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Performance Area => Pics, Videos, & Links => Topic started by: TKXII on November 12, 2013, 11:34:15 am

Title: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 12, 2013, 11:34:15 am
Bobsledders are the fastest athletes in the world. American football players are fast too but the average speed of a bobsled team is much higher than that of any other team for any other sport except teams in Track and Field.

In the Bobsled combine athletes must perform a one rep max in the clean and the squat as well as a 60m sprint. Their 30m time and their 30m fly times are recorded electronically. Athletes start with their heel on the starting line (their foot in front of the line effectively), standing. I'm not sure how deep of a squat these athletes perform because I have seen some youtube videos of half squats performed by bobsledding athletes.

Here is an example of a bobsled athlete testing his 60m:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqMHfxHAzrM

They are scored out of 800 points. An athlete may receive a maximum of 100 points in eight categories: 15m time, 30m time, 60m time, 30m flying time, squat, clean, shot toss, and broad jump.

Point awarded to athletes are based on how well they perform. These numbers are found here after clicking on "Combine Test Score Sheet": http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Bobsled-Skeleton-Federation/Results/Combine-Test

Here are the results of the 2013 USA Bobsled Combine:
https://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Bobsled_Skeleton/Documents/Results/Combine%20Test/2013_COMBINE.pdf

The fastest man there is Chris Fogt, who was a former sprinter. Many sprinters do become bobsledders, like Lolo Jones, Craig Pickering, and Chris Fogt.

Here's a cool vid showing other training they do:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBYPhjhy6a4
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: LBSS on November 13, 2013, 06:51:26 am
cool post, except the part about bobsledders being the fastest athletes in the world. the fastest athletes are, beyond obviously, 100m sprinters.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: AGC on November 13, 2013, 07:22:05 am
So let's say Maurice Greene's 60m WR of 6.39sec is 6.28sec when you subtract reaction time. This year in the Calgary combine (which I'm guessing was the highest level of competition) some guy from a standing start runs a 6.26?? I find it hard to believe this isn't more well-known.

http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Bobsled_Skeleton/Documents/Results/Combine%20Test/2013_COMBINE.pdf (http://www.teamusa.org/~/media/USA_Bobsled_Skeleton/Documents/Results/Combine%20Test/2013_COMBINE.pdf)
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 13, 2013, 10:40:08 am
@LBSS - i said for all sports the avg speed is higher except teams in T&F and by that I meant like a 4x1 team (100m relay) for example. Or the USA sprinting team something like that.

@acole14: Time your 30m or 60m dash with:
a) a three point stance with your foot behind the line, but your finger and arms in front of the line
b) bobsled start - with your heel on the line, standing like a wide receiver, and use some extra momentum as the guy in the video demonstrates.

Your times wil be different by at least 0.3s in the 30m, and up to 0.6s in the 60. my 40yd dash times are different by 0.5s with a one step hopping start

So it's very believable.

Take Fogt's 6.26 and do the following:
a) add RT - 0.15s - 6.41s
b) add difference between standing and a block start - 0.3s at least.
You're looking at a 6.7s 60 there.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: LBSS on November 13, 2013, 02:18:05 pm
okay, but the first sentence of your post is "bobsledders are the fastest athletes in the world." just saying.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 13, 2013, 03:10:56 pm
True. Fair enough.

I tend to equate athletes with sport and I don't really consider sprinting a sport even though it is because it's individual
 But it is anyway so yea
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: AGC on November 13, 2013, 05:28:50 pm
@acole14: Time your 30m or 60m dash with:
a) a three point stance with your foot behind the line, but your finger and arms in front of the line
b) bobsled start - with your heel on the line, standing like a wide receiver, and use some extra momentum as the guy in the video demonstrates.

Your times wil be different by at least 0.3s in the 30m, and up to 0.6s in the 60. my 40yd dash times are different by 0.5s with a one step hopping start

So it's very believable.

Take Fogt's 6.26 and do the following:
a) add RT - 0.15s - 6.41s
b) add difference between standing and a block start - 0.3s at least.
You're looking at a 6.7s 60 there.

So what you're saying is that they're NOT the fastest athletes in the world and are just cheating at the start to get faster 60m times?  :trollface:
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 14, 2013, 09:37:27 am
no that's not at all a logical sequential thought to the information I posted nor does it contradict anything I've said thus far.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: vag on November 14, 2013, 01:42:13 pm
Some more data to make this more interesting.

NFL 2012 draft, best 100 40m times:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft/combine/_/year/2012

Times go from 4:33 ( :o ) to 4:63 but it doesn't include reaction time so it would be ~4:50 to ~4:80 if we add an 'average' 0:15 reaction time.


