Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 344873 times)

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entropy

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« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2012, 09:50:23 am »
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Training
SQ - 3x120kg (5 month best), 7x100kg (PR)
BP - 1x92.5kg (PR!), 10x70kg (PR!)
10x30m sprints (5 warmups, 5 recorded time - 83, 83, 78, 65, 86 - new PR - 04:65!!)

Psyched myself up to lift today even though my knees were complaining even getting out of bed and sitting up from a chair. I spend a bit of time warming up them carefully - then went for it. I realised if I didn't train today, I wouldn't lift again til wednesday, meaning a 4 day break, which is bad news since my lifts go down rapidly on layoff. In the end I was really happy with training today. It's not every day you get 3 PRs - feels good man.

Breaking my sprint PR from 4:95 which I could never break to consistently breaking it today is just awesome. If I was to say why it happened, it's because I tried to pump my arms hard, which i never used to do until today. I picked that up from watching some youtube celebrity, forget his name, he's pretty famous for doing music videos and skits. The scary thing is, I'm not sure i've peaked. I can do a lot better than this - esp since i haven't sprinted in over 2 weeks, and today was the first time this month I felt healthy enough to go all out. The weathers been good, stopped raining, suns come out and it dried away the wet grass, was still a bit dewy though, but I didn't notice it when running though.

I decided I didn't want to do three heavy triples on my last workout of the week. It's gotten pretty heavy, and my form goes out of the window in sets 2 and 3. Mentally it's gotten very intimidating. Now I'd rather just psyche up and go all out with 1 heavy set and then finish off with backoff work. This workout isn't for getting stronger, that happens during the other 2 squat sessions. The heavy triple is just for setting a new PR. After the heavy triple, I took weight off the bar and did 100 for 7 reps. I had another rep or 2 in me, but I wasn't looking to set a new RM. My goal with the 2nd set is to add reps. If I can take my 7x100 to 10x105 or even 10x110 the 1RM calculator says my 1RM can go upto 150kg. Which is crazy. Because that means just working hard in the higher reps, in that narrow 10kg range of 100kg to 110kg, I can get still get a lot stronger. So why not do that in addition to doing heavy 5s and 3s as well as continuing with the 6s which are serving me very well too. It saves me burning out from grinding out sets across with heavy weights which fucking sucks.

92.5kg close grip felt good - i'm gonna be ambitious and try 95kg at the end of the month. I have a feeling I have it in me. That would bring me a step closer to the magic 100kg goal in the coming month/s.

Oh and i've decided to follow the good advice i've gotten to skip the distance running. I don't fucking need it. 20-30minutes shooting hoops is aerobic for me. So why the fuck would i beat up my knees on a treadmill when I could be working on something I enjoy as well as improving my skills in my sport? Exactly.

As far as conditioning goes, i'll ease myself gently into intervals and just build up slowly over time. I tend to be super skeptical of training advice after being burned before, but in this case i'm coming around to the idea now. I just have to be smart about training now. I am just coming out of injuries and if I pick my battles, I can improve across the board by budgeting my recovery sensibly.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 10:02:48 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

chrisbro1

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2012, 02:23:41 pm »
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saw your question yesterday about training w/a heavy basketball.  I know a few basketball trainers and coaches and I've seen them used to improve ball handling skills, develop soft hands for catching passes in traffic and to increase upper body stamina at the end of workouts via layup drills, tipping drills or Mikan drills but I've never seen anyone use it to improve shooting.  Personally, there's no way I'd use one for shooting because of the risk of it throwing off the mechanics of my shot.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2012, 05:17:00 am »
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saw your question yesterday about training w/a heavy basketball.  I know a few basketball trainers and coaches and I've seen them used to improve ball handling skills, develop soft hands for catching passes in traffic and to increase upper body stamina at the end of workouts via layup drills, tipping drills or Mikan drills but I've never seen anyone use it to improve shooting.  Personally, there's no way I'd use one for shooting because of the risk of it throwing off the mechanics of my shot.

