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Members Area => Progress Journals & Experimental Routines => Topic started by: entropy on May 01, 2012, 02:24:18 am

Title: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 01, 2012, 02:24:18 am
RVJs: 26" (Jan 2012), 31" (17 Aug 2012)
SVJs: 23" (Jan 2012), 30" (24 Aug)
Sprint 30m times: >5s (Jan 2012), < 5s (1st Oct)

SVJ dunk (1 hand) - 22 Dec 2012
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on May 01, 2012, 03:00:38 am
Aren't you like 6'3 84kg? How can you be 20% bodyfat at that height and weight???
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on May 01, 2012, 03:04:28 am
sup man, why did you choose the nick 'entropy'? curious..

every time i read your nick, i picture myself banging on my keyboard & if i had a mouse, wiggling it around like crazy.. to improve the entropy pool for /dev/random when generating RSA keys.

wut.

pc man.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on May 01, 2012, 03:08:29 am
Aren't you like 6'3 84kg? How can you be 20% bodyfat at that height and weight???

lol.. i dunno. i just don't know. i try to think of it positively that when i'm 75kg i'll be leanish and then i can bulk a whole 10kg and still be only average weight for someone my height.

I mean are you sure you're not overestimating your bodyfat?
Use this bodyfat calculator it's probs not 100% accurate but it'd give a good ballpark figure.
http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on May 01, 2012, 03:21:15 am
Yeh you're probably around 19-20% bf than. No point in really getting a dexa. With waist measurements I don't think it really matters where you measure your waist as long as you consistently measure it in the same place and at the same time. E.g you measure your waist relaxed 1 inch above the naval as soon as you wake up that's the way you measure it for all times in the future.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on May 01, 2012, 03:25:23 am
@adarqui haha damn you've got an active imagination. whatsup bro. i chose entropy cos I've been spending too much time learning probability stuff and it just popped up in my head when i was trying to think of a name. Nothing deep, sorry to say! btw i've been reading your posts on the geek board, I see you're a fellow hacker too. Good stuff.

cool man.

ya i tried to hack my central nervous system.. escelated privs, got root, but unfortunately there were RBAC policies in place which restricted what i could do with root, so unfortunately i couldn't take full control and run ./t-dub .. perhaps if i had run steroids, i might have been able to run t-dub, but, that would have ruined my 365*(predicted age max) uptime on my selfOS (human server), probably leading to a sooner death, as cancerous_pollups_in_shrunken_testicles.kld would probably emerge.

HTP.

that's kind of how i always viewed training, hacking the CNS.. trying to take advantage of 'hidden CNS resources' that are only available during peroids of extreme stress (violent/possibly life or death situations).

peace man
Title: #1
Post by: entropy on May 01, 2012, 08:52:41 am
I woke up at 84.1kg which was close to 84kg, my goal for April. It was a tough slog towards the end but I've dialled in nutrition and training.

Training (off day)
2x lap around football field jog
rest
1x lap football field

I wanted to try out my new running shoes but they bothered my ankle so i put them away and used my normal rubber ones which aren't that great but they don't disturb my ankle.

Then practiced ball handling in the parking lot, then shot hoops. Took around 80 shots, hit 50 odd (wait this sounds wrong, i should have shot way more than 80 to make 50 cos i'm not a great shooter.. dunno). Anyway, i am starting to find a groove with my jumpshot, it's almost there just need more practice.

nervous about the game tomorrow, we're playing the top ranked team in the contest, and we are closer to the bottom. would be crazy to win though.
 
Bodyweight: 84.1kg (May goal 81-81.5kg)
Title: #2
Post by: entropy on May 02, 2012, 01:05:07 am
Woke up surprisingly lighter. I expected it would take a few more days but i've lost half a kilo overnight! That's a whole pound. So now I can relax a little bit since i'm ahead of the curve for the week. But not too much because it will be real nice to start next week < 83kg.

I used a pair of accumeasure calipers to take a skinfold reading of my supra this morning and it came out as 12mm, which according to the table below means i have a bodyfat of 14.6%. I don't for a second think my bodyfat is quite that low but now I am a bit more uncertain than before, not that it changes anything, the plan is still get to 80kg and see whats up.
 
(http://i.imgur.com/LYFxo.png)

Bodyweight: 83.6kg (May goal 81-81.5kg)
Title: #2 continued
Post by: entropy on May 02, 2012, 09:32:00 am
Just got back from the game. My team held our own in the first half, i was pretty surprised how well we were playing. But it was a blowout loss in the end. But i'm mostly annoyed with myself. I got plenty of looks, just couldn't score. Driving, I was easily shaking off defenders right and left with quickness only to end up missing easy shots. Then I would pull down my own board over and over, but i missed again and again. Before finally they'd tap it away and i'd be left there scoreless. I'm doubly annoyed with my conditioning, I run up and down with the fastest guys, but in general lapse back into slowly conserving energy cos i'm unfit and can't play a full game at full steam. In the past when I played seriously i was very light (~75kg) and I could run all day, but now i'm not as fit and much heavier.

So need to figure out a way to improve conditioning, that needs to be priority #1 from here. I'm gonna try simulate game conditions when running up and down 40m. I figure if I can do that for 10 minutes straight without a break then i'm fit enough? We'll see. And figure out why my shot deserts me gametime. At practice i've got a nice smooth release and I can hit them but it all goes out of the window during games.

sleep 4/10, diet 3/10 (still cutting hard), freshness 6/10. Next week i'm gonna aim for better sleep and freshness. Ankle is 6/10.

Gonna eat dinner and hit the gym..

Training
Bench Press 3x6 72.5kg
Back Squat 3x6 90 kg
Deadlift 1x5 90kg (Tekniq steroids haven't started working yet .. but i'm getting closer..)
Chinup 3x5 BW=85.6kg
Hanging Leg raises 15, 10 (abz fatigued might stop there)
BB Curl 2x10 35kg

All done! tired, gonna get some sleep now.
 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on May 02, 2012, 03:32:21 pm
during practice, are you practicing shots off of screens, off the dribble, off passes, with someone in your face, etc.? or are you practicing stationary jump shot after stationary jump shot? if the latter, consider doing the former.

i'm a terrible basketball player, but i can hit shots all day in rhythm with no one guarding me.

just a thought.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 03, 2012, 02:12:42 am
I practice mainly alone outdoors. Not ideal. When I do get to practice with others, I can still hit shots in their face but gametime I miss wide open jumpers. My muscles just lock up and dont shoot normally, if that makes sense.. I even miss layups and shit. I need to calm down more, I can easily play better in a better mental state. I get what you mean though, it's probably a matter of being more gamelike during practices, will try to get more realistic practise in.

Btw no more daily weighings, cos I get obsessive and it just leads to extra stress. So from now on, bodyweight measurements are taken on dates ending in 1. So in a month i'll take 3 measurements, if the last day of the month is 31, then i'll skip it and take it on the first of the following month. The next scheduled weighin is on the 11th of the month.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 03, 2012, 11:47:09 am
Good idea on not weighing yourself every day. 

And yeah, sounds like you're not confident when you play real games if you lock up like that and miss easy shots/lay ups.  Basketball is all mental.  One thing though, the more athletic you get, the more confident you'll get
Title: Week 1, day 4th
Post by: entropy on May 04, 2012, 06:07:59 am
Training
BP 3x5 77.5kg
BS 3x5 100kg
Hang Clean 1x3 65kg (i did more sets but that was my top/last one)
Deadlift 1x5 100kg (getting closer to good form)

Off to play pickup ball now, and before bed i'll squeeze in chins and curls. My form on the backsquat wasn't perfect, I wanted it to be. Cleans are starting to look real preedy tho.

yea and the chinups and curls aren't happening, i can barely move now post balling..

Played pickup ball for ~3 hrs, only lost one game I think, so spend most of the time on the court. Bah, i'm spent now. i tried to run around at a fast pace to simulate game conditions.. but honestly I don't feel like this < 1/2 court stuff makes any difference in practice. Ah well it was fun at least. I worked on my finger rolls when driving hard inside and was making them pretty easily. hopefully i can do that in games too.

blah, too fatigued now. need to chill out and relax, unwind. had a nice long hot shower and washed my hair.. lol.. now i just i want to sit bak and watch playoff games but the torrent files are too big/too high quality and they dont load properly on the ps3. it just refuses to play them.. fucking useless.. i miss being able to watch games on youtube but the nba got the channels banned just before playoffs.. :(
Title: Week 1, Day 7
Post by: entropy on May 06, 2012, 08:13:38 am
Training
BP 1x87.5kg
BS 3,3,1 x110kg
DL 5x110kg

Fatigue: 7/10, Ankle: 8/10

BP wasn't happening today. Even unracking 80kg felt like death. My programming is obviously not working. I was trying to do 3x6, 3x5 and then 3x3 - but when it comes to 3x3 day i'm not recovered enough. So perhaps something has to give for next week.

DL catches up with SQ. Am feeling much better about my DL than I am about my BS. For the 3rd week in a row, i've been stuck on my squats, which is becoming frustrating. So long as my DL keeps going up, which I am guessing it will since DL doesn't care for BW as much as SQ does, i'll keep heart. If I can drive my DL workset up to 2*BW then my BS might just be cajoled upwards to 1.5BW for worksets.

I've been laying off running and jumping this weekend to allow my ankle to heal. I'm just going to take the next couple of days lightly and let the built up fatigue dissipate. For the last 20 days I don't think i've had a day of rest? Should be nice and fresh for Weds game if i take it easy the next coupla days.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 07, 2012, 05:13:26 pm
How often are you squatting?

If your squat is stagnating, it can be that you are over-trained/not fully recovered.  Make sure your squatting days, the day before you get enough sleep/eat well/ and rest or just light stuff for your lower body.  Nothing CNS intensive the day before, unless you are well adapted.  For me personally, I COMPLETELY rest before my lower body day, cuz without a fresh CNS, I can't squat for shit.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 09, 2012, 06:12:08 am
How often are you squatting?
3x a week. I try to sneak in a really light workout on one my rest days to make it 4x - but not all the time.

Quote
If your squat is stagnating, it can be that you are over-trained/not fully recovered.  Make sure your squatting days, the day before you get enough sleep/eat well/ and rest or just light stuff for your lower body.  Nothing CNS intensive the day before, unless you are well adapted.  For me personally, I COMPLETELY rest before my lower body day, cuz without a fresh CNS, I can't squat for shit.
 

I'm definitely fatigued most of the time. I realise it's because I do a lot of training - lifting, running, jumping, playing basketball and this while trying to diet - it's going to cost me recovery ability. I get that - I'm not denying that, just trying to understand how I can make it work the best considering i'm not going to change training since it's unavoidable. But your post made me realise I am not really prioritising squat. Usually i bench first before squatting. On match day, I usually play ball first then lift.

I was thinking today since i'm refreshed having had 2 rest days where I didn't do any training, that I could maybe squat heavy again today - but warming up, I felt rusty and didn't think i'd be able to hit the same weights as my last workout. So i went with the scheduled 3x6 weights which felt okay.

The only thing thing I can think of is, maybe not go so hard on fridays, so I can come back on sunday to make my 3x3 lifts? But the cost of that is I can't work on my conditioning as hard but something has to give.. :(

I made teh change to squat first today though, fresh. Last week I trained after the match, and after bench pressing. Today squatted first, then bench, and then play ball.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 09, 2012, 11:23:03 am
Squatting 3x a week is not better than 2x a week or 1x a week, if your 3x a week is not progressing into any strength gains.  I may be wrong, but I believe when your cutting calories, it is better to reduce frequency of workouts.  Try 2x a week squatting.  When I cut calories, I lifted heavy one day and light the other day and that was it, but I was at least fresh for each heavy session, allowing me to progress my squat most of the time.

You're on a diet...  It will make it that much harder to recover.  3x a week is already a lot for non dieters unless they are well adapted, but you obviously are not.
Title: Week 2 (Session #1)
Post by: entropy on May 09, 2012, 11:59:10 am
Training
SQ 3x6 92.5kg
BP 3x6 73.5 kg

Bball match (fitness improving, still managing to fuck up the finish on my drives .. sigh.., positives, pulled down a bunch of boards tho)

DL 1x5 117.5 kg

Skipped chinups after warming up with them felt grindy.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 09, 2012, 01:41:33 pm
I'm really bad at taking good advice so help me out here - how would you change my program

weds: squat, bp 3x6, dl 1x5, bball match

friday: squat, bp 3x5, dl 1x5, bball, jumping, sprints

sunday: squat, bp 3x3, dl 1x5, bball/sprints

oh yeh and i do chins (and weighted ones) but lets not worry about them for now

if having two meaningful squat sessions, would I keep the 5s and 6s and skip the 3s? Or keep 3s and drop one of 6s or 5s? Must confess I love 6s, so i'm reluctant to drop them :P Dont care much for 5s except they're heavier than 6s and I find them challenging. 3s im neither here nor there.. dunno.

Just to another piece of info - i have no problem hitting the 6s and 5s, usually only struggle with the 3s on sunday cos i'm not well recovered from fridays death by hours of pickup ball..

You have a basketball match AFTER heavy lifting?  You can still play like that?

Anyways, my advice is, take out your squats and dead lifts on Friday.  Just do upper body and basketball/sprint/jump, but don't go too crazy with the volume on these.  You should be fresher on each squat session and therefore, more likely to progress your strength. 

Sunday you do sprints BEFORE squats right?  If not, do so.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 09, 2012, 01:56:18 pm
You have a basketball match AFTER heavy lifting?  You can still play like that?

Today I did for the first time. But it's not really heavy -3x6 weight is about 20kg lighter than my 3x3 workout. The last few weeks I had been playing first, then lifting, but that means I finish workout out pretty late. What I could do is try to do 2-a-days again, had some success with them early 2012. That way I could do some of my lifting in the AM, then play ball, and lift post workout. Might be better? I can definitely try that out.

Quote
Anyways, my advice is, take out your squats and dead lifts on Friday.  Just do upper body and basketball/sprint/jump, but don't go too crazy with the volume on these.  You should be fresher on each squat session and therefore, more likely to progress your strength. 

fridays workouts aren't hard, neither, if I played less ball, i might be better recovered? It's a balancing act heh. The other thing is, my squat is really sensitive to frequency and it detrains very quickly. Taking 3 days between squats might be bad. I'll think about it.

Quote
Sunday you do sprints BEFORE squats right?  If not, do so.
Usually get the lifting out of the way, then head to the park. Is this bad? I figure I can go all out on the sprints that way, and not have to save myself to lift later, cos I  don't know how to limit myself.

Thanks for the ideas, i'm gonna take them on board and improve my programming.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 09, 2012, 02:32:59 pm
Of course I can't say for sure, cause I don't know you and I don't train with you, but it seems like you're not going that heavy on your squats.  6 reps being 20kg lighter than 3 reps is a lot, unless you're purposely trying to go lighter.  Lifting heavy is important when dieting.

If your really frequency sensitive with squats, at least make Friday a light day (~60% 1RM).  If you believe you really can recover with your current routine, and it's the basketball that's messing you up, reduce that. 

You gotta reduce one or the other, or you'll keep on being chronically fatigued and not progress your squats.  You said your squat stagnated for 3 weeks.  At your strength levels, this should not happen, ESPECIALLY considering your doing pretty high frequency.  So obviously something is wrong, and most likely overtraining/ lack of recovery so up to you.  Take something out, if you want to keep progressing.  Gotta sacrifice some things for the bigger goal.  I know the feeling, I hate giving up basketball time, but if "CHASING ATHLETICISM" is your primary goal at this point, gotta make the necessary changes.

Sprinting/ Max effort jumping/ and other plyo's should be done with the same mentality as how us athletes treat heavy lifting days.  Quality over quantity, and train at your peak.

Sprint BEFORE you lift, so you will train your body for sprinting at it's best.  The reason it doesn't work the other way around is, lifting will hinder sprint performance for the day, but sprints (OBVIOUSLY GO FOR QUALITY AND NOT MUCH VOLUME) will not hinder your lifting, in fact it is a good warm up for max lifting.  How much plyometric volume one can handle before risking lifting performance varies by individual but play it safe and go for low volume first and keep adding until you know your limits.  More volume on sprints/plyo's/jumps is not worth it to risk lifting performance.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 10, 2012, 07:42:41 am
Of course I can't say for sure, cause I don't know you and I don't train with you, but it seems like you're not going that heavy on your squats.  6 reps being 20kg lighter than 3 reps is a lot, unless you're purposely trying to go lighter.  Lifting heavy is important when dieting.

I get that. Yes the 6s aren't heavy, but from experience they're important in the big picture. I find I need them to keep my form honest. If I lift heavy triples only then my form goes bad because the weight is heavy, and I'm struggling to just get thru the reps and sets, it sets up a situation where i'm doing ugly squats  ALL the time. The 6s are an antidote to that, they remind my body what a pretty squat looks like, Good form is important for self evident reasons and also I think for someone with my proportions (not build to be great at lifting) I need that time under tension to get sufficient stimulus. I actually don't know the full explanation of by heart but I read it on a t-nation article (lol) and it made sense. The idea is lanky guys like me need more work with higher reps with lighter weight to get the best out of lifting. I don't know if it's true or not but when I reach my goal of 1.5BW for worksets, I want to be doing it with good form, not shitty form, because that's worthless from the perspective of attaining the next goal of 1.75BW and longterm 2BW. So if it means working with weights 10-20kg less in 2 workouts of 3, that's okay for me.

The other thing is, i've tried the go heavy every time thing in the past while cutting. I dont know if it works cos I always end up taking reps off and by the end i'm doing heavy awful looking doubles and triples with a weight I was using for 5s previously before the diet. And form gradually gets worse and worse. As in scary and painful to watch. The other thing is, someone with a long road of dieting ahead, there is no way I can lift heavy every workout for the next 8-16wks - even if twice a wk, i'd burn out very quickly. The recommendation to just lift heavy bro when cutting doesn't make too much sense to me. People can't lift heavy all the time when they're bulking - so why would you try that on a cut? It makes no sense and yes I've tried it earnestly in the past and it didn't work and i think rep work is too important to give up just because you're cutting.

Quote
If your really frequency sensitive with squats, at least make Friday a light day (~60% 1RM).  If you believe you really can recover with your current routine, and it's the basketball that's messing you up, reduce that.  

Yeah I need to cut down on ball slightly.. (easier said than done, it's like opening a bag of crisps/chips and planning only on having a a handful..lol). But i'll have to be strict about it.

Quote
You gotta reduce one or the other, or you'll keep on being chronically fatigued and not progress your squats.  You said your squat stagnated for 3 weeks.  At your strength levels, this should not happen, ESPECIALLY considering your doing pretty high frequency.  So obviously something is wrong, and most likely overtraining/ lack of recovery so up to you.  Take something out, if you want to keep progressing.  Gotta sacrifice some things for the bigger goal.  I know the feeling, I hate giving up basketball time, but if "CHASING ATHLETICISM" is your primary goal at this point, gotta make the necessary changes.

Athleticism means having a decent base of fitness/conditioning right? So if i'm half as well conditioned as the average athlete, i can improve that by just showing up each time.  Pretty sure each time i train, i improve, just because i'm so out of shape. I mean taking my 100m sprint from 17s down to 14s wont take a huge amount of high quality work. I just need to run a few times a week and i'll automatically improve, at least for a while. The other thing is, i'm doing extra work atm cos i have to lug around a surplus 10% of bodyfat which I wont have when lean. So there is that too. I'm more fatigued and unfit now, but i wont be later even just maintaining my current fitness and training.  

Regarding squats - im guessing I weigh around 83kg right now. My goal is 1.5BW squats for 3x3. I'm at 110kg atm, and I need to nudge that up to 120, while cutting down to 80kg to reach my goal. This month I can probably manage to get up to 115. Maybe. dunno. If I get myself unstuck first lol. But say If i make progress this week and get 112.5 then 115 should be doable by month end. Then as long as I can nudge it up slowly from 115 to 120, i should be okay. I'm not trying to set the world on fire with my squat, not while cutting and playing ball etc. 1.5BW worksets is my goal, and i'm not too far from it, i think i'm 1.36BW atm. and I did 120kg for 10 sets of 3 earlier this year so it's not a PR for me either. So 120 is a fairly realistic/modest goal imho.  

Quote
Sprinting/ Max effort jumping/ and other plyo's should be done with the same mentality as how us athletes treat heavy lifting days.  Quality over quantity, and train at your peak.

I understand. When i'm down to 10% bf and i'm squatting 130 for triples etc, and my 100m time is < 14 I'll have to change my approach since just showing up wont be enough. I look forward to that lol. That's when I get to approach the limits of my natural ability - will be hard work and training in a different way than i'm used to.

Quote
Sprint BEFORE you lift, so you will train your body for sprinting at it's best.  The reason it doesn't work the other way around is, lifting will hinder sprint performance for the day, but sprints (OBVIOUSLY GO FOR QUALITY AND NOT MUCH VOLUME) will not hinder your lifting, in fact it is a good warm up for max lifting.  How much plyometric volume one can handle before risking lifting performance varies by individual but play it safe and go for low volume first and keep adding until you know your limits.  More volume on sprints/plyo's/jumps is not worth it to risk lifting performance.

Ok. i'll try this out tomorrow. Will let you know hhow it goes. Also can you tell me what sort of distance is ideal for me? I've seen some guys here logging 15 yard sprints, mine are around 40m (i think, could be 60m i haven't measured just using the lines drawn on the field). Does it matter?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on May 10, 2012, 12:14:11 pm
Well from a basketball player's perspective, how long is a full court?  30 yd?  No point in training farther than that.  If you have other goals and sports, (football, track) than of course you should train other distances.  Sprint work should have an emphasis on accelerating as fast as possible within ~20-30yds for basketball players.  This emphasis also helps with your vertical goals.

When I said you should lift heavy on a cut, of course I was assuming lower frequency than 3x a week.  I lifted only once a week during my cut, which allowed me to go heavy each time and maintain my strength.  But you said you don't wanna go under 3x a week so that's that.  Heavy doesn't always mean 3 rep maxes on each set.  It can mean work up to a 5 rep max and then have 3 more sets at a lower weight for a little extra volume.  It can mean 3 sets of 4 at a 6 rep max...  Heavy is ~80%+ 1RM I believe.

Yes, conditioning/fitness is athleticism as well.  But when you watch the NBA, do you look at Rip Hamilton (one of the most conditioned players) and say "DAMN HE ATHLETIC"?  Or do you look at Lebron James get his head on the rim and say "DAMN HE ATHLETIC".  Most of the time it's the latter because that's what most people associate athleticism with in regards to basketball players.  So, that's what I thought you meant.   I still think you should put your vert goals ahead of your conditioning goals because getting well conditioned for basketball games, you can do any time in a short amount of time.  You just basically show up to ball frequently and play hard and up goes your conditioning.   Up to you though.  If you feel you're too fat right now, then yeah get that weight off first.

Good luck.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 11, 2012, 05:16:52 am
For some bizarre reason I had come to believe a basketball court was 40m long, and now looking at it online it's around ~28m. Yeah 50-60m was too much. I shouldn't be training sprints for such longer lengths. Will change that today. If I can find a tape measure roll, i'm gonna measure out 30m too. just to be exact. Thanks!!

If > 80% is sufficiently heavy then I think i'm still in that range with 3x6 92.5, which is good to know :) Today i'm taking your advice and will sprint first then lift, then go play ball.

Quote
Yes, conditioning/fitness is athleticism as well.  But when you watch the NBA, do you look at Rip Hamilton (one of the most conditioned players) and say "DAMN HE ATHLETIC"?  Or do you look at Lebron James get his head on the rim and say "DAMN HE ATHLETIC".  Most of the time it's the latter because that's what most people associate athleticism with in regards to basketball players.  So, that's what I thought you meant.   I still think you should put your vert goals ahead of your conditioning goals because getting well conditioned for basketball games, you can do any time in a short amount of time.  You just basically show up to ball frequently and play hard and up goes your conditioning.   Up to you though.  If you feel you're too fat right now, then yeah get that weight off first.

I agree with you completely. I guess conditioning is just taken for granted and expected. But when you don't have it, it eats into your ability to express the other athletic qualities during games. If you're tired and fatigued and out of breathe you can't move as fast nor jump as high etc. Suppose you are right and I can improve my conditioning just by playing more ball and at a hard pace - then outside the court I should be working on my power, strength, jump and sprint more than conditioning. Makes sense. I'll make the necessary changes, thank you.

Btw I went and tested my SVJ yesterday and on my legit 10" rim - I have 3.5" above the rim with a 98" standing reach. So that means my SVJ is 25.5? I find that surprising - i would have thought i was still around 22". But hopefully once my ankle is all healed up, i'll be able to train jumping harder and take that up to 28". I can't do a decent RVJ attempt because of my ankle. Speaking of which..

Where has athletic tape been all my life?? I read a thread recently about NBA players taping their ankles and I tried it out myself since i'd been having problems with my left ankle. It makes such a huge difference. The stuff is magic!!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 11, 2012, 06:12:23 am
Training
30m x 5 sprints   while fresh, best time - 5:84

Used ankle tape and new running shoes, was mostly painless. I really like these shorter sprints, can go all out and be powering thru the finish rather than slowing down cos of fatigue. Felt great. Will continue to do them from now on. I ran a few other warmup sprints but didn't keep a track of them.

Time to put on my WL shoes and do some sqwats.

3x5 102.5 kg Backsquats These were stupidly hard, I had to psyche myself up lol, for 100kg? I wont be sprinting before lifting again. i can sprint after squatting without a problem, but lifting after sprinting is way harder.

Getting tired of benching all the time. I don't want to start doing some other exercise half heartedly but dunno.

Going to play pickup ball now,  i'll come back and bench/chin before bed.

1 hour pickup ball - amazing difference playing with a solid ankle. Felt a lot more confident.

I might still bench tonight, but i don't really want to. lol. will see. I need loads more upper body strength. I find myself unable to shoot properly cos my upper body feels weak. Maybe i should add some volume on bench press and drop the intensity some. That might build more strength endurance and a good compromise in intensity cos i'm not setting PRs any time soon anyway.

Forgot to mention, i took an attempt at dunking. But i'm not 100% sure I actually did dunk lol. I know i grabbed the rim both hands at the end, and the ball went in too, but i'm not sure if it was a dunk or just some bullshit. Will count it as a miss anyway. Another thing, I tested SVJ thsi time at a proper court and I hit the rim with my palm middle. So my SVJ is prob slightly higher than 25.5"? maybe as much 27". That is bullshit too. If a fat, unfit, injured unathletic fuck like me is getting 27" without really training for VJ then something is wrong somewhere..

I love 30m sprints.. can't wait to do them next time.. what's a good time to aim for, less than 4s?

BP 1x5 78.5kg, 1x5 71 kg - Last rep was ugly on the first set. 2nd set was 10% less than the first. Felt guilty eating a big dinner and skipping bench so went back and did it lol. I just hope I can make some progress on my lifts on the next workout.
Title: end of week #2
Post by: entropy on May 13, 2012, 11:21:30 am
Training
SQ - 3x3 107.5kg  - would like to have better form on these but dieters cant be choosers.
DL - 1x4 125kg - grip gave out on 5th rep.. should have taken a smaller jump, next time do 120kg and take 2.5kg jumps from now on.
Chinup - 2x5 BW - why do i suddenly suck at these? weird.
5x30m sprints (best time 4:95).  happy about breaking 5s. will chip away at this to break 4s over the next few weeks.
Title: Week 3 - Training session #1
Post by: entropy on May 16, 2012, 09:57:04 am
Training
full court basketball match (~1hr)
Sq - 3x6 95kg
Sprints - 10x30m (Best time 4:95 on the last sprint - had to go balls deep to break 5 today, the best i could do before that was 5:08-5:13 - kept hitting 13 regularly in the last 5 attempts. The first 5 were were mid 5s - bit rusty)

Skipped upper body work, strained intercostal over the weekend (think from unracking bench or squats, or both, on friday). Don't want to make it worse. Hopefully it will be healed faster this way. I've had this injury before and it's a bitch. Last time i just had to lay off all training and it took a few weeks before it healed. Otherwise it never went away when i tried to train thru it, only made it worse and took ages to heal that way.

frustrated with my game.. i'm not finding my place in the team.. i feel as though i'm underutilised on offence.. i should be getting the ball much more since i have good offensive skills, i can dribble well for my size, and i can beat most ppl guarding me easily. but i keep getting overlooked. the only way around this, and i feel selfish about it is if i pull down a board on defence and run it all the way.. which is the only way i'm getting to the hoop it seems sometimes. but i'd rather get a good assist than score anyway, i'm a pass first kind of guy. ah well. i'm actually really happy with my team, we got blown away today as usual, but it was good to see everyone contributing, the ball was passed around much more, and we played decent defence, all things considering..

Forgot to mention, I had another steal at half court where i didn't think to go for a dunk on teh fast break. Dunno why i didn't even try. I regretted instantly  cos i slowed  down enough to let someone steal the ball in the end.. wtf was i thinking.. lol.. next time finish fast break with dunk, no matter what!
Title: rest day (dear diary)
Post by: entropy on May 17, 2012, 10:36:46 am
Nutritional Checklist (N)
+ avoid processed foods
+ fruit and vegetables with every meal
+ Appropriate carbs. I tend to cut out carbs excessively - need em for training: performance and recovery (i could do with more starches around workouts, I don't normally have them, admittedly)
+ eat meat for dinner daily

make sure I check that off every day. If I hit all 4, then it's N=4/4 - etc.

Went to shoot some hoops, my left ankle was complaining, so I forced myself to lead with my non dexterous  right foot. Since then my right foot has been cramping/fatigued - interesting, suppose that means it's weaker? Would be good to consciously train and strengthen it - so when fully healthy, both sides will be strong. I did some jumps off my right foot too.

N: 3.5/4  (190g protein. Additional Notes: Started taking fish oil capsules today - 4x1000mg after dinner - lets see if it makes any difference.)

Title: Training w3,d2
Post by: entropy on May 18, 2012, 08:49:37 am
Training
SQ 3x5 105kg - I stopped pausing my squats today, and they got magically super easy..
BP 3x8 65kg
DL 1x3 120kg
3x30m sprints, best time 5:15 - strained L hamstring on one sprint, and then decided to wrap it up before I did any more damage. My R foot has been sore/tender since yesterday too. Might have done something to it too. I'm basically a magnet for injuries lol. Keep picking up stuff all the time :/

Have decide to switch to higher reps on BP. I figure if I can't get strong with low reps, for whatever reason, then I can at least have perfect form and good repping ability. I am aiming for close grip, 10+ reps x 80kg with perfect form- which if I get it, should mean I have moved my max up and over 100kg, which i've not been able to do forever.

DL form fucking sucks. I think it will improve when ive got full ROM back on my L ankle, cos i've got to be closer to the bar than i'd like to be and i've currently got very little room for ankle flexion before it bothers my ankle.

Will do a whole lot of chinups before bed cos otherwise all these carbs I ate today were a waste. I really wanted to get some good sprints in today!! Ah well. Next time.

Nutrition N: 2.5/4 (-no veg meal 1, +processed food - bag of chips)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on May 18, 2012, 09:39:37 am
post vid of dl form. it'd be odd for ankle mobility to be the limiting factor there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 19, 2012, 02:55:25 pm
post vid of dl form. it'd be odd for ankle mobility to be the limiting factor there.

Will do next time I DL.

It seems i've given myself a nasty dose of plantar fasciitis by favouring my uninjured foot shooting hoops that day. I can't even walk normally now, have to limp around the house.  What I need to learn from this is to back off properly when injuries arise. Going to take some time off to rest and heal up and come back when ready.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 20, 2012, 06:59:17 am
Update on injuries..

In my new found zeal for athletic tape, yesterday I had taped the bottom of my R foot thinking it would be beneficial. But having removed the tape after waking up, I found it feels much better. Guess not everything needs to be taped. I'd also taped my chest last week (which was painful removing!) which might or might not have helped with the intercostal strain.

Anyway to so today I think I could probably still squat and bench today. L ankle and R foot seem to be okay. R foot is better than yesterday at least. But maybe squatting might make it worse. That's the question.

Also left hamstring seems to feel worse today than it did yesterday. It's not a soreness, feels like a pull or a strain. So not sure if squatting is a good idea for that either.

I guess i'll warm up and see how it goes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Rix on May 20, 2012, 09:08:11 am
Do you foam roll and stretch at all? If not it sounds like you could benefit quite a bit by starting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 20, 2012, 10:06:05 am
I haven't for months. I shall start now, thanks for the tip.
Title: w3,d3
Post by: entropy on May 20, 2012, 12:44:16 pm
Training
SQ 3x3 112.5 kg
BP 3x8 67.5 kg
DL 1x2 125kg
Sq was good, the 2nd set was paused. I'm confident i'll finish the month squatting 3x3x115kg. That should leave me well placed to aim for 120kg in June.

BP - i'm finding the 8th rep much harder than the ones before it. Guess i'm just not used to higher reps. Liking them so far though, hitting decent form and finding them a nice change of pace.

DL - I take 1 step forward and 2 back, every time I think i've made progress, something else looks wrong. Frustrating. Would love to have some coaching :(

R foot felt great as the workout went on. Am not worried about it anymore. Hamstring tenderness on L leg throughout the workout, although I felt a rush of endorphins through my hanstrings while doing  squats and DLs which felt magically amazing. I just hope I can get back to sprinting soon.. !

Then did some random lat pull downs and a bunch of chins and stuff, not logging them though.

Optimistic about squatting 115 and maybe 117.5 by the end of the month :)

Nutrition N: 4.5/5
Title: w4,d1
Post by: entropy on May 23, 2012, 08:51:54 am
Training
SQ 3x6 97.5kg
BP 3x8 70kg

That's it, nothing else. Could not be fucked training today and i'm not gonna do any more lifts/exercises!

My foot isn't healing :( I can't even walk 200m without withering in pain.

Did not play bball today either due to injury, sad to hear my team lost by 1 point. I would have made the difference probably. That's heart breaking too.. lol.

Ah well rest is good. I'll trainer harder and better once i'm 100% healthy. Time to push squats up in the meantime.
Title: w4,d2
Post by: entropy on May 25, 2012, 10:04:41 am
Training
SQ 3x5 107.5kg
BP 8,8,7 71kg
DL 3x127.5kg

Horrible workout. Felt weak even on lighter warmups.

Injuries update: R foot improving slightly every day, L ankle feels great day-to-day but deadlifts bother it. Dunno. Still laying off conditioning except a bit of treadmill work in the mornings.
Title: w4,d3
Post by: entropy on May 27, 2012, 01:24:32 pm
Training
SQ 3,3x115, 3x112.5kg
BP 10,10,9 65kg
DL 1x3 120kg

Did some RDLs (which I am finding quite enjoyable since I did them for the first time last workout!).

Was a great squat workout. Difficult for sure, i struggled with most reps. But my form is starting to come together nicely. I will stick with the same weight until form is picture perfect. But i'm looking good for 120kg sometime next month.

DL form improving. Will not add weight until form is perfect for ~130kg worksets.

Injuries: Woke up today with R foot feeling very much 100% normal. But I didn't dare tempt fate by doing sprints just yet. Next workout - for sure though. L ankle continues to worry me. Why isn't it healing? I injured it in feb.

Title: dear diary
Post by: entropy on May 28, 2012, 09:42:10 am
Finally went down to shoot some hoops today after 10 days. Must have picked up something from watching playoffs, perhaps by osmosis as i found my jumpshot to be much improved, reminiscent of and channelling kobe bryant. I don't even find him to be a pretty shooter, but there is an irresistibility to it too. It must be totally subconscious but i'll take it. I should be channeling james harden or manu ginobli instead, since their style of play is more attractive to me, especially as left handed man of a similar height and build, and mannerisms in the case of harden. plus he has a cool beard. ha.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on May 28, 2012, 12:03:39 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTF4Vqwq_E
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on May 29, 2012, 09:06:57 am
Never knew you were actually James Harden
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on May 30, 2012, 09:08:46 am
^lol :D
Title: w5,d1
Post by: entropy on May 30, 2012, 09:17:18 am
Training
SQ 3x6 100kg
bball match
BP 3x6 75kg

Really happy about my squat form. i love 6s. to think in a few months i'll be using my current (heavy) triples for pretty 6s. That will be ace.

Played well today, was probably my best game yet. Have lost some conditioning from the layoff.

time to bench and then get some sleep.. tiring day. can't be bothered benching tho

Decided I want to keep 6s in my bp programming. It gives me a nice change from the 10s and 8s, so i'll do em on weds.

I can't work out why i am unable to do chinups now. I've gone from a solid 7 dead hang to struggling with even a few reps. It may be all the deadliftin i'm doing now. dunno what to do about this. suppose i could try chinups before DL? will try that next time.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 01, 2012, 01:31:33 am
End of month update

Bodyweight: 85.3kg (188lb) (gone up from ~84kg)
Waist: 35.5" (gone down some)

I could swear I am leaner than 4 wks ago but the scale actually went up :/ It's been tricky with all the injuries I picked up sticking to the diet. It's usually not recommended to be on a diet while injured so that interfered on attaining the weight loss goal. But it's actually possible i haven't gained fat but i've gotten leaner too since I'm visibly leaner and the waist measurement has been consistently close to 35" than 36.5-37.5" when I started this log.

Positives: Got my squat moving again, I am scheduled to be squatting today for 3x5 what I was using for an ugly 3x3 earlier. Moreover my triples have gone up too - the forms a lot better and this time I am completely stimulant free. Have not touched any stim for over 4wks now. That was a conscious decision on my part that it's better to reach my intermediate goals of bodycomp and strength without extra assistance, so no belts, stims, psyching up etc. It's all been fairly straight forward. I also switched to higher reps on the bench which I seem to be better suited to. My deadlift form is much improved, and RDLS are proving to be the best addition to my training i've made in a long time. I can actually do them with great form, and they are working well at targeting hamstrings.

Negatives: The injuries to my right foot, my left hamstring, left ankle, and intercostals were a setback. Had to take off about 2 weeks from training normally which cost me fitness and conditioning.

Going into June: I am confident that i've overcome the injuries, the ankle is the only remaining issue, and it's getting better every day. I am going to add back sprinting and jumping, and keep my lifts moving upwards. I should be looking at squatting 125kg for triples with good form if everything goes perfectly every week. Bodycomp wise, 83kg by the end of the month is a good goal. 3kg loss over 4wks isn't going to happen unless training is compromised, 2kg is better and I would like to stick to the pace of dropping 1kg every 2 weeks. That's fairly conservative, and at the same time, 2kg is actually a solid result from my current bodycomp. I feel I am very much at the cusp of 15% bodyfat now, I should be dropping below it within a few weeks.

Also just a passing note, I don't think I will be needing to get under 80kg to get near 10% bodyfat. That's good because I have no intention to be skeletal!

June Goal: So to summarise over June avoid processed foods, keep carbs high on training days, add back sprinting and start training jumping and aim to lose a kilo a fortnight over the month. Squat over 1.5*BW (1.5*83kg ~ 125kg) for heavy triples. Stay injury free.

Title: w5,d2
Post by: entropy on June 01, 2012, 06:10:33 am
Training
SQ - 3x5 110kg
pickup bball 3hrs (had a lot of fun)

Form improvements in SQ - I noticed on video I wasn't extending the hips on the way up - which meant I was leaving the work for my lower back to GM, to finish the rep. Fixed that in the 2nd set and found it made a huge difference, found it much easier to do the workset as well as looking prettier on video.

In two minds whether or not to BP now. Think it might be better to do sprints, practice dunking, and play pickup ball then come back to bench before bed. That way i will be fresher for those activities, and I can always grind out the BP reps after. Makes sense right? Will see how it goes.

I just got back from ball. Was very fun today, I had one or two dunk attempts, unfortunately it was too crowded to do sprints or try dunking more. got one on video though -

unfortunately the quality isn't ideal but whatevers.

Skipped bench in the end .. smh .. will make up for it on sunday..
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 01, 2012, 01:30:23 pm
I wish to jump higher. What shall I do?
Title: w5,d3
Post by: entropy on June 04, 2012, 09:01:52 am
Training
SQ 2x117.5, 3,2x116, 1x115 (exhausted by the end, the 115 felt maximal and grindy but looked okish on video though)
BP 1x8 72 (PR), 1x10 68.5 (PR)
6x30m sprints, best time 5:00 (hit low 5s consistently, changed to crouching starts today)
2x30m double leg bounds, fun

that's it, wrap it up. my hamstrings have been sore ALL week. Can't explain why, must be the RDLs from last sunday, which is what 9 days ago? weird. Anyway as a result I've decided to skip DLs and RDLS since I took an extra day of rest and my next workout is in a days time so I can't go too hard today if I want to be recovered well by then.

Btw the reason I struggled with my squat today was just playing too much pickup ball on friday, and i wasn't well recovered over the weekend, even taking sunday off and lifting on monday. I should have got 3x3x117.5kg today otherwise.

Not much to add, think i'll stop playing pickup ball and stick to high quality work instead since it costs too much in terms of recovery. Sticking to the basics of strength, sprints & jumping, and meaningful practice of course. Am even thinking of quitting bball altogether, since i'm not sure it's worth the trouble at this point. I can get myself in shape better and faster and into peak athletic condition and then later try out for a better team than stick with the bottom of the heap mediocre one i'm currently with and spin my wheels with my currently limited training. Dunno.



 


Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on June 04, 2012, 09:41:59 am
Iono if i were you i wouldn't quit playing basketball. At least don't quit playing organised basketball coz it's a skill so overall you'll be a better player by just spending a lot of hours practicing on top of all the stuff you doing atm to improve your athleticism. While your playing you can still look for better teams. I can understand quitting pick up ball though. With pickup sometimes you get people that can play but 90% of the time you're just playing with scrubs who aren't gonna help you improve your game. Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 05, 2012, 02:14:18 am
15mins on TM, 5.5 speed for 10 mins after warming up 5mins @ 2.7. Next time use smaller warmup.

Have to put in the work and build an aerobic base. It's probably the best way I can improve myself at this stage. I am kicking myself for not doing so earlier, but it's never too late to start. Have to put in the hours running - it will get me leaner, build endurance/stamina and improve my recovery ability, maybe not in the short term, but it will once the base is there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 05, 2012, 02:46:21 am
Iono if i were you i wouldn't quit playing basketball. At least don't quit playing organised basketball coz it's a skill so overall you'll be a better player by just spending a lot of hours practicing on top of all the stuff you doing atm to improve your athleticism. While your playing you can still look for better teams. I can understand quitting pick up ball though. With pickup sometimes you get people that can play but 90% of the time you're just playing with scrubs who aren't gonna help you improve your game. Just my 2 cents.

You're spot on about the pickup thing. Most of the time it's a waste of time, sometimes you get a rare game which is worth it but it happens so infrequently. It takes so much out of me because I end up playing for hours and hours, but it's very low quality work, that just accumulates fatigue and there is no benefit out of it since the level of play is so low. It used to be a social thing with my friends, but none of those guys come anymore, so i'm just playing with a bunch of random scrubs, as you said, and there is no reason to have it in my training now. No more pickup games.

And that's good advice about keeping up the skill while looking for a new team. Would be a smoother transition than trying to start from scratch later, definitely. Thanks!
Title: w6,d1
Post by: entropy on June 06, 2012, 09:31:53 am
Just got back from basketball.. some observations -

Conditioning was not a problem today. Why?
- Pre/peri workout nutrition. Sipped on a shake  (~600mL half water, half lowfat milk, 2 tablespoon chocolate powder, half a scoop protein powder).
- Didn't squat before the game
- Did some treadmill work yesterday.. can it make a difference so quickly?

I'm not sure which of the above made the biggest difference, but obviously I should try to do all 3 from now on.

I only failed to run back on D twice, and both times it would have been futile cos they were fast breaks and I was too behind to catch up. My team slacks off on D meaning I have to spend extra effort making up for it. But I did well today, I lost count of how many blocks I had. It got to the point where I was more likely to block a shot than not when someone drove inside, near me. Although I did pick up 3 fouls in the 1st half, which meant I had to dial it back for the 2nd. Offence sucked, as usual. I had 3 FGA the whole game, scored 2, hit 2/4 foul shots, which I am annoyed with since I needed to score more points. Can't do anything about it. If my team worked harder at distributing the ball and playing D we'd score more points. I really can't understand why i'm not getting more looks, but it doesn't matter since it's not something I have any control over. If they weren't so slack on getting back on D, i'd be more confident hovering around the rim looking for offensive boards, but that's neither here nor there, esp when turn overs are a big problem.

But yeah the priority now is to build an aerobic base. It's the thing I lack the most and because of all the stupid HIIT shit i had read, i've neglected it. Fuck squatting, jumping, sprinting, weights all of that shit, aerobic base takes precedence. If I build up excellent conditioning, i'll be able to run up and down and play awesome D, and go forward on offensive, pick up boards and maybe score some points.

Training
Bball match
SQ - 3x6 101kg
BP - 3x6 76kg

SQ was stupidly hard today. Even warming up with the bar felt difficult, my knees were complaining. So I chilled around for about 4 hours and then tried again at midnigh. My left knee actually hurt after the first workset and I had to take the bar out backwards for the remaining 2 sets. That addressed the knee pain thankfully.

BP was ok today.

Finished off with 4 sets of chins, got a nice arm pump. All in all glad to punch in and get this workout in. Was inclined to skip it after the draining game but couldn't go to bed missing a workout. This will be a hard week with 5 back to back workouts.

Title: w6,d2
Post by: entropy on June 08, 2012, 10:26:18 am
Training
SQ 3x5 111kg
BP 10x69.5 (PR)
DL 3x130kg
RDL 8x 80,75kg
2km run in 20 mins @  6km/hr , 2 incline - covered

SQ was very hard and form was awful. BP I didn't have any idea what weights/reps/sets to do today, so casually worked up to a max of 95kg which I didn't try to get off my chest, i knew i was going to fail it. Should have gone with 92kg but it's all good. I haven't got any programming for friday bench. I'm just going to freestyle it? Might start playing with overhead presses too. Why not? Set a new 10RM on BP which is welcome within my new training philosophy that any progress is great, whether for reps or for weight. Interestingly when I failed the 95kg, i could wiggle under it easily, which means i've lost a fair bit of weight since the last time I got pinned down it was a big struggle crawling out. One day i'll get that 100kg close grip BP and i'll be happy, till then, keep adding reps and see where it takes me, so far it's working, i feel much better underneath the bar and my form is solid and progress with reps seems to be coming along nicely.

DL sucked. The weights are very light and fly up, but my form sucks, with horrible back position both at the start of the lift and putting the bar down. I don't know why I bother with this exercise. Am thinking now to make the RDL the main exercise and let DL be an assistance one. My RDLs look picture perfect compared to DL. That way i'll get the benefits of doing a hip hinge ex correctly from the RDL and I can probably start doing rack pulls then to still keep pulling heavy just with good form. Why not?

Oh and I did Chins before DL today which worked quite well, so keep doing that too.

No sprinting today because it has been raining and the grass will be wet.

Randomly decided to do aerobic work, feels good man. I should do this 3x a week on every training day. Why not? It's great.
Title: w6,d3
Post by: entropy on June 10, 2012, 01:03:42 pm
Training
SQ 3,2x117.5; 1x116
BP 4x79.5, 4x79
PR 3x55
3km in 26mins @ 7km/hr

incremental progress in squatting.. repeat same weight next sunday, hopefully i'll get 3x3 with good form then.
BP did some 4s today and some presses for the first time, felt okish, should be able to work up steadily in weight next coupla weeks. I am told press loves frequency and bp loves volume, so i might do press every workout and work up to a heavy triple, then finish it off with a bunch of volume in BP for 6+ reps.

The run was a bit harder than i expected.. the pace might be too high but all the same this tells me i'm currently fit enough to run for 25 mins straight and cover 3km, which can't be that bad. As a goal, i'm thinking being able to run an effortless 5km in 30mins will be a great goal. If i have that kind of fitness that should mean a decent aerobic base such that conditioning for basketball is adequate. 

This week i ran 5km total, starting from 0km/week normally. I'm kickign myself for not adding running earlier, it's probably the best thing i have done training wise in years. it will get me leaner, fitter, and more athletic. why didn't i think of it sooner?
Title: w7,d1
Post by: entropy on June 13, 2012, 06:41:39 am
Training
Sq 3x6 102.5
Basketball game - 40mins no subs
BP 3x6 77

Ok, i've decided if we are going to lose games every week, i'm going to go down swinging. There is no reason why i'm taking < 5 FGA a game, when i'm easily the best player on the team by far. Will play tonight as though it's my last game ever. Superstar mode enabled. brb getting our first win.

Didn't win :( But i did everything i could.. frustrating. we were within 6 points (amazing for us) towards the end, i got a steal in the last 30 sec, and quickly went up for a layup, got fouled, just missed the layup .. if i had hit it, and made the and1 wud have had a chance to take a 3 to tie the game. but alas it wasn't to be. turnovers killed us, stupid ones too, like being called for carrying the ball.. scrub level mistakes. it was discouraging to play solid defense, run back on o, and just watch us turn over the ball...

looks wise, had to practically beg for the ball .. i think i've pissed off our point guard cos he doesn't want to pass to me :( honestly what we're missing right now is a decent shooting guard. we need a guard who can score.. atm our one half ok guard is reluctant to play point, he just doesn't give a fuck about running the ball. i don't blame him, we don't have the best candidates for passes lol. but even when he does decide to pass, he takes a million seconds before deciding to pass, which pisses me off cos i like a fast paced style gane and don't like it when the defense has too long to figure out what's going on: just pass is quickly!!.. if you take too long, i dont even want the ball anymore lol. our other guard is a highly functioning retard.. he can barely get from one side of the court to the other without turning it over.. so sad .. :(

There was a point at half time when the scores were teh same. We have a quick chat at the break, and a team mates is saying 'good job guys, your position on D was perfect' and im thkning no shit, i've played my heart out,  blocked every single shot inside, helped out my team mate at the right wing, and boxed out for rebounds perfectly.. it wasn't an accidient! but what i really wanted to say was, you faggots need to pass me the ball more, how else do you think we will score? And of course you can't say that because it's impolite and greedy .. but it's also the truth lol!!!  im fairly sure i scored at least half of my teams points despite having too few shots :/

have started asking around if there any teams looking for players. i watched a game after us and someone told me they possibly needed an extra player. but although they are 10x better than my current team, i don't think i'd fit in there.. they are still a bit too shit, even though i'm not looking for a too polished team either. will keep looking! i just don't think people respond well to random guys approaching them to join their team. I asked one team which i like and who beat us a few weeks back if they needed a player. and he seemed receptive, said sometimes they need a sub, but when i asked him if he wanted my phone number he said, i'll just see you next week yeh? lol.. so he was just humouring me.

oh fuck in all my rambling dear diary above, i forgot to mention conditioning was much improved even playing the full game without sitting out. we don't stop much either since there were few foul calls and no time outs either. i'm ascribing it to the 5km i ran last week, so it's clearly helping with aerobic fitness. so this week i'm gonna try to run ~6km.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: chrisbro1 on June 14, 2012, 02:49:35 pm
Passing isn't the only way to get the ball in your hands, you can also grab the rebound and keep it.   If i'm on a team and I don't feel like I'm getting enough touches  I focus on getting the rebound.  If the pace is too slow for your liking get the defensive rebound and push the ball yourself.  You may need to work on your handle, if you do the drills here the prescribed # of times every day for a week you should have more than sufficient handle for pushing the ball.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cen1bKmicg  Bottomline, if they're not giving you the opportunities you deserve create your own opportunities and show them why they're better off with the ball in your hands.

I know you're easing back into things after an injury but I'd still focus on picking up the speed of your runs as opposed to worrying about distance.  7km/hr is very slow especially for someone who prefers an uptempo game.  To give an idea of what that would require, the really fit guys on my team who can run up and down the court all day train intervals in the 13k-20k/hr range for 20-30min.  

Anyway, good luck w/the team and keep up the hard work.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 15, 2012, 10:32:43 am
Passing isn't the only way to get the ball in your hands, you can also grab the rebound and keep it.   If i'm on a team and I don't feel like I'm getting enough touches  I focus on getting the rebound.  If the pace is too slow for your liking get the defensive rebound and push the ball yourself.  You may need to work on your handle, if you do the drills here the prescribed # of times every day for a week you should have more than sufficient handle for pushing the ball. Bottomline, if they're not giving you the opportunities you deserve create your own opportunities and show them why they're better off with the ball in your hands.

On defense we play 2-3 zone and i'm back on the wing, so when I've got the rebound 9/10 players on the court are already infront of me, so when pushing up i'd still be behind a bunch of them. If i push hard I can usually get past a lot of them, and my handles are ok for dribbling past most smaller guys who gamble for the steal, especially when they think i'm going to be uncordinated for my size. But i realise now that I take the foot of the pedal just past 1/2 court and allow the chance someone will steal it from behind. The reason why I do that is I don't want to be greedy, and I want to let some of my team mates catch up, and hopefully i can get an assist. But if I made up my mind to go all the way, I think I would score more often than not. Especially considering if we let them setup their usual zone defense before we attack, we're never going to get past the top 3 defenders. We don't have the perimeter shooting and our guards can't get the ball past them. But I get what you mean. I should just push it hard all the way to the rim if i've pulled down a board, that's not selfish. I'd definitely try that next game, and in the meantime i'll work on my handles with the video. Thank you for showing me a different way of looking at things, appreciate it.

Quote
I know you're easing back into things after an injury but I'd still focus on picking up the speed of your runs as opposed to worrying about distance.  7km/hr is very slow especially for someone who prefers an uptempo game.  To give an idea of what that would require, the really fit guys on my team who can run up and down the court all day train intervals in the 13k-20k/hr range for 20-30min. 

Healing my ankle is kind of my priority right now. I know when I do sprints, it puts a lot of stress on my ankle and I think it sets back healing. I'd love to be sprinting regularly. Once i'm healthy i will change priority to sprinting. I've never sprinted until this year and it's terribly exciting for me each time I set a new PR - but i have to be patient and not push too hard right now. The same goes for jumping. Plyometric stuff is very hard on the ankle and i feel it afterwards. In the meantime i'm happy with gently pushing my squat up and spending some time building up aerobic endurance. I have never done running before so i've probably missed out on the benefits of aerobic work (health benefits like low resting heart rate etc). I also find that running on the treadmill for distance/time is fairly gentle on my ankle compared to sprinting.

I also realise my times are quite slow for now, but it's early days, considering today was just the 3rd time running kms. Maybe it wont help me at all and i'm just wasting time, but i'm happy to experiment. If after a few weeks I realise it's not doing anything for my athletisicm then i'll back off the longer runs. You are right that 7km/hr is slow but it's kind of the aerobic sweet spot for me atm, it's the pace where I can run but not go anerobic and get lactic acid buildup. It's not supposed to mimic game conditions like your team mates who can do  impressive 13-20km/hr intervals (sounds like a good goal for me to work up to though) . i'm using the guidelines from the HIIT myth ebook (link below) which try to keep the heart rate down so you're in teh aerobic zone. I don't have a heart rate monitor but i'm going by feel for now. Probably shouldn't even be as high as 7km/hr to be honest. I tried 8km/hr today and after 5 minutes I knew there was no way i was gonna run 25minutes at that pace.

Quote
Anyway, good luck w/the team and keep up the hard work.

Thank you and I appreciate you stopping by!


http://anthonymychal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/TheMythofHIIT.pdf
Title: w7,d2
Post by: entropy on June 15, 2012, 10:38:19 am
Training
SQ 3x5 112.5
BP 9,8x70 (new 9RM), 1x5x60
25 min run @ ~7.3km/hr, 3.1km (started at 8km/hr but couldn't sustain it and dropped down to 7km/hr at around 5 mins in)

Next week repeat the squat weight. Dont go up on the 5s until form is perfect.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 17, 2012, 10:50:10 am
Made some bad decisions today. There was a team training session planned, and I had to choose between lifting and going to training. Got there and realised it was a mistake because there were only 4 of us there, and they were playing 4v4 half court pickup games with some random guys. I wish I hadn't bothered driving there cos it took me 40mins and i missed my gym session for it. Didn't end up doing anything meaningful, i was hoping to run some plays but it was pointless with the low turnout. I said fuck it im here now and jumped into playing pickup. I was rested/fresh I felt amazingly athletic. I was hitting 8/10 of my shots, even nailed 3/4 of my 3point attempts and scoring a will, droving inside at will finishing off the glass or hitting a jumper. Got to say, if you play pickup the right way, it's actually a good way to practice different things. I tried posting up for instance, which i'd been inspired to having watched Lebron's play.

But oveall i'm regretting it now because i'd rather have squatted. Won't beat myself up too much, I made the wrong choice, it happens. Knees were complaining from running on the treadmill. Have to make some adjustments, i need my knees man and i've never had problems with them, so I don't want to mess that up now by doing some dumbshit choices. I think running on grass is best.



Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Rix on June 18, 2012, 07:24:27 am
Can you bail on that team?
I know you're shopping around for teams more at your level but it sounds like those guys are really bringing you down. I'm sure you enjoy the organized play, counted points, refs calling fouls, shit like that...But is it really worth it? With your knees acting up the amount of time you can ball hard is reduced and I think you would benefit more from doing some solo drills.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 18, 2012, 08:24:57 am
Can you bail on that team?

There is only one team mate i'd feel bad letting down. Him, because he's actually making an effort and improving himself each week. He's come a long way from the start of the season and I know he actually gives a fuck, shows up to training and listens. The rest? Not really.

Quote
I know you're shopping around for teams more at your level but it sounds like those guys are really bringing you down. I'm sure you enjoy the organized play, counted points, refs calling fouls, shit like that...But is it really worth it? With your knees acting up the amount of time you can ball hard is reduced and I think you would benefit more from doing some solo drills.

Wondering the same thing - if it's worth the frustration. I like your idea better, to go underground for a few months and come back as a lean, mean, athletic machine and kick some ass. Seriously, just concentrate on getting my bodycomp right and improving skills and athleticism. Then i'd only be worrying about things I CAN CONTROL and not a team that's a source of frustration and disappointment.
Title: w7,d3
Post by: entropy on June 18, 2012, 09:50:23 am
Training
SQ - 3x120kg (5 month best), 7x100kg (PR)
BP - 1x92.5kg (PR!), 10x70kg (PR!)
10x30m sprints (5 warmups, 5 recorded time - 83, 83, 78, 65, 86 - new PR - 04:65!!)

Psyched myself up to lift today even though my knees were complaining even getting out of bed and sitting up from a chair. I spend a bit of time warming up them carefully - then went for it. I realised if I didn't train today, I wouldn't lift again til wednesday, meaning a 4 day break, which is bad news since my lifts go down rapidly on layoff. In the end I was really happy with training today. It's not every day you get 3 PRs - feels good man.

Breaking my sprint PR from 4:95 which I could never break to consistently breaking it today is just awesome. If I was to say why it happened, it's because I tried to pump my arms hard, which i never used to do until today. I picked that up from watching some youtube celebrity, forget his name, he's pretty famous for doing music videos and skits. The scary thing is, I'm not sure i've peaked. I can do a lot better than this - esp since i haven't sprinted in over 2 weeks, and today was the first time this month I felt healthy enough to go all out. The weathers been good, stopped raining, suns come out and it dried away the wet grass, was still a bit dewy though, but I didn't notice it when running though.

I decided I didn't want to do three heavy triples on my last workout of the week. It's gotten pretty heavy, and my form goes out of the window in sets 2 and 3. Mentally it's gotten very intimidating. Now I'd rather just psyche up and go all out with 1 heavy set and then finish off with backoff work. This workout isn't for getting stronger, that happens during the other 2 squat sessions. The heavy triple is just for setting a new PR. After the heavy triple, I took weight off the bar and did 100 for 7 reps. I had another rep or 2 in me, but I wasn't looking to set a new RM. My goal with the 2nd set is to add reps. If I can take my 7x100 to 10x105 or even 10x110 the 1RM calculator says my 1RM can go upto 150kg. Which is crazy. Because that means just working hard in the higher reps, in that narrow 10kg range of 100kg to 110kg, I can get still get a lot stronger. So why not do that in addition to doing heavy 5s and 3s as well as continuing with the 6s which are serving me very well too. It saves me burning out from grinding out sets across with heavy weights which fucking sucks.

92.5kg close grip felt good - i'm gonna be ambitious and try 95kg at the end of the month. I have a feeling I have it in me. That would bring me a step closer to the magic 100kg goal in the coming month/s.

Oh and i've decided to follow the good advice i've gotten to skip the distance running. I don't fucking need it. 20-30minutes shooting hoops is aerobic for me. So why the fuck would i beat up my knees on a treadmill when I could be working on something I enjoy as well as improving my skills in my sport? Exactly.

As far as conditioning goes, i'll ease myself gently into intervals and just build up slowly over time. I tend to be super skeptical of training advice after being burned before, but in this case i'm coming around to the idea now. I just have to be smart about training now. I am just coming out of injuries and if I pick my battles, I can improve across the board by budgeting my recovery sensibly.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: chrisbro1 on June 18, 2012, 02:23:41 pm
saw your question yesterday about training w/a heavy basketball.  I know a few basketball trainers and coaches and I've seen them used to improve ball handling skills, develop soft hands for catching passes in traffic and to increase upper body stamina at the end of workouts via layup drills, tipping drills or Mikan drills but I've never seen anyone use it to improve shooting.  Personally, there's no way I'd use one for shooting because of the risk of it throwing off the mechanics of my shot.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 19, 2012, 05:17:00 am
saw your question yesterday about training w/a heavy basketball.  I know a few basketball trainers and coaches and I've seen them used to improve ball handling skills, develop soft hands for catching passes in traffic and to increase upper body stamina at the end of workouts via layup drills, tipping drills or Mikan drills but I've never seen anyone use it to improve shooting.  Personally, there's no way I'd use one for shooting because of the risk of it throwing off the mechanics of my shot.

Thank you. I need to work on all those areas so i'm going to make heavy use of the ball when it arrives. Ashamed to admit that I never learnt to do layups with my non-dexterous hand. Currently working on that and it's pretty awkward but i'm getting there.  Reading about the Mikan drill now while writing this post and damn that's exactly what I need.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 19, 2012, 06:34:22 am
Damn.. spent the evening analysing video of shooting practice. I've figured out why my jumpshot sucks. I tend to push the ball out of my hand. I never realised this because I still manage to put a fair bit of arc on the ball by flicking my wrist as it leaves. So it never occured to me that I was pushing it away, but it's quite clear from the video. The tell tale sign of this is instead of my shooting hand being perfectly vertical at the end of the shot - it is actually inclined something like 45 to the vertical. This would explain why I can shot a lot better with a lighter ball. It's easier to push of course.

Also note to self. If i have a 22" SVJ, why the fuck am I only getting like 6" off the ground when shooting? I am not saying I should be hitting 20" on every shot but still - the disparity is troubling.

So next time I work on my shooting, keep in mind the shooting arm should finish vertically. Which might mean I have to start learning to shoot from scratch. The elbow thing i'd heard about before makes a lot more sense now. When thinking in terms of high elbow you're unconsciously setting up a more vertical finish. I also think I might be holding the ball wrong too - because what's best for pushing the ball out, is not good for flicking the wrist violently. So keep that in mind also.

edits..

Watching game 2 of the NBA finals and I noticed Durant who is said to be a "pure" shooter has a similar predicament. But in his case, it might just be that his freaky wingspan makes it necessary. Bosh shoots similarly too. Need to look further into all this :/
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on June 19, 2012, 11:31:12 am
post video.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 20, 2012, 02:02:20 am
okay, compare the text book

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM

where there the elbow snaps violently upwards ending in an almost vertical arm

and durant at 01:29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI

he does not snap his elbow.. he straightens his arm but it ends up being somewhere between horizontal and vertical to his body.

my footage from yesterday below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4
Title: w8,d1
Post by: entropy on June 20, 2012, 02:01:09 pm
Training
SQ 3x6 103.5kg
BBall match

didn't get time to bench after the game, went out to have dinner with my friends and it got late.

Game sucked. My team mates played like pussies, not much more to say.
Title: Re: w8,d1
Post by: Rix on June 21, 2012, 06:52:31 am
Game sucked. My team mates played like pussies, not much more to say.

I think you owe it to yourself to quit the team. The one friend you don't want to disappoint...well, you don't owe him anything. Tell him what the deal is and hopefully he will understand where you're coming from. If he doesn't then that's his problem. You gotta put yourself first.

Took a look at those videos with the shooting technique. My view on that (for what it's worth) is everyone has a unique style to shooting; whatever feels comfortable. As long as you can be consistent with your form I don't think there's any reason to try and change it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 21, 2012, 07:35:56 am
Thank you Rix. Will take your advice and have a word with him and take it from there.

I just got back from shooting practice now. Would have liked to have video to review but it was too dark and my camera doesn't work very well in low light. Here is what I tried and how it worked out -

1. Tried having elbow very high making shooting arm almost vertical at the end of the shot. Result: The ball goes too high into the sky, i'm pretty sure that it's never going to be the right shot for me. I can see someone with short arms and of a smaller height shooting like that to get a good arc - but for me it just ends up with a comically high arc.

2. Then i adjusted my usual form by bringing the ball release to occur closer to my head and with a higher release point than usual. This actually felt pretty good. Arc felt like normal, didn't feel like it was skying the ball high. The ball drops softer too, which is good since you don't want to hit the rim too hard (if you hit the rim that is). I think my ideal form is closer to this, i still want to experiment a bit more tinkering with shot release.

So i think i've improved my shot some. I wish I had video to confirm it looks prettier but I will have to wait till practice under better light to have proof. Funnily enough I hit more shots from 3pt line than from inside. Would be interesting to look at the video and try to figure out why that is.

As far as basketball goes, a few good friends of mine might be putting together a team to play in the season starting end of august. That's plenty of time to lose these last few kilos and get in shape.

Bodyweight: 85.3kg
Title: w8,d2
Post by: entropy on June 22, 2012, 09:03:22 am
Training
SQ 6x95, 4x90
pickup ball
bp 3x6 78

Felt weak in the gym warming up, the last warmup set of 105x1 felt heavy, so i wasn't going to be able to hit 3x5 112.5kg. Which is just as well, because i'd been thinking of changing the friday workout to something else anyway.

