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Messages - Coges

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2791
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 02, 2013, 07:44:02 pm »
Quote from: entropy on September 02, 2013, 10:25:40 am
I train alone, in a shitty outdoor court with low fence and no net. Have to chase the ball down a lot down the road if my shot is off (and i suck and the ball goes over a lot). Kind of hate that training. It's boring as shit and I don't seem to improve lol. But i'm going to try going to an indoor court 1-2x a week to practice properly. The other thing is, this isn't like in america, it's a fringe sport here, hard to find decent pickup games etc. If you play proper D people think it's weird. And then ppl who play recreationally don't really welcome newbies to their team because they have a team dynamic with friends and dont really want anyone. I've tried asking before. As it happens my actual team is in another city thousands of miles away and I only see them during contests. So i have to do all my preperation alone by myself. Not ideal.  But the level of competition in the tournament is high, we face really good teams with talented athletic players so it's an amazing chance and I really want us to win next year. So i'm going to train as hard as possible.

Where do you live? I know you've mentioned it before but I can't remember. I play in the South East suburbs of Melbourne and we're looking for players. We have a lovely yellow uniform too and a name that will please if you ever watched Dragon ball Z (I inherited both the name and the uniform). Anyway if you're in Melbourne and want a game let me know.

2792
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: September 01, 2013, 10:16:41 pm »
Quote from: entropy on September 01, 2013, 04:58:40 am
3. I'm way overfocusing on strength. I dont care about dunking, i'm not in it for the dunks or huge jumps. I wanted to be a good basketball player, which in my mind includes having excellent athleticism, true. But at this stage my skill deficit is much greater than my strength and power one. I need a lot more movement work specific to playing than I do with spending time in the gym. But. I don't like to give up on what I started, and i'm so close now to getting that minimal gold standard of 2xbw squats (FS and HBBS -- the latter for reps), that i will see it thru. I just need to slowly add back sports specific work so i'm ready for game time (~6-7 months from now).

4. As always i've neglected conditioning, it always seems to fall on the wayside. I know why it happens, sore legs don't help when you're focusing on pushing up squats. But whether I like it or not, it's just as important if not more important to have a big strong motor than raw power. I can play great defense. Or I can play great offense, but not both, because my conditioning didn't permit it last time.

IMO these are two great questions? When do you start incorporating these at the expense of what else you are trying to achieve? You could strength train endlessly without ever being ready to start conditioning or working skills let alone even playing basketball.

2793
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: September 01, 2013, 07:55:02 pm »
So I've been thinking a lot about where I'm going with all this training stuff. At the end of the day I've been taking 1-2 steps forward and 1-2 steps backwards for the last couple of years. This is all due to training consistency and injuries. I figure if I can put together some consistent training I will hit/exceed all my goals. So the plan is as follows:

- get injury free and try as hard as possible to stay that way through foam rolling/SMR/whatever
- two dedicated non-negotiable days in the gym per week. Day 1 Front Squat and Incline Bench/Day 2 Deadlift and OHP (each day I will do an additional assistance exercise for each lift)
- a third negotiable day in the middle which will be skill based and or maybe to finish with more conditioning stuff. I've been wanting to learn an olympic lift but also do more handstand work and levels and shit. This is the day to do this. Can even turn this day into bis and tris if I really want.
- accept the fact that I will need to do some focused conditioning/cardio/whatever work on a regular basis. As much as I hate it I'm always gassed at various stages of a basketball game. Really no point in having a decent vert if I can't use it 5 minutes into the game. I've always gotten around this cause I'm tall and will still out-rebound/block guys late into a game but really if my hops could hang around for a longer period I'd be a much more dangerous player. Realistically I think I can make good strength/vert gains whilst improving my work capacity/whatever.
- diet will be to facilitate strength gains without being too over the top. From now till Christmas I will use the time to build my strength back up. I then have a 4-6 week break from ball over Christmas which I will use to add some size.

And that's pretty much it. I've sucked pretty hard this year in terms of training. Have taken huge steps backwards but there's still a good 4 months left for me to make a good go of it.

2794
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: September 01, 2013, 07:43:23 pm »
31/08/13

Body was feeling pretty banged up but thought a lift would help ease the pain. Just can't seem to get it right these days. The back is still tender but it's now more in the hips.