Thank you. I need to work on all those areas so i'm going to make heavy use of the ball when it arrives. Ashamed to admit that I never learnt to do layups with my non-dexterous hand. Currently working on that and it's pretty awkward but i'm getting there.  Reading about the Mikan drill now while writing this post and damn that's exactly what I need.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 05:27:05 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2012, 06:34:22 am »
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« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:20:34 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2012, 11:31:12 am »
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post video.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #65 on: June 20, 2012, 02:02:20 am »
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okay, compare the text book

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM</a>

where there the elbow snaps violently upwards ending in an almost vertical arm

and durant at 01:29s

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI</a>

he does not snap his elbow.. he straightens his arm but it ends up being somewhere between horizontal and vertical to his body.

my footage from yesterday below

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4</a>
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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w8,d1
« Reply #66 on: June 20, 2012, 02:01:09 pm »
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Training
SQ 3x6 103.5kg
BBall match

didn't get time to bench after the game, went out to have dinner with my friends and it got late.

Game sucked. My team mates played like pussies, not much more to say.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 05:31:09 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Rix

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Re: w8,d1
« Reply #67 on: June 21, 2012, 06:52:31 am »
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Game sucked. My team mates played like pussies, not much more to say.

I think you owe it to yourself to quit the team. The one friend you don't want to disappoint...well, you don't owe him anything. Tell him what the deal is and hopefully he will understand where you're coming from. If he doesn't then that's his problem. You gotta put yourself first.

Took a look at those videos with the shooting technique. My view on that (for what it's worth) is everyone has a unique style to shooting; whatever feels comfortable. As long as you can be consistent with your form I don't think there's any reason to try and change it.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #68 on: June 21, 2012, 07:35:56 am »
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Thank you Rix. Will take your advice and have a word with him and take it from there.

I just got back from shooting practice now. Would have liked to have video to review but it was too dark and my camera doesn't work very well in low light. Here is what I tried and how it worked out -

1. Tried having elbow very high making shooting arm almost vertical at the end of the shot. Result: The ball goes too high into the sky, i'm pretty sure that it's never going to be the right shot for me. I can see someone with short arms and of a smaller height shooting like that to get a good arc - but for me it just ends up with a comically high arc.

2. Then i adjusted my usual form by bringing the ball release to occur closer to my head and with a higher release point than usual. This actually felt pretty good. Arc felt like normal, didn't feel like it was skying the ball high. The ball drops softer too, which is good since you don't want to hit the rim too hard (if you hit the rim that is). I think my ideal form is closer to this, i still want to experiment a bit more tinkering with shot release.

So i think i've improved my shot some. I wish I had video to confirm it looks prettier but I will have to wait till practice under better light to have proof. Funnily enough I hit more shots from 3pt line than from inside. Would be interesting to look at the video and try to figure out why that is.

As far as basketball goes, a few good friends of mine might be putting together a team to play in the season starting end of august. That's plenty of time to lose these last few kilos and get in shape.

Bodyweight: 85.3kg
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 10:40:14 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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w8,d2
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2012, 09:03:22 am »
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Training
SQ 6x95, 4x90
pickup ball
bp 3x6 78

Felt weak in the gym warming up, the last warmup set of 105x1 felt heavy, so i wasn't going to be able to hit 3x5 112.5kg. Which is just as well, because i'd been thinking of changing the friday workout to something else anyway.

I only went to play pickup ball today because i was hoping to spend some time playing ball with my friends who I wanted to make a new team with. I think now it's pretty clear that is a terrible idea. We have zero chemistry playing together, to the point where it just felt wrong to be on the court together at the same time. I basically felt out of place the whole time. I only had fun when at the end i picked two of the smallest scrubs to play with me for 3 vs 3  against my friends. And then I had a good game finally - hitting 2 jumpers, a three, and posting up 3 times against my friends who I wanted to show what they'd been missing by not involving me more during our earlier games. I can see being very frustrated with them if we were to play together in a proper full court game. But wait there is more.