I only went to play pickup ball today because i was hoping to spend some time playing ball with my friends who I wanted to make a new team with. I think now it's pretty clear that is a terrible idea. We have zero chemistry playing together, to the point where it just felt wrong to be on the court together at the same time. I basically felt out of place the whole time. I only had fun when at the end i picked two of the smallest scrubs to play with me for 3 vs 3  against my friends. And then I had a good game finally - hitting 2 jumpers, a three, and posting up 3 times against my friends who I wanted to show what they'd been missing by not involving me more during our earlier games. I can see being very frustrated with them if we were to play together in a proper full court game. But wait there is more.

In the midst of one of the chaotic pickup games, I was getting frustrated at being fouled by every single guy around me which I didn't call myself, but then they were calling the softest fouls themselves. At one point, I came down awkwardly and I felt my left ankle twist. It wasn't so bad that I was limping or anything like that - it just feels really tender now. So i think i managed to re-injure it playing a pointless pickup game. I told my friends this was the last time i'd ever play pickup, and i'll never come back there again to play against scrubs who carry, travel and foul too much, and even if they don't it's not competitive enough to make it worth being there and the chance of injury landing on some uncoordinated guy's foot is too high.

So no more basketball for the next few months. I'm just going to lay off my ankle and let it heal, and try to lose some fat in the mean time. If i can squat, i'll squat, but no balling or running until i'm confident it's 100% ok. i'll work on perfecting my shooting and ball handling (i realised today i depend too much on my left hand when being pressed with a double team) and try out for a good team around my area. And if it doesn't happen, that's ok too, lifes too short to stress about this stuff.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: creativelyric on June 22, 2012, 01:43:39 pm
okay, compare the text book

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euY_hdJc4nM

where there the elbow snaps violently upwards ending in an almost vertical arm

and durant at 01:29s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhz_ZyMigI

he does not snap his elbow.. he straightens his arm but it ends up being somewhere between horizontal and vertical to his body.

my footage from yesterday below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56J2W8eP7g4

Consider the difference of leverages. Stephen Curry needs that shot to be released very quick and high so that his shot isn't bothered by more athletic, longer guards/forwards on him. Durant is basically 7 feet and has a very long wingspan, so his shot is very fluid and more natural-- following through towards the basket.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: chrisbro1 on June 22, 2012, 02:45:21 pm

Consider the difference of leverages. Stephen Curry needs that shot to be released very quick and high so that his shot isn't bothered by more athletic, longer guards/forwards on him. Durant is basically 7 feet and has a very long wingspan, so his shot is very fluid and more natural-- following through towards the basket.

That's true in retrospect.  It's hard to say if those were factors when they began to play basketball. For example Durant may not have been tall and lanky at 7 or 8 years old when he began playing and even if he were it may not have mattered if he routinely played against older & taller competition. According to wikipedia he was 6'2 through his Jr year in HS so he wasn't always significantly taller than the competition.

The difference is more than likely attributable to the instruction of whomever taught them how to shoot which is why Curry's shot looks just like his father's.  Really, as long as you keep the ball on your fingertips, put in a ton of practice and keep your form consistent then you should be able to become a good shooter even if your form isn't perfect (think reggie miller.)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 22, 2012, 03:01:42 pm
Chris makes a good point about ingrained early habits, which I hadn't though of but agrees with my general impression of creative's post.

Creative's theory seems to fits the data very well, it matches up with intuition. But one thing i've learnt is that there are often many different theories which fit very well. Whether or not it's actually true is a different matter. If we had data for release trajectories for different players you could check if creative's theory agrees with the data. Just to make it clear, I am not disputing creative, I just don't know for sure. It certainly seems to agree with common sense but intuition can be wrong.

Btw chris, last night I watched a very long video [1] on shooting, and in it the coach says holding the ball in the fingertips is a mistake. He actually encourages his shooters to touch the ball with the whole hand for better stability and control. So like you said, it depends who taught you and how. But I can't help thing that there must be a 'natural' shooting form which if you're seeking it, must be unique for a given individual and body proportions.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bbd0vOqCOPo
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: chrisbro1 on June 22, 2012, 04:05:09 pm
Btw chris, last night I watched a very long video [1] on shooting, and in it the coach says holding the ball in the fingertips is a mistake. He actually encourages his shooters to touch the ball with the whole hand for better stability and control.

I have these videos...he uses more hand than I do, but I think that's because he  uses a more relaxed finger spread whereas I prefer a wider spread.  By "keeping it on the fingertips" I meant keeping the ball from resting on the palm while shooting so I don't think he and I disagree much.  I learned from the old pistol pete series http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-nV0Gzof_0 though I have problems keeping my elbow in because of my build
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 23, 2012, 03:10:08 am
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61aJkecq5hL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg)

Reading this book ^ .. Will be posting any interesting things I can find in it.

The author Fontanella says MJ gets a higher release point on his J by extending his legs (so they're straight) as well as pointing his toes down to the ground. This raises his Center of Mass higher, leading to a higher release point.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 23, 2012, 11:07:06 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnbKqMHgGmc

Thought to look on youtube for how to tape an ankle. Was blown away with some of the stuff i came across. So I went to the pharmacy and came back with some new stuff, and as a result, I've taped my ankle really well for the first time, feels amazingly stable and firm, and it doesn't feel like I could hurt it by accident. Feel 100% safe and secure.

The only downside, and I was hoping it wouldn't happen, is losing much ROM that I can't squat down.  I will have to lay off squatting and do a lot of RDLs and focus on upper body. I could even join a gym for a few weeks. They will have dumbells and machines there. Should be fun. Ideas on upper body training? Would like to add a few inches to my guns and look like somone who lifts. Thinking lots of bench press, overhead press, chinups, lat pull downs, rows and curls. Perhaps 4-5 times a week.
Title: w1,d1
Post by: entropy on June 25, 2012, 08:42:38 am
Training
SQ - 2x6 104kg
Partial SQ, 3x120, 2x125
BP - 3x6 77.5kg
RDL - 2x8x80,3x85,3x90,2x95

Knee pain, as might be expected when squatting with a taped up ankle. But otherwise I can squat ok. I felt the deeper I go, the more  ankle flexion occurs, the more it hurts my ankle.

Today for some reason I thought to try partial squats. Looking at the video, with my long limbs, it still looks like a legitimate exercise. I can imagine a small person not doing much work with partial squats, but for me, it looks like a genuine lift. I mean someone 5'7" even full squatting looks a bit like a ezy peazy curtsey to me, nevermind their partial. But discovering how wonderful partial squats are to do makes me question the whole zealous dogma surrounding full squats. But for me right now, the main advantage is that works well with restricted ankle ROM. I also felt it target my quads very well, which was surprising. Will explore them further. Wish I had sooner, I guess I could afford to be even more open minded than I thought I was when it comes to training.

Lots of RDLs. I love this exercise. I am going to aim to my worksets up to 100kg asap. Basically RDL every time I go to my gym.

BP was rather challenging, found myself struggling with the latter warmups and the worksets were definitely maximal. Layoffs do that to me, apparently, even just a week between benching. Chins were difficult too. Upper body detrained.

Oh yea this is the start of a new training cycle with a focus on rehab, attaining full mobility and doing a lot of upper body lifts, RDLs and partial squats.
Title: Re: w1,d1
Post by: vag on June 25, 2012, 09:23:15 am
Today for some reason I thought to try partial squats. Looking at the video, with my long limbs, it still looks like a legitimate exercise. I can imagine a small person not doing much work with partial squats, but for me, it looks like a genuine lift. I mean someone 5'7" even full squatting looks a bit like a ezy peazy curtsey to me, nevermind their partial. But discovering how wonderful partial squats are to do makes me question the whole zealous dogma surrounding full squats. But for me right now, the main advantage is that works well with restricted ankle ROM. I also felt it target my quads very well, which was surprising. Will explore them further. Wish I had sooner, I guess I could afford to be even more open minded than I thought I was when it comes to training.

Welcome to my world!
I have had those thoughts about full/half squats in relation with long legs ( mine are ~38'' to hip joint with a height just under 6' ) for many years now.
I think that the answer is that we are WEAK AS SHIT and we tend to favour the half squats because we can lift more weight there. Having long-ass limbs makes it even worse , because it amplifies the full/partial squat strength gap.
Using both is not bad though, just imho make sure to stick with the (lighter) full squats for strength gains, use partials for specifity/stim/peaking.

Just 2 bro-science cents :D
Title: w1,d2
Post by: entropy on June 27, 2012, 12:33:06 pm
Training
SQ 5x100kg
BP 5x60kg
Basketball

I wanted to take it easy in the gym. But probably not this easy, it turns out I couldn't have done much more if I had wanted to anyway. I found it hard to rep heavy, hit a max of 117.5kg and dropped down to 100kg to do some reps but found it hard. I just can't squat properly without bothering my ankle. I tried different stances, and some are better than others. Doesn't matter, i'm hoping I can get a PR on friday.

I got roped into playing another basketball game. What can I say, am addicted to basketball lol. Texted my team mate and said, ok i'll play today but it's my last one.  On the way there I was thinking how badly I wanted that W and i'd do everything I could to get it.  I know we suck, but surely if I played like a beast we could still win? We played the 3rd top team, and they were a lot better than us. Put it this way, any one of their players would be the 2nd best player on ours, by a large margin. The odds were not so good but I thought there is nothing to lose here. Fuck it lets have fun. My plan was, dominate the game early, and then take the pressure off my team mates, and then bring them into the game more once we had a decent lead and the pressure was lifted. Pressure on poor players sucks, it leads to turnovers and transition baskets, and it was my duty to take the burden of pressure, so they didn't have to. This way I can only blame myself for not doing more, rather than my team mates who can't help it. I mean sure they could improve themselves but lets be realistic that's not going to happen, and during a game isn't the time to improve lol.

To cut a long story short I ended up scoring 75% of my teams points and only missed a few attempts in teh 2nd half. My FG% was around 70% working it now. I LOVED this game, they were a good opponent, and I had to earn every basket I scored. It just felt like no one could stop me. Double triple teams, it didn't matter, I kept my dribble and the harder they guarded me, the better I played. Now you're probably thinking if you were being double teamed why didn't you hit the open man. Because my plan was to keep the pressure on myself. Sure I could dish it out after attracting the defense, but then i'd have to watch the pressure collapse on any one of my team mates who would immediately turn it over. I know it sucks, what I'd give for JUST ONE GOOD SHOOTER, but that's the sad reality.

I think though, I should have found a way to get the ball to one team mate in the many fast breaks who ran with me, just to keep him interested. But then it annoys me how people don't try to get open. I mean get out there move, do something, and in those 50%-50% situations, i'm going to choose to pass every time than hold on to it. But that's on me, I should have found a way to pass those. It's not easy when my team mate runs into the defense rather than moving away, but suppose I could fake it or something, get the defense to bite, and then pass it. I should have done that I guess. But it shouldn't be my job to make a team mate more open if you know what I mean. Guess it's a chemistry thing, if we played together more often, we'd have an understanding of what to do in those situations and then you could play together with a common purpose.

We lost though. I don't think I could have done much more myself. I mean I could have hit those 4-5 shots I missed, I suppose. But that wouldn't have made the difference. The problem was, and i'm kicking myself for not doing something about it during the game, is bringing the ball up, it was in the wrong person's hand, as in the weaker players. Like 5-10 turnovers, that become fast breaks baskets. Those killed us. The solution would have been to play point and bring it up myself. There is only one other player on my team who can bring it up (our guard) but he has no interest. He's the first person back on offense, and I know he doesn't want to bring it up. He doesn't give a fuck about that stuff, which is why I don't think he's a genuine point guard. And that leaves our weaker players to bring it up. And they can't do it. I should have brought it up more often. Would have made a huge difference.

I got a bunch of blocks, and I didn't play bad D. I just don't understand why we allow so many points to be scored against us. Must be some obvious thing i'm missing. If only there was a tape, cud go thru it and see what goes wrong.

Ah well, basketball is fun. I can't wait to get my heavy ball and work on my jump shooting. If I become a good shooter, I can see me hitting 3s during games which will be nice. And this was the first game where I left the court thinking, I am not frustrated today. The reason for that is, if I kept the pressure on myself, then I can't blame my team mates for stealing my chance to do better, if that makes sense. I am not even disappointing in yet another L - there is only so much you can do, and if you do your best, then it's easier to walk away without winning.




Title: heavy balls
Post by: entropy on June 28, 2012, 07:25:24 am
Got my heavy ball :D First impressions, it's just like a normal ball but heavier lol. ~3x heavier than normal, it weighs 1.5kg.

Went to shoot around with it, and quickly realised I wasn't going to be shooting 3pts  with it. Even free throws are too far. But around the foul circle (i think this is the right term, basketball terms confuse me) closest to the rim is fine. I can shoot mostly normally from there. Anyway here are my initial observations. There is a potentiating effect to using a heavy ball. Even just holding it and touching it carries over to finding a normal ball feather light. I think spending a few minutes with the heavy ball just dribbling it does the trick. After that, I just used the normal ball to shoot and this is where interesting things happened.

1. The normal ball being lighter now meant I could try form corrections that were prohibitive before. By that I mean, a change of form which would have resulted in airballs before, now became feasible, so I could technically alter my shooting form without penalty. This is exciting stuff. See #2.

2. I tried a particular form correction which I had been reading about - basically my non shooting hand should be more perpendicular to my shooting hand. This removes the chance of side spin. Yes yes, it works very well. I started swishing shots with consistency i've seldom experienced before.

Finished off with shooting a bunch of free throws, to really cement the new shooting form. I was consistently hitting strings of 6-7 shots in a row before a miss.  Which is much better than before.

So to summarise I think the heavy ball has already proven to be a great addition to training. I completely forgot to take a camera but i'm sure it will show a prettier jumpshot. To all those people who think you can't change your shooting form, yes perhaps it's not possible, because changes to form might find particular physical weaknesses that prohibit shooting well but working with a heavy ball overcomes those limitations so you can actually make form corrections that work better. That was my experience today.

Btw, I shot around for about an hour, the time spend with the heavy ball was probably around 5 minutes. The potentiated effect lasted the full hour. The normal ball never got lighter.

I also saw noticeable and impressive improvements in ball handling and dribbling. I could dribbble much faster and my handles seemed to magically improve.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on June 28, 2012, 09:40:04 am


Thought to look on youtube for how to tape an ankle. Was blown away with some of the stuff i came across. So I went to the pharmacy and came back with some new stuff, and as a result, I've taped my ankle really well for the first time, feels amazingly stable and firm, and it doesn't feel like I could hurt it by accident. Feel 100% safe and secure.

The only downside, and I was hoping it wouldn't happen, is losing much ROM that I can't squat down.  I will have to lay off squatting and do a lot of RDLs and focus on upper body. I could even join a gym for a few weeks. They will have dumbells and machines there. Should be fun. Ideas on upper body training? Would like to add a few inches to my guns and look like somone who lifts. Thinking lots of bench press, overhead press, chinups, lat pull downs, rows and curls. Perhaps 4-5 times a week.

empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on June 28, 2012, 11:21:12 am
I would never play with a taped "fixed" ankle... no thanks, I don't want an injured knee because of it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 29, 2012, 08:11:04 am
empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.

pretty general remark bro, in which case in particular? Preventative? Rehab? Chronic? Etc.

Quote from: Raptor
I would never play with a taped "fixed" ankle... no thanks, I don't want an injured knee because of it.
I would have said the same thing but somehow taping it PROPERLY made a huge difference. I haven't had knee probs since taping it firmly.
Title: w1,d3
Post by: entropy on June 29, 2012, 08:17:32 am
Training
SQ 2x122.5kg (2RM PR), 8x100kg (8 rep PR), 8x90kg
BP 1x85kg, 0x93.75kg, 10x70kg (was amibitious attempting a PR today since i haven't been benching much lately)
6x~30m sprints (best time 5:13 - yea blah, was snail like today)
RDL 3x100kg (3PR), 10x80kg (8PR)

The best thing about training today was my ankle didn't bother me during squats!!! I decided to keep the "weight" over my ankle in a particular way, which seemed to work. I really wanted a triple but the 2nd was maximal and I would have probably failed the 3rd. Ah well im confident next week i'll have a triple and maybe even for 125kg. That would be sick.

Ran some sprints. They sucked. Grass was wet, i felt fatigued after all the squats. Note to self don't do too many sets of squats before sprinting. Just the heavy ones, then one set for reps. Sprint then do the remaining sets. That will work better. Oh and I just didn't feel so good sprinting. Felt sluggish, I think it's because of the taped ankle too. I tried to remember the form tips I picked up from reading posts in the forum, but only found myself confused hearing Avishek's refrain saying its bullshit and muscles are nonsensical.  

Shot around for about 15mins, shot wasn't on, came home early.

Now going to do some RDLs and chins and spend the weekend resting perfectly.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on June 30, 2012, 04:14:29 am
Looking at my squat video for the 122.5kg double yesterday, some observations.. the first rep was fine. But in the second:

1. Descent looks 90% ok. It could be better but it's acceptable
2. coming out of hte bottom up to the half squat position, also looks fine
3. from half squat position to the top - this is bad

Here is what goes wrong in 3, i reach a "sticking" point at the half squat position, and to overcome it, my lower back takes over in a good morning pattern. The bar is literally RAISED by the good morning, while the quads don't contribute much if at all to the bar moving up, they basically hold their position, maybe allowing my thighs to move a few degrees. Bar already raised, then knees are straightened, pretty easy since there is no work done against the bar  any more (it's not displaced).

Based on the above analysis it is clear my quads are not getting enough work. If they were, they'd be contributing from the half squat position, but this isn't happening.

Diagnostically, If my chest was further back at the half squat position, it's possible the quads could contribute more to the lift, but because the bar has moved forward, i have to GM to bring the bar back. If i could use quads more then i'd be stronger in the squat. I might even have the causation the wrong way, that if my quads were stronger then i'd be able to use them more. I dunno, am not a coach and I dont know any one who can coach me, and even if they thought they knew why, it would just be a theory anyway.

But there are some things I can try. Suppose I work on adding quad strength using partial and front squats and then seeing if it helps with the back squat form, that will confirm the theory. I forgot to do partials yesterday, but I will do them next time. Since I am doing a lot of RDLs too, hamstrings will not be neglected. I wonder if this piecemeal approach can work. Lets see.



 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 01, 2012, 02:11:52 am
End of june update
BW: 85.5kg (Thought i'd be heavier, have been eating a lot lately)
injuries: had to rip the tape off in the middle of the night last night, it was itching me like crazy. woke up feeling pretty good. it seems it's 100% ok. i am really surprised how well hardcore taping worked. but now i have to be extra careful not to disrupt rehab going from here.

July goals: continue rehab conservatively, conservative fat loss goal of 83.5kg by aug.I have to be under 84kg at worst. And squat 130x3 - this sounds ambitious considering i am only at 122.5x2 and 120x3 atm, but i am trying a few different things which  might pay off (asssitance lifts including partial squats, RDLs and front squats).
Title: w2d1
Post by: entropy on July 02, 2012, 09:29:39 am
Training
SQ 3x6x106kg
BP 6,6,5x78.5kg

Tried a bunch of things today after squats. Started with partial squats and worked up to 140x3 with a belt. I dont use a belt for normal squats but I thought to err on teh side of safety with partials. I can probably use a lot more weight than this but dunno, intuition for partials isn't so good them being so alien. I can probably quickly work up to 2BW on these, since I just started doing them and I can handle a lot more weight than I'm used to with squats. After that I tried front squats. Found myself a natural with these, form was good from the very first set of 60kg. Worked up to 2x80 which felt a bit heavy, but still form was good (see pic below), so I did a final set of 75x3. Will be working up from here. Instantly I can tell these target the legs, since I could feel them in the legs from the first rep.

After that finished off with BP. Was thinking of doing RDLs but my workout had already taken too long. Next monday, skip the partials and just do SQ, FSQ and RDL.

I may do partials once a week, on friday after 3RM heavy squats. I guess i should make it explicit that i'm now not keen on partial squats, front squats seem like the better lift to me, even better than back squat.  I mean I had to work very hard, and still struggle with backsquat form, whereas front squats are just automatic.

(http://i.imgur.com/vxHrW.png)

^ perfectly flat back, nice and deep squat, felt it in mainly in the legs.

I am still to sort out how to hold the bar properly, on one set I accidentally had my wrist loaded under the bar, but that seems like a fairly easy thing to fix. Wish I had been doing front squats all along. Kicking myself for not trying them before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwzyHeAlos

^ Saw this the other day. Wonder if he's on to something hmm.

Another article I found while searching for FSQ vs BSQ - http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/15739/Strong_Athlete_-_Zero_injuries.pdf - the message of correct form resonates with me a lot:
Quote
Technical failure." What it basically means is that the set ends
when you can no longer do another correct rep. I'm a big believer in the technical failure concept. The set
ends at technical failure, not when you can't cheat through another rep. I'd always rather undertrain than
overtrain. Tomorrow is another day. The tortoise beat the hare. The healthy trainee lives to train another day
while the hurt guy goes to PT.


Crazy idea would be embark on a program of RDLs and Front Squats alone. These are the two lifts I can do technically correctly with crisp form. I wish I was crazy enough to actually try it. Would be interesting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on July 02, 2012, 12:00:36 pm
For me half squats are so much difficult vs full squats. So hard to stop and reverse at that 1/2 squat position ending.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on July 02, 2012, 12:55:17 pm
empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.

pretty general remark bro, in which case in particular? Preventative? Rehab? Chronic? Etc.


all of the above. after i got my third ankle sprain a few years ago i started doing research and stuff -- which is what eventually led me to start working out in a structured/serious way -- and pretty much every paper i ever found on the subject was ambivalent or plainly negative on the effects of taping. there's either no difference from placebo (i.e. tape placed haphazardly) or no difference from an untaped state.

at some point i even came across a paper theorizing that tape could even negatively affect re-injury rates by providing a false sense of security.

that doesn't stop people from doing it and taking it really seriously, and i'm just a random guy on the internet who did a bunch of pubmed searches a few years ago. who knows, maybe all those NBA and NFL trainers are onto something. but nothing i found indicated that there's much there there.

ETA: the title of that video, "Why Front Squats are Better for Athletes," indicates that the person making the video may be retarded. any such categorical statement (see harvey's recent "you will notice that sprinters are massive athletes" for another example) is likely to be broscientific.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 02, 2012, 01:14:13 pm
I respect that's your experience. In my case, i injured my ankle in February early this year and while it got slowly better, it wasn't until I taped it properly just over a week ago, that it finally healed significantly. I only taped it properly because I had recently re-injured it in a pickup game. The next day after reinjuring, I taped it up.  I think I kept the tape on for about about 10 days? That's all it took. Btw while I had it taped, I didn't stop playing ball, or lifting or even sprinting.

Here is what I've observed: many times this year I would wake up in the middle of the night, in pain, because I had put my ankle in an awkward position while sleeping. Since I taped it hardcore, that NEVER happens, and it couldn't either, I had taped it soundly so that it couldn't flex sideways, which is what caused the pain. Since removing the tape a couple of days ago, I feel fine. There are moments here and there during workouts where I felt I was bothering my ankle, but it wasn't as acute as it used to be before taping. I know you'll probably think it's placebo, but I just think the combination of immobilising the ankle for about a week made healing happen which hadn't in 5-6 months prior to taping.  


Yeah the guy in the video is a bit of a nerd. I actually think he knows a bit more than the average bro though, at least his expertise in physiology betrays a deeper understanding than the former. There is also Mike Boyle who backs fronts over backs. I don't care about dogma though, i've tried back squatting for a while, i'm going to give front a try. See what happens. If I gain nothing from it then i'll change my mind

raptor i think i know what you mean. btw the partials i did were quarter ones, not halfs. I couldn't do halfs with that much weight .. it would pin me down for sure.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 03, 2012, 04:12:50 am
Day after front squats woke up with sore quads (yes!), shoulders, sore hams(??!),  lats (?), upper back (!), chest (!),  abs, and all sorts of muscles I didn't even know I had! Even adductors were sore. Only downside is my knees are sore, which I think was from quarter squats. I might not do those any more.

I don't get why front squats are so effective. Could it also be because I did both back and front squats? Back squats don't normally make me sore. I was completely fresh, did no chinups or pulls, just squats, front squats and some bench presses. Normally bps dont make me sore either. perhaps the combination of back squats with front squats do. hmmm. tantalising.


Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on July 03, 2012, 06:31:02 am
New exercise. Body not used to the movement.

I can't even do front squats so I can't know how they are.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 03, 2012, 06:40:20 am
Yep, but if it didn't make anything sore i'd know it wasn't training anything differently than the ordinary backsquat so it's a good sign that it's doing new things to my body which is awesome. How come you can't do them, flexibility?

Just came bck from a wicked pickup game with my friends, we played 3vs3. The best thing about playing with these guys is they're so competitive so everyone is trying hard and it's a good challenge. I am happy to say my ankle didn't bother me for a change. Feels good man. See if pickup games were this good, i'd play them more often just for the sheer enjoyment.
Title: w2d2
Post by: entropy on July 04, 2012, 09:04:46 am
Training
SQ 2x5x100, 1x5x90 (nice and deep)
FSQ  2x3x77.5, 1x3x70 (beautiful depth)
OHP 3,3,4,4x55

(http://i.imgur.com/Mrtxw.png)

I found I could go pretty deep on backsquats. Not sure how that's happened. But here is the interesting thing. I could go even deeper during FSQ than last workout. Somehow i've gotten more flexible in BOTH lifts. I am thinking adding front squats might have something to do with it. FSQ grip is improving. It still quite uncomfortable to hold the bar but that's what I get for being undermuscled in the shoulders. So after squatting, I didn't feel like doing some pointlessly light bench presses and put the bar overhead instead. Think this will become a permanent feature for the midweek workout actually, since I have been freestyling it for the last few months, and needing concrete programming and purpose for the middle sessions.

So my program appears to be:
Mon: SQ 3x6, FSQ 4x3, BP 3x6, 3xChins
Wed: SQ 3x6-10 (perfect form, max depth with milestone weight, held constant until 10 reps are reached), FSQ 3x3, OHP 3x3-10
Fri: SQ 1x3, 1x8-10, BP 1x3, 1x8-10, Sprints 10x30m, FSQ 2x3, RDL 3x8, 10xChins

Summarising in english, sets across on Monday with a medium weight. Wednesday emphasise form and depth with lighter weight, and finally Friday is heaviest weights for a new PR, then a new PR for reps with a lighter milestone weight (eg 60kg, 65kg, 100kg etc), as well as sprinting for a new PR.
I would like to do hang snatches too but my workouts are already too long.. :/ Also I'm thinking I should probably do more  OHP but like I said workout length is already a prohibitive factor. Will experiment a little to see what I can do about it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on July 05, 2012, 04:00:14 pm

  Sounds like a good plan, the only thing I would caution you of is using ONLY front squats for the lower body, especially with your build.  It very often ends up in knee issues, especially when switching from a more bent over style squat.  Push one glute/hamstring exercise up along with your front squat, and you can easily avoid these issues.

 If you dont have problems loading the front squat due to the rack position, and keep some solid hamstring work in your program, it can work very well as your primary knee dominant lift in your set up.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Kingfish on July 05, 2012, 08:37:01 pm
front squat and RDL is a good combo.

only thing that i don't like with the FS is the limited leg loading you will get eventually because your lowerback/torso gives up a lot sooner.

this is my torso already getting beat at 345x1 FS, after doing a top paused single of BS using 425x1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u64a-e7HwaA

props to you for building your strength with the heavy compound lifts. tall + strong =  :headbang:

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on July 06, 2012, 05:29:25 am
front squat and RDL is a good combo.

only thing that i don't like with the FS is the limited leg loading you will get eventually because your lowerback/torso gives up a lot sooner.

this is my torso already getting beat at 345x1 FS, after doing a top paused single of BS using 425x1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u64a-e7HwaA

props to you for building your strength with the heavy compound lifts. tall + strong =  :headbang:



How do you squat so low with such a narrow stance and keep weight on heels?
Title: w2,d3
Post by: entropy on July 06, 2012, 10:44:11 am
Training
SQ 2x125kg (PR), 9x100kg (PR)
FS 3x3x80kg (PR)
BP 8x75kg (PR)
RDL 5x105kg (PR), 10x85kg (PR)
Chins - 10 sets (total reps I think was 34.)

So I was looking forward to squatting heavy for the first time since adding front squats. Would it make for a  better BS? I wanted to know. And I got under 125kg, did 2 challenging reps, and didn't have a 3rd rep. I thought I had bombed the set, but looking at the video, it was actually much better form than expected, which was surprising to me. Then I did the backoff set for a new rep record with 100kg and managed 9 reps. This was a lot harder than I thought it would be since the first time I did 100kg for reps I managed 7 while keeping a rep or two in the tank and that was about a month ago. This 9 was pretty close to max. My guess is adding the FS has built up a bit of fatigue, so even though i'm stronger now from it, it's hidden by the extra fatigue. 

Front squats were good. Oh I must say I have figured out how to hold the bar properly. It actually has to be further from my body than I had thought initially. I have it just on my delts now, and it's fairly comfy there, I don't have the piercing pain of having the bar sitting on my bones now!

BP - I got a really hard single at 85kg which was disappointing, I thought it would be a bad bench day, but somehow I managed 8 reps with 75kg which made me happy. According to the 1RM calculator, going from 8x75 to 10x75 will take my max from 93kg up to 100kg! (yay the magic number!). Will be trying to get that 10x75 this month. Hopefully once I have the 10 reps, then I can spend the following month mastering the shit out of the 75-80kg range and working towards 10x80 which is probably my main bench training goal for the moment.

RDLs - I was only supposed to do a heavy triple with 105kg, but I kept going and got 5. That's with taking a 5kg jump from last week. I could have gotten greedy and tried for 110kg but there is no hurry. I'll keep adding 5kg/week for as long as I can.

Finished off with 10 sets of chins while cooking dinner. This got a bit chaotic but i'm glad I didn't skip it.

So a good end to this weeks training, look forward to next week and getting a 125kgx3 PR on back squats.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 06, 2012, 11:18:41 am
Wow-we-waawa - I feel like I should never wash this log again now that King & Lance have posted in it  :personal-record:


  Sounds like a good plan, the only thing I would caution you of is using ONLY front squats for the lower body, especially with your build.  It very often ends up in knee issues, especially when switching from a more bent over style squat.  Push one glute/hamstring exercise up along with your front squat, and you can easily avoid these issues.

 If you dont have problems loading the front squat due to the rack position, and keep some solid hamstring work in your program, it can work very well as your primary knee dominant lift in your set up.

Thank you. I will follow your advice and appreciate the heads up on potential knee probs by doing only FSes. In addition I'll do the RDLs. I also don't think i am hamstring work deficient (as opposed to hamstring size/strength deficient) because my hams have been sore nonstop for about 3 months now lol. I seriously can't remember the last time I didn't have sore hamstrings.. it just seems to be always there. In contrast my quads are rarely sore except if I do sprints, which btw make hamstrings quite sore too, and i was happy to see quads getting sore from lifting when I started doing FS early this week.

front squat and RDL is a good combo.

only thing that i don't like with the FS is the limited leg loading you will get eventually because your lowerback/torso gives up a lot sooner.

this is my torso already getting beat at 345x1 FS, after doing a top paused single of BS using 425x1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u64a-e7HwaA

props to you for building your strength with the heavy compound lifts. tall + strong =  :headbang:



Thank you sir. Will do! Btw that is a very pretty FS, i'm impressed by the way you control the lift throughout.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 07, 2012, 08:54:04 am
Skillz work
80 mins shooting practice over 2 sessions of 60 and 20 mins each

Some observations. I am starting to get reeel comfortable with the shooting fingers spread out grip on the basketball. I'm not quite as sharp with the new form as my usual old one, but when the shot goes in, it goes in oh-so-softly so I know i'm on the right track. That softness I've read about in books is showing up in my own shot. But in conjunction with a stance change, i'm finding a good rhythm with a spread grip which evaded my earlier forays into the new grip. I just need to practice it more and it will become automatic and then i'll become a reliable shooter.

The stance change came about from reviewing my footage a few weeks ago. I noticed I am always UPRIGHT on the court. It makes me look like a retard and I had no idea I was doing. No one ever taught me to play basketball otherwise I would have learnt the correct way early. You want to be low to the ground, drop hips down, ass back, get in that athletic stance. This way you can accelerate rapidly in any direction, whether going up in the air for a jumpshot or rebound, or forwards for a drive, or whatever. So staying low for the first time by dropping hips down rather than my first attempt last week by idiotically bending over and finding it silly, worked wonders. I practice driving to the hoop a few times, and was surprised how quickly I could go from the first step, to layup just by changing the stance. This might not sound much, but considering I would normally be completely upright, it keeps the ball and dribble low, knees bent for easier acceleration and harder for defense to read if you're always in that position. Can't wait to try this out in a game. Just realised it will do good things for my defense too, I usually rely on my reach to keep up with a defender, but i'll be able to play much better D if I stay low. Good stuff.

Summarising, stance change + spread grip = decent jumpshot release, ball comes out nicely now and when it drops in, it drops in softly. Even shots from long range dropped softly, kind of like Ray Allen's shots.

Abs are super sore, hurts when I sneeze.

The worst thing about being on a basketball court is seeing that sexy ring just sitting there, and all you wanna do is just dunk the shit out of it. But I must wait a while, let the ankle be fully healed first. It's so frustrating holding back and not trying to jump though.. esp when I look at the other logs here and see what others guys are jumping regularly in their training and wishing I could too do that.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 08, 2012, 11:30:38 am
Whatever i've been doing by laying off my ankle has been working. Feels almost good as new. i say almost because I haven't got full ROM back. I can kind of push the ROM, but it feels uncomfortable then. I think what's also helped is not dieting which although has made me fatter :( is helping healing. I hate getting fat, especially when I know how hard it is to get rid off the bodyfat but think i've chosen to be healthy first before cutting. Having said that, if I could cut just a little fat rather than getting fatter, that would be better. We'll see if I can pull of a mild recomp.

More shooting today, only 30 mins, had to share the court with other ppl and my R knee has been complaining so I cut it short. I took a camera this time and saw improvements in my shooting form. The angle wasn't so good so I could only analyse one or two shots but form looks prettier now. I'm glad i've gone from seeing my shot on video and thinking this is ugly, but having no idea how to fix it, to making a few changes which have started to find good grove as well as looking nicer to the eye. I think working with the heavy ball for a week made me strong enough to overcome the weaknesses that had prevented me shooting with a conventional text book form, and having overcome those, and with practice, it's paid off.
Title: w3,d1
Post by: entropy on July 09, 2012, 08:57:19 am
Training
SQ 5x107.5,6x105,5x100
FS 3x3x82.5 (PR)
BP 6,5x78.5

Shitty session, have started dreading gyming lately. Unlocked a squat bonus tho, found that all along i'd not been using legs during the last 1/2 of backsquats. If you run the video backwards it shows it more clearly, just a straight up good morning. On the last set today I made the fix, pushing hard thru the floor, using leg power and saw it made a big change in addressing the GM finish.

FS are starting to get heavy, which I don't mind, except form isn't so good. I didn't stay very tight at the bottom (i think) and this caused more ankle flexion than i'd like, which bothered my injury. That sucks too. I was hoping I could train pain free for a while but maybe it's just a form thing and I can work around it next workout. Will see.

So form improvements needed.

I think part of the reason i'm dreading workouts is the sheer number of sets to work thru, every session. Today I was scheduled to do 6 sets of squats not including warmup sets. Just gets a bit overwhelming, although I realise if I was doing something like smolov i'd be doing 10 sets so in that context it shouldn't bother me too much, but smolov type intensity isn't something I want every workout, that would fucking suck over a time period including many weeks or months. So have to adjust my volume cos the way it is, it's unsustainable. I wasn't even fully recovered given the 2 day weekend break after eating like a fat cunt which makes me doubt very much I could pull all this off while cutting. Maybe take one scheduled set away from back squats each session to start with.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on July 09, 2012, 01:25:38 pm
not dieting while rehabbing from injury = smart. glad you're almost back to normal.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 10, 2012, 09:11:10 am
^Thanks bud.

Played a lot of pickup basketball - was fun. The only downside is when there is no ref, people tend to get carried away with fouling, and I saw some guys on the other team get hurt, which was unfortunate. I don't understand why people don't realise it's stupid to play dangerous D but I managed to get away unscathed. It's not worth it jumping into traffic and risk an injury just for some pickup game, I picked off open jumpers and got some nice assists which made me happier. Looks my basketball season is over too - which means I can focus on getting my lifts moving now. The annoying thing is I was the only guy running up and down the court at full speed after about 2 hours of playing full court pickup ball without subbing out - i guess I got that wretched fitness just a little too late.. lol. I struggled bigtime in the earlier games of the season, and now that i'm well conditioned, no more games. Well there are games but i've opted out of the team so effectively they aren't any left.

I spent a lot of time shooting afterwards and could reliably most of my shots. Was nailing that corner 3 hard. Am beginning to realise there is no special trick to it, you just need to put in the hours and clock up a whole load of shots to become a good shooter.

I met a guy who plays for a good team (they play the top division and his team just won the finals), and he says they have 8 people already and they're trying to shed players. I was really hoping he'd ask me to play but alas it wasn't to be! He's probably the strongest 5 foot something guy i've ever played with. He guarded me really well, and later I found out he plays as a point guard which explains his amazing handles. Was interesting talking to him. He complimented me on my court vision and passing, saying he liked how I was always looking for the pass. I told him I play pseudo-point for my team because our point guard doesn't want the ball, he found that hilarious. Hopefully can run into him again sometime. Playing with a guy like that improves you just by being on the same court.

Also what is it about asking for a guys number that people don't want to share it? I've always gotten a number of a girl if I asked her. But with guys, it's hit and miss. Mostly miss these days. lol.
Title: w3,d2
Post by: entropy on July 13, 2012, 10:58:29 am
Skipped session after death by basketball the day before. That was dumb but fun.
Title: w3,d3 .. do I have a 31" vertical??
Post by: entropy on July 13, 2012, 11:02:05 am
Training
SQ 1x127.5, 3x117.5
FSQ 3x3x85 (PR)
Sprints 5x~30m (Best Time: 04:65, equalled previous PR)
Jumps - some running some standing (PR hit the rim 1.5" below my wrist. You'd think I'd be dunking easily by now :( )
BP 1x87.5, 8x75
RDLs 3x110, 8x87.5 (PRs)
10 sets chinups

Workout was too long. I need to figure out how to better schedule this stuff, I can't be spending all day in teh gym like this!!

If my standing reach is 98" - means I need 22" to hit the rim. I measure 9" at that point below my wrist, so does that mean my RVJ is 31"? I find that hard to believe considering the highly athletic Russell Westbrook has a max vert of 36" and we have a similar height and reach and i'm highly unathletic. 5" difference in vert isn't much esp considering i'm rocking too much bodyfat atm. Something has to be wrong somewhere??

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/russell-westbrook-5062/

Thinking about vertical. Once i've cut to a lean bodyweight of 80kg, I will add Plyos to my training. I'm confident that will be the best time to add them since i'll be light enough to spare my joints and tendons and hopefully by then my ankle will be fully healed and able to handle the stresses associated with plyometrics. I'll also hopefully have a 1.75BW back squat then (by maintaining my current  backsquat of ~ 3x130kg BW), and optimistically a 1.5BW front squat, which would make me pretty well placed in terms of strength for dabbling in the elastic stuff. I hate how I move so slowly, and I can't see more strength improving my reaction speed and step. Hopefully that's not too long away now.
Title: Re: w3,d3 .. do I have a 31" vertical??
Post by: D4 on July 14, 2012, 02:15:41 am
Training
SQ 1x127.5, 3x117.5
FSQ 3x3x85 (PR)
Sprints 5x~30m (Best Time: 04:65, equalled previous PR)
Jumps - some running some standing (PR hit the rim 1.5" below my wrist. You'd think I'd be dunking easily by now :( )
BP 1x87.5, 8x75
RDLs 3x110, 8x87.5 (PRs)
10 sets chinups

Workout was too long. I need to figure out how to better schedule this stuff, I can't be spending all day in teh gym like this!!

If my standing reach is 98" - means I need 22" to hit the rim. I measure 9" at that point below my wrist, so does that mean my RVJ is 31"? I find that hard to believe considering the highly athletic Russell Westbrook has a max vert of 36" and we have a similar height and reach and i'm highly unathletic. 5" difference in vert isn't much esp considering i'm rocking too much bodyfat atm. Something has to be wrong somewhere??

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/russell-westbrook-5062/

Thinking about vertical. Once i've cut to a lean bodyweight of 80kg, I will add Plyos to my training. I'm confident that will be the best time to add them since i'll be light enough to spare my joints and tendons and hopefully by then my ankle will be fully healed and able to handle the stresses associated with plyometrics. I'll also hopefully have a 1.75BW back squat then (by maintaining my current  backsquat of ~ 3x130kg BW), and optimistically a 1.5BW front squat, which would make me pretty well placed in terms of strength for dabbling in the elastic stuff. I hate how I move so slowly, and I can't see more strength improving my reaction speed and step. Hopefully that's not too long away now.


If your reach s 98" and u get 9" above a 10' rim, than yeah you're RVJ is 31".  However, Westbrooks measurement on that site is inaccurate.  I know of the site and they are the best source for NBA measurements, but it is clear Westbrook just had a bad day at the combine or the other people made an error or something.  Westbrook has close to a 40" as many of his highest dunks, his head gets a few inches below the rim.  Maybe I'm wrong and he does have a 36" vertical.  That doesn't mean you can't be only 5" below him and stuff.  Some basketball players are just much more impressive at displaying their athleticism.  Harrison Barnes has a 38" SVJ and 40" RVJ, so technically he's more athletic than Russell Westbrook, but when you watch them play, RW looks 10x more athletic/explosive.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 14, 2012, 02:24:30 am
Thank you. Russell having a 40" vertical sounds pretty reasonable to me too. The other thing is, he might only have a 36" but he can start his jump and get up in the air very quickly which is athleticism. Whereas my 31" might be a lot slower from the moment I start my runup. Even if I jumped the same as him, he'd be athletic since he can quickly get in the air whereas it would take me much longer. So i'm not sure RVJ alone is enough. That reminds me, I should look at his 3/4 court sprint time -  just looked it up and it's 3:08 which damn close to the best ive ever seen!! so there is that factor too. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: creativelyric on July 14, 2012, 05:15:51 am
That link of Russell Westbrook was his stats at the NBA combine. It's a different atmosphere there, so he might not have jumped as high as he normally would in a game situation. Plus, again, it was at the combine, which was a couple of years ago. I think he's become more explosive since then.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on July 14, 2012, 07:05:36 am
I agree with everyone , that combine measurement could have 1 million parameters that we don't know.

Take home points:

1) Your reach is 98'', you can touch 10'9'', your RVJ is 31'', period!

2) This is NOT 36'' :

(http://fullcourtpumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/russ-rim.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 14, 2012, 07:13:58 am
@creative
Playing in the NBA would do good things for athleticism I suppose, being a highly competitive environment where athleticism is common. I can see how a year or two of that would do good things for someone who hadn't attained their potential athleticism. I dunno i'm not a scientist just guessing attempting an explanation for your claim that he's gotten more explosive since the combine.

@vag, but he got a wicked sprint time so he must have been in good physical shape, right? I mean if we are saying he wasn't as explosive, he was still VERY explosive at the combine to get that time! Thanks for confirming the 31" - wohoho feels good man. Can't wait to improve it :D

I just came back from shooting around, it was the first time i've ever had a rebounder, all 3ft of him. I borrowed a child from some guests at my place. He averaged around 10-20s chasing the ball down and then another 10-30s getting it back to me haha. But even so I got the best shooting session in a long time. I could stay at one spot and just keep taking shots until it felt good. Now my left biceps' fatigued, which is a new thing since I never manage to get off so many shots normally.

Someone should invent a rebounding robot that would be awesome.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on July 14, 2012, 10:15:55 am
i think you said it just now in that post: westbrook can jump high, sure, but the thing that really separates him as an athlete -- as it does for derrick rose, tyreke evans, and a few other guys -- is his speed. he gets from 0-60 faster than most and he has the upper body strength to get through contact

also, as i can tell you from years of trying to add inches to my vert, 5" is a huge difference.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 15, 2012, 09:59:25 am
^That must be what kellyb meant by 'fast nervous system'.

Came across this piece of wisdom while forum surfing


Quote from: Jack reap
i think the depth you go to is more a factor in hamstring recruitment in the squat than stance width. If you are pushing your feet down through the floor in the majority of squats the start out of the bottom is all about hamstring contraction to start then becomes quad quickly as you approach parallel from the bottom. In the specialized low bar wide stance squat out of a monolift in high end gear, you are sticking your ass way back "into the hams and glutes" and literally doing a good morning from above parallel.

Takeaways are to hit hams more you need to go deep in squat AND push your traps through the bar (vice the feet through the floor) when squatting. On the other hand when pulling conventional to activate more quads you need to intiate pull with feet pushing down into floor.

Small but important details.

Lots of good stuff there to take a note of. May take another attempt at deadlifts. I don't think i've tried the floor push, or if I have, I prob didn't explore it properly. I have this sneaky suspicion I have a huge quad weakness.
Title: wk4,d1
Post by: entropy on July 17, 2012, 10:54:46 am
Been sick with the flu, missed yesterdays sesh, was feeling mostly ok today, but after struggling to open a new jar of fish oil capsules, I realised i'm still not ready yet. It kicked my ass and I had to cut the side thing, open with a tool. Will just wait for the scheduled Weds session and see how it goes. Interesting things - i noticed the usual hamstring soreness present even 3 days off (!). But looking at it closer, I found only the RIGHT hamstring was sore. Left was recovered ok. Isn't that strange? I thought so too. I'm used to have sore hamstrings they're always sore for the last few months, but I think the sprints on Friday did a better job of hitting both sides, and since the right side is undertraining somehow, it's still sore. That's my working theory.
Title: wk4,d2
Post by: entropy on July 18, 2012, 06:45:45 am
Training
SQ 1x110, 5x105
FS 2x3x87.5 (PR)
BP 1x85,5x75

Got weak, lost over a kilo apparently, scale read 84.8 something. Blah. 3x90 squat warmup felt heavy. I found the push the floor cue to work well in getting legs more involved in squatting. So much so that it seems the backsquat done that way is a better leg exercise than the front squat. If I wasn't doing pretty front squats I wouldn't even bother with them but my problem with the backsquat is the leverage thing - its exceedingly hard to make good progress and maintain form simultaneously. Front squats came naturally to me and so far I'm adding weight (12.5 kg since I started them recently) and form remains nice. Still, i'll keep going with the fronts, once i've hit that goal of mine 120x3@80, i'll probably switch over to high bar on squats and take it from there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 19, 2012, 06:06:18 am
Sore hamstrings on both sides as usual the following day. No soreness in quads.  Also sore upper back, which is unexpected since I didn't do any pulls whatsoever. Ankle feels better than ever. If I didn't know which side I had injured, i wouldn't be able to tell you by feel now. Feels good man. Not long to go now before I can start working on my VJ. Gotta move that vert of 31" with a 20+% bodyfat to a 36" with abs.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on July 19, 2012, 06:35:26 am
 
  Glad your ankle is feeling  better man, youve  been  putting in some solid work in here, keep up the good work!
Title: w4,d2
Post by: entropy on July 20, 2012, 09:00:41 am
Training
SQ 1x120, 3x105, 4x100
OP 2x55, 6x50
30 mins basketball practice, ~6-8 jumps, best one hit the rim with wrist. Got the first one handed dunk on the outdoor rim. Hit the rim pretty hard. Actually palmed the ball when doing this, didn't think it was possible. I can palm the ball and walk around with it, but when jumping with it wouldnt stick. I need to buy a new pair of bball shoes but im not playing so dunno if i'll bother to. These high tops bother my ankles for some reason.
4-5x120m running, best time 16:00. I was suprised to get 16s, that was my 100m time months ago. Which is terrible I know, but i've improved it without running longer than ~31m. I mean the sprints I did were brief, max all out, and they carried over to 100+m. Now i'm curious what my best 100m time would be. If you scale the 120m time it's ~13.3s, which sounds a bit reasonable. I could probably expect to have it down under 13s though.

Still weak in the gym. Have accepted it's just part of life losing gains overnight. I dont see me squatting 127.5x3 any time soon unfortunately, it will be a long road back there which annoys me because i worked hard to get so close (127.5x2 last wk) before being struck by illness. The 120 felt maximal, although my form was surprisingly decent which i'm sure is a result of the new floor pushing cue.

Cheers Lance, appreciate it :)
Title: First dunks ever :D
Post by: entropy on July 22, 2012, 10:30:38 am
I wore my sprinting shoes today instead of bball ones because I don't like hightops, they hurt my ankle when I jump.

Finally happened, I can dunk now!! Before I might have just kissed the ball into the rim as I dropped from the leap, there was always doubt whether or not that counted as a dunk, but now i'm sure i've dunked legitimately. Feels good man. What's more, it turns out I don't need a big runup or anything, was basically spinning around the baseline and going up. I could so do that in a game too! Not bad for a fat, slow unathletic guy who never thought he'd be able to get up there.


In another life i would have liked to be a great point guard .. definitely missed my calling by getting into basketball late in life. Oh well can still have fun on weekends :D I played the most amazing set of pickup games. Lost all of them, but i passed beautifully, got over a dozen sick passes into my team mates. feels good man. I was getting mad compliments from the other team lol for how well i passed. And it wasnt just "good passing for a slow fat big guy" but genuine respeck from legitimate point guards. Feels good man.



Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on July 22, 2012, 11:27:25 am
Nice bro. I remember when i got my first dunks I felt on top of the world. I didn't know you were an Aussie as well! We got a few on this forum haha. Congrats.  :headbang:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: creativelyric on July 22, 2012, 09:37:18 pm
Congrats, bro.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 23, 2012, 01:57:46 am
Nice bro. I remember when i got my first dunks I felt on top of the world. I didn't know you were an Aussie as well! We got a few on this forum haha. Congrats.  :headbang:

Cheers bro. Yeah there are a few, haha.

Congrats, bro.

Thanks bro!

I forgot to mention yesterday I woke up at ~84kg which is why I decided to head out to the gym to see if it made any difference being lighter. I was actually jumping slightly lower than my best though, so I think I can make a lot of improvement yet. But ultimately I need to get down to ~80kg though hopefully with athletic bodyfat levels and visible abs. I think that's got to my main goal now. I just want to get my squat up to 130x3 quickly before I can start cutting first. Is doing Smolov jnr crazy just to get the 130x3 out of the way? Or may be I should try Kingfisher's daily squatting thing. Need to decide soon, i wanna get this out of the way quickly.

In my position, if you had 2 weeks to put 5-15kg on your squat, what would be the best way?

I woke up sore around the right glute area. That's new. I can't remember the last time that's happened. Using that as feedback, may mean I need to strengthen my glutes for jumping.

today morning bw: 83.5kg (2006-2012 PR)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 23, 2012, 07:06:19 am
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81Rl%2BruomyL._SL1500_.jpg)

http://www.amazon.com/Fila-Clutch-Low-II-Basketball/dp/B004UQIVB0

These low tops look pretty good. Will see if I can find a pair here or i'll have to ship them in from online. hopefully I can find a pair here. I dont know why I persisted so long with hightops - they suck.
Title: w5,d1
Post by: entropy on July 23, 2012, 09:27:41 am
Training
FS 2x3x90 (PR)
BS 2x100, 4x95, 2x6x90,
BP 5,4x75, 4x72.5, 2x6x70

Rusty all round after the marathon pickup ball session yesterday. Could not backsquat for the life of me, but still managed to front squat PRs. Will work extra hard this week to recover lost ground on the lifts from illness.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: chrisbro1 on July 23, 2012, 01:31:20 pm
In my position, if you had 2 weeks to put 5-15kg on your squat, what would be the best way?

If I had to try I'd probably do 3 days of lower body and spread the following throughout those days:

Band assisted sets of 3 w/130
1 variation (e.g. box squats)
1 alternate stance squat (e.g. sumo or narrow depending on my weaknesses)
Partial reps in the bottom 1/4 for a few sets of 3-5 reps w/a decent weight & bands for added resistance

Car or prowler pushes
Sprints
Weighted Step Ups

8-10 sets of heavy singles
Heavy partial reps (130+ if you're not able to do 130x1 yet) at a depth between quarter and half (or justhalf if possible)
A few negative reps @ around 150

I'd throw in hanging leg raises, weighted situps, hyperextensions & oblique twists on the 1&3rd day.  No idea if that would work but if left to my own devices that's what i'd try.  I wouldn't try what Kingfish is doing as he's doing it for maintenance and not to build strength and from personal experience, you'd see a dropoff in strength at first.  I'm a fan of mixing it up also so I'd prefer something w/more variety than smolov jr.

Quote
I woke up sore around the right glute area. That's new. I can't remember the last time that's happened. Using that as feedback, may mean I need to strengthen my glutes for jumping.

Could be a sign that your glutes are becoming stronger and providing a larger portion of the force in your jumps.  That's what happened to me when I started doing box squats last year and my pc became dominant.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 24, 2012, 03:45:33 am
Thanks chris, loads of good ideas there! I like the blanket hammer all the different possible weaknesses approach in case there is a glaring weakness or two which needs the most attention. Will try it out this week. I also agree with your assessment that daily squatting will probably make me 'weaker' in the short term which isn't what I want. I'm reluctant to smolov because while I know it works very well at peaking, I don't like my chances of holding on to the gains while cutting.

Quote
Could be a sign that your glutes are becoming stronger and providing a larger portion of the force in your jumps.  That's what happened to me when I started doing box squats last year and my pc became dominant.

Perhaps so! Now i'm kicking myself for not doing deadlifts and heavy belted squats. The reason of course I don't do these things is because I don't want to fucking injury myself since I have the worst form on deads and belted squats. But in the past I did a lot of those anyway, only wish I had still kept the strength I build while doing that dangerous shit. I know I keep saying i need to get back into deadlifting but i really do need to do. Maybe even starting light and doing high rep sets to start with, as long as form is good, and i can progress them that way.

Second day in a row waking up ~83.5kg - im a little confused really.  I mean it wasn't long ago i was 86kg and since getting the flu, i've lost weight of course, but it's starting to feel permanent? I'm happy about it. It was a big mental stumbling block being stuck over 85kg and i wasn't breaking under it for about 2 months i think. And then boom, overnight i'm under it. I'll take it. The best thing is it's given me extra motivation to get leaner and lighter, i have a feeling I can break into the 82kgs by the end of the month. And if that happens i'll definitely be under 15% for the first time in forever. It'll have been a long journey from a rather fat 112kg a coupla years ago down to 82.
Title: w5d2
Post by: entropy on July 25, 2012, 10:56:46 am
Training
SQ 1x110, 2x6x92.5
FS 2x3x92.5 (PR)
10 SVJ jumps on carpet (About 8" away from the roof so when I ever touch the roof i'll have a 30+" SVJ)
OP 2x60, 4x55, 5x52.5, 7x50 (PR)
RDL 3x115 (PR), 10x90 (PR)
DL 6,4x90

How I went from doubling 127.5 to a max of 110 I don't know. I Still can't squat very well, I think my body has forgotten how. I kind of remembered in the last set of 6x90 though by screwing my feet into the floor. I was previously forgetting to use hamstrings. But in that set my depth was borderline. So either I had depth and shitty form (quad centric squatting) or better form (hamstring involved) and bad depth. Should be able to get both next workout if I work on both aspects.

FS was fine. I failed to take a tight grip on the bar on set 1, did so in set 2 and form was better as a result.

OP, working on mastering the weights between 50-60kg aiming for the goal of 10x60. Will keep working with various rep ranges until I've mastered things. In the coming weeks i'll get 10x50 to start with, then 10x55, and finally work towards 60x10. I was able to double 60kg today so i'm not too bad on pressing considering it's only my second pressing workout this year. I'm a much better presser than bench presser, I should probably just press more, but I wanted to bench 100kg first and it's just not happening.

RDL - I didn't RDL last week, so was keen to get back into it. The only problem was grip. I haven't pulled this heavy in about 2 weeks explaining the grip weakness.

Finally I did DLs today. And i'm pleased to report the press the floor cue worked. I actually pulled with a flat back, and the weight was very easy, my form was good. This was prob the best part of training today. I would love to have a decent DL if i can fix my form, there is no reason why not.

Bodyweight: ~84.5kg - bounced up from yesterday. I guess that's to be expected.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 26, 2012, 12:40:54 am
Kind of lost my appetite last wk and today I was supposed to meet some friends for a buffet today and didn't go. Fuck that shit, I have an enormous appetite and I know what would happen and it's not good and I can't have that anymore.

 I'm recognising that a few months ago when I did a good amount of dieting and was beginning to get real lean, I'd jeopardise it all by binging. I know that's just my body reacting to the hunger and stuff but I should know better. Of course that's no big deal in a normal diet but the thing is, when you've been dieting a while, those binges end up undoing weeks of work, you're just primed for fat gain, and it all goes right back. And it's so easy to justify it in the name of recovery ("i wanna get some PRs brb eating like a pig) but that's all bullshit. It makes no difference. To be fair I was healing from injuries so it was justified. But now i'm healed up I have to be careful not to spin my wheels.

So i'm eating small serves of food, even nutritious food, no point going overboard, Im having smaller portions and not going back for seconds. If I keep eating like this consistently, no takouts,  eating clean, no seconds, i'll surely find my abs.

new soreness: hams, upper back, and the back of my arms (presses?).

more and more I think chrisbro's approach is sound. I have too many weaknesses. Could be abs, hams, quads, upper back, lower back, glutes, any of those. Not knowing which, just need to hammer them all hard.

I just finished ripping off all the duct tape of my barbell. I had accumulated a few layers on the center knurl cos that thing was razor sharp and bruised up my back bad. I've had a bandage on my back for the last month and a half, and I wear like 3 layers of fabric between the bar and my skin, and several layers of tape as well but it still bruised me up. So finally ripped off the tape and spend a good 2 minutes with sand paper. It's not sharp now but it's not smooth either. Hopefully that's enough otherwise i'll sand it down some more. Must say the bar feels much more comfy and secure without the tape, may even improve form.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 27, 2012, 09:53:51 am
Ah man waste of a friday night. I called up the Fila store and asked if they had the Clutch lows (pictured above), and i was told yes by a girl on the phone, and they even had the similar DLS shoe. Wicked I thought, i'll go and pick up a pair. Got there and they had one shitty pair of high top clutches, and that was it. I asked the guy there if had the clutch los and he said nah we never had those. lol. Waste of an hour driving and then walking around different shops looking for an alternative pair. I found one I liked, the Nike Air Ring Leader Low - reasonably priced but not in my size :( What i like about this shoe is that it's fairly wide. At least it looked wide than the typical narrow basketball shoe.

Tried out the new kobe los, they're ok, i wouldn't pay the crazy price for it, for what is pretty much an ordinary running shoe that costs 4x more. Converses had a few low tops which I liked but real narrow at the front.

Nothing at adidas, i was told they had some decent low top adizeros, but man I couldn't find them for the life of me.

After this adventure i don't think i'd bother risking ordering online in case i get a shoe that doesn't fit me well. Special bonus, someone yelled out at me, confusing me for the name of a little known homicidal evil genius who sparked a bunch of wars earlier this century. Swear to god I don't that fucking guy but it could be worse, at least my name isn't michael bolton

Oh and before I forget, i should log todays training too brb
Title: w5d3
Post by: entropy on July 27, 2012, 12:35:11 pm
Training
SQ 1x115, 1x122.5 (failed 2nd rep badly), 1x112.5, 1x110
FS 2x95 (PR)
SQ 6x95 and i think i did another set with 97.5 but i can't remember how many reps
10x30m sprints (best time 04:63 - im not sure if its a pr? anyway i hit 04:65 consistently several times today- yes checked out as PR)
1 1 hand dunk, could barely palm the ball for some reason
BP 2x85 (ugly shitty set), 6x75, 8x70
chin ladders, 26 total reps

worst training in a long itme. next week im just gonna reset and work back up on backsquats. the failure today was very ugly, my back was rounded so much when I got pinned at hte bottom. I didn't expect to fail, i haven't failed in a long time, so i didn't set the pins high enough, meaning i had to rest the bar on a low pin (i leave it there for benches) and it crumbled me up in a dangerous position. no more of this bad form shit. i honestly thought i had 120+ for a triple today after finding the 115 pretty ok. but i got greedy, maybe if i had just gone with 3x117.5 i'd have got it too :/

not mentioning how bad front squats were today, every single rep i did today whether FS or BS sucked bad, my back was rounded, every single rep was horrible and dangerous. even warmups. I shouldn't have done RDLs and DLs last workout, i should save them for fridays, lesson learnt. i think my hams (or lb or abs or all of the above) were fried from wednesdays marathon hamstring sesh and i couldn't squat for shit. end of story.

horrible end to the week, reset and good form next week!

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on July 27, 2012, 01:05:19 pm
Squatting is soo frustrating!
I'm in a similiar position to you atm. A few weeks ago I got 132.5 for a double and now today I only done 120 for a triple. In my case it was coz I fuked up my knee, which set my progress back a bit but yeh hopefully in like a couple months I'm doing 140 for a triple- if not than :pissed:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 27, 2012, 01:16:56 pm
I swear it's the hardest lift to get right if it's off. When things are going right it's just automatic and you wonder what the fuss is about, but when it's not, it's the damnest thing! Get that 140 triple man, you've got plenty of back/leg strength given your nice DL, you just need to string together some consecutive progress over a few weeks. I know it's hard with your sport, it eats into recovery and training time so you can't help it either!

Btw i just checked and the 04:63 was a pr on the sprints. I guess that was the only good thing from today. Will take it. I realised while doing the 4 or 6th sprint that I could take LONGER strides, and somehow this made me get better times. There is definitely a trick/technique to these short sprints. Wish someone would tell me what it is! it's frustrating having to discover it myself thru trial and error
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on July 27, 2012, 01:36:13 pm
Yeh I know what you mean. With squats when you get a PR or make progress they are actually enjoyable but when you don't they just piss you off but we'll both be repping 3 plates soon just got to stick at it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 29, 2012, 09:10:10 am
Woke up 84.15kg, thought I should go try dunk. Didn't eat anything, just sipped on a whey shake. This whole kellyb inspired idea of dunking when you're light is fucking dumb.  I won't do it again. Gotta have a solid meal in and well hydrated. Couldn't actually land any dunks, i was using a different ball and i couldn't even palm it, otherwise I would have got some dunks. Then played pickup ball for 3 hours. That was dumb. Finished up and could barely walk, got in the car and started feeling nauseous, like i was about to faint, and just really freezing cold. Somehow managed to get home ok, and popped some mini snickers bars and felt better. Guess was just suffering from low blood sugar. What a waste of a day. Couldn't even play well, was sluggish and slow, was getting beaten off the dribble and couldn't even block guys who were driving inside where I was waiting.

Not sure if i'll be able to lift tomorrow, blah, the fog continues. What would abishek do? Probably quit lifting and let the adrenals return to normal function. I lost my libido like 2 months ago for the first time ever, and it hasn't come back. Maybe i'm overtrained.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 30, 2012, 07:12:20 am
My bodyweight thru the month of July

(http://i.imgur.com/WomjU.png)

Weighed in at a light weight 83.6kg today. It's strange being under 185lb. I think that's hydration related more than anything else but still i'm confident i'll be under 84kg by the end of the July.

Still fat at 83.5kg - but i'm confident somewhere along the way from 84kg down to 83kg I will cross the 15% bodyfat barrier. And i'm going to be agressive about fat loss over August - nothing short of 82kg will do.

Soreness - right glutes, and right hips. Quads are still sore from friday sprints. low back is fine, lats are a bit sore from marathon chins on friday too.

Taking the day off training today, I could probably force it but there is no point pushing it. I'm deloading anyways.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on July 30, 2012, 07:30:35 am


  Looks like youre having some rough days, hang in there.  Its important to remember when cutting, that the trip there is not the same as the stay.  Youll have some days like that for sure,  but look at them through the grand scheme of things, a few off days here and there  but youre achieving a much longer term goal in the process. Things will even out and youll  be able to make up for those days you felt "off" with no problem.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on July 30, 2012, 08:44:22 am
You're right lance  :highfive:
Title: w6d1
Post by: entropy on July 31, 2012, 07:43:00 am
Training
SQ 2x100,3x97.5,6x90,6x87.5
FS 2x3x95 (PR)
BP 3x6x72.5

BW: 84.2kg

Think I tweaked something in my back on sundays dunking/jumping. My right glute has been acting funny. Took the reset on squats - was hoping to go 3x6x97.5 but my form started breaking down on the 3rd rep, so I think I should be using something like 3x6x90 instead. Will work up from there, and of course make sure form is perfect. I don't care where my lifts are, so long as I weigh a lean 80kg and have good form, if that means squatting 2 plates with visible abs, so be it, I can always get stronger by stringing together a few months of uninterrupted progress from there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on July 31, 2012, 09:42:18 am
first two reps looked pretty good, actually. you were starting to come forward but not badly. third rep obviously broke down a bit but even that wasn't so bad. just looked like the last rep of a heavy set. one thing that helps me when the weight is even a little bit challenging is to refocus for every rep. it looks like you're just gliding through the set. maybe instead try pausing at the top and reminding yourself of your cues before each eccentric.

for me it's something like, "heels...push floor apart...breathe in...hold...abs out...chest up...go."
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 01, 2012, 11:43:37 am
Much apprech. You are spot on with your analysis. A split second before I take the bar, I'll say to myself, do X Y Z - but as soon as I unrack the bar, I am so completely focused on the lift that my mind goes blank during the set and I forget what I was supposed to remember. It's frustrating because if I remembered to squeeze the bar hard, keep the weight balanced on my feet etc i'd have better form. I guess that's where it helps to have a coach or a training partner. But i'll try to take a second before the rep to run thru what I'm supposed to do before I start the lift.
Title: w6d2
Post by: entropy on August 02, 2012, 07:48:22 am
Training
SQ 1x95, 3x6x85
OHP 2x2x60,3x5x50,1x8x45
CURLZ 3x8x32.5

Back felt better today but still not 100% - so went conservative on the squats. Even at this light a weight, I concentrated extra hard on having perfect form and not aggravating my back and I found myself exhausted by the end. That's good. I want perfect form. Observations - set 1 was picture perfect, set 2 wasn't as good, and set 3 wasn't as good as 2. So I have a problem with muscular endurance it seems. It's probably my leverages working against me but i'd like to turn a weakness into a strength. See next paragraph.

