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Performance Area => Program Review => Topic started by: OJ on October 02, 2010, 09:59:32 pm

Title: Jump Manual
Post by: OJ on October 02, 2010, 09:59:32 pm
Hey guys, I just want to get a review of the Jump Manual on this site because I am hearing that it is one of the best programs out there. I was wondering if anyone has a review for it. Here's the site http://jumpmanual.com/ and Jacob Hiller's youtube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/freejumptraining. He looks like an athlete and I have never heard anyone bash him, ever, so I am assuming he is a professional trainer who gets the job done. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: zgin on October 03, 2010, 07:23:58 am
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: nba8340 on October 03, 2010, 10:25:37 pm
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LBSS on October 04, 2010, 09:36:44 am
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/watchdrama8jm.gif)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Joe on October 04, 2010, 12:27:37 pm
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/xose/emoticons/facepalm.gif)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: zgin on October 04, 2010, 02:34:50 pm
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate

he sucks ass
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JackW on October 04, 2010, 07:54:08 pm
Jacob is actually a really nice person and quite knowledgable about Jump Training. He spends a lot of time helping his customers and making sure they get results. If you were to follow his program I am sure you would do ok.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LBSS on October 04, 2010, 08:38:24 pm
Jacob is actually a really nice person and quite knowledgable about Jump Training. He spends a lot of time helping his customers and making sure they get results. If you were to follow his program I am sure you would do ok.

Zgin, care to offer a counterpoint?
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: zgin on October 04, 2010, 08:49:44 pm
Jacob is actually a really nice person and quite knowledgable about Jump Training. He spends a lot of time helping his customers and making sure they get results. If you were to follow his program I am sure you would do ok.

Zgin, care to offer a counterpoint?

nope. i dont disagree with jack.   
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LBSS on October 04, 2010, 11:08:15 pm
Jacob is actually a really nice person and quite knowledgable about Jump Training. He spends a lot of time helping his customers and making sure they get results. If you were to follow his program I am sure you would do ok.

Zgin, care to offer a counterpoint?

nope. i dont disagree with jack.   

Aw, crap.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 05, 2010, 02:56:27 am
Jacob is actually a really nice person and quite knowledgable about Jump Training. He spends a lot of time helping his customers and making sure they get results. If you were to follow his program I am sure you would do ok.

I agree. You can watch his one-leg jumping technique video, it's on youtube. It's pretty good stuff and it's correct stuff.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: vag on October 05, 2010, 04:25:10 am
Yup , ive followed his youtube vids and read some articles on his site in the past.
He seems to know his stuff and the training principles are correct: Heavy lifting to build up strength , plyos + explosive lifting to transfer it to vert.
What bothers me is that his site is over-marketed , full of "buy me" links and testimonials , its getting a bit ridiculous. But he's gotta make a living , im not the one to judge how he does that.
All in all , i have not read his program but i think he is legit and his program works.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 06, 2010, 10:50:41 pm
millionaire son!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMm5eOaG-EQ
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: TheSituation on October 07, 2010, 01:39:57 am
millionaire son!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMm5eOaG-EQ

(http://i46.tinypic.com/21dg65k.jpg)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 07, 2010, 01:10:26 pm
WTF indeed... :o

Damn, I need to write an English program and sell it...
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 07, 2010, 05:28:17 pm
 ....and spam the fuck out the comments sections of every tfb/dunk vid on youtube, read over all the good posts on all the reputable sites and make webcam vids immediately afterwards, distributing the info like you thought of it.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 07, 2010, 05:44:31 pm
....and spam the fuck out the comments sections of every tfb/dunk vid on youtube, read over all the good posts on all the reputable sites and make webcam vids immediately afterwards, distributing the info like you thought of it.

i don't mind hiller that much, seems mostly like he puts out some good info (from what i've seen on his vids), but he's always pissed me off with the spamming shit.. i sort through dunk/vert videos every few days, and usually i have to skip over 20 or so of his spam videos for jump manual every time.. lately it's been less, probably doesn't need to do that as much anymore.

and ya i've noticed he does take people's writings/advice and pass it off as his own, he did that with adam linkauger (can't ever spell that shit), that was pretty dirty..

so ya, he's got a good side and a bad side, don't know whether he is neutral or slightly more towards bad side, i kind of lean towards the latter, i dno.. i'd have to see jump manual one day to see what he's about, i know zgin has always told me how much he thought it was such trash etc, a few other people told me that too, but then i've also seen some legit positive feedback..

peace
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 07, 2010, 06:05:20 pm
Yep, that and trying to spam the site with hidden links, and all the dumb comments on peoples dunk videos, like this one,

 
"2 months ago TeamFlightBrothers great video, reminds me of me in college - ha. I'm 5 7 and I am able to windmill dunk. I used the famous training program that pro players including Kobe Ray Allen and Areans used.? If you want more info about the program, check out - "50inch vertical (dot) com"

TFB::Dunks:: Guess who's Back ... 5'9" T-DUB!!Sprite Dunk Contest ewwbrxgggwhpq aprczeowempdwkflzf #TeamFlightBrothers"

This is just one of about 10,000 but you get the drift, spammy ass comments with catchy link name directed at gulliable youth.  
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 07, 2010, 06:16:01 pm
Yep, that and trying to spam the site with hidden links, and all the dumb comments on peoples dunk videos, like this one,

 
"2 months ago TeamFlightBrothers great video, reminds me of me in college - ha. I'm 5 7 and I am able to windmill dunk. I used the famous training program that pro players including Kobe Ray Allen and Areans used.? If you want more info about the program, check out - "50inch vertical (dot) com"

TFB::Dunks:: Guess who's Back ... 5'9" T-DUB!!Sprite Dunk Contest ewwbrxgggwhpq aprczeowempdwkflzf #TeamFlightBrothers"

This is just one of about 10,000 but you get the drift, spammy ass comments with catchy link name directed at gulliable youth.  

i've seen those 50 inch vertical dot com links everywhere, never clicked them, didn't know it was him...

ya that shit is so annoying..
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JackW on October 07, 2010, 07:02:32 pm
Jacob's wife is totally hot. I am going to have to hit him on facebook about this.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 07, 2010, 07:58:19 pm
Jacob's wife is totally hot. I am going to have to hit him on facebook about this.

she's hot.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 07, 2010, 08:07:42 pm
LOL WTF omg omg omg. hilarious.. (i think its shopped though)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs250.snc4/39860_769330079369_17819119_41089468_3304418_n.jpg)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 07, 2010, 08:10:20 pm
watch out girl, there's someone coming 4u.

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-ash1/v189/54/96/17819119/n17819119_34866893_308.jpg)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 03:05:38 am
Damn, is this Twin Peaks?

I never knew 50 inches.com was his site...
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: vag on October 08, 2010, 05:05:47 am
Yep, that and trying to spam the site with hidden links, and all the dumb comments on peoples dunk videos, like this one,

 
"2 months ago TeamFlightBrothers great video, reminds me of me in college - ha. I'm 5 7 and I am able to windmill dunk. I used the famous training program that pro players including Kobe Ray Allen and Areans used.? If you want more info about the program, check out - "50inch vertical (dot) com"

TFB::Dunks:: Guess who's Back ... 5'9" T-DUB!!Sprite Dunk Contest ewwbrxgggwhpq aprczeowempdwkflzf #TeamFlightBrothers"

This is just one of about 10,000 but you get the drift, spammy ass comments with catchy link name directed at gulliable youth.  

i've seen those 50 inch vertical dot com links everywhere, never clicked them, didn't know it was him...

ya that shit is so annoying..

