Author Topic: ADARQ's journal  (Read 1622965 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7335 on: September 20, 2017, 11:10:00 pm »
+2
to add to this:

http://www.adarq.org/track-field/teaching-my-girl-to-runsprint/msg135288/?topicseen#msg135288

last year, after my ~3rd 5k race (~18:40 or so), I hit up this track with GFLRRC. So, my 5k was steadily going down, that's why I mention my time. Anyway, while running with the group there, I noticed my stride freq was lower than the rest of the group. The coach there told me I need to pick up my stride frequency and lean more. So, I scratched the leaning for the moment, and picked up stride freq. Anyway, I matched the freq of the group so I stuck with it.

A few days later, I started trying to lean more, and strained my soleus. I actually knew trying to learn more seemed stupid, it didn't feel good but I tried it anyway.

This was all part of me getting rid of my forefoot/midfoot obsession. All those form gurus put shit in my head. I came into running with an urge to make some serious progress so I accepted some form advice from various people.

Anyway, after several strains and issues while trying to adopt midfoot/forefoot, I went back to a flat foot strike and realized how much I love it. It felt so much stronger, lasted longer under fatigue, and felt normal.

So anyway, I was done with that midfoot/forefoot bs.

Ok so, that coach also kept telling me I need to do more long runs. I see everyone doing them so I figured, after December, you know what i'll experiment with it. Well I did, and I started feeling slow as all fu*k. I got injured eventually, but more so from a variety of factors ... but the long running itself made me feel like shit. Oh, also, I took the advice from that elite runner I found on youtube - he was non-stop about more long slow running.

I'm back on my high frequency, low volume, low to high intensity running workouts and I feel great. This is just something I just "naturally adopted" and I love it. So, it seems normal to me. This is also how I made all of my progress last summer/fall.

So back to the original comment about stride freq: So, now I have a footpod.... It tells me how fast my legs are turning over and how much distance I get per stride.. So, i'm at the track yesterday and noticed my frequency was back to "normal", slower than the rest of the group. They have faster turn over with less stride length, I have slower turn over with more stride length.

So here it comes, the coach tells me I need to turn my legs over faster .............. but I didn't. I go back and look at my footpod data, and i'm over 180. You'd have thought I was turning them over at 160 or something, the way he seems to zero in on it.

I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but, in the absence of data, how could he possibly know if I should be turning my legs over faster or not? Because of my stride freq compared to the people i'm running with? But, what if they are turning their legs over too fast? We are trying to improve running, and they are turning them over maybe at 200 SPM .. shouldn't they be trying to maintain a more natural stride, that they can use in a race for the entire duration? They probably do, that's probably how fast they turn their legs over.. but I find it interesting, in the absence of data, how someone trying to help, could very well be hurting someone.

This goes back to my reply to scoob. We and others want to help, but the "form advice" i've seen on most forums and youtube videos, seems to do more harm than good. It's good intentioned, that's why people give it, to help.

But me personally, i'm trying to return to having a clear mind when running, not thinking about shit. I remember when I used to run and I definitely didn't think about form. I just ran.... wtf? That was amazing. How the hell do I get back to that point? I think by experimenting with some of these things and experiencing injuries/setbacks/detrimental adaptations etc, that's definitely helping me to get back to just running.

anyway, just some quick thoughts on it because, when I see people always turn towards "form", like it's some kind of magic thing you can just tweak with a few cues/tips and re-engineer someone etc, it gets me a bit..

Oh and then recently I saw that guy training some kid to run a 60 for baseball, at the track .. non-stop form instruction, kid barely ran anything. And when he did run, he looked like total shit because he was doing things like "trying to get his knees up". It was so painful to watch. Kid should have just done like 4 x 60 ME and some other work.

over coaching = bad.

and ya my squat form "sucked by most people's critique" but it was effective as fuck.

 :ninja: :ninja: :ninja:

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7336 on: September 20, 2017, 11:38:37 pm »
+4
also just came back on to say ..

my two dogs have pretty impressive running & jumping form, they def aren't thinking about it. They run hard every day though, and just love it. At times, I really wish I could be them. They are just 100% focused on the moment, not overthinking anything, not thinking about some responsibility they have, they are just in it, pure happiness & effort.

also as far as clearing the mind goes, racing definitely seems to help with that. Very easy to go "blank", other than maybe "quit thoughts", when trying to keep up with faster people. Then if you can't, you're toast and still trying to gut it out. Not much to think about.. lmao.

finally, when I see people running, I occasionally see really "bad" runners overthinking form. Not sure where they learn this stuff but, you see them overly pumping their arms, and you'll see guys tip toeing their runs - which really looks insane. They are doing all kinds of weird things, in addition to not being in the best shape, and it makes for a really bad combo. IMHO, they just need to relax, zone out, and get the miles in, also occasionally (once they are in shape for a few months) start incorporating some submax speed intervals or just faster intervals in general.

overthinking & overanalysis can be crippling, from what i've seen & experienced.

gn!