I read on pendlays forum that people who have trouble getting folded over out of the bottom of a squat should do a lot of these so called pendlay rows. Now i've never done rows, but if that's fixed the same problem for other people, it may just help me too. So i'll try do those on mondays.

OHP - made no progress this week, which makes me think my programming for OHP is inadequate. So today I went with sets across with 5s and will progress those weekly. I need a lot of rest between OHP sets otherwise I can't do many reps. Now the interesting thing is I never need as much rest for bench press. Which makes me question whether this is to do with muscular endurance not of the upper body but rather my lower back/abs. But if my muscular weakness is lower back and abs - then it would follow I need more rest during my squat sets too.  Something to think about perhaps.

I'm adding curls on the middle workout and will make sure they are done every week.

Bodyweight: 83.9kg
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 03, 2012, 03:03:22 am
I was watching Damien (ex poster on this forum) bench off his youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uydQsf_Axw

and I can't help but think i'm going somewhere wrong in my training. We had pretty much the same bench at the start of the year, I was benching 90 for 10 sets of 3, and he was benching I think a max of 100. I have a similar frame to him, he's leaner than me, probably weighs close to 90kg to my ~84kg. I don't get it, how has he added 10kg to his max. This fucking sucks. I need to find that magic program which will have me repping out 100kg :(
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 03, 2012, 04:43:55 am
Layne Norton Training Series + Full Power/Hypertrophy Routine


Day 1: Upper Body Power Day
Pulling Power Movement: Bent over or Pendlay rows
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance Pulling movement: Weighted Pull ups
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary Pulling movement: Rack chins
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Pressing Power Movement: Flat dumbbell presses
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Weighted dips
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Seated dumbbell shoulder presses
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary curling movement: Cambered bar curls
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary extension movement: Skull crushers
3 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 2: Lower Body Power Day
Pressing Power Movement: Squats
3 sets of 3-5 reps
Assistance pressing movement: Hack Squats
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance extension movement: Leg extensions
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Assistance pulling movement: Stiff legged deadlifts
3 sets of 5-8 reps
Assistance pulling/curling movement: Glute ham raises or lying leg curls
2 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Standing calf raise
3 sets of 6-10 reps
Auxiliary calf movement: Seated calf raise
2 sets of 6-10 reps

Day 3: Rest

Day 4: Back and Shoulders Hypertrophy Day
Pulling Power Exercise speed work: Bent over or Pendlay rows
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Rack chins
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Seated cable row
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Dumbbell rows or shrugs bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Close grip pulldowns
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Seated dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Upright rows
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy shoulder movement: Side lateral raises with dumbbells or cables
3 sets of 12-20 reps

Day 5: Lower Body Hypertrophy Day
Lower Body Power Exercise speed work: Squats
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hack squats
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Leg presses
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension movement: Leg extensions
3 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy pulling movement: Romanian deadlifts
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Lying leg curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling movement: Seated leg curls
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Donkey calf raises
4 sets of 10-15 reps
Hypertrophy calf movement: Seated calf raises
3 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 6: Chest and Arms Hypertrophy Day
Pressing Power Exercise speed work: Flat dumbbell presses
6 sets of 3 reps with 65-70% of normal 3-5 rep max
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Incline dumbbell presses
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy pressing movement: Hammer strength chest press
3 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy fly movement: Incline cable flyes
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Cambered bar preacher curls
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Dumbbell concentration curls
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy curling exercise: Spider curls bracing upper body against an incline bench
2 sets of 15-20 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Seated tricep extension with cambered bar
3 sets of 8-12 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable pressdowns with rope attachment
2 sets of 12-15 reps
Hypertrophy extension exercise: Cable kickbacks
2 sets of 15-20 reps

Day 7: Rest
Keep in mind this workout would be for someone who is relatively adapted to higher frequency and volume, so you may want to cut out an assistance/auxiliary exercise on each day to start until your body adapts.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- an experiment on hunger and satiety and dieting fail
Post by: entropy on August 03, 2012, 10:42:35 am
I had a good diet day today, until 30 minutes ago. Ate 2 meals - both clean, breakfast and dinner - hit my macros, got the right amount of calories, protein, fats and carbs, fruit and veg. Had a satisfying dinner of thai green curry chicken, rice, 500mL protein shake with 1.5 scoop whey and fruit (strawberries and a banana).

After that I ventured upon desert. I only intended to eat 1 serving but I wasn't satisfied, so 6 or 7 bowls of icecream later

(http://s11.postimage.org/yp9jbtd5d/icecream.png)

As I am eating while writing this post, my brain hasn't got the message from my stomach that it's full. It just never came. If i wasn't dieting, i would have had maybe 2 bowls at the most - and i'd have been full and i'd have gotten the signal to stop eating. But because i've been dieting, i don't get that signal, I keep eating and eating. And eating.

Meanwhile I've just finished the entire 1L container of icecream and now finally I am satisfied. It seems the signal to stop eating doesn't come from my stomach but instead it comes from my brain, when it realises there is no more left to eat. Btw the cravings are quite specific, just exactly the stuff i'm not supposed to eat on a diet.

It's funny because in the morning I was thinking, i am only 2kg away from being the leanest i've been since high school - over a decade ago. And a kilo or two from there from seeing my abs. I could be athletic, fit, and I could end my cut. Even knowing all this, I still went ahead and ate all that icecream. Unlike other guys here who are 10s of kilos away from their goal, im so close but I can't go any closer, I just keep tripping up.

But all of this would be pointless if it wasn't for the realisation that I can't do moderation while i'm dieting. If I was eating at maintenance, I could have a bowl of icecream and it would be okay. I would enjoy it and I wouldn't get carried away by a bottomless hungry stomach.

So for the next week or so i'm going to try something new - just accept that while im cutting my body wont help me stick to my goals, it wont send satiety signals, it will work hard against achieving my goals, hunger will confound my best efforts and I somehow have to look past it and just stick to the plan. Once i've stopped cutting i'll allow myself a normal unrestricted diet. If I can manage that for just one week, i'll finally get under 83kg - and that's a guaranteed under 15% bodyfat. That's all I have to do, stick to the plan for just one week.

edit, went for a long walk and shot some hoops.
Title: w6d3
Post by: entropy on August 04, 2012, 10:13:13 am
Training
SQ 2x110
FS 2x3x97.5 (PR)
SQ 2x6x90, 6x87.5
BP 1x85, 7x85, 2x6x73.5
RDL 3x117.5 (PR), 10x92.5 (PR)
DL 5x100 (conventional), 3x100 (sumo), 5x3x95 (sumo)
4x5xBW chins (orange, 9th pin)

Bodyweight: 84.3kg

The double with 110 was kinda meh. Form was ok, not great, but ok. I wanted a triple but I didn't have a heavy triple in me today. FS were hard - they were definitely 3RMs.

While warming up with the front squats, I was getting this clicking sound in my left knee. Now I don't like the sound of that, so I tried something different - I broke first at the knees on the way down. This way my ankle angle with the floor is smaller, knees further forward and I can be more upright at the bottom position - no clicking in the knees. But it looks like of funny breaking deliberately first at the knees. Experienced guys - is this normal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8IeFzGTE70
^2nd set of 3x97.5 (3RM)

Finished off with 3 sets of 6 on the back squat - my form was fine for the first 3 reps, 4 was borderline, and 5 and 6 were worse. But I nailed the set with 87.5 to finish with - so next time i'll go 3x6x90 and stick with it til i have a perfect 6 across.

RDLS my grip was weak but I did ok. This is the only exercise which made my back feel better. It really is a magic exercise for me. Love these.

I ended the workout to have dinner, in a coupla hours if i'm up for it, i'll do some deadlifts and chinups.

Did the DLs and chins after all. Why did no one tell me about sumo? After pulling my first set of 100 and being annoyed with my form, i just had this sudden idea to try sumo. I mean why not? So i  took a wider stance and experimented a bit with sumo. Found out I could manage a very pretty looking pull that way. This is a game changer. Now I can DL. Back strength here I come :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 04, 2012, 01:33:49 pm
 Knee  break looks good, I would stick with it.  When you come out of the hole, think of driving the  bar up and  backwards, that will help you stay more vertical on the way up as well.  The eccentric is spot on most of those reps. Also, that knee  break works well for some on the  back squat too, might give it a try if youre leaning over more than you need to.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 05, 2012, 01:19:17 am
Will do, thank you. I never thought to try it on back squat, I will experiment with knee break there too.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 05, 2012, 04:18:35 am
http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding/question_about_knee_break_low_bar_squats


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJikHEfYgWM
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 05, 2012, 08:57:17 am
Ah Pendlay <3 - i'll try it out tomorrow on backsquats and see how it goes. Thanks for digging that thread up :)

Played some pickup basketball today - was disciplined and only played 2-3 games -  left the gym feeling BETTER than when i entered it. That's the sweet spot of doing just enough enough to have fun, but not too much that you get fatigued and can't recover well enough to train properly!

Title: w7d1
Post by: entropy on August 06, 2012, 09:08:07 am
Training
FS 2x3x100 (PR)
BS 3x6x90
BP 3x6x75
pushups 2x10
cable rowz 2x10

Bodyweight: 84kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLQDtDstvk

I'm halfway to my front squat goal now - another 20kg left til i'm using 1.5*BW for triples on front squats with my ideal bodyweight of 80kg.

I felt very weak today after the warmup with 100kg for a double on backsquats felt kinda heavy, but i forced myself to go ahead and front squat a PR after the backsquat warmups anyway. Feels good man. On a good day I would smoked it with perfect form, but today I was just happy to get my reps in. I think I have a couple more weeks of adding 5kg/week - and then i'll switch to 2.5kg/week. If i'm ambitious i'll hit 110kg by the end of August.

I owe a big one to Lance. I wouldn't have thought to break at the knees first on backsquats - it was the last thing i would have tried unless he had asked me to. So today I tried it even though i was skeptical. But im happy to say it has solved my good morning problem once for all. Even towards the end of the set with fatigue setting in, when I would have gotten folded over out of the bottom, it didn't happen, my positions were good even on the limit reps. I'm so blown away what a difference it makes.

Afterwards I analysed the video carefully, breaking at the knees first on backsquats (and fronts too for that matter) means my knee position is further forward; this SOMEHOW preserves my back angle out of the bottom of the hole, improving my positions at the bottom all the way to the top. It's genius. It takes an experienced person to make a suggestion like that and i'm very grateful to have received the wisdom. Thank you so much Lance :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on August 06, 2012, 09:23:13 am
We have very similar squat issues, forward lean due to long limbs etc. I use the knee break too , it has helped me a lot, although i have a long way to go yet.
But the main reason i am posting is the front squat. That 100x3 is very tight! Drastically improving form while hitting 3RM PRs is no joke!
:highfive:
Title: Re: w7d1
Post by: LanceSTS on August 06, 2012, 05:00:19 pm
Training
FS 2x3x100 (PR)
BS 3x6x90
BP 3x6x75
pushups 2x10
cable rowz 2x10

Bodyweight: 84kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfLQDtDstvk

I'm halfway to my front squat goal now - another 20kg left til i'm using 1.5*BW for triples on front squats with my ideal bodyweight of 80kg.

I felt very weak today after the warmup with 100kg for a double on backsquats felt kinda heavy, but i forced myself to go ahead and front squat a PR after the backsquat warmups anyway. Feels good man. On a good day I would smoked it with perfect form, but today I was just happy to get my reps in. I think I have a couple more weeks of adding 5kg/week - and then i'll switch to 2.5kg/week. If i'm ambitious i'll hit 110kg by the end of August.

I owe a big one to Lance. I wouldn't have thought to break at the knees first on backsquats - it was the last thing i would have tried unless he had asked me to. So today I tried it even though i was skeptical. But im happy to say it has solved my good morning problem once for all. Even towards the end of the set with fatigue setting in, when I would have gotten folded over out of the bottom, it didn't happen, my positions were good even on the limit reps. I'm so blown away what a difference it makes.

Afterwards I analysed the video carefully, breaking at the knees first on backsquats (and fronts too for that matter) means my knee position is further forward; this SOMEHOW preserves my back angle out of the bottom of the hole, improving my positions at the bottom all the way to the top. It's genius. It takes an experienced person to make a suggestion like that and i'm very grateful to have received the wisdom. Thank you so much Lance :D



 Glad that helped man, those front squats looked great too!@!  :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 06, 2012, 05:01:29 pm
I will never understand, in my lifetime, how it's possible for people to keep their elbows forward like that in that position.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 08, 2012, 01:11:28 am
We have very similar squat issues, forward lean due to long limbs etc. I use the knee break too , it has helped me a lot, although i have a long way to go yet.
But the main reason i am posting is the front squat. That 100x3 is very tight! Drastically improving form while hitting 3RM PRs is no joke!
:highfive:

It will be interesting to see how I go with form issues once the backsquat weights get heavy again. I'm hoping the new knee break movement will serve me well but it remains to see what happens. The thing i'm really excited about though is finally building some leg strength from my recent front squatting. The LBBS for me was mostly a hip/glute/lower back exercise and for the first time it seems i'm building leg strength. I feel it during the exercise and later in my sore legs. That's all new. I measured my thighs recently and I saw a 0.5" improvement since the last time. And that's while trying not to gain weight of course because i've been "cutting". Adding another 20kg to my FS will do wonders for my leg strength :)

Glad that helped man, those front squats looked great too!@!  :highfive:

I'm hoping to have even nicer front squats on friday when i'm nice and fresh unlike Mondays. Thanks!

I will never understand, in my lifetime, how it's possible for people to keep their elbows forward like that in that position.

lol .. before I started doing them, i was a bit afraid of failing front squats. With back ones you can just ride the bar down and it's easy. Failing a front squat seems scarier, I dont wanna break my bar dropping it on the pins,  but thankfully i haven't failed yet.

(http://s15.postimage.org/403xqks2j/graph1238754107276522728.png)
My bodyweight goal for the month - want to reach 180 lb

I'm getting a bit frustrated with weight loss. I've been on the wagon for 2 days now and it's not showing up on the scale. Hoping to break under 83kg by Monday - another 5 days to go and about 0.9kg to lose.  Have decided that I will break 180 pounds by the end of the month by being super strict for the remainder of the month. I want to see my abs mid sept  and quoting walt in breaking bad, having  "a chocolate cake with chocolate icing".
Title: w7d2
Post by: entropy on August 08, 2012, 10:05:16 am
Training
BS 3x6x92.5
OHP 3x5x52.5
CURLZ 3x8x35

Short and sweet, BW:83.9kg.

Battle with squat form ever present. Think I figured out a few things though which I'll try on friday.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 08, 2012, 11:09:16 am
two days is nothing, be patient. fat loss just seems to happen that way sometimes. see lyle's article, "of whooshes and squishy fat": http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 10, 2012, 01:26:51 pm
two days is nothing, be patient. fat loss just seems to happen that way sometimes. see lyle's article, "of whooshes and squishy fat": http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/of-whooshes-and-squishy-fat.html.

4 days complainant now.. still pretty much the same bw lol .. i'm def in a calorik deficit cos i'm hungry often ..

(http://s16.postimage.org/mvulhuzo5/graph5910838268828062543.png)

but when I get that woosh i'll be happy :)
Title: w7d3
Post by: entropy on August 10, 2012, 01:44:01 pm
Training
SQ 2x115
FS 2,3,3x102 (PR)
SQ 3x6x95
BP 2x6x77.5,1x5x77.5 (CG), 3x5x62.5 (Wide grip)
RDL 3x120 (PR), 8x95 (PR)
~20 dead hang chins

Exhausted. I finally got around to fixing my floor problem. My floor tiles are uneven and sloped, and this makes it hard to squat properly. So today I spent like 3 hours trying to fix that. I got some concrete slabs and laid them out. I dunno how I spent so much time on this but I wasn't sure how to solve it - so just walked around looking at stuff I could use. Decided against wood cos it would get damaged. Anyway tomorrow I gotta level the slabs but I just squatted on them today even tho they wobble atm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stHk19vySbw

The new floor is so much better already but it changes the pin heights and things. I fucked up my first set of front squats cos the pins were too high (i had try to adjust them prior but it still needed to be one hole lower). Caught my 3rd rep on the pins and failed it. Sucked. So I did one more set to make up for it, and form was kind of iffy today anyway. I think the 2-3 hours I spent on my feet mighta contributed to that.

Then came backsquats - oh I forgot to mention, Lance is spot on about my form breakdown, the heavy set of 115 had the exact failure mode Lance predicted - I got GM - letting my lower back power the lift since my legs wouldn't. Hmm. Next week probably go with 112.5kg and try to get THAT with good form and just add reps for the heavy set over the coming weeks. I think 120x3 with GOOD form would be nice as a short term goal.

Backsquats, on the 2nd set, I strained something in my groin. I worked thru it, it's not painful or anything, just has that pulled/strained sensation. Got all 3 sets, my form is good for the first 4 reps, and the 5th was ok but 6th borderline. I guess as fatigue sets in, it starts to resemble the form breakdown I saw in the heaviest set.

Then bench, this changed too with the higher floor. I found it more comfortable esp with my legs higher up now (the floor underneath my feet is not raised). I like it, I could stay tighter that way. But i still couldn't get all 3 sets, the last one only managed a 5. Next time reset 1kg back and take smaller jumps. Maybe 1kg? We'll see.

RDLs, i misread my log and went for 3x117.5, which is what I had done last time. So repeated it with 120x3, this was ok, just my grip strength sucked today and even warmups felt heavy in my hands. The bar kind of rotated in my hand on the 9th rep of the set with 95kg and I put it down.

Oh and I stupidly tried to clean 60kg off the failed front squat but the bar was a bit too high to clean properly, and I managed to fail halfway and then bang it into the pins. Might have bent it badly. I spun it on the pins and it was def wobbling. It's a shitty cheapy bar and quite old now and I have been thinking of replacing it but i'm not going to spend a lot of money on a bar - i'm not a professional athlete or anything so spending $500 on a barbell isn't happening lol. May just get another cheap one and then treat it really gently, for my goals I don't see it getting too much of a beating. I'll use it for squats and presses only.

And yeah the workout was too long, I didn't risk sprinting with my groin strain. next week do RDLs on monday, friday workouts are too long
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 11, 2012, 05:08:16 am
Hmm, woke up with the groin strain sensation still there. Not looking good, have been googling and it seems it takes around 4-6wks to heal a grade I :( Watched all three sets of backsquats and I can't see anything that would have caused the injury. They are actually really nice sets, probably the best form of mine i've seen on video.

 I think the 3 hours on my feet before the workout might have been a reason, maybe I had some fatigue there that make me vulnerable? Dunno.

My other theory is cos my front squats took longer this time (due to the extra set) and I went straight front squats to my backsquat worksets - that I had gotten cold, and I should have warmed up again.

But i've done the sequence of 1. backsquat warmup, 2. front squat warmup, 3.front squat workout then 4. backsquat workout; many times and never had any problem. I usually go thru the fronts pretty quickly tho, this time I had to do an extra set and I took a bit longer rest too. And I guess I have been using a lot of volume too, squatting 3x6 every workout for the last 2 weeks, maybe that caught up with me somehow.

Anyway will see how it feels on monday otherwise i'll prob rest the week
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 11, 2012, 06:19:10 am
Nah, if you didn't actually feel the injury etc, and there was nothing wrong with and during your squats, I don't see why it would take that long to recover.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 11, 2012, 08:24:24 am
I agree with raptor. Feel it out though, do some light stretching and myofascial release/massage, dont do anything that hurts it.  It sounds like a very minor strain, shouldnt take too long to heal, definitely not a month.


also, compression pants (hard material) will do wonders for your issue there until its healed.  You can also get a neoprene thigh sleeve and pull it up high on the leg.  Ive done this with a torn sartorius and didnt miss a single squat workout.  Those sleeves can really help a ton.

(http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/hockeymonkey_2224_25885385)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 11, 2012, 11:23:21 am
You guys might be right, seems to be improving as the day goes on. I did try to rest as much as possible which mighta helped. See what happens over the next coupla days. Ive started icing as well, not usually a big fan of icing becos i dont wanna intefere with normal healing but thought to try it.  I will look around the pharmacy for that sleeve too lance, thank u.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 11, 2012, 12:29:56 pm
not usually a big fan of icing becos i dont wanna intefere with normal healing

That's like saying "I'm not a big fan of training becos I dont wanna intefere with normal body development"
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 11, 2012, 12:42:33 pm
lol tru bro. what if ur family is starving, is it ok to steal a loaf of bread to feed them? and what if they dont like bread, they want cigarettes, thats ok right?  :P im trying to remember this absurd analogy i had running thru my mind earlier today
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 11, 2012, 12:56:34 pm
Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrright

Oooook... time for your medication now... (http://www.adarq.org/forum/Smileys/blah/tongue.gif)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 11, 2012, 01:01:29 pm
lol tru bro. what if ur family is starving, is it ok to steal a loaf of bread to feed them? and what if they dont like bread, they want cigarettes, thats ok right?  :P im trying to remember this absurd analogy i had running thru my mind earlier today

lmfao
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 12, 2012, 03:48:10 am
Woke up feeling even better today, seems to be healing more every day!

I'm visibly leaner too, except, damn the scale actually went up not down. I wanted to be under 83kg by tomorrow morning, instead I was over 84kg this morning .. slightly frustrating lol.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 12, 2012, 07:41:46 am
Usually play basketball on sundays but didn't today. Messed around with banded swings, nice little workout. Got a bit of conditioning done.

Training
Banded swings (orange band) - 8x10kg, 13x5kg, 11x5kg, 9x5kg, 12x5kg, 11x5kg

my groin felt better afterwards too, it's almost perfect now! Phew.
Title: w8d1
Post by: entropy on August 13, 2012, 11:03:10 am
Training
FS 2x105 (PR), 2x100,2x85
SQ 3x6x97.5
BP 3x6x76.5 (CG), 3x5x65 (WG)
lat pulls 1x20, 3x8

BW: 83.8kg

I couldn't triple any front squats, more in my head than anything else, i think i was holding back some in fear of injury. I shud get 2x3x105 on friday though, im sure of it.

SQ - in lieu of finding more uprightness, I experimented with bar position, moved it higher up. Wanted to see if it would make a difference in forward lean. It may have, its perhaps too early to tell. But what I did notice was more tension in legs. Give it a few more workouts to see how it pans out.

Also since I didn't lose ANY weight this whole week despite beign 100% strict, i'm making some changes. Have reduced milk intake on workout days by 200mL and on rest days i'll reduce by 300mL. Also have stopped using butter (I usually eat 1 teaspoon a day). Felt more hungry today than usual.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 14, 2012, 03:21:59 am
(http://s9.postimage.org/jn5md01a7/graph2162978781155921403.png)

BW: 83.6kg or 184.31lb .. i'll be genuinely delighted when I drop under 83. Hopefully sometime THIS week. I think i'm still way over 15% bodyfat, maybe even over 20?

Reduced my usual 2 slices of bread for breakfast to just 1 on rest days. Oh and I cut 1/2 a scoop of whey as well. So basically i'm very low fat, low carb, medium protein now. Been hungry all day lol. This shit better work!

(http://s18.postimage.org/aubzfh2p5/lowtops.png)

My lowtop basketball shoes arrived. They're pretty nice. But a bit too roomy. Might have to wear 2 pairs of socks, will try them out on sunday for pickup ball. I didn't really tighten the shoelaces but I could pretty easily slip my foot out of the shoe which was a bit disconcerting. Hopefully I can jump in these shoes without bothering my ankles like my other hightop boots! I just realised I haven't tried dunking in over 2 wks now. And it's been around the same since I ran sprints. I missed a session due to rain, and last wk due to injury. Will def do both jumping and running this wk, weather permitting.  

In other news, I finished my new new flooring. I wasn't satisfied with the grey slab of concrete, something about it set off my inner caveman sensibilities. So a million flint sharped nails later, and a hammer worthy of coach he-who-shall-not-be-named-in-this-log, i've got a fully paleo surface  any prehistoric man would be proud to have adorning his cave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtLvYdg3XDs

haven't tried squatting on it yet but will get a chance tomorrow, it seems pretty flat and even.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: creativelyric on August 14, 2012, 06:09:48 am
My lowtop basketball shoes arrived. They're pretty nice. But a bit too roomy. Might have to wear 2 pairs of socks, will try them out on sunday for pickup ball. I didn't really tighten the shoelaces but I could pretty easily slip my foot out of the shoe which was a bit disconcerting. Hopefully I can jump in these shoes without bothering my ankles like my other hightop boots! I just realised I haven't tried dunking in over 2 wks now. And it's been around the same since I ran sprints. I missed a session due to rain, and last wk due to injury. Will def do both jumping and running this wk, weather permitting.  

Sounds a bit risky. I'd change your size down if you can.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 14, 2012, 06:20:44 am
I think the size isn't the real problem, its just the sole its not very grippy and my foot slides around inside the shoe. Any tips to deal with that?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 14, 2012, 06:57:41 am

 Sick work on that flooring for your rack.  :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w8d2
Post by: entropy on August 15, 2012, 09:13:14 am
Training
SQ 3x6x100
OHP 4x55,3x54.4,4x53.5,4x53,2x8x45
CURLZ 3x8x37.5 (PR)

Really happy with the first 4 reps of my squats. The last 2 not so much. But i'm ok with that, considering, see next line.

OHP told me what I had suspected from squats, I was really weak today. I couldn't even ANY of my planned sets on press, and the weights are still light for me well within my old PRs. So I did what I could have.

Worked super hard for the curl PRs.

Looking forward to fridays, wanna PR my front squats and get some sprints in.

I suspect I was weak cos I lost a lot of water weight, thats why i'm treating my (current) bodyweight with suspicion. If it stabilises in the low 83s then i'll be more happy about it of course but we'll see.

(http://s11.postimage.org/u778jhk6b/graph2455936561324959094.png)
Bodyweight: 83.25kg/183.5lb
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 07:21:39 am
Btw i realised that what I thought was a groin strain is actually probably my quads. It was fairly high up my leg so easy to confuse. The reason I mention this is, it makes sense that my leg strength has been lower this wk for that reason. By that I mean the front squats have been a lot harder than they should have been (not being able to triple 105 maybe cos its heavy, but 100 and 85? yeah thats def odd).

The other thing is today i was practicising squats and trying to figure out a way to make my backsquat more upright and athletic. I tried putting a plate under my heels, and using a highbar position (incidientally this makes no difference whatsoever to my backsquat form whether its highbar or lowbar placement). But I can't do it, no matter what I try my back isn't upright its always always angled as usual.

(http://s9.postimage.org/jll5u0asv/bsvsfs.png)

What I dont understand and i'd be grateful if someone can point it out to me, why can't I get my backsquat to be similar to my front squat? What is it about putting the bar on my back which makes this impossible? I can do an upright looking front squat - but all my backsquats regardless of stance, bar placement, knee break and so on makes no difference.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 16, 2012, 10:12:35 am
(http://crossfitnyc.com/squats.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 16, 2012, 11:16:48 am
i was gonna say something snarky and clever about physics and something something something but raptor nailed it. just look at that picture, it's not a hard concept.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 11:25:17 am
Do you think squatting like in my left pic will make the squat in the right pic go up? Cos thats why i'm going on about all this stuff. I wanna squat my BS in a way which makes my FS go up without necessarily needing to FS a bunch.

As far as reasons and snarky physics goes, bring it on man. I'm keen on hearing it. I know one guy claims the LBBS puts less of a torque on the LB than the HBBS. Then Greg Everett debunked him in his book, showing the opposite was true, that the LBBS puts more of a torque on the LB.

But here is where im stuck .. in my mind model the lower the bar goes on the body there shud be a lesser tendency to lean forward cos there is a smaller moment trying to topple u over. or conversely, the higher the bar goes, the bigger a moment trying to rotate u fwd, hence more fwd lean. Why is my mental model flawed? I havent read gregs book but i wish i knew his explanation
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 01:02:46 pm
PROPER TECHNIQUE FOR THE ATHLETES SQUAT by Fred Hatfield (Dr. Squat)

Position the bar on the squat racks at a height approximately three to five inches lower than your shoulders.

Check your equipment -- weight even on both sides? Collars in place? Spotter rails adjusted?

Is the area free of loose plates and debris?

A recommended way to evenly disperse the weight across your shoulder girdle is through the use of a Manta Ray (TM), a neat little device which clips onto the bar. This recommendation is made because the bar alone can cause discomfort or injury when sitting atop your 7th cervical vertebra.

With at least two spotters standing by (NEVER only one spotter), position your hands evenly on the bar and, with your feet squarely under the bar, lift it from the rack with the legs.

Step back just enough to avoid bumping the rack during the exercise, and position your feet at a comfortable width -- this is called the "athletic stance," where your force output capability is at its maximum -- usually a bit more than shoulder width).

Your weight should remain centered over the back half of your feet throughout the descent and ascent, not on your toes.

Descend with control into a position where the tops of your thighs are about parallel with the floor, keeping your torso and back erect so that your hips remain under the bar at all times.

Do NOT allow your hips to drift backward, your knees to drift inward or out beyond your toes, or your torso to incline forward.

A check on proper position is to ensure that the angles formed at the knee joint and hip joint are close to being equal. (By contrast, powerlifters almost always have more of an angle at the hips, and close to a right angle at the knees.)

You should go to a depth necessary to stimulate maximum quadriceps and gluteal contraction, but not so deep that 1) your knees are traumatized, or 2) hyperflexion of your lumbar spine exposes you to serious back injury.

Descend to a depth where your thighs are approximately parallel to the floor.

Vigorously rise out of the squat position following the same path that you descended -- the torso and back remain erect and the hips remain under the bar throughout the ascent.

As your leverage improves throughout your ascent, accelerate the bar, always bearing upwards against the weight with maximum force. Slow down just short of lockout in order to eliminate unnecessary ballistics.


Repeat the squat movement for the required number of reps.

The use of supportive devices such as power, suits, wraps and belts is not advised except in cases where the weight is extremely heavy.This is so your body receives adaptive stress instead of your gear. Your gear will rob you of this elemental benefit of squatting.
When returning the bar to the rack, have the two spotters carefully guide you in, being sure that your hands are not in the way of the racks.

Your fatigued state has diminished your control over the heavy weight, so exercise caution in the return to the racks.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 16, 2012, 01:57:00 pm
re: fred hatfield: i stopped reading at, "Do NOT allow your hips to drift backward, your knees to drift inward or out beyond your toes, or your torso to incline forward," because it's physically impossible for you not to do those things. look at any picture of him squatting, he's doing every single thing on that list except letting his knees drift inward.

you're thinking about the positioning of the weight in completely the wrong way. look harder at the picture raptor posted. the lower the bar, the closer to the center of your torso, the closer to the center of your torso, the more of your torso needs to be on the other side of your center of mass for you not to fall backward.

getting stronger in the squat will make your squat go up, full stop. don't pick at the minutiae like that, you're getting distracted. just work on getting stronger, both of those squats look fine.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 02:08:34 pm
re: fred hatfield: i stopped reading at, "Do NOT allow your hips to drift backward, your knees to drift inward or out beyond your toes, or your torso to incline forward," because it's physically impossible for you not to do those things. look at any picture of him squatting, he's doing every single thing on that list except letting his knees drift inward.

Sure I agree with you but here is the key thing, Hatfield isn't talking about watching someone's squat or teaching someone to coach someone else to squat. He's talking about what the lifter under the bar ought to be thinking/doing. If you look at it from the perspective of the lifter then his instruction makes sense, even if it's impossible, the point is it helps the lifter hit the right positions by thinking about the cues.

Quote
you're thinking about the positioning of the weight in completely the wrong way. look harder at the picture raptor posted. the lower the bar, the closer to the center of your torso, the closer to the center of your torso, the more of your torso needs to be on the other side of your center of mass for you not to fall backward.

i gotta think about this, will reply later once ive thought about it.

Quote
getting stronger in the squat will make your squat go up, full stop. don't pick at the minutiae like that, you're getting distracted. just work on getting stronger, both of those squats look fine.

Fair enough, that's a good point. I just know guys who've squatted 400x5 with LBBS and watch them struggling with 225 front squats, at that point I have to question whether just progressing (the wrong) squats is the right thing to do, at some point you want an athletic payoff from all the work in the gym
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
Btw i realised that what I thought was a groin strain is actually probably my quads. It was fairly high up my leg so easy to confuse. The reason I mention this is, it makes sense that my leg strength has been lower this wk for that reason. By that I mean the front squats have been a lot harder than they should have been (not being able to triple 105 maybe cos its heavy, but 100 and 85? yeah thats def odd).

The other thing is today i was practicising squats and trying to figure out a way to make my backsquat more upright and athletic. I tried putting a plate under my heels, and using a highbar position (incidientally this makes no difference whatsoever to my backsquat form whether its highbar or lowbar placement). But I can't do it, no matter what I try my back isn't upright its always always angled as usual.

(http://s9.postimage.org/jll5u0asv/bsvsfs.png)

What I dont understand and i'd be grateful if someone can point it out to me, why can't I get my backsquat to be similar to my front squat? What is it about putting the bar on my back which makes this impossible? I can do an upright looking front squat - but all my backsquats regardless of stance, bar placement, knee break and so on makes no difference.

That looks pretty good to me considering your levers.

 If you want to remain more upright in your squat, start with the weight centered more towards the heel a little. This will enable you to push the knees a little farther forward, without getting onto the toes and affecting the knees in a negative way. 

  The position you have there in the hole is a world away from a 90 degree torso low  bar hump squat, and will generate tons of quad/glute activity.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 02:53:50 pm

  Also, those pictures from Rippetoe are not indicative of the position REQUIRED in any squat, nor optimal in many peoples definition.  Those are drawings from THEM, keep that in mind.

 I posted some videos of a 6'2 guy with a very short torso/long leg  build doing heavy squats with the low  bar position, and keeping a much more vertical torso than many have with a high  bar position.  There is only so far you can push the torso angle though and that pic is not  bad at all.  As your LEGS get stronger and you get used to driving the squat that way, you will start to naturally get more vertical as well.

(http://i.imgur.com/MobgL.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 16, 2012, 03:18:42 pm
Knees point ahead?

Wish me luck going lower than half squat depth with my knees pointing straight forward...
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 03:21:27 pm
Knees point ahead?

Wish me luck going lower than half squat depth with my knees pointing straight forward...

lol .. you gotta be squatting pretty deep to achieve that I think! I can do it with FS but no way with LBBS. Btw you mean, knees pointing up not forward right?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 03:23:02 pm
Quote
That looks pretty good to me considering your levers.

Thanks. I think my form on BS is kind of ok now. When the weights get heavier though, i'll start getting bent over and it will be squatmorny. It's kind of inevitable.. but lets see, this is the first time i've obsessed with getting form perfect rather than just good enough to get by

Quote
If you want to remain more upright in your squat, start with the weight centered more towards the heel a little. This will enable you to push the knees a little farther forward, without getting onto the toes and affecting the knees in a negative way. 

love the tips. Will try that tomorrow, thank you!

Quote
The position you have there in the hole is a world away from a 90 degree torso low  bar hump squat, and will generate tons of quad/glute activity!

true its not a blatant GM atm.

Believe it or not but i've come a long way in my backsquat from just this last month so i'm happy to keep trying to improve it. hopefully i can get it to a point where its good enuf and then i can just concentrate on maintaining form while adding mad weight (the plan is to do that once im done cutting to 10% bf). So i'm trying to get my ducks in a row for once i'm ready to gain some weight and hopefully add some 40kg to my backsquat to finally get that 2BW BS etc.

I just spent a good amount of tonight reading stuff about squatting and ive got some ideas to try out tomorrow for being more upright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_jxTc2ITA8

I watched some chinese oly lifters backsquat and i noticed they're looking UP not just infront. im going to experiment with that to see if it makes me more upright. I also read that for HBBS you want to lead up with the chest (not hips) out of the hole).. but im not sure if that will work with my current squat.

Btw i'm not sure when it happened, but i think ive decided at some point I want to switch to HBBS. I dont know if you'll approve lance, because i know you like aspects of the LBBS, i just feel like i'd like to squat in a way which will make my legs stronger and make my front squat go up without the actual pain of front squatting heavy often. I still wanna FS 2x a week, and at least 1x heavy but getting a bit intimidated by setting a PR every time i do them since im not very sure if my form is good
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 03:32:06 pm

  I think its a fine idea if you want to switch to high bar, but keep plenty of direct ham work in your program so your knees dont start bugging out. 

The low bar position is easier on many peoples knees and helps the imbalance issues that many have, but should still be done in a similar manner to a high bar squat and intentionally made into a deadlift so you can lift more weight. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 03:34:32 pm
Knees point ahead?

Wish me luck going lower than half squat depth with my knees pointing straight forward...

I dont think that picture is optimal for everyone, it was only to show that there are many different opinions on squats than what rippetoe preaches has to happen.  Look at the low  bar squats that are in the article thread, many different ways to do things, depends on what your goals are. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 16, 2012, 03:38:08 pm

  I think its a fine idea if you want to switch to high bar, but keep plenty of direct ham work in your program so your knees dont start bugging out.

Definitely, i'll not stop doing RDLs, they're always staying in my training now regardless of what squats i'm using.

Quote
The low bar position is easier on many peoples knees and helps the imbalance issues that many have, but should still be done in a similar manner to a high bar squat and intentionally made into a deadlift so you can lift more weight.  

ive been having knee problems lately but never had them when i did only LBBS. I think from bad reps on the FS. Understood though, i'll keep that in mind.

Thanks again lance.

Also that picture (raptors) was drawn by lon kilgore. i can't remember who drew the 2nd one but it might have been kono but i could be wrong
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 16, 2012, 04:14:31 pm
I dont think that picture is optimal for everyone, it was only to show that there are many different opinions on squats than what rippetoe preaches has to happen.

Um... there are?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 05:23:04 pm

  I think its a fine idea if you want to switch to high bar, but keep plenty of direct ham work in your program so your knees dont start bugging out.

Definitely, i'll not stop doing RDLs, they're always staying in my training now regardless of what squats i'm using.

Quote
The low bar position is easier on many peoples knees and helps the imbalance issues that many have, but should still be done in a similar manner to a high bar squat and intentionally made into a deadlift so you can lift more weight.  

ive been having knee problems lately but never had them when i did only LBBS. I think from bad reps on the FS. Understood though, i'll keep that in mind.

Thanks again lance.

Also that picture (raptors) was drawn by lon kilgore. i can't remember who drew the 2nd one but it might have been kono but i could be wrong

 Kilgore the first one ya, kono the second one.  http://ditillo2.blogspot.com/2008/08/olympic-squat-tommy-kono.html
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 16, 2012, 05:39:53 pm
  also, didnt see your question earlier on chest/hip drive, but I like the cue of "driving the floor away from you".  Think of staying tight and upright on the way down, then push the floor away from you, while maintaining the torso position.  This seems to work the best for most imo.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2012, 11:36:26 am
  also, didnt see your question earlier on chest/hip drive, but I like the cue of "driving the floor away from you".  Think of staying tight and upright on the way down, then push the floor away from you, while maintaining the torso position.  This seems to work the best for most imo.

good one, i should collect these into one place somewhere!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism: w8d3
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2012, 11:42:38 am
Training
TM warmup (~3 minutes, damn i havent done cardio for months! i shud add some in to help with fat loss, maybe weds)
SQ 2x112.5 (to think i was conservative ONLY going for 112.5 lol .. i bombed this, horrible forms)
FS 3x105 (PR), 3x95 (backoff set)
SQ 3x6x102.5  (ok form, I wish I had some traps so I could do HB, the damn thing is uncomfy on my bone lol)
5x30m sprints (best time 04:38 - i couldnt get close to this time a 2nd time though, all my other times were around 04:60 so dunno, might just be an erronous measurement altho i did feel very quick on that sprint so .. we'll see)
~5 SVJ jumps
BP 6,5,5 77.5 (ive stalled already, now what? fuck)
~20 deadhang chins

FS form was horrible, my 3rd rep was super ugly. upper back rounded like a mothafucker. just a bad training week, my legs have been piss weak, hoping next week will be better. i would post the video but its too ugly.. edit i'll post it anyway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Szmw2i06Ug

Was good to sprint after almost 3 wks off. have picked up where i left off which is good.

Did some jumps, my SVJ is VERY close to my 2 step RVJ (is this called drop step?) - but I could hit the rim SVJ with the base of my palm, close to my wrist, so thats 7.5" above the rim, making my SVJ 29.5" - it counts for fuck all though cos i still cant dunk )

This whole thing took me hours. I've decided to move RDLs to mondays. Also moving bench assistance to mondays. And i'm thinking i should do bw chinups on weds, and on mondays and fridays i should do banded ones in the AM so my usual PM workouts dont get too long.

i'll make a detailed post of my program soon, have to move around a few exercises so workloads btw sessions is evenly distributed

Bodyweight: 83.6kg
Title: Re: chasing athleticism: seeking program feedback
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2012, 03:52:18 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/NXUFe.png)

ok guys tell me why its stupid or what i should fix .. or do differently

also shud i be doing PENDLAY ROWS? What day?

Anything else i shud add or remove
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 17, 2012, 05:16:02 pm

  What are your top 5 priorities or goals  in order 1-5?

 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 17, 2012, 05:47:27 pm

  What are your top 5 priorities or goals  in order 1-5?

 

1. Get down to 10% bf (prob around 80kg bw)
2. Get bench unstuck and progressing smoothly towards 120kg (1.5bw)
3. front squat 1.5bw triple
4.  Jump higher, move quicker on the court,  well conditioned
5. Add 2" to my biceps so I look like I lift
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 18, 2012, 02:54:19 am

  What are your top 5 priorities or goals  in order 1-5?

 

1. Get down to 10% bf (prob around 80kg bw)
2. Get bench unstuck and progressing smoothly towards 120kg (1.5bw)
3. front squat 1.5bw triple
4.  Jump higher, move quicker on the court,  well conditioned
5. Add 2" to my biceps so I look like I lift

For 2, extensions of some type will help the bench the most after bench press itself.  Skull crushers, tate press, etc. work great.

for 3, you have kind of a high rep scheme for fronts, might try 2 s and singles, theyre easier to progress with fronts.

for 5 lol, make sure you pick a type of curl that you actually FEEL in the biceps.  This makes the most difference imo, and continuous tension works wonders here.

pendlay rows are a great exercise, if you do them put them in on your easiest workout day.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 18, 2012, 04:11:40 am
2. I'll add the extensions as bench assistance

3. I'll try doubles and singles. Should I aim for around ~10 reps total? 15?

5. The only one I FEEL in my arms is the cable curl, i like that cos it holds tension continuously like you said. But i recently started doing straight bar curls as well, 3x8x30kg and i'm thinking if I get that up to 3x8x60kg i shud see some growth from that alone too.

cool i'll do them when i have a workout that feels easy

cheers lance!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 18, 2012, 05:59:27 am
(http://i.imgur.com/NXUFe.png)

ok guys tell me why its stupid or what i should fix .. or do differently

also shud i be doing PENDLAY ROWS? What day?

Anything else i shud add or remove

Updated. Upper back assistance can be any of Pendlay Rows, banded chins or heavy rack pulls, depending on what I feel like, i'll prob alternate thru them.

I kept 3x4 FS on mondays with a medium weight, for volume/form work - but on fridays i'll do heavier singles, doubles and triples. I don't want to do heavy front squats 2x a week, it gets a bit too much while cutting (am i a pussy?).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 19, 2012, 02:58:37 am
2. I'll add the extensions as bench assistance

3. I'll try doubles and singles. Should I aim for around ~10 reps total? 15?

5. The only one I FEEL in my arms is the cable curl, i like that cos it holds tension continuously like you said. But i recently started doing straight bar curls as well, 3x8x30kg and i'm thinking if I get that up to 3x8x60kg i shud see some growth from that alone too.

cool i'll do them when i have a workout that feels easy

cheers lance!


 Depends on the load your using for total reps, but a good rule of thumb is 20-30 reps with >80 percent 1rm when using 2's, and 10-20 with > 85 percent when using singles.


 With the curls, you may get some good growth if you can keep the tension on the biceps well during straight bar curls, a lot of longer armed guys cant though.  Dumbell curls done like the standing barbell curl can really make a difference in these cases.  Either way good luck, looks good.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 19, 2012, 08:31:52 am
Shit thats a lot of reps haha. I might have to back off the backsquat volume then if I wanna increase front squat volume. Not sure I care, I have started to think the backsquat is a complete waste of time now. I should have joined a gym and used a leg press all this time. fucking barbell propaganda man.

Sunday jumping practice .. did about 40 jumps, no pickup games, got lazy

5 SVJ, 5 dunk attempts
2x8 band swings (yellow, a bit too easy, i was trying to save my orange band by using yellow more but yellow is close to useless)
5 SVJ, 5 dunk attempts (best SVJ attempt was when I hit the rim with my arm under my wrist, thats very close to my best two step vertical)
2x10 yellow band jumps
Got my first SVJ dunk, it was bullshit

seems the band stuff actually helps add a few inches. i was jumping pretty mediocre before I used the bands. and yes i was warm and i did lots of jumps before trying banded swings/jumps

not bad an effort for a day i was feeling far from 100%

but i stupidly left my band behind so gotta drive back now at night to get it before someone else takes it. gives me an excuse to take a measuring tape and see how high those rings are, my friend said they're low, and i suspect as much but i'd like to know for sure
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 19, 2012, 12:43:23 pm
Has anyone read Gary's article? I found myself reading it last night, cos I used to look up to this guy and he was the one who really sold me on using a belt for squatting. Anyway one very interesting thing in the article was Gary's explanation that the backsquat turns into a squatmorning not because of weak quads (!) but because of hamstrings. Gary goes on to claim that not only are the quads NOT weak, they're strong they've actually done their job.

If Gary is right, then as i'm watching the horrible video of me doing squat mornings with 5x137.5kg, i'm looking at someone with good quad strength but bad hamstring strength. If Gary is right, that person in the video had strong legs. Can this shit be true? I dont know. But suppose I follow Gary's logic, I see my ass going from the bottom position in the hole to the quarter squat position quickly and easily - what muscles ARE in charge of that? Glutes and quads? Hams? ANd of course to finish the squat morning from the 1/4 squat position i push away from the belt and good morning the bar up.

Shit is confusing man lol
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 19, 2012, 01:03:32 pm

 Think about it this way man, your body is getting into a position it needs to be to use the muscles that are the strongest, or the movement patterns its most familiar with.  In most cases, the lean happens when guys want to use their lower back more to aid the lift.  Plenty of quad dominant people squat upright as hell, in fact, they tend to miss the lift very quickly with even a slight lean. 

 I havent read  the article your referencing, but if he is talking about a low bar squat it would make more sense. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 19, 2012, 01:17:26 pm
Think about it this way man, your body is getting into a position it needs to be to use the muscles that are the strongest, or the movement patterns its most familiar with.

That makes sense but are we on the same page. I'm not talking about the last half of the lift which is a definite GM. I'm talking about the segment consisting of moving out of the hole up to 1/4 squat position, which then finishes with the GM in the next segment. To get to the 1/4 squat position what musculature is responsible for the movement out of the hole. That's not the lower back is it. The last segment (GM) definitely is all back without doubt

Quote
In most cases, the lean happens when guys want to use their lower back more to aid the lift.  Plenty of quad dominant people squat upright as hell, in fact, they tend to miss the lift very quickly with even a slight lean.  

In my video, at the 1/4 squat position after coming out of the hole, my back is fully horizontal. No doubt whatsover that the rest of the lift is all good morning. and if thats my body getting itself in a position to lift the weight then that's happening because the bar went fwd and i lost the back angle

Quote
I havent read  the article your referencing, but if he is talking about a low bar squat it would make more sense.  
its titled "Powerlifting, Year One" - by gary gibson if you're interested

When ppl do 1/4 squats, their back isn't horizontal obviously, but if it was, then the lift wud not be a quad dominant movement. but in my case with a horizontal back, it was all GM, no quad. I think Gary is wrong anyway, quads dont move the bar out of the bottom of a LBBS. And in later years he changed his mind on the LBBS and he thinks HBBS is better become its more leg dominant than is LBBS
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 19, 2012, 01:37:17 pm

That makes sense but are we on the same page. I'm not talking about the last half of the lift which is a definite GM. I'm talking about the segment consisting of moving out of the hole up to 1/4 squat position, which then finishes with the GM in the next segment. To get to the 1/4 squat position what musculature is responsible for the movement out of the hole. That's not the lower back is it. The last segment (GM) definitely is all back without doubt

RIght, thats what I mean when I say, the body is getting into a position to use the musculature it wants to.

 If you allow it, you will press straight out in front of you during an overhead press too, its easier that way, for a while.  The GLUTES are what I think youre looking for in the position you described, the hamstrings will get more activity the greater the torso lean.  When you weak glutes and weak quads, youre going to naturally want to lean and drive your hips up first to get more leverage from different muscles.


Quote
In my video, at the 1/4 squat position after coming out of the hole, my back is fully horizontal. No doubt whatsover that the rest of the lift is all good morning. and if thats my body getting itself in a position to lift the weight then that's happening because the bar went fwd and i lost the back angle

or simply having not placed a priority on staying upright long enough for it to become habit yet, and having learned "drive your hips up" vs staying tall and driving the body up as a unit, chest and shoulders up first,  in the way you do in any athletic movement in history.  


Quote
its titled "Powerlifting, Year One" - by gary gibson if you're interested

When ppl do 1/4 squats, their back isn't horizontal obviously, but if it was, then the lift wud not be a quad dominant movement. but in my case with a horizontal back, it was all GM, no quad. I think Gary is wrong anyway, quads dont move the bar out of the bottom of a LBBS. And in later years he changed his mind on the LBBS and he thinks HBBS is better become its more leg dominant than is LBBS

yea I am not sure what he is getting at there, a certain degree of isometric strength is required from the hamstrings at the position you are describing, but it is so miniscule compared to the strength required of the glutes and quads to actually drive the body up, in an upright position. Its simply not an issue in most cases, in fact I would say in my experience most quad dominant guys will stay upright naturally, while guys who have more hamstring strength and weak quads  will tend to have to be cued to do so.  

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 20, 2012, 04:26:26 am
or simply having not placed a priority on staying upright long enough for it to become habit yet, and having learned "drive your hips up" vs staying tall and driving the body up as a unit, chest and shoulders up first,  in the way you do in any athletic movement in history.  

The other day you gave me the tip to have the weight back on my heels when starting a squat, which was a great tip because im realising i wasn't even upright and actually leaning fwd at the top when about to start squatting down. I guess I have to work very hard to correct these patterns cos they've become ingrained. What I'd give to start from scratch but with better squat instruction!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 20, 2012, 04:42:43 am
or simply having not placed a priority on staying upright long enough for it to become habit yet, and having learned "drive your hips up" vs staying tall and driving the body up as a unit, chest and shoulders up first,  in the way you do in any athletic movement in history.  

The other day you gave me the tip to have the weight back on my heels when starting a squat, which was a great tip because im realising i wasn't even upright and actually leaning fwd at the top when about to start squatting down. I guess I have to work very hard to correct these patterns cos they've become ingrained. What I'd give to start from scratch but with better squat instruction!

Yea, here is a good pic from Everett on the path, its actually further to the rear in most cases.

(http://www.catalystathletics.com/blog/images/080518-lowHighTorque.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 20, 2012, 05:31:22 am
prob obvious to you lance but when you look at the right pic, if that guy kept going deeper, his back wud get more vertical (this is prob true for any squat regardless of bar placement?) as well as his knees more forward. of course that might not possible with low bar with hips way back. I only just made that connection recently. Am thinking when I switch to highbar, i'll work on mobility so my squats are deep and upright.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 20, 2012, 09:02:50 am
prob obvious to you lance but when you look at the right pic, if that guy kept going deeper, his back wud get more vertical (this is prob true for any squat regardless of bar placement?) as well as his knees more forward. of course that might not possible with low bar with hips way back. I only just made that connection recently. Am thinking when I switch to highbar, i'll work on mobility so my squats are deep and upright.

  He could, if he relaxed his hamstrings, however thats against what Rippetoe preaches apparently.  The worst part imo of all that is driving your hips up vs driving YOU up.  What happens most of the time, in that picture if he were to go lower, he would simply get more leaned over, and keep the same or very similar knee angle.

 Looking at your front squat, I dont think mobility will be your issue, I think motor learning and getting stronger around the knee will have to take place to really make you comfortable with it. You can squat pretty upright with a low bar position too, and this is not a bad way to do it, you have to groove the squat differently though than your typical low bar, and drive your chest and shoulders, not your hips.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 20, 2012, 09:36:09 am
and drive your chest and shoulders, not your hips.

Is there a bigger blasphemy?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 20, 2012, 11:17:19 am
The worst part imo of all that is driving your hips up vs driving YOU up.  What happens most of the time, in that picture if he were to go lower, he would simply get more leaned over, and keep the same or very similar knee angle.

Yeah, I see what you mean.

Quote
Looking at your front squat, I dont think mobility will be your issue, I think motor learning and getting stronger around the knee will have to take place to really make you comfortable with it. You can squat pretty upright with a low bar position too, and this is not a bad way to do it, you have to groove the squat differently though than your typical low bar, and drive your chest and shoulders, not your hips.

It's funny you should say this, I came away with a similar impression from todays workout. I'll explain in my workout summary.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w9d1
Post by: entropy on August 20, 2012, 11:29:19 am
Training
BS 3x90,2x100 (these were just warmups but cos I didn't do anything heavier than this i'll log these)
SQ 4x87.5-95 (nb notation for 4x95,4x92.5,4x90,4x87.5)
BS - 87.5x0 (didnt even do one rep lol)
BP - nope lol
RDL - 3x122.5 (PR), 10x97.5 (PR), 10x90

I only did front squats, wasn't planning only doing front squats, it just happened that way. Btw from now on I shall call the FS just a plain squat. To me it's the real deal, the only genuine squat. The other one is a BACK squat =  back/hamstring exercise, just an assistance exercise for the real squat.

I have to say a word about higher rep (reminder = front)  squats. I found these a wonderful exercise. After I was done squatting, I couldn't do anything else though. It fatigued all my back muscles, so much so that I could barely unrack 87.5kg (!!) for a backsquat warmup. In fact I just racked it, cos it felt so heavy on my back just walking it out. So a weight I could rep 4 times in my 4th set of squats, i couldn't even walk out of the rack on my back. Weird.

It goes on, the same thing happened with bench press. I got thru my warmups ok, but first rep of my workset and I hit the pins. It wasnt happening. Squats tired out my upper body (!) - i cudnt bench press.

RDLs were a struggle to start with, warming up, i could barely grip the bar with my 2nd warmup - 3x90kg. I somehow got 122.5x3 with good form, and then after that, the last 2 sets were real easy. I had made a conscious decision that if my grip was my weakness, then i'd try to get thru the set quickly, cos the longer it went, the more my grip wud suffer, and i'd fail not cos of my hamstrings but becos of grip. Turned out real easy when done quickly, i could have probably done another 10 reps that way!

But this changes everything. Squats, real squats are the antidote to the shitty excuse i'd been doing before. And i need to put the backsquat on the back burner, i'll do them dont worry, but just as an afterthought, i'll maintain my strength and slowly increase them over time but it's not a main priority now. The priority is to progress squats and once i get them up i'll have taught my body the right way to behave.

The darkness is finally over.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 20, 2012, 12:19:03 pm
Here's my argument for (F)SQ over BS

Have only been doing SQ for a short time but already

1. SQ is quickly catching up to BS, last wk I did 105x3 on SQ vs 110x2 on BS - very little to differentiate them
2. SQ form is better than BS form
3. progress in BS comes at the cost of form - squatmornings happen because legs are weak and back is much stronger, lighter backsquats do nothing for legs, and heavier backsquats are too much for legs and eaten up greedily for breakfast by much stronger back
4. SQ is remedial for squatmorning BS pattern - it fixes that and it teaches uprightness which will carry over to BS, in fact already has to some degree
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 20, 2012, 03:41:33 pm
Here's my argument for (F)SQ over BS

Have only been doing SQ for a short time but already

1. SQ is quickly catching up to BS, last wk I did 105x3 on SQ vs 110x2 on BS - very little to differentiate them
2. SQ form is better than BS form
3. progress in BS comes at the cost of form - squatmornings happen because legs are weak and back is much stronger, lighter backsquats do nothing for legs, and heavier backsquats are too much for legs and eaten up greedily for breakfast by much stronger back
4. SQ is remedial for squatmorning BS pattern - it fixes that and it teaches uprightness which will carry over to BS, in fact already has to some degree

fwiw, youre not nearly the only one thats come to this conclusion.  As long as youre keeping balance in your legs with the hams and quads, go for it. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 21, 2012, 02:06:30 pm
Here's my argument for (F)SQ over BS

Have only been doing SQ for a short time but already

1. SQ is quickly catching up to BS, last wk I did 105x3 on SQ vs 110x2 on BS - very little to differentiate them
2. SQ form is better than BS form
3. progress in BS comes at the cost of form - squatmornings happen because legs are weak and back is much stronger, lighter backsquats do nothing for legs, and heavier backsquats are too much for legs and eaten up greedily for breakfast by much stronger back
4. SQ is remedial for squatmorning BS pattern - it fixes that and it teaches uprightness which will carry over to BS, in fact already has to some degree

fwiw, youre not nearly the only one thats come to this conclusion.  As long as youre keeping balance in your legs with the hams and quads, go for it.  

I much appreciate your by-needs approach to training. It's suprisingly refreshing in this world of hard and fast internet experts. From stumbling thru pitfalls ive grown wary of dogmatic 'you must do X or you are pussy' thinking which doesn't take into account what's best for a given individual. And done, i'll heed your refrain to keep hamstring work. Either an extra day of RDLs to make 2x weekly - or try to setup a makeshift GHR or just keep one day, probably wednesdays for backsquats.

RDLs and Front Squats are my two special lifts. They come easier to me, form is good, and I am progressing well while enjoying my training. Compared to conventional deadlifts and LBBS backsquats it's a world of difference. I'm going to stick with them and make them my bread and butter and see how far they take me in becoming athletic.

Today was a bad diet day. I blew it both meals, meal 1 - I had a slice of cake and about a bowl of creamy chicken pasta. Then for dinner I had another slice of cake after eating dinner. It doesn't sound like much when i've written it down, but that's on top of my usual meals. It just brings home the lesson I learnt earlier today - that while cutting I have no business touching any food with excess dietary fat. Pasta is ok but that rich pasta was bad. Dietary fat will just go right back as bodyfat.  Eggs and lowfat milk fat is ok, even a teaspoon of butter for cooking is ok. What's not ok are fatty foods that do not belong in my day-to-day, nutrition as a (wannabe) athlete. Lesson learnt I hope. I want to salvage the week/month and still hit my goal of being ~82.5kg. Will need to lose a just under a kilo in 10 days.  Should be do-able.

Btw I realised I've actually looked leaner about a month and a half ago even though fatter and weighed more!  How does that work you ask? It's because I was doing a lot more cardio then. I was playing basketball regularly and that preferentially burns bellyfat for me (maybe not for everyone in general). So I've got that trick under my sleeve in my battle against bodyfat. I've also had good success in the past with keto diets - I lost the majority of my weight from a heavy ~250lb/110kg using low carb diets. Another weapon I've not yet used is using stimulants. I was hoping to get under 15% before pulling out any special tricks but we'll see how it goes, the option is always there. I'd rather save them for when I need them though. That way I still have them under my disposal to break plateaus.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 22, 2012, 02:32:06 am
(http://s16.postimage.org/5904onl6d/graph3978586810408637252.png)

BW=83.25kg/183.54lb

K time to be ultra strickt for 10 days. I'll have a cheat meal or two though, family obligations, cos I haven't seen my sister in a long time and she's visiting and I don't want to be That Dieting Guy.

Have also decided to do daily cardio. Not hardcore 1hour long sweating like a pig cardio, just gentle fasted daily TM for 10 mins in the morning, and 5 mins before workouts, what I should be doing normally anyway. This doesn't stop me from doing hardcore cardio later when I'm closer to 10% -  it just means i'll be better adapted for THAT then by gradually building up to it in the mean time.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 22, 2012, 02:47:28 am
Here's my argument for (F)SQ over BS

Have only been doing SQ for a short time but already

1. SQ is quickly catching up to BS, last wk I did 105x3 on SQ vs 110x2 on BS - very little to differentiate them
2. SQ form is better than BS form
3. progress in BS comes at the cost of form - squatmornings happen because legs are weak and back is much stronger, lighter backsquats do nothing for legs, and heavier backsquats are too much for legs and eaten up greedily for breakfast by much stronger back
4. SQ is remedial for squatmorning BS pattern - it fixes that and it teaches uprightness which will carry over to BS, in fact already has to some degree

fwiw, youre not nearly the only one thats come to this conclusion.  As long as youre keeping balance in your legs with the hams and quads, go for it.  

I much appreciate your by-needs approach to training. It's suprisingly refreshing in this world of hard and fast internet experts. From stumbling thru pitfalls ive grown wary of dogmatic 'you must do X or you are pussy' thinking which doesn't take into account what's best for a given individual. And done, i'll heed your refrain to keep hamstring work. Either an extra day of RDLs to make 2x weekly - or try to setup a makeshift GHR or just keep one day, probably wednesdays for backsquats.

RDLs and Front Squats are my two special lifts. They come easier to me, form is good, and I am progressing well while enjoying my training. Compared to conventional deadlifts and LBBS backsquats it's a world of difference. I'm going to stick with them and make them my bread and butter and see how far they take me in becoming athletic.

Today was a bad diet day. I blew it both meals, meal 1 - I had a slice of cake and about a bowl of creamy chicken pasta. Then for dinner I had another slice of cake after eating dinner. It doesn't sound like much when i've written it down, but that's on top of my usual meals. It just brings home the lesson I learnt earlier today - that while cutting I have no business touching any food with excess dietary fat. Pasta is ok but that rich pasta was bad. Dietary fat will just go right back as bodyfat.  Eggs and lowfat milk fat is ok, even a teaspoon of butter for cooking is ok. What's not ok are fatty foods that do not belong in my day-to-day, nutrition as a (wannabe) athlete. Lesson learnt I hope. I want to salvage the week/month and still hit my goal of being ~82.5kg. Will need to lose a just under a kilo in 10 days.  Should be do-able.

Btw I realised I've actually looked leaner about a month and a half ago even though fatter and weighed more!  How does that work you ask? It's because I was doing a lot more cardio then. I was playing basketball regularly and that preferentially burns bellyfat for me (maybe not for everyone in general). So I've got that trick under my sleeve in my battle against bodyfat. I've also had good success in the past with keto diets - I lost the majority of my weight from a heavy ~250lb/110kg using low carb diets. Another weapon I've not yet used is using stimulants. I was hoping to get under 15% before pulling out any special tricks but we'll see how it goes, the option is always there. I'd rather save them for when I need them though. That way I still have them under my disposal to break plateaus.

appreciate the kind words man. We are glad to have you here man, I see big things coming from you in the future if you keep  busting ass and training the way youve  been.  Keep up the good work in here, always like to read this log.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w9d2
Post by: entropy on August 22, 2012, 10:11:28 am
Training
BS 3x105-100
OHP 4x55,3x53.5,5x52.5,5x53.5,4x52.5,5x52
Push Press 3,3,5,5,3x60 (5 is a PR - new lift)
CURLZ 3x8x39.5 (PR)
Chins  ~bwx20 deadhang
Cable curls 3x8
hanging knee raises 3x8

Really happy with BS form. I have successfully uncoached myself from LBBS. I now understand what Glenn meant when he said you just put the bar on your back and squat it, you don't need any detailed manual to learn how to do HBBS. The only struggle really is having to consciously force myself not to think of the myraid cues to go thru to do a correct LBBS - with HBBS it's just put the bar on the back at the right position, now squat. I avoid leaning fwd and thats it, the other thing I did was try to feel the weight thru the heels throughout the lift. Result? 4 nice looking reps, nice depth, upright and smooth. Only caveat was 5th rep was borderline acceptable, and 6th was a bit squatmorning. Not as bad as I used to squat morning but that's not good enough, i want to have all perfect reps. I'll keep working at it.

I couldn't understand why my OHP has been going nowhere but finally I saw why. I taped the sets and saw clearly I was leaning over too much. And then I remembered whenever I did OHP in the past, i did them barefoot, which helps keep me upright - so hopefully starting next week i'll be progressing on these.

Tried push presses after the recent discussion about them for basketball, decided I like them and will keep them after presses on weds. Much more fun than doing 3x8 with a lighter press for assistance.

appreciate the kind words man. We are glad to have you here man, I see big things coming from you in the future if you keep  busting ass and training the way youve  been.  Keep up the good work in here, always like to read this log.

 ;D :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 23, 2012, 01:27:31 am
I've not benched "heavy" since Friday but i've had doms around my chest. This is probably a good sign. Im putting it down to squatting upright.

I think i'm close to moving from average to fitness in bodyfat

Ripped (<10%) --- Athletic (<13%) --- Fitness (<15%) --- Me --- Average (~20%) --- Fat (>20%)

I'll prob be in the "fitness"  category when I get to 82kg. And athletic at around 80kg.

On a tangent, if I were to start doing a lot of cardio, my bellyfat would go down appreciably and i'd look a lot leaner but without changing my strength/weight ratio much. But i'll do that later, even though i'm sick of being fat :/
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on August 23, 2012, 04:22:54 am

I think i'm close to moving from average to fitness in bodyfat

Ripped (<10%) --- Athletic (<13%) --- Fitness (<15%) --- Me --- Average (~20%) --- Fat (>20%)

I'll prob be in the "fitness"  category when I get to 82kg. And athletic at around 80kg.

On a tangent, if I were to start doing a lot of cardio, my bellyfat would go down appreciably and i'd look a lot leaner but without changing my strength/weight ratio much. But i'll do that later, even though i'm sick of being fat :/

That's me too. We are the same bw, same bf, more or less same responses to diet/bulk.
But i never get unlazy enough to do my cardio. I also don't want to go below 82-83 kg, probably because i was weak and skinny all my life. So i end up cycling between 15-20% bodyfat / 85-90kg. 15% feels good for me, i could use some less belly slab but oh well...
Keep it up man , i enjoy this journal a lot, both the training progress and the insight/literature.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 23, 2012, 12:00:57 pm

I think i'm close to moving from average to fitness in bodyfat

Ripped (<10%) --- Athletic (<13%) --- Fitness (<15%) --- Me --- Average (~20%) --- Fat (>20%)

I'll prob be in the "fitness"  category when I get to 82kg. And athletic at around 80kg.