Damnnn , that was him?
Never clicked on those messages to see who it is , i should have! Those were sooooo annoying!
Also the spam youtube testimonials when you search for "dunk" , GRRRGNMNFDS!@#%^%$#!@!

Ill also second what everyone says about his stuff having "stolen" taste , like he is reproducting other people's stuff.
Still , thats better than have you do 500 BW jump squats or "core + calve raises + stretching". I prefer "stolen" legit advice than original major BS.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 05:53:07 am
Hey, what about StretchExpert?
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 08, 2010, 06:02:56 am
Hey, what about StretchExpert?

lol..

i like stretchexpert, as a person.. i think he's genuine and really cares, but he's just not knowledgeable on proper training methods, i mean his basic recommendation for vert is some really weak exercises and AIS stretching.. he has lots of nice 'motivational videos' on how to approach training, thought process, and random life shizz.. which is good for the youngins who watch his vids.

i still watch most of his videos :F

peace
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 07:00:59 am
I definitely prefer porn over StretchExpert. He comes second. I mean, he comes after me.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JackW on October 08, 2010, 07:04:05 am
While I can't comment on everything Jacob has written I think it is hard to criticize the guy for trying to explain to people what the right way to train is and then suggesting that he shouldn't because he has allegedly stolen this information.

For example I know one of the things Jacob was accused of stealing was A-Links concept of the penultimate step (or the idea for using it in an article anyway), however the fact is that Adam didn't invent the penultimate step concept, it has been used by T&F coaches for years.

The same applies to KellyB claiming in his recent article that he introduced the concept of deficit testing. Seriously I nearly fell of my chair laughing when i read that. This was one of the first and most obvious things I was taught to do when I started training people (in the 90's). I am guessing it is a concept that has been around for years as well.

These aren't things that other guys have dibs on, this is common stuff. Maybe if Jacob came along and said he popularized the use of bands and the Russian conjugate system in powerlifting circles then maybe I could see a certain Lou Simmons getting a bit miffed, but just writing information about a topic that someone has already previously written about but is generally well known is not stealing.

Also, I would not be surprised to find a lot of those spam comments are not from Jacob but from one of his affiliates. If you saw in that video he is making a gobsmacking 500-1000 sales per month. That is mostly from Affiliates (I just checked Clickbank - 70% of sales come from affiliates. Compare that to Vertical Mastery - 2% Which is why I will be happy to make 500 in a year ha ha) Affiliates are more likely to use spammy techniques because they don't care about your reputation.

Out of interest I just checked out the other jump programs for affiliate activity

Jump Manual - 70%
Luke Lowery - 21%
VertFreak/Vert Mastery/VJB all well under 7%

So the top 2 most popular programs with affiliates are 2 programs I would put behind the next 3 listed in terms of programming (obviously Lowery WAY behind, Jump Manual is not bad, just not as much customisation which Jacob once told me he felt was over rated, which for beginners is reasonably true).

So Why do affiliates love Jacob and Lowery so much? Recurring commissions. Those 2 both offer the recurring commission upsell (in Lowery's case I am not sure it is actually offered though, I think you just get stung). There is a lesson in internet marketing for you.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 07:31:48 am
  Of course Adam didnt invent the penultimate step, Adam made a video of him explaining it step by step, his way, (which by the way is not the same amongst different track and field jump coaches), and using hand claps as a cadence guide.  This dude comes along a short while later, AND MAKES THE EXACT SAME FUCKING VIDEO, USING THE EXACT SAME HAND CLAPS.  Adam has a very extensive background in track and field, Jacob has a vertical jump program, Adam was explaining the penultimate step the way it was taught to him, by his coaches, which as I said before is not the same as other coaches often have different methods of teaching it, and it got copied, fed back out by Jacob as if it were his info.   I mean if youre going to use someone elses info, just fucking give credit in the video.  He of course wouldnt do that as it would divert attention away from his program. 
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JackW on October 08, 2010, 07:34:34 am
Fair enough. I stand corrected. If it is a blatant rip off, well that is another story entirely.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 07:38:42 am
You're going to say I'm stupid or naive, but what if it's a coincidence? I mean, it could be, who knows? From 6 billion people in this world, it could be that two of them create similar videos at similar times...

I don't think it really matters to be honest. We all copy each others up in a way or another. I mean, people say to squat but they have copied that idea from someone, right? "Hey, this guy says squatting is great, I recommend you squat too!" Is that a "copyright infringement"? I don't want to be Jacob H's advocate, but it's just the way I currently see the things.

Even more, there's nobody forcing you to buy a product. I mean, even in Puke's case... some people just deserve to be scammed I guess. But in Jacob's situation, the quality of the info is pretty good, it doesn't matter where it comes from because you can't prove it comes from Adam or whoever, what is important is if the product quality is good or not I suppose.

I mean, what, you're going to sue everybody because they copied Verkhoshansky's concepts?

I'm saying all this because I don't remember Jacob saying "hey, this is my invented method, copyrighted". If that would be the case, then yeah, I'm with you.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 07:47:53 am
 This is very similar to writing an article on your way of teaching or doing something, coming back to another website, and seeing someone has re posted your article with them as the author.  There is no law against it as there is no copyright on it, but chicken shit is chicken shit.  All you have to do is be humble enough to say, hey, this guy had a nice video or article from bla bla bla.... check it out. 
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 08:06:44 am
Ill give you an example Raptor, Andrew worked his ass off breaking down the msem method from Verkoshansky, its not his idea, but its his way of explaining it and laying it out.  If someone posted a similar article on it, expaining it the exact same manner he did, using the exact same anecdotes, etc.,  not giving him credit for his work and his method of explanation, that would be chicken shit too.    It doesnt have to be illegal to be chicken shit.  And your idea of "what if two people had the same idea .... blah" that would be fine if it were just the penultimate step in question, the problem is one person copies the others way of teaching it, which I said before, is very unique in each individual track coach.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JackW on October 08, 2010, 08:12:36 am
I hear what you are saying Lance but can you explain exactly what you mean by Link working his ass off?  ;D I mean when I write an article about a topic I am not that familiar with I usually have read something in one of my books, found it interesting, then I do a bit of research to find out what else has been written about it to make sure I understand the concept, then I sit down and write it up in my own way.

That isn't really working my ass off though.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 08:21:39 am
 I mean all the years, blood, sweat, and tears he put into perfect his high jump technique and becoming an ELITE ATHLETE.  He is putting his "diamonds" down for people so to speak, what info he has accumulated throughout his athletic career.  That cant be compared to any amount of research you can ever do.  Trial and error, different coaches methodics, finding out what HE BELIEVES is the best method to teach that part of the jump, thats what I mean by working his ass off.  

Here is a great example of another coach teaching the penultimate step, very different teaching method, just like almost every track coach has.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eW0qMfGzb0
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 08:24:54 am
I agree with that, but you can't know for sure that he really "learned it" from Linkenauger. Maybe he didn't, who knows?