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7337 on: September 20, 2017, 11:54:09 pm »
+1
it's a good thought. I find when i think about counting how many jump rope reps ive done i dont do as many. Not sure if it's something i should be trainign though, maybe being able to do many things simultaneously is also helpful for an athlete. idk. Like if you're super unfit and you're playing sport you enter that mental fog but in a game like bball where you have to be smart and make sound decisions - training that ability (thinking under extreme fatigue/duress) is a useful thing. who knows tho
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

FP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
  • Respect: +777
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7338 on: September 21, 2017, 12:58:42 am »
+1
Unpopular opinion:

I mean we all have our certain build and strengths and
weaknesses and because of that we are inefficient in most of our mechanics. Optimal mechanics require the ideal physique+athletic level for whatever it is you are doing. So when you try to force optimal mechanics and you don't have the required adaptions for it, you do significantly worse than your normal technique.

But imo if you keep trying to perform with optimal mechanics, you are hitting your limiting factor every time! For example, im not very good at top speed, my top speed running is quad dominant. If I continue running with my quad dominant form, my weaker p-chain +elastic strength is not being stressed enough and continue to lag behind. However when I switch to good cycling technique even though it is much less efficient for me because of my characteristics, I optimize my training to improve what is holding me back. (Simplified example)

Your point about injuries is a good one and I think progression should be extremely careful and gradual for changing mechanics. It could take months or years to get your limiting factor up to scratch and could be risky because you don't know how gradual this progression should be. But if you keep doing whatever with "personalized/suboptimal" form you will never live up to your potential and eventually hit a plateau that will be even more difficult to overcome because you've learned the wrong movement pattern so well.

Granted this doesn't apply to everything but stuff like sprinting, some jumps, change of direction where there's a clear superior form could benefit from optimizing mechanics imo
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 01:03:23 am by Final Phenom »

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12841
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +7949
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7339 on: September 21, 2017, 03:40:13 am »
+5
re adarq's last post, something my dad posted on fb recently:

If you can start the day without caffeine or pep pills,
If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when loved ones are too busy to give you time,
If you can overlook when people take things out on you when,
through no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed or color, religion or politics,
If you can do all these things,
Then you are almost as good as your dog.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5993
  • Respect: +3779
    • View Profile
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7340 on: September 21, 2017, 03:52:56 am »
+2
^^^^^
Dogs are ultra racist to cats though!  :trollface:

Strong post , loved it!
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Mikey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3303
  • Respect: +2787
    • View Profile
    • http://www.youtube.com/user/Mutumbo000?feature=mhee
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7341 on: September 21, 2017, 09:36:52 am »
+2
Unpopular opinion:

I mean we all have our certain build and strengths and
weaknesses and because of that we are inefficient in most of our mechanics. Optimal mechanics require the ideal physique+athletic level for whatever it is you are doing. So when you try to force optimal mechanics and you don't have the required adaptions for it, you do significantly worse than your normal technique.

But imo if you keep trying to perform with optimal mechanics, you are hitting your limiting factor every time! For example, im not very good at top speed, my top speed running is quad dominant. If I continue running with my quad dominant form, my weaker p-chain +elastic strength is not being stressed enough and continue to lag behind. However when I switch to good cycling technique even though it is much less efficient for me because of my characteristics, I optimize my training to improve what is holding me back. (Simplified example)

Your point about injuries is a good one and I think progression should be extremely careful and gradual for changing mechanics. It could take months or years to get your limiting factor up to scratch and could be risky because you don't know how gradual this progression should be. But if you keep doing whatever with "personalized/suboptimal" form you will never live up to your potential and eventually hit a plateau that will be even more difficult to overcome because you've learned the wrong movement pattern so well.

Granted this doesn't apply to everything but stuff like sprinting, some jumps, change of direction where there's a clear superior form could benefit from optimizing mechanics imo

I definitely agree with you when it comes to weights. In this video this high school strength and conditioning coach emphasies about the importance of learning the correct technique of lifting before progressing with the weights.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2vnFpWCBQg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2vnFpWCBQg</a>

I disagree when it comes to running though. I wish T0oday still posted but he made a lot of posts about sprinters with awful techniques that still had incredibly fast times. Speed is power to weight ratio. Top speed is often considered genetic but it can be improved by working on your top speed through drills and building speed endurance. Running is natural. It's best not to overthink it. Keep it simple. By all means use a few ques like keeping your head straight and chin slightly down and arms relaxed but there's no need to over analyse. Effort>technique. If you run 200m tempos your body is naturally going to find the most efficient way for you to run and achieve the times with the least effort. That's building technique. I know my explanation is shit and I can't word it that good but focus on putting in the work, running high intensity, and building up your work capacity and that will make you achieve far greater than a smaller workload with more emphasis placed on technique.

"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7342 on: September 21, 2017, 06:13:21 pm »
0
Unpopular opinion:

I mean we all have our certain build and strengths and
weaknesses and because of that we are inefficient in most of our mechanics. Optimal mechanics require the ideal physique+athletic level for whatever it is you are doing. So when you try to force optimal mechanics and you don't have the required adaptions for it, you do significantly worse than your normal technique.

