping higher off the box means I must be using some of the landing force in my jump.  However, I timed the landing time and it was 0.44 seconds.  Does the longer landing time disqualify it from being a depth jump?   I took a video of the last two, let me know what you think (I realize if I embark on this it would be best without the additional weight, but I was already wearing it and wanted to get a video)...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbTVp0yAcu8</a>

looks good. form-wise, it could perhaps use a bit more of a pronounced step off (one leg, arms come together, then other leg as you gather in the air then drive the arms back), and actively dorsiflexing the ankles as you step off, but that's debatable anyway.

I don't think that GCT disqualifies it at all.. you would have to compare it to unweighted jumps and making sure you are rehearsing the correct cues:

"land with a spring and then fly as high as possible" -- SSTM p100

that cue determines the correct execution of the exercise, according to Verk. So, if you practiced DJ's semi-frequently (low volume) and rehearsed the correct cues (and performed them without extra weight), then whatever your GCT is I would imagine it is acceptable (within reason, 1+ second is unacceptable for example). As you improve MaxS, ExS, ReaS, that GCT should either stay the same while producing more force, or perhaps decrease while producing as much or more force.



i'm going to type out a few sections from SSTM on Shock & DJ's.. it will be worth it, some nice information in there and he says it alot better than I can say it :D

give me a bit!

pc man!

adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2015, 04:48:25 pm »
0
So I'm wondering... how much do depth jumps help your standing vertical in relation to your... depth jumps?

I mean say you have a 30" standing vert. You do DJ from a two foot box and get 32"
Let's say you do them for a few weeks and now your DJ from two foot boxes get you to a 35" jump.

Will your standing vert have increased by the same amount?

maybe not by the same amount, but yes it should increase. Your DJ improving by 3" implies improvements in maximum strength, explosive strength, and reactive strength. So by that alone, and the high amount of dynamic correspondence towards a counter movement jump, you should definitely see improvements in CMJ.

The drop height can add the extra load to your body which you're utilizing via the strength shortening cycle and such.. so without the box, you would now have to generate that force with a much less powerful stimulus (the counter movement).. but, the DJ should be improving several strength qualities that you will be able to voluntarily express during your CMJ.


Quote
I like to do 5 max effort standing jumps before squatting. Should I switch to DJs?

i'd still warmup with some CMJ's before DJ's.. and you'd still need to spend a few weeks prepping on lower boxes, don't jump right into a 30" box. You should easily be able to handle an 18" box for a few weeks, then try a 24" box.. re-evaluate after a few weeks using the 24" box.

use your CMJ prior to the DJ to set a goal for you to beat when you're DJ'n. A vertical goal (touch height etc) is important.

pc man

Dreyth

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 05:59:14 pm »
0
So I'm wondering... how much do depth jumps help your standing vertical in relation to your... depth jumps?

I mean say you have a 30" standing vert. You do DJ from a two foot box and get 32"
Let's say you do them for a few weeks and now your DJ from two foot boxes get you to a 35" jump.

Will your standing vert have increased by the same amount?

maybe not by the same amount, but yes it should increase. Your DJ improving by 3" implies improvements in maximum strength, explosive strength, and reactive strength. So by that alone, and the high amount of dynamic correspondence towards a counter movement jump, you should definitely see improvements in CMJ.

The drop height can add the extra load to your body which you're utilizing via the strength shortening cycle and such.. so without the box, you would now have to generate that force with a much less powerful stimulus (the counter movement).. but, the DJ should be improving several strength qualities that you will be able to voluntarily express during your CMJ.

I'm going to be annoying for a second and mentally masturbate

How much more effective are DJ's than CMJ's at improving the CMJ?

advantages of DJ: increased load leading to slight max strength improvements, rate coding improvements, reactive strength improvement (can we define reactive btw)

advantages of CMJ: specificity to the CMJ... but I'm sure it can also improve reactive strength to some extent and rate coding and all that.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 06:01:25 pm by Dreyth »
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Dreyth

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 06:03:30 pm »
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Oh another thing

I think a long time ago an article was posted about why exactly a plyometric movement leads to more strength output. and it said it's mainly caused by the tendons stretching so that the muscle can contract isometrically for a moment rather than concentrically the whole time. the advantage this gives is that muscles can contract with more force eccentrically, then isometrically, than concentrically.

anyone know what I'm talking about? its very interesting and makes a lot of sense
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Dreyth

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2015, 06:23:25 pm »
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Is explosive strength training that is not reactive-based necessary at all in the face of reactive training?!