One article is a complex thing... a penultimate step technique is a basic thing. It's like saying "you need to squat to get stronger". Millions of people say this, that doesn't mean (or maybe it does) they copy each other in a negative way.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 08:29:25 am
I agree with that, but you can't know for sure that he really "learned it" from Linkenauger. Maybe he didn't, who knows?

One article is a complex thing... a penultimate step technique is a basic thing. It's like saying "you need to squat to get stronger". Millions of people say this, that doesn't mean (or maybe it does) they copy each other in a negative way.

The penultimate step and THE WAY IT IS FUCKING PERFORMED AND TAUGHT IS VERY UNIQUE, people who are involved in track and field know this already.  Watch Tom Tellez video, that is his method of teaching, almost every good track coach is going to have their own way of doing this, this is not hard to understand.  The step in itself is often very different, European track coaches teach a different penultimate altogether, most of them with very different teaching methods.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 08:38:49 am
I know the Tellez movie. The thing is, what's so unique about the teaching in Adam's case? I mean, just because Jacob clapped his hands you can say he stole the teaching method? Or are there other things in common?

It just doesn't stand, in my book at least, to accuse someone with so little "evidence".
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on October 08, 2010, 08:55:18 am
  There are alot of things in that video that show clear cut evidence that he got the info directly from Adam.  One being him using nba athletes as references who are in fact very poor examples of what he thinks he is saying, that should cue you in on his extensive knowledge of what he is talking about.  The cadence is so blatant it is laughable, I have seen at least 5 different top track and field coaches teaching the step and never seen that once, not once.  That is 100 percent Adam using a method that HIS coach used, that he believes worked best for him.  Wether or not it is UNIVERSALLY the best method and way to do it is debatable, but it is very unique to HIM and his coach.  He only covered the exact same things Adam covered, which as you can see by Toms video, there are several other aspects that are usually taught, and this just illustrates the copying even more.  I dont care if you "agree" or not Raptor, if you dont see that for what it is it doesnt matter to me, it is what it is.

 So you believe Jacob 1. randomly had access to the exact same coach adam had, and learned the step the exact same way , with the exact same step.  2. randomly posted his video shortly after adams got alot of attention. 3. has nothing to do with track and field on any significant level, but has his own method of teaching the penultimate step (if you watch the video and have a brain you can see when he is not looking at his notes that he has no idea what he is talking about).   
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on October 08, 2010, 09:44:55 am
Well I don't "believe" anything, I merely said that there are several possibilities. I mean, whatever, I don't give a shit. He's a millionaire and I'm not :D
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 08, 2010, 04:09:40 pm
While I can't comment on everything Jacob has written I think it is hard to criticize the guy for trying to explain to people what the right way to train is and then suggesting that he shouldn't because he has allegedly stolen this information.

For example I know one of the things Jacob was accused of stealing was A-Links concept of the penultimate step (or the idea for using it in an article anyway), however the fact is that Adam didn't invent the penultimate step concept, it has been used by T&F coaches for years.

The same applies to KellyB claiming in his recent article that he introduced the concept of deficit testing. Seriously I nearly fell of my chair laughing when i read that. This was one of the first and most obvious things I was taught to do when I started training people (in the 90's). I am guessing it is a concept that has been around for years as well.

These aren't things that other guys have dibs on, this is common stuff. Maybe if Jacob came along and said he popularized the use of bands and the Russian conjugate system in powerlifting circles then maybe I could see a certain Lou Simmons getting a bit miffed, but just writing information about a topic that someone has already previously written about but is generally well known is not stealing.

Also, I would not be surprised to find a lot of those spam comments are not from Jacob but from one of his affiliates. If you saw in that video he is making a gobsmacking 500-1000 sales per month. That is mostly from Affiliates (I just checked Clickbank - 70% of sales come from affiliates. Compare that to Vertical Mastery - 2% Which is why I will be happy to make 500 in a year ha ha) Affiliates are more likely to use spammy techniques because they don't care about your reputation.

Out of interest I just checked out the other jump programs for affiliate activity

Jump Manual - 70%
Luke Lowery - 21%
VertFreak/Vert Mastery/VJB all well under 7%

So the top 2 most popular programs with affiliates are 2 programs I would put behind the next 3 listed in terms of programming (obviously Lowery WAY behind, Jump Manual is not bad, just not as much customisation which Jacob once told me he felt was over rated, which for beginners is reasonably true).

So Why do affiliates love Jacob and Lowery so much? Recurring commissions. Those 2 both offer the recurring commission upsell (in Lowery's case I am not sure it is actually offered though, I think you just get stung). There is a lesson in internet marketing for you.

ya that's why i really don't claim to have invented anything, except for that lame 'darqsquat' shit on youtube and possibly the visual reactive drills, but even the visual reactive drills were influenced.

but, the way hiller did that pen-ult vid, as lance described below, is alot different than just putting out common information.. he definitely got most of that info from a-link's vids, then made his vid right after..

in the end, no one really deserves credit for anything at this point, because all credit can be given to those who came before us many yeaaars ago.. the only credit that can be given is how that info is programmed into training, that itself can be very unique.. what's funny is, all of these ph.d's/guru coaches are still looking for that next gem they can call their own, that itself brings down s&c because honestly those gems are far and few between, instead you get 99% junk discoveries which dilute the simple & solid training info of the past.

i credit kellyb for his caffeine ideas, verkhoshansky for pretty much everything (msem, stim, shock, frequency, half squat, bounding, overspeed, general strength, peaking, supermethods ideology), jay schroeder for his ideas on frequency (& some ADA/plyo exercises), inno sport for some of it's ideas on areg (& some exercises, REA squat etc), alexV & WGF (korfist/fichter) for their corrective work/core work, coolcolj for his butt fungus & his backing of 'walking' for recovery/fat loss.. dno if i left anything out but that is my 'base' right now.

peace!
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on October 08, 2010, 04:15:33 pm
i agree with lance 100%, jacob hiller plagiarized..

oooh, that's the word we've been looking for.. plagiarized.. of course you can recite information, but you can't utilize that information and pass it off as your own, a citation must be given :D

PLAGIARIZED.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:24:47 am
Thought I'd stick my head in here... we'll see if it remains attached to my neck.

Just thought I'd clarify... since we're talking about me.

1. Adarq - That photo ofme is not shopped but that one of the nicest comments I've received.

2. Jack - Thanks for your kind words even if we disagree on  some points I appreciate the your openness, you've always been fair to me.  I really appreciate you defending me man... really.


3. I'm constantly trying to get affiliates not to do crazy stuff.  It's hard to keep it under raps but if there is someone who is particularly annoying let me know, I can have the "authorities" contact them or even cut them off.  I don't like the spam, it does me no good... sure maybe a couple sales, but it much worse for reputation etc... not a fan.

4. Adam L. Is awesome, and a good friend of mine.  But as far as I know I posted videos about form before anyone I know did.  I learned that stuff in high school and college track and field.  Not taking away from Adam, his stuff is great, and he is a very experienced high jumper.. but I definitely didn't steal it form him. 

Regardless as jack is mentioning we all learned stuff from someone... many of the jumping form concepts I have, I came up with alone, but many others were taught to me by someone along the way.

Penultimate step for basketball or any sport is different animal then track and field... I was a jumper in high school and college.  That's another conversation though.

