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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4650 on: January 17, 2019, 09:05:30 pm »
+3
Was informed today im expected to play the 4 position. This is not great news .. i was prepping to play as a lean athletic 85kg. Not sure I can even play as a PF without being undersized. Any advice?

What's the general competition like at the 4? When I've played the 4 and 5 are still relatively short (6-6'5) so being a lean 85 would not be so much of an issue. If you're looking at the 6'6-6'9 range then yeah you might need some more cushion for the pushin

Not that much taller than that. But most guys would be 90-110kg range and average around 95kg i'd say. Also im pretty bad at pushing ppl out, i know that's prob a leverage thing .. but it could be my upper body being too weak. Dont have a clue what im doing in the post either lol.

imo boxing out is all leg and hip strength so you should be golden. If you get your leg across in front of them and push your hips (bum) back into them they simply can't jump over you. I normally play at 90kgs and I just go super aggressive on the boards. It's surprising how many guys just expect to be able to get rebounds.

Post play sucks. First thing is most guards hate giving it to you in the post so that's the biggest battle. You only really need 2/3 moves max though. A turn around jumper, a drop step and then a turn and face move. I like the turn and face then either a straight up bank shot or the pump fake 1 dribble lay-up/dish. A guy I used to play with had the best drop step spin. 9/10 he would go baseline with 1 dribble and finish over the help. I'm making it sound way more simple than it is though haha.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4651 on: January 17, 2019, 09:30:41 pm »
0
imo boxing out is all leg and hip strength so you should be golden. If you get your leg across in front of them and push your hips (bum) back into them they simply can't jump over you. I normally play at 90kgs and I just go super aggressive on the boards. It's surprising how many guys just expect to be able to get rebounds.

Good stuff! Can you go more into the strategy of being super aggressive? I find when the shot goes up im just watching the ball thru space while it makes it way to the rim. It's like my legs find that to be the best time to sneak a bit of rest while the ball is up in the air  :uhhhfacepalm: that's part of being super unfit for basketball so i know i have terrible habits of conserving energy but i know it's a bad one. This is a new realisation too  :uhhhfacepalm:

Quote
Post play sucks. First thing is most guards hate giving it to you in the post so that's the biggest battle.
As someone who 'thinks' like a guard but happens to be too tall to play one, i think they're not willing to put that pass to the ground when what they think is a bad situation (in their mind a guy turned away from the basket with a guy right on top of him while both are stationary is a bad decision because they're a guard and to them a good situation is having the offensive player moving while there is some space between the defender and they can see daylight. Guards are just fucking stupid though, it's the ultimate projecting what is good for you but not necessarily good for someone else.). Last week at pickup I was literally posting up on a guy who was too slow and weak to guard me in the post and im all but begging for the ball but the guards are like nah it's better in my hands than his. lol.

Quote
You only really need 2/3 moves max though. A turn around jumper, a drop step and then a turn and face move. I like the turn and face then either a straight up bank shot or the pump fake 1 dribble lay-up/dish. A guy I used to play with had the best drop step spin. 9/10 he would go baseline with 1 dribble and finish over the help. I'm making it sound way more simple than it is though haha.
Yeah agree. I want to work on my spin off the defender with a nice amount of contact to make space because that's something i can pull off with my length and speed against someone relatively heavier, bigger and slower. The problem is as you describe even getting the ball in teh frist place
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4652 on: January 17, 2019, 11:02:10 pm »
+2
Bodyweight(AM): 86.3kg (18 Jan)
Diet compliance: 3/3 days
Daily Squat: 62/62 days
Daily Run: 62/62 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
  TM Run 6km, 46 mins 

Noon:
  BS 6x120, 1x157.5, 12x130(PR)

Evening:
  


Notes:
  • Every morning run i swear this is the last one, im done running. lol
  • Well thanks to the kids at the gym today for the inspiration. They were goofing around like kids do and it just annoyed me (which i embraced) and channeled my anger at getting firstly a heavy single of 157.5kg (wish i had gone for 160kg tbh to equal my lifetime raw PR) but especially the 130kg one. This isn't sustainable, i wont be able to find that kind of inspiration every time but today a)i needed it, b)it was there). Im finding it hard to just turn on the intensity like i'd been able to til now. Now i need to find it externally. At least today I did. 
« Last Edit: January 18, 2019, 04:51:18 am by maxent »
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4653 on: January 18, 2019, 02:25:11 am »
+2
these long slow runs are building the base for heavier efforts. just like light squats to build the base for heavy reps.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4654 on: January 18, 2019, 04:48:07 am »
+2
these long slow runs are building the base for heavier efforts. just like light squats to build the base for heavy reps.