On a tangent, if I were to start doing a lot of cardio, my bellyfat would go down appreciably and i'd look a lot leaner but without changing my strength/weight ratio much. But i'll do that later, even though i'm sick of being fat :/

That's me too. We are the same bw, same bf, more or less same responses to diet/bulk.
But i never get unlazy enough to do my cardio. I also don't want to go below 82-83 kg, probably because i was weak and skinny all my life. So i end up cycling between 15-20% bodyfat / 85-90kg. 15% feels good for me, i could use some less belly slab but oh well...
Keep it up man , i enjoy this journal a lot, both the training progress and the insight/literature.

lol I am my own worst enemy. I know if I can string together 7 days of perfect compliance to a diet i'll get MUCH leaner than i've ever been but that's proving to be difficult. I did manage a whole week this month, and saw progress but since then its 2 days on, 1 day off, then repeat, kinda going nowhere fast. I really hate cutting. I know everyone does but i've struggled a lot with it because i've been cutting for so long and the days of going 6 weeks strictly without tripping up are long gone. I can't bring up the same amount of discipline now as I did then. Maybe because it's more to do with my body fighting to keep the bodyfat than before. It's hard to say.

I actually enjoy cardio, gives me a chance to listen to some music and unwind. It just sucks when it fatigues legs which leads to bad squat workouts. Maybe I shud just swallow the temporary hit to lifts and get the cutting out of the way though.

My brother came over this weekend and for some bizarre reason he went out and bought a massive chocolate cake. He ate like a slice or two and then left the rest in the fridge for me to finish. So i've been slowly working thru it, a slice here a slice there. I was doing so well just avoiding food I shudnt eat but i haven't got the self discipline to avoid indulging the cravings when the temptation is so near.

But yeah I shud just get the cutting out of the way and stop fucking around. Starting NOW :P

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 24, 2012, 03:03:48 am
(http://s16.postimage.org/gmdxrul1h/graph2125615812570703889.png)

BW=82.75kg/182.43lb

Going to post these up every friday. That way it corresponds to FS PRs (hopefully), and it gives a useful week-to-week progress report. If I drop 1 pound this week, i'll end up at around 82.5kg - if I drop 2 pounds i'll be in the low 82s. I think my goal for the month is 82.5kg or under - so i'll keep that in sight. 7 days of perfect compliance = goal achieved.

Ive fasted 19 hours, not intentionally just kind of happened, and then did 1km on the treadmill fasted. Will dial in nutrition today, and the weekend, i'll have a cheat meal probably for dinner on saturday. Pickup ball on sunday for a caloric deficit from training. That's the plan.

Also i've got a 35" waist now. I'm glad to see the waist size decreasing, even if I have to drag it along kicking and screaming just to see small changes compared to scale changes.

I must say the one thing I get right is breakfast. Whether i'm cutting or just eating normally, my breakfast is always quite good. It's the one meal i'll get 100% right 98% of the time, 365 days a year. While on this recent cut it looks something like this:

3 whole eggs, boiled or cooked in 1/2 tspoon butter
2 slices wholemeal toast (not buttered)

using the above i'll make an egg sandwich which tastes great and is nutritious.

Then i'll have a banana and another fruit, orange or what've been eating currently since they are in season, strawberries (~6 of these).

And finish it off with a whey shake in 400mL lowfat milk + 100mL fullcream milk, 1.5 scoops of whey.

That's it, pretty quick and easy and well balanced in calories and nutrients. The only way to improve it wud be to add some veg and meat, but i'm not into eating those things for breakfast.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 24, 2012, 04:58:15 am
I find your log the hardest log to follow because you write so much in it each time (much like what Avishek is doing). So I just see how much is written and go "nah... I don't want to read all that" and just pass on. But hey, who cares about what I do, right? Just thought I'd say this.

I do respect your passion and dedication though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 24, 2012, 06:41:20 am
I see what you mean, i tend to go dear diary mode a bit too much even tho I try avoid it sometimes. Maybe I shud make 15 minute youtube videos instead and then you'll say, why can't you just write it down somewhere so i can read it in like 2 seconds :P Thanks though, also to vag.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Rix on August 24, 2012, 08:21:40 am
Your journal is one of my favorites to read. I actually like the length of your posts. They give a lot of detail and explain your interpretation of what's going on as you train. For example I struggle in a similar way with the BS and thanks to your analysis am now inclined to try FS'ing once I am able to comfortably do legs again. Keep up the hard work!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 24, 2012, 10:36:07 am
Thank you for the kind words Rix!  ;D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w9d3
Post by: entropy on August 24, 2012, 10:56:33 am
Training
CGBP 5x78.5, 6x75, 6x72.5
WGBP 3x5x67.5
BS 2x110 (HBBS - PR? It's a new lift this HBBS so why not)
SQ 2x107.5 (PR), 1x110 (PR), 2x106, 2x2x100
BS 5x107.5 (HBBS PR), 5x105
5x30m sprints (best time 04:34 - PR!)
5 SVJs (best jump 30" - PR)

BP notes - I don't like to do a lot of BP on fridays, esp this grindy. But the reason I did it today was because I didn't bench on Monday. That's why. Next week I will do a set or two of BP in the AM and get out of the gym. WGBP looks considerably more "normal" than CGBP - but I made a decision a while ago to stick with CGBP as my main lift since I want to have healthy shoulders as a priority and i'm not build for benching obviously so progress at the cost of broken shoulders is a dead breaker. WGBP is still light, and I don't intend to push it too far - just keeping it there for assistance since I have no chest development to speak of.

BS (I)notes - I like high bar. I am sold now. I wish I had switched to it a LONG time ago but my stupid ego wanted the stupid LBBS milestones which were never going to happen because LBBS is the WRONG lift for my body type. I could probably have done another rep on top of 110x2 but I was "saving" myself for front squats, so yeah. I was suprised to set PRs today. It's only like the 2nd or 3rd workout of using HBBS but it's becoming very familar, very quickly!

SQ notes  - I used Lance's recommendation and aimed for 10 reps of above 90% of 1RM. Here is the problem, what is my 1RM? But I worked that into the workout after going for 3x107.5 and racking it after getting 2 reps, I knew my 1RM was around there, and the next set was 1x110 which I would say is/was my training max - and probably pretty much my 1RM. Using that I calculated 90% was above 99kg, and lance had said to do singles with >90% but I did doubles instead to save time. That's funny because it still took me waaaay too long to finish squatting. I should probably move around the squatting load so half of it is AM and the rest PM. or something. Work in progress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRgw-YYUGJw
^1RM of 110kg - I was happy with this, it gave me a lot more confidence with the following sets knowing I could squat 110kg and anything lower than that would be do-able. Thanks lance for putting me on to singles and doubles.

BS (II)notes - Considered going for a third set but i wasn't sold on grinding myself into the ground with yet another set of squats, maybe 2 is enough. If i can progress with 2 sets why should I do more than that? I loved that I got 5x107.5 HBBS - my form was okay too. Looking forward to more squatting next week!

Then sprints, I wasn't happy with my starts on sprints. It just seemed i wasn't coming out strongly enough. Well finally had a breakthrough on my last sprint. I got my left knee down and used it to help push off the ground (usually only use my right leg). This made a difference, i came out blazing, and then I pushed hard as i could, and my time blew me away. Now keep in mind this was done after a whole load of squatting so i'm confident I can do a lot better if I work out a way to redistribute my friday squatting so i'm not too fatigued by the end of the PM session. That should help my sprints.

And yeah a PR on SVJ - i'll take it i guess. I'm still fat so hopefully I can improve a lot here. Wouldn't it be nice to have a 36 SVJ? :)

Oh and i've been diet compliant for 3 days now - will try to make that 10 days in a row so I can break into the 82s.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 24, 2012, 01:17:24 pm
squat looked good man.  :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 24, 2012, 02:14:08 pm
squat looked good man.  :highfive:

Yeah, it looked at some point he lost tension in the hamstrings for just a split second but otherwise...
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 25, 2012, 01:31:31 am
bosshoggin  :ibsquatting:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 26, 2012, 03:09:19 am
 :highfive:

diet stuff
Been putting in the work this weekend. Fasted like 14 hours yesterday, might have been 16, I can't remember exactly, then did 1.1km fasted cardio on the TM. Counted my calories for the day and they were around 1600. And today I fasted 19 hours! But i was so hungry by the end, I forgot I was supposed to do fasted dreadmill werk. Still, I drove at a high level of concentration for about an hour, so maybe that burnt a lot of calories, haha. Gonna eat around 1600 today too. And i might go out and play some ball later but I couldn't go to my usual pickup game due to family stuff.

bodycomp
When I look in the mirror I think, yea a kilo of moobs, about 2kilo around the belly, and maybe a kilo around my lower back. But that mirror lies and flatters like a motherfucka. All it takes is taking the regular forthnightly progress photos to realise that. I've still got more back bacon than my local KFC. It's kind of depressing that guys who lift around my height are LEANER at 90kg/200lb bw than I am at 83/183lb. Still, im not panicking, lemme get down to 80kg and if I still have ways to go to 10% then I can throw my hands up and complain about the genetics i've been dealt with, until then, just gonna put my head down and put in the work.


vertical jump stuff
I need a goal for my vertical and think the top of the shooting square on a backboard might be a good one. I've been searching online and it seems the top of the square on a backboard is 136" above the ground. That means if my standing reach is 98" (w/o shoes) - I would need to jump ~36" to touch the top corner of the square. I'm guessing my two step vert is around 31" now, so I'd need to add 5" on top of that. But then I haven't been jumping much for the last 5 wks since I got my first dunks. I did last wk but it bothered my ankle which I thought was perfectly healed until then - footwear is a big factor, the wrong shoes hurt my ankle more often than not.  And sadly my new shoes are no good. The other thing is my SVJ is very close to my moving jump, so that probably means once ive done cutting/squatting, i need to add some vertical specific training. But i'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w9d4
Post by: entropy on August 26, 2012, 09:42:31 am
Training
jumping practice - 5 SVJS, 5 RVJS  (new PRs - 30" SVJ, 33" RVJ? see below)
2 hours pickup basketball

I only attempted 1 dunk today. Someone asked me if I could dunk and I said, maybe, lets see, and then I went for it. I probably wouldn't have even tried today. I hate that feeling of trying your best and missing a dunk. It's embarassing when other ppl are around as well cos you feel worse lol. Anyway luckily on my very first jump of the day, very first attempt at dunking, I landed it, and it was a nice strong dunk. Which made me more confident so I did some more jumps - none with the ball, just because i didn't wanna fail.

After that I felt good about jumping so tried some SVJS and RVJs. See video of SVJ, im pretty sure its a new PR. I hit under my wrist, so i'm going to say thats about 8" above the rim, putting it at around 30" SVJ. It may be slightly more though but its hard to tell from ze veedeo.

I have played basketball only twice this last month. So i was a bit rusty with the ball. Just felt like my hands were 3 steps behind my brain. I should probably work on that. But damnit it feels good to play basketball sometimes. Got my magic johnson on and got some good assists. I was also surprised to see how easy it was to rebound today, I was grabbing the ball with ease for some reason.

edit, i'll post videos when I get a measured 36", it's too early to tell now and i haven't seriously started jumping so it's just a distraction for now. Gotta keep focusing on cutting and squatting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 26, 2012, 11:02:15 am
Man you have some long ass arms. What I can see is that your speed is not good in your jumps (the speed of executing the actual jump). It looks like you give a what, 40% of your max effort to do these jumps... pretty weird.

Maybe you should work with plyos and explosive stuff more in the near future as you get stronger is my point, and jump more often.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 26, 2012, 11:15:19 am
Thanks raptor. Do you think if you jump faster you can jump higher? I try to get as much power out of the jump thats why i jump slow, i could try speeding it up and see what difference it makes. Will try that next time.

Also, i was thinking recently that I shud do some hang cleans as an assitance ex to build some traps for highbar squats. might kill two stones with one bird that way, if i can improve explosiveness as well. does that sound like a good idea? i'll prob leave the fancier plyo, jump specific stuff for when i've finished cutting and then maxed out on my squats though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 26, 2012, 12:06:40 pm
You should experiment jumping more relaxed instead of more tensed up like you're doing right now. Right now you're thinking "I want to give my all in this jump and jump as high as possible" but instead you're tensing up and jump lower - I know that because I used to do it too and I still am doing it.

Weirdly enough, you're more likely to tense up when you're more tired than when you're fresh, so it might give you some feedback on that too - if you tense up all the time you might be overtraining. The reason for that is that when you're tired CNS-wise you're weaker and in order to "get up there" you need to recruit more muscle (or you think you need to) and you tense up. This messes up everything.

So next time try to do some more relaxed jumping, especially while planting. You can really push at the end of the jump when you take off but as you plant, "be like water, friend" to quote Bruce Lee.

PS. Shaving will give you 2 more inches.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 26, 2012, 12:18:41 pm
That (relaxed jumping) sounds completely counter intuitive and I must try it and see what happens. Thanks again! lol, i'm probably just jumping the gun and shud work on 10% bodyfat and my squat goals first :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: acole14 on August 27, 2012, 12:08:28 am
Thanks raptor. Do you think if you jump faster you can jump higher? I try to get as much power out of the jump thats why i jump slow, i could try speeding it up and see what difference it makes. Will try that next time.

Also, i was thinking recently that I shud do some hang cleans as an assitance ex to build some traps for highbar squats. might kill two stones with one bird that way, if i can improve explosiveness as well. does that sound like a good idea? i'll prob leave the fancier plyo, jump specific stuff for when i've finished cutting and then maxed out on my squats though.

Slow jumping is low jumping mate, I learned that way too late. Try a paused squat jump and really fast eccentric squat jump and see which one is higher for you.

Hang clean idea sounds good to me, when you're ready to do more explosive stuff you could transition to power cleans or full cleans and it wouldn't be too much of a jump for you technique-wise.

Good to see you're taking the common-sense approach of [cutting fat --> increase strength --> increase reactivity] to increase vert/athleticism. Intelligent training goes a long way.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 27, 2012, 02:18:25 am
Lol its goign to be a long week until next sunday when I get to jump again but I can't wait to try out this relaxed thing  :D

Quote
Good to see you're taking the common-sense approach of [cutting fat --> increase strength --> increase reactivity] to increase vert/athleticism. Intelligent training goes a long way.

Thank you :)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 27, 2012, 03:32:16 am
Yeah you can also experiment with your head position.

I personally have this tendency to look at the ground when I jump off two feet and I suck so hard when I do it - I basically orient my chest down and jump forward and low.

When I actually look at the rim, which is very difficult to do for me when I jump off two feet, I get higher. Pretty much always.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w10d1
Post by: entropy on August 27, 2012, 07:03:53 am
Training

Morning BW: 82.8kg

Session 1
CGBP 4x6x78.5-72.5 (PR!)
WGBP 3x5x70 (PR)

Finally a bench PR! Lifetime PR too, even when I weighed ~20kg more than this with a lot smaller ROM (on account of being a huge gigantic fatass) and much wider grip. I have a real good feeling i'll get another PR this coming friday too. Im not sure why i'm making progress on bench while cutting weight, cos most ppl struggle to maintain their bench during a cut, and i'm a bench press hardgainer. Whatever - PR -  I'll take it. Maybe the wide grip is helping a lot, it makes sense cos I probably neglected my chest by using CG all the time before. I can easily see my WGBP catching up to and passing my CGBP in about a months time.

Session 2
BS - 1x110, 1x112.5, 1x115, 1x117.5, 1x112.5 (HBBS PRs)
SQ - 4x4x97.5-90  (PR)
RDL - 3x125 (PR), 2x10x100 (PR)
Chins - yellow band - ~ 25 reps total

BS notes - Felt like backsquatting for some reason, so did 5 heavy singles. I picked up a tip from clarence's new HBBS article on taking a very narrow grip on the bar, it bunched up my "traps" lol - giving a better platform, also tightened up my upper back and pushed chest forward AS a RESULT of the narrower grip. Im also gripping the bar with thumbs around now, almost nothing resembling my old LBBS bar placement and grip. Form was good, im not squat morning these anymore. The bar isn't shifting forward and i'm not fwd leaning. Happy with the form then I turned to the other kind of squats.

SQ notes - Im starting to get bruises on my delts from front squatting.  Pretty disappointing day for these and each set was a maximal one. I think because of fatigue from back squatting. The only silver lining was the final set. I remembered something I read on clarence's new website on backsquatting where he said he starts the squat slow, but as he heads towards the hole he speeds up. I thought to try that out and i found I was going deeper than ever before, and form was quite good too, and the set was very easy. Now that could be because its some 20kg lighter than my max? But i was struggling with all the sets before that so i think it's a good cue to keep in mind in future.

(http://i.imgur.com/wtNYc.jpg)
^ depth with clarence's speed up instruction

RDL notes - just the usual progress on these, nothing new to report. In a few months I hope to be using 2*BW triples on these. That will be cool. My hamstrings need to become a lot stronger if my squatting ambitions are to be realised.

Chinups notes - I made a fatal mistake of recording myself from behind chinning without a shirt. I look like a huge massive blubberous fat whale. It's a complete JOKE to think i'll be lean at 80kg - try 75kg MAYBE if i'm lucky LOL.

I hate these long workouts. I need to figure out to fix that somehow.

And I haven't been logging my cardio but I did 1.6km today over 3 blocks. Morning one, and 500m preworkout warmups.

clarence's squat instruction - http://weightliftingfix.com/2012/atg-backsquat/
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 28, 2012, 06:12:42 am
I scoffed at the plank as something crossfitters do, but then read Dan John's Easy Strength and one of the first things he does with his athletes before starting any weight training is checking to see if they can hold a plank for 60 seconds. I actually tried to do one and i couldn't last 10 seconds. It might be cos im fatigued from yesterdays marathon session but dunno, maybe I have a weak c0re? On one hand that sucks to find out i'm so weak somewhere, and on other hand it's grea because I like finding out about a weakness  I can now address.

Just had an idea to try them with a belt on, see if that helps. Because i was failing from my hamstrings not so much my abs now that i think about it

Speaking of abs - I have observed that my abs no longer feel sore after doing a lot of chinups or leg raises. Whenever I did over 20 reps on these, i would always make my abs sore the next day - this doesn't happen anymore. The only other thing ive changed in training is doing front squats a lot. Is it possible my abs have gotten stronger FROM front squats? That might explain it perhaps.

I tried doing overhead squats today and was surprised to find I could kinda do them. I can go pretty deep too! So seems my flexibility and mobility has improved this last few months. Man i've come a long way from the inflexible, broken guy who first came here!

Now that my ankle is better, I can start using the ab wheel too.

I'm kicking myself for not getting a DEXA when I started my cut at around 86kg. If I had known i might only be 15% bf  at 80kg and not 10%, i would have done RFL to get down to 80kg quicker instead of spending months losing those 5kg. But I don't regret anything - i wouldn't have made all the training improvements i've made if I was doing RFL.

Anyway now that I know i'm still quite overweight, im gonna make the most of it. Everything I do using my bodyweight has a strength training effect. So running, jumping, pushups, chinups, ab roll outs, planks etc all make me stronger and better, so im gonna be doing them as part of my normal training. Hell even jogging will grow my calves while burning bodyfat so im gonna do that too.

Training
850m, 10mins,  treadmill fasted (AM)
850m, 10mins treadmill (PM)
1.5km walk and shooting hoops  
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 06:50:45 am
How is not being able to hold a 10s plank even possible? Never met anybody that can't do it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 28, 2012, 07:02:04 am
How is not being able to hold a 10s plank even possible? Never met anybody that can't do it.

Are you calling me fat? I challenge you to a plank off.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: acole14 on August 28, 2012, 07:24:21 am
Yeah I find that hard to believe especially if you can rep 70kgs for bench and back squat 110kgs+.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 28, 2012, 10:09:40 am
Ok i reviewed my time and it was 17s -slightly more than 10 but not significantly. This was a wobbly, struggling effort. It wasn't an effortless this-is-a-waste-of-my-time-i-could-do-this-all-day type of thing. I don't think I had good form either. Is it easy for the rest of you guys to do > 1 minute?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 28, 2012, 10:44:08 am
17s plank is pretty bad. my friend jimmy, when he gets new clients, one of the tests he uses is plank for max time. if you can hold for 30s or more, okay, if not, core work becomes an focus of the training. a one minute hold would not be challenging for me, it's more interesting to add variations (plank using rings, plank with one arm and one leg raised, etc.).

core stuff is easy to do, too, you don't even need to do it with the rest of your workout.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on August 28, 2012, 10:52:57 am
A lot depends on the plank type.

This plank should be easy:

(http://www.runireland.com/sites/www.runireland.com/files/front_plank.gif)


The plank that kellyb does at the end of this video is near impossible:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOvkwrzJTNA



Kellyb has some interesting things to say about abs in this article:

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/noglutes.html

Quote
Core Stability

You'll also want to test your basic core stability.

TEST #1

PERFORM A PLANK: Get into a pushup position, then rest your forearms on the floor. Your body should form a straight line from your head to your feet (don't let your hips sag). Hold the position as long as you can. You pass if you can hold it for two minutes or longer.

(http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/images/frontplank.jpg)

You fail if you collapse before the two-minute mark, or if your hips dip at any point within that time frame.

TEST #2

PERFORM A SIDE PLANK: Turn onto your side and, keeping your body in a straight line (just as in the plank described above), rest your weight on your forearm. Hold the position as long as you can, then repeat on the other side.

(http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/images/sidebridge.gif)

You pass if you can hold the position for 90 seconds or longer.

You fail if you collapse before the time is up, or if your hips dip at any point within that time frame.

Fortunately, if you fail at either of those tests you can remedy the problem with the same exercises you used in the tests.

For the next 3-4 weeks, perform both tests 3 times per week, doing 2-3 sets of 30-second holds for each, and working up from there.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 28, 2012, 10:55:42 am
i can do those ones with my arms all the way out, too.  ;D

i can also do standing ab wheel rollouts, so maybe i'm actually kind of strong in the core.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 28, 2012, 10:58:43 am
Yeah you definitely are some strong cored bastard!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on August 28, 2012, 11:16:06 am
Ok i reviewed my time and it was 17s -slightly more than 10 but not significantly. This was a wobbly, struggling effort. It wasn't an effortless this-is-a-waste-of-my-time-i-could-do-this-all-day type of thing. I don't think I had good form either. Is it easy for the rest of you guys to do > 1 minute?

I tried it and got over 2 minutes easy.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 28, 2012, 12:43:22 pm
Yeah it depends. You could also do a russian plank... both Bret Contreras and Pavel demonstrated that one.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 29, 2012, 01:11:15 am
Yeah it depends. You could also do a russian plank... both Bret Contreras and Pavel demonstrated that one.

Uh yea I don't have a kettle bell bro.

I tried it and got over 2 minutes easy.

Ok thanks, if you've never done one before and managed 2 mins easy, then i've got some work to do. Will work up to 2 minutes over the next few wks.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on August 29, 2012, 01:21:22 am
Yeah it depends. You could also do a russian plank... both Bret Contreras and Pavel demonstrated that one.

Uh yea I don't have a kettle bell bro.

I tried it and got over 2 minutes easy.

Ok thanks, if you've never done one before and managed 2 mins easy, then i've got some work to do. Will work up to 2 minutes over the next few wks.

I've done planks before but I havn't done them for a while. At rugby training in pre-season we'll always be doing stuff like planks and having competitions on who can hold them the longest and shit like that.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: creativelyric on August 29, 2012, 01:39:51 am
Ok i reviewed my time and it was 17s -slightly more than 10 but not significantly. This was a wobbly, struggling effort. It wasn't an effortless this-is-a-waste-of-my-time-i-could-do-this-all-day type of thing. I don't think I had good form either. Is it easy for the rest of you guys to do > 1 minute?

Yeah, you need to work on your core strength. I think this is something that can be progressed easily, though.

Myself, I honestly get bored just doing minute after minute of planks so I weight mine, lol. I go for around 20+ seconds that way.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 29, 2012, 01:41:44 am
Ok i reviewed my time and it was 17s -slightly more than 10 but not significantly. This was a wobbly, struggling effort. It wasn't an effortless this-is-a-waste-of-my-time-i-could-do-this-all-day type of thing. I don't think I had good form either. Is it easy for the rest of you guys to do > 1 minute?

Yeah, you need to work on your core strength. I think this is something that can be progressed easily, though.

Myself, I honestly get bored just doing minute after minute of planks so I weight mine, lol. I go for around 20+ seconds that way.

Haha, mine are weighted too brah. I'm on that GOMAD, all natural loading  :D This is actually awesome news for me cos i wanna improve my weaknesses so I can squat better.

Many thanks all.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on August 29, 2012, 01:44:32 am
Yeah it depends. You could also do a russian plank... both Bret Contreras and Pavel demonstrated that one.

Uh yea I don't have a kettle bell bro.

fucking LOOOOOOOOOOOOLL!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 29, 2012, 02:59:51 am
Yeah it depends. You could also do a russian plank... both Bret Contreras and Pavel demonstrated that one.

Uh yea I don't have a kettle bell bro.

fucking LOOOOOOOOOOOOLL!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TKktamzq4o

Grab a kettlebell and throw yourself in the water. See how long you can keep a plank there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w10d2
Post by: entropy on August 29, 2012, 05:58:56 am
Training

Session 1

BS 6x107.5, 5x102.6, 6x100
OHP 3x5x53.5
PP 4x65, 5x62.5

Wasn't happy with form or depth on back squats. I'm gonna repeat the weight until i've got good depth & form.

Session 2
CURLZ 3x8x42
Chins - 23 reps
CURLZ 15,15,12 pump work with the empty bar
abs - 2xplanks, 2x10 ab wheel rollouts from knee (new exercise)

total cardio - 2.1km on TM
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 29, 2012, 11:59:09 am
Ok I've been looking further into this plank thing, what I noticed was about 10seconds into the plank, my abs (obliques?) around the LEFT side start fatigueing, i start shaking from there. but my right side is solid and doesn't see what the fuss is. About 44 seconds in, and im shaking like a leaf from the left but the right is still rock solid. So wtf is going on? Have I got some sort of asymmetry? Or could it be my left side is more fatigued than the right side?

Has anyone experienced what im describing or come across it in someone else?  

My theory is that it's from the way I sit on a chair. I spent several years sedentary in an office job where I spent long hours sitting down, and i'm wondering if the way I sat favored one side of my core?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 29, 2012, 01:48:42 pm
What about carrying bags etc for example for school? Some people always carry on the same side all the time, right or left... it can develop some imbalances.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 30, 2012, 02:16:52 am
What about carrying bags etc for example for school? Some people always carry on the same side all the time, right or left... it can develop some imbalances.

That would be me then, I always carried a bag on my right side, which fits my imbalance. Damn.

Training
1.1km TM fasted (AM)
2x40s planks
400m TM (PM)
1000m TM (PM 2)

Cardio is working like magic. The fat around my waist is melting away quickly. But as yet it hasn't shown itself on the scale. If anything i've gained weight (83.1kg this morning). This is what I don't understand. Whenever i've done a fair bit of conditioning i've always seen a smaller waist but the scale doesn't reflect it. What's up with that? As far as dieting goes, this week has been a write-off. With my sister in town, have been eating with family a lot and it's been hard to remain compliant. We'll see what the damage is on monday.

Am thinking if I have to diet to 75kg, I don't want to slog it the slow way. Am tempted to start RFL next week and speed thru the 83-80kg stage. Pros - faster. Cons - can't expect to progress in training, might even regress.

New soreness - lower back. I can't remember the last time my lower back muscles were sore! I have to put it down to the ab wheel rollouts.

Total cardio: 2.5km
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on August 30, 2012, 05:25:06 am
Make sure when you do ab wheel rollouts to round the back a ton. If you arch it you're going to feel it in the lowerback.

Like this:

(http://www.shapeshiftermagazine.com/3/graphics/V1_I3_01-4-5.jpg)

http://www.shapeshiftermagazine.com/3/01.htm
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on August 30, 2012, 06:03:28 am
Thanks man, you were right, I was doing them wrong. I had a hard arch, which actually limited my ROM on the ex, i couldn't roll out very far. See diagram.

(http://i.imgur.com/gbYUR.jpg)

I switched from the bottom one to the top one, and now I can roll out further and feel it more in the abz.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w10d3
Post by: entropy on August 31, 2012, 02:13:02 am
(http://i.imgur.com/y7er8.png)

BW: 82.35kg/181.55lb

Am on track to end the month successfully with my bodyweight goals. The fat is literally melting off overnight, I lost 1/2" from my waist, and i'm close to an even 34". I think the next few kilos will have a dramatic visual impact. Thank cardio for that. It's targeting abdominal fat specifically.  I'm not even doing hardcore cardio, just several small 5-15 minute sessions at a leisurely pace. Later when I want to get close to 10% i'll probably need to do harder cardio. I'm ok with that, the lighter I get, the easier it becomes to recover from cardio too which is nice.

Training
1.07km Fasted TM (AM)
500m warmup (PM)

Session 1
BS 2x100, 1x110, 1x115 (maximal)
SQ 1x100, 1x105, 1x107.5, 1x112.5 (PR), 2x102.5, 1x105, 0x106
BS 1x100, 1x107.5, 3x107.5 (belt on), 2x2x112.5, 2x102.5

Well the Ab wheel fucked me up. My lower back was torched apparently even before I walked into the gym from those conservative ab wheels I did the other day. I had even kept sets and reps low (2x10) done from the knees intentionally because I knew the ab wheel has a disrupting effect (usually to my triceps lol) upon introduction, but apparently it can destroy lower back too lol. Anyway so the 115 single was hard, and I didn't go any heavier. I had planned on doing a single with 120kg but that wasn't gonna happen today.

Then it started raining. A lot. Flash flood. Flooded the gutters and all over ,my gym was covered in water in 30 seconds. My pendlays got slippery as hell on the wood, i was sliding around lol. Mopped it up as best I cud, and threw a carpet over it, and that allowed me to continue the workout.

Front squats weren't any easier on account of lower back doms. I managed a PR of 112.5kg though. Form was unacceptable but i muscled that sucker up somehow. Did a bunch of singles. Managed to strain my R groin again. It's not as bad as the first time just a bit tender.

Then I knew backsquats werent gonna happen either but I tried anyway. Thought to work around my lowerback soreness by using a belt. Kinda worked, cud do a few more reps. And here is something interesting....... when I used to put on a belt in the past, i'd instantly squat morning. Well not today. This is either from having a HBBS bar placement AND/OR recent remedial work in liue of uprightness. Or perhaps both. So the workout wasnt a complete waste of time - finding out I can now wear a belt and still stay upright is a nice discovery.

Session 2
BP 6x79.5 (PR!), 6x76, 6x73.5

I've got my BP unstuck finally!! PRs in consecutive workouts. Looks like ramped sets + wide grip assistance did the trick.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Plan for backsquat form improvement
Post by: entropy on August 31, 2012, 10:26:40 am
HBBS is good much better than LBBS because it keeps me upright out of the bottom. It's fixed the squatmorning problem but there is still work to be done.

Things to Try Next Week

From reading clarence I have a plan for what to do next. I have to do slow perhaps even paused, heavy backsquats out of the bottom. And ensure I never let my body go fwd out of the hole. It's as simple as that. That's how i'm going to fix my squat. I know kingfisher might not approve because athletic squats aren't done slowly - but my problem is STRENGTH - and specifically strength in the bottom position.

Once i've got good positions at the bottom and out, I can work on getting faster. Bouncing is easy and will come naturally once weakness are addressed and positions are good.

When core fatigue sets in, the belt can be used to do additional sets for further volume for leg strength.

Another big weakness I have which the belt wont help with, is upper back/chest dropping. That needs desperate remedial work. So have to do the rows and hang cleans. May just add an extra session JUST for that. Perhaps evenevery day I train.

For the (front) squat I need to drive my elbows up out of the hole. I did this on my last front squat set, and lol it worked - but my body found the position unfamiliar (it is used to upper back rounding) that I just stalled and then failed! (my first fail btw). I think part of the reason that happened is because I "forgot" to keep pushing with the legs at the same time, because I was concentrating so hard on the elbows? Maybe.

If I do the above and i've got good positions out of the bottom of the hole, and my core is strong, my upper back and chest are strong - then i'll be ready to push my squat (front & back) up aggressively. That should happen, at the latest when i've finished cutting and ready to gain some mass. Hopefully before that though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- an idea for a project
Post by: entropy on August 31, 2012, 01:20:04 pm
Squat Video Analysis Tool
I've been playing with two copies of my video
A- in reverse starting from from hole
B- normally starting from the hole

In a perfect squat - A and B would be indistinguishable. In mine, A and B are very different. To improve my squat I have to make B look closer to A. I'm stepping the video frame by frame to see where the breakdown takes place.

Ok i've gone full analytard - ive decided to make my next project an app which takes a squat video as input, and produces as an output, a frame by frame description of the angles and positions during eccentric and concentric.  The app will allow easy analyis of where positions differ from ideal, to suggest possible improvements and more importantly to measure them. You can't improve what you can't measure, and this is a first step in measuring. Yes i'm a geek but you gotta admit it sounds cool. Any suggestions for names?   squatysis?

8)  :uhhhfacepalm:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on August 31, 2012, 04:27:10 pm
"ideal" is kind of hard to define with any exercise. so much depends on body mechanics. your "ideal" squat will look different from mine, even (especially?) if you rendered us each as stick figures, because we're such different shapes.

still, it'd be cool to have something like dartfish but combined with moving versions of the still images vag creates of his squat. watch the stick figure move up and down, and watch the bar path. i'd pay $4.99 for that.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 01, 2012, 03:17:33 am
Training
2.04km Fasted TM (~25 mins)
core stuff (AM)
5 mins jump rope (PM) (new ex)
700m TM (PM)

Here is September already. Aiming to break under 80kg (~176lb) by 1st October. Only one scheduled off-diet day - my birthday, and even that I'm going to fast prior and still hit a caloric deficit over the day. The rest of the month is 100% strict. Not doing RFL, i've got a good thing going now, can train hard and make progress as well as seeing steady fat losses - so why change to something else which might not work as well. Stay the course.

Lifting goals for the month are to hit 120kg front squat for a single. 120x3 will come much later once  i'm maxing around 130kg, so that's still a while away. Work on core and upper body weaknesses.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 01, 2012, 03:33:25 am
"ideal" is kind of hard to define with any exercise. so much depends on body mechanics. your "ideal" squat will look different from mine, even (especially?) if you rendered us each as stick figures, because we're such different shapes.

Oh I agree in general it's impossible to define it. But i'm using ideal in the sense that pos is ~= reverse neg. It's where a video of the concentric played forwards, looks identical to the eccentric played backwards - with both starting from the hole. Lets look at some examples:

good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_jxTc2ITA8

pos very similar to reverse neg

and a bad one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebr4-iRfCJ0

I actually don't think this is a bad squat, looks ok, just see some chest dropping. but if you imagine the neg played in reverse starting from the hole, you can see it would be a lot different from the pos played forwards.

I'll try to make a video showing what I mean, it will be clearer that way.


Quote
still, it'd be cool to have something like dartfish but combined with moving versions of the still images vag creates of his squat. watch the stick figure move up and down, and watch the bar path. i'd pay $4.99 for that.
yep .. working on it :)

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Plan for backsquat form improvement
Post by: Kingfish on September 01, 2012, 02:48:31 pm
HBBS is good much better than LBBS because it keeps me upright out of the bottom. It's fixed the squatmorning problem but there is still work to be done.

Things to Try Next Week

From reading clarence I have a plan for what to do next. I have to do slow perhaps even paused, heavy backsquats out of the bottom. And ensure I never let my body go fwd out of the hole. It's as simple as that. That's how i'm going to fix my squat. I know kingfisher might not approve because athletic squats aren't done slowly - but my problem is STRENGTH - and specifically strength in the bottom position.

Once i've got good positions at the bottom and out, I can work on getting faster. Bouncing is easy and will come naturally once weakness are addressed and positions are good.

When core fatigue sets in, the belt can be used to do additional sets for further volume for leg strength.

Another big weakness I have which the belt wont help with, is upper back/chest dropping. That needs desperate remedial work. So have to do the rows and hang cleans. May just add an extra session JUST for that. Perhaps evenevery day I train.

For the (front) squat I need to drive my elbows up out of the hole. I did this on my last front squat set, and lol it worked - but my body found the position unfamiliar (it is used to upper back rounding) that I just stalled and then failed! (my first fail btw). I think part of the reason that happened is because I "forgot" to keep pushing with the legs at the same time, because I was concentrating so hard on the elbows? Maybe.

If I do the above and i've got good positions out of the bottom of the hole, and my core is strong, my upper back and chest are strong - then i'll be ready to push my squat (front & back) up aggressively. That should happen, at the latest when i've finished cutting and ready to gain some mass. Hopefully before that though.

form is the very first thing you should be focusing on.. so you have the right idea here.

do not pay attention to the weight on the bar. just make sure there is enough load there to push you down and give you a challenged concentric. 


Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Plan for backsquat form improvement
Post by: entropy on September 02, 2012, 02:52:44 am
form is the very first thing you should be focusing on.. so you have the right idea here.

do not pay attention to the weight on the bar. just make sure there is enough load there to push you down and give you a challenged concentric. 

Understood. Learnt that the hard way but i'm doing it the right way now.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 02, 2012, 02:55:07 am
Training
1km Fasted TM (AM)
5x30m warmups, 5x30 sprints (best time - 04:30 - PR - but I don't want to count it, see below) (PM)
5SVJ, 5 RVJs (shit couldn't jump.. may be all this cardio catching up to me now) (PM)
2 hours pickup ball (better than last week but still a little sluggish) (PM)

I didn't sprint on friday because of rain but I will sprint today instead before jumping and pickup basketball. It might be a good idea to group the 'athletic' stuff together in one day anyway, and makes fridays shorter and easier to recover from. Worth a try, as long as mondays workouts are still do-able, i much prefer it this way.

sprints felt real sluggish. I don't think i'll do them on sunday again. I perform better on fridays after squats, for some reason. I managed a 04:30 on my *last* sprint - but it's not reproducible cos a hot girl was jogging near me and my caveman instincts kicked in to go an extra gear lol, that wont happen since i normally sprint late at night when no one is at the oval.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC_t8MfGHMQ

advantage of running in the sun tho is you can record yourself. im looking at my form compared to bolt lol. trying to see how i can improve my form so it looks similar to his. i notice my upper body is very robotic. but I can't see bolt's arms moving any differently, although obviously he must be doing something subtly different cos we look a world apart in technique. the other thing i picked up is his ankle is very high on the recovery. mine is lower. so i'm gonna experiment next time with that.

Stuff to do Next Time I Sprint
high ankles on recovery leg
higher knees on striking leg
deliberately pump arms
try not be so upright, have to be leaning fwd more
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 03, 2012, 02:09:31 pm
In hindsight I didn't do myself any favours over the weekend. Have to remember my recovery is finite, esp when cutting. Delayed mondays workout. Will try it tomorrow instead. Have found my body to be too beaten up lately and I need to train smarter rather than harder. My knees, lower back, triceps, hamstrings all complain that i've not been kind to them.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- ideal squat?
Post by: entropy on September 03, 2012, 02:39:42 pm
My work on the squat video analysis is going well though. I've found some interesting things already about my squat. It turns out my negative and positive have some notable differences and similarities. I've already got the side-by-side video of positive and reverse negative - and it's quite instructive to compare them. I find my backsquat syncs well in both videos in timing, but not in specific positions. That is, my chest is caved on one side but perfectly straight in the other. That's visually apparent. My next step (which is hard) is to display a grid over both videos - so I can more easily inspect the differences in positions by scale. The last part will be the hardest, measuring angles. I'm not even sure i'll tackle that one, might let the user do it by providing an angle measuring tool. Dunno.

LBSS - you asked about the ideal squat. Well my program knows what my ideal squat looks like by analysing my squat video. See below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKJtuwR-jvY

This isn't my ACTUAL 112.5x1 PR video from friday. It's actually one that is constructed by the app. The next step would be to compare the positions (knees, barbell etc) in the actual video compared to the ideal one. The closer they are, the better the squat.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w11d1
Post by: entropy on September 04, 2012, 09:10:45 am
Training
BS 2x100
SQ 1x100, 1x105B, 1x90
BP 6x80.5 (PR), 6x76, 6x72.5

Squats sucked more than usual, i can't be bothered explaining. my next hopeful form improvement is Dan's sitting between the legs thing -
Quote
What people discover at this moment is a basic physiological fact: the legs are NOT stuck like stilts under the torso. Rather, the torso is slung between the legs. As you go down, leaning back with arms straight, you will discover one of the true keys of lifting: you squat between your legs. You do not fold and unfold like an accordion, you sink between your legs. Dont just sit and read this: do it! To develop the ability to squat snatch or squat clean hinges on this principle!

http://danjohn.net/2009/12/the-front-squat/

I think with my stupidly long legs, I need to space them out more (by taking a wider stance) - and then sitting btw my legs will bring me deeper and more upright. Yea we'll see lol.

Surprised how well my BP is progressing now. Normally whenever i've had to set a PR on BP it is a hard grindy effort which takes a lot of mental energy. But with the descending sets i'm finding the weight not heavy but light and I feel fresh and stronger. Lets see how far I can go, so far i'm sustaining 2kg/wk progress.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 04:50:54 am
I am considering drastic changes to my fat loss strategy. I remember back when I was at university, I ate pretty much what I wanted (a kilo block of cheese a week, tubs of icecream, litres of fullcream milk, eggs, bacon, loads of pasta and carbs etc) and I was lean and fit. I don't think diet was the main thing. Training was.

Back then I was playing competitive basketball and I think it was *that* which had the biggest influence on my bodycomp. When I wasn't playing matches I was playing pickup games fairly regularly. Even this year when I started playing basketball matches, I found myself getting leaner and fitter, esp as the season went on. There is something about playing basketball which turns on a fatloss switch in my body. I dunno if i'll start playing again but I want to re-create that training effect.

One reason not to start playing basketball again is it gets in the way of weights training. If i was eating more I could probably do everything - including basketball, conditioning intervals, weights and even swimming. But the whole caloric deficit is a recovery deficit is a bitch. Sigh.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on September 05, 2012, 05:18:27 am
There is no magic recomp switch turned on by any sport.
Playing competitive basketball is 1,5 hours of HIT. Some tables indicate that caloric expenditure is about 650kcals per hour.
So ~1000kcals burned every time you play, while 1kg of fat is ~7000kcals, that's all there is to it!  :)
Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 05:22:49 am
There is also EPOC (post exercise burn). The studies say the benefits of HIIT peaks at about a month. But in that month it's possible you achieve significant changes to bodycomp. I think that's what basketball brings to the table

I also don't believe cal in vs cal out is the be all and end all of body composition. Different ways of training have different results on composition imho. I believe in cal in vs cal out for weight loss but only as a simple guideline. There is more to it than that though

The reason I think basketball works so well is because its a good mix of aerobic and HIIT .. it involves
b) gives the benefits of HIIT
c) gives benefits of aerobic training

and together this works well to give great fat loss. The calories burnt during exercise aren't the whole picture, far from it, and they certainly don't consitute the entire "calories out" picture. For that you have to look at EPOC too.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on September 05, 2012, 05:58:13 am
Agreed, not every kcal burn is the same. Kcal in vs kcal out is definitely not the end of it.
But for someone with a relatively clean diet and a regular training schedule, like yourself, the "initial conditions" of the problem are set, the degrees of freedom are much less. In that case, imho kcal in vs kcal out covers 80% of the body composition plan if not more.
About basketball and fat loss, i do agree there is a thing too, a feeling that there is a switch as you described. I just think it is mental. You burn a ton of kcals without even trying for it, you are out there practicing your beloved sport. And then one day you look at the mirror and say damn, im lean. To achieve the same you would have to walk endless boring hours on the treadmill, while spending those hours deliberately for the specific fat loss purpose. That wears you out and you have it on your mind too, you are on a fat loss plan, this is what is supposed to happen, there are expectations, targets etc. Basketball is about fun though, so the fat loss effect is collateral, that's why it's logged in our minds as a surprise, a little bit of magic... This whole paragraph is a totally personal point of view on it though!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 06:15:20 am
Those are good points for why basketball works psychologically. I just don't think I enjoy basketball as much as I used to! I was pretty miserable playing in my team so it wasn't fun by any means, was full of disappointment and stuff. But one thing which you are more likely to do in a competitive game is go balls out, because someone is trying to defeat you. So you work harder, and push to a higher intensity. You aren't going to do that on a treadmill I agree. I just think the combination of HIIT and aerobic training in a basketball game has worked very well for me in the past to get me lean. And it worked regardless of my diet, just like magic. I'm not eating much these days but i'm still fat. I've eaten a lot more food and been leaner becos of training. Yes you can say that's because training manipulated the cal out part but it's more than the number of calories surely, esp when those calories aren't much compared to my then daily intake (woulda been easily 4k+)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on September 05, 2012, 06:19:56 am
I competely agree with Vag.  It's all mental.

There isn't any kind of secret to basketball.  Cmon, listen to yourself.  Sounds like possibly your trying to give yourself a reason to start doing something you love more, even though it gets in your way of your strength training.  

In the end, the vast majority of your weight loss goals will come from calories in vs calories out, while your macronutrient ratios play a big part if you're going for fat loss/muscle maintenence, instead of just getting lighter.

Back in college, you were younger and had a faster metabolism probably.  I'm only 23 and I get fatter now if I eat whatever I want, but when I was 18/19, I ate even more than I do now and I didn't gain a single pound.  It's certainly not cause I was playing more basketball, cause my activity level is about the same.

I'm not saying don't play basketball.  I'm just saying in my opinion, you're getting kind of ridiculous saying that basketball is some sort of magic fat loss activity.  Burning 100 calories from basketball is the same as burning 100 calories from jacking off.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 05, 2012, 07:08:50 am
I was 67 kg up until 21 years old (when I was actually 64 kg) and now I'm at 83-84. I used to eat much worse back then.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w11d2
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 10:17:10 am
Training
BS 2x110, 3x108.5, 5x105, 4x102.5, 4x100
OHP 4x55, 2x5x54.5, 4x54.5
PP 2x67.5 (PR), 4x65
CURLZ 3x8x43.5 (PR)
Chins ~ 21 reps (dead hangs)
ab rollouts 3x10

Next backsquat aim for 6x108.5. Form was ok but i was piss weak so couldn't get thru the reps as I would have liked. They were are all pretty much RM sets today.

OHP - im ok with these, i did them with a pause. Slowly going to build up to 3x5x60 with a pause, and then i'll switch to descending sets like my other lifts.

PP for some reason I thought i'd be able to add 2.5-5kg to this lift easily but it's not that easy at all. I'm going to reset a little and then take smaller jumps.

Rollouts, i did the first two sets by propping my toes under a sofa, which allowed me to roll out to a rock bottom full extended position. Then i tried it without the sofa and i lost most of my ROM. LOL. i'm still doign these from the knees. hopefully I can transition to from toes soon though, although I couldn't even do one rep that way when I tried. In the past when I used the ab wheel frequently i was doing full rollouts from standing position and I weighed over 100kg back then too. So where has all that strength gone?? may be my form was shit though, i never taped them.

Also I have a theory why my bench has suddenly started moving up. Perhaps from adding arm work (curls) and ohp. By adding these two things, ive increased upper body strength. my shoulders were always the strongest part of my upper body (I could get ~96kg close grip bp off my chest easily and snappily only to get stuck halfway becos of weak triceps). And by adding back the overhead work, shoulders have gotten stronger, which helps with the bench. Maybe the wide grip bench has helped as well out of the bottom of the bench press. Either way, i'll take it. I wont change anything, keep PP, BP, etc the same and ets see how far I can ride it out.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- fat loss changes
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 11:12:54 am
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dtaWqzV6d7M/TB45nbhN4II/AAAAAAAAAtY/MyuICqOC7ZA/s1600/DSC04689stubb.jpg)

See the homeboy above, that V - I had that visible earlier this year when I was playing basketball despite weighing about 4-5kg more. That means i've lost 4kg of bodyweight and since i'm stronger and more muscular now than then, it has been 4-5kg of bodyfat.

How do you guys explain that? Cal in vs Cal out sermons can't explain it to me. I'm willing to accept I was burning more calories then than now. But i also know i was eating more then than now. So how does that affect balance? Now think about this for a second. I've maintained a caloric deficit to lose 4-5kg of bodyfat, so im definitely in a deficit, but yet that V above, yea I dont have it right now!!

I WONT cut more calories from my diet. I'm practically eating 2 square meals, 2000-2700 calories a day. I wont drop below 2000 and if you tell me to cut more than that. I REFUSE TO CUT ANY MORE CALORIES. My metabolism will get fucked up if I have a bigger deficit from diet than I already have and that's no way to live.

But I dont need to cut any mroe calories because there are other ways to burn bodyfat than thru diet. Aerobic steady state and HIIT will do that very well. I know that from experience.

I think I have it figured out tho. It's the mix of aerobic and hiit that I need to add. And sensibly, not 10+km of cardio a week like I did last week. No it has to be a reasonable amount. And it has to be both aerobic and hiit. I cant' and wont go back to playing basketball (cos then i cant train properly), so i'll have to be really smart about this.

tentative plan
daily 500m-600m fasted TM (~5-10mins, weekly progression: add 0.1km/hr and 50m)
1x a week HIIT (tabata mountain bike),  steady state cardio (30-60 mins riding mountain bike)
3x a week - ~3mins/session - TM warmups  - before weights, stick to about 3 minutes, not too high intensity, just get warm and blood flowing.
1x week pickup basketball (max of 3 games, and no more than 2 games back to back).


Playing pickup, I wont/cant play 2-3 hours straight like i did sunday because then training gets fucked up.

But basically i'm going to keep a bit of daily aerobic work, nice and gentle, pure fat loss, little impact on lifting. And slowly ramp it up over time. Then ride a bike trying to simulate my magic fat loss from basketball (mix of HIIT and aerobic) by doing tabata sprints and then just riding casually for 30-60mins.

On off days, i might go for a long walk but not a treadmill and maybe shoot hoops. dunno maybe.

I don't want to do much running/jogging cos it fucks up my knees/ankles and tires out my calves/hamstrings/quads and makes for shitty squat sessions.  So i'm going to try riding a bike instead. Hopefully that will give the conditioning without the side-effects i just mentioned. It also gives me a chance to go outdoors since i have a nice bike trail 5 minutes near my place.

 I want a nice balance of aerobic (2x a week) and HIIT (1x a week). Just what I had when I played basketball earlier in the year and saw good spot reduction of belly fat.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- new program
Post by: entropy on September 05, 2012, 03:24:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/epITU.png)

Conditioning will be on a mountain bike. I'm thinking tabata sprints 3 mins and 30-60mins w/o sprinting. For variety or in bad weather, once a month i'll play basketball with my old team.

Upper body assistance will be an exercise from chinups, banded chinups, curls, widegrip bench press, push presses, cable curls, hang cleans or rows.

I'm doing descending sets for backsquats and bench press btw.

When I feel like it, I can take Tue or Sat completely off.

Time to find those abs, great form, become stronger and powerful,  jump higher and run fast.

:headbang:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- fat loss changes
Post by: D4 on September 05, 2012, 08:41:09 pm
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dtaWqzV6d7M/TB45nbhN4II/AAAAAAAAAtY/MyuICqOC7ZA/s1600/DSC04689stubb.jpg)

See the homeboy above, that V - I had that visible earlier this year when I was playing basketball despite weighing about 4-5kg more. That means i've lost 4kg of bodyweight and since i'm stronger and more muscular now than then, it has been 4-5kg of bodyfat.

How do you guys explain that? Cal in vs Cal out sermons can't explain it to me. I'm willing to accept I was burning more calories then than now. But i also know i was eating more then than now. So how does that affect balance? Now think about this for a second. I've maintained a caloric deficit to lose 4-5kg of bodyfat, so im definitely in a deficit, but yet that V above, yea I dont have it right now!!

I WONT cut more calories from my diet. I'm practically eating 2 square meals, 2000-2700 calories a day. I wont drop below 2000 and if you tell me to cut more than that. I REFUSE TO CUT ANY MORE CALORIES. My metabolism will get fucked up if I have a bigger deficit from diet than I already have and that's no way to live.

But I dont need to cut any mroe calories because there are other ways to burn bodyfat than thru diet. Aerobic steady state and HIIT will do that very well. I know that from experience.

I think I have it figured out tho. It's the mix of aerobic and hiit that I need to add. And sensibly, not 10+km of cardio a week like I did last week. No it has to be a reasonable amount. And it has to be both aerobic and hiit. I cant' and wont go back to playing basketball (cos then i cant train properly), so i'll have to be really smart about this.

tentative plan
daily 500m-600m fasted TM (~5-10mins, weekly progression: add 0.1km/hr and 50m)
1x a week HIIT (tabata mountain bike),  steady state cardio (30-60 mins riding mountain bike)
3x a week - ~3mins/session - TM warmups  - before weights, stick to about 3 minutes, not too high intensity, just get warm and blood flowing.
1x week pickup basketball (max of 3 games, and no more than 2 games back to back).


Playing pickup, I wont/cant play 2-3 hours straight like i did sunday because then training gets fucked up.

But basically i'm going to keep a bit of daily aerobic work, nice and gentle, pure fat loss, little impact on lifting. And slowly ramp it up over time. Then ride a bike trying to simulate my magic fat loss from basketball (mix of HIIT and aerobic) by doing tabata sprints and then just riding casually for 30-60mins.

On off days, i might go for a long walk but not a treadmill and maybe shoot hoops. dunno maybe.

I don't want to do much running/jogging cos it fucks up my knees/ankles and tires out my calves/hamstrings/quads and makes for shitty squat sessions.  So i'm going to try riding a bike instead. Hopefully that will give the conditioning without the side-effects i just mentioned. It also gives me a chance to go outdoors since i have a nice bike trail 5 minutes near my place.

 I want a nice balance of aerobic (2x a week) and HIIT (1x a week). Just what I had when I played basketball earlier in the year and saw good spot reduction of belly fat.

-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved. 
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 06, 2012, 12:07:48 am
Quote
-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved.  
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.

lol aren't you pushing the calories-in dogma a little too far dude? I agree its the main thing if you eat like crap it probably doesn't matter what you do training wise, you'll still stay fat. but that's not my situation, im eating 95% clean and under maintenance, so i've got that in check. I'm not someone spending 10 minutes on the treadmill and then going to have double whoppers "for recovery" post workout!

basically my argument is this, whenever i've played basketball seriously, i'd be unwittingly doing HIIT and aerobic training and this burns bodyfat. Period. And it does this regardless of whether or not i'm in a caloric surplus or deficit or maintenance or whatever. That's my experience. When I was in university i was on a high caloric intake and yet i was very lean because of basketball. And recently, earlier this year when I played basketball (as compared to not doing any HIIT or aerobic exercise) - i burnt bodyfat - bellyfat to be specific even though my caloric intake was slightly surplus to maintenance.

But now i'm on a caloric deficit while not playing basketball i've lost 4-5kg of bodyweight and yet I have more bellyfat than I did when i weighed more and wasn't cutting but was playing basketball. 'm not generalising to everyone out there, just describing my personal experience.

And btw there is spot reduction but not in the way you are thinking of. For example if you take someone very obese, and you put them on a low carb diet and have them doing cardio, they'll take off belly fat preferentially according to the science. Or even if you take some one obese who is sedentary, the experts say first goes the visceral bodyfat and then the subcutaneous. Is that spot reduction in the sense of someone doing high rep bench press to burn man boobs? Not quite the same thing

But if you're going to talk about facts you have to admit that aerobic and HIIT are good at burning fat and introducing them to someone who doesn't do them will have a fat loss effect (provided diet is in check which it is for me but i'm not getting the results i want with just diet alone)

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: D4 on September 06, 2012, 03:24:41 am
Quote
-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved. 
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.

lol aren't you pushing the calories-in dogma a little too far dude? I agree its the main thing if you eat like crap it probably doesn't matter what you do training wise, you'll still stay fat. but that's not my situation, im eating 95% clean and under maintenance, so i've got that in check. I'm not someone spending 10 minutes on the treadmill and then going to have double whoppers "for recovery" post workout!

basically my argument is this, whenever i've played basketball seriously, i'd be unwittingly doing HIIT and aerobic training and this burns bodyfat. Period. And it does this regardless of whether or not i'm in a caloric surplus or deficit or maintenance or whatever. That's my experience. When I was in university i was on a high caloric intake and yet i was very lean because of basketball. And recently, earlier this year when I played basketball (as compared to not doing any HIIT or aerobic exercise) - i burnt bodyfat - bellyfat to be specific even though my caloric intake was slightly surplus to maintenance.

But now i'm on a caloric deficit while not playing basketball i've lost 4-5kg of bodyweight and yet I have more bellyfat than I did when i weighed more and wasn't cutting but was playing basketball. 'm not generalising to everyone out there, just describing my personal experience.

And btw there is spot reduction but not in the way you are thinking of. For example if you take someone very obese, and you put them on a low carb diet and have them doing cardio, they'll take off belly fat preferentially according to the science. Or even if you take some one obese who is sedentary, the experts say first goes the visceral bodyfat and then the subcutaneous. Is that spot reduction in the sense of someone doing high rep bench press to burn man boobs? Not quite the same thing

But if you're going to talk about facts you have to admit that aerobic and HIIT are good at burning fat and introducing them to someone who doesn't do them will have a fat loss effect (provided diet is in check which it is for me but i'm not getting the results i want with just diet alone)



Where the hell in that quote of my post am I further pushing the calorie in vs out concept?

All I'm saying is, burning 100 calories from jacking off = burning 100 calories from HIT/basketball/cardio/whatever...  There can be a myriad of reasons to explain your argument, but to think basketball has had magical effects on your fat loss efforts is wrong.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on September 06, 2012, 03:41:47 am
Just play basketball and keep eating relatively clean. Do whatever your body responds well to. If that's playing basketball than play basketball. As long as you eat pretty clean and exercise than you'll lose fat without having to worry about excessive dieting. Plus eating more helps for playing sport and gyming.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 06, 2012, 03:42:07 am
Where the hell in that quote of my post am I further pushing the calorie in vs out concept?

All I'm saying is, burning 100 calories from jacking off = burning 100 calories from HIT/basketball/cardio/whatever...  There can be a myriad of reasons to explain your argument, but to think basketball has had magical effects on your fat loss efforts is wrong.

lol i think you've made your point clearly. but what intensity are we talking? is it balls out HIIT jacking off? cos that might burn a bit more calories. Or long duration steady state - smaller burn but for a longer period. But why do you have to choose one or the other, what if you do both? Then you get the benefits of HIIT and the benefits of steady state.   :P

im actually hoping i can get the same or better fat loss effect of basketbell by not not playing basketball. i'll use sprints on a bicycle for the HIIT benefit and longer rides for the aerobic benefit. I'm hoping this will give the fat loss without the fatigue of actually playing basketball

Just play basketball and keep eating relatively clean. Do whatever your body responds well to. If that's playing basketball than play basketball. As long as you eat pretty clean and exercise than you'll lose fat without having to worry about excessive dieting. Plus eating more helps for playing sport and gyming.

This. I will eat the same as usual, but I'll just more fat loss out of it by trainer better.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w11d3
Post by: entropy on September 07, 2012, 12:10:52 pm
Training
BS 2x100, 1x110, 3x108.5
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x102.5, 0x102.5, 1x100, 1x100 (Belt on), 1x100, 0x100, 6x1x90, 2x90, 3x90, 2x90
BP 5x81.5, 6x75, 6x72.5 (close grip), 5x72.5 (wide grip)

Long fucking workout. Took 3 hours to do all that squatting. The 90s were paused. I slowed everything down so I could really nail down form. Here is what I have learnt about good form

- strong unrack, like a powerclean rack
- pull jaw apart and hold it there, keeps my chest tight (also squeezing the life out of the bar helps for that too but i tend to forget this while in the zone)
- break at knees
- sit between legs
- make sure hips are constantly loaded in tension under the bar (this avoids the tendency to lean fwd)
- hold knees stable upon sitting
- push chest upwards by driving against the floor while simultaneously
- DRIVE TRAPS BACK out of the hole

and if i go thru that encyclopedia of details i have something resembling a good squat. Now try remembering all of it while having a heavy bar on your shoulders lol. I bet it's not this hard for *other* people, i'm just not built for this shit but no matter, i'll persevere

today my quads are pumped for a change, the paused sets really help there

oh yea and in other news i broke under 180lb today, my morning bw was 179.9lb .. yay for me. Still a big fat mess though.

Fuck this shit man, its past midnight and i have yet to bench brb

damn I didn't get a PR on the bench. I probably would have on another day). No matter, i'll get it on monday!

Taking the rest of the wkend off so im nice and fresh for next week when I start my new program.

I had 110g carb, 50g fat, 180g pro today. How many calories is that? 1760? hmm. interesting.

laters
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 08, 2012, 05:49:52 am
After yesterdays front squats high vol session here is what is sore -
hamstrings (lol), glutes, and chest, and adductors. Why not quads? WHY?

re-instated daily cardio, going to keep it low intensity and duration today, 600m.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 08, 2012, 09:22:55 am
Maybe you stay a ton on your heels or something?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 08, 2012, 11:16:00 am
Maybe you stay a ton on your heels or something?

what do you mean, while squatting? yeah but you're supposed to lol. also i just noticed im sore around my hips too and bizarrely lats. front squats man, they're some exercise.



Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 08, 2012, 12:54:05 pm
I know you're supposed to, but I kinda tend to go a bit towards the toes when I go down (or at least I was when I was squatting high bar) and that loads your quads quite a bit more in my experience because it moves the center of gravity a bit forward as well so the blunt of the load is being taken care of by the quads.

Obviously if the knees are going forward then you'll lose hamstring tension and load the quads more as well.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 08, 2012, 01:05:57 pm
Nah man I use oly shoes and never come up on my toes.

Have you ever tried putting a block under your TOES (not heel). Wonder what will do for quad activ
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 08, 2012, 01:56:50 pm
Nah man I use oly shoes and never come up on my toes.

Have you ever tried putting a block under your TOES (not heel). Wonder what will do for quad activ

I've seen people deadlift like that.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 09, 2012, 03:07:32 am
I just had a thought. If i am 19+% right now and don't know it, then I have ~10kg of fat left to lose (!). Shall I take the $100 DEXA and rule it out? I can kinda see my upper 2 abs if i flex them any time of the day now. But only faintly and to the side. If I really do have 10kg to lose i'd use RFL and drop 5kg quickly.

(http://i.imgur.com/7MOUC.png)

Hmm.

I think i'll stick to the plan. Get down to 80kg. Or drop under it and if i am 15% at that point then i'll know I have another 5kg to lose to get to 10%. If I get to 80kg and i'm still well over 15%, i'll probably do RFL for a month to get in 12-15% range.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 09, 2012, 03:32:38 am


  Grats on getting under 180 man, keep up the good work !@!  I wouldnt worry about dexa right now, use the scale and the mirror.  Measure your WAIST regularly, that will give you good feedback for a long period of time.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- 12 week summary
Post by: entropy on September 09, 2012, 11:58:38 pm


  Grats on getting under 180 man, keep up the good work !@!  I wouldnt worry about dexa right now, use the scale and the mirror.  Measure your WAIST regularly, that will give you good feedback for a long period of time.

Thanks lance. It didn't stick under 180 though but hopefully I will break it and stay under consistently. My waist is 34" at the navel, 35" at the widest about an 1.5" below there. So 34-35" - which is consistently lower than when I started cutting. I am guessing i'll need to get that down to 30-31" to be 10%? So have a while to go yet.

When I started this 12 week phase, I weighed around 86kg was lowbar backsquatting (w/o belt) 100x8, 120x2 (to just parallel). I was also recovering from my ankle injury and starting to front squat (2x3x75 was my first workout). RDL has gone from 3x100 to 3x125.

Since then i've healed from ankle injury, quit basketball, dropped bw to below 83kg while taking my front squat up to 1x112.5kg (and 105x3 was my last triple). My lowest BW was obviously the 179.xlb. My bench press has finally made progress and I am at 6x80.5 and going for 6x81.5 today. My vertical went up to over 30" for the first time which i'm not certain is a result of losing bodyweight or from increased leg strength. Speaking of leg strength, I am going to test my powerclean to see where it is now after not having trained it.

Oh and I also switched to high bar recently, so as far as I am concerned every improvement in HBBS is a PR because it's a different lift. For the record I squatted a PR of 1x117.5 high bar.

I haven't made the greatest gains admittedly but I have been working on fixing form, which is more important at this stage than PRs. Lets see what the next 12 weeks bring. Hopefully finish cutting.

But looking at my results I am disappointed. I have been fucking around really, I should have lost more weight. I am going to fix that in the next phase.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- phase ripped abz - w1d1
Post by: entropy on September 10, 2012, 01:19:39 am
New Program : Phase Ripped Abz

Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/epITU.png)

Conditioning will be on a mountain bike. I'm thinking tabata sprints 3 mins and 30-60mins w/o sprinting. For variety or in bad weather, once a month i'll play basketball with my old team.

Upper body assistance will be an exercise from chinups, banded chinups, curls, widegrip bench press, push presses, cable curls, cleans or rows.

I'm doing descending sets for backsquats and bench press btw.

When I feel like it, I can take Tue or Sat completely off.

Time to find those abs, great form, become stronger and powerful,  jump higher and run fast.

:headbang:

Body Comp Goal

I'm going for a hard and fast 5lb loss over 3 weeks to start off this phase. No excuses.

(http://i.imgur.com/CW3Lo.png)

Target is set at 178 on the morning of October 1st.

No more fucking around.