On a last thought... we do one one one and group coaching sessions multiple times a week for personal programming.  It's a huge part of our system... the one one one interaction.

While we might disagree on some issues I think we can understand what those points are... and if I'm wrong... I hope to have the guts to admit it... sure better then persevering in error.

In the end I'm just a guy like you guys... I live training, am obsessed with it, and love making my living sharing it.

I come up with a lot (IMHO ;) of my own stuff, and I also like to read and learn from everyone else in the industry...

If  anyone is interested I have a free ebook about jumping form, a lot of my own ideas, and now I'm starting to see them come out in other places.. I really don't care though.. unless I'm accused of stealing what is my original work (which has also happened).




Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:51:49 am
Adarq... just read more...

I don't recollect ever seeing Adam's video of him "clapping" but I will tell you that EVERY track and field coach I have ever worked with uses clapping to train the cadence of the approach.

When I crated my program I had NEVER heard of Adam Linkenauger.  When I put it online I don't think Vert Freak was even out...  In fact I didn't know much about the online world at all.
 

I was also accused of ripping off some other VJ program that was released about a full year after mine.

If anyone deserves credit it would be my high school track and College track coachs, whose names I can't even remember (he was fired mid season... Coach Barnes and Coach Phelps...  But since those days (where I wasn't even that good) I have come up with a ton of my own information...

Some ideas I came up with, I even realized down the line that someone else thought of the same thing, and called it a different name, and in those cases I usually go back and say.. this is what I've called it.. but it's well known as ___ .

Again, I'm not taking anything away from Adam L., he's a friend of mine, and we communicate every now and then.

Also, as for the 50inchvertical site... it's some affiliates.  If these guys are spamming let me know I can report them and have them warned.  It's not good for me.  Jack W. probably gets the same thing sometimes.

I have 4 people posing as me on Facebook and Twitter... and I'm working on getting them shut down.  One dude even has some weird pic (not me) and claims it's me.. lol.

Listen, I'm not trying to be a hater here... I respect this site, and I respect that Adarq and others are doing some innovative stuff, not to mention serious dedication and work ethic...  props for that.

I'd just prefer to be represented fair.

If you disagree with my vids, or think I got something wrong, I'd love to know about it... I can always learn something. 

If we disagree, oh well, happens all the time.

There are some points of training that I think I am completely alone on... oh well... it makes sense to me, and until it doesn't make sense or stops working - I'lll stick to it.... but I'm open.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 08:56:19 am
I'm trying to find A Link's video anyways to check it out... I want to see this hand clapping!

Link me?

Also Raptor thanks for the kind words man.

I don't know you but I think I follow your channel on youtube, and I've seen you on other forums.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on December 16, 2010, 09:09:17 am
Well I stand by what I said...

Anyway, yeah I'm on The Vertical Summit as well, the guy from Romania. You said some time ago you went through my country years back.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 16, 2010, 09:28:08 am
LanceSTS said:

" [Jacob] 3. has nothing to do with track and field on any significant level, but has his own method of teaching the penultimate step (if you watch the video and have a brain you can see when he is not looking at his notes that he has no idea what he is talking about).   :

1. I was a jumper in high school and recruited to college and competed at state, and conference levels.

More importantly...

2. I have trained Olympic high jumpers, long, and triple jumpers including the Nation record holder of India for High Jump and Triple Jump. I also trained their coaching staff per invitation at Sports Authority of India.  The picture... that you said I "shopped" is me after training the Olympic and Powerlifting teams on how to use chains and bands as well as setting up a training to maximize explosive ability.  This was all in person and I have testimonials and pictures with me training and teaching their Olympic development staff.



3. Dude.. to just come out and say I "plagiarized" is pretty rough... could you show me the video you think I used so I could see where you are coming from?

Again I'm just trying to represent myself here...


Adarq -

"he is not looking at his notes"  -   ?????

I've taught this very technique in person 1000 times to countless athletes in several sports... I don't need notes for it... I would if I didn't know it off the top of my head.

Anyways, I'm not trying to start a fight, but I just want to be represented fairly bro.


I'm honestly just baffled at how certain "LanceSTS" that I have even seen Adam's video... Please link me, I tried to find it but can't.

I GUARANTEE I can trace back me teaching this concept before mine or Links video EVER came out.  It was in the original Jump Manual, and I taught it before I even put my program online.

Adam L.  I'm sure did not plagiarize me (although I haven't seen all his stuff on this I don't think) and he's a cool fella ... but SEVERAL people have AND I have later been accused of copying my own copycats!  Jumping for for basketball, and track is something I have been doing since highschool, in 1998.

I already see people posting material that is in my jumping form ebook... did they come up with it separately from me?  Not sure... all I now is several bits of it I have never seen ANYWHERE else - and now bits are starting to pop up.

In the end I don't fret it... we all build upon the body of knowledge and are "standing on the shoulders of giants" so to speak.  When people copy my stuff it's a compliment, and I would appreciate a shout out... but there are at least 2 programs out there that are amazingly similar to mine and came out later.  And dozens of articles I have written I have seen verbatim or paraphrased by others.

Think of how Louie, or Verk. must feel.

I'm just sayin...


Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 17, 2010, 06:07:14 pm
hey man, ya if you didn't "take that info from adam linkenauger's video" then I truly apologize.


here's Adam's vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU0j6utv_10


Here's your vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czwYS6feqEQ


Your vid came out before adam's above, but their was another video adam put out long ago on the same stuff. You could have for sure learned all of this on your own, or under the instruction of your track & field coaches, so saying you "definitely" stole that info is dumb on my part (i think i said that not sure). I forget the timeline of events, lance/a-link know about this "drama" better than I do, as I really didn't follow it.

peace
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 17, 2010, 06:09:53 pm
LanceSTS said:

" [Jacob] 3. has nothing to do with track and field on any significant level, but has his own method of teaching the penultimate step (if you watch the video and have a brain you can see when he is not looking at his notes that he has no idea what he is talking about).   :

1. I was a jumper in high school and recruited to college and competed at state, and conference levels.

More importantly...

2. I have trained Olympic high jumpers, long, and triple jumpers including the Nation record holder of India for High Jump and Triple Jump. I also trained their coaching staff per invitation at Sports Authority of India.  The picture... that you said I "shopped" is me after training the Olympic and Powerlifting teams on how to use chains and bands as well as setting up a training to maximize explosive ability.  This was all in person and I have testimonials and pictures with me training and teaching their Olympic development staff.

lol i was kidding, didn't know if it was shopped or not, it just has a shopped feel with a big white dude in between two indian dudes.

lookin` big.




Quote
3. Dude.. to just come out and say I "plagiarized" is pretty rough... could you show me the video you think I used so I could see where you are coming from?

Again I'm just trying to represent myself here...


Adarq -

"he is not looking at his notes"  -   ?????

I've taught this very technique in person 1000 times to countless athletes in several sports... I don't need notes for it... I would if I didn't know it off the top of my head.

Anyways, I'm not trying to start a fight, but I just want to be represented fairly bro.


I'm honestly just baffled at how certain "LanceSTS" that I have even seen Adam's video... Please link me, I tried to find it but can't.

I GUARANTEE I can trace back me teaching this concept before mine or Links video EVER came out.  It was in the original Jump Manual, and I taught it before I even put my program online.

