Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 923792 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Coges

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3107
  • Respect: +2267
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4650 on: February 24, 2019, 05:15:03 pm »
0
There's no contradiction.. im claiming daily squatting doesn't seem to do much for athleticism and may possibly limit it and at the same time i do want to become more athletic but not right now, too busy finishing off a goal (that i previously believed to have a benefit but no longer subscribe to that belief). I'm too close to just give up. It's more just to do it than for any benefit that may come but has not yet shown itself.

Mate you mistook my post for sarcasm. It was a legitimate question regarding athleticism. I asked myself the same thing recently and was surprised at my answer and how that lined up with my training practices.

I'm all for chasing that goal you've been chasing so long. Looks like you're closer than ever.

sorry i just understand what im saying and what im doing are two opposite things. if i truly believed this is a lost cause (daily squatting & squatting itself) i prob would stop and do something else. that cognitive dissonance is very real. And yea you got it, it's just about finishing what i started .. ive put too much into this one persuit to turn away after so long


re athleticism, it's something you recognise when you see it. and when someone lacks it you see it. i watched some kids games last friday while waiting for a court and there was a 14 year old kid (i imagine) jumping out of the gym, sprinting all over the court and just beasting in every possible way. that's an athlete. he's a (not tall) white kid but he tried to go for a put back dunk in a game .. that's a FAR better athlete than ive ever been or will become haha

an easier question is what does athleticism mean for me? that would be maximising my fitness, strength to power etc .. very dumb, very gym oriented qualities which are the vestige of the mediocre. or in other words, play a game where you can win at something that doesn't matter

I completely understand how you feel about athleticism and I came up with a similar answer to you. It's not a quantifiable set of numbers which makes it kind of annoying. There's a girl in my daughters gymnastics class so she'd be 5-7 years old. She runs like a punt returner and has that inbuilt agility, speed and coordination. It's just there.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4651 on: February 25, 2019, 04:18:17 am »
+1
Yep, even in the NBA draft you'll have athletes giving comparable numbers but the eye sight test will favour a given athlete over the others. Some things are trainable but do not express themselves in a way we'd recognise as athletic. It's a stupid game, no longer trying to play it .. ha. It prob helps cos my vertical is now closer to 25" than 35"  :headbang:
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4652 on: February 25, 2019, 04:21:58 am »
+2
Bodyweight(AM): 88.9kg (25 Feb)
Diet compliance: 0/0 days
Daily Squat: 100/100 days

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x160, 12x137.5(PR)
   OHP 15x40(PR?) 

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • Haven't been daily logging but today i felt good enough to go for a PR and got it. Has been a rough couple of days of no PRs .. knees being beat up .. back being fatigued, abs being dead etc etc but today i felt recovered enough from that brutal 12x135kg of last week that i though to progress it.
  • I also made the decision to bump the daily max up to 160kg to coincide with day 100 of daily squatting.. it went okay, i feel confident i can maintain that from here
  • Got really fat .. im close to heavy weight status (90kg) and it's a bad thing when my athletic bw is sub 85kg. sucks
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4653 on: February 26, 2019, 11:04:16 pm »
+2
Sometime this week i'm going to for the 12x140kg PR and then im done with strength accumulation. Will be switching up to lower reps (not straight away but building up for it) to see what i can peak up. It prob ends at 150kg for 8 reps.  Somewhere along the way i need to lose about 4kg of weight .. and i need to practice full court basketball without actually playing full court basketball. Really tempted to just say fk it, it's not happening this year.. i haven't got the same prep i had last year when we were actually playing ball regularly .. at least up to february. I can't even find a place to place half court pickup this year, im practising alone and it takes me 30 minutes to put up 30 shots lol.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4654 on: February 27, 2019, 04:11:14 am »
+2
Bodyweight(AM): 88.7kg (27 Feb)
Diet compliance: 0/0 days
Daily Squat: 102/102 days

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x165(PR)
   OHP 12x50(PR) 