Training
650m Fasted TM (AM)
BP 5x81.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 3x5x72.5 (wide grip, PR)
BS 2x100, 1x115, 1x120 (high, bad form, dont count it)
FS 3x100, 4x92.5, 4x90, 4x87.5
PC 2x60, 1x65 (ok form), 3x70F (I wasn't pulling these high enough to rack. Not sure why but I did get 1x70 yesterday on my first attempt at PCs in like 2 years but it wasn't happening today. May stick to only trying these on Sundays.)
PCDLs 2x3x90 (2nd set was good)
RDL 3x127.5 (PR but bad set, rounded LB, i guess i went too long btw RDL workouts), 10x102.5 (PR, good form)

BW: 83kg (182.98lb)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on September 10, 2012, 02:33:17 am
graphs: check
charts: check
multi-colored stuff: check

sick.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d2 (off)
Post by: entropy on September 11, 2012, 05:36:33 am
Ha tnx adarqui :)

650m Fasted TM (AM)

damn im hungry. I find myself dreaming about and lusting for certain foods.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d3
Post by: entropy on September 12, 2012, 07:53:28 am
Training
650m FTM  (AM)

W1
300m  TM (warmup)
BS 4x108.5 (PR), 4x103.5, 4x100
OHP 4x55, 2x5x55

W2
300m TM (warmup)
CURLZ 8x45 (PR), 8x40, 8x35, 8x30
Chins 3x3x90 (+5kg; PR), 2x4xBW

W3
200m warmup jog
5 min intervals (60m)
football pitch sprint x1
200m jog

Woke up with residual lower back soreness. Must be from the pulling.

Right knee not happy, finding even warmups troubling. Changed video to front angle, saw L knee stays out of the bottom, R comes in though. Not sure how to fix it, messed around with turning right foot out and in. Oh and squatting was hard work today, even warmups felt heavy. Haven't been sleeping well lately.

Lost the last rep of OHP first set in front, made sure to bring the bar closer on 2nd and 3rd, and it made it possible to get 5s.

I avoided my usual tendency to try to make up for bad workouts by doing more sets.

Not doing sets across on curls. They were just becoming half curls anyway. Going to do one heavy top set, and then stricter following sets, this way I get full range benefits while at the same time pushing up curl strength as well.

Chinups have gone no where, in fact they've regressed. For some reason I had thought losing BW and doing BW chins would result in more reps - but it never happened. If anything reps stayed the same at best or gone down. So i've decided to add weight. If reps stay the same, fine, at least i'll be adding weight.

First conditioning session went well. I kept it short, HIIT + bit of aerobic. Can't wait to melt this remaining fat off!  :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d4 (off)
Post by: entropy on September 13, 2012, 01:50:11 am
I feel great the day after my first conditioning session. Was a bit afraid I would have shaky knees and sore hams/quads but instead I feel fresh and rejuvenated. It seems I shied away from conditioning because of my experience with longer duration aerobic work (~30mins) and longer HIIT (40 minute bball games) - but now I believe i've got a good compromise which is easier to recover from. If my body can handle it, I might add a 2nd conditioning session. Double the bodyfat loss, pretty please.

Training
650m FTM (AM)
2km walk (PM)

If i'll be lean (? 10%) at ~75kg(165lb) - I don't think I'll get there on this cutting phase. Probably will take a diet break after ? 15% - for about 2 wks, reset my hormones and shit back to normal before resuming the cut from ~15% to 10%. If my calculations are right (ha) - i'll be ~15% at around 79.5kg (175lb). So i'll keep cutting to 175 at which point I should be legit ? 15%.

Incidentally my estimates are based on the following calculations that I am at 19% right now

(http://i.imgur.com/dU8ct.png)

So glad I added some carbs (wheat) into my diet about a month ago. I started eating 2 slices of wholemeal toast for breakfast. And 2 roti for dinner. Game changer.  Makes life easier, takes away hunger andI have better energy thru the day and best of all, fat loss is unaffected. The extra fibre and nutrients are nice too.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on September 14, 2012, 04:52:24 am
Are you really at 19% currently after already cutting down to 83? Seems a bit too much , what was your strting point?
Also you are training very often AND playing competitive basketball, why are you at 20%??? I would only guess there is a  terrible diet obsession, like overconsuming sweets or alcohol or something.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 14, 2012, 04:57:48 am
I would even guess i'm over 20% to be honest. I'm just not a very muscular person. Also I don't play basketball anymore, i quit basketball about 6 weeks ago? I play pickup once or twice a month and that's it! I only recently added back conditioning though, so i'm hoping to lose about 2" from my waist in about 4-5 weeks just from adding back aerobic and hiit into my training.

I'm pretty good at dieting though, these days i seldom eat out (can't remember the last time i did, must be about 3 months ago), never get takeaway food either. I have a 100% healthy breakfast every day without fail. And i am 85-95% good with my dinner. I don't snack on junk (if i allow myself to eat crisps/chips, chocolate etc i'll binge so i just avoid it completely). im a good boy at eating fruit and veg :D it's been working too, i've cut down from 86kg to 83kg while increasing my lifts so i'm not burning lean mass either. I think realistically i will be finished cutting at around 75kg. But if i get to 75 and i'm not under 10%, i might neeed to  cut even lower as 74-73, I don't know, will just have to see when I get there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on September 14, 2012, 05:07:17 am
Well , i am not a diet expert but there is a missing link here. What was your bodyfat percentage before the cut? And why was it that high?
BTW, i don't mean to insult you or call you fat or something. I am not muscular either and i have a very hard time going under 15% or a 35'' waist. I was jsut very surprised to see you at 20% in the middle of what looks like a well planned and sucessful cut.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 14, 2012, 05:21:07 am
Well , i am not a diet expert but there is a missing link here. What was your bodyfat percentage before the cut?
BTW, i don't mean to insult you or call you fat or something. I am not muscular either and i have a very hard time going under 15% or a 35'' waist. I was jsut very surprised to see you at 20% in the middle of what looks like a well planned and sucessful cut.

If we work backwards, my bodyfat at 86-87kg would have been around 22%. I thought it was over 20%, so i wasn't too much off. I never got a DEXA though. If I had, it might have showed I was maybe 24-25%. I don't know.

Quote
And why was it that high? BTW, i don't mean to insult you or call you fat or something. I am not muscular either and i have a very hard time going under 15% or a 35'' waist. I was jsut very surprised to see you at 20% in the middle of what looks like a well planned and sucessful cut.

No offense taken. Why it was that high. Good question! I got measured twice with a 7point caliper test as follows:

+ 100kg BW - bodyfat 25% (fat mass of 25kg, lean mass of 75kg).
+ Charts and BMI measurements for my height and bodyweight also suggested the same thing.

So that means at 85kg, i should have been 12% bodyfat.

I dieted down to 85kg and surprisingly no abs in sight!! So i kept dieting. And now at around 82.5kg and i'm still not even close to 15%. Which means my previous bodyfat measurements were way off. I wasn't 25% i was probably 35% and up.

This is the danger of not getting down to a low initial bodyfat when training. Because you don't know how fat you really are and estimates are hard to get right. It's when you get down to seeing abs that you have a realistic idea of what your lean mass is, and from there you have a good idea of how gains in bodyweight are partioned btw fat and muscle. I never got down to 10%. So where I was starting my bulks (at a supposedly 85kg ~ 15% estimated) - i should actually have been ENDING my bulks somewhere 5kg lower. This is bad news for p-ratio which means gains are mostly fat. Big mistake. People tell you that if you are over 6 foot tall you should weigh such 200-220. And if you listen to them you end up very overweight. I listened to them.

If only I had dropped $300-500 on a DEXA it would have been a sound investment. If there is one thing i could change about my training, it is not knowing my initial bodyfat. So if anyone asks me - i'll tell them most important thing is to know where your bodyfat is, esp if they are sedentary mature adults who haven't remained athletic.

My waist at the mo is quite close to 34" now, and I think if i came off creatine, i'd lose an inch and a half just from that water retention. But that's neither here nor there.

So to answer your question, the reason I was so fat initially. I just didn't know exactly how fat I was. It's not easy to tell the difference between 24% and 20%. Nor from 20% and 17%. In fact above 15% it's not easy to pin down where you are. You only find out how deep the rabbit hole goes when you start cutting and seeing where you are at. If only I had got a DEXA at some stage, I would have known I was way off with my bodyfat estimates. But because I used tables, and caliper measurements, I never came close to finding a true estimate.

The other thing is vag, I say i might be over 20% because that's being conservative. But i might even be as low as 17%, even though I don't believe that to be true. I can't know for sure either way until i've finished cutting to 15%. And then working backwards I will be able to tell you what bodyfat I was when I weighed 83kg. But right now, there is an uncertainty due to the lack of precision in visual estimating bodyfat above 15%.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d5
Post by: entropy on September 14, 2012, 05:23:40 am
Training
700m FTM (4.3 kph av, 9mins, preworkout stimulants)

W1
300m TM warmup (7kph av)
FS 1x100, 2x108.5 (PR!), 1x115 (PR!), 1x107.5, 1x106, 1x105, 5x90(PR!)
BP 5x81.5, 3x80, 6x76, 7x72.5

Good workout. I have learnt that a good workout wont get any better by doing more worksets than needed, it can only get worse. Conversely a bad workout wont get better by doing more worksets than that demanded. I usually grind myself into dust doing extra work but i'm curbing that instinct. Progress is progress, and doing more work than necessary can only detract not enhance progress.

W2
300m TM warmup (~3.5mins)
BS 4x108.5 (=PR, but deeper this time), 4x105 (wtf why cant i get more than 4 reps?!), 5x100 (thas better)
BS (belted) 1x110, 1x115
sprints 5x30 (04:78, 04:50, 04:58, 04:50, 04:50)
ABZ
  -  rollouts 2x10 (from knees, strickter than last week, damn these were hard)
  - weighted crunch 2x5x10kg, 2x10x10kg, 1x8x20kg, 1x20kg, 1x8x35kg

FS notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvIOIOxbab4
^pr of 115kg @ 182 lb

I decided I didn't want to do upto 20 heavy singles. I understand that's what an advanced lifter needs to do, but i made most of my front squat gains by doing 2x3. So I don't need to go balls out every time. If anything that makes progress harder, mentally more challenging too. So i stuck to dancing with the girl who got me where i am, 6 heavy hard reps, and then a backoff set of 5. Done. The 5 was pretty, and i'm going to try to keep the bulk of my reps pretty so it becomes automatic and ingrained.

BP notes:
Have hit a wall on bench press progress. Have to figure out how to get myself unstuck.

BS notes:
Ok so I can't seem to get more than 4-5 reps this week. I didnt get one single set of 6 which makes me sad. Dunno why. Maybe cos I did dls on monday? but it doesn't seem to have affected my front squat for some reason. Anyway, we'll see what happens nxt week. Also next week dont attempt backsquat PRs on friday. BS PRs come on monday or wednesday from now on. It's too much to expect FS and BS prs on the same day. In fact i'm inclined to only do BS once a week if that will get me unstuck.

Sprint notes:
As much as I like to measure progress, i have to admit that holding the Gymboss in my hand throws my form off. Especially on the start, and from watching my videos it seems I take forever to get going. I can't push off properly off the ground, and feel slow having to coordinate my start as well as triggering the timer at the same time. In fact on viewing my footage, the majority of the 4.5s is spent in the first 5-10m. So i wont take the timer with me anymore. At some point i'll like to measure how i'm doing, and I'll figure that out later, but in the meantime i need to concentrate on my form and running as fast as possible instead of worrying about timing myself over such a short distance/duration.

ABZ notes:
Here is where my training went wrong the last 12-18 months. I stopped doing heavy ab exercises. For me that used to be chinups when I was heavier (? 90-100kg). Even stuff like ab roll outs at that bodyweight made my abs bigger. But since i became a lightweight (? 85kg) - chinups stopped being a heavy exercise, esp when I stopped doing the weighted variation. And my abs got weak and small. But i'm fixing that now by doing weighted chinups and weighted crunches etc. Adding back ab wheel. Give it a few months and I think i'll have bigger stronger abs. It might be one reason why my abs aren't showing yet, becos they're too small. I remember them being a lot bigger, popping out of my flab when I was heavier. I remember them popping out after doing bw chinups. That never happens now becos i'm too light. Another data point, after wednesdays weighted chinups, i experienced ab soreness after chins for the first time. That's a sign i'm on the right track now. Damn i was stupid to stop doing weighted chinups while cutting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on September 14, 2012, 01:33:16 pm
Well , i am not a diet expert but there is a missing link here. What was your bodyfat percentage before the cut?
BTW, i don't mean to insult you or call you fat or something. I am not muscular either and i have a very hard time going under 15% or a 35'' waist. I was jsut very surprised to see you at 20% in the middle of what looks like a well planned and sucessful cut.

If we work backwards, my bodyfat at 86-87kg would have been around 22%. I thought it was over 20%, so i wasn't too much off. I never got a DEXA though. If I had, it might have showed I was maybe 24-25%. I don't know.

Quote
And why was it that high? BTW, i don't mean to insult you or call you fat or something. I am not muscular either and i have a very hard time going under 15% or a 35'' waist. I was jsut very surprised to see you at 20% in the middle of what looks like a well planned and sucessful cut.

No offense taken. Why it was that high. Good question! I got measured twice with a 7point caliper test as follows:

+ 100kg BW - bodyfat 25% (fat mass of 25kg, lean mass of 75kg).
+ Charts and BMI measurements for my height and bodyweight also suggested the same thing.

So that means at 85kg, i should have been 12% bodyfat.  

When you were at 100kg there's no way you could've been 35% bodyfat. If you were 35% bodyfat you'd have a 45+ inch waist. If your waist was 40 inches at 100kg than your bodyfat would've been around 23.

The thing is when you're natural and you go on a cut you lose a mixture of fat and muscle. So let's say you were 25% bodyfat at 100kg and you cut naturally to 85kg. There's no way you'd be 10-12% bodyfat at that weight because to do that you would've had to lose 100% of fat, which doesn't happen naturally.
I remember reading a thread on Adarq, which had a quote of Kelly B saying- "Dont even try to diet without some type of assistance anabolically- its a complete waste of time. Youll lose all your muscle mass and strength". Cutting isn't a science it's an art so you can come up with all the charts in the world and estimated bodyweights that you want but as you've experienced you don't know where you'll end up until you get there. So just worry about your waistline and the mirror rather than your weight.

With that said I completely agree with what you've said about cutting down and getting lean so you know where you're actually at. You're defs getting leaner though so obviously what you're doing is working but yeh I guess i'm just trying to say that even with meticulous attention to detail and calorie deficit you're still going to lose muscle when you cut it's inevitable.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 15, 2012, 02:48:20 am
When you were at 100kg there's no way you could've been 35% bodyfat. If you were 35% bodyfat you'd have a 45+ inch waist. If your waist was 40 inches at 100kg than your bodyfat would've been around 23.

At 101kg my waist was 41". But I still doubt my bodyfat was anywhere as low as 25%. Was it as high as 35%? Who knows. It's possible though. My fat was always smooth and soft but not flabby, so it never looked as bad it was it. Even if I was 40%, I think i wouldn't look it.

The way I cut from 100kg to 90kg, and 90kg to 85kg was using RFL. Which is a protein sparing fast, designed to spare LBM while burning mostly bodyfat. Did it work? I always looked really sickly skinny when I had finished RFL so perhaps I did unintentionally burn a lot of muscle in the process. Where did all the muscle go? But perhaps it was never there in the first place i would think, maybe it was just an illusion made up by the bodyfat. My best guess is that yes I lost maybe a kilo or three of muscle, and visually that made a big difference but I don't think I would have lost much more than that. If I had a DEXA i'd have definitive answer but unfortunately we will never know for sure.

Quote
With that said I completely agree with what you've said about cutting down and getting lean so you know where you're actually at. You're defs getting leaner though so obviously what you're doing is working but yeh I guess i'm just trying to say that even with meticulous attention to detail and calorie deficit you're still going to lose muscle when you cut it's inevitable.

Yep! I don't care if I carried 5kilo more muscle if it meant weighing 100kg and being a big fatfucked unathletic guy. Would rather be 80kg, 10%bf, small and athletic. Not that I am anywhere near being a lean 80kg, but i'll get there eventually. And then a lean 85kg..
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d6 (off)
Post by: entropy on September 15, 2012, 03:43:47 am
Training
650m FTM

Not doing anything else today. I'll give my body a break and reward it for surprising me with an overnight whoosh on the scale. Well under 82kg now! And I had no reason to expect it. Usually the day after training days, my bodyweight increases slightly but never decreases. I ate a carb heavy meal last night to refeed gylocogen after a hard week of training.  And what a shock to see the scale drop. I guess sometimes it takes a refeed to trigger a weight drop. Lets see if it sticks over the next coupla days.

BW: 81.7kg/180.12lb
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d7
Post by: entropy on September 16, 2012, 02:21:28 am
Damn, I usually look forward to sundays because they're easy but today i've got powercleans, conditioning, jumping/dunking and pickup basketball scheduled. Lets see how it goes.

Training
FSTM (4.3kph, 650m)
TM warmup (300m)
PC 4x1x60, 1x65, 1x70, 0x72.5, 0x71, 0x60
5xSVJ, 5xRVJ, 5x0xdunks (couldnt land a single one)
HIIT 3x (2x50m sprint, 50m jog, 50m walk)  (~4mins duration)
football length sprint (length unknown, 100-120m? - 15:65s)
5 minute jog warm down

PC notes
its funny how i'll hit a max on PC  (=70kg) and then I can't clean anything after that, it's like my CNS says ok thats it we're done for today. Which kind of means if i keep doing the same thing every time i'll never improve. which isn't true because my form is still coming around. i switched to hook grip today which is a lot kinder on my wrists on the 2nd pull. i just dont find it as comfortable when bringing the bar down (i cant drop it - no  bumpers).  Perhaps next time go for a few sets of doubles rather than singles

Skipped pickup basketball this week. I just don't see the point. Is pickup CNS fatiguing? Lots of starts and stops from stationary, quick accelerations and slowing down, no time to get into a stride etc. It would explain why i would feel so banged up afterwards, perhaps its not my muscles that take a beating but my CNS and joints.

I took my weekly free meal. preworkout had some cheesy/garlicky/pastry thing. it was heavenly. oily but.  i wasn't lusting after it or anything, just was at a loss for a preworkout carb source. Reminds me, i should go buy some cereal, have started to think cereal preworkout would be just perfect. something effort=0, tasty, fat free, kind of nutritious and of course carby, will be just the thing.

BW: 81.75kg/180.23lb
Soreness: abzs still very sore from friday, quads and hams too.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d1
Post by: entropy on September 17, 2012, 12:02:02 am
(http://i.imgur.com/Twpzt.png)

BW:81.95kg/180.67lb
Soreness: a little abs, a little hams, a little quads

That's 3 days of being under 82kg in a row, so i'm happy to think it has stuck. That overnight kilo loss is here to stay.

PR - waist is now 34"  :personal-record:

Feeling good about fat loss, I have my birthday coming up this week but i'll probably stay true to my diet, don't really feel like celebrating anyways. I'd rather get under 80kg asap. With the weather warming up, i'm feeling good about being lean, the idea of a summer without being fat is a novel thing. Once my body weight has stabilised a little, i'm going shopping for a new wardrobe. Have been holding off buying new clothes since my bodyweight has been in constant flux the last year and a half. Most of my clothes don't fit me anymore. The other day I went sprinting and my shorts were falling off my waist lol.. i'm no longer an XL  ;D

I'm going to continue being aggressive about dropping under 80kg to get there quickly. The faster I am done cutting, the sooner I can get down to building some muscle and finally being in a position to drive my lifts up hard.

Training
FSTM (4.5kph, 700m)

TM warmup (300m)
BP 6x81.5 (PR!!), 6x77, 6x73, 3x5x75 (wide grip - PR)

TM warmup (300m)
FS 4x100 (PR!!)), 4x95, 4x92.5, 4x90
BS 1x100, 1x105, 1x110B, 1x112.5B, 1x115B, 1x117.5B
RDL 3x130(PR!!)), 10x105(PR!!))
DL 2x3x95 (felt real light, form was good, i dunno how it happened but now I can DL with good form!)
ABZ
  - weighted crunch 15x37.5,15x45, 8x55

Have been patient waiting for the new week to start so I can bump up the daily TM parameters. Took a 0.2kph bump because I wanna get up to 5kph faster than 0.1kph/week increments will allow. Once I get to 5 i'll take 0.1 bumps though. Also bumped up the distance from 650m to 700m. While i'm still overweight (for my lbm), daily fasted TM work is a good idea even if it will take up a new meaning once i'm down to stubborn fat levels (~10% bf).

BP notes:
Finally a break thru - i got 6x81.5 at last, it took me 4 consecutive workouts but it's done. Now I might stick with the same weight until it's not so damn heavy. Once it becomes lighter, i'll take the reset to 80kg and change to bigger plates. They're slightly heavier than expected, that's why i'm being very cautious around the 80kg plate boundary. To get 81.5kg I have 2x20kg, 2x5kg, 2x2.5kg and then 8x0.5kg plates. So a lot of plates but now my aim is to transition smoothly into the bigger 2x10kg plates, ie. 2x20kg, 2x10kg and from then from there 'll chase 6x85. Oh yea and the wide grip assistance has gotten very heavy (RPE 10). I think i'll stay with the weight until it's easier, and once it becomes lighter, i'll go aim for 3x8 with the same weight. That should be enough stress to keep my chest stimulated for quite a while.

FS notes:
Well looks like I made another break thru in squatting. Something Lance said turned me on to it. Turns out it's better to FS first and then BS because that way the FS form remains pure. Doing it the other way like I had been, instructs my body to behave incorrectly which doesn't happen if I just FS first. But what about BS after FS? That works fine. My guess is that for HBBS that's the way to go, FS and then HBBS reinforces upright squatting. If you are a LBBS squatter though, you probably don't want to pollute your LBBS by doing upright FS first, so in that case you would probably want to LBBS first and then FS last.

RDL notes:
Back was straight this week on the heavy RDL, back on the wagon. 150x3 by the year end thank you very much.

ABZ notes:
Think i got the hang of these weighted crunches. They caused wicked soreness since friday btw which is why i'm going to keep doing them. The problem is, it's hard to get in position with all these fkn plates on my chest. Also my tiny hands can only grip 2x20kg plates + 1x10kg and including the 4th plate, its all too thick for me to hold properly. I might be able to use the 15kg instead of 10 next time, but then what? 3x20s isn't going to happen unless I grow my paws some. If only I had heavy DBs :( Damn shame because this is a great exercise. Btw I can't just hug the plates because it limits ROM. Maybe i'll experiment and see what I can do about it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 17, 2012, 05:04:04 am
With the weather warming up, i'm feeling good about being lean, the idea of a summer without being fat is a novel thing.

You're in Australia?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- b00m deadlift mystery solved
Post by: entropy on September 17, 2012, 01:20:56 pm
FUCK it just occured to me why my deadlift was pretty today. It just came to me in a flash of insight.....

the reason.....

is

BECAUSE I DID RDLS first!!!!!

They warmed up or stretched my hamstrings, allowing me to get them in a good position which allowed me to set my back perfectly flat. That's it, it's the rational explanation.  :o

Hmm I wonder if this has any ramifications for backsquat. Perhaps I could do some warmup RDLs before squatting and see what difference it makes.

After squatting today, I have recently come to believe my weak core (esp lower back) is the reason why i suck at backsquatting. It's why wearing a belt helps me so much. With my proportions, I have so much tension on my abs at the bottom of a squat, on account of my leverages, that my abs and lower back need to be made of steel to lift even modest tonnages. step back, im on this. I put on the belt for 112.5 I think, after doing 105 w/o belt, and the velcro wanted to open up at the bottom of a squat. It was eerie. So that just goes to show how hard my abs have to work to stabilise even such a light squat load. Interesting stuff.

raptor, in or on?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 17, 2012, 04:00:29 pm
at
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 18, 2012, 03:35:00 am
My brother took me to a buffet for lunch. Godamn i'm stuffed. Best steak i've ever had. I expect a backsquat PR tomorrow.

Today became an unscheduled carb reload. Have been eating sweets and snacks all thru the day.

I've almost finished a 12 hour binge, er, i mean carbofat reload. Have been eating nonstop. Carb at me bro.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d3
Post by: entropy on September 19, 2012, 02:50:16 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrjRj4uQQ1o

Training
FSTM (700m, 4.4kph)

TMW (300m, 3 mins)
BS 5x108.5(PR!!), 3x110(PR!!), 3x103.5, 4x100
OHP 4x57.5, 4x57, 5x57

TMW (300m, 3 mins)
Chins 3x91.7(+7.5kg), 2x3x92.8(+8.75), 3x94.4 (+10kg), 2x6xBW
CURLZ 8x46(1/2 curls, PR), 8x40, 8x35, 8x31
HIIT 2x(2x (2x25m sprint, 25m jog), 25m walk) - 02:59:58
football length sprint (100-120m?) - 15:15s  (PR)
whole oval jog - 03:19:15 (PR)

BS notes:
Form was ok. I have been paying careful attention to what part of my body fatigues just before eminent failure. It was hamstrings. My fucking hamstrings don't have the strength endurance to go thru 6 reps. Quads are fine to FS 115kg and yet I have trouble doing 6 reps of 108.5kg on BS. Why? Hamstrings. As soon as I hit around 4 reps, hams give up and don't hold my back angle, back rounds, form becomes abhorrent. And core (lower back/abs) also comes into the picture during rep limit sets, i'm working on that too by doing a lot of core work now.

Quote
Hmm I wonder if this has any ramifications for backsquat. Perhaps I could do some warmup RDLs before squatting and see what difference it makes.

Tried this today. It actually worked nicely, i could tell from my first backsquat warmup with the empty bar that my hamstrings were nice and flexible at the bottom. This is probably my only worthwhile discovery in the gym worth a damn. If you have problems with flexibility at the bottom of a squat - try warming up with RDLs first.

OHP notes:
OHP is going great now. I widened my grip on account of my long arms. I dunno why I had such a really narrow grip before, but now the lift is easy peasy. In a months time i'll be repping over 60kg fo sho w/ bw < 80kg.

Chins notes:
Weighted chins are the shit. I'm getting stronger very quickly. Can't wait to do reps with a 20kg plate hanging under me.

Conditioning notes:
I can't believe I ran the whole oval without stopping. It's my first time lol. I felt in slow-mo mode though, but was surprised with my time of 3 mins 19sec - that's not bad for an unfit fat dude. I wonder how long it is? Maybe a km? Dunno.  
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d4 (off)
Post by: entropy on September 20, 2012, 03:53:05 am
Training
FSTM 700m @ 4.4 kph

Have been thinking why my powerclean isn't going up. My best powerclean was 75kg when I weighed ~100kg in 2010. I started doing PCs 2 weeks ago and the first time I tried them I got 70kg after not having done them in years. So that made me confident that with a bit of practice i'd be quickly cleaning a lot more (i was thinking in terms of BW). But it hasn't happened. I suspect it is because my lowback strength is holding me back. That's why i've added deadlifts back, also to assist my backsquat which is about to be overtaken by my front squat lol.

I'm having problems with hunger. When i'm on my diet for a while, then it's easy, hunger isn't a problem. But having all this leftover cake and stuff in the fridge is stoking my hunger. I keep craving stuff I can't eat :( I gave away a lot of the cake already but i've still got some left over (had 3 total lol).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyQSzx0ofto

^watched this documentary, got some ideas. have to increase my NEAT. the guy in the doc burned 500kcal more by moving up and about more instead of his usual sedentary sitting down all day.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 20, 2012, 11:01:35 am
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that low back strength is not what's limiting your PC. 75kg is light weight. you can DL way, way, way more than that even with solid form.

post video.

also, throw away the cake and stuff. i never read eric cressey or tony gentilcore anymore, but back when i did one of the best lessons i got from them was: if it's in the house, you're probably gonna eat it. if it's not in the house, you're probably not gonna eat it. basic behavioral economics. it's much easier to restrain yourself from doing something that requires effort (putting on shoes, going outside, traveling to the store, buying something individual, carrying it home) than something that requires little or no effort (opening the fridge in your boxers and sock feet, stuffing your face).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 21, 2012, 12:25:24 am
i'm gonna go out on a limb and say that low back strength is not what's limiting your PC. 75kg is light weight. you can DL way, way, way more than that even with solid form.

post video.

videos from sunday
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXo1cGJujrA <- 65kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nba4CWmg_4o <- 70kg

I know form isn't great but it's improving every time

I suspect lower back weakness because, take my last workout for example. I did ohp, backsquat, and weighted chinups. The next day my lower back was sore. Now consider i never usually get sore from backsquats (can't remember the last time it happened that i got sore lower back from squatting for that matter), i think it was weighted chinups which did it. So if my lowback is being torched after some weighted chinups with only a 10kg plate, then i think i have a lot of weakness there. It's not just pulling the bar up to the knees where the low back is needed (and you're right 75 is light for a deadlift) but even the 2nd pull you need a strong back. I read it somewhere on the internet lol, i think pendlays forum

Yeah and I agree with you about not having the stuff around. I just got all this food from other ppl on my birthday but I want to be disciplined enough to know when to avoid eating something when it conflicts with my goal. But i find myself rationalising it saying, it's ok brah, its for recovery, go ahead, a bit of carb and fat is anabolic, have those chocolates and cake. Anyway i think i'm on the wagon now, just gotta stay the course. After a few days, it becomes automatic. Thanks for the tip though, it's spot on for me. I never go out and buy something that I know isn't on my diet. If anything i'd come back with something super healthy instead after mentally debating it lol
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 21, 2012, 12:57:02 am

 No.  Your lower back is more than likely TOO ACTIVE in driving the lift, rather than holding a static position.  The second pull should be GLUTE driven, as hip extension should always be, with the quads assisting.  Most people with a short torso and longer legs are not weak in the low back, the levers are massively in their favor.  They are using the low back to do things it should not be doing.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 21, 2012, 01:00:03 am
Shit, that makes sense. I did have a much stronger, bigger ass back then, so that's probably why I could clean more. Hmm.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 21, 2012, 01:03:08 am
 just saw vids.  The reason youre feeling your low back so much is youre getting on your toes during the pull.  If you want to think " jump" for the second pull, think of  jumping off the HEELS.  Yes the toes will come up, as an after the fact of the explosive hip extension from the HEELS.  

Youre also essentially doing a half deadlift, then doing a hang clean.  I would do some clean pulls early on, sweeping the bar into the hip/upper thigh, making sure you are in good position for the second pull.  Then carry on with the power clean.  Don mccauley has some good videos on these positions and drills if you are interested.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZR2tolczAo
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 21, 2012, 01:16:50 am
Damn. I need to unlearn a lot of things Lance, might as well re-learn them properly now rather than later. I'll watch the video and try again on sunday and put up new vids.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d5
Post by: entropy on September 21, 2012, 01:41:38 am
(http://i.imgur.com/H6q7i.png)

Back on track after birthday diversion thankfully. Waist is just under 34" now, and I can see my 3rd ab faintly if I flex in the mirror. I am starting to think i am closer to 15% than I am to 20% now.

Training
FSTM - 4.4kph, 700m

TMWU - 300m, 3mins
FS 2Fx110, 1Fx117.5, 1Fx116, 1Fx107.5, 4x1x103.5, 1Fx102.5, 1x103.5, 6x90(PR)

TMWU - 300m, 3mins
BS 3x90, 2x100, 1x97.5
BP 6Fx82, 6x80 (2x10s), 5x77
ABZ - weighted crunch 10x60, 15x65
        - ab rollout from knee 2x15
        - cable crunch 2x10
5x30m sprint (no timing)
      
FS notes:
Horror workout. My lower back was still sore coming into this workout and absolutely shattered by the end. And it showed, I struggled bigtime. The string of failures shows that clear enough. I was failing reps right at the bottom, even before my legs could get involved. It makes me sad that my run of FS PRs came to an end. I dunno whether it was doing this workout pseudo-fasted (and yet it didn't stop me PRing last fri?) - but this was a terrible workout. At one point after the heavy sets, i couldn't see properly and that lasted about 1/2 hour before i could see better.I ate some chocolate, that might have helped.  In the end i decided to make up my 10 reps at 90% (90% of 115 = 103.5).

Btw part of the reason i had a bad workout was using the wrong cue. I came into the workout concentrating on spreading the floor out with my feet. That works quite well for backsquats i admit, but i realised after my penultimate single which I failed, that it must be the cue which is to blame. Lo and beyold the next rep, i didn't use that particular cue, and I made the rep. So i'm doubly annoyed because had I know it was a bad cue, it's possible i would have had a few more PRs today. No mind. My lower back will get stronger, and then I wont have soreness after weighted chins and then i'll set some more FS PRs.

ABZ notes:
My brother was home so got him to spot me on the weighted crunch. I used 3x20kg plates initially, got 8 reps. Then added another 5kg in the next set and kept going and got 15 reps lol. I must have some strong abs huh? I bet I could probably do 5 reps with like 80kg but that will mean being completely buried underneath a big stack of plates.

The cable crunch seems promising. I'm still learning how to do it properly but it allows me to add weight easily, as well as working alone without a spot.

Sprint notes:
I must say it was liberating not having to HT. I felt myself much faster off the floor and stronger thru the whole start and strong thru the finish. If I was timed, i'm sure i would have been close to 4 flat. Once a month i'll probably go during the day with a camera and time myself using that. It's more accurate that way too and I can really concentrate on my sprint.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 21, 2012, 02:02:55 pm
Thinking of getting a pair of knee sleeves.From what I have read, they help keep knees warm. Which is nice because I usually have to heat up my knees with a heater before squatting otherwise they feel rusty. I also think see i haven't got the best genetics for strength, i should be proactive about my joint health. I'm not equipped with large robust knees, so a bit of support will probably help my long term health.

(http://www.undergroundelite.com.au/images/T/Tommy-Kono-Knee-Elbow-Sleeves.jpg)

The Tommy Kono pictured seem to have a good reputation. They're $55 for the pair and another $8 for shipping. I dunno what the difference is btw these and what I can buy from any pharmacy
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 22, 2012, 03:32:42 am
I am considering replacing daily fasted TM work with something else. I enjoy the TM - it gives me a chance to listen to some music and unwind, but if it's hurting my knees, it's not worth it. I'll still do fasted aerobic work, but probably involve taking the dog for a walk instead. If this fixes my knee issues, then i'll make it a permanent change. I'll still get the knee sleeves as a preventative measure when squatting. The other thing I haven't explored is rolling my quads with a softball, see if that looses them up and helps knees feel better. But one thing at a time, so I can pinpoint which made the most difference.

Ha, tried on a pair of my brothers jeans (mine are far too loose even with a belt), they're 82cm(~32") and they fit me but slightly loose! I could be justified wearing a belt. Feels good man.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d7
Post by: entropy on September 23, 2012, 06:23:01 am
Training
Fasted walking/jump rope - 15min

PC 3x40, 3x50, 3x60, 2x67.5, 1Fx72.5, 1x71 (PR!), 1x72(PR), 1Fx76, 1Fx75, 1Fx72.5, 1Fx72.5, 1x67.5, 2x3x62.5

Powerclean notes:
I watched the Don Mc video on sweeping the bar in. He also suggested putting the bar closer to the toes than I used to. It's further now, so much so the bar no longer touches my shin on setup. Is this ok? Anyway. sweeping the bar alone wasn't enough to make any apppreciable progress. For that I needed another improvement: stopping the stupid jumping thing I had picked up from the wrong way of being taught the lift.

Sweeping the bar and staying on my heels and not jumping was a revelation. I instantly got two PRs once I made the change. And I was surprised to see the bar rack because I wasn't exploding up like I had previously been taught. Instead I was transferring more momentum to the bar rather to propelling myself in the air. So I was delighted with the 2kg PR. The funny thing is, I almost nearly racked 75kg which would have equalled my lifetime PR albeit weighing ~20kg less than when I set it. I'm convinced with a bit more tinkering on form I could have racked 76kg as well, I just forgot not to jump (it seems it automatically happens when the bar feels heavy, i relapse into the older wrong way). If I had stayed on my heels i might have come closer to racking 76 like I almost racked the 75 where I consciously stayed on my heels.

Anyway i've decided I am not served well by doing a lot of heavy singles and failing a bunch of them. It's probably the right way to go if you have a lot of experience with the lift and your form is good but in my formative period with learning new technique, too much weight just confounds the learning process. Starting next week i'll just do a bunch of lighter triples, nailing down form, and add weight when I've mastered the previous load. This way i'll get a lot of reps with good form which will teach correct technique and later when I've got good form, i'll go back to doing heavier singles. I'm going to be super ambitious and hope to clean 90-100kg by the end of the year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2UT4915I4k - 1x72kg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaA9mmVRuU4 - 1Fx75kg

Thanks again Lance for the sweeping tip.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 23, 2012, 07:00:41 am

 Thats better man, and yea, the bar will sit right over the joint of the big toe in most cases.  You sweep it into the hip as you "press" the floor.  You still have a little hitch there but its getting better, nice.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 23, 2012, 07:02:18 am

 Thats better man, and yea, the bar will sit right over the joint of the big toe in most cases.  You sweep it into the hip as you "press" the floor.  You still have a little hitch there but its getting better, nice.

I was thinking I could do better. I'm not getting that pop out from hips in my PCs the way I do from my hang cleans. I could probably hang clean more than I could PC right now, because my PC form is so bad. Haha. I'll keep working on it!  :)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 23, 2012, 07:07:04 am

 Thats better man, and yea, the bar will sit right over the joint of the big toe in most cases.  You sweep it into the hip as you "press" the floor.  You still have a little hitch there but its getting better, nice.

I was thinking I could do better. I'm not getting that pop out from hips in my PCs the way I do from my hang cleans. I could probably hang clean more than I could PC right now, because my PC form is so bad. Haha. I'll keep working on it!  :)

Go slow during your first pull, really slow for a while.  The MOST important thing is that the speed accelerates, not the total net speed.  slow, little faster , little more, FAST is much better than fast-faster-slower-fast
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 23, 2012, 07:08:54 am
Will do. I noticed when I got the 71 and 72 I pulled them slower and just concentrated on getting in a good position to do the 2nd pull right. I was really struck with surprise to find the bar still racked even after pulled slowly. The other reps I failed, I was trying to pull harder/faster from the ground, but didn't rack those. I think I have a good feel for what a good PC should feel like now. It's not the 1/2 DL + jump shrug at all, it's a sweep and hip fwd movement while keeping the tension on heels (so to avoid being airbourne on the toes).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 23, 2012, 07:40:52 am

^ yes, its one fluid movement, and the most important part of the first pull is getting it into a good spot for the second pull.  There is an old saying that goes the first pull cant make the lift, it can damn sure fuck it up though.  The second pull IS the lift.  And youre spot on with not chasing the barbell up into the air.  Youre trying to move the load AWAY from you, not go chase it.  Mccauley has another video where he shows at the end of second pull, youre actually SHORTER than you are standing straight up. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 24, 2012, 01:56:12 am

^ yes, its one fluid movement, and the most important part of the first pull is getting it into a good spot for the second pull.  There is an old saying that goes the first pull cant make the lift, it can damn sure fuck it up though.  The second pull IS the lift.  And youre spot on with not chasing the barbell up into the air.  Youre trying to move the load AWAY from you, not go chase it.  

Got it.

Quote
Mccauley has another video where he shows at the end of second pull, youre actually SHORTER than you are standing straight up.  

should I be catching the bar standing upright or should I be in a 1/4 squat position so i'm shorter so I don't have to pull the bar as high?

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d1
Post by: entropy on September 24, 2012, 02:25:27 am
Training
fasted aerobic ~15mins (walk, jog)

BP 6x80, 7x75, 8x72.5,
WGBP 5x75, 6x70, 8x65
Hang PC 1x70, 8x2x60

TMWU 300m (3 mins)
FS 4Fx102.5, 4x97.5, 4x95, 4x92.5
BS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 1Fx115
RDL 3x132.5 (PR), 10x107.5 (PR)
DL 2x3x100
ABS - cable crunches - 3x10  (this is the greatest exercise ever, i feel in the abs from rep 1. Nice burn. Big abz here I come)

Hang PC notes:
I can't stop myself jumping up on the 2nd pull. I tried hard to keep my heels grounded but it just happens. Frustrating. It's like my body prefers to pivot on the balls of my foot rather than pivoting on my heels. It could be that I need to have a bigger heel on my shoe?

DL/RDL notes:
DL - In the 2nd set,  I used a setup similar to my PC in that the bar was further from my shins. This made a huge difference and it just felt much better.


FS notes:
Didn't get the 102.5x4 PR sadly, failing the 4th rep. But nevertheless I had a break thru in squatting after that set. My shorts were fucking up my form somehow, they were causing my back to round. I then squatted in my boxers and I must say it was most liberating. I felt looser and my bottom positions in the subsequent sets were almost perfect, dare I say, Kingfisher like. I was in the zone, upright and controlled. I need to shop around for a pair of shorts which will allow me to squat without interfering with my positions at the bottom. Failing that, i'll just stick with squatting in boxers. Why mess around with something that works.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 24, 2012, 11:41:11 am
vids are private, can't see 'em.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 24, 2012, 11:45:05 am
vids are private, can't see 'em.

try now
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 24, 2012, 11:56:44 am
vids are private, can't see 'em.

try now

there you go.

also, re: bayes. you ever read harry potter?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 24, 2012, 11:58:43 am
Nope, is it a character from there? I'm saving HP for when I have a child to watch it with haha.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 24, 2012, 12:32:45 pm
Nope, is it a character from there? I'm saving HP for when I have a child to watch it with haha.

ah well. if you'd read the books, i'd recommend an AMAZING fan fiction* of harry potter that reimagines harry as a math prodigy and dedicated rationalist who refers pretty frequently to bayes. it's actually significantly better than the original books. but not worth reading without having read those first, because you won't get 75% of the jokes.

*no, i do not ordinarily read fan-fiction. i used to read star wars novels as a kid but that was like 15 years ago.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d2
Post by: entropy on September 25, 2012, 11:00:53 am
I might check it out sometime brah. Thanks for the headsup.

Training
40mins fasted walk

And this is prob the last time i log daily aerobic work. I've been doing it daily for over 14 days now, and it's become habit and i'll be keeping it up. No need to clutter up my log with stuff like that. Now if I happen to miss a session i'll log that of course. For what it's worth, my knees already feel much better from laying off the treadmill. I'll continue with and stick to non-TM aerobic work in future.

My glutes were slightly sore for the first time after those nice deep front squats I did last time. It's funny when I did SS with LBBS the only part of my body which got sore from squatting was lower back and glutes. Always glutes. Since then my glutes have rarely gotten sore.









Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 26, 2012, 04:40:47 am
Why don't you go to the gym when you're fresh, whenever that happens?

I was trapped into the schedule mentality for years but I'm finally seeing the bigger picture. You don't need to become the slave of layed out programs.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 26, 2012, 04:52:47 am
Obviously don't go over board, but it's better to be more rested than more fatigued IMO, especially if you're a hardgainer.

I usually take just another rest day and then go to the gym if I'm very tired. It doesn't make any sense to push through fatigue only to get more and more and more run down to the ground. If you do it, you're going to need a deload at some point.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d3
Post by: entropy on September 26, 2012, 10:17:56 am
Training
TMWU 300m/3mins
BS 2x108.5, 2x110, 1x112.5, 1x115
OHP 4x57.5, 4x57, 3x58.5

TMWU 300m/3mins
Chins 3x3x97.25kg (+12.5kg), 5x88.25(+3.75kg), 2x6x84.5
CURLZ 8x47(PR, 1/2s), 8x40 (4 full rom, 4 almost full), 6x35 (full rom but right arm cramped up otherwise i had 8 reps), 6x32.5 (right cramp)

HIIT - 6 intervals of 10s on, 15s off
SSTM - 15 mins, 1.5km

Still have noodle arms, they haven't grown a jot even though i've been doing arm work regularly now. I've gotten stronger at the lifts but it has done jack all for me. Ridiculous because next week i'll be doing strict dead hang chins with 100kg and i'm almost half curling 50kg and yet i still have 12.5" arms. DO I EVEN LIFT?

Conditioning notes:
I finally figured out how to use my gymboss timer to do intervals lol. I started conservatively. I'll add 5s of on and reduce 5s of off next time. And probably add an interval to make 7. The "official" tabata is 8x20s on, 10s off. I'll approach that within the next 2 workouts.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 26, 2012, 10:32:02 am
plan on getting back into making squat PRs

1. better preparation and recovery (improve hydration pre, peri and post workout, don't lift fasted, get a meal in before the first session of the day, full seminal stores during the week, dont wear out knees using the TM, etc)

2. reduce CNS stress (backsquat and front squat heavy only 1x a week: that means heavy triples, doubles and singles - only one day a week no more, cut down on the powercleans a lot- 1x week and not excessive intensity/volume -  they seem to fry my CNS, ditto on the deadlifts)

3. add volume, my backsquat loves volume  (lots of sets of 6+ reps, stick in the 80-85% range of 1RM)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 26, 2012, 12:14:37 pm
i love the growing preoccupation on adarq.org with limiting jacking off or having sex. you'd think we were a bunch of boxers in camp before a big fight. anyone know of any research on that? quick pubmed search of "effects of masturbation on serum testosterone" didn't yield anything relevant.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 26, 2012, 12:26:53 pm
there are studies out there but i really don't wanna turn my log into a discussion on the merits of abstaining lol

finding myself seduced by the lure of new lifting gear..

exhibit 1.. grey pendlays (i have the whites but they're ugly and i had the heel modified to be lower for when i was a lowbarer but apparently these only have a 0.75" heel? So if i'm after a much bigger heel than my current ones, 0.75" might not be enough anyway)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/515GALR5LOL.jpg)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51PFFG%2BkEmL.jpg)

Cost: ~$115

But then i'm also considering the ristos which have a legit 1-1.25" heel and would be ideal for olympic lifting
(http://www.undergroundelite.com.au/images/D/New-UGE-Weightlifting-Shoes-Australia.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_vzvO8xq9sdY/TLsYDZTXGsI/AAAAAAAAAdA/Fv_DeUNv1Kg/s1600/WThundr4.jpg)

These cost $115

And finally a cheapo pair on ebay which goes for around $90

(http://i.imgur.com/UYv7Z.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/BuGUq.jpg)

Or I could buy something more expensive and hope it's good enough to last a lifetime etc..

(http://www.budo-fitness.cc/os2/images/ADI-G17563.jpg)

adidas powerperfect ii for ~ $160

Oh and I forgot, another pair I came across..

(http://awf.com.au/merchandise/images/boots2.jpg)

The AWF pair for $110. The heel looks pretty high on this one too

Honestly I can already do a pretty nice deep upright front squat with my current shoes. If i get one with a bigger heel i might be able to go slightly deeper but it wont help my front squat much. But the reason i'm entertaining new shoes is because i'm hoping a higher heel will help my highbar backsquat to become more upright deep.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on September 26, 2012, 01:34:02 pm
We've had the discussion about masturbation/sex etc before, it just lowers aggression, bascially lowers rate coding etc.

If you have sex then you relax, chill, you don't need to "spread your seed" so you're like "ah, whatever, I don't need/want to be aggressive". I think that's safe to say it reduces your lifting and jumping abilities, basically anything that depends on rate coding etc.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d5
Post by: entropy on September 28, 2012, 05:10:22 am
Training
TMWU 300m, 02:26
FS 2x107.5 (didn't have a 3rd), 2x110 (PR), 0Fx117.5, 0Fx116
BP 6Fx80.5, 6x77.5, 6x75

TMWU 300m, 02:46
HBBS 2x100, 2x1x107.5, 4x100, 3x97.5, 6x92.5, 3x90
5x30m sprints

ABZ - cable crunch 3x5 (+3.75kg from last time, great burn, my abs still feel warm minutes later lol)
       - plank test - got an easy PR of 1 min before it got challenging. So that means i've improved core strength since i haven't done planks in months. Good to know that the ab work i've been doing is paying off!

FS notes:
I had heard but not known until now but these heavy RM attempts really do fuck you up for subsequent lifts. In hindsight instead of that 2nd heavy single i should have attempted a lighter 3RM PR instead. Or even if I had attempted 116 instead of 117.5 in the first place I would have got it. That's another thing, best be realistic and admit a ceiling of 5kg gains per month. So I should try 1kg, 1.5kg, 1kg, 1.5kg jumps over 4 weeks instead of trying for weekly 2.5kg ones as I have been til now and failing them.

Next friday I will attempt the following PRs hopefully with no failures:
106x3, 111x2, 116x1

If I make the above PRs, then the following weeks I will add 1kg or 1.5kg alternating.

Failed 116kg. I lean fwd out of the hole and it makes it difficult to lock the lift out. My question is this - if I had a higher heeled shoe, would I have got that lift? Mine have a heel slightly lower than 1/2". Suppose I had a heel around 1" - would that put me in a position to make that lift rather than to fail it?

HBBS notes:
I stumbled upon a nice little trick I hadn't seen mentioned anywhere else - I thought to explicitly instruct my hips to go forward on the descent. This combined with finding that feeling of sitting between the legs makes the entire thing feel very much how a front squat feels at the bottom. Which is good. Additionally I found by taking a slightly wider stance than usual, I could really stretch out my legs, so much so, rather than being limited by hamstring strength as usual, I felt the tension entirely on my quads.

The bad news is, looking at the video, it doesn't look similar to a front squat. The other caveat which worries me is that it seems to put myself in a rather precarious position if the lift is abortive and must be completed via a squatmorning, because the bar is rather forward. Maybe i'm just not meant to backsquat. Video below.

dessert:

(http://i.imgur.com/13Whg.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on September 28, 2012, 11:48:38 am

  Lifts look much better.  Dont get too overy critical of minor details that cause you to get frustrated.  Your squat is FOR SURE training your legs in a way that will strengthen them for athleticism.  Sure you can eventually get even more upright and more stable, but what youre doing now is also effective as you continue to improve technically.  Keep trying to improve and dont fall into that "I simply CAN NOT do xxxx".  You can, and look how far youve already come.

  I wouldnt get so frustrated with the missed pr's either.  Some days youre going to have "off" workouts, its many reasons that cause this and some of them are actually positive.  Having a set goal of volume like 30-40 total reps at >80% can really work well for you in those cases, you get some very crucial volume in even though youre not hitting a pr, that will enable future pr's in the next weeks. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 28, 2012, 11:56:06 am
Just what I needed to hear. Starting monday i'll accumulate volume (30-40 at over 80% is a lot more than i'm used to, almost double,  but i welcome the challenge and hope it does good things for me!) and make sure I do a good quanity of acceptable quality reps each workout. Appreciate it as always Lance, legend!  

:headbang: :ibsquatting:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on September 28, 2012, 01:15:28 pm
I looked and I can't find anything! There are of course hardware timing gates (i think this is the technical term) but they cost a fair bit. And i dont need anything fancy just smething I can roll out on my own as a personal project. There are a whole bunch of fitness related apps out ther but nothing for timing sprints unfortunately.

ya man i'd rather be able to do it accurately on my phone too.

nice man sounds like a fun project.

i can't even get that android simulator to run on any of my systems.. really crappy specs.. takes like 20 minutes for it just to load up.

continuing it here so we're not spamming his journal or yours lol

yeah i was sprinting earlier and just before my last 30m sprint as i was resting it came to me in a flash, and i shouted out 'damn thats a good idea'. there were some ppl nearby who must have heard me and thought what's wrong with this guy lol. but yeah, i really think it could be something accurate enough to do the job and what I like about it the best, it will be reliable/reproducible. with hand timing, sometimes you just fumble triggering on and off and it's hard to be consistent. i also hate how hand timing gets in the way of starting and finishing. i heard they found a way to speed up the simulator but i never tried it personally. i'll let you know how it goes when i try it out
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on September 28, 2012, 04:10:11 pm
what lance said. also, it seems kind of weird to go for a 3RM pr, a 2RM pr, and then a 1RM pr. i'd pick one of those three and focus on that for the workout. personally that tends to be 1RM because it's the most fun. but if you've put enough effort in to pr for three reps, what makes you think you'll have enough left in the tank to set a real 1RM pr?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- programming change
Post by: entropy on September 29, 2012, 02:36:38 am
what lance said. also, it seems kind of weird to go for a 3RM pr, a 2RM pr, and then a 1RM pr. i'd pick one of those three and focus on that for the workout. personally that tends to be 1RM because it's the most fun. but if you've put enough effort in to pr for three reps, what makes you think you'll have enough left in the tank to set a real 1RM pr?

Yeah you're right. If my programming is good the 3 rep PR should be slightly less than the 3RM. That's why i'm going to be looking at 1kg and 1.5kg PRs now. So hopefully I can do a heavy triple and then a heavy double and a heavy single which are PRs but not true RMs. If you're asking me why i'm attempting all 3. Well I started with triples and then I got stuck, so i went for doubles and then i got stuck with those and went for singles and got stuck. And because I don't know on a given day which one will succeed and which one will fail, i try all three. Probably not optimal but it's hard to predict which attempts will be successful a priori.

I have to concede my new program isn't working and needs revision. My knees are constantly sore and I am hardly ever fresh. I've also got an insufficient amount of volume for squats and I will be doing more reps starting monday. It now resembles a bodybuilding split with 2 dedicated leg days where I do a shitload of volume. I'm moving the conditioning to the leg days because that way I will give my legs more rest since they'll have 5 days off and 2 very hard days on. Lets see how it goes.

(http://i.imgur.com/X6uNh.png)

UPDATED: HIIT during the day is stupid unless indoors, so move to PM.

side note, how cool are newbie/memory gains. have only been doing ab crunches for 2 weeks and my upper abs pop out, bulge out underneath the fat. gives me confidence that when i'm done cutting, i'll be able to gain back some of the mass i've lost, eg in upper back, lats and CALVES!!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d7
Post by: entropy on September 30, 2012, 03:03:37 am
I slept awkwardly from wearing my massively oversized jordan hoody on account of it being very cold the night before and woke up left glute pain I used to have all the time when I had chronic sciatica. Thankfully it's gone today though. Very relieved, it was scary there for a while, i didn't want to relive that nightmare again.

Taking today off on the scheduled conditioning sessions. I'm resting up for the next program starting tomorrow where conditioning days coincide with leg training days. So it's no big deal, i'm just going to delay it a day. Hope it works better this time around.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- end of sept progress summary updated
Post by: entropy on September 30, 2012, 11:24:01 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/4cBkf.png)

BW=81.35kg/179.35lb

~3.6lb over three weeks is not a bad result at all, all things considered. I'm comfortably under 180lb now at least. And very close to slipping into 80kg.

My best front squat in August was 112.5kg, my best FS in sept was 115kg. So I added 2.5kg, whooptydoo. I might have got 116 if I hadn't tried for 117.5 but that's neither here nor there. Anyway i've had enough of shitty progress and i'm going to add volume starting today when I begin my new workout, so things might be on the up. We'll see.

Where is my bodyfat at right now? Still have no accurate idea. It's in that fuzzy region of ~15-20% and could be anywhere there. Extrapolating if I will be 10% at 75kg say then based on that estimate i'll have an lbm of 67.5kg then i'm roughly 18% right now which is reasonable. On the other hand, i have good reason to believe I am at or very close to 15% right now. My waist is under 34" and into the 33s and my bodyfat may well have even slipped underneath 15% already. But until I reach say 12-13%, it's not yet /obvious/ exactly how lean (or fat) I really am right now.

I've been cutting for ages and it's coming up to the time I need to take a scheduled diet break which is set for 15th October and will be 2 weeks long til the end of October..

That gives me 15 days to finish up this cutting phase at my target of being reliably under 80kg (176lb). If things go perfectly and better than expectation i'll get as low as 79.5kg or 175lb but i'll settle for just being under 80kg at this point. I wont be 10% bodyfat at that weight, but i'm confident it will definitely below 15%. This might be too ambitious since losing about 5lb in 2 weeks is unlikely even over 4 weeks leave alone 2 but we'll see what happens. If I get an early whoosh I may just be able to ride it out to a 5lb net loss. If I don't then at least i'll get under 80kg. Only time will tell. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d1
Post by: entropy on October 01, 2012, 03:29:29 am
Training
FS 4x101 (PR), 3x98.5, 4Fx96 (went real deep on the 4th rep and annoyingly caught the pins, had forgot to adjust them prior or i'm squatting deeper now, otherwise I had that rep easy), 4x94, 4x93.5, 5x92.5 (PR)
1x30m sprint (timed it close to 4.5s w/ camera and I also used t0dday's inspired idea of setting a manual interval)

BS 3x90, 2x100, 4x100, 6x95, 5x93.5, 1x97.5, 3x92.5, 3x92.5, 3x87.5
RDL 3x135 (PR), 10x110 (PR)
DL 2x3x105
HIIT tabata sprints, 14 on, 13off, 7 intervals total
ABZ - 3x8 weighted cable crunch (+5kg)
SSAT 10 mins, about 1km lol (my quads cramped had to stop)

FS notes:
Great squat session. Good form, nice and deep, controlled and solid reps, nice amount of volume. Really happy despite making a few fixable blunders like getting caught by the pins. It was very hot today and different from what i'm used to but I didn't mind it. Nice not having to heat up my knees. I don't think i'll be bothering with getting the knee sleeves until get it gets cold again.

I also found I was going rock bottom deep with weight above 80% so I'm putting on hold any thoughts of getting new shoes. I don't need them, I have sufficient flexibility to make do with a small heel. Later if I need to use a different shoe to squat > 1.75bw then i'll rethink it but for now i'm good.

One thing i'll mention is I made yet another technique breakthrough. I took a really close grip of the bar (like 15mm away from the smooth), this allowed my elbows to be pretty much perpendicular to my torso and nice and high, which allowed me to really get real tight, and this helped stay upright and together. The only concern is if I ever fail a rep and have the bar drop suddenly if i could smash my elbows on my knees? that would be bad. But i dont know if that's even a possibility and i like to think the pins would catch the bar before it got to that? I should do an experiment with the empty bar to see what happens.

Total reps above 80% attempted: 25 reps

Conditioning notes:
HIIT session delayed til evening - i went to the park and tried it but it was too hot and i'm not crazy enough to attempt tabata sprints in those conditions

I did run one max effort sprint. I set the interval timer to countdown to 2s before starting, and i took off at the beep, then it beeped again at 4s. At that point i was pretty close to the finish line. So i'm confident that I can get quite close to 4s if i am a)fresh (i definitely wasn't today), b)i finish cutting and push my strength up. Exciting stuff! All i know is, with a 30m sprint eventually under 4s I shouldn't have any trouble playing competitive basketball at a decent athletic level if I ever decide to play again

HIIT was a killer. I didn't like this session. Last time I felt fully recovered for every sprint but this time 2-3 intervals in and i was panting like a dog and 'sprinting' slowly

I'd just like to point out I ran on the TM today topless and last time I tried that I had to stop and pull on a shirt because of my moobs slapping around. But today there was minimal slapping. See guys, cardio/hiit does magic things for me. Even though i've only lost about a kilo of bodyweight, i've lost a lot of fat because of conditioning. I can't explain it but it's magic and happens every time I start conditioning.

BS notes:
No more HBBS nuff said. See next post for detail.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 01, 2012, 11:15:11 am
The high bar experiment comes to an end

I was seduced by the arguments by Pendlay et al that HBBS is superior and better for athletes. I still find the arguments convincing and believe them to be correct. But i've tried HBBS out for a few months now and it's not worked out as well as I hoped. I still hold that an upright squat is a better squat, and if my backsquat were very upright I would be happy, but it's not going to happen with either back squat variant. My HBBS is more upright it's true but it has several drawbacks which I describe below. I also believe that HBBS in general is more upright and closer to the FS. And for some people their HBBS would be a great lift to use to drive up their FS. They should definitely use HBBS heavily. I'm not one of them. I also don't believe the other camp in thinking that LBBS carries over to FS either. So far i'm with Glen. But then trying it out, it just didn't work out for me.

HBBS and FS together beat up my knees, HBBS is harder to get right and more risky and the real kicker, it's not much stronger than my FS. So I never experienced the holy grail of doing 1 squat (HBBS) and seeing my FS go up with it. PC dominant squat wont help my FS go up, I know that and don't expect it to. Only my FS will help my FS go up so the idea of carry-over loses it's appeal in practice for me. And since the HBBS gives me no benefit but has drawbacks (knee beatup) then it's a no-brainer to pick LBBS which does provide benefits which FS does not.

I wish I could do a pretty HBBS that is upright, deep, heavy and carries over to FS. The reality is my HBBS sucks, it's lower than my FS, it is dangerous when form breaks down (i will invariably snap some shit up when the loads are much heavier and form deteroriates due to fatigue or what have you). I already had a scare from last friday when my last set of HBBS which were light but done while fatigued tweaked my back bringing back sciatica symptoms. No thank you.

I don't like keeping my hips in because it makes it harder to set a flat back which will come back and bite me at some point if I keep up with HBBS.

To sum it up HBBS doesn't give me anything that FS does not, but it gives me far less (except the back bruise!). So it's settled. I went back to PC dominant backsquats and it's time to rebuild PC strength and get back to squatting over 120kg for reps asap. I do a nicer, safer PC dominant squat and it's better on my knees since sitting back is much gentler on them. FWIW my hamstrings were shaking badly just using 97.5kg which should be a light warmup for me. I have regressed but it's ok, newbie gains for the reaping.

FS is still my main squat and I will be driving it up towards the lofty goal of 1.75*BW. Anyway things are lot simpler now, HBBS was no panacea for me i'm sad to say. i'm done experimenting, just going to stick to the familiar basics which have served me well so far: FS and using the PC dom squat as assistance. The End.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d2
Post by: entropy on October 02, 2012, 08:21:58 am
Training
BP 5x50, 2x60, 3x70, 1x77.5 (warmups only)

Well. When my last warmup felt like a max attempt, I knew there was no way I was getting 6x80.5 today, so I called the workout off and will try again tomorrow. I was hoping I would have a better bench workout by having it on a seperate day, but I wasn't counting on being so weak and destroyed for upper body work after monday's hardcore lowerbody training but apparently it's just so. This sucks. Have to go back to the drawing board and make a new program now

But for what it's worth, not doing upper work yesterday made recovery for lower body quite good. Hams are a bit sore but that's normal and otherwise my lower body feels fine today.

Well laid plans of mice and men..... don't survive the first battle, is that how the saying goes?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 02, 2012, 09:31:29 am
THE BEST LAID SCHEMES O' MICE AN' MEN
GANG AFT A-GLEY

robert burns. that poem is awesome, the opening lines are just awesome:

wee sleekit, cowrin' tim'rous beastie,
oh what a-panics in thy breastie?

thou need na start awa sae hasty,
wi' bickerin' brattle!
i wid be laith t'rin an' chase thee
wi' murd'rin' prattle!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d3 - whoooosh
Post by: entropy on October 03, 2012, 01:52:13 am
Do you have an English translation? Lol but nice, i gotta read the full poem, sounds intriguing

I swore I wasn't gonna do another one of these cutting posts so soon since i'm obsessive but I can't help it because I might have had that much cherished overnight whoosh although it might just be a transient water balance thing.. we'll see over the next coupla days if it pans out and sticks.

 anyway here it is

(http://i.imgur.com/HOH7r.png)

BW: 80.75kg/178lb

I'm into the 80s baby!!

Although I still think i'm fat but im probably now under 15%. If it sticks and I am consistently into the 80s then I might just reach my goal of being 175lb (@ 13%?) by the end of the diet which is in 13 days time. Lets see what happens.

Training
BP 5x81, 5x78.5, 7x75, 7x72.5
WGBP 5x75, 6x70, 4x66, 5x62.5

OHP 2x55, 2x57.5, 3x4x52.5, 3x52.5
WCU 2x100 (+16.25kg, cheated 3rd, dont count it), 2x98.75 (+15kg), 1x98.75 (cheated 2nd), 2x4x88.8(+5kg), 3x86.3 (+2.5kg), 5x85(+1.25kg)
CURLZ 2x10x30, 1x10x20

BP notes:
Much better workout today. I think i've only just recovered ground though, no progress yet. I made one mistake today which was going to failure in latter BP sets, which made subsequent sets harder and made me fail those short of my rep goals. So next time avoid failure. It's not worth getting a PR in one set by going to failure if the latter sets are below par. PRs must not come at the cost of form or entire workout quality/quantity. Made up 20 reps of wide grip all the same, didn't quite get the chest pump I wanted but that was because of going to failure, won't happen next time.

All in all, I think i will annoint Weds to be Chest day. I'm a bodybuilder now, didn't you know?

Bad workout but i know how to improve it. Next time do presses in the AM followed by chinups. Bench in the PM. That will work best. I only did BP first today because I wanted to get a hard BP session to stave off detraining.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- program modifications
Post by: entropy on October 03, 2012, 04:37:56 am
(http://i.imgur.com/X6uNh.png)

Just going by trial and error but this is what im thinking of in terms of changes

0. Mondays stay the same
1. Tuesday off
2. First upper body workout on Weds. Make it hardcore. Shoulders (heavy ohp) and upper back (heavy weighted chins) in AM; chest (high vol bp) and arms (curls) PM
3. Thursdays off
4. Friday keep the same
5. Saturdays off
6. Sundays 2nd upper workout, make it a lighter one, tricep assistance (medium close grip bp, the skull crusher like lift lance suggested a while back), shoulders (medium ohp) and arms (curls). This shouldn't affect mondays workouts hopefully. 

The benefits are I get a bit more frequency for ohp which i'm told the lift loves. and Arms get hit 2x a week which should give me better growth than i've seen so far (close to nil).

So in pictorial form it looks like:

(http://i.imgur.com/laHPD.png)

disclaimer: Management reserve the right to modify or withdraw program at any time whenever deemed necessary etc
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: seifullaah73 on October 03, 2012, 05:33:51 am
THE BEST LAID SCHEMES O' MICE AN' MEN
GANG AFT A-GLEY

robert burns. that poem is awesome, the opening lines are just awesome:

wee sleekit, cowrin' tim'rous beastie,
oh what a-panics in thy breastie?

thou need na start awa sae hasty,
wi' bickerin' brattle!
i wid be laith t'rin an' chase thee
wi' murd'rin' prattle!

English translation

Small, crafty, cowering, timorous little beast,
O, what a panic is in your little breast!
You need not start away so hasty
With argumentative chatter!
I would be loath to run and chase you,
With murdering plough-staff.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 03, 2012, 10:55:36 am
cheers seifullaah73 ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/iS8cm.png)

dinner which is my 2nd meal of the day. Today it is rice w/ snow peas, potato & caulliflower and chicken, banana protein shake in lowfat milk. 