Adam L.  I'm sure did not plagiarize me (although I haven't seen all his stuff on this I don't think) and he's a cool fella ... but SEVERAL people have AND I have later been accused of copying my own copycats!  Jumping for for basketball, and track is something I have been doing since highschool, in 1998.

I already see people posting material that is in my jumping form ebook... did they come up with it separately from me?  Not sure... all I now is several bits of it I have never seen ANYWHERE else - and now bits are starting to pop up.

In the end I don't fret it... we all build upon the body of knowledge and are "standing on the shoulders of giants" so to speak.  When people copy my stuff it's a compliment, and I would appreciate a shout out... but there are at least 2 programs out there that are amazingly similar to mine and came out later.  And dozens of articles I have written I have seen verbatim or paraphrased by others.

Think of how Louie, or Verk. must feel.

I'm just sayin...



Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 18, 2010, 02:04:35 pm
Adarq - Never seen this video...

Also...

His video is dated: May 06, 2010

My first video on this was: October 07, 2008

My second video more about 1 foot jumping was: August 11, 2009

My videos on the subject were posted considerable before this one came out...

Regardless, I have seen this video, and I think we teach it our own way anyways.


I appreciate your apology.

Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on December 19, 2010, 06:59:10 pm
 I just got back in town so I didnt see this till today.

  Jacob, that video is not the one in question, adam has a video of him vlogging where he shows his particular way of teaching that step that came out before your video is.  I dont know FOR SURE that you copied it, you could have had a coach in high school who taught it EXACTLY the same way as his coach taught him, im not the judge on that one.  What i can tell you is that there are MANY different ways of teaching the penultimate step in track and field, here is one with Tom tellez, you saying that ALL coaches use the claps as a metronome in the way adam did is funny as hell to me man, I have worked with many many many track and field jumpers throughout my career and i have never seen it taught EXACTLY that way once.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eW0qMfGzb0

Either way I dont care, adam can come on here and paste the vid that in question if he wants, it was basically the same exact video you have w/ adam talking.  If you really were taught in the exact same manner and hadnt seen his prior to filming your, it was all just bad timing * (see the squatflex promotion accidental timing )  then i apologize for that.  
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 09:58:16 pm
I'm surprised you have never heard any other coach use clapping for as an audio clue for getting steps right in jumping events.  I've seen it not only in the states, but also in other countries.

I was also surprised at how sure you were that I had no substantial track and field background.

That I have people calling me out with such vehemence and over arching confidence is mind blowing to me.

[the not using notes part was the best ;)]

Anyways... apology accepted man. 

Can I earn 1 benefit of the doubt for next time?

BTW - Adman is a friend of mine, and we've talked about this.


Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 09:59:30 pm
LOL - See squat flex "accidental timing...

It wasn't that my timing was an "accident" I just don't see how any timing changes how or why I promoted.

(take that question back there if you want or IM me...)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 10:00:49 pm
I'm watching your video, and this guy actually does sound like me... and I'm sure came up with it before me... (his age)... but I've never seen this video, and that's all beside the point.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 10:26:21 pm
I did a quick search about clapping and track and field:

This guy:
Talks about using clapping for the steps in triple jump:
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/kennebec-journal/mi_8137/is_20100530/triple-jump-art/ai_n53841939/

This one:
Talks about using the clap to help throwers get their steps right:
"Start simply by having athletes clap the rhythm of the throw"
http://ezinearticles.com/?Discus-Throw-Secrets&id=2505998

Another:
This one recommends using a clap to give an audio cue - which I have found to be common as well (for triple jump).
"You can also clap your hands as they land to give them an audio cue hearing the rhythm."
http://www.thetriplejump.com/triple-jump-drills/teaching-progression/how-to-teach-the-triple.html

Another:
This also recommends using the clap and having an audio cue for the steps:
http://www.pembinatrails.ca/program/physicaleducation/Documents/Documents%20and%20Articles/Phys%20Ed/Track%20and%20Field/Long%20Jump%20and%20Triple%20Jump%20Clinic.pdf


I think that the getting a rhythm is obviously important for jumps to help the jumper relax as well as get the proper footwork in place AND clapping just seems like the most natural way to train that rhythm.. IMO.

I'm curious how you teach the takeoff lance... might be interesting.

How do you teach the approach and takeoff?



Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on December 19, 2010, 10:28:28 pm
  I wasnt saying anything about that video being LIKE yours, the video i posted is legendary track and field coach, Tom Tellez, teaching the penultimate step, not anywhere nearly like adams vid or yours, the whole point of me pasting it was showing you that there are many differences in the methods used for teaching, adams hand claps was something he was proud of and when he linked me his vid and yours, with the date on his being earlier, it looked like it had been copied.  

  "Substantial track and field background"- looks like you triple jumped 42 feet and five inches? nice man,srsly, I respect jumpers, I have worked with alot of them.  One of the female athletes I worked with throughout college here at Sam Houston jumped 42 feet and 11 and a half inches her sr year so I know and respect what kind of triple jump that is.

"Adman is your buddy" - does he know this?  I had never watched one of your videos or seen anything about you until he url'd me the video of his way of teaching the pen step and then yours, pointing out the dates on the videos and upset about it.  

Anyway man yea, I dont care, if you did or didnt, thats your deal and Im not out to get you or anything like that, when he pointed out the videos to me I pretty much made my mind up about it on that alone so if youre not at fault there then cool, thats between you two now.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on December 19, 2010, 10:35:16 pm
I did a quick search about clapping and track and field:

This guy:
Talks about using clapping for the steps in triple jump:
http://findarticles.com/p/news-articles/kennebec-journal/mi_8137/is_20100530/triple-jump-art/ai_n53841939/

This one:
Talks about using the clap to help throwers get their steps right:
"Start simply by having athletes clap the rhythm of the throw"
http://ezinearticles.com/?Discus-Throw-Secrets&id=2505998

Another:
This one recommends using a clap to give an audio cue - which I have found to be common as well (for triple jump).
"You can also clap your hands as they land to give them an audio cue hearing the rhythm."
http://www.thetriplejump.com/triple-jump-drills/teaching-progression/how-to-teach-the-triple.html

Another:
This also recommends using the clap and having an audio cue for the steps:
http://www.pembinatrails.ca/program/physicaleducation/Documents/Documents%20and%20Articles/Phys%20Ed/Track%20and%20Field/Long%20Jump%20and%20Triple%20Jump%20Clinic.pdf


I think that the getting a rhythm is obviously important for jumps to help the jumper relax as well as get the proper footwork in place AND clapping just seems like the most natural way to train that rhythm.. IMO.

I'm curious how you teach the takeoff lance... might be interesting.

How do you teach the approach and takeoff?





If you google "clapping and .... anything" youre gonna find some examples of it,  i am in agreement about the rythm being taught in specific ways, i have seen snapping, demos with the stride from the coaches, drumming on a table and the ground, etc., but the claps on the video was a new one for me, note that tom didnt do that either in his video.