But imo if you keep trying to perform with optimal mechanics, you are hitting your limiting factor every time! For example, im not very good at top speed, my top speed running is quad dominant. If I continue running with my quad dominant form, my weaker p-chain +elastic strength is not being stressed enough and continue to lag behind. However when I switch to good cycling technique even though it is much less efficient for me because of my characteristics, I optimize my training to improve what is holding me back. (Simplified example)

Your point about injuries is a good one and I think progression should be extremely careful and gradual for changing mechanics. It could take months or years to get your limiting factor up to scratch and could be risky because you don't know how gradual this progression should be. But if you keep doing whatever with "personalized/suboptimal" form you will never live up to your potential and eventually hit a plateau that will be even more difficult to overcome because you've learned the wrong movement pattern so well.

Granted this doesn't apply to everything but stuff like sprinting, some jumps, change of direction where there's a clear superior form could benefit from optimizing mechanics imo

For sure. I think the big question though is, whether or not someone can truly spot inefficiencies in their mechanics and do the right drills to correct them. This is where I think most of it falls apart. Getting instruction from coaches with incredible amounts of experience, and perhaps having things analyzed in a performance lab, are probably good steps .. actually, more so for coach, less so for performance lab. Performance labs in universities for example, have lots of "brainiacs" but perhaps not the proper levels of actual experience, correcting technique/movements for real athletes. But legitimate coaches with impressive histories, probably are the highest up on my list. Though, you may still get advice which is aimed at "turning you into someone else", turning you into athletes they are more familiar working with.

To my first point, I imagine scoob is telling his girl to get her knees up etc .. I can picture someone forcing their knees up while running, and just wrecking their mechanics. I've seen people do this IRL, it looks absolutely insane. For some reason, they are convinced that forcing their knees up is the right thing to do. I once did something similar with cycling my trail leg, I forced it, stupid idea. The best way to get your trail leg to cycle better, is to go faster. The best way to get your knees up, is to go faster. The best way to get your shoulders/arms pumping, is to go faster. etc.

As for your quad dominant top speed mechanics, does manually focusing on your cycling technique help more than primetime sprints (stiff leg bounds) etc? You've done all kinds of things, so I imagine you know best. But, I think before people resort to form changes, they should try and focus on doing the activity more (in most cases), but also incorporate assistance exercises aimed at strengthening those weaknesses, without having to manually think about them during the actual movement. I mean, that's the route *I prefer*. Sometimes you just have to focus on something to fix it, there's all kinds of specific cases so there's lots of caveats.

Also, as for your quad dominant top speed mechanics, there's also the possible scenario that continuing to use that technique for many years, the hamstrings/glutes would still catch up because of the speed improvements over time. ie, you might hit your ceiling with natural form, but then if you just keep hammering it, you may get more contribution from p-chain since you're hitting higher speeds at your ceiling. You would know better than me though that's for sure.

By any chance, what are your max speed numbers over some distance, between the two forms?

peace!!

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7343 on: September 21, 2017, 06:14:20 pm »
0
re adarq's last post, something my dad posted on fb recently:

If you can start the day without caffeine or pep pills,
If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when loved ones are too busy to give you time,
If you can overlook when people take things out on you when,
through no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,
If you can say honestly that deep in your heart you have no prejudice against creed or color, religion or politics,
If you can do all these things,
Then you are almost as good as your dog.

major case of deja vu .. did you ever post that before?

regardless, your father deserves to be in the "Post Hall of Fame" .. awesome poem.

dogs > *

:highfive: :goodjobbro:

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7344 on: September 21, 2017, 06:30:03 pm »
+1
Unpopular opinion:

I mean we all have our certain build and strengths and
weaknesses and because of that we are inefficient in most of our mechanics. Optimal mechanics require the ideal physique+athletic level for whatever it is you are doing. So when you try to force optimal mechanics and you don't have the required adaptions for it, you do significantly worse than your normal technique.

But imo if you keep trying to perform with optimal mechanics, you are hitting your limiting factor every time! For example, im not very good at top speed, my top speed running is quad dominant. If I continue running with my quad dominant form, my weaker p-chain +elastic strength is not being stressed enough and continue to lag behind. However when I switch to good cycling technique even though it is much less efficient for me because of my characteristics, I optimize my training to improve what is holding me back. (Simplified example)

Your point about injuries is a good one and I think progression should be extremely careful and gradual for changing mechanics. It could take months or years to get your limiting factor up to scratch and could be risky because you don't know how gradual this progression should be. But if you keep doing whatever with "personalized/suboptimal" form you will never live up to your potential and eventually hit a plateau that will be even more difficult to overcome because you've learned the wrong movement pattern so well.