This is pretty much how I eat most days, so i'm not starving myself, I just avoid the junk and let the caloric deficit do its work. Maybe when i'm closer to 10% i might have to eat like a bodybuilder w/ steamed veges and chicken breasts, but so far I haven't needed to thankfully. I owe most of my success to getting my breakfast right 100% and sticking to it day in day out without fail.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on October 03, 2012, 11:17:06 am
cheers seifullaah73 ;)

(http://i.imgur.com/iS8cm.png)

dinner which is my 2nd meal of the day. Today it is rice w/ snow peas, potato & caulliflower and chicken, banana protein shake in lowfat milk. 

This is pretty much how I eat most days, so i'm not starving myself, I just avoid the junk and let the caloric deficit do its work. Maybe when i'm closer to 10% i might have to eat like a bodybuilder w/ steamed veges and chicken breasts, but so far I haven't needed to thankfully. I owe most of my success to getting my breakfast right 100% and sticking to it day in day out without fail.

damn looks good..

im absolutely starving right now, that didn't help any.


entropy, did the new forum mess up your sig? i remember you had a picture in your sig.. or did you just take it out?

peace man
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 03, 2012, 11:32:50 am
damn looks good..

im absolutely starving right now, that didn't help any.

hah sorry!

Quote
entropy, did the new forum mess up your sig? i remember you had a picture in your sig.. or did you just take it out?
peace man

Nope my sig was getting a bit long but it still works w/ images, i just checked.

Also have you watched dexter ep1? spoiler: omg so crazy. you almost feel sorry for deb. they have done an amazing job with the start of the season.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on October 03, 2012, 11:46:41 am
damn looks good..

im absolutely starving right now, that didn't help any.

hah sorry!

Quote
entropy, did the new forum mess up your sig? i remember you had a picture in your sig.. or did you just take it out?
peace man

Nope my sig was getting a bit long but it still works w/ images, i just checked.

Also have you watched dexter ep1? spoiler: omg so crazy. you almost feel sorry for deb. they have done an amazing job with the start of the season.

slick use of spoiler....

here's my reply:

bro, that episode was SICK.. this season looks like it's going to be way different than the previous seasons... i dont foresee him just hunting down one killer the entire season.. it looks more like he's on the verge of snapping and just kind of goes apeshit with all of the conflicting stuff going on..

homeland was equally good.. what a ridiculous back 2 back combo.

:!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 03, 2012, 12:06:58 pm
spoilers: when they were running thru the last season recap, i couldn't help but notice how weak that season really was. the other serial killer villians were boring, there was no suspense or mystery it was just a bad season except for the ending which was different. And from the first minute of this season you can tell it will be completely different. I found it more unsettling than enjoyable, engrossing for sure. I miss the old dexter story line of dexter almost gets caught but then he somehow manages to finnese his way to freedom at the last second. But now with deb knowing everything as dexter goes thru the motions at the crime scenes, you lose that sense of secrecy and escaping in plain sight. Still. I'll def be watching it!

I saved homeland ep1 for tonight, will tell you how I find it tomorrow  :headbang:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 03, 2012, 12:39:47 pm
THE BEST LAID SCHEMES O' MICE AN' MEN
GANG AFT A-GLEY

robert burns. that poem is awesome, the opening lines are just awesome:

wee sleekit, cowrin' tim'rous beastie,
oh what a-panics in thy breastie?

thou need na start awa sae hasty,
wi' bickerin' brattle!
i wid be laith t'rin an' chase thee
wi' murd'rin' prattle!

my totally un-poetic translation (real poets have translated it but i can't be bothered to find one):

little sneaky, cowering, timid beast
what's that panicking in your breast?
you need not run away so quickly
with angry squeals.
i'm not going to run and chase you
with a murderous stick!

even good translations have NOTHING on the original, though. wee sleekit, cow'rin', tim'rous beastie...best description of a mouse in the history of the english language.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d4
Post by: entropy on October 05, 2012, 02:12:11 am
Fell off the diet wagon after 10 days of strict compliance. I had about 600 calories worth of chocolate and probably 1000 of icecream and a greasy lamb kebab (500-1000kcal). I do so well during the week but it seems whenever my brother comes over, I end up binging on stuff he brings home. It's my fault though. I was experimenting with this thing I read from Lyle where you don't let cravings built up, and if you feel like having a piece of chocolate, just have one, and end the craving swiftly right there and then before it builds up into a ravenous eat-everything-in-sight monster. Well it kind of worked, I only had two caramello koalas. But then a few hours later i came back for the 3rd to reward my discpline and breakthru in self control. And then a little later I had another one, just because I felt like it, and it was just one, right? The icecream came later when I gave up and decided I had fucked up so badly that I might as well go full cheater mode. Which is exactly what I had been instructed to avoid in the first place by eliminating cravings lol.

(http://i.imgur.com/OLuhX.png)
The following day weigh-in

I'm getting disillusioned with cutting and being so far from my desired bodyfat levels. Feels like i've been cutting forever and yet i'm still so far from 10% bodyfat. Realistically I can't even get there by the end of the year. I will probably finish at just under 80kg mid oct. And after the break, on 1st nov,  if i have managed to maintain my weight (big if, that will be challenging) over the break, i'll have to lose another 5kg, probably. 5kg in 6 weeks is impossible, esp since i have a 2 week diet break at the end of Dec, at which point i'll have to maintain my weight during the holidays!

So realistically we're looking at maybe finishing the cut sometime february? anyway we'll see what happens but fuck getting so fat that it takes forever to get lean. i'll never go above 15% again. I should have been starting my cut under 80kg, not 87kg or whatever it was I started at. Anyway i'm not going to stress about this stuff anymore, I have so far to go that it doesn't pay to be obsessive this far out.

Not much to report otherwise as it was a rest day. I woke up with really sore lats and chest for a change, which was nice. I am really digging my new program.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d5
Post by: entropy on October 05, 2012, 03:40:19 am
I have had 3 days rest since my last leg workout. Lets see how it goes. Maybe a PR or two if I'm lucky. I think I will still get those knee sleeves. My right knee still doesn't feel 100% even after the rest.

Training
FS - 1x100, 1x106, 0x110, 1x100, 1x102.5, 1x105, 0x107.5, 2x100, 2Fx102.5, 0x100 (total reps I think 13 inc failed ones)

ABZ - rollouts, 3x10
       - crunches 3 sets (+10kg on baseline)
SSTM - 2.25km, 20mins

FS notes:
Horrible workout. No chance of PRs. I must admit I got this wrong. If i'm going for volume, something has to give, bar weight, and I should have come into this workout thinking of doing 10x2x102.5 or something, instead of trying for heavier PRs and having no chance at getting them. As a result I have nothing to show for this workout, no PRs, and only half the volume I should have got because I burnt out trying for heavier reps and failures.  Note to self, don't chase PRs, get the volume, workload is king, PRs will come later.

enough of this freestyle bulllshit i've been doing, i am my own worst enemy. I need a program with predetermined sets and reps and weight. Modified smolov junior for FS over 2 days? I read that in Pavel somewhere, i'll dig it up and go for it
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 05, 2012, 05:59:54 am
Code: [Select]
Sets Reps Weight
6 6 85
7 5 90
8 4 95
10 3 102.5

6 6 90
7 5 95
8 4 100
10 3 107.5

6 6 95
7 5 100
8 4 105
10 3 112.5

This is based on adding 5kg per cycle. Obviously it would take me a lot longer since i'm doing it over 2 sessions per week and it will take 2 weeks to do one cycle. I might have to take smaller jumps in the last two workouts but that's okay, we'll see what happens.  Also I might jump in at 8x4x95, which should make Lance happy since that is ~80% and I don't drop below 80% for the duration of the program.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 05, 2012, 08:52:43 am
sounds like your experiment with nipping the eat-everything-in-sight monster in the bud did not go very well. sounds pretty classic, actually. you'd been doing great and you still are, don't worry about it too much.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d7
Post by: entropy on October 07, 2012, 08:00:14 am
CURLZ 7x5x32.5

Not doing my program anymore. My body can't handle it. Knees are getting worse by the day and right quad is acting up. There is a time and place for high volume programs but it's not at the tail end of a cut to 13%.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 08, 2012, 03:17:18 am
RE: bad training performance over the last few weeks

I fell into this perfectionist trap where I was setting up a long fast before training, then not eating a full meal but just a small snack briefly before training. I know from past experience that this kills my squat but it's so tempting to optimise calorie intake around training to maximise fat loss that I lost sight of what's equally important as bodycomp and that's performance.

Today i'm breaking this habit. I've had a decent meal after fasting only ~15hrs (compared to 17-18 last week), and i've had plenty of water throughout the day. I'll have a 2nd preworkout carb meal later just before training while training later during the day like I used to before I got distracted by fasting. I know that as long as I stick to my macro and calorie goals i'll get the fat loss so the extra leangains IF nonsense is just an unnecessary performance handicap. I can still do the long fasting nonsense on rest days when it doesn't affect performance but strictly speaking it's not essential even then

The other thing i'm changing is my training itself. Each set I do must count for something, if it's not important, it's not worth doing. I have to make sure every rep has a purpose within the overall framework of physical performance. Enough volume is better than too much or too little, and I have to watch intensity and keep my CNS in check while cutting. I'll adopt Pavel's refrain about leaving a workout feeling fresher than when you began it. Avoiding failure, no grinding, keeping a rep or two in the tank. All that good stuff. Saving the CNS tasking workout for just one day (friday), and perhaps just one set, and keep the rest of the week low on CNS fatigue.

And I think i will go back to full body workouts too. I think the combo of daily treadmill work, high bar squatting and front squatting alot so often took a toll on my knees, but now that i'm not using daily TM or hbbs it should be ok to squat 3x a week while keeping my knees happy. I'll keep a close watch on this and make changes I need them. I do love the bodypart split approach but i'm going to save that for another time, it's better suited for when bulking rather than when cutting, probably.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d1
Post by: entropy on October 08, 2012, 07:13:03 am
FS 3x102.5, 2x102, 2x98, 2x95, 4x92.5, 4x91
BS 5x80, 5x85, 8x75

FS notes:
Started off with my knees very rusty. As the workout went on, they felt better and better. The only interesting thing about this workout, apart from how weak I have gotten was that I discovered I shouldn't be trying to bring the bar back at the bottom of the squat but rather forward. Very counter intuitive. But the upshot is that it really stretches out my ankles and pushes my ass into my calves getting a nice bounce that doesn't hurt my knees. Remember this for next time.

BS notes:
It's clear to me now that the RDL gave me false confidence. It's been a huge waste of time, it hasn't done jack shit for my hamstrings and I only know that because I can't LBBS for shit any more and the RDL hasn't maintained leave alone built any hamstring strength since I stopped low barring. If the RDL had lived up to the promise of a hamstring builder then I wouldn't be struggling with squatting 90kg right now. Sure it makes hams sore. But i'm wondering whether whenever my hams got sore, it wasn't just for show and ultimately meaningless? Who cares.

On the other hand, i'm going to take the opportunity to get higher rep work with the backsquat. 8s and maybe even 10s while i'm working back up to my older PRs.

So i'm going to do squats and presses and upper assistance work and that's it. If i get a nice squat (both fs and lbbs) then i'll have decent lower body strength. Ditto with bench press and weighted chinups.

I'll do benching tomorrow, I want to try the upper body day by itself again and leave mondays, weds and fridays as sole lower body days.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 08, 2012, 08:39:35 am
Plan for squatting over the coming weeks
- fs & and lbbs mon, wed, fri initially, then fs only mon and fri, and bs mainly weds only.
- bs - start with a heavy triple top set, avoiding failure and grinding, adding 5kg each time, then 2.5kg. After topset ramp down and get a nice deep six reper, followed by a lighter 6+ and an 8+. Aiming for total reps of ~20-25.
- fs - work in the 4s and 3s, adding 1-1.5kg each session, ramping down the weights thru the sets, no more than 20 reps, aim for 16 hoping to get 4x4.

goals, for oct i'd say getting 115x3 on bs would be great progress, 107.5x3 more realistic, but lets see what happens. for the higher rep sets, i guess 100x6 and 90x10 would be a good start. If i get that, i can hope to get to 125x3, 110x6 and 100x8 by year end? Dunno we'll see how it pans out. As for FS, well I wanted 130x1 but since i've stalled out pretty hard, maybe i'll be lucky to get even 120-125, but we'll see what happens. For this month, i guess 120x1 would be a great achievement.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 09, 2012, 01:46:02 am
(http://i.imgur.com/P8BnG.png)

Never seen this before. I think it's just my scale being funny. It probably can't differentiate weights around 80kg accurately and it's appearing to round to 80. So when it does move appreciably from 80, i'll probably just wake up one day and appear a lot lighter on the scale

I can't remember if I remembered to update my strict compliance thing yesterday, that's annoying

new soreness: quads, all over my upper thighs, upper/inner thighs, lower back (yes!), glutes, hams (of course). It makes sense. I remember the same inner thigh sensation during workouts involving fs and lbbs, and it's good to find that familiar soreness returning. the thing is, on a particularly tasking FS workout, my inner thighs will also be on fire, so probably hitting them often with heavy or high rep pc dominant back squats will probably help drive my fs up than did my hbbs. I am regretting not heeding lance's advice early when i started front squatting to keep a hamstring dominant exercise in my program. At the time I did use pc dominant for a while but then I thought it was enough just doing RDLs, but if RDLs have helped me in any way, it isn't with hams

It's clear now that the combination of FS and PC dominant squats give me a complete leg workout. When I was doing hbbs+fs, i wasn't hitting my legs as well, going by post workout soreness

Also i'd like to record my backsquats are a lot deeper than they were in the past which is something I'd like to maintain. When I compare my front squats now with front squats a month ago, or even longer, it's easy to see the difference in depth. I am going ATG now and wasn't getting much below parallel when I started. So FS might have helped with my flexibility not just in doing fs's but also bs.

this is pretty exciting stuff, can't wait to get back to moving heavy weights
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on October 09, 2012, 05:17:47 am
Never seen this before. I think it's just my scale being funny. It probably can't differentiate weights around 80kg accurately and it's appearing to round to 80.

Testi it ( if you haven't done it already ). Weigh yourself and if it says 80 drink 500ml of water and weigh again. If it says 80,5 it means it works fine.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 09, 2012, 06:51:45 am
It's not really a big deal, either way im too heavy and have to get lighter but the scale itself does a good job differentiating 1kg and more when i checked it in the past, im not sure if it can tell apart 500g but i'll check now, i have 0.5kg plates :) Also if you check the graph if i weigh 1/2 pound lighter it shud be able to detect that

update so i checked,

Baseline = BW
Baseline + 1/2kg plate = no change to BW
Baseline + 2x1/2kg plate = +1.1 kg

Which is about right, so it doesn't seem to care for ± 1/2kg but it will detect 1kg changes in the right direction
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d2
Post by: entropy on October 09, 2012, 08:16:22 am
BP 2x81, 4x80, 3x79.5, 3x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 6x70
WGBP 5x72.5, 4x70, 5x65, 5x60

Have lost ground on BP too. It's clear I shud go back to 3x full body workouts, that's what works best for me.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 10, 2012, 03:00:53 am
Knees now feel great. I've given them rest by cutting out the fasted walking stuff and I think the last time I ran was on 4 days ago on a treadmill which made them feel terrible. Hard to say whether it's because of rest or whether doing PC dominant squats has helped. Maybe both? I'm glad either way. Strictly speaking, I don't even need fasted training yet, I should just save it for when i'm into the stubborn fat stage around 10% bodyfat and I still have that weapon in my armoury.

I think once i've finished cutting, i'll come off the creatine. It will take off a few kilo of bodyweight and water bloat, and hopefully make me more athletic. Then i'll save creatine for later when i really need it, eg chasing a 3 plate bench press, 40" vert or a 4 plate squat not for my current modest goals. I know it helps with recovery which is why i'm staying on while cutting but later i'll stop using it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 10, 2012, 10:57:21 am
Food log

Meal 1:
3 eggs, 2 slice wholemeal toast, 400mL lowfat milk, 1.5 scoop whey, strawberries and banana (total cal ~700)


Meal 2:
Have run out of will power now when it comes to dieting. I just ate to satiety the following

3x masala dosa (loads of carbs, low fat, ~ 500g of potato..)
400mL lowfat milk, 1.5 scoop whey
5 snack size mars bars (~500 kcal)
1 bowl icecream  (~200 cal)

Hope my fat ass gets some PRs tomorrow, i'm itching to squat. The upside of waiting 2-3 days between squatting makes me look fwd to squatting rather than seeing it as a chore

I'm ashamed to admit I couldn't finish the last week of my diet properly, I just can't string together 2 days of compliance anymore. I doubt i'll hit my goal of <80kg either
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 02:15:15 am
Bodyweight: 80.6kg / 177.69lb (PR)

(http://i.imgur.com/97NqE.png)

The thing that kills me if I saw this progress yesterday I would never have broken my diet lol. The whole reason I lost motivation was out of frustration at the lack of progress on the scale. Anyway i'll start from scratch today, lets finish this thing.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: adarqui on October 11, 2012, 02:40:08 am
Bodyweight: 80.6kg / 177.69lb (PR)

(http://i.imgur.com/97NqE.png)

The thing that kills me if I saw this progress yesterday I would never have broken my diet lol. The whole reason I lost motivation was out of frustration at the lack of progress on the scale. Anyway i'll start from scratch today, lets finish this thing.

yup, make sure you're looking at the real data before you get frustrated.. your mind will easily play tricks on you to get you to stuff your face.

regardless, sticking to your diet more often than not is still effective.. sometimes you need to just give in and cheat.. if for some reason a day of cheating leads to 6 days of motivation, then it served an effective purpose.

i'd cheat 1-2x/week when leaning out.. but that's 5-6 days of staying focused.. everything depended on my 'stomach shrinking' though.. as i stuck with it, i'd need less food to satisfy me, even with the cheats, so it just adds up throughout the week and you get that good fat loss..

i honestly loved the fasted or non-fasted long walks to help with the fat loss.. sucks that it's making you feel achy etc.. cycling your legs a bit more, on occasion or for some significant duration, really helps to loosen up those quads.

pc man
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 06:59:11 am
Nice ideas there adarqui. Reminds me of batman -

Quote from: Alfred Pennyworth
Why do we fall sir? So we might learn to pick ourselves up

Of course it explains why after a day of falling off the diet, you sometimes re-double the efforts the following days in trying to get back on track. Nice.

You're right about mind playing games - my thinking was I had stalled out, that to go further in my cut i'd have to cut more calories (scary) or train more (my poor knees) or worse take supplements (while still a long way from when i should need them ~10%).

RE: fasted walking, yeah. I think it might be partially because i'm not hydrated enough and my joints aren't well lubricated or whatever? I should try walking while hydrated see if that helps but I tend to just jump into it while hungry/thirsty.

One day i'll join a gym and then i'll have a bunch of different ways to train without beating up my knees. I'd use a SSB to hit my quads hard without breaking my knees with too much high bar/front squats. I'd use a bike or rower and get my fitness levels up without the knee beatup. I might even do it over nov-dec if i'm dangerously close to being lean and strong as a reward for my hard work lol.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d4
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 10:15:14 am
Training
FS 3Fx102.5, 1Fx102, 2x97.5, 3x95, 4x92.5, 4x92
BS 2x90, 3x95, 5x90, 6x85, 8x80 (PR), 10x75 (PR)
Sprint 5x30m (best attempt was inside 1m away from finish line at 4 seconds)
SVJx5 (best attempt hit the rim at my wrist, that might be a new PR? dunno - doesn't matter)

FS notes:
I wanted that 4x102.5 but it wasn't to be. It's defied me the last 3 attempts but one day i'll get it. Actually, next time go for 4x102. I might have a better chance of getting that than 102.5.

Form was great. YES YES. Did not hurt my knees once, i've got this shit mastered now. I'll upload a vid after coming back from sprints but things are going well for me now. No there are no PRs but they will come eventually - be patient - for now just know I have progressed in technique and depth and if I keep working hard PRs will come.

BS notes:
High rep sets are a revelation. Im using a high bar placement but without fwd knee travel of HBBS squats. So basically it's a hybrid of sitting back and high bar placement. Net result is no squat mornings, and no knee discomfort. It's the holy grail. And I go plenty deep to stimulate glutes and hams while giving adductors plenty of work as well.

For the first time I am on top of squatting. I am not going to bother with any half deadlifts (so called RDLs) or full deadlifts (so called back-snap-shit-uppers). Just plain old PC dominant backsquats and glute dominant front squats. I still don't know how to make my quads big and strong - but for now i'm nudging them along ever so gently.

brb sprinting

Sprinting & Jumping notes:
Keep in mind my running and jumping was done straight after ~40-50 reps of squatting but ..

I started off rusty but my last sprint felt great, i was quick off the ground and finished strong. Came close to hitting my 30m in under 4s goal but not yet. Maybe once i'm closer to 10% i'll crack it. Yes i will and then i'll be athletic!

Jumping, i haven't jumped in like 2 months? Feels like ages. Anyway i was surprised that even after not having jumped for so long, I could easily hit the rim at the wrist off a SVJ. That was cool. When i'm a legit under 80kg - then i'll go to the gym and test my leap properly. I'm loath to jump maximally on concrete because it bothers my ankle every time so I didn't try any max attempt RVJs or any RVJs for that matter. That makes a 30" SVJ? Cool but I want more.

So good training today. I saved the best for last, made a judgement call not to do conditioning (HIIT or SSA) today. I'll do it on teh weekend that way I wont beat up my CNS/joints too much today.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- quad contribution and squat depth
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 12:31:56 pm
I figured out how to make my squats more quad dominant. Paradoxically it means cutting depth to just around parallel. This is what I was doing earlier with my front squats when I set my old PRs. Back then, I always felt the lift in the quads. That's no longer the case now that I go a lot deeper, it's all glutes, they power me out of the bottom. Now at this point if I was perfectly setup, quads would be in a good position to contribute and finish the lift. That's not happening, I think because the bar has moved fwd, so quads cant contribute from that disadvantageous position. But cut depth and the quads can be perfectly positioned to drive the bar up since there is no fwd movement. I think I will experiment with depth. I like deep squats. And I will keep doing them. But I will also look at cutting depth when wishing to make the movement more quad dominant, perhaps as an assistance.

Videos on the way to illustrate the above.

Then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTYIc9uNVxU

Now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_qDT0j638I

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: adarqui on October 11, 2012, 12:56:27 pm
Nice ideas there adarqui. Reminds me of batman -

Quote from: Alfred Pennyworth
Why do we fall sir? So we might learn to pick ourselves up

Of course it explains why after a day of falling off the diet, you sometimes re-double the efforts the following days in trying to get back on track. Nice.

You're right about mind playing games - my thinking was I had stalled out, that to go further in my cut i'd have to cut more calories (scary) or train more (my poor knees) or worse take supplements (while still a long way from when i should need them ~10%).

RE: fasted walking, yeah. I think it might be partially because i'm not hydrated enough and my joints aren't well lubricated or whatever? I should try walking while hydrated see if that helps but I tend to just jump into it while hungry/thirsty.

ya i notoriously under-hydrate.. i used to underhydrate on purpose too, for dunking.. lose an easy ~5lb water or so, one more inch.

but ya, when im underhydrated, i'm much more achy.. since you're doing fasted walks, down 8-16oz of some propel-like liquids.. it's basically 0 kcal so that's not a problem.


Quote
One day i'll join a gym and then i'll have a bunch of different ways to train without beating up my knees. I'd use a SSB to hit my quads hard without breaking my knees with too much high bar/front squats. I'd use a bike or rower and get my fitness levels up without the knee beatup. I might even do it over nov-dec if i'm dangerously close to being lean and strong as a reward for my hard work lol.

ssbar is great.. i no longer have to worry about my shoulders while squatting & it feels more like a front squat, which i've always loved but hated racking the weight, especially when i was really lean/skinny, would kill my bony shoulders lul.. ssbar seems to hit "core" pretty hard too, it's definitely a great investment.

can you swim good? i've never used swimming as a form to improve fitness, but it makes sense.. probably would be a great tool for people like us who have to be careful with join inflam/various aches+injuries.. i doubt i could swim good enough to get a decent workout.. i can swim fine but i've never felt tired when trying to swim 'fast+long'.





Training
FS 3Fx102.5, 1Fx102, 2x97.5, 3x95, 4x92.5, 4x92
BS 2x90, 3x95, 5x90, 6x85, 8x80 (PR), 10x75 (PR)
Sprint 5x30m (best attempt was inside 1m away from finish line at 4 seconds)
SVJx5 (best attempt hit the rim at my wrist, that might be a new PR? dunno - doesn't matter)

FS notes:
I wanted that 4x102.5 but it wasn't to be. It's defied me the last 3 attempts but one day i'll get it. Actually, next time go for 4x102. I might have a better chance of getting that than 102.5.

Form was great. YES YES. Did not hurt my knees once, i've got this shit mastered now. I'll upload a vid after coming back from sprints but things are going well for me now. No there are no PRs but they will come eventually - be patient - for now just know I have progressed in technique and depth and if I keep working hard PRs will come.

BS notes:
High rep sets are a revelation. Im using a high bar placement but without fwd knee travel of HBBS squats. So basically it's a hybrid of sitting back and high bar placement. Net result is no squat mornings, and no knee discomfort. It's the holy grail. And I go plenty deep to stimulate glutes and hams while giving adductors plenty of work as well.

For the first time I am on top of squatting. I am not going to bother with any half deadlifts (so called RDLs) or full deadlifts (so called back-snap-shit-uppers). Just plain old PC dominant backsquats and glute dominant front squats. I still don't know how to make my quads big and strong - but for now i'm nudging them along ever so gently.

brb sprinting

Sprinting & Jumping notes:
Keep in mind my running and jumping was done straight after ~40-50 reps of squatting but ..

I started off rusty but my last sprint felt great, i was quick off the ground and finished strong. Came close to hitting my 30m in under 4s goal but not yet. Maybe once i'm closer to 10% i'll crack it. Yes i will and then i'll be athletic!

Jumping, i haven't jumped in like 2 months? Feels like ages. Anyway i was surprised that even after not having jumped for so long, I could easily hit the rim at the wrist off a SVJ. That was cool. When i'm a legit under 80kg - then i'll go to the gym and test my leap properly. I'm loath to jump maximally on concrete because it bothers my ankle every time so I didn't try any max attempt RVJs or any RVJs for that matter. That makes a 30" SVJ? Cool but I want more.

So good training today. I saved the best for last, made a judgement call not to do conditioning (HIIT or SSA) today. I'll do it on teh weekend that way I wont beat up my CNS/joints too much today.


one thing that always made me uber-achy was performing jumps after squatting, unless my volume was very low (such as with the crazy high frequency ltmp/rested max stuff).

nice on that SVJ.. good sign after not jumping or 2 months.





I figured out how to make my squats more quad dominant. Paradoxically it means cutting depth to just around parallel. This is what I was doing earlier with my front squats when I set my old PRs. Back then, I always felt the lift in the quads. That's no longer the case now that I go a lot deeper, it's all glutes, they power me out of the bottom. Now at this point if I was perfectly setup, quads would be in a good position to contribute and finish the lift. That's not happening, I think because the bar has moved fwd, so quads cant contribute from that disadvantageous position. But cut depth and the quads can be perfectly positioned to drive the bar up since there is no fwd movement. I think I will experiment with depth. I like deep squats. And I will keep doing them. But I will also look at cutting depth when wishing to make the movement more quad dominant, perhaps as an assistance.

ya that's why I always half'd.. saved my hips/knees & hit my quads hard.

one other possibility is eventually investing in chains or LIGHT bands.. I used to hit quads pretty hard by going deep (light) and then really loading up the weight on those chains.. so quads would really have to work once I got above parallel.. accommodating resistance is definitely effective for improving 'the best of both worlds'.

otherwise, you could just do your deep sets and then just do one progressive workup above parallel.

PEaCE!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 01:53:21 pm
ya i notoriously under-hydrate.. i used to underhydrate on purpose too, for dunking.. lose an easy ~5lb water or so, one more inch.

but ya, when im underhydrated, i'm much more achy.. since you're doing fasted walks, down 8-16oz of some propel-like liquids.. it's basically 0 kcal so that's not a problem.

Truth. Okay, i'll try fasted walking again but on the provision that i have plenty of water before hand. And you're right it's zero calorie, so there is no reason to avoid it. I just am not used to drinking a lot of water on an empty stomach but it's dumb to train fasted while underhydrated. Thanks for that, makes sense.

Quote
ssbar is great.. i no longer have to worry about my shoulders while squatting & it feels more like a front squat, which i've always loved but hated racking the weight, especially when i was really lean/skinny, would kill my bony shoulders lul.. ssbar seems to hit "core" pretty hard too, it's definitely a great investment.

Haha! i have the bruises on my collar bone and shoulders to prove it but thankfully Wolfs law kicked in at some point, and even tho i'm pretty bony, it doesn't hurt anymore and I never think twice about the rack. Bones adapt pretty quickly which is good! When I started i used to complain about wrists too but now they're plenty flexible and i'm happier for it. THe only complaint I had against front squats was my knees hurting. But I think I have that fixed now, i just have to go into the hole a certain way, and then it doesn't hurt knees. It's brilliant.

Quote
can you swim good? i've never used swimming as a form to improve fitness, but it makes sense.. probably would be a great tool for people like us who have to be careful with join inflam/various aches+injuries.. i doubt i could swim good enough to get a decent workout.. i can swim fine but i've never felt tired when trying to swim 'fast+long'.
Funny you should mention swimming. I learnt to swim last summer and i was thinking of getting back into it now that it's warm again. But the only problem is for me swimming is an anerobic activity lol, im not a great swimmer (probably worse now that im less of a whale than I was last summer!). But i'll get back into it, and if I adapt and it becomes aerobic, i agree its a great way to get some extra conditioning in. Good suggestion. I'll ask my homies if they wanna join me again this summer.

Quote
one thing that always made me uber-achy was performing jumps after squatting, unless my volume was very low (such as with the crazy high frequency ltmp/rested max stuff).

Yep i dont jump more than a few times on concrete, it's just a bad idea. So i did about 5 SVJS and stopped.

Quote
nice on that SVJ.. good sign after not jumping or 2 months.

cheers! can't wait to get to cut to 10% bf and take my front squat up another 5-15kg hopefully by then, and I'm hoping it will give me some nice improvements in vert.

Quote
ya that's why I always half'd.. saved my hips/knees & hit my quads hard.

Well. I don't have any probs with hips, and now i've improved my technique at the bottom, knees are ok. But the problem is i'm not a natural squatter. A natural squatter will go deep into the hole and come out strong and then eventually quads kick in which are perfectly placed at the right leverage to finish the lift. I come out of the hole strong but my positions are wrong for the best leverage for quads, so while they work hard, if my position was better i'd be able to lift more weight and with better form. But we work with what cards we've been dealt. I just see myself using a piecemeal approach to improving my athleticism now. Deep squats for glutes, hams, adductors etc. And then parellel squats to give quads the best leverage and hit them hard that way. A natural squatter would do one squat that covers all those bases, but i'm not one of those. I hate you LBSS.

Quote
one other possibility is eventually investing in chains or LIGHT bands.. I used to hit quads pretty hard by going deep (light) and then really loading up the weight on those chains.. so quads would really have to work once I got above parallel.. accommodating resistance is definitely effective for improving 'the best of both worlds'.

i have bands but not a pair of the same band. i could try to get another one though? And i never thought of using chains that way but wow that makes so much sense. At the bottom of the lift half of the chain is on the ground, and as you go higher, they yank up, giving the quads more work. Brilliant! I never knew how that all worked lol.  Thanks for the idea, esp with using a lighter weight to have perfect position coming out of the bottom, and then using extra resistance to make the latter half of the lift more challenging. That might just be what I need hmmmm.

Quote
otherwise, you could just do your deep sets and then just do one progressive workup above parallel.
Will try this next time I squat. Thank you.

Quote
PEaCE!

thanks bro. appreciate it.

Another thing that hit me, if I was using a higher heeled shoe, it wouldn't magically solve my problems I think. If anything it would make it worse. Why do you ask? I'd be leaning over more out of the bottom of the hole. Which would put me at even more disadvantageous position at the 1/2-1/3 squat position which is where quads are most active. But. If I were using the higher heel and doing parallel squats, then I could lift more weight and quads would be at a better leverage. I could be completely wrong about this since im just theorising though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- progress at last
Post by: LBSS on October 11, 2012, 02:02:04 pm
I hate you LBSS.


 :-*
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 11, 2012, 02:28:45 pm
 :-*

Excited for my next squat session. Get to try out adarqui's idea of throwing in a set of parallel (FRONT!!) squats. I'm gonna put 121kg (1.5xBW) on the bar and get a FS PR for a max single. It won't be deep but it will be below parallel.

:headbang:  :personal-record:

Damn, how am I am gonna get thru the next 48 hours til I can squat again :(
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 12, 2012, 01:10:47 am
(http://i.imgur.com/zzcQO.png)

Back on track!

BW: 80.3kg / 177 lb

New soreness: quads. But im not too excited about that, sprinting after a while always does that. Have also got sore lower back. Glutes and hams too. Basically everything except calves lol.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d6
Post by: entropy on October 13, 2012, 11:34:20 am
FS 3x60, 2x80, 1x85, 1x87.5, 1x90, 1x92.5, 3x80
BS 5x60, 3x80, 2x85
WCU 2x100.5 (+17.5kg), 2x2x98 (+15kg), 4x90.5 (+7.5kg), 4x88 (+5kg), 4x85.5 (+2.5kg)
BP 2x70, 3x75, 4x72.5, 6x70, 6x65, 6x60

The plan was to get a light workout in to adjust back into 3x full body workouts. It went ok for squats. Then kind of fell apart on chinups, i went for a PR and failed the 3rd rep. Well not failed, technically I made it but I cheated the last coupla inches and I don't count those. And then I did a few other heavy maximal sets.  BP was light though as planned.

In two minds whether or not to do conditioning. We'll see what happens.

Btw does anyone know what that  mild pain/soreness is in the chest/intercostals when you unrack a bench press? It's a discomfort I get whenever i have recently front squatted or benched, kind of a lingering doms that only exhibits itself on teh unrack cos i have to stretch out to take the bar out. i hate it. it's no biggie just wish i understood it better.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 14, 2012, 01:15:46 am
RE: banded squats

I dont have a pair of the same band but I tried with two different bands. The tension wasn't the same of course, but I got to try out banded squats all the same. The 2nd problem I had was my power rack does not have pegs for bands. I looped them around the pins but that gave insufficient tension, then I tried around the vertical support columns. That worked kind of except the whole thing about them being so far from where i am standing, meaning there was a great deal of tension pulling the bar off my back and into the back of the rack. Oops.

Chains are a lot more expensive but they'd work better for me at home. The thing is, if i'm going to spend ~$300.00 on chains I would want to try them out first. The same thing goes for SSB. I haven't found any gyms near me that have a SSB so I can't say whether it's worth buying one.

But I do have a plan on going to a gym with all this gear and testing out which of these pieces of equipment suits me well. I'll prob do it once i'm done cutting though, i dont wanna get distracted right now.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2012, 01:59:49 am
Why do you worry about all that at your strength levels?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 14, 2012, 02:06:45 am
Why do you worry about all that at your strength levels?

Bands and chains? Because they help train around natural limitations. What I can deep squat is nothing for my quads. To make deep squats more challenging for quads we add resistance using bands or chains.

In heavier deep squats, I come out of the hole strong but my positions are wrong once glutes have done the job and it's time for the quads to finish the lift. If my positions were better I would be ideally placed to quarter squat the weight up but i'm out of position because coming out of the hole my glutes dont drive straight up, they drive at an angle to the vertical. A strong squatter can converts the bounce out of the hole into an ideal position to quarter squat the lift to completion. My position not being ideal, means the quads are used inefficiently. Form sucks as well.

Using chains allows for using a lighter load at the bottom, as heavy as I can lift while hitting a good position at 1/2 squat on the way up, which ensures a  position that is ideal for quads finishing the lift from there, the chains kick in and it puts a greater load on quads to challenge them. The net result is a more complete deep squat workout with perfect form throughout that is challenging for all of the muscles involved.

Also I think you need to consider the troll factor of doing banded squats with 60kg and pissing off the hardcore strength guys who care so much about what other ppl do in the gym
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on October 14, 2012, 02:30:03 am
Troll factor = me being a fan.

+1
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 14, 2012, 07:52:51 am
next day after workout soreness
- weighted chins made abs sore
- light squats helped dissipate soreness in quads

Was watching clarence front squat after flander linked his vid in the beast thread. I noticed his knee position is fine into the hole, probably pain free which is good. Then on the way up his knees come in. That got me thinking. It could be something that just happens naturally on heavy squats. But if it is something that just happens naturally it must have a purpose. I think it allow the quads a more mechanically advantageousness position to work with. I'm not  sure if it's something I should try out myself but why not.

The other thing I noticed just now is the usual chest up cue. I am questioning it's literal value. A lot of stuff you just do because you heard it somewhere but who really knows whether they're useful or not unless you experiment.

Instead of chest up while arching my back, I tightened my core and crunch my chest down (instead of up) it flexes my massive upper abs. I find this position to be firmer and tighter. The whole thing feels super stable and rock solid. Chest up and the same stability isn't there. I could be wrong but i'll know for sure once I squat.  Maybe I should be squatting that way all along. I'll try it out tomorrow. I'm excited about this, maybe it will fix my SM tendencies.

And the third thing is, pause at the bottom of a squat, re-orient chest, crunch abs and tightened core and then drive the core up in one piece. Maybe this will help with form.

I'll try out all of these tomorrow.

Oh and i need to schedule more light and medium days, i go balls out every time and it's given me jack shit in terms of gains, will try a less hardcore approach.

Didn't really hit a caloric deficit this weekend. But it's okay, i'll just nail the coming week and finish the job. It's the last week of cutting so i'm quite motivated to get to 175lb.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 14, 2012, 08:06:12 pm
Troll factor = me being a fan.

+1

+2
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: 168cm on October 14, 2012, 11:07:37 pm
Quote
Also I think you need to consider the troll factor of doing banded squats with 60kg and pissing off the hardcore strength guys who care so much about what other ppl do in the gym

+100

I am in complete support of anything done in the name of annoying those halfwits.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- last week of cutting
Post by: entropy on October 15, 2012, 01:19:40 am
(http://i.imgur.com/rJ4ZJ.png)

BW: 80.2kg / 176.81 lb

Goal BW:79.3kg / 175 lb  (In exactly a week's time from now)

Here we go, the first day of the last week of the cut. I want to get to 175 so bad and if I have 100% compliance I will get there. I'm extra motivated now just to finish this thing. 175lb is a great place to end. I am hoping that last 2lb will come off entirely off the waist and take it down to high 32"s (A girl can dream).

Plan for fat loss -
+ stick to diet of course
+ daily fasted walking (20-40mins - more on rest days, less on workout days)
+ drink loads of cold water
+ stimulants before workouts
and finally the big one
+ 2 conditioning workouts this week

all of that above should surely make me loss 0.9kg in 7 days. Right. Right?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d1
Post by: entropy on October 15, 2012, 09:20:25 am
Training
FS 1x100, 3x102, 1x105, 2x106, 4x96, 4x93, 3Fx92.5
BS 2x90, 2x100, 3x97.5, 5x92.5, 6x87.5, 8x82.5, 10x87.5
HIIT sprints - 7x (11 on, 14 off)

Spent. That's a shitload of squatting, took me over 2 hours. I don't have the energy to attempt benching now. It's given me another idea to try the split again, but this time instead of being a go heavy or gtfo bro, i'm going to try something different. Tomorrow I will bench, but not to PR or anything like that - just to get some nice volume in at a medium weight.

I didn't do abs today. Because apparently doing 55 work squats is kind of an ab workout in itself. I think it's part of the reason my backsquats aren't heavier is because abs are fatigued by the time i'm done front squattin. Not making excuses just stating a fact.

FS notes:
My new cues were a shit and miss. Instead of concentrating on the only good cue i've found so far (the put the bar between the ankles at the bottom), i forgot about it while trying to concentrate on the new ones which didn't really pan out. There is no harm in experimenting, only that the ankle cue saves my knees and I did cause a fair bit of discomfort to my knee today. It's okay, it's a learning process. I thought the 106 was a PR attempt but then I checked my logs and i've done 108.5 for a double before. The depth of that wouldn't have been as good as the 106 but nevermind. I've gotten weaker though. 2 weeks ago I had better form and was finding the same weights easier but cutting happens.

BS notes:
Cunt fuck motherfuckering. Enlightenment. Nonlinear progress ftw. One gets so caught up in adding weight every time that form is sacrificed for the sake of numbers in a log. Shitty way to train. I know now that nonlinear progression is the way to go. I'm going to take a measured approach to progress, when form is good, then progress, otherwise repeat. I can progress nevertheless by adding a rep or two next time with the same weight. That's progress too. My last set is deeper, more controlled and w/ much better form. If my training max today was 100kg then 77.5 is about 80% which is the sweet spot. This is telling me I've been going too heavy and it has cost me progress and good technique. But suppose if I take my 10x77.5 to 10x100 with the same form. That will be more beneficial that trying to push up multiple sets of heavier triples or fives while having imperfect form. I think one heavy set is fine though.

reminder to self ask Lance for a form check on backsquats

Conditioning notes:
Good choice of parameters today. Next time add 1sec to on, and take 1 sec from off.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 15, 2012, 09:29:47 am
just remember that if you haven't made it to 175 in exactly a week, YOU HAVE NOT FAILED.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d2
Post by: entropy on October 16, 2012, 07:00:06 am
just remember that if you haven't made it to 175 in exactly a week, YOU HAVE NOT FAILED.

I hear you mate, will keep that in mind. Thanks.

So far it has been easy, did 20 mins fasted walking yesterday, 40mins today. Trained hard in gym and got my first HIIT conditioning session out of the way. Looking forward to training again tonight. I had a preworkout chocolate bun yesterday but it's okay it was within my macros and it didn't affect the caloric deficit.

BW this morning was 80.1kg / 176.59 lb .. confident i'll be dropping below 80 / 176 real soon.

Training
BP 2x5x72.5, 1x5x70

And that's it. Nothing more :) I took stimulants, and after finishing the 3rd set I went back out to do another one and then decided why not just stop here. Sure I could do another set or two but lets be smart about this. I'll press again tomorrow. And bench again friday and sunday, no need to go balls out every time. Save that for the PR session.

So i'm still buzzed, what am i gonna do now? I have decided to use the extra stimulation to study my machine learning book  8)

I'm going to make splits work. They need care obviously - but the advantages are there. I did 55 reps of squatting yesterday, the next day my legs are recovered. Why? Because I only did lower body yesterday - my body recovers much more efficiently when I don't do full body workouts. It just means the next day I can't go and set an upper body PR. But that's ok, I don't have to set a PR the next day. I can set it on another day when i'm fresher. Will make this work   :headbang:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 16, 2012, 07:25:03 am
RE: sprinting vs jumping

I realised today that I like the idea of sprinting fast than I do about jumping high. Jumping high is something you do to impress other people I think. But running fast is something you do for yourself, no one else cares  or will ever care about your sprint times, only you do. It's a purer goal.

I haven't looked very hard but I came across this table of data:

(http://i.imgur.com/AfAnu.png)

I didn't realise my goal of getting under 4s was so close to worth class, at least by 1992 standards. Now i'm even more keen to achieve it, especially considering how difficult it may prove to be.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on October 16, 2012, 07:54:32 am
Yeh i like running as well coz it's more goal orientated for my sport (rugby). That's a cool chart showing the splits. It's interesting to contrast the differences between the sprinters. Even though Carl Lewis came last in that chart you can see from the chart how good his top speed is.
60-100m
Linford Christie 3.42
Carl Lewis 3.43
Andre Carson 3.49
Dennis Mitchell 3.53
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 16, 2012, 02:21:26 pm
damn. Was working late and just finished up now i'm starving. Makes it hard because have plenty of left overs from a family thing over the weekend. Cake, pasta etc. Have to go without, otherwise i'll have to diet mo days. sigh. on cravings I brought a packet of salted peanuts into my bedroom and i was tempted to finish but forced myself to cram it inside an empty bottle of stimulants. That should keep it fresh and once i'm done cutting im gonna devour it.

sleeping hungry for the win .. but < 175 by monday will be worth it
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- now under 80kg and 175lb
Post by: entropy on October 17, 2012, 12:49:11 am
Got an overnight whoosh, under 80kg now! Have decided to revise my goal of 175 to 174 since i'll achieve the <175 goal 5 days early. I actually like the idea of finishing up under 79kg than leaving it as 79.3 anyway so this is great.

(http://i.imgur.com/wGwjv.png)

BW: 79.6kg / 175.49lb

It's funny. When i started cutting I thought i'd be ripped by 80kg. It now looks more likely it will happen around 75kg. I don't mind, it means I can gain a whole 5kg (11lb) of mass and still only be 80kg. Will be a beast at 80kg once i'm done cutting and bulking.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d3
Post by: entropy on October 17, 2012, 07:31:09 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 1x90, 2x80
BS 3x90, 3x97.5, 5x92.5, 6x90, 8x85(PR), 10x80 (PR)

CU 5xBW, 8xBW (PR)
PU 2xBW PU (new exercise, lol.. might have to use bands on pullups til i get better at them, will see)
CURLZ 2x8x30, 1x8x25

SSTM -  1 incline, 2.6km, 20 mins

FS notes:
Next weds don't go heavy just get some volume in and quickly go to backsquats. Otherwise good day, the 110 was rather ugly but i wrestled it up all the same.

Note to self, when squatting a hard rep, after the bounce out of the hole, think bring hips forward. this will save getting bent over. and then just squeeze it out with quads, nice and simple. try that next time with a PR weight.

BS notes:
Two things. I realised a) I have a sticking point, and related b)when I hit the sticking point, i relax my quads, and let my back round, allow the weight to lean me forward. Then i leave it to my much stronger back and glutes to take over.

The sticking point is very much real. And it's the reason my backsquat hasn't done much for my front squat AND VICE VERSA. vice versa you ask? Why yes. Check it. I front squatted 115kg. I'm struggling with backsquats around 100kg. How can it be? Because of the sticking point see. When I hit it, instead of pushing thru with my quads, i don't. This means all the leg strength i've build using front squats does not transfer to the backsquat. But i'm on it now - this will be addressed quick time. Newbie gains to the rescue.

Exactly a month ago when I was deep into my high bar squatting experiment I was going deeper and I had great form at least to the naked eye. Maybe the camera doesn't show everything, it's possible my knees were hurting but it makes me wonder if I gave up on high bar too soon. Maybe I can find a way to improve knee impact for hb as I have achieved with fs. And it's possible I can improve form so it's safer too. Maybe the sticking point that shows itself in my pc dominant squats is also there for hb and if it's removed/fixed then hb form and safety will too. These are all possibilities I should consider.

Conditioning notes:
Damn i'm loving running. Kicking myself for not doing it earlier. I put the incline on 1 because 2 sucks lol. It took me 15:22 to run 2km, i think a good goal for next time is 3km in 20 mins. Once i get that, i'll try get 4km in 25 and finally work up to 5km in 20-25 mins. That will be good enough for my purposes I think.

Another day, another 44 work squats. I must be crazy to do 40-50 reps of squatting 3x a week but that's how I roll now  8) .. unashamed squat addict
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d4
Post by: entropy on October 18, 2012, 02:33:06 am
(http://i.imgur.com/TSU0j.png)

BW: 79.2 kg / 174.61 lb

Goal achieved 4 days early. New goal is < 79/174.

I will fast 18 hours today and stick to the diet and hope i'll be under 79kg by tomorrow and l have a feeling I have PR coming up in me tomorrow in the last squat workout of the cut. That would be ace.

Possible choices for PR attempts
4x102, 4x102.5, 3x106, 3x107.5, 2x111, 2x112.5, 1x116, 1x117.5

Not sure which one of these I like my chances of best. The 117.5 would be bring me within a kilo on the bar at 1.5BW so that would be cool. But I've been working hard at the 102 the last coupla weeks and would like to see that fall (best i've got is a failed 4th rep). Realistically speaking i'm probably gonna go for the 102 but who knows what i'll end up attempting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on October 18, 2012, 02:49:53 am
I'd go for the 4x102.5 just think it's only a 500 gram difference from the 102. Plus it'll give you the confidence to knock off the heavier triples and single you want to do.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 18, 2012, 09:01:36 am
VICTORY.

 :highfive: :highfive: :highfive: :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 19, 2012, 06:03:01 am
I'd go for the 4x102.5 just think it's only a 500 gram difference from the 102. Plus it'll give you the confidence to knock off the heavier triples and single you want to do.

Sounds like a plan. I don't feel very strong today (even flexing my bicepts seems tiring lol) so I don't think i'll go for heavy maxes, just try to get that 102.5x4 and then finish up with some lighter sets. Hopefully i'll crack it this time.

VICTORY.

 :highfive: :highfive: :highfive: :highfive:

Thanks bud  :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d5
Post by: entropy on October 19, 2012, 10:56:34 am
BW = 89.2kg / 174.61 lb

Training
FS 3x102.5, 0x117.5, 4x97.5, 4x95, 4x92.5
BS 2x90, 3x100, 5x95, 6x92.5, 8x87.5, 8x82.5
BP 1x77.5, 4x80, 2x75
HIIT 7x(12s on, 13s off)

FS notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfptghp0bPg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HRO-hWOwKo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOQ-at86YYc

Went for the 4x102.5 but after the 3rd rep I just racked it, i know I wouldn't have got the 4th. Wanted a PR and decided to go for the 117.5 max, wasn't to be. On the bright side i'm 2.5kg off my PR for 3 reps and i've just got thru a long cut so i'm not too displeased with my last squat showing while cutting.

So that's that - next time I squat I won't be on a diet. I'm going to be aggressive with my front squat over the diet break. Will write a longer more detailed post on this next week.

Oh sweet, I figured out how to use avidemux to trim my videos. Will make uploading MUCH faster and it wont fill up my HD. I might write a script to go thru all my videos and trim them now. This one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz2wcAxRnBY) is only 2MB now! I think it makes it easier to focus on the lift. I usually edit my videos so they're as brief as necessary. Now they will be visually compact too.

BS notes:
Depth varies too much. I will repeat most of these sets again next time.

BP notes:
Benching after front squatting just does not work. I was prioritising front squats obviously otherwise I'd BP first. May just have to do that anyway, I don't like losing ground on bench.

Conditioning notes:
Amazing what difference 1 second makes. Last time it was almost enjoyable, this time it wasn't.

No abs or chins, too fuxxored. I squat too much.

Food

(http://i.imgur.com/ALM1J.png) (http://imgur.com/ALM1J)

Took my free meal for the week. Grilled wedges & coke. Still have two solid days of cutting left over the weekend, will be strict of course.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Rix on October 19, 2012, 12:10:34 pm
If I remember right, one of your knees used to bug you. Any issues with that recently?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 19, 2012, 12:15:18 pm
If I remember right, one of your knees used to bug you. Any issues with that recently?

Hey long time. Yeah my right knee sometimes acts up. I've kind of figured out how to keep it under control. I used to do daily treadmill walking which was a problem. But with discussing it adarqui and others I realised I wasn't well hydrated when I was doing those walks in the morning. So i've been drinking more water before fasted TM. That has helped. The inner bro-scientist things it lubricates the joints or something like that. The other thing which I think has made a difference is i've dropped the incline from 2 to 1. I just do much longer sessions now which is probably better for fat loss anyway. Like 20-40mins compared to the paltry 7-10mins I used to do.

In terms of lifting - my technique was a problem. I was bouncing off my knees at the bottom of a squat. I have fixed that now by using my self-discovered cue of bringing the bar down into my ankles. When It goes there, there is no tension on my knees and I can bounce of the hole pain free. So these two things have made a huge difference.

Forgot to mention. The other big change I made was ceasing high bar squats. I like them, just doing them AND front squats, it's a bit redundant. And together they probably beat up my knees way too much. So now I do a PC dominant squat which is much easier on the knees while continuing with front squats which I love.

Having said that, i'm going to get a pair of Rehband knee sleeves. I don't have massive robust knee joints, so for someone like me, not genetically predisposed to heavy lifting, prevention is better than regret later. So i'll get some knee sleeves and keep my knees nice and warm and secure while I do my shitload of squatting (50 reps, 3x a week!).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d6
Post by: entropy on October 20, 2012, 08:12:32 am
(http://i.imgur.com/hXQP6.png)

20 hour fast broken with a sandwich made of 5 eggs (small ones tho), 2 slices wholemeal bread. Also 2scoop whey shake in 400mL lowfat milk. A banana and half a dozen strawberries. It's pretty much dinner time lol and i'm having my brekfast.

For dinner i'll just have another shake later and get some sleep. Hopefully I got a wicked deficit today. And tomorrow we'll see what happens. I might or might not train depending on how much I want to squeeze an extra day of hard fat loss out before monday.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 21, 2012, 12:09:41 pm
Decided against the hard deficit for the last day of the cut. For the same reason I didn't train either. I wanna be fully recovered and fresh for tomorrow when I begin the next phase of becoming athletic. It's a 2 week period where I will eat maintenance calories and hold my bodyweight steady. It allows my hormones to rise and return to baseline after the long period of dieting.

I am hoping to see better performances in the gym as a result of the better hormonal milieu. I dunno if it will mean setting PRs every workout. We'll just have to see what happens.

Hopefully i've done enough to take my bw near or under 79kg / 174 lb - but we'll see what the scale says tomorrow

The plan for training is pretty simple .. loads of front squatting. Then some more back squatting. Aim to add a solid 10kg to my front squat PRs (for triples and fours) during the maintenance break. Upper body lift i will be emphasing is the weighted chinup. Will hit it heavy and often and aim to add weight aggressively as well. Don't be surprised if I end up doing a smolov with weighted chinups - i'm just that keen on the heavy chins.

So my best FS so far is:
bests: 115x1, 110x2, 105x3 and 101x4 (@ > 82kg)
goals: 125x1, 120x2, 115x3, 110x4 (@79kg)

And yea it might not be possible to add 10 kilos in 2 weeks. That's ok. If i only add 5kg, that's still awesome progress.

I dont like how I have marathon squat sessions which leave me unable to do much else. So i'm gonna split the workload as follows:
AM - heavy FS (3s and 4s), heavy BS (3s and 5s)
PM - lighter FS (4s), lighter bs (6s, 8s, 10s)

Hopefully this way the CNS shit is done when i'm fresh. The pump stuff goes later during the day.

I still wanna maintain my bench and press, so will have to figure that out somehow but it's not so important. I think the weighted chin is my preferred upper body mass and strength builder and the goal now is just to get to a decent level (think 115x3 and 120x1 @ BW < 80kg) so that when comes time to bulk, i'm not wasting my time with light shit and can just go all in for a real decent goal like weighted chins with 140kg. Realistically speaking that's much more likely than me ever benching 300 with my build (long arms, narrow shoulders, little upper body mass).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Rix on October 21, 2012, 08:26:06 pm
If I remember right, one of your knees used to bug you. Any issues with that recently?

Hey long time. Yeah my right knee sometimes acts up. I've kind of figured out how to keep it under control. I used to do daily treadmill walking which was a problem. But with discussing it adarqui and others I realised I wasn't well hydrated when I was doing those walks in the morning. So i've been drinking more water before fasted TM. That has helped. The inner bro-scientist things it lubricates the joints or something like that. The other thing which I think has made a difference is i've dropped the incline from 2 to 1. I just do much longer sessions now which is probably better for fat loss anyway. Like 20-40mins compared to the paltry 7-10mins I used to do.

In terms of lifting - my technique was a problem. I was bouncing off my knees at the bottom of a squat. I have fixed that now by using my self-discovered cue of bringing the bar down into my ankles. When It goes there, there is no tension on my knees and I can bounce of the hole pain free. So these two things have made a huge difference.

Forgot to mention. The other big change I made was ceasing high bar squats. I like them, just doing them AND front squats, it's a bit redundant. And together they probably beat up my knees way too much. So now I do a PC dominant squat which is much easier on the knees while continuing with front squats which I love.

Having said that, i'm going to get a pair of Rehband knee sleeves. I don't have massive robust knee joints, so for someone like me, not genetically predisposed to heavy lifting, prevention is better than regret later. So i'll get some knee sleeves and keep my knees nice and warm and secure while I do my shitload of squatting (50 reps, 3x a week!).

Cool, I like that bar over the ankles cue.

The reason I ask is because I have similar issues with my left knee. The majority of the problem is form for me. I've taught myself to be so quad dominant since I started squatting it's a real battle to get the PC working. It sounds stupid because it's so obvious but I really have to focus on getting my hammies and glutes working. Right now, it's not natural for them to engage out of the hole, so I have a lot of work to do.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- end of cut summary
Post by: entropy on October 22, 2012, 12:58:31 am
(http://i.imgur.com/IHRA0.png)
Cutting from 5th July
BW=78.75kg / 173.834 lb

GOAL ACHIEVED!

Start: 86-87kg (~190lb), >20% bodyfat
End: 79kg (~174lb) <15% bodyfat

All in all, im happy with the results. Have got a lot leaner and lighter and i suspect i'm only a few kilos away from being at an athletic bodyfat level (~12%).

After this 2 week maintenance break, i will have time for another 6 weeks of cutting - which should permit getting to 10% mid dec.

I will post regular bodyweight updates to keep myself honest and don't let my bodyweight drift up while on the maintenance break. Feel free to yell at me if i start slipping!

I want to test my vertical and sprint time while fresh now that i'm lighter and finished cutting. May do it today but i've got a lot of work to do over the next coupla days. Sigh, we'll see if I can finish up and take an hour or two to drive down to the gym to jump. If weather permits i'll sprint today though. Failing that i'll just do it later towards the end of the week, even if I'm a bit more fatigued then. I expect to gain some rebound bodyweight after doing a carb reload though, cos i'm fairly glycogen deprived i suspect, but we'll see what happens on the scale over the next coupla daysd following the refeed (sometime today).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on October 22, 2012, 01:53:03 am
That was a great cut. Losing 7kg and losing 5+% bf is really good.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on October 22, 2012, 05:50:11 am
How did your strength evolved over all this process?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- end of cut summary
Post by: seifullaah73 on October 22, 2012, 05:54:58 am
(http://i.imgur.com/IHRA0.png)
Cutting from 5th July
BW=78.75kg / 173.834 lb

GOAL ACHIEVED!

Start: 86-87kg (~190lb), >20% bodyfat
End: 79kg (~174lb) <15% bodyfat

All in all, im happy with the results. Have got a lot leaner and lighter and i suspect i'm only a few kilos away from being at an athletic bodyfat level (~12%).

After this 2 week maintenance break, i will have time for another 6 weeks of cutting - which should permit getting to 10% mid dec.

I will post regular bodyweight updates to keep myself honest and don't let my bodyweight drift up while on the maintenance break. Feel free to yell at me if i start slipping!

I want to test my vertical and sprint time while fresh now that i'm lighter and finished cutting. May do it today but i've got a lot of work to do over the next coupla days. Sigh, we'll see if I can finish up and take an hour or two to drive down to the gym to jump. If weather permits i'll sprint today though. Failing that i'll just do it later towards the end of the week, even if I'm a bit more fatigued then. I expect to gain some rebound bodyweight after doing a carb reload though, cos i'm fairly glycogen deprived i suspect, but we'll see what happens on the scale over the next coupla daysd following the refeed (sometime today).

Success! Great work man.  :headbang:
I really like the chart you use on your log, really helpful.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 22, 2012, 09:29:51 am
(https://cuces.soc.srcf.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1309300880715.jpg)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 22, 2012, 10:42:39 am
That was a great cut. Losing 7kg and losing 5+% bf is really good.

Success! Great work man.  :headbang:
I really like the chart you use on your log, really helpful.

(https://cuces.soc.srcf.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/1309300880715.jpg)


Thanks guys!

How did your strength evolved over all this process?

I've lifted heavier weight before on some lifts like DL and BS - but my form was quite bad back then. I set multiple PRs on most lifts that I care about (FS, RDL, weighted chinup and BP). Most people would be happy just to maintain their strength but I actually built some! I put this down to dieting moderately. Especially the last month or so of cutting I really hit my stride and was able to balance the deficit without compromising workouts. My next cut will go much more smoothly given what i've learnt in the last 4 weeks.

I've done hardcore heavy deficit diets like RFL before - but this was much better suited to maintaining and improving physical performance.


Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w4d1 (training & carb refeed)
Post by: entropy on October 22, 2012, 10:53:05 am
Training
FS 3x102.5, 1x100, 3x97.5, 4x92.5
BS 2x90, 1x97.5, 3x100, 5x95, 5x90, 8x70, 8x75

BP 3x79.5, 2x77.5, 5x75, 6x72.5, 6x70
WGBP 8x60, 7x62.5, 5x65
ABZ 8, 2x8x10

Best part of these structured diet breaks of Lyle are the carb refeeds. I am gonna try put down 500g of carbs today. Lyle says if you do it right (surplus calories w/ <50g fat, <100g sucrose, <50g fructose) - you can actually continue to burn fat because your body will preferentially shuttle incoming carbs into the muscles towards glycogen storage. This helps restore leptin levels. Here is my post workout meal which I cooked on the bbq between sets of squats

(http://i.imgur.com/scvEH.png)
300g of lean meat cooked in loads of bbq sauce and served with tomato sauce later (ie = sucrose), and 8 of these awesome bread rolls which come out to a total of 150g carbs, 30g protein and under 5g of fat.

Will wait a bit and then go bench before eating more carbs. Am thinking I will prob have pasta and milk and icecream before bed :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 23, 2012, 03:37:44 am
Oh man i had the best night of sleep in a long time. It's amazing how much the body loves carbs. I'm continuing my carb refeed (24hr long - ends in 3 hours). Today i've had about a dozen bread rolls. The macros are quite favorable, under 15g of fat. I made a mistake yesterday by eating eggs in the morning, those bitches cost me 27g of fat.

My arms seem fuller today. Legs not yet though, still look skinny, so hopefully by tomorrow they will be pumped up too.

Goal is to put down 800g of carbs in this refeed. So far i'm up to 700g ish. Almost done.

Done, sucessful carb refeed is sucess.

Aite fun and games are over, starting tomorrow im back to my usual cutting diet + some extra carbs and fats to bring up to maintenance and that's it. Im hoping i'll see better times in the gym. If I don't get some PRs soon i'm going to be heart broken :( just kidding.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w4d3
Post by: entropy on October 24, 2012, 11:38:52 am
Training
FS 1x100, 1x107.5, 1x112.5, 2x105, 1x102.5, 2x1x105
BS 2x90, 2x95, 2x100, 1x102.5, 2x1x100, 1x102.5, 1x105
WC 2x97.8, 3x97.8, 1x102.5 (+20kg! PR), 4x92.5, 3x90, 3x87.5, 5x85

FS notes:
I liked these singles. I will do more singles in the coming workouts.

BS notes:
Singles here also felt good. More of these too.

WC notes:
I did a chinup with a 20kg plate, feels good man. It's not as strict as I would like, so I wont count it officially until I do it 100% strictly.

Felt weak today. Here's to hoping friday is better.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 25, 2012, 06:00:05 am
Damn, my abs are singing in soreness like i can't remember. Weighted chins man, they're the bomb. Strangely my lats aren't bothered but forearms are sore. I'm even keener to persue the weighted chin as my main upper body exercise. Want to do weighted chins with 2x20kg plates.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w4d5
Post by: entropy on October 26, 2012, 11:20:45 am
Training
FS 5x1x107.5
BS 3x100, 5x1x105
BP 5x77.5, 5x1x80
CU 2x7xBW  (PR)
Sprint 5x30m
SVJ 1x5 (PRish range - hit 1" below the wrist on one of them)

FS notes:
Almost perfect front squats. I'm loving dem heavy singles! I have such bad form with heavier sets but singles I can manage to do a decent enough job. Do you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVBMz9FqDTA

BS notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkp7OgelSTU

Form is much improved. Lance you were right, front squats may have just rehabilitated my squatmorning tendencies! Btw can you see my sticking point? Am I always going to have that or will I be able to overcome it thru training?

BP notes:
Had a crazy idea to do singles for BP too. Why not? Will see how it pans out.

CU notes:
Sure I am a light weight now but fuck these were so easy. I was worried I'd hit my head on the roof, that's how high above the bar I was getting and easily, just flying up like it was noting. The weighted chinups are doing good things for me - watch this space.

Sprints notes:
I used nearmap to locate a new piece of ground that's exactly 30m long. This is an improvement over my usual originally estimated but consistent length of grass in the park. I'm also running on turf now as opposed to grass. I prefer grass, it's just i don't like the bumps and troughs you get on grass which might injure me if i'm going all out. Turf is kinda squishy though, wish it was the hard firm kind.

The bad news is im not close to 4s at all. I checked on nearmap and im around 5m out of the target by the time the beep goes off. On one sprint I felt that was maybe 3m out? That's heaps man. Not sure if i can realistically expect to get under 4s. Maybe if i get real lean, push my squats up, work on my sprint (more than 1x a week), and run while fresh (as opposed to the end of a weights session) - then maybe, maybe i can squeeze the gap down to 2m? Big if anyways. Lets see how close I can get, it's exciting as a goal in itself.

Jumps notes:
i'd say i'm damn close to 32" SVJ now in favorable circumstances, I suspect the park rim is slightly on the high side cos I always seem to jump higher relatively in the gym.

Goal Time:.
I see myself at the end of this year under 77kg/170lb, 10% bodyfat, 20 smooth as butter strict dead hang chinups, weighted chin with 120kg (+40kg: 2x20kg plates), front squatting 120+kg and backsquatting 130+kg. Oh and benching 100kg. While jumping 34+" SVJ and running 30m in ~4s. The only thing stopping me is my dedication. I can do this - 60 days and i'll do wonders for my athleticism, i'm at that cusp of breaking over from unathletic fatty to lean & athletic.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on October 26, 2012, 02:08:41 pm

 both squats look great man, nice work.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 27, 2012, 01:43:11 am
both squats look great man, nice work.

Means a lot. Thanks much!

Was on the dreadmill as usual punchin in my 30-40mins slow steady a day and the meter on the thing said I burned a whole 30 calories. That means it will take 6 months to burn a whole kilo of bodyfat. lol seems almost pointless. I'm hoping that figure is on the low end but realistically it's probably not far from the truth. Ah well, it's only one part of the bigger jigsaw so it's not a big deal.