Warm up
90/90 hip lift
ISO-lunge 30x each leg
rollovers into v-sit x 10
mountain climbers x 20
warrior 3 yoga pose 30s each leg

Circuit- 4x8xbar 60s rest
bent row
upright row
FS
OHP
BS
this felt ok.

Incline press
bar x 8
40 x 8
45 x 8, 8, 10

BSS (BW)
8, 8, 8

Curls
25 x 8, 8, 8

Push ups
15, 10, 5

Body felt really good upon finishing. Got the hips moving a bit better. Then went and sat in a car for 1.5hrs on way to a wedding. That did me no good in the back region. Wedding was great but could have dont without the car time.
 

2795
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Chris' training journal
« on: August 28, 2013, 08:01:30 pm »
2nd on the purple octopus. So easy to use and small enough to carry pretty much anywhere.

Mate the one hander off the glass looked sweet.

2796
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 27, 2013, 09:07:32 pm »
Didn't play ball on Monday night due to back. Our top scorer also didn't play and we were playing the top team (we're 2nd to them on ladder). We got smashed 61-16. Really felt for the guys who played but oh well.

27/08/2013

Back is still bugging me but I thought I'd better get into the gym to get it moving around and get some blood flowing.

Warm up
90/90 hip lift- 3x20s (not sure if these are really helping or not- don't think they're hurting so they'll stay for the moment)
Lunge ISO holds- 30s each leg
rollover into v-sit
yoga warrior 3 pose (don't really know how to describe this movement but osteo recommended)

Circuit- 3x8 with just bar
bent row
high pull
front squat
ohp
good mornings- hammies were super tight and sore so used the GM as a way to loosen and stretch. Worked really well.

Incline press
bar x 8
40 x 8, 8, 8
super conscious of back during these but they felt good. I used a slow tempo with a pause on the chest to reduce any bounce and chance of hurting the back more

BB Curls
3x12@20

Quick stretch and done. Back not feeling too bad and I'm hoping it'll get better as the week goes. I plan to do a few more sessions like this one to keep the body moving.


 

2797
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 27, 2013, 08:59:17 pm »
Quote from: LBSS on August 26, 2013, 11:21:16 am
Quote from: Coges on August 25, 2013, 08:39:23 pm
Started off all good with seeing the Osteo on Friday. She worked some of her magic and the body was feeling v good. She's been experimenting with different techniques and strangely enough she did some work on my liver meridian around the rib cabe and arm pit which released my extremely tight IT band. Mind = blown!


i <3 voodoo magic PT shit. it's the best.

Isn't it? She's been doing it a bit lately so I'll see what she has in store for me next time.

2798
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 25, 2013, 08:39:23 pm »
So I had a pretty awesome weekend  :pissed:

Started off all good with seeing the Osteo on Friday. She worked some of her magic and the body was feeling v good. She's been experimenting with different techniques and strangely enough she did some work on my liver meridian around the rib cabe and arm pit which released my extremely tight IT band. Mind = blown!

Normally I'd give the body a couple of days to settle but I felt so good I decided to get in the gym Sat morning and take advantage. Did an extended warm up, body felt nice and warm even though it was only about 10-12 degrees in the garage. Performed some warm up sets of deadlifts and did 3x5@100kg. Was super careful on these sets with my form and bracing and all the stuff you're meant to do. Then move on to do some front squats. I use just the bar and do I rep and have massive pain in the lower back. Now in the past I'd try and push it and work around this but with the way my body has been I called it a day. So fricken pissed.

One strange thing is that considering how cold it was I was wearing my full leg compression tights under my clothes. The only other time I have worn these whilst lifting I was squatting and had the same problem with my back. Didn't think about it at the time but when I sat down afterwards I remembered. Now I know that's a pretty tenuous link but quite the coincidence.

Considering my training (or lack thereof) lately I've come to the conclusion that I have pretty weak hams and upper back with tight hips. I don't think the lower back itself is the issue. I believe my lower back problems are all driven our of the hips and hamstrings. I do think any training I do from here has to be focused on getting myself healthy and up and running again at the expense of any real strength gains. I've had a lot of time to think about my training over the last couple of weeks and I have come to a realisation of sorts. I have always chased three numbers. A 200kg deadlift, 150kg squat and 100kg bench. This is under the assumption that something magical will happen once I reach these numbers. This has also been at the expense of conditioning work or dare I say it cardio. When I have been consistent I have done quite well with a deadlift of 160, squat of 140 and bench of 90. Really though for the amount of time I have been training it's pretty weak progress. Now do I really need to chase these numbers? Maybe. I'm sure I need to chase some numbers. Maybe these numbers, maybe not. Maybe these lifts and maybe others.

