Author Topic: length-tension-motor-pool Volume Sessions (LTMP-VOLUME sessions)  (Read 10745 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
length-tension-motor-pool (LTMP-VOLUME) sessions.






Ok so the title sounds really advanced, but that's just because I can't really think of a cool title for this blog. As usual, going to try and keep it very short, this is more of a concept blog and one should realize I've only recently been utilizing this exact ideology of training, so it's long term effects are unknown, which in fact could predispose someone to even greater risk of injury. So keep that in mind. Though, so far so good.



I had this huge blog written but i'm going to keep this ridiculously simple.

If your goal is elite performance, you need to stimulate the highest threshold motor units of your prime movers on a daily basis, in fact possibly multiple times per day. Why do we allow our highest threshold MU's to lay dormant for days until our next max effort session? Training at a very high velocity, daily, is dangerous, so tapping into the fastest MU's using high velocity + high frequency training has far more risks than benefits, which include physiological, neural, and psychological fatigue. So what is the solution? To stimulate as much MU's as possible, every day, using submax intensity + "fatiguing work". This means, operating at 60-80% of 1RM and performing reps non stop, tempo doesn't matter, absolutely no rest in between, until failure or very close to it. This method becomes much safer than high frequency 90+% lifting, as it is far less draining neurologically, and is in fact very much restorative due to blood flow/temporary hypoxic environment. Thus, tapping into these MU's daily, or multiple times daily, using less fatiguing and in fact restorative methods, encourages growth of the entire motor pool, improves motor learning which builds connections which access these highest threshold MU's, aids in recovery, results in a significant amount of post-activation-potentiation (PAP/STIM), and should improve strength in regards to motor learning of the specific movements (such as improving strength at half squat depth).
 
So what does this mean? It means we can train at a relatively high intensity, using a submax RE method, which allows us to train more per week, month, and year than we ever thought possible. The amount of sessions we can handle per day, or week, depend on our progression & development of our work capacity. People accustomed to high frequency training can get away with multiple sessions per day. People who have no experience in high frequency training would need to stay strictly within the 1x/day limit for safety reasons. Regardless, progression of this ideology of training results in endless capability for growth. The percentages used per LTMP-VOLUME session can vary, as long as the tempo, no-rest, velocity, and "failure" guidelines are adhered to. This allows us to take advantage of what is considered the most powerful form of motor learning: randomized learning aka contextual interference (as opposed to block learning). Keep in mind these sessions are supplementary, they should not result in one "changing their program" to account for the LTMP-VOLUME sessions. The LTMP-VOLUME sessions are to be non fatiguing and in fact restorative, so they have no bearing on your actual "program".

So we covered the motor pool aspect, but what about the "length tension" relationship. This is where we kill two birds with one stone, if that even makes sense. Part of the motor learning aspect of this training, involves improving the resting length of our muscles/fascia prior to each LTMP-VOLUME session (well, the stretching part is considered the beginning of the ltmp-VOLUME session). Each LTMP-VOLUME session starts with mobility work of some sort, which can include but is not limited to: static stretching, pnf stretching, dynamic stretching/mobility/warmup, etc. Regardless of the method chosen, the idea is to "improve resting length" of key muscle groups. For lower body, this includes calfs, quads, hip flexors, hamstrings, glutes, adductors, and lats. So, prior to hitting our restorative squat, we would spend 15-30 minutes stretching to improve resting-length. Improving resting length WITHOUT improving the tension relationship is a problem, so, if we simply stretch without reinforcing the "tension relationship", we have a major problem. This is where we kill two birds with one stone. We lengthen, then utilize these muscle groups under tension in their slightly improved length. This will hopefully allow us to improve flexibility rather quickly while maintaining proper tonus in these muscle groups, for example, jello legs no longer exist from a long bout of static stretching, they in fact feel "loose" and ridiculously "springy", the active tonus is there, they are ready to fire.

So, putting it together, we lengthen, warmup using this "temporary" lengthened position, then perform a high rep submax fatiguing resistance exercise using these muscle groups, which if done using a high frequency approach, will result in very quick motor learning, recovery, stim, and thus more power.

An example LTMP-VOLUME session might look like this:


Stretching of various muscle groups: 15-30 minutes
Half squat: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F.
Done.



Something I'm thinking will work really good also will be this, have been doing it since tonight and it feels even better because of the interval sprints:


Stretching of various muscle groups: 15-30 minutes
Light interval sprints: Build up intensity over 10-20 sprints, do not exceed 70% effort
Half squat: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F.