ME- The acceleration into the jump is always important, the penultimate step will differ according to the individual characteristics of the athlete, look at how alot of the european track and field coaches are teaching the penultimate step presently, it varies greatly.  Trying to force an athlete into a pen step thats not comfortable or optimal for their individual structures, strengths, etc., will hurt them more than help them.  
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on December 19, 2010, 10:54:26 pm
 Btw jacob, if youre srsly wanting to know how I believe the penultimate step is best taught, the 1-2-3 drill is one of the single, most effective ways to get it down pat. Three step from the lip backwards, get the mark, and go.   Working from 3 and then back is a very successful method and proven effective time and time again.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 19, 2010, 11:46:43 pm
  "Substantial track and field background"- looks like you triple jumped 42 feet and five inches? nice man,srsly, I respect jumpers, I have worked with alot of them.  One of the female athletes I worked with throughout college here at Sam Houston jumped 42 feet and 11 and a half inches her sr year so I know and respect what kind of triple jump that is.

lol - I can't tell if this is serious or not.  I'm curious where you got that number, I jumped well over that in high school... haha...
I jumped more then that in high school, really nothing to brag about my high school and college athlete days were full of unreached potential... my college jumping career was nothing special...  it wasn't until after college sports that I actually "figured things out" and started getting results to be proud about.

I communicate with Adam every now and then and actually had talked to him about this forum.

Regardless, you know me now... and from what i can tell you don't "really" have a problem with me.. I don't think, so if you have problems with me it'd be appreciated if you come to me first or at least inquire.



Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 20, 2010, 12:02:15 am
 "Substantial track and field background"- looks like you triple jumped 42 feet and five inches? nice man,srsly, I respect jumpers, I have worked with alot of them.  One of the female athletes I worked with throughout college here at Sam Houston jumped 42 feet and 11 and a half inches her sr year so I know and respect what kind of triple jump that is.

lol - I can't tell if this is serious or not.  I'm curious where you got that number, I jumped well over that in high school... haha...
I jumped more then that in high school, really nothing to brag about my high school and college athlete days were full of unreached potential... my college jumping career was nothing special...  it wasn't until after college sports that I actually "figured things out" and started getting results to be proud about.

42 aint too bad in high school for what it's worth.

what were your numbers in h.s./college? just curious.. You specialized in triple jump? Or did you high jump also? For what college?

peace man



Quote
I communicate with Adam every now and then and actually had talked to him about this forum.

Regardless, you know me now... and from what i can tell you don't "really" have a problem with me.. I don't think, so if you have problems with me it'd be appreciated if you come to me first or at least inquire.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 20, 2010, 12:26:01 am
In conference before state I jumped a 44' and in long jump I jumped a 22'... I think those were both Sr. Year. 

(in high school I wrestled, ran track Sophmore and SR year, and played on the basketball team (except the year I wrestled)

... I jumped for a small college in Iowa called Simpson.

I honestly don't remember my college PRs...

I also played basketball there.

College and high school my hops period were above average but nothing too special.

Dunk wise I could throw down 2 handers off one foot....

My best year athletically was at age 24 - 25, at 235 pounds (about 12% BF)... I was stronger and jumping higher then I ever have in my life.  This was before I knew people were doing dunk mixes on youtube...


I'm 29 now, and training is a bit intermittent with work and traveling, but after another year we hope to be in one place for a while longer.

I follow your vids... and like watching your progression, but I'm also interested in video work.

I just got Sony Vegas Pro and snagged a new Sony a33 camera, trying to decide on that or a CAnon 60d.

I think you are an after affects fan... thinking about dipping in but I love Sony Vegas for kicking out quick vids, the production assistant with that program is a huge time saver.

Do you think AE is any good for getting vids out quick?


Adarq - I'm guessing you've been on the online scene for a while.



Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: LanceSTS on December 20, 2010, 01:16:39 am
  someone linked a url of a (correction) 43 ft 4.5 inch triple jump of what he assumed was yours, if it wasnt then cool 44 is good too in hs.  Nah I dont have a problem with you personally, if i did I would be real clear about it and my replies to you would have been alot different.  The bottom line with me is I hate seeing young aspiring athletes get scammed by people who they trust or believe online, simply because these people make money off of their lack of training knowledge. I spend of alot of my time online trying to make sure that doesnt happen and these kids have a chance at solid, results producing, training before they get scammed or mislead into wasting their time or getting injured.  As long as you stay on the good side of the fence in that aspect I have no reason to ever have a issue or problem with you.  I still think the squatflex idea is retarded but like I said if you honestly believe in it then Im not gonna hate you for liking something that I dont.

 
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Cloud3205 on December 20, 2010, 01:28:16 am
Couldn't have said it better myself Lance.  Anyone hear of Air Alert?  I mean that's where my concern comes in too...I gave up 6 months of hard training and no results from Air Alert because I was just starting out.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: JayC on December 20, 2010, 07:22:47 pm
Also, as for the 50inchvertical site... it's some affiliates.  If these guys are spamming let me know I can report them and have them warned.  It's not good for me.  Jack W. probably gets the same thing sometimes.



Seriously, these guys spam on every damn video that has anything to do with vert or some NBA player making a highlight or whatever, i'd report them for sure if I were you.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 01:17:44 am
I have reported several.

I'll have to check up on this 50inchvert guy.

I don't mind them promoting.. of course but when it damages reputation... it's no good.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: aiir on December 21, 2010, 02:37:38 pm
I have reported several.

I'll have to check up on this 50inchvert guy.

I don't mind them promoting.. of course but when it damages reputation... it's no good.

are you kidding me?! that shit has been around for the past 2-3 years now, on most TFB vids, a lot of testimonials, hecka stuff
and you don't know about it?


doesn't make sense
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on December 21, 2010, 04:58:46 pm
I have reported several.

I'll have to check up on this 50inchvert guy.

I don't mind them promoting.. of course but when it damages reputation... it's no good.

are you kidding me?! that shit has been around for the past 2-3 years now, on most TFB vids, a lot of testimonials, hecka stuff
and you don't know about it?


doesn't make sense

Well it takes a while to take any action...

In the meantime, you can watch your bank account grow. :personal-record:
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 09:03:47 pm
I'm 29 now, and training is a bit intermittent with work and traveling, but after another year we hope to be in one place for a while longer.

I follow your vids... and like watching your progression, but I'm also interested in video work.

I just got Sony Vegas Pro and snagged a new Sony a33 camera, trying to decide on that or a CAnon 60d.

I think you are an after affects fan... thinking about dipping in but I love Sony Vegas for kicking out quick vids, the production assistant with that program is a huge time saver.

ya after effects isn't really a good program for quick editing, it's not supposed to be used the way i use it for example.. I should be using final cut pro or something more simple like that, which is meant for stringing clips together very fast.



Quote
Do you think AE is any good for getting vids out quick?

nah.. it's more for adding effects, really crazy color schemes, compositing etc.



Quote
Adarq - I'm guessing you've been on the online scene for a while.

ya pretty much,  the s&c online scene only since around 2006.. spent alot of my time programming throughout high school & college.







raptor, isn't the 50inchvertical.com guy, that Hazarian guy from TVS? lol..
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 09:31:45 pm
Quote
are you kidding me?! that shit has been around for the past 2-3 years now, on most TFB vids, a lot of testimonials, hecka stuff
and you don't know about it?

doesn't make sense

I see it around, but probably not as much as you have.

When I get complaints from others I tend to check up on it, or warn them, or talk to them.

I don't know this guy... trust me, if he is super annoying it NOT good for me.