beautiful analogy. agreed!
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4655 on: January 18, 2019, 09:31:33 pm »
+2
Bodyweight(AM): 85.9kg (19 Jan)
Diet compliance: 4/4 days
Daily Squat: 63/63 days
Daily Cardio: 63/63 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
  

Noon:
  BS 6x120, 1x160(=PR), 15x120(PR)

Evening:
 Pickup bball ~ 1/2 court, ~1.5 hours  


Notes:
  • So with 10 days left of this weight gain phase im not sure what i want to end up. Maybe <87.5kg? <87kg? Not sure. Lets just eat to recover and deal with whatever i end up weighing.
  • been feeling really blue today .. didn't sleep much, just low. i went for a 160kg max and got it, on a better day i prob would have got it easier than how hard i made it look. All good.
  • Went hard in bball .. and skipped running in the morning, was a fkn 41 degree celcius day, yea no thanks. Change of template: daily running -> daily cardio will allow such substitutes from here
  • I had a big chocolate waffle cone after bball with a friend and bought some subway cookies on the way home to eat for dessert lol. The cone was literally melting too fast for me to eat, dm/dt > de/dt was crazy hot. Only 10 days of weight gain and i didn't get to eat enough but ate junk, what a waste. It's the worst choice, just get softer but not stronger or harder. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2019, 10:35:32 pm by maxent »
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4656 on: January 19, 2019, 10:05:17 pm »
+1
Bodyweight(AM): 85.8kg (20 Jan)
Diet compliance: 0/0 days
Daily Squat: 64/64 days
Daily Cardio: 64/64 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
  

Noon:
  BS 6x120, 1x155, 3x112.5(lol)  

Evening:
  Run 5.5km, 41:40, 07:30/km pace  


Notes:
  • Didn't get to eat properly yesterday so reset the counter. 9 days remaining of surplus. Feeling pretty beat up from basketball but that's to be expected.  Another 40 degree day(cue stringer bell), not sure i'll run. Maybe something ez in the evening if it gets cooler. 
  • The crossfit couple was training next to me today.  killed my buzz again. lol. I did the single and was going to go for a 21 rep PR with 112.5kg .. waited like 10 minutes then 15 minutes then 20 minutes for them to finish their crossfit workout. finally realised it wasn't gna happen and just went for it and 3 reps in i realised id gone cold and today was a write off.
  • Basically we dont have bumper plates at the gym. They're colour coded like bumpers but they're hard plastic (polyuthrane iirc). These geniuses were dropping them from overhead and it made a loud bang. It didn't clue them in that they had double collared each side of their bars .. maybe just maybe this would lead them to reconsider but idk. Jackasses.
  • I went for an evening run. It was probably the first proper slow run ive ever done. And im glad Andrew and LBSS convinced me to do them cos i prob would stop running altogether because of how hard training/recovery is atm and yet something like this is easy to fit and do regardless of whatever is going on in life. It's not forever, eventually i'll have the luxury to do faster running, whenever that will be, i dont know.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2019, 08:01:14 am by maxent »
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4657 on: January 20, 2019, 05:44:21 pm »
+1
Good stuff! Can you go more into the strategy of being super aggressive? I find when the shot goes up im just watching the ball thru space while it makes it way to the rim. It's like my legs find that to be the best time to sneak a bit of rest while the ball is up in the air  :uhhhfacepalm: that's part of being super unfit for basketball so i know i have terrible habits of conserving energy but i know it's a bad one. This is a new realisation too  :uhhhfacepalm:

Haha I know exactly what you mean. Watching the shot is ok but you need to find a body. Create some body contact and get in front or besides someone. With your reach and your vert you should be able to out rebound most guys. Also most guys are horrible at boxing out and will hate when the pressure is put on them. Even if you can’t complete the rebound just try and keep the ball alive on offense or clear it on defence.

As someone who 'thinks' like a guard but happens to be too tall to play one, i think they're not willing to put that pass to the ground when what they think is a bad situation (in their mind a guy turned away from the basket with a guy right on top of him while both are stationary is a bad decision because they're a guard and to them a good situation is having the offensive player moving while there is some space between the defender and they can see daylight. Guards are just fucking stupid though, it's the ultimate projecting what is good for you but not necessarily good for someone else.). Last week at pickup I was literally posting up on a guy who was too slow and weak to guard me in the post and im all but begging for the ball but the guards are like nah it's better in my hands than his. lol.