I'm going to add a 4th workout a week. I like the heavy singles a lot, but if I abuse them i'll get weaker/overtrained/injured. So will do them only on fridays. Then to make up the volume i'll add an extra training day on the weekend, but i'll make sure to only train at 70% of 1RM. This should be nice and easy and will help perfect form as well, which I need to do.

Somehow training is just coming together now, before it was all a big mess with a lot of experimenting going on trying to find something that works - think that's behind me now thankfully.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on October 27, 2012, 01:51:00 am
Hey bud, I am about a month away from going on a cut.  You gave me a good advice on eating about 80% great, rather than going for 100%.  Should I focus on restricting carbs or restricting fat more.  In other words, which poison should i pick?  I am quite fat right now, with a rubber ducky around my 6 pack.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 27, 2012, 12:09:20 pm
Hey bud, I am about a month away from going on a cut.  You gave me a good advice on eating about 80% great, rather than going for 100%.  Should I focus on restricting carbs or restricting fat more.  In other words, which poison should i pick?  I am quite fat right now, with a rubber ducky around my 6 pack.

Re restricting carbs or fats - both. Sit down and work out how many calories you should be eating a day. If you don't know, get a good estimate and work with that. Take 15-20% off that to get a caloric deficit and you're left with your daily caloric goal. Say it's 2000kcal.

Next work out how much protein you should be eating - say it's 150g (1g per pound of lean mass). That means 600cal of your intake is gone towards protein, so you're left with 1400cal to split over fats and carbs. That's the only restriction that matters, how you split them up is UP TO YOU. If you need a good amount of fats in the morning so you feel full thru out the day, go for it. If you need more carbs at night to sleep better, then just do that, it'll do the job just fine.

Once you've worked out your calories and macros, draw up a breakfast, lunch and dinner. And choose foods you actually enjoy but fit your macros and calories. Some people pick super healthy foods they hate, and then they invariably find themselves avoiding sticking to them, avoid that. If you hate oatmeal don't bother, find something else you like. Then eat that every day. Sure it's boring and monotonous, but it will work. After a few months you'll have good results to show for it without needing to do anything fancy.

If you'd prefer to freestyle it as you go, measure your calories and make sure you dont go over your daily limit - that can work for some ppl too, but i've never tried that myself so I can't say much about it.

Don't fall into the trap of picking a huge deficit and then finding your workouts suck and you can't lift what you want - it's possible to progress while cutting just aim for 1-2lb weight loss per week and be dedicated (80% compliance over 3 months is better than 100% dedication that only lasts for 5 days ). Good luck get ripped man.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 27, 2012, 12:14:22 pm
Asymmetric soreness in lower body. Left glute and hamstring more than right. It's odd. It's kind of disturbing because it resembles my old chronic sciatica symptoms. I think it's because I haven't been jumping regularly, and now whenever I jump it bothers something. This happened earlier in the year too but as I was jumping and playing ball regularly, it went away and seems i've got that imbalance back from quitting basketball/jumping. I should do jumps regularly I think, even if they are submax, maybe throw them into workouts with a bit more frequency but little volume.

I had this dream last night that when I jump, I don't use both of my legs, and in the dream I used my right leg too and I was sailing over the rim dunking with ease. Was a cool dream, note to self think about jumping with both legs see if it helps lol.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 27, 2012, 05:26:00 pm
were they running double-leg jumps? when i first started practicing them a lot i got asymmetrical soreness/aches because i always plant LR. left hip ended up feeling wonky. but it went away with time and i do enough bilateral stuff that i'm not worried about it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 28, 2012, 02:52:30 am
were they running double-leg jumps? when i first started practicing them a lot i got asymmetrical soreness/aches because i always plant LR. left hip ended up feeling wonky. but it went away with time and i do enough bilateral stuff that i'm not worried about it.

Thank you. I don't do max running jumps on concrete, it's asking for ankle trouble. All I did were a few double leg SVJs. I get what you are saying though, if i was doing running jumps I do prefer to plant right leg first and then jump off left leg and it's important that to have ruled that out as the source of trouble since I didn't do any rvjs.

I think even in squats i'm left side dominant, not so much in front squats which are more symmetric but in backsquats. i have been working consciously on pushing with the right leg in backsquats because it's usually happy to just chill and go along for the ride given by the left leg. I might be unconsciously doing the same thing in jumping too. I wonder.

Last night I did my usual array of hip, glute and ham stretches which I do whenever i'm having problems. This morning I feel much better thankfully. I should probably do a few jumps regularly now to loosen up the imbalance and keep things nice and mobile. And regular stretches might not be a bad idea either, i tend to stop doing them when things feel good.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w4d7
Post by: entropy on October 28, 2012, 11:37:21 am
Training (Active recov)
FS 5x20, 5x40, 3x60, 3x70, 1x72.5
BS 5x60, 1x80
BP 8x20, 5x50, 5x55
CU 2x5xBW

BW=79.2kg

Nice and light and easy. Next week add 1 set to each exercise.

Added the 4th training day. So now i don't go longer than 1 day between squats. No more than 1 day between presses and chinups either (i will be doing them every workout). More frequency = better recovery, less soreness, CNS fatigue and beating up joints. Hopefully better gains too. We'll see.

My goal was to use 70% on the lifts, but that was kinda too heavy today for some reason. I mean I could have done it of course (it's ONLY 70%) but i didn't wanna push it at the expense of tomorrows workout which is important and this one is just a recovery one.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 29, 2012, 05:46:14 am
Feel weak today, i'm drinking water to try to hydrate better but think i might have to go get some gatorade from the shops. Have had about 2L of water so far. Will probably work out late tonight, i just wanna make sure im well hydrated first. Life is so much easier when you are downing a gallon of milk a day, would probably hydrate like a motherfucker with all that sodium, potassium, calcium, carbs and of course the gallon of fluid itself. But I can't drink much milk right now so will have to settle for sugar water instead.

Once i'm nice and lean i'll be able to handle a lot more calories without getting fat. This cut has really opened my eyes how over weight I was with respect to my lean mass. I had no business at all hitting ANY caloric surplus while weighing 85+kg - that was just a recipe for getting fat as fuck. But once i drop my weight down to a lean 10%, i'll have a better p-ratio and partioning of surpluses will better for mass gain. Realistically I shuda been around 73-75kg all along.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w5d1
Post by: entropy on October 29, 2012, 12:00:26 pm
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 3x1x102.5, 2x1x100, 4x95, 4x92.5, 4x90
BS 2x90, 1x100, 3x102.5, 5x95, 6x92.5, 7x90 (PR), 10x85 (PR)
BP 1x75, 6x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 5x72.5 (WG), 5x70, 6x67.5
CU 6,6,6,5 x BW
ABZ - 3 sets of ab pulldowns

Hydrated a lot. Over 3L of fluid thru the day. Gatorade worked like magic. Water just goes thru me but gatorade stuck around. Milk too.

FS notes:
Kinda forgot how to do front squats but rediscovered it again on the last set. It's go forward (paradoxical rite? you think the opposite). but at the bottom bring it back into the ankles (my cue). Remember this for next time ffs!  Otherwise good session. Was weak as a kitten but I made do.

BS notes:
Form is getting better every time. I'm tapping into some newbie gains here w/ new form, watch this space!

BP notes:
going thru the motions.. my chest has gotten flabby since i stopped doing heavy wige grips so remember to go heavy on friday with those.

Chins notes:
Just clocking up the volume
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- thoughts on athleticism and front squatting
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 06:11:57 am
Thinking about front squats and athleticism and my experience with the lift so far. I think a good minimum for an athlete might be 1.5*BW - in fact that's probably too easy because a good athlete would be around 10-12% bodyfat and 1.5*BW isn't a big deal. But like I said minimum.

A 80kg athlete who is lean would need to front squat 120kg at a minimum, i'd say 140kg or 3 plates would be a decent front squat for a lean 80kg athlete. Incidentally 140kg is 1.75xBW which I have put down as my training goal for the medium term.

While i am around 80kg right now, that minimal goal of 120kg is just beyond my current reach annoyingly.  But i'm not a lean athlete, im a fat unathletic guy who happens to weigh an overfat 80kg. If I was 10-12% my bodyweight with my lean mass I would be around 74-77kg (guessing here) and that would mean a 1.5BW minimum front squat would be in the range 110-115kg, which I have done already. So if I keep my current maxes and diet down to ~75kg, i'd easily have a minimal 1.5BW front squat but because i'm overfat it counts against me because for my current weight the minimal front squat is just out of my reach.

It's interesting how good the front squat is in informing me about my (lack of) athleticism. I don't think 120kg is hard by any means for someone my bodyweight, it should be easy for someone who is a lean 80kg. That's why I call it minimum.

If I was to speculate - a great athlete would have an easy 2BW front squat. For someone lean and 80kg -  160kg sounds about right at a minimum and this goes up to 180kg for a 90kg athlete. A 90kg lean athlete would be a genetic beast though and 180kg would be nothing for such a person but a great long term goal for someone who wishes to be athletic..

Going forward supposing I finish the cut to 10% in the next 2-3 months and i'm then 75kg @ 10%, front squatting around 115-120kg. That's an easy 1.5bw going on 1.6bw. So not a bad place to start gaining athleticism (as opposed to shedding unathleticism by cutting bodyfat). So now i have great insulin sensitivity thanks to low bodyfat, i'm allowed to gain a solid 5kg of mass while staying at or below my max bodyweight limit of 80kg. I can train at a surplus as opposed to the deficit i've been on for the last 6-12 months. Gaining 20-25kg on my front squat while allowing up to 5kg weight gain seems like a sure bet. I mean if anything I'd say it should be fucking trivial really - challenging would be adding that 20kg to the bar while trying to stay under 77kg say.

The thing is though im not going to fall into the trap of gaining a lot of bodyweight quickly just to easily progress my lifts. Because it's utterly useless to me to gain 20-25kg on my squat if it means having gaining 5kg of fat. That doesn't help my athleticism in any way - and then getting rid of that extra fat would take a lot of cutting which i would rather avoid. I think my chances are good of being ~13% bodyfat if I do gain 5kg from 75kg to 80kg provided I gain them over a period of a few months rather than weeks. My main goal wont even be to gain mass - it's to become more athletic, ie to push the lifts up while staying lean. In future i will take a break from strength and athleticism and train purely for mass gain - i would like to be a lean 85kg one day and there is a place for mass specific training. But in the meantime, i'd prefer to be a maximally strong 77kg front squatting over 140kg than a fat 80kg @ 15% bodyfat with the same lifts.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 09:32:00 am
Future bulk layout

Back to my plans for world domination, one heavy single at a time..

this is a better, actually conservative one

(http://i.imgur.com/kPdWe.png)

What I dont like about it though is how it's linear. Linear is probably bullshit. The human body doesn't work in a neat straight line. Maybe in reality the first 10kg on the bar will go up with only 1kg of bodyweight gain. Or maybe they'll need 3kg, and the last 15kg will need 1kg. Who knows how it goes, it sure doesn't have to be linear and i am betting it won't be for me.

But if at any stage I find myself slipping away from that dark line - it means i'm getting unathletic. So at least it gives a way of checking if i'm on the right track or not. So long as i am on or above the line, all is good. If I fall below, it is probably worth getting my bodyfat in check. I'll be updating the graph with my actual numbers as I go along.

If I am being optimistic i might be finishing the cut at 75kg @ 10% and perhaps  with a front squat 120+kg. That would put me with a starting ratio of 1.6 which makes the above the graph rather pessimistic but we'll what happens once i've finished the cut. It's rather dubious to conjecture so far out from 10% when my PR is only 115kg. But suppose I chance upon the magic combination of training and the heavy singles carry me all the way to 120x5x1 then it might just be a reality. A girl can surely dream.

And that's all i'm saying on that topic.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on October 31, 2012, 09:38:28 am
(http://i.imgur.com/t1UyB.png)
Horizontal axis is bodyweight, vertical axis is front squat weight.

Graphical representation of what I wanna achieve with my front squat after finishing cutting to 10% bodyfat (~75kg). The first cross will be my starting point (conservatively) and the 2nd cross is where I want to end up.

So my goal will be to catch up to that 1.7bw line first of all. And lastly to catch up to the 1.75bw line.

Hey how come it seems like you are focusing on front squat rather than back squat?  Is it because you are more posterior chain dominant rather than quad?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 11:39:00 am
Hey how come it seems like you are focusing on front squat rather than back squat?  Is it because you are more posterior chain dominant rather than quad?

Im just a much better front squatter and a poor backsquatter. I like front squats more than back squats. Both to perform and to watch. I have a bad sticking point with back squats which prevents me from doing them well with a lot of weight. When my form breaks down with backsquats with even moderate weights, its very dangerous and unsafe. I train alone and even with limit front squats I can fail safely without risking injury, just ride them down to the pins, no problems. With backsquats i'd get bent over it would put my back in a precarious position prone to injury, no thank you, esp when i've got a history of chronic sciatica behind me that I don't want to invoke anew.

The other thing is my fs and bs are very close together. Some people can handle a lot of weight on the back than front, i am not one of those. So I don't gain much from putting the bar on my back as opposed to on my chest. I lose some, form and safety, so the trade off just isn't there for me to focus on backsquats.

Lance thinks my backsquat turns itno a squat morning because i learnt to backsquat badly (hip driven) so front squat acts to remedy that tendency. I have found him to be right about this after focusing on front squats and seeing my squat mornings turn into nicer back squats.

Re pc dominant vs quads, honestly i have no clue. lance thinks i need more quad strength and i'm inclined to agree with him because i've noticed my quads not powering me out of the latter half of squats (both fs and bs). And my hamstring strength sucks for that matter, which is another reason i do backsquats - as an assistance exercise to help strenghten and build hamstrings & lower back. If i were to guess i'd say im very glute dominant, i power out of the hole easily.

did i mention i love front squats? lol. i think they're a purer exercise, a better test of athleticism. I've heard guys like Joe Defranco and the venerable yo elliot say the same thing so it must be true  8)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 31, 2012, 11:41:49 am
the only pure exercise is the snatch. all other exercises are unclean to some degree.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w5d3
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 11:53:59 am
Training
FS 1x100, 4x93.5, 5x90
BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x105, 5x97.5, 6x95, 7x90
WCU 3x97.5 (+15kg), 2x100 (+17.5kg), 2x98.75 (+16.25kg), 1x102.5 (+20kg, PR!!!), 1x103.75 (+21.25kg PR!), 4x92.5 (+10kg), 4x90 (+7.5kg), 5x87.5 (+5kg), 5x85 (+2.5kg)

BW: 80kg

Decided to save myself for fridays front squats heavy singles so only did 3 sets of not heavy front squats. Finished with some backsquats which were not as good as I would have liked considering i wasn't exhausted from front squatting as usual.

FS notes:
Form sucked, didn't have a clue what I was doing today.

BS notes:
I started off well with the first warmup feeling very light on backsquats (probably cos i am a lot fresher than usual). But i'm really disappointed with backsquats. The depth just wasn't there today. I dont know why, i will repeat these sets next time.

Chins notes:
Got the +20kg chinup today, feels good man. Was 100% strict and not all that hard. I will probably start doing singles on this lift too. I reckon i am not far from 105kg w/ singles, and in a few months time I can expect to be close to my goal of 120kg chinups (+2x20kg plates).

Bring on friday, looking forward to doing front squat singles with 110kg!!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 12:13:58 pm
the only pure exercise is the snatch. all other exercises are unclean to some degree.

I would agree that the snatch is the purest exercise. I would argue the front squat is the purest squat though. Well maybe just edged out by the squat morning..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4

A nice deep upright front squat is a pretty sight.

compare and contrast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_1OgTgYqM

uggers
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on October 31, 2012, 12:24:37 pm
Hey how come it seems like you are focusing on front squat rather than back squat?  Is it because you are more posterior chain dominant rather than quad?

Im just a much better front squatter and a poor backsquatter. I like front squats more than back squats. Both to perform and to watch. I have a bad sticking point with back squats which prevents me from doing them well with a lot of weight. When my form breaks down with backsquats with even moderate weights, its very dangerous and unsafe. I train alone and even with limit front squats I can fail safely without risking injury, just ride them down to the pins, no problems. With backsquats i'd get bent over it would put my back in a precarious position prone to injury, no thank you, esp when i've got a history of chronic sciatica behind me that I don't want to invoke anew.

The other thing is my fs and bs are very close together. Some people can handle a lot of weight on the back than front, i am not one of those. So I don't gain much from putting the bar on my back as opposed to on my chest. I lose some, form and safety, so the trade off just isn't there for me to focus on backsquats.

Lance thinks my backsquat turns itno a squat morning because i learnt to backsquat badly (hip driven) so front squat acts to remedy that tendency. I have found him to be right about this after focusing on front squats and seeing my squat mornings turn into nicer back squats.

Re pc dominant vs quads, honestly i have no clue. lance thinks i need more quad strength and i'm inclined to agree with him because i've noticed my quads not powering me out of the latter half of squats (both fs and bs). And my hamstring strength sucks for that matter, which is another reason i do backsquats - as an assistance exercise to help strenghten and build hamstrings & lower back. If i were to guess i'd say im very glute dominant, i power out of the hole easily.

did i mention i love front squats? lol. i think they're a purer exercise, a better test of athleticism. I've heard guys like Joe Defranco and the venerable yo elliot say the same thing so it must be true  8)

yeah I tend to be the opposite.  I can't seem to get the front squat correct.  it hurts my collar bone.  Same with doing a hang clean.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on October 31, 2012, 12:43:39 pm
I like the front squat myself ( although i cant get it right , maybe now with lifting shoes ) , and i've also read that you get the form right ( which is the main problem ) its more 'functional' than back squat.
Having said that, the compare videos are terribly biased, you can't compare a submax 5-reps 200kg raw front squat with powerlifting meet sutied 350+ kg back squats.
Any day's video of your FS vs BS would be convincing and unbiased enough! ;)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 12:46:21 pm
I like the front squat myself and i've also read that you get the form right ( which is the main problem ) its more 'functional' than back squat.
Having said that, the compare videos are terribly biased, you can't compare someone a submax 5-reps 200kg raw front squat with powerlifting meet sutied 350+ kg back squats.
Any day's video of your FS vs BS would be convincing and unbiased enough! ;)

lol vag I did that on purpose .. (playing chess 2 moves ahead ;) !)

so now i show you a big fat guy doing a limit front squat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkSN3f-a3Ok

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMBsGbWBlX8

still purty to me :) check mate!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on October 31, 2012, 12:49:24 pm
To be fair reza has a nice back squat too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuaESO6c63M

but i'd argue it's because it's closer to a fs being a hb and all

pat's limit bs looks good too (on account of it being deep and upright)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7m6I5m6gY

Just a bit of fun, everyone gets to choose their own favorite lifts of course  :D
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on October 31, 2012, 12:54:01 pm
Well played kind sir , well played !  :trolldance:  :lololol:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on October 31, 2012, 01:00:20 pm
for the record, i was definitely joking.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 02, 2012, 11:37:25 am
Training
FS 5x1x110
BS 5x1x107.5
BP 5x1x82.5
BCU 2x7

BW: 79.5kg / 175.27lb

Weather did not permit sprinting or jumping.



Maintenance break is over as of yesterday, back to cutting. This phase will be 6 weeks long with the concrete aim of reaching 75kg/165lb @ 10% bodyfat. The majority of weight loss will happen in the first 4 weeks though. I want to get down to 11% by the end of November.

Training will be focused around progressing heavy singles on fridays.

(http://i.imgur.com/GsDsp.png)

If my estimates are correct, i am roughly 15% now (i could be more but my reasoning is due to my abs poking thru fat, all hours of the day unflexed. This might just mean I have big abs and am actually over 15% but if visible abs mean anything maybe i am even below 15. Maybe 14% but i'm being conservative since most people understimate their bodyfat. We'll find out by 1st December anyways.

Aite, lets do dis shit.


Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on November 02, 2012, 01:34:33 pm
visible abs all day = you're out to lunch if you think you're still at 15%. unless you have some really weird fat distribution. i have blurry but visible abs and my guess is i'm around 12%.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 02, 2012, 01:53:25 pm
visible abs all day = you're out to lunch if you think you're still at 15%. unless you have some really weird fat distribution. i have blurry but visible abs and my guess is i'm around 12%.

But we train - so abs are going to be more developed than someone who doesn't? That means abs begin to show up much earlier and w/ higher bodyfat than usual! On the internet I just assume everyone is much fatter than they say/think - so if you ask me, you're probably a muscular 15% :P

I could easily lose 10lb though so I doubt i'm much lower than 15%. I don't mind if am under 15% though, it means less time cutting lol. Lets see what happens, will know for sure when leaner. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 05, 2012, 12:44:40 am
(http://i.imgur.com/gAcuE.png)

Ok so the plans to end the maintenance break early just did not happen. I got off to a great start on the cut the first 4 days - but my sister flew over unexpected on the weekend and I took her out to lunch yesterday and we ended up eating too much so the weekend was a writeoff. Having said that, I did manage to squeeze in 36 hours of fasting in there but still, it doesn't count when you eat 2500kcal in one meal lol.

So lets start over and get back on track. In 7 days time I want to be under 78kg / 172 lb.

Beast mode enabled.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w6d1
Post by: entropy on November 05, 2012, 01:41:03 am
Somewhere in a book or magazine, I read about this old school british guy who did the overhead press everyday. I think it was every day. It might have been every other day but I distinctly remember it being daily which is what made it remarkable. Anyway so each time he did the exercise he'd add only a tiny/neglible amount of weight to the bar. Like less than a pound. After a year or so, he was pressing some beastly amount. I hate doing heavy presses now and get lazy and stop doing them when I cant be bothered. But i was thinking about that man adding a tiny amount of weight each time, just getting in the reps daily.

Would like to try something like this - ohp 3-4x a week, low volume, high freq, low intensity.

So the last coupla days ive been doing presses 2x5 with a light weight, and adding a bit of weight. Lets see how long I can keep it up and what sort of gains if any come from it.

Btw i'm going to chase a 85x5 wide grip bp in the next coupla months - hopefully it will build some chest mass which I'll need to bench 120kg later on in a competition with mutambo.


Training
OHP 2x5x45
BP 6x78.5, 6x76, 6x75, 5x76 (WG), 4x74.5, 4x72.5

FS 1x100, 1x105, 4x100, 4x97.5, 4x95, 4x92.5
BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x107.5, 5x97.5, 6x95, 8x90 (PR!), 10x85 (PR!)
SSAT 2km, 16:51  (next time bump to 7.7 kph and for 20 mins)

That's 52 reps of squats. Felt good.

FS notes:
Am not liking that last rep of the 4s - it gets ugly towards the end of the set. Will keep working on it.

BS notes:
A few reps towards the end of the sets were just parallel but I figure as long as i'm progressing it's not a big problem. The way I see it, those reps make me strong too, just in a different way. Eventually I want to get say a deep 10x100 but it wont hurt if at that time I am also doing 3x130 just to parallel.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on November 05, 2012, 03:18:05 am
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts/methods on BMR & TDEE calculation.
There is a relevant thread here : http://www.adarq.org/nutrition-supplementation/exrx-calorie-requirement-calculator/
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 06, 2012, 01:28:47 am
Only 1 day into the originally planned cut - my metabolism is  revving at high speed from the hormonal reset of the maintenance break. I'm gonna make the most out of it by keeping a solid deficit and just dropping bodyfat quickly before metabolism adapts and ramps down.

I hate cutting, hate being to unable to sleep from hunger in bed but will suck it up and get it over with. 1 2 day done, 41 40 to go.

At some point I will need to take stimulants to get by but I can't be bothered ordering any yet.

Check my sig for a link to the post I will be updating in future rather than cluttering up the log with new bodycomp posts every time.

I am starting to feel that I wont even be lean at 75kg. Wish I knew what bodyfat was, sigh. Whatever the case I will keep cutting and see what reality has in store.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w6d3
Post by: entropy on November 07, 2012, 09:39:57 am
Training
OHP 2x5x47.5, 8x40
WCU 2x101, 2x98.5, 2x98, 1x103, 2x1x105 (+25kg, PR)

FS 5x92.5, 5x94.5 (PR)
BS 3x110, 5x100
jumps (5svjs, 5 rvjs)
HIIT 7x 10on,12off

BW: 78.1kg / 172.18lb (new low bw)

Some PRs today. Technically nearly every workset is a PR because i've never lifted before at this bodyweight - but they aren't lifetime PRs so I wont count them.

FS notes:
I had trouble keeping a flat back b/c was experimenting with a new technique but I will abandon it due to imperfect form.

BS notes:
Depth is improving, but I will repeat the triple next time since the form was a bit off for the last rep. The 5 was ok.

WCU notes:
Didn't go for the 25 reps today - have decided to split volume and intensity up. Will start next week. Btw I am digging these heavy singles. Will persue them exclusively now.

I'm gonna mess around with some inclined benches and arm work now, just cos I feel like it but wont log them. Til next time, tada.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w6d5
Post by: entropy on November 09, 2012, 06:21:26 am
Training
OHP 2x5x47.5
BP 5x1x85 (PR)

FS 5x1x112.5 (PR)
BS 5x1x115 (PR)

BW=79.3kg

Fasted today = Bad training.

Pressing Notes:
Employed Lance's bench cues. Not sure how I feel about it yet because these were heavy as motherufucka on account of my fasting nonsense.

FS Notes:
Form was horrid.

BS notes:
Each rep was very demanding - but my form held up surprisingly.

That's it, no abs, and no cardio, it got too late.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w6d5
Post by: vag on November 10, 2012, 06:39:43 am
Pressing Notes:
Employed Lance's bench cues.

Link?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w7d1
Post by: entropy on November 12, 2012, 08:41:43 am
Training
OHP 2x5x50
BP 5x79.5, 6x77.5, 6x75, 5x77 (WG), 5x75, 5x72.5

FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x107.5, 2x102, 1x100, 2x97.5, 4x95, 4x92.5, 4x90
BS 3x90, 2x100, 2x100, 2x95, 5x92.5, 6x90, 8x87.5

BW: 78.6kg / 173.28lb

Pressing notes:
OHP is going ok so far. Will be switching to 1.5kg jumps now, for maybe one or two workouts and then it's going to be 1kg.

For BP - intensity is kinda higher than ideal for volume. I wanna push my topset up to 80x6 and then i'll be content to keeping intensity below that and just getting the reps in.

FS notes:
Balls. New cue is a game changer. Another piece in the squat jigsaw falls into place. Form is approaching that of a kingfisher or a LBSS if I am so bold. But I can't lift as much weight FOR REPS with the new technique although I suspect I can max a bit more now. FOR NOW this is an acceptable tradeoff. I DONT CARE! - i finally have pretty form!!

Will build back to PRs pointedly while observing the new technique and maintaining form.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxSWAgJo8K4

BS notes:
Squatmorningnomore, see fs notes, same thing applies. I employed a super effective cue today and was so excited to try it out, actually had dreams about itl all weekend waiting breathlessly to squat. lol.

I could have lifted a lot more weight but my (R) hamstrings were not interested. It just felt really sore and strange. I think I should have got that active recovery in over the weekend, but part of the reason might be with the new form, my hams are loaded more and this shows up a weakness.

Reminds me of something LcMcD once said that if you want to stretch out hamstrings, then make sure your back is arched. And if you want to stretch your back, make sure your hamstrings are relaxed and your back is rounded. That guy is a smart motherfucker.


No abs today. No cardio today. I could do cardio but I wanna see what muscles are sore tomorrow and cardio might muddle the causality.

Absolutely destroyed from squatting. It was all leg work today, no more strong lower back compensation for bad technique. After my last set of squats I had to lie down and just get my breath back. Felt like 5 minutes at least.

And I did stupid fasting today again so lifts were much harder than necessary. But I wanna get under 77kg by next Monday morning so that's the main thing. I barely ate anything today just some protein shakes. I will be very hungry this week - losing 2kg in a week kind of makes that unavoidable.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on November 13, 2012, 02:40:24 pm
crazy depth.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 14, 2012, 05:11:23 am
crazy depth.

ATG dats how we do  :lololol:

Btw what was sore after those squats? Hams, glutes, quads and lower back. Keep in mind i squat all the time, so I don't expect soreness but there it was all the same. Good sign.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w7d3
Post by: entropy on November 14, 2012, 05:25:18 am
Training
OHP 2x5x51
WCU 3xBW, 2x84.5, 1x89.5, 1x94.5, 1x99.5, 1x107 (+27.5kg; PR), 3x2x99.5 (+20kg), 3x94.5, 45x89.5, 5x87, 5x84.5, 8xBW (79.5; not PR see notes)

FS 5x92.5, 3x95, 5x90
BS 6x97.5, 6x92.5
SSTM 15 mins, 2km (next time bump to 8kph and 20 mins)

BW: 78.4kg / 172.84lb

OHP notes:
This lift is fuck of fuck. It's 15kg (!) below my 5rep PR but it felt hard. It doesn't help I am doing fasted training but whatevers. I will take 0.5kg jumps now.

WCU notes:
I think I did something like 30 weighted reps whch was the goal. The last set is not a PR because I didn't dead hangs nor strict so not PR, just went for arm pump but then remembered i have to squat later and need fresh abs so stopped. After squatting I may go for the arm pump chins again but probably not.

FS notes:
I picked the wrong weight for the 2nd set, should have gone for 90kg rather than being ambitious and going for the PR of 95x5. I could have got that 5 but it would have been ugly/grindy. Form was good.

BS notes:
Good form. Accidentally did 6x97.5 when I was supposed to 5 reps. But i'll take it. Next week will go for 100x6 and 105x5 with the new (solid) technique.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on November 14, 2012, 09:56:59 am
low back soreness might be related to your butt tucking at the very bottom. you don't NEED to go that low, you're way past parallel before the butt tuck starts. i notice more soreness when i can feel the tuck happen during squats (well, it hasn't happened in a long time but i remember it).

still, looks/feels cool to be true ATG.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 14, 2012, 10:09:32 am
low back soreness might be related to your butt tucking at the very bottom. you don't NEED to go that low, you're way past parallel before the butt tuck starts. i notice more soreness when i can feel the tuck happen during squats (well, it hasn't happened in a long time but i remember it).

still, looks/feels cool to be true ATG.

It may be related but I don't think so. Actually normally I don't maintain the lower back arch out of the hole in both FS & BS. That last workout was the first time I managed to fix that by holding the arch throughout the eccentric by employing a new cue. That alone might be reason for the soreness b/c in the past i'd have relaxed the lb after the concentric but now i'm novelty working the lower back harder to maintain a rigid spine. It's funny because in the past LB would have to work harder to GM/SqM the weight back into my body.

I hear ya about depth. I think my backsquat as opposed to fs is just to parallel or slightly below. I would like slightly more depth there but i def don't go too deep on BS and prob never will because i'm just not that flexible yet. When I started doing FS they weren't very deep and now I can go ATG. Maybe I will be able to go a lot deeper with BS but my hamstrings tighten up and limit depth there whereas with FS I can just go as deep as I like because hams don't limit rom.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w7d5
Post by: entropy on November 16, 2012, 03:45:40 am
Training
OHP 2x5x52
BP 5x1x87 (PR)

FS 3x1x115 (PR)
BS 3x90, 2x100

HIIT 6x10onx13off (ow lawd)

BW: 78.6kg / 173.28lb

FS notes:
FS burnt me out. Form was bad on account of near limit tonnage. On the bright side I equalled my old 1RM and used the same weight for 3 singles while weighing ~4kg (9lb) less so that's the silver lining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6BNWqzz4Wk

But damn I haven't hard to work this hard for 5 reps before, these were very difficult. I failed the 4th, there was no way I could stand up with it and just left it on the pins, wanted 5 total. Guess it was just all I was good for today.

update. oh crap i know why i failed it. the eccentric was too fast. i shud go slower. also i will do heavy partials from near the top. im ok coming out of the hole now. that used to be a problem but it's good enough atm. have to nail down the last 1/4. experienced folk - do you concur?

BS notes:
Heavy BS singles planned did not take place, I was late for a dinner meeting so left it there. Am disappointed but what can you do, cutting happens.

From here, I guess I will have to prioritise FS or BS - I can't hope to advance them both in the same workout. That sucks but recovery is very limited right now and I have been sore in the hips, hams and quads lately even after rest days so something has to give.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 16, 2012, 08:52:52 am
hey lance or andrew can you give me some tips for how to schedule fs and bs w/o grinding myself into dust? Atm i do the following program while reversehypertrophing:-


mon
FS 4RM, 4RM (-2.5kg), 4RM(-5kg), 4RM (-7.5kg),
BS 5RM, 6RM, 8RM, 10RM

weds
FS 2x~5RM
BS 5xRM, 6RM

fri
FS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)
BS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)

and i've hit a brick wall with this, am sore and beaten up (joints, ligaments etc) and burnt out cns'ly and kind of dread squatting now

will be cutting for another 4wks btw hoping to get sub 75kg/165lb ..
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 16, 2012, 10:59:53 am
update. oh crap i know why i failed it. the eccentric was too fast. i shud go slower. also i will do heavy partials from near the top. im ok coming out of the hole now. that used to be a problem but it's good enough atm. have to nail down the last 1/4. experienced folk - do you concur?

re: partial (front) squats .. (reading up it appears the technical term is concentric squat)

come to think of it that's a similar prob with my backsquat too except it manifests itself there as a sticking point. with fs tho, i kinda let my upper back round so i can hug the bar and then good morning it horizontally back into me and then once i've got the bar position, i push my hips thru.

here is how it shud go - from that sticking point, hips shud be going thru fwds while the bar is going up. this will bring the bar horizontally back into the body simultaneously while the bar rises. but atm this isn't happening. what happens is i have two seperate distinct horizontal and vertical motion components in succession

i might just spend a few weeks hammering out that sticking point by using partials and see how it carries over to the full rom exercises. ive never done partials before but this sounds like a good time to start.

can't wait to try this out next week  :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on November 17, 2012, 11:16:21 pm
hey lance or andrew can you give me some tips for how to schedule fs and bs w/o grinding myself into dust? Atm i do the following program while reversehypertrophing:-


mon
FS 4RM, 4RM (-2.5kg), 4RM(-5kg), 4RM (-7.5kg),
BS 5RM, 6RM, 8RM, 10RM

weds
FS 2x~5RM
BS 5xRM, 6RM

fri
FS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)
BS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)

and i've hit a brick wall with this, am sore and beaten up (joints, ligaments etc) and burnt out cns'ly and kind of dread squatting now

will be cutting for another 4wks btw hoping to get sub 75kg/165lb ..

While your cutting I would keep the really cns intensive stuff to the front squat, and use the  back squat for your volume.  One way-

mon- ramped front squat in singles up to heavy single ( whatever youre capable of for a single without much grinding.  Shouldnt have to psyche up for it, and shouldnt miss.)

then  3 x 5  back squat around 8rm to start with.  ramp weight if its easy


weds- 3 x 3 front squat  ramped sets up to a heavy triple.  2 x 10  back squat (easy weight, could get 15 to start with)


friday-  4 reps front squat, rack the weight, 4 reps  back squat, 4 sets.  Try and improve the load each week you do this.

only an example, though that will make progress easier and still give you nice volume.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 19, 2012, 06:11:30 am
hey lance or andrew can you give me some tips for how to schedule fs and bs w/o grinding myself into dust? Atm i do the following program while reversehypertrophing:-


mon
FS 4RM, 4RM (-2.5kg), 4RM(-5kg), 4RM (-7.5kg),
BS 5RM, 6RM, 8RM, 10RM

weds
FS 2x~5RM
BS 5xRM, 6RM

fri
FS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)
BS 5x~1RM (heavy singles)

and i've hit a brick wall with this, am sore and beaten up (joints, ligaments etc) and burnt out cns'ly and kind of dread squatting now

will be cutting for another 4wks btw hoping to get sub 75kg/165lb ..

While your cutting I would keep the really cns intensive stuff to the front squat, and use the  back squat for your volume.  One way-

mon- ramped front squat in singles up to heavy single ( whatever youre capable of for a single without much grinding.  Shouldnt have to psyche up for it, and shouldnt miss.)

then  3 x 5  back squat around 8rm to start with.  ramp weight if its easy


weds- 3 x 3 front squat  ramped sets up to a heavy triple.  2 x 10  back squat (easy weight, could get 15 to start with)


friday-  4 reps front squat, rack the weight, 4 reps  back squat, 4 sets.  Try and improve the load each week you do this.

only an example, though that will make progress easier and still give you nice volume.

Thanks much. Will implement it starting today!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 20, 2012, 12:21:37 am
Laying off the daily TM work for a while, have managed to bother my right knee again. As long as I stick to about 3kph it's fine but on Saturday I went to 3.6 and that did me in.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on November 20, 2012, 02:09:59 am
Nice squats.  It's hard to keep focus on front squat and back squat while cutting but this is what I have been doing for awhile. 

Warm up with front squats, triples up to one or two challenging but not impossible work sets for front squats.   Then switch to back squat and do higher-volume paused reps until I hit a rep goal.

For example if I am going to work with 315 (which is about a 6-7rep max for me in fsq): Front squats:  3x135, 3x225, 3x275, 3x315, 3x315 THEN switch to paused back squats:  5-10x315 until I hit somewhere between 20-40 reps.

That might be a bit volume intense, but I really like using the front squats for ramping so the movement pattern doesn't get old, but limiting the heavier sets you are not too fried for your back-squat.  I've cut around 10 lbs and been able to keep this up while raising my reps/set in the backsquat.   A fair compromise.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 20, 2012, 08:59:49 am
Nice squats.  It's hard to keep focus on front squat and back squat while cutting but this is what I have been doing for awhile. 

Warm up with front squats, triples up to one or two challenging but not impossible work sets for front squats.   Then switch to back squat and do higher-volume paused reps until I hit a rep goal. 

Thanks. I've been doing FS first and then BS 2nd, it works ok except on the heaviest FS day I am too fried to attempt BSs afterwards. But on volume days i've been doing ok with FS first and then BS last, similar to what you do.

Quote
For example if I am going to work with 315 (which is about a 6-7rep max for me in fsq): Front squats:  3x135, 3x225, 3x275, 3x315, 3x315 THEN switch to paused back squats:  5-10x315 until I hit somewhere between 20-40 reps.   

I like that mindset of picking a weight, sticking with it until you've mastered it (got the rep goal), before adding more. I still have this awful habit that I picked up from my introduction to weights where I try to linearly progress thru workouts every time, but I really need to give that up and allow form and mastery of a weight should dictate when to progress, not some idealised progression scheme.

Quote
That might be a bit volume intense, but I really like using the front squats for ramping so the movement pattern doesn't get old, but limiting the heavier sets you are not too fried for your back-squat.  I've cut around 10 lbs and been able to keep this up while raising my reps/set in the backsquat.   A fair compromise.

I like the suggestion. Until now i've been working w/ Lance's advice a while back to do volume (~30-40reps) which I took to mean 30 reps with FS and then 30 reps with BS - meaning I was doing close to 50-60 reps on my high volume days. Then on medium volume days i was getting about 40 reps total, and the heaviest/low volume day, i've been doing heavy singles for a total of about 20 heavy reps. But recently the FS singles have gotten so heavy that BS singles have become difficult afterwards.

Thanks for stopping by, always a pleasure to hear your thoughts on training.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 20, 2012, 09:05:33 am
I tried training using Lance's suggested program but as I feared, back-to-back heavy singles days were not going to happen. I got pinned really badly halfway up on my last warmup single (105). I'm not sure what's going on but I think i'll need to take deload week before switching from my old program to the new one.

And i'm also easing off on the daily treadmill. Like i've mentioned it amounts to a mere 40-60 calories a day. Chump change, and if it's messing up my knees and affecting my squatting/sprinting then it's not worth the opportunistic cost.

So plan for this week is get the knees feeling better, shake of this right hamstring tendon funkiness, deload for the rest of the week (i haven't taken a deload week all year), and then start Lance's program monday.

This week is proving to be a bad one for training - been too busy with other things. So no point stressing over it, just going to take it in stride and let my body recover and heal up for the rest of the cut.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on November 20, 2012, 10:01:14 am
try some other kind of cardio? jump rope? rower? light bodyweight circuits?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 22, 2012, 12:15:35 pm
try some other kind of cardio? jump rope? rower? light bodyweight circuits?

I tried skipping earlier this yr, hurts my knees & ankles. Don't have access to rower or bike (that would be ideal tho). I will try your circuit suggestion. It sounds crossfitty but it might just do the trick. Thanks.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w8d4
Post by: entropy on November 22, 2012, 12:24:44 pm
Training
OHP 2x5x52.5
BP 4x77.5, 3x75, 6x70, 6x67.5, 6x65
FS 5x93.5 (PR?), 5x92.5 (form PR)
BS 5x97.5, 6x95

FS notes:
FS was ok. I used a tip I picked up in vag's thread from kingfish about wearing shoes loose. It allowed me to drop down into the hole effortless without bothering my ankle nor my knees nor my hamstring tendon thingy.

But the real breakthru was in the 2nd set where I learnt to use my quads to keep myself upright out of the hole. Vid below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qooHvkFnQC4

This should be my form in all worksets from now.

BS notes:
Felt amazing to backsquat without sore hips/hamstring tendonitis. I wanted 100x6 but the layoff has made me weakr.

Pressing notes:
My right shoulder hated benching. I found everything heavy and ugly.


Forced myself to workout. I don't deal with skipping days, it throws me completely off my game. But thankfully this week is behind me, should be smooth sailing now til the new year.

Should fit in 1 more workout this wk and then next wk start over with programming changes. I haven't been cutting properly either the last few days. Just life getting in the way.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on November 22, 2012, 10:42:08 pm
New bodyweight milestone, under 171 lb today. Can't wait to be in the 160s. This is suprising esp since I have been working thru a 2L container of icecream over 2 the last coupla days. I'll take it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on November 22, 2012, 11:05:22 pm
Nice. You'll be 165 sooner than you thought at this rate.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on November 23, 2012, 07:09:20 am
How do you feel so far vs where you started... in terms of everything?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on November 23, 2012, 10:00:48 am
try some other kind of cardio? jump rope? rower? light bodyweight circuits?

I tried skipping earlier this yr, hurts my knees & ankles. Don't have access to rower or bike (that would be ideal tho). I will try your circuit suggestion. It sounds crossfitty but it might just do the trick. Thanks.

YAAARRRRRR crossfit did not invent circuit training! they just fetishized it! circuits are fun.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w8d6
Post by: entropy on November 24, 2012, 06:55:44 am
Training
OHP 2x5x53
FS 5x95 (PR), 5x91
BS 6x97.5, 6x95
BP 1x87.5 (PR), 1Fx87.5 (brought the bar down too fast)
WC 3x90, 2x100, 0.8x110 (+30kg, couldn't get chin over the bar), 3x95, 8xBW (PR)

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
Felt strong today. I was in two minds whether to go heavy and do the heavy singles, or save myself for monday as per Lance. In the end I was happy to do 5s. I like 5s on FS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxvyOnkV14M

Felt good about form. It's not every day I get a PR on the bar, as well as on the scale, and have good form as well. See video above!

BS notes:
Form was great. Squatting has come together. I must remember to always employ a cue I got from LBSS months back which helps a lot on both squats.


Have to bench and weighted chin yet. I could leave wc for next week but it will be 2 weeks btw workouts which i want to avoid. so looks like i'll be having a hard ass training day instead.


YAAARRRRRR crossfit did not invent circuit training! they just fetishized it! circuits are fun.

Was that intentional or coincidence (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=yaar)? Either way is very cool. Yeah they didn't invent it, they have just appropriated it and made it unfashionable. Which is probably a pity because it's got some merits, they just went full retard with it!

How do you feel so far vs where you started... in terms of everything?

Feels like I just got asked an interview question by a blonde valley girl. What do you feel, like, about stuff? Lol. just kidding. Yeah dunno man, i think it's too early to tell atm and I don't think I have achieved anything yet. Yes i've lost 20 pounds, but so what I still feel like a big fat whale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUI68NSK2e8) so as far as I am concerned nothing much has happen. But that's probably because i'm too familiar or accustomed to myself, if that makes sense? If i meet someone I haven't seen in a while they'll comment how skinny ive gotten. Ask me again once i finish cutting to 10%. Will probably be sub 75kg/165lb when i'm done.

Nice. You'll be 165 sooner than you thought at this rate.

Hope so. Thanks! I haven't been very strict lately so it might mean it takes longer than mid december. I don't mind as long as it's done by new year though. Most people make their resolutions then, i'll be delivering mine as a late xmas present to myself lol. But seriously would like to be under 75kg/165lb by then. That would be wonderful.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - w1d1
Post by: entropy on November 26, 2012, 07:40:31 am
Training
OHP 2x5x53.5
BP 5x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 3x5x70 (WG)
FS 5x96 (PR), 5x92
BS 5x100, 6x97.5, 6x92.5

Pressing notes:
I need access to DBs, barbell's not doing it for me.

FS notes:
Form ok. Happy with the PR, next time go for 5x97.5.

BS notes:
Good form. Stick with 100 as top set until I can get 6 reps before adding weight.

Started new Lance inspired programming. CNS intensive FS followed by voluminous (sounds like a shampoo commercial) BS. Lets get dis done. Progression occurs when sufficient reps are performed with a given weight with good form. Both things (form and reps) must be there before adding weight.

Goals for next 5 weeks:
- BW < 75kg/165lb
- FS: 105x5 and 120x1 w/ good form
- BS: 110x6 and 100x8
- BP: 100x1 and 85x5 (good form)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d3
Post by: entropy on November 28, 2012, 04:02:36 am
Training
OHP 2x5x53.5
FS 5x97.5 (PR), 5x92.5

AM workout down, PM to go. Will backsquat and weighted chin later tonight.

FS notes:
I wasn't happy with form but reviewing the video it actually looked a lot better than I thought it would be. Nevertheless I will stick with 97.5 til form is great and then add weight.


Taurine is a sick supplement. It solved my big problem of finding myself lying restlessly in bed, hungry and sleepless and feeling miserable. I took a gram before bed which chilled me the fuck out for a few hours later while I was catching up on Dexter and Homeland. And then I took another gram just before I knocked out. Instantly made me forget I was hungry and I found myself easing up and soon quite relaxed.

For anyone else having trouble with mood and hunger while cutting, make sure to give Taurine a try.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: seifullaah73 on November 28, 2012, 04:54:46 am
I remember taurine......

That't what they put in energy drinks. Like Red Bull
Try that next time and see if it brings the same effect.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d5
Post by: entropy on November 30, 2012, 07:18:52 am
Training
FS 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 1x112.5, 0x115
BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x100, 3x97.5

Upper body stuff tomorrow, can't be bothered finishing this workout. Messed up this week. Didn't adhere to diet, trained badly. Weather sucked and just feel like blah.


seif, lol, do you want me to try taking redbull before bed? Not sure if srs brah.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: seifullaah73 on November 30, 2012, 06:18:24 pm
You probably won't sleep if you drank red bull. lol
i was kidding.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 01, 2012, 02:28:22 am
Might just post in the log that I spun my wheels throughout November. I had about 2 weeks of solid dieting and burned about 1-2 kilos of bodyfat. And 2 weeks off the rails where I gained it all back. So net result is 0. I will now do the predictable familar reflexive knee jerk lets-start-from-scratch-and-do-it-right-this-time-thing-I-do.

The only bright side to all this i've come to believe I have an easy 5kg of bodyfat left to lose and my bodyfat is probably still around 15% maybe more. So that means I should be able to sustain 1kg/week weight loss if I don't fall off the diet. It will be difficult this time of the year with all the holiday stuff but i'll manage somehow.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: seifullaah73 on December 01, 2012, 06:24:43 am
go and get it.
 :headbang:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w1d6
Post by: entropy on December 01, 2012, 07:22:09 am
Training
BP 1x77.5, 1x82.5, 1x85, 1x87.5, 1x90, 0x92.5
OHP 4,5x54
WCU 3xBW, 2x84.5, 1x94.5, 1x99.5, 1x104.5, 0x107.5, 3x94.5, 5x89.5, 5x87

Good day for training. Looks like i'm about 10kg away from benching 100kg. Not likely to happen in 2012. OHP is doing great things, i've added a lot of meat to my shoulders in the few weeks i've been doing these. I will prob transition these from 3x a week to 1x at around 60kg ish. Weighted chinups, i'm happy with. Wanted the 107.5kg pr but couldn't lock it out. came close tho. Next time.


go and get it.
 :headbang:

cheers!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d1
Post by: entropy on December 03, 2012, 11:21:55 am
Training
FS 4x98.5, 5x93.5
BS 6x100, 7x95 (PR), 8x92.5 (PR)
BP 5x77.5, 4x75, 6x72.5, 3x5x70 (WG)

FS notes:
Not saying I would have had got the rep but annoyingly caught the pins on the bottom of the 5th rep which threw me off balance and I failed the last rep. This hasn't happened for ages because the pins are set pretty low. I guess I went lower than ATG if that's possible. But it's ok i'll definitely get it next time. I would have repeated it anyway to get better form so no harm done.

OH and the 5x92.5 was very pretty - almost the nicest set of front squats ive done!

BS notes:
Finally some PRs. I got the 100x6 I was chasing as well but I will stick with these weights til I get more depth before progressing.


Diet notes:
Been struggling with dieting. I managed 2 days in a row and then yesterday had a family function and did really well - ate within my restrictions. But somehow later that night used up all my (finite) discipline along the way and unfortunately ended up finishing all the left overs (!). Threw me off my game and today I was so disgusted with myself I ended up eating more junk in the morning. Anyway. Will start over tomorrow.

Programming notes:
My program is coming around organically. I'm taking bits and pieces from Lance and keeping what was working for me before - dropping what wasn't and hopefully it will serve me well going forward. Here is how it looks -

Mon: FS 2x5, BS 1x6, 1x6-8, 1x7-8 (aiming for a total squatting volume of about 28-32 reps)
Wed: FS 2x5, BS 1x5, 1x6 (aiming for a total of 20-21 reps - higher intensity on the BS than Mon)
Fri: FS singles to a max, BS 1x3, 1x5 (aiming for a total of ~15 reps, higher intensity than Weds)

So it's waving intensity up and volume down thru the week. I know it's the opposite of what Lance recommended (waving intensity down and volume up) but it seems to suit me better psychologically - because I look forward to going balls out on fridays but knowing I have to do less volume.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 03, 2012, 12:01:46 pm
at this point why are you still worried about going deeper? your depth is great, you need to keep adding weight to the bar!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 03, 2012, 12:14:41 pm
at this point why are you still worried about going deeper? your depth is great, you need to keep adding weight to the bar!

Pretty sure you wouldn't approve of my depth on back squats. In fact I remember you told me to squat deeper in the first place in my old log :) But have a look at the video first :-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P2x-CBJz1w

Btw is it ok to backsquat to parallel or just slightly below if i'm doing ATG front squats as well?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 03, 2012, 02:34:58 pm
If you're front squatting I think you'd be better suited to do low bar squats and/or very hip dominant compound movements like RDLs/isolation glute exercises like hip thrusts. You should get plenty of quad hypertrophy from the front squats, no reason to be redundant with high bar squats.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 03, 2012, 02:43:18 pm
If you're front squatting I think you'd be better suited to do low bar squats and/or very hip dominant compound movements like RDLs/isolation glute exercises like hip thrusts. You should get plenty of quad hypertrophy from the front squats, no reason to be redundant with high bar squats.

Fuck your half deadlifts dude.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 03, 2012, 02:44:52 pm
at this point why are you still worried about going deeper? your depth is great, you need to keep adding weight to the bar!

Pretty sure you wouldn't approve of my depth on back squats. In fact I remember you told me to squat deeper in the first place in my old log :) But have a look at the video first :-

Btw is it ok to backsquat to parallel or just slightly below if i'm doing ATG front squats as well?

word, i guess i figured that because your FS depth has improved so much your BS depth had followed. on that video, you could be deeper but you're at or below the plane.

whether it's okay to BS to parallel or slightly below depends on what you're trying to get out of the BS. hell, some of adarq's best vert gains came when he was half-squatting to pins.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 03, 2012, 03:05:52 pm
at this point why are you still worried about going deeper? your depth is great, you need to keep adding weight to the bar!

Pretty sure you wouldn't approve of my depth on back squats. In fact I remember you told me to squat deeper in the first place in my old log :) But have a look at the video first :-

Btw is it ok to backsquat to parallel or just slightly below if i'm doing ATG front squats as well?

word, i guess i figured that because your FS depth has improved so much your BS depth had followed. on that video, you could be deeper but you're at or below the plane. 

Well in a way I can squat a lot deeper on BS if I take some weight off the bar but you might say that's pointless and I should be looking to add weight instead. Maybe it's psychological, don't like being at the bottom of a backsquat with a heavy weight, feels precarious. I don't mind with front squat, that feels perfectly comfortable even with limit weights, but with BS I feel i could easily snap some shit up, esp when I hit my sticking point and then I have to work very hard not to get bent over and squat morning.

Quote
whether it's okay to BS to parallel or slightly below depends on what you're trying to get out of the BS. hell, some of adarq's best vert gains came when he was half-squatting to pins.

This is what I wanna know. Do I get more out of doing deeper and lighter backsquats, or do I get more out of doing heavier parallel ones. Who knows.

raptor, i'm kind of sick of training already, i dont wanna add any more exercises cos it feels like I live in the gym already. That's why I don't do RDLs anymore, just cant be bothered with another exercise unless it's absolutely improving my athleticism - which I found RDL not to be doing. I think i got nothing out of the 3-5 months I spent working on my RDL. On the other hand, i'm not squatting much right now so maybe I should just work on adding some weight before looking to assistance exercises like hip thrusts. But perhaps if I did do them, i would find it easier to progress my BS? I dunno. I'm willing to hear suggestions. I agree with you about HBBS tho - i use a HBBS placement (kind of) but my backsquats are closer to LBBS than HBBS - do you agree?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on December 03, 2012, 03:35:16 pm
If you're front squatting I think you'd be better suited to do low bar squats and/or very hip dominant compound movements like RDLs/isolation glute exercises like hip thrusts. You should get plenty of quad hypertrophy from the front squats, no reason to be redundant with high bar squats.

Fuck your half deadlifts dude.

lol'd
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 03, 2012, 06:56:40 pm
If you're front squatting I think you'd be better suited to do low bar squats and/or very hip dominant compound movements like RDLs/isolation glute exercises like hip thrusts. You should get plenty of quad hypertrophy from the front squats, no reason to be redundant with high bar squats.

Fuck your half deadlifts dude.

lol'd

Me too, although that's too bad for him.

What rep range/volume did you use for your quarter deadlifts?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 05, 2012, 12:28:41 am
Quote
What rep range/volume did you use for your quarter deadlifts?

Work up a heavy triple (135kg ish last time I did them). Then 2 sets of 10 with around 110kg. Did them once a week.

So i've lost 20lb since I first dunked. Wonder what my vertical is now? I haven't been on a basketball court for many months. I wouldn't mind testing vert at some point.

Got wicked lower body doms from last workout. Still sore today will see how it goes squatting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d3
Post by: vag on December 05, 2012, 04:24:45 am
OHP notes:
Kinda tweaked my back on OHP. I hate this stupid lift, always gives me back problems. I should focus on maintaining perfect form and only adding weight once i've mastered the weight. Patience will probably go a long way as long as I'm consistent over a period of 6-12months.

I have the same problem and i don't even lift as heavy as you , currently at 7-6-6@45kg if i remember well.
Why don't you switch to push press , the back problems for me appear at the bottom of the ROM and they all dissapeared when i switched to push-press. Lance is a big fan of push-press too , it's also supposed to have a much better athletic carryover ( which seems logical since there is a violent triple extension involved ). I hate the OHP and i loved the push-press ( but now i'm stuck with OHP because of my quad injury , FML , irrelevant ).
Just some thoughts material.
:lololol:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 05, 2012, 05:07:14 am
Do you purposedly not lock your knees at the end of the movement (back up)? What's up with that? It looks like you're so weak when you stand tall, at the knee joint.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d3
Post by: entropy on December 05, 2012, 06:41:45 am
OHP notes:
Kinda tweaked my back on OHP. I hate this stupid lift, always gives me back problems. I should focus on maintaining perfect form and only adding weight once i've mastered the weight. Patience will probably go a long way as long as I'm consistent over a period of 6-12months.

I have the same problem and i don't even lift as heavy as you , currently at 7-6-6@45kg if i remember well.
Why don't you switch to push press , the back problems for me appear at the bottom of the ROM and they all dissapeared when i switched to push-press. Lance is a big fan of push-press too , it's also supposed to have a much better athletic carryover ( which seems logical since there is a violent triple extension involved ). I hate the OHP and i loved the push-press ( but now i'm stuck with OHP because of my quad injury , FML , irrelevant ).
Just some thoughts material.
:lololol:

Dabbled with PP earlier in the year. Did not mind them but not in love with them either! I dislike both of them equally :) I also do not think they are an OHP replacement. If I were doing PP i'd still keep an overhead press in there but my preference is to do less exercises than more. I don't think PP are safer than OHP though - I can fail OHP easier than PP because the weight is lighter. There is also an equipment issue -  if I had bumpers i'd reconsider PPs since they'd be easy to drop if something went wrong. But if I had bumpers i'd probably just do jerks instead!

One exercise I would consider replacing OHP with is the incline press. Is that a good idea?

Do you purposedly not lock your knees at the end of the movement (back up)? What's up with that? It looks like you're so weak when you stand tall, at the knee joint.

Yes mate, I relax at the top of the lift to get my breath back. I don't lock out my knees completely because I don't know, it just feels more in control of the weight and I prefer to be actively bouncing around (keeping my CNS primed) than statically locked out with a passive CNS if that makes sense. Do you think it matters? I find it better prepares me for the next rep this way.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 05, 2012, 07:05:16 am
I am personally locking my knees and even trying to actively hyperextending them (I know, sounds terrible) and also am doing the same thing with the hips (going for a posteriorly rotate pelvis at the top) - these two things help me really squeeze the VMOs and glutes, a thing that normally doesn't happen if I don't actively think about it. If I'm just doing "normal" reps these things don't occur. It's a pretty big difference for me (I can feel the VMOs and glutes do work doing this).

Obviously I'm not overdoing it or really exaggerating it to the point of injury, and I'm usually doing it with lower weights. You won't see me think about this doing 1RM stuff.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d3
Post by: entropy on December 05, 2012, 08:04:16 am
Training
OHP 2x5x55
FS 5x98.5 (PR), 5x94.5

BS 3x105, 6x101
HIIT 6x 10 on, 13 off

FS notes:
Felt weak today warming up, the last warmup with 100kg felt like an RPE 10. But somehow I still got the PR and it wasn't too bad. Next week i'll go for the 100x5 which is fairly exciting! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnDZFaH8EYA

Btw i'm going really deep now on FS - It's not surprising to me that I caught the pins last workout now that I think about it.

BS notes:
Wanted 5x105 but 3x105 will do for now - I didn't chase failure! The 6th rep of 101 was unsafely ugly. Stupid backsquat. But it's my fault, I shouldn't be working with RMs like this. Should keep a rep in the tank!!

So on friday i'll aim to get 5x105 and 3x107.5 - This might be too ambitious? Ideas welcome.

OHP notes:
Kinda tweaked my back on OHP. I hate this stupid lift, always gives me back problems. I should focus on maintaining perfect form and only adding weight once i've mastered the weight. Patience will probably go a long way as long as I'm consistent over a period of 6-12months.

Conditioning notes:
Got a stitch lol - that's how unfit i've become. But this is good, have to do my HIIT regularly to get rid of this damn lower ab fat.


Decided to try splitting up squatting into two sessions - FS and BS. Will see if it leads to higher quality BS workouts.

Delaying weighted chins for another workout - can't be bothered today. Instead i'll do the first conditioning workout in about a month lol.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 05, 2012, 09:28:27 am
I am personally locking my knees and even trying to actively hyperextending them (I know, sounds terrible) and also am doing the same thing with the hips (going for a posteriorly rotate pelvis at the top) - these two things help me really squeeze the VMOs and glutes, a thing that normally doesn't happen if I don't actively think about it. If I'm just doing "normal" reps these things don't occur. It's a pretty big difference for me (I can feel the VMOs and glutes do work doing this).
I might be misunderstanding you (probable) but are you saying that if you consciously exaggarate the movement at the end of the cocentric you get better activation in VMOS and glutes? I'll have to try that out and see for myself.

Quote
Obviously I'm not overdoing it or really exaggerating it to the point of injury, and I'm usually doing it with lower weights. You won't see me think about this doing 1RM stuff.
Interesting. Yeah, it would have to be an effect seen over volume since it's such a small part of the ROM.


I read that as people diet down to lower bodyfat - their muscle fibres transition into slow twitch ones. Now that's something I don't want to happen - so I should keep the sprints and jumps in while cutting. But what i'm wondering is, maybe when they studied this thing, they were studying people who did a lot of traditional "fat burn" training like slow steady cardio. If you spend hours on the treadmill a day, of course that will mean your muscles adapt to that sort of activity. Doesn't necessarily mean cutting bodyfat itself is automatically the mechanism for the fast->slow twitch changes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 05, 2012, 09:43:12 am
^^^ Interesting. Where is T0ddday to explain this to us? Intuitively you'd think that losing BW wouldn't have a deleterious effect on muscle fiber composition as long as you're consistently training for strength and/or explosiveness. No idea whether that's actually true in the real world, though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 05, 2012, 11:13:13 am
Actually, training brings you more into the IIA realm of more endurance (vs IIB) - sitting on your butt all day long gives you more IIB than training (probably also does doing very low volume/very high intensity (tension) singles and stuff like that).

What's also interesting is that only the type II fibers actually hypertrophy, otherwise we'd see those muscular marathon runners with huge type I muscles.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d5
Post by: entropy on December 07, 2012, 04:46:54 am
Training
FS 1x100, 1x107.5, 1x112.5, 1x117.5 (PR)
BP 1x77.5, 1x82.5, 1x87.5, 0x92.5, 3x80

BS 3x107.5, 3x105, 4x102.5
WCU 2x84.5, 1x89.5, 1x99.5, 1x104.5, 1x102, 2x99.5, 4x94.5, 5x89.5, 5x87, 9xBW (PR)
Jumps (5 svjs, about 5 double step jumps)

HIIT sprints 06:10:13

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
Warmed up rusty. But finally a new 1RM PR breakthrough. That means i'm above 1.5BW now!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoCF-PbHlZ0

Form was iffy - and I know exactly why - it's a lack of quad strength. I know the form breakdown mode very well, all i'm lacking is a strategy to attack it with. Andrew gave me an idea earlier in the log to use heavy partials - that might help. Provided quads get stronger in the next few weeks, I believe I can get 120kg @ ~75kg with good form by the end of the year.

BP notes:
I came closer at getting the 92.5 max this week but it's still a bit too heavy for me. I won't try it again next week, instead i'll try getting some more reps in with a weight that's slightly below there.

BS notes:
Good form. Happy with backsquat!

Jump notes:
I am about 6" away from touching the top of the square on the outdoor rim. This isn't too bad considering i haven't jumped in months. So I haven't lost much if at all, if anything i'm jumping slightly better than before. But I think once i'm done cutting (as in a legit 10% bodyfat) - I will be some 5kg (of pure lard) lighter than i am currently. I'll also be able to train jump more seriously and will be able to eat better etc. So these are all promising signs that i'm on the right track.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 07, 2012, 09:37:09 am
that ain't just quads, broseph. look at how much your upper back rounds on the concentric.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 07, 2012, 10:12:50 am
that ain't just quads, broseph. look at how much your upper back rounds on the concentric.

I think the causality goes the other way. insufficient quad strength leads to upper back rounding. Fix the quad weakness, fix the rounding. You can argue my upper back rounds, which causes the breakdown of form. But I know from being under the bar that it was my quads being close to limit effort that my body compensates by allowing back to round, making it easier to bring the bar into my body using lower back strength, and then once the bar is back into my body (and raised slightly), i push my glutes thru. This whole thing bypasses my quads because they couldn't do the job in the first place. But we'll see how it goes, if i'm wrong then quad work wont make much difference and will be back to square 1.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 07, 2012, 10:16:10 am
interesting analysis. you're obviously in a better position to know than i am.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 07, 2012, 10:34:14 am
interesting analysis. you're obviously in a better position to know than i am.

Yeah I think quad weakness is the cause, and upper back rounding the effect.

It's one thing which really bugs me about my front squats. It feels like this whole time i've been doing them i've been cheating my way through and even though I set out to build leg strength by them, i've just build glute strength or something instead.

But i'm wrong, because yesterday when I tried out my swimming shorts for the first time since last summer, they have got real tight around the thighs, so much so that I can't even walk properly when I wear them. And my quads bulge out which never used to happen before. If you think maybe you just got fat - well no, because i'm some 20 pounds lighter now so it's the muscular kind of girth not the starting strength one.

I know how a good front squat should feel like (real leg dominant) and it just doesn't happen often. Could probably count on my fingertips on one hand the reps which i've felt 'hitting' my quads til now. I even get the feeling I get better quad involvement out of my more modest backsquats than I do from my front squats, even though the front squat weight is heavier than the bs weight!

That's why I would like to try out some SSB squats one day, see if they hit my quads better. And if you are thinking 'then why don't you just do backsquats' - it's because i'm built wrong for backsquats, hit this awful sticking point halfway up and either near enough snap my spine squatmorning or grind out a slow difficult rep. But it just sounds like im making excuses sometimes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 09, 2012, 12:04:32 am
Body comp thoughts
When I started cutting at 87kg (190lb) I thought by the time I got to 80kg (175lb) I'd be ripped. Then I got there and it wasn't the case. So I said, surely by 75kg (165lb) it will happen. And as i'm quickly approaching 75kg I realise it's not going to happen there either! I'm thinking it might be closer to 70kg (155lb). I can't imagine needing to go under 70kg, that must be a safe lower bound, but lets see what happens. I'm getting used to disappointment.

My waist is now just under 33" and I suspect given my build, i'll need to look at achieving a 30" or smaller waist for single digit bodyfat. So I probably have months of cutting left to do. This sucks obviously. But i'm satisfied knowing there will be the light at the end of the tunnel, i'm just not anywhere near it yet.