Granted this doesn't apply to everything but stuff like sprinting, some jumps, change of direction where there's a clear superior form could benefit from optimizing mechanics imo

I definitely agree with you when it comes to weights. In this video this high school strength and conditioning coach emphasies about the importance of learning the correct technique of lifting before progressing with the weights.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2vnFpWCBQg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2vnFpWCBQg</a>

ya weights are a slightly different animal .. I agree more-so for weights too. I disagree when it comes to things like "squat depth" and such, I think that's where this circles back around. So, natural "mechanics" for squatting, would be more related to hitting a comfortable depth without everything breaking down, and other joint angles/musculature being compromised in order to support a depth you shouldn't be hitting under load. So, for most "form related lifting" components, ya, we should definitely have a strong stable posture in every lift, and not compromise that posture in order to lift more weight. So, I think if you look at form from that perspective, the idea of maintaining a strong, stable posture along some range of motion using light weight, and not allowing it to become compromised as weight gets heavier, i think you can address all "form" based on that. As for range of motion, I think it basically boils down to the same thing as stated previously .. ie, I can't barely go below parallel on squat with an empty bar, it's easier for me to do so with a heavy load, because it can force me down .. However, I feel much safer going down to the depth that I hit with the empty bar, when it's loaded. If I try to go deeper with an empty bar, everything falls apart.

So yeah, for lifting form is definitely important BUT, I think it comes down to a few principles and not necessarily a "you need to squat like <insert lifter here>", which is what we see in running/jumping/sprinting etc: No you need to look like <insert sprinter here>, you need to jump like <insert dunker here>. When like you said below, there's a ton of variety and man, when it comes to elite dunkers, their jumps/plants pretty much all look so very different. Dunk-jumpers are such a great example of variations at the elite level, IMHO. They get no instruction usually, just go out and jump/dunk alot. So you end up seeing all kinds of run ups, plants, arm swing, joint angles, etc. These people, without coaching, hit some insane vert and most of them do it differently. Obviously they are elite, but it's just interesting to think of it this way; the lack of coaching.

It can be somewhat similar in the NFL combine tests. The guys that do have track & field experience, look absolutely ridiculous. Beautiful technique. But you also have people without T&F experience, who are just monsters and tear up the turf in their 40 etc, with comparable times. I'd be curious to see how many of these guys did track in H.S., not college, could be more than I think.

Quote
I disagree when it comes to running though. I wish T0oday still posted but he made a lot of posts about sprinters with awful techniques that still had incredibly fast times. Speed is power to weight ratio. Top speed is often considered genetic but it can be improved by working on your top speed through drills and building speed endurance. Running is natural. It's best not to overthink it. Keep it simple. By all means use a few ques like keeping your head straight and chin slightly down and arms relaxed but there's no need to over analyse. Effort>technique. If you run 200m tempos your body is naturally going to find the most efficient way for you to run and achieve the times with the least effort. That's building technique. I know my explanation is shit and I can't word it that good but focus on putting in the work, running high intensity, and building up your work capacity and that will make you achieve far greater than a smaller workload with more emphasis placed on technique.

Your explanation definitely wasn't shit, loved it, especially this line: "If you run 200m tempos your body is naturally going to find the most efficient way for you to run and achieve the times with the least effort. That's building technique."

The idea about the body "finding the most efficient way for you to <insert activity here>" is basically the meat of this whole convo. That's where I was successful with jumping (DLRVJ for dunking), and that's where I wrecked myself with running & am now trying to forget every ridiculous thing that I put, or someone else put, into my head.

For me personally, I may actually never give anyone technique advice on running/sprinting/jumping ever again .. I RARELY ever do it in the first place .. but what i'm getting at is, if I did give someone advice, the idea that they could be thinking about it all the time when they are jumping/running/sprinting etc, bothers me to death. I'd rather not have that on my conscious.

I'm not sure if it's just me or what?? But I guess I just miss having a completely clear mind... I'm hoping to get it back. Feels like i'm trying to exorcise demons............ lmfao. :ninja:

peace!!!

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7345 on: September 21, 2017, 06:37:51 pm »
+2
wanted to post this separately:

I find it incredibly interesting how I wasn't vulnerable at all to "jumping technique advice", but somehow I am more vulnerable to "running/sprinting technique advice" .. yet, i'm much more natural at running than jumping. Doesn't make sense to me tbh. When I was running during boxing years, I didn't think about technique at all. I ran mostly to improve my conditioning for boxing, so I didn't really look into it in depth, I didn't overanalyze etc. I just ran hard/easy pretty much every day. So after some time off from dunking, coming back to running, I really turned to overanalysis:

- nose breathing
- breathing in general
- how i hold my hands
- how i strike my foot (mid or forefoot)
- how hard/soft/quiet/loud i strike the ground
- how i extend hip
- how i cycle my trail leg
- how i swing my arms
- stride frequency alterations, even running on a metronome LMFAO
- stride length alterations
- body lean
- sticking chest out
- all kinds of shoe experimentation .. bruh, my xc flats are where it's at.
- surface types (i guess that's an ok experimentation tho)

dno if i think of any more manual technique alterations i'll edit.

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7346 on: September 21, 2017, 11:29:14 pm »
0
FRIDAY = REST DAY.