When I played at my highest level I was a no. 3 swingman and played that slashing/cutting role. I would sometimes have to post but I still think that movement is best even for a 4 or 5. Low to high/high to low/wing to wing/etc. Seems to get their attention a little more. Still sucks though and if they don’t want to give it to you then you’re stuck. The other thing I do when I play with guys like that is to set on the ball screens so they have to move and make a play. Then roll or pop and give them options. This is also why I play so aggressively on the boards as that gives me control over some of my own shots.

Yeah agree. I want to work on my spin off the defender with a nice amount of contact to make space because that's something i can pull off with my length and speed against someone relatively heavier, bigger and slower. The problem is as you describe even getting the ball in teh frist place

Yep. It’s an ongoing battle.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4658 on: January 20, 2019, 09:38:30 pm »
+3
Lately i've been watching Ben Simmons play. He will drive into the middle and then just turn his back while still driving and backing down his defender and then make a move to score. I think i can kinda do that but not sure how it would against a zone, probably need pretty decent handles to do it without picking up my dribble and come in on an angle . Been trying to practice a little in pickup but the (really shit) guards hold the ball too much so i don't get much practice. Plus they won't give me the ball at the top cos they think i should be inside to collect their rebounds instead :). It's only recently i've realised you have to treat the guards like they're children and just out-alpha them and demand the ball from them at all times, til they earn their your respect and can handle it more. I think i need a pass first guard because im a pass first forward so the ball moving around is my ideal thing because it's not going to die in my hands but it usually does in theirs. Like i'd happily pass the ball back to the same guard who just passed it to me, even straight away just to keep the ball flowing.  Really weird but power games are everywhere in life you don't get to opt out just because of some belief in equality lol. Guards and forwards aren't equals, we look down on them  :wowthatwasnutswtf:

I think i understand what kind of player you are, the bouncy rebound magnet close to the rim. Im not that guy. Even when i can outreach the defenders around me for rebounds for put backs (not dunks) i seldom finish them cleanly cos it's just so unnatural to me to play that role. But nowadays i try to be more patient and get the defender to bite and just finish with some contact but moving for a clean shot. It seems to open up my game to have a bit more patience and just go against my natural instincts and im enjoying that growth so far.

I need to be more aggressive but i just don't wanna seem aggressive. Is that possible?


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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4659 on: January 20, 2019, 09:40:35 pm »
0
Bodyweight(AM): 85.7kg (21 Jan)
Diet compliance: 1/1 days
Daily Squat: 65/65 days
Daily Cardio: 65/65 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
  

Noon:
  BS 6x120, 1x155
  OHP 5x60, 5x57.5, 8x55
  BX 11x85B(PR)

Evening:
  Slow run - 5.21km, 35:49, 06:52/km pace  


Notes:
  • Going to try do an upper body workout today if the body is willing
  • Another bad squat day smh. the funny guy with the beard from the hangover was using the rack i usually use. Technically he wasn't even using it, just outside the rack doing 60kg deadlifts between 30kg bench and cable row complexes .. so another wasted workout. And to add insult to injury cos i used the other rack, my form was wack and im pretty sure the depth of my 155kg was suspect but it felt ridiculously easy that i could have repped it. Not that i would care because it didn't feel like a honest rep. The PT have scribbled advertising copy all over the mirror infront of this rack and it throws off my form as does just everything else feeling different. I might have even scrubbed it out but the manager guy who already doesn't like me (i get the feeling b/c on my first day at the gym i walked in flipflops and he had a go at me saying do you have shoes? i told him i did and since then we've been aloof with each other because it was completely unprovoked for him to not just wait a few minutes to see if i was going to train in flipflops). today he would just take the opportunity to start an argument if i wiped off the mirror, so i wasn't feeling like it was worth it today.  After that i thought id wait til my usual rack got free and he did eventually move on but by then i'd gone cold and just couldnt be bothered anymore. I had a good run until recently and now i just cant string together 2 good days of training ha
  • And just in case i needed the reminder, got some casual racism today .. must be australia day weekend coming up..
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 09:45:19 am by maxent »
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4660 on: January 20, 2019, 10:02:13 pm »
+1
Lately i've been watching Ben Simmons play. He will drive into the middle and then just turn his back while still driving and backing down his defender and then make a move to score. I think i can kinda do that but not sure how it would against a zone, probably need pretty decent handles to do it without picking up my dribble and come in on an angle . Been trying to practice a little in pickup but the (really shit) guards hold the ball too much so i don't get much practice. Plus they won't give me the ball at the top cos they think i should be inside to collect their rebounds instead :). It's only recently i've realised you have to treat the guards like they're children and just out-alpha them and demand the ball from them at all times, til they earn their your respect and can handle it more. I think i need a pass first guard because im a pass first forward so the ball moving around is my ideal thing because it's not going to die in my hands but it usually does in theirs. Like i'd happily pass the ball back to the same guard who just passed it to me, even straight away just to keep the ball flowing.  Really weird but power games are everywhere in life you don't get to opt out just because of some belief in equality lol. Guards and forwards aren't equals, we look down on them  :wowthatwasnutswtf:

I think i understand what kind of player you are, the bouncy rebound magnet close to the rim. Im not that guy. Even when i can outreach the defenders around me for rebounds for put backs (not dunks) i seldom finish them cleanly cos it's just so unnatural to me to play that role. But nowadays i try to be more patient and get the defender to bite and just finish with some contact but moving for a clean shot. It seems to open up my game to have a bit more patience and just go against my natural instincts and im enjoying that growth so far.

I need to be more aggressive but i just don't wanna seem aggressive. Is that possible?

My play honestly depends on how fit I am. Fairly out of shape like right now I'll stay close to the rim or even be lazy and hang on the outside for a few possession to get my breath back. Fully fit and I'm more of that cutting/driving player who will still go hard on the boards. I haven't had a jump shot the last few years so I've really been limited. If you can shoot then you're so much more valuable and shouldn't be limited to the post.

You can be aggressive without being aggressive. I'm not an aggressive person but am an aggressive player. Don't know if that's what you meant.

Btw, not sure if you've seen these podcasts. Really interesting episode:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY80mZ9xTC8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY80mZ9xTC8</a>
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4661 on: January 21, 2019, 04:52:56 am »
+3
Thinking about starting the daily upper training soonish for a change of pace and an effort to restore balance to my training/body. Im leaning towards ohp as my exercise. Only because i can just do it after squats and not have to find a bench etc. It seems relatively simple an exercise to master technically and would be cool to get a milestone like 90kg or something just from greasing the groove and all that neural high freq stuff.  I've noticed lately my abs have blown the fuck up .. ive always had good ab development but that was the upper quadrant or whatever, now i can feel the rest of my abs just as prominently - i'd attribute this to the higher rep squatting. And it's not just cosmetic, I haven't done an OHP workout in like 11 days, today i did ohp 5x60kg out of the blue, so it's not like i've trained up my upper body for it (i seldom do upper body, like 2x a month), just can put it down to a stronger core from higher rep squats
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism - summer 19
« Reply #4662 on: January 21, 2019, 09:00:01 pm »
+1
Bodyweight(AM): 86.5kg (21 Jan)
Diet compliance: 2/2 days
Daily Squat: 66/66 days
Daily Cardio: 66/66 days
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
  

Noon:
  BS 6x120, 3x150, 1x162.5(PR), 15x122.5(PR)
  BX 12x85kg(+band, PR)

Evening:
   Bike - 20 mins 
   Row - 20 mins


Notes:
  • Right onto  the remaining 7 days of gaaaains, then time to lock down caloric intake.
  • I manned the the fuck up and went for a lifetime heavy squat max  PR - only 2.5kg but i got it. It was a toughie. Not sure im much stronger than a 162.5kg despite what the 1rm calculators would have you believe, im not even close to a 170kg leave alone 180kg squat. Thas life. It may well be that instead of aiming to be a 85kg athlete i shud be aiming for something like 83.5kg instead. Which is fine, i mean there is no reason why everyone must fit into neat weight class categories like 85kg or 105kg or whatever, you know? So i'm the best at 83.5kg - just embrace it. Feels like a cop out tho.   
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:25:27 am by maxent »
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4663 on: January 22, 2019, 01:32:13 am »
+1
with OHP just be very careful of your shoulder (obviously). lot of little muscles in there that get stressed out very easily.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4664 on: January 22, 2019, 03:08:39 am »
0
with OHP just be very careful of your shoulder (obviously). lot of little muscles in there that get stressed out very easily.

i think that's a real concern. but lifting dogma also says smaller muscles recover the fastest. maybe it's not even the muscles that we should be worried about but ligaments and tendons?  i have no idea to be honest, i'll be conservative and see how it goes. if it's not working then bail on it and do something else.
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