So what do I do from here? Really good question thanks for asking. I don't know yet but when I do I'll let you know too.

2799
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 25, 2013, 07:42:24 pm »
Quote from: entropy on August 23, 2013, 04:46:39 am
I forgot to mention, Coges, sorry you had to learn those things the hard way. I find a lot of the instruction available is deeply flawed. You get people telling you to 'arch your back' on squats. NO!! My (chinese) coach deplores such things. You don't want to arch your back. Rather you want your back neutral, and the muscles around the torso held rigid around the neutral spine. I just avoid western instruction now, i've had a terrible time with it all. I've had to unlearn 99.99% of everything I picked up from american origin. Pretty much everything i've learnt now resonates with the way coach teaches things. I can't do it his way yet, but eventually i'll get there.

Haha yeah I'm right in the middle my own learning experience (definitely the hard way) at the moment and these things are starting to become very apparent. Lifting used to be so much easier when I didn't know anywhere near as much.

2800
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 25, 2013, 07:39:39 pm »
Quote from: entropy on August 23, 2013, 02:30:12 am
Thing I am finding with those higher rep sets is you have the temptation to reach a milestone (say 8 reps) and you'll do the 7th, know that the 8th will be ugly/uncontrolled and have to make the choice whether to go ahead and get the PR or rack the bar. And of course you don't want to be a pussy, so you go ahead and do the rep, even with shit form. And that way you can write PR on your log, but is it the right thing? I would think not. Better to keep a rep in the tank, and do it safely and perfectly. But much harder to make that choice when the seductive prospect of a PR lingers. If i was training someone else, I would tell them to do perfect reps only and rack the bar if you know the next rep won't be technically correct. But i can't follow my own advice because i'm so focused on getting to my milestone goal.

Never a truer statement said regarding the squat.

2801
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 23, 2013, 01:44:40 am »
Quote from: entropy on August 23, 2013, 12:50:19 am
Feeling disillusioned with backsquat. It's clearly the superior exercise for all those wonderful reasons that are well known. But on the downside, i'm finding it a terrible exercise for my lower back. It puts so much torque on my LB that I can barely walk properly most days. I have to struggle getting up from a chair. It hobbles me up. Question is, is it because the backsquat is too hard on my back. Or is my back too weak to backsquat? Or maybe I'm backsquatting too heavy too often. I dont understand what's going on. The lower back discomfort I have is asymmetric, it occurs on the left side only.

If I make all my PRs today then I might consider doing another week. Otherwise, i'll start cutting on monday!

Maybe it's not the actual back squat itself but rather the manner in which you do it? Or, you may have some issues with the left or right side of your body (tighness, weakness, etc) that place more stress there when back squatting. I know the BS has hurt my lower back before but I learned this was due to an excessive arch (anterior tilt) and also knee and ankle issues on one side of my body. If you are feeling the pain (force) in your lower back then there's obviously something breaking down in the chain.

Then again, maybe it's just not for you. Have you noticed the same thing when you have squatted with a wider or more narrow stance or different bar position?

2802
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 18, 2013, 07:58:34 pm »
Saw the osteo on Friday. As expected the body was pretty bad. She gave it a good working over and although some progress was made my left hip/lower back area was really stubborn. Back again this Friday for more treatment. Felt pretty sore afterwards and the mid back again is causing me issues. Overall I think this is probably the worst condition I've been in for a few years without any specific incident. Good though that I don't have a game this week so into the gym a few times to try and do what I can to sort it out.

2803
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 14, 2013, 06:45:34 pm »
14/08/13

Finally got back in the gym. Was going to wait till after I'd seen my osteo but thought I'd get in there and do something. Have been working through my goals/lack thereof and putting together a bit of a plan for myself too. Don't have it fully sorted but feel like I'm getting back on track. I have basically revised my whole training plan although the end result of my actual training doesn't look that different. Funny that.