I mean, what do paused jump squats do that depth jumps can't?
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Merrick

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2015, 06:30:28 pm »
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I will also add another question to Dreyth's multiple great questions (that I also am wondering the answers to)

Adarq,

Would Depth Jumps be effective improving CMJ and DLRVJ for someone who is VERY hip dominant?  Little knee bend, lots of forward bending at the hips/waist, very glute dominant jumper.  A DJ is very quad dominant.  I'm assuming DJ's in this sense will not have much of a carryover since there isn't much of that quad strength/dominance for the DJ's to take advantage of/peak out right?

Maybe for these guys, backward DJ's would be better?

edit:

Also, So if someone increased overall lower body strength significantly using something not THAT intensive like 3 x 8 intensity of squats,  he can obviously can peak out his maximal strength gains without any hypertrophy by recruiting more already present motor units through traditional high intensity low rep squats (something like 4 x 3 @ 90%+).

Can this also be done without low rep heavy lifting and instead using intense depth jumps (although may not be as efficient/fast as low rep lifting)???
« Last Edit: December 17, 2015, 06:44:27 pm by Merrick »

adarqui

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Re: depth jumps & depth drops
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2015, 08:08:04 pm »
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From SSTM for Coaches! Verk's last book (epic book). Written verbatim, some grammatical weirdness is due to the authors.


(p87-88)

2.4.2 Shock Regime

The Shock Regime is characterized by a sharp, sudden force effort of muscles stretched by a former short, powerful impact against an external opposition. It is used to develop Explosive Strength, Reactive Ability, and Maximal Strength. This regime is characterized by a great training effect on the motor and neuromuscular system and on the central mechanism that regulates muscle contractile function. At the end of the 1960s, after having verified its efficacy in sport practice, it was adopted as special training regime for high-level athletes only.

The Shock Regime was thoroughly investigated in the Y.Verkhoshansky's research in 1960s.  The idea behind this method is in the use of the body (or training device) kinetic energy, accumulated in its free fall, to stimulate neuromuscular tension. The neuromuscular tension is provided at the contact after dropping from a specific measured height. The body landing causes a relatively short phase of amortization that causes a sharp 'shock' stretching of the muscles. That brings to two interrelated reactions of the neuro-muscular system:

- increasing the motor neurons stimulation intensity;
- creating an elastic potential of muscle tension.

That assures an increase in speed of the subsequent muscle contraction during the fast switching from pliometric (yielding) to miometric (overcoming) regime.

<skipped info regarding the use of the term pliometric, plyometric, etc>

According to Y. Verkhoshansky, also the use of the term 'pliometric', to define the Shock Method, is not correct; the principal training factor involved in this method is not simply the former muscles stretching in yielding regime, but rather the fast switching from sharp shock stretching to vigorous contraction. The simplest form of performing the exercise in the Shock Regime is the Depth Jump; a vertical double leg jump after a drop down from a carefully measured height.

this part is related to devices similar to the Plyo Swing, but still good info (not as much this next paragraph, but the one after):

A particular form of Shock Regime exercises for training different muscle groups is showing in Fig. 2.12 (picture weights on some pulley system falling on you and then you push them etc, heh). At the start, the weight is freely lowered, approximately 2/3 of the total range of movement, it is followed by a sharp downwards-upwards movement. The consequent fast twitching of the muscles, from yielding to overcoming regime, produce a vigorous acceleration of the load. In order to avoid injury it is necessary to provide limiting devices to block the movement of weight from going further than necessary.

In the preparation of the exercise execution, consider the following:

- The starting position is selected after taking into consideration the position of the body at which the maximum working effort is expressed in the competition exercises.
- The initial pathway should be minimal but sufficient to create the shock tension in the muscles.
- The size of the shock effect is determined by the overload weight and by the height from which it falls. The optimal combination of these two factors has to be empirically determined. However, preference should always be given to greater height rather than greater weight.
- The exercises in the Shock Regime should be executed only after an adequated warm up.
- The dosage for shock exercises depends on the 'quality' of execution and should not exceed 4 sets of 10 repetitions. When the athlete executes for the first time this exercise, than the dosage should not exceed 2-3 sets of 5-8 repetitions.

It must be eemphasized that the Shock Method is not to be taken lightly. Recently, mainly in the USA, variants of depth jumps have been presented by many authors. They often suggest exceeding the optimum dosage of Depth Jumps and the recommended height of the drop-down, as well as their use for low level athlete.