Half the comments on you tube are "1st!" or "Hey I'm 5 foot and wanna dunk, right?"

I know many people think that the spammy stuff is making big $$$ but, I have shut down spammy affiliates before and the few sales they might make is not worth the damage they do.. especially when people think it is me, and don't realize it's an affiliate... which has happened.

I'm not a fan of the spammy stuff... not only is it annoying, but it's just not effective.  Same with pushy salesman, who wants to buy from a pushy salesman... no one.

From my experience most of them end up quitting, their noobs, and trying to hard without thinking of how to help others.

ADARQ -

AE looks awesome, almost bought it a while back, but ended up not... just got busy.

I love Sony Vegas... not sure what you shoot your vids with but I'm looking at a new sony DSLR they are pretty sweet, but the canons also look good.  I'm new to most of this stuff.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2010, 11:00:41 pm
ADARQ -

AE looks awesome, almost bought it a while back, but ended up not... just got busy.

ya AE is crazy, it's movie industry level.. alot of the commercials you see now on tv are touched up bigtime with AE, lots of the titles are done in AE now, for movies/car commercials etc.


Quote
I love Sony Vegas... not sure what you shoot your vids with but I'm looking at a new sony DSLR they are pretty sweet, but the canons also look good.  I'm new to most of this stuff.

I shoot my videos with a "canon hv30", it's a damn good camera I love it.. It's tape based, not digital, but tape is apparently better quality than digital so, I don't know. I got it because I searched all over youtube for HD cams, and every time I found a "canon hv30 test footage" video, it was the best at the time.. A good technique to see if you will like your camera before you buy it, is to just search the cam name + "test footage" "low light test" etc..

peace man
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 21, 2010, 11:27:49 pm
I found this $290 dollar cam, yesterday, it's an anamoly.. it's basically used for one thing... analyzing form, and mostly for golfers.

It shoots at 600 FPS... holy slow mo... I'm thinking about grabbing that just to do soem serious form analyzation or dunk vids slow mos.

Slow mo in AE is tight though.. I messed with it in the trial... Sony Vegas slo mo is easy, but not sure it can stretch out all stinkin 600 frames.

I have the name of the cam written down if your intersted... It doesn't shoot a large size pic... probably not much bigger then standard youtube.. but the slow mo is insane.

I usually buy the stuff at Best Buy first, use it and return... I bought the sony and it has some sweet features.

I like the swivel out display so I it's easy to setup flyin solo.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: DamienZ on December 22, 2010, 02:12:18 pm
I found this $290 dollar cam, yesterday, it's an anamoly.. it's basically used for one thing... analyzing form, and mostly for golfers.

It shoots at 600 FPS... holy slow mo... I'm thinking about grabbing that just to do soem serious form analyzation or dunk vids slow mos.

Slow mo in AE is tight though.. I messed with it in the trial... Sony Vegas slo mo is easy, but not sure it can stretch out all stinkin 600 frames.

I have the name of the cam written down if your intersted... It doesn't shoot a large size pic... probably not much bigger then standard youtube.. but the slow mo is insane.

I usually buy the stuff at Best Buy first, use it and return... I bought the sony and it has some sweet features.

I like the swivel out display so I it's easy to setup flyin solo.

Yo Jacob,

If you shoot at 600fps, the cam will still save the video at 30fps. So you don't have to "stretch it out" with vegas.
The problem with those cameras is that you need good light for the slow motion. Indoors is problematic...

V-DSLRs are a pain in the ass for quick filming (point and shoot, without preparation)! Manual focus with the desired shallow depth of field isn't easy! No image stabilization makes it even worse...

For most people i recommend Kodak Playsports or Kodak Zx1, as they are cheap, easy to handle, small and record 60fps. You can also modify them to put wideangles or fisheyes on them.

AE, Vegas, Final Cut, Premiere = all "industry level". It's just that AE is a compositing suite and not a video editor. I personally don't like Sony Vegas and would rather use Windows Movie Maker, especially on a slow computer (everything other than clean cuts and text titles sucks anyway...). For Mac, Final Cut (or Quicktime Pro or MPEG Streamclip) is the way to go.

http://www.lightworksbeta.com/ (http://www.lightworksbeta.com/)
i never tried this, but it seems to be good (and free)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 08:02:32 pm
I love Vegas... the production assistant makes life so easy.

Interesting... about slow mo...  I'm a noob in this stuff, by my vids are getting a bit better.

Someday we'll fight about Mac vs PC... (Was a pc.. then changed to mac... now I'm back to PC)

That Lightworks looks cool... It'd be awesome to have the "wordpress" or open source giant of video editing... with tons of awesome plugins. etc...


Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 08:18:33 pm
BTW it's a sony a33
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: DamienZ on December 22, 2010, 08:20:06 pm
I love Vegas... the production assistant makes life so easy.

Interesting... about slow mo...  I'm a noob in this stuff, by my vids are getting a bit better.
well, at 30fps, every frame will be exposed to light for 1/30 second. at 600fps its only 1/600th second, so you can imagine that theres a lot less light for the exposure at 600fps.

Quote
Someday we'll fight about Mac vs PC... (Was a pc.. then changed to mac... now I'm back to PC)
I want it simple, easy and working. I also don't mind if it looks good. I don't like to "hack" on my computer anymore, so I'm Mac all the way! I have to say that i do gfx and video stuff and most people use Mac for this.

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That Lightworks looks cool... It'd be awesome to have the "wordpress" or open source giant of video editing... with tons of awesome plugins. etc...
Videoediting/Filmography is the same as Training. At first you want to use every gimmick and effect and you are searching for the secret magic pill. In the end you go back to the basics - Training: increase max strength with squats & deadlifts, get faster with sprint & jumps - Editing: clean cuts or fades, basic text titles, no effects (hey, that's how movies are done!).


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Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 08:21:09 pm
Biggest problem with Vegas is the audio scrubbing... in the "trimmer" but imovie has awesome audio and video scrubbing.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: DamienZ on December 22, 2010, 08:24:53 pm
BTW it's a sony a33

IF you decide to buy a VDSLR, I'd go with Canon! Much more lenses available, much more used equipment you can buy and bigger userbase (don't know if that's the proper word for it).
If you don't need the 60D because of the photographic features, I'd go with the 550D (T2i in US). I have this cam myself. It has the same videomode as the 7D and everything one needs for photographing!
Heck, some years ago pro photoraphers used the 1D which had only 4M pixels ;)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 08:25:40 pm
Sony Vegas Production Assistant Process -

Shoot video...
choose premade custom template... (fades, titles, intro, outro, transitions... all you want...)...
Select music...

DONE... upload to youtube...

OF course this is mostly for easy tutorials and long windy explanations of training principles :)

It's true that making PC work perfectly requires some hacking ... but I found that once it's in place.. my work flow is amazingly streamlined, and thus production up.  I just couldn't find all the programs I needed for mac... and now.. I just can't find any reason to change to mac... But I'm definitely open to mac, and part of me still wants to switch, I just can't find any reason.

Nice analogy...
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 22, 2010, 08:27:45 pm
Dude I don't know what a VDSLR is.. I thought both the sony and canon were DSLR...

I have a feeling we're about to be kicked out of this forum for topic drift.