09/21/2017

bw = 148
:wowthatwasnutswtf: :wowthatwasnutswtf: :wowthatwasnutswtf:
soreness = moderate: hamstrings, chest, lats, middle back, upper back
- lmao
aches/injuries = spot on left side of left foot acting weird at times, mid back tight at times, ankles/left achilles slightly
morning quad flexibility = stiff
morning hamstring flexibility = stiff
feel = ok

wakeup = 7:30 AM

diet:
- 7:30 AM: water w/ lemon
- 8 AM: workout: bw
- 8:30 AM: workout: walk/light run
- 10:30 AM: water + protein
- 12 PM: whole foods: very berry smoothie with whey protein, mochi ball, peach / ginger green tea
- 3:30 PM: jalapenos, grilled chicken, 2 x avocado, prickly pear cactus water, coconut water out of the can to cool my mouth from the jalapenos
-- OMFG, love cactus water
- 6 PM: cactus water
- 8 PM: workout: light speed
- 9:30 PM: water + protein
- 10 PM: 4 x grape fruit, 2 x banana, 1 x enormous avocado, cactus water
-- such a great meal ..  :wowthatwasnutswtf:
- 11 PM: water w/ lemon






stretch:
- 10 PM: soleus alot, during dishes
- everything before bed



bw:
- 8 AM
- 3-sec dead hang ng pullups: BW x 9
- full dips: BW x 8
- chest/lats felt dead after



very light run:
- 8:30 AM
- 2 mile walk, very light 4 mile run (9:02, 10:06, 10:23, 11:11)
- lol


bw:
- forgot



workout: light speed, working on ~5 min/mi pacing

https://www.strava.com/activities/1195456092/laps

part 1: sidewalk speed: working on relaxed sub 5 pace: 25 x ~100m with 10m fly in
part 2: sidewalk speed: working on relaxed sub 5 pace: 3 x ~250m with 10m fly

just working on trying to just hit a very relaxed sub 5 pace.

had to reset my watch, max lap limit.





decent session .. tried to just stay very relaxed while also hitting those paces. went ok .. did jog back recovery after a while, walk back recovery was too easy. Should have done jog back from the beginning, will do that in the future! In better condition now, so really light jog makes the workout move along faster too.




Going to try a new style of progress tracker: monthly, embedded into my journal posts. Obviously this should be something fancy/amazing by now but, will make do with this. Also, going to go "across" rather than down, so it all fits into one small block.

TBH, I really like this so far.. even though I only have a few data points thus far. :D

September (09) 2017

Bodyweight: [(1,155), (2,156), (3,155), (4,154), (5,153), (6,153), (7,152), (8,152), (9,153), (11,153), (12,152), (13,151), (14,149), (15,149),(16,150),(17,151),(18,149),(19,150),(20,148),(21,148)]

Total Jumps per leg: [(2,90),(15,50),(20,50)]
- per leg total: 190

Max SLRVJ Touch: [(2,10'4"),(15,10'5"),(20,10'3")]
- L-SLRVJ: 10'5"
- R-SLRVJ: ?

Total miles walked: [(3,14.06),(5,9.2),(6,6.3),(6,9.5),(7,6.3),(12,6.3),(13,3)]
- total: 75.9 (eek lmfao)
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/15
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Total walk time: [(3,4:01:29),(5,2:20:00),(6,1:30:00),(6,2:21:00),(12,2:06:00]
- total: 15h:39m:xxs
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/15
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Total speed interval distance: [(2,2500m),(9,1432m),(11,1609m),(17, 3150m),(17,2607m),(19,4400m),(20,]
- total: 20691m
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/12
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Max run speed (mph)/pace (min/mi): [(2,16.6,3:31),(7,14.1,4:15),(9,13.4,4:28),(11,13.7,4:23),(12,16.3,?),(13,14.5,4:09),(15,14.5,4:09),(17,15.8,3:47),(19,15.3,3:55),(20,12.4,4:50)]
- TODO: 9/21

Total jump rope time: [(4,60m)]
- total: 60m

Total jump rope messups: [(4,12)]
- total: 13

Resting HR: [(3,32,45,40),(18,22,46,39)]
- (day,minutes,avg,low)

PR's: []

Races: []

Soreness: [(3,"very sore","hamstrings,adductors,shoulders,upper back,quads"), (4,"very sore", "hamstrings,adductors,shoulders,upper back"),(5,"extremely sore", "hamstrings,calves,shoulders,tibs/peroneals,feet"),(6,"very sore","shoulders,hamstrings,adductors,calves,tibs,peroneals,feet"),(7,"slightly sore","shoulders,hamstrings,calves,feet,quads"),(8,"slightly sore","hamstrings,feet,quads"),(9,"slightly sore","hamstrings,quads,calves,feet"),(11,"none","none"),(12,"none","none"),(13,"none","none"),(14,"moderately sore","quads moderate, hamstrings slightly"),(16,"moderate","quads slightly, hamstrings moderate, chest slightly, tib ants slightly, shoulders slightly"),(17,"moderate","quads slightly, hamstrings moderate, tibs/peroneals moderate"),(18,"moderate","hamstrings,calves"),(19,"slightly","hamstrings"),(20,"none","none"),(21,"moderate","moderate: hamstrings, chest, lats, middle back, upper back")]