The Shock Method has an extraordinarily strong training effect on the nervous-muscular system; considerably stronger than any other natural method of stimulation of the contractile activity of the muscles. It is, therefore, inadmissible to exceed the optimum dosage and duration of Depth Jumps use in the training process, as well as the recommended height of the drop-down. The Depth Jumps have a strong training effect on the ligaments and joints and, consequently, it is necessary to:

- prepare the athlete in advanced, performing jumping and resistance exercises.
- study the technique of executing exercises in the Shock Regime, especially when the muscles are working in the push-off (take-off) after the drop down. This is not as simple as it may seem so initially;
- never use the Shock Regime when tired (when muscles are sore), when undergoing the treatment for injuries or in combinations of resistance exercises in different regimes.

The Shock Method is for high-level athletes. It should never be applied in the training of low-level athletes. for the latter, there are different and sufficiently effective SST (Special Strength Training) means.

It is incorrect to overestimate the possibilities of the Shock Method. It is only one of many ways of intensifying the work of the neuro-muscular system. Shock Method used alone, cannot replace all the other methods, it should be applied together with other means and methods and have a definite place in the SST system.



(p99-100)

3.4 Depth Jump

Depth Jump or Shock Method Jump is a very efficacious mean for developing Explosive Strength and Reactive Ability. At the present time this is a training means that is popular and its use is widespread all over the world. Although it has acquired many take-off execution variants, its main form is the vertical two leg take-off.

Despite its apparent simplicity, the eecution technique of Depth Jump is quite complex and in many cases, it is performed incorrectly. First of all, this can lead to an excessive load to the knee and tibio-tarsic joint, creating a trauma risk. Secondly, it can reduce the training effect of this exercise on the organism.

This is the reason why, at the beginning of Depth Jump use, it's worth illustrating the correct execution of this exercise. After, the athlete must not think about it: correct execution of this exercise will be obtained to the athlete's correct understanding of the motor trend of this exercise.

Drop Phase - The Drop Jump (stepping off an elevated surface) is an important particular of the tecnique that greatly influences the correct execution of the whole exercise.

The athlete must not step off with both the legs, but rather take a step forward with one leg and, at the beginning of the fall, bring the other leg forward, reuniting the two legs. The athlete must not bend the legs prior to stepping off the elevated surface (legs must be straight) and must not jump, but drop forward - the fall trajectory must be perpendicular to the ground.

Landing Phase - The athlete must land on both legs, on the ball of the feet, and then quickly lean back on the heels. Landing should be flexible with a substantial passage to cushioning and then to take off.

Cushing and Take-Off Phase - The passage from cushioning to take-off is very quick. Before the landing both the arms are put backward and at the moment of the take-off they should move upwards with a quick and powerful thrust. The cushioning and take-off phases should be executed as a single action with a powerful concentrated effort.

Flight after the take-off phase - To reach the highest point of flight after the take-off, the athlete should fix a point of reference (for example, a small flag) to reach for, trying to touch it with one or both hands. After the flying, the athlete should gently land on the balls of both feet with a flexible cushioning.

"Land with a spring and then fly as high as possible" - this should be the motor trend that the athlete should acquire for facilitating the correct technical execution of the exercise. The athlete's understanding of the Depth Jump motor trend determines the correct execution of all its phases and its training effect on the neuro-muscular system. The visual point of reference (small flag) is a very important element; it emphasizes the final goal of this exercise.

The Depth Jump has a very strong effect on the central nervous system and on the muscular-skeletal system. This is why it should be used, above all, in the training of well-prepared athletes and only after a preparation period that includes a substantial volume of bounding exercises and jumps with an overload.

The athlete should begin with low drop height, from 0.4 to 0.5m, and gradually work up to reaching the optimal height of 0.75m. He must not use other jump exercises after the depth jump, especially when tired or suffering muscle pain or traumas that have yet to heal.



(p102)

Improving Reactive Ability

1) Depth Jumps:
- For high level athletes the optimal height of a depth jump is 0.75m
- Athletes of high preparation- dosage in a training session should not exceed 4 series with 10 takeoffs.
- Athletes of lesser preparation - 2-3 series with 6-8 repetitions, with 60cm height.
- The 4-5 minute rest periods between series consists of jogging and relaxation and flexibility exercises.
- During the preparation period, the takeoff exercises after the depth jump should be executed in a fixed quantity, 2 times (at most 3 times), and only after the preparation of preliminary strength (with overload) and the preparation of jumps and bounds.
- During the competition period they represent an efficacious means to maintain the achieved level of special physical preparation. In this period one should include them in the training once a week and then reduce their training frequency to once every 7-8 days before competitions.




so that's from his book SSTM for Coaches.

Also, there's more info in this article on his site: http://www.verkhoshansky.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=bBhPjzgn%2B0A%3D&tabid=92&mid=426