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • Wanted to do some dunks after so i cut the workout short by the time i drove to the basketball stadium stuck in traffic, i was cold and lost the motivation, didn't even get out of the car just drove back. Next time i'll just go to the closer court,  lol, wanted to try a different location for some reason. I should have jumped today though, at least once a week would be nice
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4655 on: February 28, 2019, 09:52:04 pm »
-1
Well im stupid. I weighed 89.8kg today .. starting a diet lol
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4656 on: March 01, 2019, 05:41:27 am »
+1
Bodyweight(AM): 89.8kg (1st March)
Diet compliance: 0/0 days
Daily Squat: 104/104 days

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x170(PR), 8x140(PR)
   OHP 10x50 

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • So summer is over as of yesterday. I decided to go for my summer goal of a 170kg squat .. it went ok. But probably cost me a rep or two of the actual workset with 140kg. That sucks, i could have forced the issue and ground out two more but at the cost of being too beat up to train normally after today.
  • I went to the court straight after and did some  jumps hit probably halfway up on my palm which is around 25" or so. That's disappointing. My friend asked if i can do windmills now .. no.. not even close. After spending teh eintire summer focusing on squat ive got nothing to show for it except being fat and slow and can't jump
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

seifullaah73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Respect: +1741
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4657 on: March 01, 2019, 06:58:18 am »
+4
Great job with the Squat PR. A great start to your goal of wanting to squat 170kg. What sport specific training are you doing in line with the squatting to help with the athleticism.

Good luck with the dieting aspect of it.
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4658 on: March 01, 2019, 11:31:58 am »
+2
Bodyweight(AM): 89.8kg (1st March)
Diet compliance: 0/0 days
Daily Squat: 104/104 days

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x170(PR), 8x140(PR)
   OHP 10x50 

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • So summer is over as of yesterday. I decided to go for my summer goal of a 170kg squat .. it went ok. But probably cost me a rep or two of the actual workset with 140kg. That sucks, i could have forced the issue and ground out two more but at the cost of being too beat up to train normally after today.
  • I went to the court straight after and did some  jumps hit probably halfway up on my palm which is around 25" or so. That's disappointing. My friend asked if i can do windmills now .. no.. not even close. After spending teh eintire summer focusing on squat ive got nothing to show for it except being fat and slow and can't jump

that's a solid PR, squat looked beast.

too bad you jumped after hitting a 1RM squat PR, and made yourself depressed.

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4659 on: March 01, 2019, 11:33:07 pm »
0
Down to 88.8kg today. I didn't do anything just daily fluctuation. Hopefully i'll go sub 88kg without much fuss then i can start actively dieting down. I feel like when i've recovered from yesterdays squatting (back a bit stiff, erectors a bit sore, etc) i'll be a 170kg+ squatter just from recovering. And if i keep working towards 8x150kg as part of peaking i'll be able to met the 2.0 multiplier along the way as bw heads towards 85kg. As it stands 170kg without the 85kg bw is nothing to celebrate ..

Andrew do you think if i was fresher i'd jump higher? Hopefully you're right.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4660 on: March 02, 2019, 07:26:23 am »
+1
Quote
Andrew do you think if i was fresher i'd jump higher? Hopefully you're right.

yes. if serious, questions like this from training veterans surprise me.

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4661 on: March 03, 2019, 12:46:11 am »
+1
What sport specific training are you doing in line with the squatting to help with the athleticism.

Nothing concrete yet, thinking i need to restart doing cardio. As far as athleticism, i havent done sprints in months. Nor been able to jump or dunk seriously. So gradually introducing all of these things is the way to go, starting monday?

Quote
Good luck with the dieting aspect of it.
Looks like i have about 3.5kg to lose .. which feels more manageable than 5kg. Have just under 50 days to get there though. Yikes.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4662 on: March 03, 2019, 12:47:12 am »
0
Quote
Andrew do you think if i was fresher i'd jump higher? Hopefully you're right.

yes. if serious, questions like this from training veterans surprise me.