Warm up- will be spending some decent time in this zone going forward
90/90 hip lift
Lunge iso hold- L-60s, R-40s (only had 30s rest between sets- will reverse order next time and see if R is weaker or it is the lack of rest)
Push up iso hold- 30s (want to build to 60s here)
rollover into v-sit x 10
mountain climbers x 10
pec and lat stretches
shoulder dislocations x 10
imitation snatch complex- am teaching myself the snatch and will be including this in all warm ups. Started with the bar when I should have started with a brookstick (will do that next time) as the back felt very susceptible on overhead squats
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUL_mYxtHXY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUL_mYxtHXY</a>
(forgot to add hip flexor stretches in)

Squat
bar x 8
60 x 8
80 x 6, 6, 6

Incline Bench
bar x 8
40 x 8
60 x 6, 6, 6

Snatch Grip Deadlift
60 x 8, 8

Notes:
Warm up- felt good and ready to go post warm up. The snatch complex really had me breathing hard at the end and I know I got 75% of the technique wrong too.

Squat
The goal here is 8 reps and to build some work capacity so not taking as much rest between sets. I have adpoted a stance of just outside shoulder width with feet as straight as possible and a focus on really pushing out the knees. Legs weren't too bad but really felt the pressure and strain on the mid-lower back after 4 reps in each set. Fingers crossed this will be resolved once the pelvis issue is sorted.

Bench
I lose my strength here the quickest of any other lift. Felt ok without being stellar.

Snatch Grip DL
Am going to incorporate these for higher reps at a lower load and build from there. The grip will be the main issue here. Form was pretty good mobility of getting into position didn't seem to be an issue. Need to work on locking these out properly without  hunching a bit.

Overall- Not having done any training in 2 weeks I knew I would struggle. This coupled with an average of 4-5 hours of sleep a night (1 year old daughter) for the past few months really doesn't help things. All in all though good to get a nice light session to come back in on. Will add to that over the coming weeks and get some consistency going.

2804
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« on: August 14, 2013, 06:21:42 pm »
Ball game on Monday. We won by 9 in the end but it was a tough one. We got away early and were up by 15 but they reeled us in to around 4 points late. The fouls commenced trying to stop the clock and close the gap and thats where we got it back out to 9. I had 11 points but should have had in the 20s. I'm normally an ~85-90% free throw shooter. I hit 1 from 6 including an air ball. No idea what was going on there. Also got absolutely raped in the key on the offensive end and with only 1 ref on the night they didn't call much. My arms look like I've been cutting myself it's ridiculous.
Again didn't attempt any dunks. Feel like my vert is down a fair bit on normal but was still effective on the rebounds which probably says more about my opponents than it does about me. I seem to be able to out rebound most guys in the league even if I'm missing out on a few inches here and there.

Good news is though I've booked in to see my Osteo on Friday. Will probably be the first of a few visits but am hanging to get this problem sorted out. Legs were rubbish the day after playing again and the left lat (where it inserts at the base of the ribs) is killing me. 

2805
Progress Journals & Experimental Routines / Re: chasing athleticism
« on: August 11, 2013, 08:06:40 pm »
Quote from: entropy on August 10, 2013, 09:14:30 am
Is it small? Look at the pic! And it's not just the difference in foot width, it's what it means for the lift. Like right now if I do a BW squat, narrow stance and auch knees, dont feel it in the muscles. SW stance, and boom, instantly quads feel it. It solves a whole host of probs ive had where I don't come out upright from the bottom position. I overlooked it til now because coach told me and also because in the past where my power rack was situation I couldn't take a video from the appropriate angle which would have shown it to be a wrong stance. But so many things are now starting to make sense. I had bigger thighs last summer because then I was doing normal stance. I added 30kg to my squats since then and yet my quads are smaller .. didn't make sense. And after re-starting backsquat after my injury i favoured a wider stance to keep my hips healthy, well what do you know, suddenly i was getting epic quad soreness all the time. Which I never had from a shitload of front squatting. All these things are explained by stance.

Mate, I have just gone through a very similar process as you. I didn't have the benefit of a coach but have been struggling with squat form for ages and have kept injuring myself. Somewhere along the line I too thought it better for a more narrow stance even after experimenting with all ranges. Biggest clue for me (after picking up Starrett's book) was feet just outside shoulder width with feet as straight as possible which helps force the knees out. I'm still working through an injury but can't wait to get back in and cement the new form for future gains.

Having said all that I think it's hugely important as Rix said, to not throw the baby out with the bathwater. So you weren't training optimally. Who is? Make your adjustments now and move on before the next adjustment comes but don't forget how you have trained and how much you have benefitted so far. From what I can see you've made incredible progress (mostly while mad cutting too).

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