Morning Quad Flexibility: [(14,"stiff"),(15,"loose"),(16,"very stiff"),(17,"loose"),(18,"stiff"),(19,"loose"),(20,"stiff"),(21,"stiff")]

Morning Hamstring Flexibility:[ [(14,"stiff"),(15,"loose"),(16,"very stiff"),(17,"stiff"),(18,"stiff"),(19,"stiff"),(20,"stiff"),(21,"stiff")]

Wakeup: [(4,11:00 AM, 9),(5,6:00 AM, 5),(6,5:45 AM, 7.5),(7, 8:30 AM, 9,(8, 7:30 AM, 7),(9, 8:00 AM, 7),(11, 8:30 AM, 8),(12, 8:30 AM, 9),(13, 7:30 AM, 9),(14 9 AM,9),(15, 6:30 AM, 7),(16, 7:30 AM, 8),(17, 9 AM, 8.5),(18, 9 AM, 9),(19, 7:30 AM, 8),(20, 8 AM, 8),(21, 7:30 AM, 8)]
- (day, wakeup time, hours slept)

Aches/Injuries: [(6,"right achilles area slightly"),(7,"left heel barely"),(8,"feet slightly"),(9,"shins slightly"),(11,"none"),(12,"none"),(13,"shins slightly"),(14,"none"),(15,"left achilles slightly - briefly"),(16,"none"),(17,"none"),(18,"none"),(19,"old left hamstring pull area"),(20,"left foot bone hurting in the morning"),(21,"spot on left side of left foot acting weird at times, mid back tight at times, ankles/left achilles slightly")]

FP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 909
  • Respect: +777
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7347 on: September 22, 2017, 02:25:48 pm »
+1
I disagree when it comes to running though. I wish T0oday still posted but he made a lot of posts about sprinters with awful techniques that still had incredibly fast times. Speed is power to weight ratio. Top speed is often considered genetic but it can be improved by working on your top speed through drills and building speed endurance. Running is natural. It's best not to overthink it. Keep it simple. By all means use a few ques like keeping your head straight and chin slightly down and arms relaxed but there's no need to over analyse. Effort>technique. If you run 200m tempos your body is naturally going to find the most efficient way for you to run and achieve the times with the least effort. That's building technique. I know my explanation is shit and I can't word it that good but focus on putting in the work, running high intensity, and building up your work capacity and that will make you achieve far greater than a smaller workload with more emphasis placed on technique.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you can still get incredibly fast with imperfect mechanics. But even someone like Bolt who runs with a loose upper body and has a poor start where he drives his knees improperly I believe still has great and maybe even exceptional mechanics in other areas. Just because he is the fastest in the world doesn't mean he couldn't benefit from hitting his limiting factors hard like his upper body stability and working out the issues with his form. He originally had bad all-around form but you might have heard how his coach pretty much completely rebuilt his form, which is exactly the sort of transformation I'm talking about:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/usain-bolt-worlds-fastest-man/0/glen-mills-the-man-behind-usain-bolts-record-shattering-career/
Quote
After a disappointing showing at the Athens Olympics, crashing out of the heats in the 200m, Bolt sought out Mills as the man who might enable him to finally fulfil his youthful promise. Mills was well aware of Bolt’s natural ability, but also of his poor technique - a backwards running style and lack of core strength triggering a series of hamstring problems. He undertook a two year project of pulling apart the sprinter’s technique, painstakingly breaking his bad habits, and then reassembling it all into today’s world-beating form. It was a repetitive and challenging process, often requiring hours of video analysis to help correct the minutiae of Bolt’s individual race stages.
There's a more detailed article about it somewhere this is just the one I found right away.

I think we agree to some extent though because you are saying to use drills and cues are acceptable strategies and I think they are great strategies and really the whole point I was making was to use cues to improve form. I don't sprint as much as I would like but when I ran track my form was still bad even though I was running a lot. If I "run naturally" I don't cycle my legs at all, I just kind of drive my knees forward which takes away the hamstring stretch reflex you are supposed to get with good form. Your form might improve a bit with high volume but I don't think you can reach your potential peak form without doing a lot of stuff to improve your technique especially if it is bad to begin with. Ideally you would do both: lot of high intensity running + a lot of technique work.





For sure. I think the big question though is, whether or not someone can truly spot inefficiencies in their mechanics and do the right drills to correct them. This is where I think most of it falls apart. Getting instruction from coaches with incredible amounts of experience, and perhaps having things analyzed in a performance lab, are probably good steps .. actually, more so for coach, less so for performance lab. Performance labs in universities for example, have lots of "brainiacs" but perhaps not the proper levels of actual experience, correcting technique/movements for real athletes. But legitimate coaches with impressive histories, probably are the highest up on my list. Though, you may still get advice which is aimed at "turning you into someone else", turning you into athletes they are more familiar working with.