Adarq rules with a steel hand knife.. which he wears around his friggin neck... have wondered why.. ?? anyone?
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: DamienZ on December 22, 2010, 08:32:31 pm
Biggest problem with Vegas is the audio scrubbing... in the "trimmer" but imovie has awesome audio and video scrubbing.
I think the timeline in iMovie is retarded, lol! Quicktime Pro for very quick cuts, or Final Cut Express/Pro for more editing.

Sony Vegas Production Assistant Process -

Shoot video...
choose premade custom template... (fades, titles, intro, outro, transitions... all you want...)...
Select music...

DONE... upload to youtube...

OF course this is mostly for easy tutorials and long windy explanations of training principles :)

It's true that making PC work perfectly requires some hacking ... but I found that once it's in place.. my work flow is amazingly streamlined, and thus production up.  I just couldn't find all the programs I needed for mac... and now.. I just can't find any reason to change to mac... But I'm definitely open to mac, and part of me still wants to switch, I just can't find any reason.

Nice analogy...
I never tried that assistant. Don't like the idea that a program will cut my videos for me, as most of my video have specific frames that have to be in the video and i on't think it would recognize it...

When were you using Mac? The times that there weren't programs or alternatives available are long gone! Often times there is open source/freeware that is better than commercial PC programs.
At first i was scared to make the switch, but i've never looked back and would be missing so many small features on a PC.

Dude I don't know what a VDSLR is.. I thought both the sony and canon were DSLR...

I have a feeling we're about to be kicked out of this forum for topic drift.

Adarq rules with a steel hand knife.. which he wears around his friggin neck... have wondered why.. ?? anyone?
V-DSLR is a Video DSLR - DSLR with video function ;)
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: BMully on December 22, 2010, 10:48:36 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPk5RVjMyi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LoK9tlUCdU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoFqw4NQ_4M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3x1bliM4ZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP5HuAVjv4s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_EP3VJ9RoA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJZp2wNf-fE
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 12:40:46 am
Dude I don't know what a VDSLR is.. I thought both the sony and canon were DSLR...

I have a feeling we're about to be kicked out of this forum for topic drift.

Adarq rules with a steel hand knife.. which he wears around his friggin neck... have wondered why.. ?? anyone?

i've been chased by loose pitbulls before, so.. it's just for general protection, I have a pretty expensive camera out there, so, rabid dogs, rabid thugs, or who knows what else, i got to be prepared :) I'm very defensive, always have been, I try not to put myself in situations where I don't have exit strategies, don't know why, always been that way.. lol, so ya that knife is really sharp and really big, very easy to pull out of the holster, I'd never want to use it but if I had to, no hesitation, plus i'd probably get it on cam, would make for a sick youtube video lolol.

Btw, damien is a damn video editing beast.. I'll create a video editing topic in "Let's nerd the F out forum" so you guys & I can continue any convo there.

peCe!
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:30:03 am
Quote
"Let's nerd the F out forum"

HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
lol, so ya that knife is really sharp and really big, very easy to pull out of the holster, I'd never want to use it but if I had to, no hesitation, plus i'd probably get it on cam, would make for a sick youtube video lolol.

LOL!  ...
Quote
damien is a damn video editing beast..

Perhaps it's collaborating with the enemy, but I've wanted to someone to help me with videos or consult me from time to time... or even make intros / outros...  If your interested hit me up.

Adarq... thanks for posting those testimonial vids... I should mention - I think the "freetofly" one is Danial Back (cool dude and has a nice youtube channel 'jumptrainee", and unless that is his channel it's some affiliate re-posting his vid, I should let him know so he can get it taken down.  On a second note, Brandon Todd has asked for his testimonials to be removed (he has started his own thing)... I took mine down, he knows they are on youtube, so not sure why he doesn't ask youtube to remove them, they are really good about that. The others though, are random dudes who sent me vids :)  I have some more also... that I haven't posted.  One that some kid sent me last year that I have hesitated on because it will probably get criticized.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:38:56 am
The below guy actually has some really good jumps... he's a super nice kid, so be nice please.

Fast forward to get through his long testimonial and into the dunks.

IF he could jump the same with the ball he'd do some sick dunks, and he's made awesome progress.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoFqw4NQ_4M
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 01:39:31 am
oops...
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 02:40:40 am
Quote
"Let's nerd the F out forum"

HAHAHAHAAHAHHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote
lol, so ya that knife is really sharp and really big, very easy to pull out of the holster, I'd never want to use it but if I had to, no hesitation, plus i'd probably get it on cam, would make for a sick youtube video lolol.

LOL!  ...
Quote
damien is a damn video editing beast..

Perhaps it's collaborating with the enemy, but I've wanted to someone to help me with videos or consult me from time to time... or even make intros / outros...  If your interested hit me up.

Adarq... thanks for posting those testimonial vids... I should mention - I think the "freetofly" one is Danial Back (cool dude and has a nice youtube channel 'jumptrainee", and unless that is his channel it's some affiliate re-posting his vid, I should let him know so he can get it taken down.  On a second note, Brandon Todd has asked for his testimonials to be removed (he has started his own thing)... I took mine down, he knows they are on youtube, so not sure why he doesn't ask youtube to remove them, they are really good about that. The others though, are random dudes who sent me vids :)  I have some more also... that I haven't posted.  One that some kid sent me last year that I have hesitated on because it will probably get criticized.

hey, bmully posted those, not me.. hehe

damn that's kinda grimey though that Brandon Todd wanted you to take down his testimonial, if your program did help him, he should have stuck by that. Weak.

peace
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Jacob Hiller on December 23, 2010, 03:10:23 am
Oops... I'm only a 3 star member... I'm gettin it.



Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on December 23, 2010, 06:35:49 am
Aren't you going to get arrested for carrying a knife on the streets? It's illegal in Romania. Knives, swords etc are called "white weapons" and are illegal.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 23, 2010, 04:43:47 pm
Aren't you going to get arrested for carrying a knife on the streets? It's illegal in Romania. Knives, swords etc are called "white weapons" and are illegal.

i don't carry a big knife on the skreets, i carry a small one then.. on your own property it's fine, open carry laws in florida on your own property.

pc
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Raptor on December 24, 2010, 06:33:58 am
So what... you keep a big knife on your property so that someone doesn't jump the fence to steal the camera or what?
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: Dreyth on December 31, 2010, 08:22:17 am
I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate

he sucks ass


hahhaha man this is the funniest shit i've seen in a while. it's even funnier if you read all the posts one by one from the beginning.

yes, i quoted the first page.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: adarqui on December 31, 2010, 02:08:54 pm
So what... you keep a big knife on your property so that someone doesn't jump the fence to steal the camera or what?

there's no fence, but ya.. gotta knife an animal/human up if they mess with my canon hv30 or macbook.







I have never heard anyone bash him, ever.

he sucks

care to elaborate

he sucks ass


hahhaha man this is the funniest shit i've seen in a while. it's even funnier if you read all the posts one by one from the beginning.

yes, i quoted the first page.

"he sucks", "care to elaborate", "he sucks ass"

i think i remember telling zgin to chill with that, but ya it is a funny exchange, lol.

check the "coaches who promote squatflex" thread in call em out, for many more lols.
Title: Re: Jump Manual
Post by: zgin on December 31, 2010, 02:58:57 pm
that was a great first page of dialogue.  ;D