The world record 100m split times:
http://speedendurance.com/2013/04/09/fastest-10-meter-splits/
(http://speedendurance.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/MENS-WORLD-RECORD-100-METER-10m-SPLITS_thumb.jpg)

Carl Lewis 1988 9:92 splits : 40m = 4:78 , 60m =  6:47
Usain Bolt 2009 9:58 splits : 40m = 4:64 , 60m = 6:29


In the bobsled combine, average 45m time is above 5 seconds ( best is 4:85 ) while 60m average is above 6:50 seconds ( best is 6:26 as noted alteady ) and they are with no reaction time AND a hop-start, which combined would add about 0:50 seconds as analyzed by Avishek above.

EDIT :
Duh, i was concluding that NFL are damn fast and easy faster than the bosled but it is 40 YARDS for the NFL so only ~36,5 meters.
So the average 45m for bobsled with reaction time and all is in the 5:50 area while the average 35m average for NFL is in the 4:75 area. The 100m guys do the 30-40 splits in something around 0:9 seconds so what do we have ? A FUCKING TIE!!!

I'm outta here...  :pokerface:
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: AGC on November 14, 2013, 08:51:33 pm
no that's not at all a logical sequential thought to the information I posted nor does it contradict anything I've said thus far.

Right...I'm just gonna let that one go through to the keeper. Anyway, you really should have just said they're amongst the most powerful athletes in the world, which is the real story here. Obviously fast (not fastest in the world fast but damn fast), huge broad jumps and big lifting numbers. I would love to be able to train in the facilities they use and do the stuff they do, it's exactly the type of training for getting a beastly SVJ, and RVJ as well. Kind of weird they don't test SVJ as well.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: Raptor on November 15, 2013, 07:44:29 am
Both me and Nightfly trained with bobsledders and I remember they were doing some 20 rep sets.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 15, 2013, 11:41:49 am


They are definitely not amongst the most powerful athletes, they don't come close to oly lifters. But as far as speed someone still has yet to challenge that for any sport other than sprinting, they are undoubtedly the fastest, after than football players, on average.

So two things here: fastest on average, and fastest. Some football players may be faster than the fastest bobsledders, but I doubt it.

Vag: they don't use a hopping start. They are required to keep the starting foot on the ground. They can lean into it as much as they want. I estimate this would take off 0.3s ish not 0.5s. My hopping start takes 0.5s off my 40yd not 60m. Ill have to time myself though to estimate a better estimate.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: LBSS on November 16, 2013, 06:18:23 am
this is the dumbest argument on the forum in months.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 16, 2013, 02:16:11 pm
Haha no it's not. This is my argument. Modified a bit to be more fair. 

1. Bobsleigh athletes are the fastest in the world for any sport other than sprinting.
2. The average speed on any bobsleigh team is after than for any other team in any other sport except for sprinting.
3. The fastest bobsleigh athletes are among the fastest athletes in the world including sprint athletes and the fastest American football players.
4. Bobsleigh athletes are also among the most powerful athletes in the world based on their performances in the broad jump and power clean.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: AGC on November 16, 2013, 08:03:38 pm

They are definitely not amongst the most powerful athletes, they don't come close to oly lifters.

Nek minnit:


4. Bobsleigh athletes are also among the most powerful athletes in the world based on their performances in the broad jump and power clean.


(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR10wk_QPqKATFBKEf7uY-2rodvkyDZbkaSAMxKSqgST5wgMMpi)

This could have just been a nice little thread showing how bobsledders run really fast and jump really high, but as usual Avishek has to be the biggest know-it-all and it turns into the stupidest thread since the golden era of Harvey M and hyperdunk.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: TKXII on November 16, 2013, 10:56:39 pm
nope, I simply acknowledged what you said and revised my original statement. that's not a contradiction.
Title: Re: Bobsled training and 60m times
Post by: T0ddday on November 20, 2013, 09:41:35 am
Lol, this thread is really silly.  Personally I really hate when the words timed electronically are used to describe something other than FAT timing.  It REALLY leads to confusion.  The 40yd dash is timed electronically, but it isn't FAT.  Now in bobsledding we have this strange standing past the line weird timing.... Since the base it on the footstrike do they end the clock when the foot lands past 60m or the torso crosses?  Wish we could stick to hand-times and electronic (FAT) times.  Would make things simpler. 

Saying they are the fastest requires you to describe what speed is.  200m athletes have the fastest average velocity.   Distance runners certainly are fast over the distances they cover.   In track we call the 100m winner the world fastest because he usually they invariably always hit the highest instantaneously velocity.    Bolt is tops at 12.3 m/s (or a 0.82 10m split).   That's what should be compared when we talk about fastest. 

By FAT reaction time measures the initial reaction (first twitch), this "electronic time" seems to start when your foot leaves the ground.  Way different.  One of the world-record beaters on that list (6.36) is Johnny Quinn who I've run against and he is a 10.6-10.9 guy.   I promise if you put a world class sprinter in this test they would all be sub 6.