To my first point, I imagine scoob is telling his girl to get her knees up etc .. I can picture someone forcing their knees up while running, and just wrecking their mechanics. I've seen people do this IRL, it looks absolutely insane. For some reason, they are convinced that forcing their knees up is the right thing to do. I once did something similar with cycling my trail leg, I forced it, stupid idea. The best way to get your trail leg to cycle better, is to go faster. The best way to get your knees up, is to go faster. The best way to get your shoulders/arms pumping, is to go faster. etc.

As for your quad dominant top speed mechanics, does manually focusing on your cycling technique help more than primetime sprints (stiff leg bounds) etc? You've done all kinds of things, so I imagine you know best. But, I think before people resort to form changes, they should try and focus on doing the activity more (in most cases), but also incorporate assistance exercises aimed at strengthening those weaknesses, without having to manually think about them during the actual movement. I mean, that's the route *I prefer*. Sometimes you just have to focus on something to fix it, there's all kinds of specific cases so there's lots of caveats.

I agree, it's really tough to figure out what technique fixes you need to make for your specific body type+characteristics. You would need a great coach. But there are hella videos on YT of top-of-the-line coaches explaining common technique issues.

Yeah I think I should sprint more before working in technique stuff. The assistance exercises are an exceptional tool (most likely the best tool) and probably better for avoiding injury but like you said it can be hard to figure out what exactly is holding you back/the problems with your mechanics and how exactly to fix it cause you have to take into account stuff like : joint angles, speed of movement, direction the force is applied. Supertraining "Dynamic correspondence of strength training". I'm not sure just doing basic strengthening is an effective approach unless you are a novice.

I think forcing your knees up can be a bad cue if the ideas behind it aren't understood which might be the case with scoobs gf:
-one of the reasons for it is because after lifting your knee up you extend at the hamstring, giving you a greater stretch reflex
-focusing on driving your knee helps emphasize front-side mechanics which is good for "strength runners" who have long GCT and lower stride frequency that kind of drag their foot behind them and do a butt kick in the recovery phase and end up with poor cycling. Dan Pfaff and Jonas Dodoo talk about this a lot

Quote
Also, as for your quad dominant top speed mechanics, there's also the possible scenario that continuing to use that technique for many years, the hamstrings/glutes would still catch up because of the speed improvements over time. ie, you might hit your ceiling with natural form, but then if you just keep hammering it, you may get more contribution from p-chain since you're hitting higher speeds at your ceiling. You would know better than me though that's for sure.

This is hard to say, cause it's such a unrealistic hypothetical situation. But I think if you don't cycle properly like me with my quad-dominant form, you are getting very little contribution from the hamstring stretch reflex I mentioned and If I kept running with my form the disbalance would get larger if my form didn't change at all. But my form would change, just very slowly and inefficiently so you're probably right. I still think just running with optimal form to begin with is more effective at the cost of you being slower for the first few weeks/months as you adapt to it.

« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 02:28:58 pm by Final Phenom »

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7348 on: September 22, 2017, 09:53:14 pm »
0
full rest today.

Got some compression shorts for running/sprinting .. going to try em out. They feel pretty good, just hope they aren't too small.  :ninja: :ninja:

some rib in my right back has been bugging all day.. may have stretch my right rear delt to hard, when i twisted into it a little. lame. stupid.



09/22/2017

bw = 147
:wowthatwasnutswtf: :wowthatwasnutswtf: :wowthatwasnutswtf:
soreness = none
aches/injuries = spot on left side of left foot acting weird rarely, slight pain in a rib on my right side
morning quad flexibility = stiff
morning hamstring flexibility = stiff
feel = ok

wakeup = 9 AM
- :pissed:
- slept in

diet:
- 10 AM: 2 x sunny side up eggs + 2 x san fransisco sourdough bread, 2 x fried banana, sweet green tea
- 11 AM: water w/ lemon
- 1 PM: some lemon/turmeric drink, was real good
- 6 PM: chicken pita with tzatziki from a greek spot, water w/ lemon
-- pretty good!
- 9 PM: 4 x banana, avocado, water w/ lemon




stretch:
- 1 PM: soleus alot, during dishes
- 1:30 PM: everything after shower
- 10 PM: everything before bed



Going to try a new style of progress tracker: monthly, embedded into my journal posts. Obviously this should be something fancy/amazing by now but, will make do with this. Also, going to go "across" rather than down, so it all fits into one small block.

TBH, I really like this so far.. even though I only have a few data points thus far. :D

September (09) 2017

Bodyweight: [(1,155), (2,156), (3,155), (4,154), (5,153), (6,153), (7,152), (8,152), (9,153), (11,153), (12,152), (13,151), (14,149), (15,149),(16,150),(17,151),(18,149),(19,150),(20,148),(21,148),(22,147)]

Total Jumps per leg: [(2,90),(15,50),(20,50)]
- per leg total: 190

Max SLRVJ Touch: [(2,10'4"),(15,10'5"),(20,10'3")]
- L-SLRVJ: 10'5"
- R-SLRVJ: ?