but .. you do realise if i was fresher and jumped 32" say, i would feel pretty disappointed still even though it would be a pretty huge improvement. My point is, if i was resting and getting 40" that would be one thing. To get levels i previously could get any day just thru training normally after peaking ...... is not ideal

the problem right now is i can't do a proper jump session because im either too fatigued from squatting or i've got to stay fresh for an upcoming squat workout. it's a bad place to be for jumping. i just need to keep making progress tho. something is better than nothing. The other issue is by the time i get to the court, im too hungry .. jumping needs carbs like crazy .. and for whatever reason, body doesn't tap into glycogen for dunking workouts .. weird thing. i'l have no energy to jump. yea i could eat but im fat :(
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 03:11:45 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4663 on: March 03, 2019, 08:53:39 am »
+4
Quote
Andrew do you think if i was fresher i'd jump higher? Hopefully you're right.

yes. if serious, questions like this from training veterans surprise me.

but .. you do realise if i was fresher and jumped 32" say, i would feel pretty disappointed still even though it would be a pretty huge improvement. My point is, if i was resting and getting 40" that would be one thing. To get levels i previously could get any day just thru training normally after peaking ...... is not ideal

you're not going to get to 40" by rarely ever jumping.



Quote
the problem right now is i can't do a proper jump session because im either too fatigued from squatting or i've got to stay fresh for an upcoming squat workout. it's a bad place to be for jumping. i just need to keep making progress tho. something is better than nothing.

proper jump session.. just jump before your squat workouts. that's what you should have been doing for months. that's what any vert-obsessed person does.

i can't even begin to comprehend the idea of wanting to improve X and never performing X. you claim you have vert goals but you aren't jumping. and when you do jump, you set yourself up for failure? if you cared about vert you'd jump often.


Quote
The other issue is by the time i get to the court, im too hungry .. jumping needs carbs like crazy .. and for whatever reason, body doesn't tap into glycogen for dunking workouts .. weird thing. i'l have no energy to jump. yea i could eat but im fat :(

jumping doesn't need carbs like crazy. that's ridiculous. it's one small anaerobic effort. it probably uses 1 calorie.

you can't be hungry though, that's a rule for anything athletic.

it's hard to cool down after a heavy workout then try and jump. it's also hard to jump when you just PR'd a 1RM.



you just aren't doing what you need to.

jump or sprint before nearly every squat session, and eat good. it's so simple. but no you want to do one thing without the other, then see if it works like magic, then make some serious gains in the one thing you're focusing on, then sabotage yourself through fatigued jumps and dieting.



i mean just stop trying to "know so much" or have all of these answers, and just do what any obsessed athletic noob would do: jump often, lift often, and eat good.

i guess it's frustrating from an outside perspective, because it's hard to watch you continue to mention vert numbers, but rarely ever jump, then make all kinds of progress in squat, then get frustrated with the scale and start dieting etc. you're in a wicked cycle. break out of it.

/2cents

pc

seifullaah73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3933
  • Respect: +1741
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4664 on: March 03, 2019, 09:45:13 am »
+5
Exactly what adarq said.

If you want to be good at jumping you should jump. If you are trying to improve your strength to transfer to a higher jump you have to incorporate one day at least dedicated to jumping and plyometrics and do some jumps before lifting because you want to maintain the muscle memory and keep your from forgetting how to jump, prob is some technical term. But lifting without jumping your body will lose that fluidity and memory of how to jump as efficiently as it could before lifting. Just my 2 cents.

Never stop doing the movement you are trying to improve.
Warm up drills
   - a walk, b skip quick powerful switch (heel to hams focus), a runs, dribbles small to big to run, straight leg to runs (force, reflex, go up/forward). force to hit the ground before it hits the ground knee/hip is at 90 degrees.
   - acceleration: low heel recovery, shin angle low, drive legs back before hitting the ground and drive thighs/knee forward not up
-------------------------------------------------------------
Measuring reminder:
5 toe to heel steps = 148cm
------------------------------------------------------------------------

�Strength comes from the legs, Power comes from the torso and Speed comes from the arm.� � Al Vermeil
Arm also aids the legs in driving it down with power - seifullaah73

My Progress Log
A Journey to Running fast and Jumping High
http://www.adarq.org/progress-journals-experimental-routines/my-journey-to-hypertrophy/