Edited in, 03/19/2011: Another idea that might work, would be to hit a variety of exercises in the same manner, for example:


Stretching of various muscle groups: 15-30 minutes (upper AND lower)
Light interval sprints: Build up intensity over 10-20 sprints, do not exceed 70% effort
Half squat: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F.
Calf raises: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F.
Pullups: Warmup x ?, Work set x F
Pushups/dips: Warmup x ?, Work set x F



Edited in, 03/25/2011: Some other stuff:


Light completely stiff leg ankle hops: 4-5 x 25-50
RDL: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F.
Pullups: Warmup x ?, Work set x F
Calve Raises: Warmup 30% x 10, 60-80% x F


A good idea could be to alternate "knee bend exercises" (a-chain dominant: front/back/half squat/pin squat etc) with "stiff leg exercises" (p-chain dominant: 45 deg hyper, rdl, rev hyper, and let's include GHR), one could do this every other day, or rotating through the sessions throughout the day.

This method can most likely be used for more than squat, of course, but my guinea pig status stops at squat. One could do 3-4 squat sessions per day in this manner, or do a different lift per session. With all the talk of "neural charge", this is beyond a neural charge.

As far as injuries are concerned, I actually feel better following these LTMP-VOLUME sessions. My knees and all muscle groups become lighter and feel stronger/more explosive throughout the day. I've been utilizing this for nearly 2 weeks now and I don't know when I'm going to stop, because I can simply back off on the intensity per LTMP-VOLUME session to 60% and achieve failure on those, achieving basically the same effect.

So to summarize, why are we not stimulating the highest threshold MU's in the prime movers specific to our goals on a daily basis, or in fact, multiple times per day? If we can do so, job/school/life situations withstanding, then the potential for growth is endless. The potential for power, strength, hypertrophy, and PAP/STIM adaptations are enormous.

Here's my sessions over the last week or so, and my legs have never felt better. They in fact feel the best using the higher rep sessions and that is what i'm sticking with:

- 03/08/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squat: 225 x 5 {6pm, 7pm, 10pm}, one heavy half squat session also
- 03/09/2011: 4 sessions of pin 6 squat {3:30pm=225x5, 5:30pm=225x5, 2am=245x5, 4am=225x5}
- 03/10/2011: 2 sessions of pin 6 squat {11pm=225x10, 12:30am=225x10}, 2 heavy half squat sessions also
- 03/11/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squat {6pm=225x10, 9pm=225x10, 1am=225x10}
- 03/12/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squat {6pm=245x5, 9pm=245x5, 1:40am=245x5}
- 03/13/2011: 1 session of pin 6 squat {10am=225x5}, dunking, heavy squat session at night
- 03/14/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squat {7:30pm=135x10,225x5,275x5,295x1,315x1, pullups=10}, {11:30pm=135x8,225x5,275x5,295x1,315x1, pullups=8, prone-reverse-hyper=100}, {3am=prone-reverse-hyper BW@5x50, 135x8,225x5,275x5,295x1,315x1, pullups=10}
- 03/15/2011: 4 sessions of pin 6 squat {6pm=225x5, 2am=225x10, 3:30am=225x10, 5am=225x10}
- 03/16/2011: 2 sessions of pin6 squat {9pm=135x8,225x15,  12am=135x8,225x15}
- 03/17/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squats {9pm=135x8,245x10  2:30am=135x8,245x10  5am=135x8,245x12}
- 03/18/2011: 3 sessions of pin 6 squats {7pm=interval sprint + 265 x 10,  9pm=interval sprint + 265 x 8  3:30am=interval sprint + 265x10}

Again, keep in mind this is experimental, if you try it, start out with just 1 session per day and 60-70% of 1RM for at least a week or so, see how you feel, and make sure you get the stretching in, that is apart of this ideology. As always, listen to your body and back off when needed.

Make sure you keep your ego in check and keep it safe, this is supplementary to your normal routine which gives you all the more excuse to stay lighter and not push your limits per session. Pushing your limits comes through the frequency + STIM effect of this style of training.

peace

dirksilver

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 296
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2011, 11:10:52 am »
0
very interesting sir very interesting...with my work schedule and life i don't know if i'd ever be able to do this...i could probably get 4 sessions a week 2 out of 3 weeks but and then maybe 2 the other...but no better and even that would be pretty tough to make!

what do the other resident scholars think?

keep erybody post so we see how you progress bah

JayC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 112
  • Respect: +6
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2011, 11:30:31 am »
0
Sounds really interesting, I would defintley like to try this out some time but I should probaly stay with i'm doing for now.
How often do you lift heavy mutilple sets (if ever) then?
"He can already play ball, run & dunk. 
He's already an accomplished athlete from what he's already doing."

zgin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
  • Respect: +2
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2011, 12:44:12 pm »
0
can i try this for lunges?
37.5

AlexV

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Respect: +19
    • View Profile
    • Evolutionary Athletics
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2011, 02:41:16 pm »
0
Check out the new look and updates

http://evolutionaryathletics.com

AlexV

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 145
  • Respect: +19
    • View Profile
    • Evolutionary Athletics
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2011, 02:59:10 pm »
0
Also reminds me of Thib's Perfect rep system a bit where you are essentilly waveloading between 60 and 85% of your 3RM  So closer to 80%1rm.  Only Thibs recommends lifting explosively.  I guess Adarq, according to this, would argue it is neurally more draining.  Personally I always feel fresher using the DE parameters in these %'s as opposed to getting near failure in the squat.

Of course he limits reps to the 1-5 rep range with more sets. So you are not training to fatigue.  You end up hitting 18-30 reps a day that don't approach failure.

And then there is Pavel's and Ross's PTP/GTG approach.

Recently I was reading Bompa's Periodization text and he had said that training frequency and intensity have the greatest impacts on results.  So the best bet is to train at high intensity and high frequency (motor learning) while still being able to recover.

Now this doesn;t mean doing a puke bucket plyo session.  Rather it means high quality.  Jump in sets of low reps (1-5) until your performance peaks or begins to fall and stop!  High intensity = high quality.

Look at your goal and see if you are following this advice.  In the weight room strength speed and max strength are the attributes most closely related to success.  Off the top of my head, alternating weight room work with blocks of PTP (ME) and CT's methods would work best.  Of course CT's system has you closing the explosive strength deficit which would mean that there will be a point where his system has you training kinda PTP style.

I'll close with this:

Pavel refers to training sessions and workouts as "practice".  If we take this concept in mind it may help bring clarity to our training programs.  AQs Dan John, quoting Dan Gable, has said "If it is important do it every day".  The concept of practice has its roots in motor learning.  We are teaching ourselves to be stronger and more explosive.
Check out the new look and updates

http://evolutionaryathletics.com

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14464
  • Respect: +2392
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2011, 04:53:39 pm »
0
So Andrew, for the work sets, do you do one work set to failure?

Meaning, a session is stretching + 1 warmup set + 1 work set then go home?

I was thinking about doing some squats before I go to work, so I could experiment on that doing it every day. Then do my usual workout on the evening.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2011, 06:57:34 pm »
0
very interesting sir very interesting...with my work schedule and life i don't know if i'd ever be able to do this...i could probably get 4 sessions a week 2 out of 3 weeks but and then maybe 2 the other...but no better and even that would be pretty tough to make!

what do the other resident scholars think?

keep erybody post so we see how you progress bah

ya it's definitely easier when you have a power rack at home, makes the LTMP sessions much easier to get in. The actual lifting portion of them could be done in 5-8 minutes. The stretching portion could be done while watching tv etc.

pc man



Sounds really interesting, I would defintley like to try this out some time but I should probaly stay with i'm doing for now.

well that's the thing, you can stay with what you're doing now and incorporate some LTMP sessions.. they are light, restorative, and stimulatory.. they shouldn't negatively impact your current routine at all.



Quote
How often do you lift heavy mutilple sets (if ever) then?

well, i'd rather lift multiple sessions per day, if you can't do that, then i'd still stick with 1 set 1x/day. multi-set moderate-high rep sessions could turn this from restorative/stimulatory to fatiguing.

pC







can i try this for lunges?

sure i don't see why not, just make sure you alternate legs.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 07:15:49 pm »
0

love that, thanks for re-posting it here, applies perfectly..





Quote

i think alot of that applies to this method i am talking about, but, with max effort style lifting, i still prefer to work on speed during the transition of each lift. I think it's better to really work on reversal speed than to just smoothly control the reversal.







Also reminds me of Thib's Perfect rep system a bit where you are essentilly waveloading between 60 and 85% of your 3RM  So closer to 80%1rm.  Only Thibs recommends lifting explosively.  I guess Adarq, according to this, would argue it is neurally more draining.  Personally I always feel fresher using the DE parameters in these %'s as opposed to getting near failure in the squat.

I definitely would find that to be more draining than slow 60-80% higher rep, i know for certain i would really burn myself out quick while working on speed 3-4x/day using those guidelines. I can "feel" the fatigue from higher speed training vs slow controlled moderate-high rep lifting, it's hard to explain but I basically feel shut down when my frequency of explosive lifts is very high, especially if all of these lifts/movements really target the quads. If my quads are at all dead, the only thing I can really do is sprint, jumping/rebounding exercises/explosive squatting are "inhibited" in my mind, again hard to explain, but last night for example, still have quad fatigue from two days prior, I couldn't even do one rebounding tuck jump.. body wouldn't let me, I could force it of course, but i listen to those feelings and back off.. Body did let me do light sprints though, because quads were fine during those movements.

so ya, high freq explosive work really drains me.. I can't jump max back2back days, perhaps it is just an individual thing.



Quote
Of course he limits reps to the 1-5 rep range with more sets. So you are not training to fatigue.  You end up hitting 18-30 reps a day that don't approach failure.

And then there is Pavel's and Ross's PTP/GTG approach.

Recently I was reading Bompa's Periodization text and he had said that training frequency and intensity have the greatest impacts on results.  So the best bet is to train at high intensity and high frequency (motor learning) while still being able to recover.

yup, that's my mindset too, through trial and error thats what i've found to be true for myself and others.. I just can't apply it to ballistic movements, or a host of issues start manifesting themself.




Quote
Now this doesn;t mean doing a puke bucket plyo session.  Rather it means high quality.  Jump in sets of low reps (1-5) until your performance peaks or begins to fall and stop!  High intensity = high quality.

Look at your goal and see if you are following this advice.  In the weight room strength speed and max strength are the attributes most closely related to success.  Off the top of my head, alternating weight room work with blocks of PTP (ME) and CT's methods would work best.  Of course CT's system has you closing the explosive strength deficit which would mean that there will be a point where his system has you training kinda PTP style.

I'll close with this:

Pavel refers to training sessions and workouts as "practice".  If we take this concept in mind it may help bring clarity to our training programs.  AQs Dan John, quoting Dan Gable, has said "If it is important do it every day".  The concept of practice has its roots in motor learning.  We are teaching ourselves to be stronger and more explosive.

excellent quotes and posts..

i completely agree with the "practice" concept and "if it is important do it every day".. What I had to figure out was, what do i do every day?? I obviously can't jump every day, it destroys me.. what I can do every day: submax lifting for moderate-high rep, bodyweight exercises (high rep), light interval sprints from 10-60m, max effort short sprints (10-20m), and that's about it. So jumping is my goal, but it's not something that is "important", the important things are teaching myself to recruit more mu's as much as possible, getting stronger, getting "stimmed", not draining myself, and getting in those light or explosive short sprints to keep that "rebounding stimulus in" without fatiguing my quads.

peace man great posts, loved it.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 07:17:18 pm »
0
So Andrew, for the work sets, do you do one work set to failure?

Meaning, a session is stretching + 1 warmup set + 1 work set then go home?

I was thinking about doing some squats before I go to work, so I could experiment on that doing it every day. Then do my usual workout on the evening.

cool try it out tell me how it goes, this will give you an excuse to go light, relax, and hit some higher rep work :)

yup one work set.. use your 'relaxation techniques' while lifting, stay relaxed, make everything seem effortless and completely controlled, breathe good etc.

get some safe (dont over do it) stretching in prior, then hit those 2 sets of squat and bam, done.. should make you feel really good.

peace

Clarence

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 471
  • Respect: +23
    • View Profile
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 12:33:26 am »
0
Seems like it's working well for you adarqui, but gotta admit i'm a bit weary of it.

I tried a squat daily program last year after reading something by Dan John advocating it...I kept the weight at about 70-80% and only did 1-2 sets...destroyed my hip.  Couldn't squat for about 6wks without pain.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 02:45:50 am »
0
Seems like it's working well for you adarqui, but gotta admit i'm a bit weary of it.

I tried a squat daily program last year after reading something by Dan John advocating it...I kept the weight at about 70-80% and only did 1-2 sets...destroyed my hip.  Couldn't squat for about 6wks without pain.

bet you went deep right??? :)

that's why i stay half.. allows me to do stuff like this without stressing the hip/knee joint nearly as much as below parallel squatting..

my hip felt a little sore the other day but it feels good right now.. that's the key man, going deep is a damn problem for stuff like this.. i'm not saying it can't be done for those with great hip mobility, but people with subpar, half is definitely the way to go.. in the very least, stuff like this gives people an excuse to make use of half squatting etc, and they will fall in love with it.

i'm only doing it off pins too, alot less stressful on the hip.

peace dude

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27564
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +6026
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 05:32:53 am »
0
to add to that, in case people have already read it.. my first HFSE (high frequency squat experiment) resulted in serious hip pain, i was going slightly below parallel, that's what caused me to eventually go half squat, which resulted in extra gains in vert and no hip pain.. so that's how i began half squatting.

so ya, if you do high frequency stuff deep, better listen to your body very well, or just suck it up folks and utilize pin/half squats, they rulz :D

pc

Raptor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14464
  • Respect: +2392
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - raptorescu
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: length-tension-motor-pool Sessions (LTMP sessions)
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 05:56:53 am »
0
In my case, I have no pins so I don't really like to half squat because I'm going to use a bit of a heavier bar and if I can't go up with it anymore... then...