In the midst of one of the chaotic pickup games, I was getting frustrated at being fouled by every single guy around me which I didn't call myself, but then they were calling the softest fouls themselves. At one point, I came down awkwardly and I felt my left ankle twist. It wasn't so bad that I was limping or anything like that - it just feels really tender now. So i think i managed to re-injure it playing a pointless pickup game. I told my friends this was the last time i'd ever play pickup, and i'll never come back there again to play against scrubs who carry, travel and foul too much, and even if they don't it's not competitive enough to make it worth being there and the chance of injury landing on some uncoordinated guy's foot is too high.

So no more basketball for the next few months. I'm just going to lay off my ankle and let it heal, and try to lose some fat in the mean time. If i can squat, i'll squat, but no balling or running until i'm confident it's 100% ok. i'll work on perfecting my shooting and ball handling (i realised today i depend too much on my left hand when being pressed with a double team) and try out for a good team around my area. And if it doesn't happen, that's ok too, lifes too short to stress about this stuff.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

creativelyric

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2012, 01:43:39 pm »
+1
okay, compare the text book

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM</a>

where there the elbow snaps violently upwards ending in an almost vertical arm

and durant at 01:29s

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI</a>

he does not snap his elbow.. he straightens his arm but it ends up being somewhere between horizontal and vertical to his body.

my footage from yesterday below

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4</a>

Consider the difference of leverages. Stephen Curry needs that shot to be released very quick and high so that his shot isn't bothered by more athletic, longer guards/forwards on him. Durant is basically 7 feet and has a very long wingspan, so his shot is very fluid and more natural-- following through towards the basket.

chrisbro1

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #71 on: June 22, 2012, 02:45:21 pm »
+1

Consider the difference of leverages. Stephen Curry needs that shot to be released very quick and high so that his shot isn't bothered by more athletic, longer guards/forwards on him. Durant is basically 7 feet and has a very long wingspan, so his shot is very fluid and more natural-- following through towards the basket.

That's true in retrospect.  It's hard to say if those were factors when they began to play basketball. For example Durant may not have been tall and lanky at 7 or 8 years old when he began playing and even if he were it may not have mattered if he routinely played against older & taller competition. According to wikipedia he was 6'2 through his Jr year in HS so he wasn't always significantly taller than the competition.

The difference is more than likely attributable to the instruction of whomever taught them how to shoot which is why Curry's shot looks just like his father's.  Really, as long as you keep the ball on your fingertips, put in a ton of practice and keep your form consistent then you should be able to become a good shooter even if your form isn't perfect (think reggie miller.)

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #72 on: June 22, 2012, 03:01:42 pm »
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Chris makes a good point about ingrained early habits, which I hadn't though of but agrees with my general impression of creative's post.

Creative's theory seems to fits the data very well, it matches up with intuition. But one thing i've learnt is that there are often many different theories which fit very well. Whether or not it's actually true is a different matter. If we had data for release trajectories for different players you could check if creative's theory agrees with the data. Just to make it clear, I am not disputing creative, I just don't know for sure. It certainly seems to agree with common sense but intuition can be wrong.

Btw chris, last night I watched a very long video [1] on shooting, and in it the coach says holding the ball in the fingertips is a mistake. He actually encourages his shooters to touch the ball with the whole hand for better stability and control. So like you said, it depends who taught you and how. But I can't help thing that there must be a 'natural' shooting form which if you're seeking it, must be unique for a given individual and body proportions.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbd0vOqCOPo
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chrisbro1

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #73 on: June 22, 2012, 04:05:09 pm »
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Btw chris, last night I watched a very long video [1] on shooting, and in it the coach says holding the ball in the fingertips is a mistake. He actually encourages his shooters to touch the ball with the whole hand for better stability and control.

I have these videos...he uses more hand than I do, but I think that's because he  uses a more relaxed finger spread whereas I prefer a wider spread.  By "keeping it on the fingertips" I meant keeping the ball from resting on the palm while shooting so I don't think he and I disagree much.  I learned from the old pistol pete series http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-nV0Gzof_0 though I have problems keeping my elbow in because of my build

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2012, 03:10:08 am »
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Reading this book ^ .. Will be posting any interesting things I can find in it.

The author Fontanella says MJ gets a higher release point on his J by extending his legs (so they're straight) as well as pointing his toes down to the ground. This raises his Center of Mass higher, leading to a higher release point.
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