Total miles walked: [(3,14.06),(5,9.2),(6,6.3),(6,9.5),(7,6.3),(12,6.3),(13,3)]
- total: 75.9 (eek lmfao)
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/15
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Total walk time: [(3,4:01:29),(5,2:20:00),(6,1:30:00),(6,2:21:00),(12,2:06:00]
- total: 15h:39m:xxs
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/15
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Total speed interval distance: [(2,2500m),(9,1432m),(11,1609m),(17, 3150m),(17,2607m),(19,4400m),(20,]
- total: 20691m
- TODO: 9/7
- TODO: 9/12
- TODO: 9/16
- TODO: 9/21

Max run speed (mph)/pace (min/mi): [(2,16.6,3:31),(7,14.1,4:15),(9,13.4,4:28),(11,13.7,4:23),(12,16.3,?),(13,14.5,4:09),(15,14.5,4:09),(17,15.8,3:47),(19,15.3,3:55),(20,12.4,4:50)]
- TODO: 9/21

Total jump rope time: [(4,60m)]
- total: 60m

Total jump rope messups: [(4,12)]
- total: 13

Resting HR: [(3,32,45,40),(18,22,46,39)]
- (day,minutes,avg,low)

PR's: []

Races: []

Soreness: [(3,"very sore","hamstrings,adductors,shoulders,upper back,quads"), (4,"very sore", "hamstrings,adductors,shoulders,upper back"),(5,"extremely sore", "hamstrings,calves,shoulders,tibs/peroneals,feet"),(6,"very sore","shoulders,hamstrings,adductors,calves,tibs,peroneals,feet"),(7,"slightly sore","shoulders,hamstrings,calves,feet,quads"),(8,"slightly sore","hamstrings,feet,quads"),(9,"slightly sore","hamstrings,quads,calves,feet"),(11,"none","none"),(12,"none","none"),(13,"none","none"),(14,"moderately sore","quads moderate, hamstrings slightly"),(16,"moderate","quads slightly, hamstrings moderate, chest slightly, tib ants slightly, shoulders slightly"),(17,"moderate","quads slightly, hamstrings moderate, tibs/peroneals moderate"),(18,"moderate","hamstrings,calves"),(19,"slightly","hamstrings"),(20,"none","none"),(21,"moderate","moderate: hamstrings, chest, lats, middle back, upper back"),(22,"none","none")]

Morning Quad Flexibility: [(14,"stiff"),(15,"loose"),(16,"very stiff"),(17,"loose"),(18,"stiff"),(19,"loose"),(20,"stiff"),(21,"stiff"),(22,"stiff")]

Morning Hamstring Flexibility:[ [(14,"stiff"),(15,"loose"),(16,"very stiff"),(17,"stiff"),(18,"stiff"),(19,"stiff"),(20,"stiff"),(21,"stiff"),(22,"stiff")]

Wakeup: [(4,11:00 AM, 9),(5,6:00 AM, 5),(6,5:45 AM, 7.5),(7, 8:30 AM, 9,(8, 7:30 AM, 7),(9, 8:00 AM, 7),(11, 8:30 AM, 8),(12, 8:30 AM, 9),(13, 7:30 AM, 9),(14 9 AM,9),(15, 6:30 AM, 7),(16, 7:30 AM, 8),(17, 9 AM, 8.5),(18, 9 AM, 9),(19, 7:30 AM, 8),(20, 8 AM, 8),(21, 7:30 AM, 8),(22, 9 AM, 9)]
- (day, wakeup time, hours slept)

Aches/Injuries: [(6,"right achilles area slightly"),(7,"left heel barely"),(8,"feet slightly"),(9,"shins slightly"),(11,"none"),(12,"none"),(13,"shins slightly"),(14,"none"),(15,"left achilles slightly - briefly"),(16,"none"),(17,"none"),(18,"none"),(19,"old left hamstring pull area"),(20,"left foot bone hurting in the morning"),(21,"spot on left side of left foot acting weird at times, mid back tight at times, ankles/left achilles slightly"),(22,"spot on left side of left foot acting weird rarely, slight pain in a rib on my right side")]

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12841
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +7949
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: ADARQ's journal
« Reply #7349 on: September 23, 2017, 06:49:36 am »
+1
fully admit that i have not been following the mechanics conversation closely. but every time i see a "he could be better if just fixed X or Y" in reference to a truly elite athlete, my instinct is to roll my eyes. usain bolt is the fastest person in recorded history. there is no telling what "fixing" any aspect of his form would do. maybe he starts the way he does or holds his upper body the way he does because to do otherwise would lead to injury or be uncomfortable and slow him down in some way we can't be aware of. it's hard to argue that he hasn't maxed out on his talent: he won almost every race he entered for nine years and set two huge world records!

just like people who bitched about randy moss smoking weed. he was the greatest of all time! if he hadn't smoked weed, maybe he'd have gotten fed up with football and quit! weed sure didn't slow him down as he was streaking past safeties like they were standing still!

pet peeve.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter