Author Topic: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher  (Read 3673 times)

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alestor91

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Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« on: July 09, 2015, 02:57:09 pm »
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I've always found that I jumped like an inch higher in track shoes and just found out the reason: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10521609

These are the shoes I would normally wear when I used to jump (prior to injury) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005BJ87MI?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage. They improve your RVJ, but in my experience can actually decrease the SVJ. Anyone else have any similar experiences with negative heeled track shoes? Thanks!

vag

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 04:38:32 am »
+1
Never tried it but i was recently trying to find -once again- the best shoes for jumping  and i saw this mentioned.
Nice to see some study to back it up, good job!  :highfive:

Defranco endorses the waffle racers btw. Adarq was so ahead of his time!
woot

maxent

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 05:18:50 am »
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I dont know about negative height shoes but i find i jump higher in non-basketball (generic nike running) shoes. Which makes me wonder wtf is the point of basketball shoes altogether if they dont enable you to run/jump/move as well.
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

Raptor

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 09:18:55 am »
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I have always played ball in running shoes, forever. Basketball shoes = 1 leg jumps of ~24 inches. Running shoes = 1 leg jumps of ~36 inches.

Not to mention the ability to actually move around on defense in a springy, controlled manner. Basketball shoes COMPLETELY disconnect my feet from the ground - I don't feel the ground at all. That's a very big no-no.

The only downsides of the running shoes I have EVER found for playing in them was aggressive lateral movement - sometimes you plant so aggressively that the sole deforms and bends and you just can't do anything about it.

But if you were to make the same move and rigid-ass basketball shoes (with very little exceptions, Kobe 6 being the best shoe ever for both jumping and playing) - those forces that deformed the sole would propagate themselves onto your bones and joints. Trust me, I've been there.

So unless you're a very strong guy that has muscles to take care of all these forces, I'd rather have the shoe sole deform than have these forces infringe upon my joints and bones.

ChrisM

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 12:21:50 pm »
+1
I'll go the other way...I cant hoop in ANYTHING but a basketball shoe for reasons Raptor mentioned. Everything else deforms horribly. Not just on defense but on offense to...crossovers, spin moves, stepbacks...ive tried them all in running shoes and cant even go half speed without feeling like im rolling an ankle.

For the jumping aspect...i think 2 foot jumpers NEED ball shoes because our plants are almost never straight forward, our feet are usually 30-45 degrees off from center. One legged jumpers I can see jumping higher in running shoes as their normally lighter and the forces arent so much lateral as they are fore and aft. Ive been meaning to try some SLRVJs in my Nike Frees....hmmm.
Insert motivational quote here...

alestor91

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 12:32:44 pm »
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Well I don't think I could ever play ball with track shoes, but they certainly helped me hit PRs on running vertical jumps.

Raptor

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2015, 12:39:49 pm »
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I'll go the other way...I cant hoop in ANYTHING but a basketball shoe for reasons Raptor mentioned. Everything else deforms horribly. Not just on defense but on offense to...crossovers, spin moves, stepbacks...ive tried them all in running shoes and cant even go half speed without feeling like im rolling an ankle.

For the jumping aspect...i think 2 foot jumpers NEED ball shoes because our plants are almost never straight forward, our feet are usually 30-45 degrees off from center. One legged jumpers I can see jumping higher in running shoes as their normally lighter and the forces arent so much lateral as they are fore and aft. Ive been meaning to try some SLRVJs in my Nike Frees....hmmm.

Completely agree with everything.

I can "afford" to play in running shoes because I don't play "desperate basketball". As in - I just go straight forward or do a crossover at best, the rest of the time I pass the ball a lot and play "slow and thoughtful".

But if I were to go crazy in terms of speed and quickness (read - out of control) - then yeah, I'll probably have to play in GOOD basketball shoes. And the only good basketball shoe I have ever played in was the Kobe 6. I have Kobe 7s - impossible to play in. Kobe 8 - impossible (and have them half a number too small, so they're awful).

LBSS

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2015, 02:09:56 pm »
+1
2-foot jumper here. i can't even imagine jumping in basketball shoes. way too heavy, way too stiff.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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ChrisM

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2015, 02:12:44 pm »
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Youre one of the few who dont plant 'sideways' as well. :/
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Raptor

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2015, 05:02:39 pm »
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I never get why people plant sideways... honestly, if you're a strength jumper you should plant forward as in a squat more or less, or deadlift.

I think people plant sideways to load a leg more than the other (the first planted leg loads a lot more, and the 2nd leg "blocks" the jump).

ChrisM

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2015, 06:07:41 pm »
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Makes sense Raptor but then you have guys like me that plant 'backwards' to what you would think I would. SL i jump higher off my left leg but I RL plant in a DL jump. :/
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Raptor

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2015, 06:40:42 am »
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Well there are a ton of factors at work. One of them is ankle dorsiflexion - you'll tend to jump better using the leg that has the better ankle dorsiflexion. Also, you'll tend to plant first the leg that has better quad strength/that you can pistol squat better onto. It also matters what kind of "hip control" you have on it, how well your body can extend using your arm (you can reach backwards with your right arm planting RL, but planting LR you just go "up" with your right arm which is a different movement).

And so on and so forth.

Personally, I think it's "natural" for right arm people to jump LR simply because that's the natural move going into a shot, and you also stay LR in the defensive stance position so that you can reach with your right arm forward.

So, assuming you're not already pre-programmed, being a right handed guy from an early age should in principle make you a LR planter.

maxent

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2015, 07:49:31 am »
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I am left handed and I plant RL and SLJ better off my R leg.
Making a new strength setpoint of 75/100/150 on OHP/BP/BS.

Merrick

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2015, 12:05:58 pm »
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There are plenty of good fluid athletic right handed basketball players who jump RL.  The reason ChrisM jumps RL is probably cause his right leg is stronger.  The reason he jumps higher off his L in the 1 foot jump is because of years of basketball playing where jumping off his left leg became very coordinated compared to his right leg (think lay ups for a right handed player).  Most right handed people will have stronger right legs, but the coordination aspect of SL jumping plays a huge role in which they jump higher off unilaterally.

I am right handed and whenever I do any weight room exercise, my right leg always wants to take over cause it's stronger.  However, my L SLRVJ is like 10" higher than my R SLRVJ lol

Raptor

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Re: Negative heeled shoes (track shoes) to jump higher
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2015, 12:50:31 pm »
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There's no logical reason why the right leg would be "stronger", statistically speaking, for right handed individuals. The natural movement for going for a jumpshot is a LR plant, with the right arm going upwards. Same with defensive stance: LR position with the right arm forwards.

The reverse is more true.

RL plants are used, in an almost exclusive fashion I suppose, by volleyball players because they can reach back with the right arm to spike the ball (similar for dunkers).

But my bet is that, statistically, LR is the more common way to plant/stay stable for right handed people.