Oh and the reason why I'm looking at 30" is the following table:

American Council on Exercise
Bodyfat %   Abdomen (in.)   
0%   26.58
1%   26.92
2%   27.27   Essential Fat
3%   27.63
4%   28.00
5%   28.38
6%   28.77   Athletes
7%   29.17
8%   29.58
9%   30.00
10%   30.44
11%   30.88
12%   31.34
13%   31.81
14%   32.29   Fitness
15%   32.79
16%   33.30
17%   33.82

generated using http://www.chaosreigns.com/gym/waistfromfat.html - i put in 14" for neck and 75" for height. Would be interesting to see what other people get using the calculator for their current waist and expected waist at 10%?


funk master flex
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: acole14 on December 09, 2012, 01:16:24 am
With 41cm neck and 179cm height I got:

0%   72.49
1%   73.33
2%   74.17   Essential Fat
3%   75.06
4%   75.95
5%   76.86
6%   77.83   Athletes
7%   78.79
8%   79.78
9%   80.82
10%   81.86

80cm waist so ~8-9%, mostly in line with other online calcs I've used.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on December 09, 2012, 11:19:05 am
Surveys FTW!!!  :highfive:

Neck = ~16'' ( 40,5 cm ) / Height = 72'' ( ~183cm )

10%   31.90
15%   34.18
20%   36.78

Current waist = ~35,7'' ( 90,5cm ) => ~18%  :ffffffuuuuuu:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: ahotzo on December 09, 2012, 01:53:55 pm
Neck = ~16/ Height = 67

0%   27.47
1%   27.78
2%   28.10   Essential Fat
3%   28.43
4%   28.77
5%   29.12
6%   29.47   Athletes
7%   29.84
8%   30.21
9%   30.60
10%   30.99
11%   31.40
12%   31.82
13%   32.25
14%   32.69   Fitness
15%   33.14

Current Waist = ~ 32.5 => 13-14%...seems pretty accurate, thats what I would have estimated
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 09, 2012, 11:20:55 pm
Thank you for the data guys. It looks like it uses neck circumference as a proxy for muscularity and waist circumference for fatness. If you have an inch more of neck circumference it affords you an extra inch of waist circumference for the same bodyfat. Interesting stuff.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on December 10, 2012, 02:08:20 am
Waist 33.5 inches
Neck 16.75 inches
Bodyfat- 13%
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d1
Post by: entropy on December 10, 2012, 06:13:29 am
Training
FS 1x107.5, 4x100, 5x95

BP 6x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 6x70, 6x67.5, 6x65 (last 3 wg)

BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x102.5, 4x100, 2x97.5, 10x60

BW: 77.1kg/169.98lb  (quietly slipped into 160s -- reverse hypertrophy here I come)

FS notes:
Couldn't for the life of me figure out why almost every single rep including warmups had bad form. Were my shoe laces too tight? Was it the different pair of shorts? Was some muscle (group) not fully recovered from last week? Very frustrating.

BP notes:
Struggling with that top set but I finally got 6 this week. But it was so difficult that I may as well have failed it! The good thing about this session was getting 36 reps in. Decent amount of volume.

BS notes:
Delaying this to the 3rd (!) session made a big difference. I think also because I warmed up starting from the bar rather than my usual practice of going straight from FSs to BS starting with 90kg. Whatevers. Was still shit, couldn't get 6 reps at all. I didn't court failure though. Anyway, hopefully i've done enough to put some carbs into my legs all the same.


Session 1: Incredibly shitty workout. I guess i've had a good run lately, lots of PRs while cutting. In hindsight I might have erred by not taking the carb reload today. I have been feeling pretty awful, tired and my brain feels sluggish inside my scull. I guess that was a sign i'm carb depleted or whatever but I wanted to soldier on for another week. Nevermind. I'll take on wednesday.

I cut the workout short, will have some bread and try again later tonight to backsquat and bench. If i have time and weather permits, hiit sprints as well.

Session 2: I decided just to do the carb reload today. Why not? I've been eating bread like it's going out of fashion. So good.

(http://i.imgur.com/1YG54.png)

I think there were 8, 10 or 12 in the whole pack. I didn't pay attention. But looking online each one is 16g of cho, 2.8g pro, 0.7g fat - so pretty great for a good clean carb reload.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 10, 2012, 01:53:38 pm
neck 15.75", height 71", measured waist 32"

6%   29.87   Athletes
7%   30.26
8%   30.65
9%   31.05
10%   31.47
11%   31.90
12%   32.33
13%   32.78


sounds about right.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 10, 2012, 05:21:26 pm
I need to measure some stuff... brb
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 10, 2012, 05:44:09 pm
I end up at 39 cm neck and 90 cm belly giving me 18-19% bodyfat.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d3
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 05:06:31 am
Training
FS 4x100, 5x99.5 (PR)
BSS 35x5R, 35x5L, 35x4R (fail), 35x4L, 35x5R, 35x5R

OHP 2x5x56, 8x50

FS notes:
Was annoyed at not getting the 100kg pr, so decided to attempt a closeby 99.5 pr on the 2nd set. Got it but form left much to be desired. So next week i'll probably get 100x5 and then i'll see what to do about progressing from there.

BSS notes:
My right side is a lot weaker than L. I can go deep (touching ground with knee) on L. Not so much on R. Good! This means i've got an imbalance and I have an exercise which will fix it hopefully!

Shit failed BSS at the bottom of the last rep. had to jerk the barbell over my head, then drop it infront of me. Not sure how i'm supposed to fail these without breaking my shit.

Ok back into the rack, the pins will save me if I get trapped. Sorted out.


Anyway i'm fucked off with with my problems with squat form. I dunno if it's my body dimensions, my bent bar, the not level floor, or just flexibility but i've had enough with asymmetry. The bar isn't straight on my back, isn't straight out of the hole. Was thinking since i pay for medical insurance regularly I should probably try geting something back for my money and try seeing a physiotherapist, if it will help rule out a few of these factors. They tend to be useless quacks in my experience but surely this isn't a difficult problem to diagnose..?

Just another thought. If the problem is imbalance - I should try unilateral exercises. I've wanted to try bulgarian split squats earlier this year. But I couldn't because of a persistent ankle injury. I'm healed from that now so I might give it a shot. I just realised I don't even have to use a lot of weight. Suppose I work up to 100kg BSS then that's plenty of weight for just 1 leg. right? It shouldn't be too unsafe. I'm not used to training outside the cage though so it feels a bit weird.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 06:39:37 am
Thoughts on BSS

I like these a lot. I found myself falling out of balance at first but I think it's just a matter of practice. Here are my immediate observations after the first time doing these.

So hopefully 2 things will happen from BSS - R leg will catch up strength wise to L. And 2, once R has caught up to L - L won't be so fatigued from FS/BS because R leg will be contributing it's fair share.

Once the above correction takes place - hopefully I will cure this R hamstring tendon funkiness too.

And here begins the BSS experiment.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2012, 08:51:28 am
Make sure you keep an upright torso as possible if you're doing barbell bulgarian split squats. When I did them I tended to lean forward as I was going down - that's why I switched to dumbbell BSSs that are so much better (for me at least).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 08:53:37 am
I'll PM you a video, tell me if i'm doing them ok. Thanks.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2012, 09:03:54 am
Well I mean... you're probably going to load the quads quite a bit if you do bend forward and considering you're already doing front squats I guess you're using BSSs for glute development, which they're GREAT at.

For me, the BSS is the best glute exercise ever. Better than hip thrusts and RDLs.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 09:08:25 am
Well I mean... you're probably going to load the quads quite a bit if you do bend forward and considering you're already doing front squats I guess you're using BSSs for glute development, which they're GREAT at.

For me, the BSS is the best glute exercise ever. Better than hip thrusts and RDLs.

No man the front squat experiment to build quads was a big failure. It didn't do jack shit for quads. I just end up going ATG which stretches some muscles (dunno which, glutes, hips, hamstrings or someshit) and i come out of the hole strong, and most of the time quads just chill and go along for the ride without much involvement! I think I use more quads in BS actually, but I suck at BS and have given up on them almost.

I want to use the BSS to build symmetric leg strength. which i haven't done using FS or BS .. not glutes!!

what's a good (lower) back exercise for me btw?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 12, 2012, 09:44:06 am
you can shift the focus of BSS within your leg by moving your forward foot closer to or farther from the bench. closer = more quad, farther = more hip. have you considered doing TKE's or something as part of the warm up? you might just have trouble activating your quads at all, "feeling" them working.

for low back it's all about hypers and reverse hypers. you can do reverse hypers on a kitchen table.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 09:50:25 am
you can shift the focus of BSS within your leg by moving your forward foot closer to or farther from the bench. closer = more quad, farther = more hip.

Will experiment with this, thanks.

Quote
have you considered doing TKE's or something as part of the warm up?

Never heard of those before. i'll try them out.

Quote
you might just have trouble activating your quads at all, "feeling" them working.

well dunno. it might be a dysfunction. It doesn't show up on FS. my FS is pretty symmetric (except right hamstring gets some kind of pathology at the bottom of the movement which I don't understand very well). But at least to the eye FS looks symmetric. BS is another story altogether. I'm so L leg dominant on BS it's day and night. I literally shift the weight to my L leg coming out of the hole, it's that blatant.

Quote
for low back it's all about hypers and reverse hypers. you can do reverse hypers on a kitchen table.

hmm k.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 10:27:05 am
Here is a summary of what i'm going on about -

So BSS will help both FS and BS. It will help BS the most because of its corrective effect on asymmetry. It will help FS too because more leg strength -> better FS form. My current FS being limited by leg strength as i'm very strong out of the bottom of the hole but weak at finishing the last 1/3.

Does this make sense?

My goals are still much the same - I like FS as my favorite squat exercise and will continue to use it as my main squat with the goal of hitting a FS ~ 1.9xBW, BS ~ 2xBW.

I just see correcting imbalance as neccesary for going further because i'm currently limited by the imbalance from doing backsquats well. And FS are limited by leg strength but unfortunately I can't see a way to improve leg strength using FS alone. I seem to have turned the FS into one that doesn't emphasis the quads somehow and it is the BS for me which is the more leg dominant exercise. But the problem with the BS is my form is horrendous due to the assymetry. So hopefully once symmetry is restored, I can use the BS to add tons of leg strength which will carry over to the FS as well.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 12, 2012, 11:36:07 am
I remember Kelly saying a good front squat number is 80% of your back squat number in VJB 2.0
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 12, 2012, 11:54:25 pm
Mad DOMS in glutes post BSS. Wasn't expecting that but looks like you were right raptor. Nothing in quads (or hams for that matter). Maybe it's not heavy enough yet to make my quads sore? :(

Kelly is setting the bar low there, 80% of BS is pretty inefficient, maybe if you use a belt on BS and don't go very deep and get bent over a lot? Dunno. Mine is closer to 100% lol. I like it that way. A good oly lifter has a ratio closer to 90-95% from what i've read though.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 13, 2012, 01:19:16 pm
Yup... it's the glutes for the BSS.

I've did some cable pulls with the back of the knee two days ago for the VMO... was pretty good. This one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrUOEwTDbqA

Pretty lame but...

Listen, if I were you I'd do something like a 3x5 back squat (full) and then finish up with a 2x20 quarter squat for the quads. I'm actually doing that (+these in the video) in my volume day, but I'm using 8x5 + 2x20 partial leg presses for quad development.

If you have a slope (a hill or whatever) near you you could also do backward sprints uphill... or even pull your car going backwards (or a sled or something).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 14, 2012, 02:20:31 am
Yup... it's the glutes for the BSS.

Quite so. But I think in hindsight I was too forward from the bench, so I made it glute dominant? I'll experiment with positioning and try to nail down. I did find as the day went on there was some slight, very faint quad doms too. I never get quad fatigue from gym work - only from sprinting so that's still a good sign i'm on the right track.

Oh and the other thing I wanna make a note of. The left side of my abs are very sore. Like painfully, not doms maybe like a strain or something. I like this cause I always knew my left side of abs are very weak for some reason. So BSS might cure that imbalance too. Fucking A - that's not a bad thing at all if it fixes all these symmetry problems I have.

Quote
Listen, if I were you I'd do something like a 3x5 back squat (full) and then finish up with a 2x20 quarter squat for the quads. I'm actually doing that (+these in the video) in my volume day, but I'm using 8x5 + 2x20 partial leg presses for quad development.

I can't BS though otherwise i'd go for it. BS shows up a horrible bilateral imbalance. FS don't that's why I'm going to keep focusing on FS. Hopefully BSS will cure my (leg) imbalance so I can use BS later though? But supposing BSS makes my leg stronger then why the fuck would I even bother with BS then lol. And i'm not going to risk my knees by doing heavy partial squats right now while cutting because I already push them too much as it is with all the front squats and heavy partials will punish my knees even more than they already are.

Quote
If you have a slope (a hill or whatever) near you you could also do backward sprints uphill... or even pull your car going backwards (or a sled or something).

This I can try and I will give it a shot as a conditioning thing as well. Thanks for the ideas.

So today i'll try the TKEs (thanks lbss), closer hopefully quad dominant BSSs and some conditioning work incorporating some extra quad work. lets see how it goes.

i'm almost considering going full adarqui mode and embracing reverse hypertrophy ideals. I hate that bileteral exercises haven't done much for me at all and im close to doing walking lunges with 30lb weights while holding a knife btw my teeth.


Back Squat ×
Front Squat ✓
BSS ✓
Pendlay Rows ✓
Good mornings ✓

I shied away from rows because I was told they fatigue the lower back too much esp if you're backsquatting & deadlifting. And since i'm not backsquatting or deadlifting, rows are good because they will strengthen my back and make be a better bencher, chinuper etc. Ditto with good mornings - i was a hell of a good morning'er thanks to all the squat mornings ive done in the past. Time to get all that back strength back. I want a big solid lower back and GMs and PRs is the way i'll retrain and build back strength.

BSS for fixing my strength imbalance. This one is a no brainer. Legs are unilteral, why persist with the bilateral exercise which has clearly not done the job - out go backsquats into the bin.

Front squats i still like as a squat for aesthetic reasons but I dont know how useful this exercise is anymore. It has no doubt helped me to correct squatmorningness but since i'm not backsquatting that's not a huge plus. I wanted to use it to build big strong legs and i'm sure that front squats do that so long as you do them right. But mine aren't leg dominant and there isn't much more to say about it. If my legs are stronger I can front squat more. But the converse doesn't seem to have happened - being able to front squat more hasnt made my legs stronger. I might push my FS up to 120kg and then just go on maintenance mode while focusing on bss.

So going forward - more unilateral work for legs using bss. More back specific work using gms and pendlay rows. maintain fs and bs. Give it a few months, see what happens. Hopefully good things.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d5
Post by: entropy on December 14, 2012, 02:52:54 am
Training
BP 1x80, 1x82.5, 1x85, 1x87.5, 0x90, 1x90
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 14, 2012, 07:33:54 am
If you're using the BSS to fix imbalances, do your weak leg first and limit the volume of the strong leg to that of the weak one (if you do 4 reps with the weak leg, do 4 reps with the strong leg).

You could also do light weight, big volume partial squats. Think 20 rep sets 1/2-1/4 squats for VMO development. That's what I do (I use the leg press though) after your main (BSS in this case) exercise which is already pretty glute dominant the way you do it. If you use lightweight in the partial squat then your bilateral imbalance shouldn't be so obvious since you're not going extremely heavy where one part (one leg) will really push and the other will really slack.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 15, 2012, 01:01:58 am
Will do. Thank you.


My abs have started to feel better. Not sure whether I should take the weekend off training to allow it to fully heal up or just train and hope it's nothing.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d6
Post by: entropy on December 15, 2012, 09:07:57 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 1x112.5, 0x120
BS 3x90, 2x100, 2x110, 3x100, 5x90
BSS 3x30, 2x6x40, 6Rx40
WC 3xBW, 1x88.8, 1x93.8, 1x103.8, 0x108.8

BW: 77kg

FS notes:
On a better day I would have got that 120kg PR .. but today I couldn't lock it out. I put it down to residual quad fatigue from weds BSS.

BS notes:
Filmed some sets from the front showing the lack of symmetry which i'm hoping BSS will fix.

BSS notes:
Got 6 challenging reps with right leg and used that same weight for L leg which found it ezy in comparison. So the imbalance is clearly there. Lets see what the BSS can do for me in fixing this problem. Did an extra set with the R leg. Next time will do 2 more sets with the R leg.

WC notes:
Just can't lock out that +30kg PR damn... but I will one day. In the meantime I was messing around with 1arm chins using 2 fingers from the other hand for a slight amount of help and found I could pretty much do the chin. Maybe if I work hard on it, i could get that 1arm chin as well. Not worth much when you're approaching 165lb BW but still it's something. I haven't felt such a burn in my bicepts from any other exercise which is cool.

Warmed up with TKEs. I like these will keep doing them.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 16, 2012, 12:08:24 am
Wicked doms in glutes again. Thinking of re-starting daily TM since weight loss has stalled for a few weeks.

update - I've got doms in my L leg. Doh. That's the wrong leg lol. I want doms in my weaker R leg :( I'm guessing the FS, BS are so L dominant that the additional BSS with the L leg led to DOMS. And yet R leg which is the weaker leg has no DOMS whatsover.

oh snap i think i know what's going on. I bet i'm managing to do the BSS with the weak leg with the strong leg. I need to consciously work on using only the weak leg out of the bottom. note to self.

Also doms in right calf.  Doms in lower back too.


I dont have dbs but I really wanna do more unilateral work with not just lower body but also upper body. i've known for a while that my bench is limited by my R side being weaker than my L for example. Really tempted to join a gym just for access to dbs. I remember trying using the bb with uneven loading, so if i'm focusing on R side, i'd load the L side lighter. Might try that again. I bet i can get my bench moving by bringing up my weak side. Hmmmmmm.


omgs damn this hunger. im finding it extremely hard to stay on the diet while im surrounded by temptations........ i thought getting abs would be hard work, but i didn't know i would have to be so hungry :(
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 17, 2012, 08:16:28 am
Came off the rails pretty bad. Think i might stop cutting now, i'm annoyed with myself for not taking ECA to deal with hunger which lead to bad binging. I held off using the stimulant stack cause I wanted to get down to 75kg first since i was "saving" them for when I "really need" them later on. Which in hindsight was now. It's my body it's had enough of dieting and just leads me down to insatiable binging.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on December 17, 2012, 08:23:24 am
At least you can add some muscle now :strong:
I wouldn't worry too much about it bro. Just clean bulk for a few months up to low 80s or something and than try and cut down again. This time you'll have more strength and muscle anyway so when you cut down you'll look heaps better at 75kg.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 17, 2012, 08:27:51 am
Any idea what's your bodyfat right now? I know I've asked in the past but are you still dropping down on the bodyfat %?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 17, 2012, 09:13:58 am
At least you can add some muscle now :strong:
I wouldn't worry too much about it bro. Just clean bulk for a few months up to low 80s or something and than try and cut down again. This time you'll have more strength and muscle anyway so when you cut down you'll look heaps better at 75kg.

I wish I was in a position to add mass now! But reality is I still have a fair bit of back bacon left to shed lol. If only I could slice that shit off with a knife. If I clean bulked now I would probably just get really fat again since it would just increase (even only slightly) my current bodyfat which is too high. it would make more sense to be stopping a bulk at my current bodyfat than it would to start one here.

raptor i'm probably around 15% give or take. Maybe as low as 13% and as high as 16%. I dunno exactly. I have a full flexed 4 pac. but still got a fair of fat around my gut and lower back to lose.

Should I just take the ECA now and see what happens? Or save it for later when getting from 75kg to a ripped 72kg?


Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 17, 2012, 10:47:33 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x107.5, 0x110, 3x100, 2x96, 2x90, 2x60

FS notes:
I'm at a loss at understanding this lack of symmetry -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl_kVJUKlAE

any ideas? What's going on here??


Ok i'm trying to get to the bottom of this so to speak. I filmed some sets with the empty bar. Perfectly symmetrical. Might have to do a few more of these experiments and see if I can narrow down what the problem is. If it's flexibility or whatever, wouldn't it show itself everytime regardless of clothing/weight?

so over the new few days im gonna work hard on figuring out what's this asymmetry. maybe its the bar. when ive got enough weight on there, it may be that because its bent or whatever, or the plates are uneven, that it forces me out of position.

possible hypotheses

could be a combo of factors like 10% of the first, 20% of the 2nd etc. But i'll work at it like a scientist and go from the effects back to pinpointing the cause (s).

update: So my next workout will be at a gym. I know one which should have fairly new equipment so hopefully the bars are straight and the floor level etc. I'll train there and film some sets and see whether it's a equipment thing.

I'm also gonna take the time to get some unilateral upper body work in with dbs and see how that goes.

excited :)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 17, 2012, 03:38:13 pm
To me it looks like some lack of flexibility that's pulling one of your legs out of alignment or something. It could be weakness too, but you should feel that yourself.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 17, 2012, 04:07:02 pm
suppose its flexibility.. what shud i do to fix it?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- day of PRs
Post by: entropy on December 19, 2012, 08:02:00 am
Training
FS 5x100 (PR), 5x96
BS 6x100, 6x96
BSS 2x6x45 (PR), 2x6Rx45 (PR)
OHP 2x5x57, 8x50

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
I've made some changes and they've paid off nicely. I switched L-R orientation, focus on videos taken from behind, and use the reflection of the glass infront of me for feedback in maintaining symmetry. The PR was nice too, i didn't feel like it was a huge mental effort, just sort of came naturally, which was unusually odd but very cool. The only bad rep was the 5th which I had to muscle up uglyly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI9nEsssNCA

Plan is to get a nice clean 100x5 next week before trying to add any more weight on the top fiver. I think a pretty 100+ fiver pretty much converts to a 120kg single so that should cover my year end goal.

BS notes:
Work in progress. My right leg is weak so it shoots in out of the hole - that needs to be cleaned up.

BSS notes:
Bit wobbly with R leg. Did 2 extra sets with R - making it 2x the volume of the stronger L leg. It still may not be enough cos if my FS/BS are really L dominant then R might need even more sets? Well we'll see.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 20, 2012, 12:17:29 am
Woke up looking a lot leaner but the scale doesn't show much change nor does waist circumference. Maybe water retention or something? not sure, until scale/waist changes i'm not taking much stock

R quad doms ✓
L quad doms ✘
Lower back doms ✓
Glutes doms ✓

I'm guessing lower back doms are to do with BS since it's been a while since i backsquatted.

R quad doms and no L quad doms is frustrating me. I guess i'll add a few more sets to the R leg BSS - but i'm already doing 2x the volume of L leg so wtf. maybe i just need to stop using the L leg completely while bringing the R leg up by stopping front and backsquatting for a while but I don't really wanna do that.



Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2012, 01:43:37 am
I'm not sure if doing more volume for one leg is the smart way to go... I'd rather do the same volume for both but start with the weak leg first.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 20, 2012, 01:52:44 am
Well then the other leg wouldn't catch up because each time both legs would get a lil bit stronger but the strong one will always be ahead of the weak one? I do start with the weak one first though. And then do the same number of reps with the strong leg even though I could easily do more!

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2012, 02:27:25 am
You can't think like that. The effort for the weak leg will be bigger than the effort for the strong leg and slowly they will catch up.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 20, 2012, 03:47:19 am
aite so how about this, once ive got 6x60 for both legs, i keep the stronger leg on 60 while progressing the weaker leg to say 70. Then progress them both from there at the same rate

 :derp:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - bss
Post by: entropy on December 20, 2012, 03:56:25 am
thinking out aloud .. what is the bss? it's a kind of unilateral exercise but not really since it's not a true single leg exercise that is kind of a squat but not really because it's not below parallel. so for it to be an effective leg exercise you kind of need to be lifting a weight >> 1/2*FS_max. Why? because being a partial squat, by giving up depth we use more weight. and by giving up true unilateralism we can use more weight than 1/2 the bilateral weight. so i should be looking at building up to say 100x6 on BSS to get something out of the exercise. hows my logik?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 20, 2012, 04:18:55 am
aite so how about this, once ive got 6x60 for both legs, i keep the stronger leg on 60 while progressing the weaker leg to say 70. Then progress them both from there at the same rate

 :derp:

No. You use the same weight for both legs, with the weak leg first. This way the weak leg gets to his maximum number of repetitions while the strong leg gets "some" training effect since it still does work but it doesn't go to failure like the weak leg does.

thinking out aloud .. what is the bss? it's a kind of unilateral exercise but not really since it's not a true single leg exercise that is kind of a squat but not really because it's not below parallel. so for it to be an effective leg exercise you kind of need to be lifting a weight >> 1/2*FS_max. Why? because being a partial squat, by giving up depth we use more weight. and by giving up true unilateralism we can use more weight than 1/2 the bilateral weight. so i should be looking at building up to say 100x6 on BSS to get something out of the exercise. hows my logik?

You think too much... you shouldn't worry about correlating exercises. You shouldn't think "If I front squat 100 kg does that mean that I can do the same work back squatting 120 kg or BSS-ing with 50 kg dumbbells?"

Too many parameters to correlate these exercises. You just need to worry about improving whatever lift you're aiming to improve. If you're improving then you're getting closer to your objective of improving athleticism.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 20, 2012, 10:21:40 am
do the weak leg to technical failure, then match reps with the strong leg. same volume for each but you're not exacerbating the difference between sides.

for another approach, go read adarq's journal over the past few weeks. he's been doing unilateral sets to failure and just ignoring the imbalance, with the idea that the strong limb getting stronger will also help the weak limb get stronger. there's some basis there: people who injure a leg and can only exercise one can get strength gains in the injured leg -- or at least prevent more serious losses -- by doing that strong-side only work.

not that you need more food for thought. you just need to squat. RHYME!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 20, 2012, 10:06:32 pm
Thank you gents, all good infos. Will keep it in mind as always. I was due for an epic catch up session of front squatting, back squatting, bss, weighted chins, bench press, sprinting, hiit, jumping but i'm helping my father out on a renovation today so i'll probably be spent moving around heavy blocks of limestone all day. we'll see how it goes. i think kids like to use the phrase FML in times like this .. it's all good.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 21, 2012, 04:59:30 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x110, 1x115, 0x120
BS 3x90, 2x100, 2x110
BP 1x77.5, 1x80, 1x82.5, 1x85, 6x75, 7x70
WC 3xBW, 3x83.3, 2x93.3, 1x98.3, 1x100.8, 1x103.3, 2x98.3, 5x93.3

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
My ego led me astray (yet again). I shuda gone for 118 or something for a 1/2kg PR instead of 120. Next time will do a better job picking the top weight. And another thing, I should try to get more volume in weights around 110kg cause I can do those without getting folded over.

BS notes:
Shit shit shit. When I think i've won ground, squat takes it back the next workout.

BP notes:
Finally got around to BP in over 10 days (!). Have lost some strength, rebuild time.

WC notes:
I didn't do any dubious reps - every single one I exploded way over the bar. That's how I like em. Will try to get more reps with 20kg next time, and keep in that explode range. Then once i've got some decent volume built up, try to set a new PR. 

I feel like trying to dunk. I haven't dunked in like 4 months or something. I doubt I can even jump that high but I just have the itch. Will go try out in the outdoor court now!

update - damn!!!!!!!!

I was running late for picking up my sister from the airport who is come home for holidays. On the way there, i stopped at the court for a few minutes. I didn't expect to even get one dunk. But on the very first attempt, no warmup, landed it easily. Then tried another one but harder and I got higher and dunked it even better. Then tried a SVJ dunk - got that too!! That was only a dream for me and now it's reality! So exciting!
 :goodjobbro:
:wowthatwasnutswtf:
:almostascoolasnyancat:

uploading a video now brb
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: adarqui on December 21, 2012, 08:03:07 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x110, 1x115, 0x120
BS 3x90, 2x100, 2x110
BP 1x77.5, 1x80, 1x82.5, 1x85, 6x75, 7x70
WC 3xBW, 3x83.3, 2x93.3, 1x98.3, 1x100.8, 1x103.3, 2x98.3, 5x93.3

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
My ego led me astray (yet again). I shuda gone for 118 or something for a 1/2kg PR instead of 120. Next time will do a better job picking the top weight. And another thing, I should try to get more volume in weights around 110kg cause I can do those without getting folded over.

BS notes:
Shit shit shit. When I think i've won ground, squat takes it back the next workout.

BP notes:
Finally got around to BP in over 10 days (!). Have lost some strength, rebuild time.

WC notes:
I didn't do any dubious reps - every single one I exploded way over the bar. That's how I like em. Will try to get more reps with 20kg next time, and keep in that explode range. Then once i've got some decent volume built up, try to set a new PR. 

I feel like trying to dunk. I haven't dunked in like 4 months or something. I doubt I can even jump that high but I just have the itch. Will go try out in the outdoor court now!

update - damn!!!!!!!!

I was running late for picking up my sister from the airport who is come home for holidays. On the way there, i stopped at the court for a few minutes. I didn't expect to even get one dunk. But on the very first attempt, no warmup, landed it easily. Then tried another one but harder and I got higher and dunked it even better. Then tried a SVJ dunk - got that too!! That was only a dream for me and now it's reality! So exciting!
 :goodjobbro:
:wowthatwasnutswtf:
:almostascoolasnyancat:

uploading a video now brb

wtf? sick@!$!@

i can't imagine not dunking for 4 months and somehow doing what you did..

you are now officially in the kingfish SVJ dunk club.

congrats man.

were you feeling bouncy or what? I mean you must have felt really good when you walked on that court?

 :ibjumping: :ibsquatting: :wowthatwasnutswtf: :almostascoolasnyancat: :personal-record:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 21, 2012, 08:29:10 am
Being light helps eh?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 21, 2012, 08:47:15 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x110, 1x115, 0x120
BS 3x90, 2x100, 2x110
BP 1x77.5, 1x80, 1x82.5, 1x85, 6x75, 7x70
WC 3xBW, 3x83.3, 2x93.3, 1x98.3, 1x100.8, 1x103.3, 2x98.3, 5x93.3

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
My ego led me astray (yet again). I shuda gone for 118 or something for a 1/2kg PR instead of 120. Next time will do a better job picking the top weight. And another thing, I should try to get more volume in weights around 110kg cause I can do those without getting folded over.

BS notes:
Shit shit shit. When I think i've won ground, squat takes it back the next workout.

BP notes:
Finally got around to BP in over 10 days (!). Have lost some strength, rebuild time.

WC notes:
I didn't do any dubious reps - every single one I exploded way over the bar. That's how I like em. Will try to get more reps with 20kg next time, and keep in that explode range. Then once i've got some decent volume built up, try to set a new PR. 

I feel like trying to dunk. I haven't dunked in like 4 months or something. I doubt I can even jump that high but I just have the itch. Will go try out in the outdoor court now!

update - damn!!!!!!!!

I was running late for picking up my sister from the airport who is come home for holidays. On the way there, i stopped at the court for a few minutes. I didn't expect to even get one dunk. But on the very first attempt, no warmup, landed it easily. Then tried another one but harder and I got higher and dunked it even better. Then tried a SVJ dunk - got that too!! That was only a dream for me and now it's reality! So exciting!
 :goodjobbro:
:wowthatwasnutswtf:
:almostascoolasnyancat:

uploading a video now brb

wtf? sick@!$!@

i can't imagine not dunking for 4 months and somehow doing what you did..

you are now officially in the kingfish SVJ dunk club.

congrats man.

were you feeling bouncy or what? I mean you must have felt really good when you walked on that court?

 :ibjumping: :ibsquatting: :wowthatwasnutswtf: :almostascoolasnyancat: :personal-record:

Thanks bruv!!!!!

i wasn't feeling especially bouncy but I just felt like dunking for some reason. like a craving. I haven't felt like that in months. I was pretty tired today didn't sleep well and hd a long training session before going to the playground. Was late picking up my sis so only had like 2 minutes to throw down before jumping in the car and driving 30-40 mins!

I can't describe the feeling though.. amazing........ omgs! still on a high :D

Being light helps eh?

kind of but i was pretty light for most of my life but i could never dunk. like even in highschool when i playd a lot of ball, i cud touch the rim but no chance dunking. After school and into university I become sedentary with office job etc and gained a lot of weight (topping out at 112kg/250lb 2 years ago). I've lost some 35kg since then but dunno, training and weight loss has gone well together. I couldn't have done it without one or the other.


video on its way .. might be a while though connection isn't super fast

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca7I0We4Cts
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 21, 2012, 09:54:30 am
 :lololol:  :ibjumping: :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on December 21, 2012, 10:27:38 am
I'd really freak out if I saw Jesus dunking.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 23, 2012, 11:47:17 pm
BW: 76.8kg/169.31lb

Finally a whoosh. I've been strict for 6 days and the scale finally got under 77kg. I have decided that since I can't do carb reloads properly, I shan't do them at all. Instead I had a larger carb meal last night for dinner and left it at that. Much better, didn't lead to any crazy binging. I think the reason the scale finally moved is because of the free meal? Which is a cool side effect.

Somehow i'm managing to navigate the dieting landmine that is this time of the year without crashing over. Actually doing really well, feels like I could go the distance this time around. I think the extra motivation of seeing the effect my training/nutrition has had on my athleticism is giving me more reason to stay the course.

edit. oh and i'm hoping to get close to 75kg by the end of the year if I get a coupla whooshes. But we'll see what happens. Might have to do some extra conditioning since I haven't been doing any lately.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on December 23, 2012, 11:52:32 pm
sick, you're 6'3 i'm 5'8 and i weigh 10 lb more than you... that's how fat i am...  i dunno if i should cut or maintain and go for more strength (maybe hit 385 full squat) before cutting.  i guess cutting doesn't mean i can't still gain strength.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 24, 2012, 12:04:54 am
sick, you're 6'3 i'm 5'8 and i weigh 10 lb more than you... that's how fat i am...  i dunno if i should cut or maintain and go for more strength (maybe hit 385 full squat) before cutting.  i guess cutting doesn't mean i can't still gain strength.

ha yeah its freaky. if i were you, i'd put weight gain on hold, try to maintain or slightly reduce your bodyweight (so say a 10% deficit). And keep pushing your lifts up til you reach your desired milestone. Whether it's 330, 350 or 385, whichever one can get to without stalling hard. Then start the cut for real. Going from a bulk straight into a cut is a mind-fuck because you get so used to easy PRs and then they become just that much harder and rarer on a cut so it's hard to deal with psychologically unless you've been accustomed to training under maintenance or a slight deficit first.

So diet wise go to caloric maintenance -> slight deficit -> moderate deficit. Training try to push your lifts up for as long as you can, then go to maintenance when PRs vanish and it becomes a struggle to make new ground without risking form and injury.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 24, 2012, 01:58:49 am
Training
FS 5x101 (PR), 5x97
BS 3x90, 2x100, 5x102.5, 6x100, 6x97.5
BSS 2x6x50 (PR), 6x50 (R leg), 7x50 (R leg, PR)

BP 6x76, 6x74.5, 6x72.5, 5x70 (WG), 5x67.5, 5x65

BW: 76.8kg/169.31lb (PR)

FS notes:
I tried this new thing - front squats are exhausting on upper back, obviously. But what I was finding is when sets go on for ages, you get really fatigued just from standing there with a bar. So I tried to get thru the set quicker. It worked, was easier. But I found my form was breaking down a bit from having to rush thru the reps. So i think there is a sweet spot where you do it just quick enough, but not too quick so that form is good and excess fatigue does not occur. Good discovery.

BS notes:
In warmups with 90kg: SHIT secret unlocked! Basically at the bottom of the bs - i shud let my hips psuh me down, kinda liek what happens in front squats. I wasn't doing this til now, but having done it ive noticed it gives me that extra depth which I was missing in BS. LBSS might be happier now with my depth i think.

I wanted 6 reps of 102.5 but got 5. Would have got an ugly 6th (form on 5th was breaking down) so didn't bother. Next time 102.5x6 and hopefully 105x5 as well? Maybe we'll see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdl7cj_f70w


BSS notes:
I tried using my lifting shoes for these - big mistake, was very unstable and wobbly on the bench leg. L leg is beasting, finding all the weights easy, even with brief rests following R leg worksets. For weak R leg I did 2x volume of L leg again. Not sure if I wanna keep up this R skewed training but like i've said before, R leg doesn't mind, it's L which gets the doms .. which makes no sense but that's what we have yup. Oh wait, maybe it does make sense! L leg is more of a n00b, R leg is intermediate. So R leg is chilling and recovering ezy because it's on that newbie flex. That makes sense right? Whatever.


Was in two minds whether to do concentric heavy front squats or BSS. Decided to stick with BSS on this high volume day. I can do the concentrics on the higher CNS intensity days. Either way, i'm confident i'll get that 120 front squat PR by friday week.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on December 24, 2012, 08:28:01 am
I envy you , in the good way! That approach was always my ideal scenario. Pick a workout scheme ( FS + cutting in your case ) , stick with it for a long time, then go to the court after a long time and enjoy the benefits. I know it's not even right , you ( we ) should keep up with jumping to maintain efficiency/mobility needed for ME jumps, its better injury-wise too.
But that feeling , hitting the court after months and being a totally different (better ) athlete, priceless. Hope it makes sense!
Keep up keeping up!  :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 24, 2012, 09:23:11 pm
I envy you , in the good way! That approach was always my ideal scenario. Pick a workout scheme ( FS + cutting in your case ) , stick with it for a long time, then go to the court after a long time and enjoy the benefits.  I know it's not even right , you ( we ) should keep up with jumping to maintain efficiency/mobility needed for ME jumps, its better injury-wise too.
But that feeling , hitting the court after months and being a totally different (better ) athlete, priceless. Hope it makes sense!
Keep up keeping up!  :highfive:

Thanks vag! That makes perfect sense. The reason I haven't kept up jumping is because i've been juggling enough things already in training and playing basketball and jumping wasn't a priority in the end. If i got a bit of extra recovery ability i'd put it towards building strength/muscle or improving conditioning to aid fat loss! Those just happened to be the main goal. But I do wish i could do more things in training I'm just terribly limited by the cut to stick to a few things only.

I used to love playing ball but I had to give it up because I couldn't improve my lifts and cut and do everything else too.

The other thing is, when i was in middle of the long cut, my legs were tired from all the squatting and conditioning (daily cardio + 3x hiit/SS)  I was doing. If I went down to the basketball court, i was sure i'd find i was jumping poorly. Which makes me feel bad because as you might know the feeling, there is nothing worse than doing a max effort jump and being well below expectation. That feel sucks. So mentally I wasn't interested in failure and decided it was just better to avoid failure by avoiding jumping altogether lol.

I bet if I had kept up the jumping i'd be jumping higher now though. You're definitely right about that. I'd have bigger/stronger calves as well.  Guess it was just a trade off. Thankfully it hasn't hurt my VJ though which gives me hope that I have a lot of potential left in me when i've all the ducks in a row. Thinking when I finish cutting, push up my lifts a bit more, start doing plyos and eat more food i'll be jumping a lot higher maybe. we'll see.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 24, 2012, 10:59:37 pm
I've got doms on doms today. Doms in glutes, lower back, shoulders etc.  Glad I decided to bp in the end because I can never bp well the day after front squats anyways. And it would have ruined front squats on weds so that was the right call.

Still keeping a deficit even while eating holiday food which i'm pleased about. I took a page out of KF of fasting prior leaving space for higher cal meals. I'm finding having a lot of self control with portions and not binging as well. 7 days compliant, have no doubt i'll set a PR in days compliant.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Kingfish on December 25, 2012, 12:01:06 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdl7cj_f70w


Nice to see tall people squat full with good form.  :headbang:

Get out of that twig weight and lift more volumes.  Good things happen the stronger you get - you also have more tissues to absorb the impacts of landing as you squat more weight.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 25, 2012, 03:50:32 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdl7cj_f70w


Nice to see tall people squat full with good form.  :headbang:

Thank you!  :highfive:

Quote
Get out of that twig weight and lift more volumes.  Good things happen the stronger you get - you also have more tissues to absorb the impacts of landing as you squat more weight.

Will do as soon as I can. I can't wait to do more volume and gain some mass both.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 25, 2012, 03:39:10 pm
Absolutely destroyed my diet on xmas day lol. Maybe I'll get some nice PRs tomorrow? Lets see.

My idiot friends convinced me to drink a 750mL double strength dare espresso iced coffee at 3:30am just before going home to sleep. Now i'm completely wired and the last thing I wanna do is go to bed. It's out of revenge because apparently I introduced them to dare a few years back and they've been hopelessly addicted since so they wanted to get back at me for putting them onto the stuff. I was hooked myself for a while and swore off the stuff but man it's like liquid crack. So smooth, so good.

Exciting news. Might be joining a new gym with plenty of equipment. I saw they have dbs that go over 80kg and a few squat racks etc. Should be good for training in the summer when it's too hot to workout outside in my home gym.

The only catch is I need them to waive the high initial membership nonsense fees. Supposing I can manage that, then I shud be training there for at least the next 2-3 months.

One key motivation is I want to try out dbs for unilateral work, esp for upper body since my weak side doesn't want to catch up with the strong one on bench press etc. I notice my left pec is much stronger/bigger than my right one. That should be fixable with dbs.

They also have the usual array of machines. Which I want to try out. Maybe i'll get a lot of mileage out of the leg press? Perhaps the single leg press for building quad mass on the weak side.. worth a try..

and i can finally do some beach work and build my guns better than just with weighted chins .. hopefully dbs help there

I'm also finally gonna be able to do conditioning on a bike which should be low impact enough on joints while allowing me to implement a proper tabata. Should get me real fit very quickly. Maybe even try the c2 rower for conditioning..

What else is exciting .. i guess i'll be able to find out how badly my issues with flooring/bent bar at home affects my form on the main lifts when I train with better equipment. Although they don't seem to have any power racks and having instead to use their squat racks with fixed safeties might not suit my proportions? will have to see. I don't mind continuing to bs/fs at home though. if only they had bumpers I cud just drop them.. but that's not gonna happen in an ordinary gym..

But all of this will give me a new fresh stimulus to training since things have been getting a bit stale :)

Title: Re: chasing athleticism - whooooooooosh
Post by: entropy on December 26, 2012, 02:54:20 am
Body Comp

(http://i.imgur.com/T6j4q.png)

BW: 75.5kg / 166.449lb (PR)

Uh yea wtf!! How is that for the last so many weeks (5-6?) i've been stuck very frustratingly at around 77kg and then just b00m - it disappears? It makes no sense, esp with the sheer amount of food I ate last night lol.

Somehow yesterdays xmas day excesses have triggered a massive downward scale movement. Whoosh? I've read about this happening, quite bizarrely that a free meal triggers the whoosh / delayed long term fat loss effect or something. Let's see if it sticks over the next coupla days. I'd be more convinced if I had lost an inch from my waist overnight but that's not happened .. anyway this is so close to my goal it's ridiculous. I'll do a final end of year progress summary with before and after details - hopefully having gotten sub 75kg (provided the whoosh is real and today's bodyweight drop persists).

Any takers on bodyfat estimates? I know pics are not very reliable but ball park is fine. My guess is around 13-15%.


Training
OHP 2x5x57.5, 8x50

FS 5x102 (PR), 5x98
BS 5x102.5, 6x97.5

OHP notes:
That's ~76% of my BW for sets of 5 across! I'm now to make 1/2 kg jumps for a while.

FS notes:
I kinda know a way to make my form better but I didn't get a chance to try it on the top set. Next time. Plan was to do the first 3 reps rapid fire. Take my time on the last 2? I want better form even for a PR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2q260wHvjA

BS notes:
These sets were very difficult. The first 5x102.5 was a true 5RM today. I had to grind out that last rep with every ounce of my being at the risk of being injured if I failed. Not good.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 28, 2012, 04:59:05 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x07.5, 1x112.5, 1x115
BS 5x60, 3x90, 2x100, 3x107.5 (depth was high tho), 5x100 (ok depth i think)
BP 1x70, 1x75, 4x80, 5x75
DIPZ 3x5xBW (new exercise, very shaky on these)
BCU 10, 8, 6, 5, 4
Single DB bp 8x20, 6x24, 2x6x22R
Single leg press 3x8xwhatever the plates were on
foam roller on quads

BW: 76kg / 167.551lb

I think that's the lot, unless i'm forgetting some exercises. I was scheduled to do weighted chinups but i didn't take my chains with me so just did bw ones.. will probably do weighted next workout. oh and I didn't do BSS - didn't wanna stack it in front of everyone on my first day at the new gym. Did single leg leg press instead. Probably the same shit anyways.


FS notes:
Well it looks like my form problems are in fact to do with my home gym setup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJAtTP63fYk

BS notes:
BS form improved greatly from change of scenery.

Upper body notes:
So my flat bb bench liked the new bar. But all this training i've done at home has put a definite strength imbalance there and it wasn't reasonable to expect everything to be perfect so soon.  I used the dbs to work on my weak side, doing a few more sets. Will give it a bit of time and hopefully I can bring up R side and then i'll get my bench press nice and symmetrical. Oh and dips. I was shaky on these, new exercise and all. Lets see what this does for my upper body.


So I will prob get another 2 sessions in this gym before going on to gym B. The barbells were very nice. Expensive ones. Was sick using a decent one for a change.  In another note, my waist did finally catch up to the scale - i've lost a full 1/2" making my waist 32.5" which is cool.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 28, 2012, 10:50:16 am
nice to go away and come back to find people have been killing shit. you're right about the BS depth, nice job.

bf% guess is tough without a back shot, but i'd say about 12-13%. abs wouldn't be coming in at 15% unless you carry all your fat on your back.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 29, 2012, 12:09:00 am
nice to go away and come back to find people have been killing shit. you're right about the BS depth, nice job.

bf% guess is tough without a back shot, but i'd say about 12-13%. abs wouldn't be coming in at 15% unless you carry all your fat on your back.

Thank you. I've had abs for a while now even when I was heavier than now. So I think it's the latter - my body has cleverly stored fat in places I can't easily see. This might also go some way in explaining why even at my heaviest I never looked "that fat" - like when people say they carry "it" well.


Doms in lats and upper back. I only did unweighted chinups (for lats) which should be really easy for me?? Shrug. Unless the dips & 1 hand db presses contributed too. No idea.

update. doms in lower back and abs also.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 29, 2012, 11:03:57 pm
Waist under 32.5" now. I need to find the motivation to finish this neverending cut. How long will take me to lose the remaining 2.5"? Could I do it by mid Feb? Is that realistic. Am aiming for 9% bodyfat which should be a ~30" waist and perhaps the ridiculously low BW of 72kg/159lb.

So I think I need to man up and just go 100% laser focused strict mode and get this thing over and done with. Come January I will string together 2 instances of 15 days of solid uninterrupted compliance to diet, while adding in conditioning, then i'm sure I can get to 73kg by 1st Feb.

Conditioning newbie gains are still there to be taken advantage of - and they'll burn a fair bit of bodyfat once I do them regularly. I've not done conditioning regularly for ages. Maybe averaging 1-2 a month now. More recently i've been doing fasted TM on rest days which is working well not bothering knees, so that stays too. I've noticed that fasting on training days is a bad idea. But i've been doing it ok on rest days. So will keep doing that too.

I've got access to a gym now so I can train better with a variety of different exercises which weren't available to me before. DBs are gonna feature heavily in upper body training. As will machines for conditioning (think rowing and cycling). I will also explore dips which I have never been equipped to do at home. Various rowing movements like T-bar rows and machines will help with back strength. As far as corrective training goes - I am going to address L-R strength imbalances by employing unilateral training via BSS, single leg legpress and 1arm db work. Also more heavy weighted core work. More focus on lower back using GMs. Heavy DB rows for upper back as well.

Just for fun assistance exercises - calf raises, misc curls, adductor (bands & machine), neck work.

With new exercises you can progress them while cutting because of newbie gains so i will take advantage of those. Especially if they additionally help fix imbalances or bring up weak muscles and attack sticking points on the main lifts.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on December 31, 2012, 06:15:49 am
Training
FS 4x102.5 (PR), 5x97.5
BS 5x102.5, 6x97.5, 5x95, 6x90
BP 2x70, 1x75, 77.5x3, 72.5x6, 70x5
Single DBBP 6x20R, 5x22.5R, 3x25R
DIPZ 3x8xBW

FS notes:
I wanted 5x102.5 but my upper back rounded on the 4th and I knew if anything the 5th would be even uglier. Decided to rack it after all. Woulda been nice to get the 5x102.5 PR on teh last workout of the year - but you know what 4x102.5 is still a 4 rep PR so whatevers. Next time will get it fo sho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7fj6-9alDU
^was happier with my form on the 2nd set of front squats.

BS notes:
Shithouse backsquats. Only decent set was the last one.


Another day, another gym. The one i went to last time was closed which sucked or so I thought but turns out today's one was even better. Very neat, nice equipment, kickass air/conditioning, not very busy, not many bros. It was one of the best i've been to in this city. I'm so lucky it was open today and being under that icy cold a/c because it was 40° C at home and so ridiculously hot that there was no sense in trying to get thru it here. The squatting setup was almost perfect. The floor was solid (not squishy like the previous gym). The only defect was there was very little clearance between the barbell sleeves and the rack. You have to be super careful not to catch the pins with the bottom of plates.

Workout done under long time fasted conditions because i've got a party later tonight. Workout was much more difficult than it would be otherwise. So that's it, the last workout of the year.

2012 Summary
I did well this year, lost a whole load of body weight, was around 90kg at the start of 2012 and I ended up 75.5kg at my lightest a few days ago.  My best backsquat was 130 without a belt and my best front squat was 117.5kg. I'm due to FS 120kg any day now. Post cutting, I'll do a lot better on lifts in 2013. In the process I went from not being able to dunk, to landing my first dunks and finally in Dec, being able to dunk with ease.

My waist reached a PR milestone of 32.25" this morning - which means i'm not far from being under 32" now. That gives me motivation going into the new year - want bad to stop being a fatfuck and finally be lean and athletic. The main reason I didn't end up 8% bodyfat is because I started out a LOT fatter than I initially thought. I may well have started cutting from upper 20s.

(http://i.imgur.com/7aAJ6.png)
End of year progress pic.

Will finish the job and get down to 8-10% by Mid-Feb.

Thanks for reading. Happy new year everyone. Hope you achieve your goals!. Til next year :) 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on December 31, 2012, 10:52:09 am
abzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 01, 2013, 06:42:08 am
I'd heard the dip is the upper body equivalent of the backsquat. I didn't know then what to make of such a claim having never tried the exercise. But now the day after dips, I find a great deal of residual soreness in my shoulders, triceps, forearms and especially lats. There might just be something to the claim after all. I plan to work up to 12 reps of BW dips before adding weight. May eventually replace the bb bench press since I have so many issues with that exercise.

I spent the afternoon reading through my log. I didn't realise how much being injured earlier in the year affected my training - and even body recomp because I had to put dieting on hold while healing. Being injured sucks, obviously, but i've been lucky for a while now with no injury concerns. Will work to keep it that way. A big part of staying injury free, I must admit, was not playing basketball.

I remember how badly I'd get beaten up from playing basketball - not just injuries which were are obvious, but the beating my joints would take from playing the game. I didn't realise then but it might have been because I was overweight. Even attempting a dunk would hurt my ankle, say, from the impact of landing with a heavy bodyweight. I don't have that problem now - even on concrete, it's kind on on knees and ankles.

So this leads to the question, suppose I finish my cut and lose another 5kg of bodyfat - and then if I were to play basketball, would it be even more easier on my joints? Would it mean much better recovery following games so that I can train normally in the gym afterwards? Perhaps. Worth finding out.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 01, 2013, 06:44:46 am
Losing fat should have a pretty important effect on those aspects, especially if it altered your posture.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 01, 2013, 06:51:13 am
Losing fat should have a pretty important effect on those aspects, especially if it altered your posture.

Speaking of posture. I don't have back problems anymore either. Wonder if that chronic sciatica I had for several years was partially due to being a huge fatfuck. This really bothers me.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 01, 2013, 08:44:57 am
Why the heck it bothers you? :D

It's good you got rid of that. Sure it's kind of annoying not to know why but keep up the good work.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 01, 2013, 09:59:36 pm
Why the heck it bothers you? :D

Just that I didn't know any better initially. Could have been luckier and found better sources for advice. I know everyone gets burned by poor training & nutrition advice but it set me waaaaaay back. I'm not even out of the hole I dug for myself yet, still have 6-8 weeks of cutting to go.

Quote
It's good you got rid of that. Sure it's kind of annoying not to know why but keep up the good work.

Oh for sure, best thing i've done in a long time. Will do.

Looking forward - I think I will take a page out of Mutombo's log and implement a no sugar-no-sweets regime for this year. I know that sounds a bit too extreme, but cutting out fast food which I did the latter half of 2012 really paid off big, and I think the binges of icecream/chocolate I have once every 2-3 months need to go. I don't have the stuff usually. But then I'll start eating icecream and just have it every night til the freezer is emptied.


Oh shit I forgot to mention something that has been on mind. I'm obviously very light for my height right now. And people keep telling me how sickly thin i have become ("you are anorexic bro .. gross i can see your veins"). And there is a real temptation there to go "fuck it man, i'm gonna gain some weight now, enough cutting". But i'm going to resist that trap. Because suppose I do gain some weight, so I get a bit fatter than I am now. Then what? Eventually i'll have to say ok time to cut, and then i'll hate to lose the new fat I gained in the bulk as well as dealing with the old fat I didn't remove in the first place. It's nothing more than spinning ones wheels. So I will stay the course now, get rid of ALL the bodyfat and THEN bulk. No matter how skeletal I become, i'll keep going. Like Lance said, the trip isn't the same as the stay, it's a temporary inconvenience for the cost of doing things the right way for the long term.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 02, 2013, 01:00:47 am
Training
FS 3x103

OHP 5x58, 4x58 (repeat next time), 5x52.5

FS 4Fx103, 4x98.5

FS notes (I):
the triple was a RM. I should know better not to front squat fasted but erred once again. The other thing was - the dips from monday destroyed my middle back so much so that I was struggling to stay upright. This is wild - how does an upper body exercise hit my back so hard? That's sick. I get that dips are a great compound exercise now - I just need to schedule better so it doesn't affect front squats.

OH and this explains why monday's 2nd front squat set looked so good - it's because I did dips on friday so maybe that helped strengthen my back so much so that it helped avoid upper back rounding? Promising signs. Dips might just be that magic exercise I needed the most in training. Now just need to juggle everything else to make them fit in nicely.

Will try FS later tonight once again when not fasted.

FS notes (II):
I think the 2nd session was easier but still I failed the 4th rep. So dunno, it wasn't a huge difference either. My back is toast So much so that i'm skipping weighted chins, backsquats and bss because I don't wanna get injured trying to train thru this.


At some point I want to switch focus away from front squats. Yes I love them but there can be such a thing as too much of a good thing. Would like to get to 5x105 and 1x120 before putting FS on maintenance.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 02, 2013, 08:24:26 am
Tentative Program

Monday:
FS 2x5 (ramped down)
BS 1x6, 1x8
Squat assistance
DB BP 3x6 (weaker arm more sets)

Wednesday:
FS 2x5 (ramped down)
Squat Assistance
OHP 2x5
WCU (~20-25 heavy reps)
Friday:
FS 1RM
BS 1x5
BP 3RM
Squat assistance
DIPZ 3x6
Squat assistance: Alternate btw BSS (3x6) or single leg press -- and -- rows (t-bar, heavy db etc) or good mornings.

I am considering doing away with backsquat and just doing heavy good mornings. I figure GM+FS = Win -  but I might regret it later on that I didn't keep up with backsquat so dunno.

Once I FS 105x5 and 120x1 - I will take stop FS 3x a week and switch to 2x. Maybe even 1x if I can get away with maintaining my 5RM and 1RM. Number of sets will go down for maintenance as well. At that point FS focus will give way to BSS. If you are wondering, why not BS instead? Because I still have mad issues with backsquat assymetry and imbalance. That's why I am choosing instead to focus on the unilateral BSS exercise instead.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 03, 2013, 10:41:09 am
So all that new year resolution nonsense resulted in 1 day of strict compliance. On day 2 I ate a whole load of chocolate. And today I though to do even better and ate a whole large bar. I'm okay with this. I think the strict-all-in-or-nothing attitude isn't a good one. I can mess up today and pick things up tomorrow without missing a step. That's a good thing. If 90% of the time i'm compliant then over time I will get the results all the same. But the really remarkable thing is what made me write this post - that having eaten an entire large block of chocolate, I don't have a sugar rush, or feel any sort of low. It's a sign to me that my insulin sensitivity has improved leaps and bounds since my obese days - that if I were to do a bulk now, chances are i'd have better muscle:fat partitioning. I'm on the right track - sub 10% and my insulin sensitivity will be optimal and I will be able to do a great bulk.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 03, 2013, 01:27:48 pm
yes, it's best not to moralize foods.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 03, 2013, 10:09:39 pm
I'm a little annoyed. The gym I was excitedly planning to join soon is proving to be a disappointment. They delayed their opening by a week. And after speaking to them yesterday it turns out all their website claims were a trick to get you to talk to salesman. Like saying "no contracts" in big letters everywhere on their website but the rates for non-contracts are 2x as much the annual ones!  I don't know if I even want to be in a gym for that long, I may end up training at home after the summer so that's a deal breaker to me. But even their rates for annual membership are too high for me.

I may end up going to that other gym I went to the other day which had a great setup and it's more in line with my budget (on a contract mind) although it's a bit of drive from home which I was hoping to avoid.


I hurt my back on wednesday overhead pressing. Stupid exercise. Will skip today's workout until back is ok. The last time I hurt my back was while doing ohp. That's the 2nd strike against barbell ohp. I don't think I will do them again.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 04, 2013, 04:27:11 am
Here the average fee for a monthly "complete" (come when you want, leave when you want, for an unlimited amount of times) gym membership is about 17 euros, so about 20$. I pay about 35$ for my gym, but it's close to home (5 minutes) so I'd rather pay more and have it close to home than otherwise.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 04, 2013, 04:40:29 am
I have something like 15 gyms to choose from that are within 20 mins and there are more coming up. It's ridiculous. So in a way i'm spoilt for choice! I've got the option of 24/7 gyms but without barbells. One which has barbells and another one which should be close opening in around 3 months time. Several full featured gyms but ones that require a yearly contract. One which doesn't have a 24/7 but is very cheap for off peak.  Another one has a nice indoor basketball court etc but the other ones don't.

The other option I have is to spend the money I would on gym membership and buy extra gear - like dbs. But I hate my homegym now for some reason and like the idea of training in a nice a/c indoor gym esp in the summer. But for $600ish I could buy a bunch of dumbells. Maybe even a new, half decent barbell

I really like that last gym I used, and they're reasonably priced - $600 for the year. Nice equipment and good solid floor. Only that rack is a bit tight but I can probably get used to it
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 04, 2013, 06:20:59 am
Here's the membership for a year is 440$, and with some discounts etc that they practice I guess it ends up to about 400.

The problem is that the average monthly salary is ~300 $. My monthly salary + meal tickets ends up at 456 $ currently.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 04, 2013, 11:30:36 am
Damn! Gyms are way more expensive there. I wouldn't bother in that case. This stuff is a luxury not a necessity obviously. I think i'm leaning towards one or two - just have to go there and physically check them out and make a decision so I don't have to worry about this stuff anymore. If it works out in a few months I will ebay my homegym.

My back went from bad to worse thru the day. I binged on chocolate and icecream. That wont hurt healing. Hopefully it will be ok by monday. Note to self, no more barbell overhead pressing ever. DBs are so much safer. Inexplicably my shoulders have gotten like 10% bigger in the last few days.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 04, 2013, 10:27:23 pm
Back feels gooooooood today. Have to decide whether to workout or rest a coupla more days and start back on monday.

also, oh shit I got fat. I feel fat and flabby. Feels bad man. I think I ate an entire tray of chocolates yesterdays, a bag of doritos, normal meals and 2 large bowls of icecream. What a pig.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 05, 2013, 02:31:33 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x107.5, 1x97.5, 2x95, 5x90
BS 3x60, 3x90, 2x100, 1x107.5, 7x90

pickup game 1.5hrs

Then gym closed so couldn't do upper body stuff. I wasn't aware of the closing time otherwise I woulda planned the session better.

FS notes:
The 107.5 was heavy :/ i've got weak. But I was holding back some since I didn't wanna disturb my back.

BS notes:
I need to do something different, not going anywhere on this lift, if anything i've regressed a lot.

Basketball notes:
Played pickup for the first time in 6 months or so. was wild, i didn't have the fine motor skills honed so was a bit funny. kept fumbling the ball, passed, dribbles etc. but it was slowly coming back. finished off with a game of 4-4 to 21 points, and I reached into my deep reserves to see if I had some extra athleticism available - i did - hit a new gear and blew by mate who is usually very quick and hard to get by, and i scored it to put us on top and win. felt good. but overall unfit, slow, sluggish, uncoordinated, lots of things to fix. I just think i was too heavy today, and i suspect tomorrow my joints will complain because i put them thru too much beating playing this heavy. my lanky ass needs to be 72kg to be maximally athletic. Just need to get my shit together and finish this cut........

and my d sucked. i need to read the advise lance gave me because i got killed today


In other news, the gym search is over! I've found the right one. They just renovated and they have a really nice setup with all the equipment I could possibly need. And a basketball court I can use for jumping, so I have no excuse to skip jumping after lifting.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 06, 2013, 01:23:48 am
Various soreness, asymmetric, in my left leg. Lower back and upper back (i did squeeze in a set of 5 dips before leaving the gym). I ate more junk yesterday and today as well. Decided to start over on the first monday of the year and give myself a bit of diet break before resuming the cut. I've gained a lot of weight this past week - but things should be back to normal soon now that I have a new gym sorted out.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Cosmic J on January 06, 2013, 03:48:47 am
Hey good job on the amazing progress in 2012.  I was browsing your journal and saw you had some problems with ROM, older injuries, assymetry, etc.  Try checking out mobilitywod.com and do some searches for your body part or lift.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 06, 2013, 07:59:09 am
Hey good job on the amazing progress in 2012.  I was browsing your journal and saw you had some problems with ROM, older injuries, assymetry, etc.  Try checking out mobilitywod.com and do some searches for your body part or lift.

Thank you for the kind words. I'll have to give mobility work a go - it's something i've never tried before.

Today was supposed to be a rest day where I ate like a pig for the last time and relaxed but ended up helping out my father with some labour work. Moved a whole load of heavy blocks thru sand and it was a great workout. Haven't sweated as much as this in ages. I am regretting the basketball I played the other day, sore knees and ankles abound. Note to self, i'm not in any kind of shape to play basketball.. yet.. so don't tempt fate, stay injury free!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#1/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 06, 2013, 11:17:27 pm
Body recomp (The final cut)
Starting stats: 77.2kg / 170lb, 32.5" waist, 14-15% bodyfat
Desired stats: 72.5kg / 160lb, 30" waist, 9% bodyfat

TLDR: looking to drop 5kg/10lb of bodyweight to 160lb and 2.5" off my waist to 30" in 45 days.

Crazy lower body doms since yesterdays yard work. I really should do more explosive pushing/pulling work, this stuff is brilliant. Am beat - but will fit in a workout later tonight at the new gym. Will do a whole load of volume but keep intensity low.

Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 4x102.5 (=PR but shit form), 3x95, 5x90
DBBP 6x12.5, 5x17.5, 8x22.5, 6x27.5
WC 5xBW, 3x10kg, 2x15kg, 1x20kg, 0.9x20 (shitty gym design, the plate hit the wall stalling me), 4x10kg
DIPZ 8xBW, 10xBW (PR), 12xBW (PR)
aerobic bike thing (cardio setting - ~1km, 132 heart rate)

FS notes:
I wasn't even planning on squatting today after yesterday's gruelling "workout" - but forced myself because I wanted to start the cut properly. I didn't have a 5th rep in me, the 4th was ugly. But I think if it wasn't for yesterday I would have got the 5 rep PR. Form sucked, didn't have leg strength and my back was fried too making it hard to stay upright.

Upper body notes:
I finally got around to weighted chins - for the first time in over a fortnight. Have gotten real weak on these. Also I can't do them them at the new gym - the 20kg plate touches the wall because the bar is too close - so will have to do these at home. That's not a problem.

Happy with DB BP - will add weight and just do a lot of volume and see where it takes me in a coupla weeks

DIPZ - getting better and better at this exercise, i can easily see doing 3x15 real soon. And it might be time to add weight.

I didn't realise it until now but i've had 3 training days in a row. That's  kind of beaten me up, not just joints and tendons but CNS as well. I might avoid playing basketball again until i'm done cutting - because if I try to do too much i'll get burn out and quite easily succumb to injury. So lets stick to basics - 3x lifting, 3x hiit/cardio - jumps and sprints 1x a week. And that's it. Oh fasted treadmill on rest days. Basketball has no place in training right now. Lets get this done. 6pac or nothing brah.

Workout took too long, gym was real busy and I had to wait 20-30mins for squat rack. Will have to schedule better to avoid this in future.

Nutrition
Thinking I might dial down protein a tad for the first 3 weeks or so. So might take 2.5 scoops of whey a day. I'm already on 700mL of lowfat milk atm - will keep that there. The idea is, I need less protein the fatter I am - and as I get leaner, the more protein i'll need. I'll add more protein in as I go along. But if I start higher now, i'll be eating a lot more later if that makes sense.

Nailed nutrition on day 1 -
meal 1: 2 eggs, 2 slice wholemeal bread, 1 banana, 1.5 scoop whey shake lowfat milk
periworkout: can coke
meal 2: cup hot & spicy chicken breast curry, 2 rotis, 1.5 scoop whey shake in 350mL lowfat milk, half a mango.

and that's it - will be by daily template day in day out. Might take slightly less milk on rest days, so perhaps 600mL but that's not a big deal really.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#2/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 07, 2013, 11:45:40 pm
(http://s13.postimage.org/guhuaj7zb/graph6611362373821880929.png)

BW: 76.5kg / 168.65lb

Seem to be losing weight quickly as expected early in the cut. I had a lot of food in my gut which will go away over the next few days. So i'm hoping by next week I'll be in the 75kgs / 165lbs region which is where I left off last year. Waist is comfortably under 32.5" today as well. The other thing is I ate a lot of salt so water balance should be restoring soon.

No training today, wanna rest up after 3 consecutive days of training.

Change of plan. Couldn't help myself and did 30 mins on the TM fasted @ 3.3km/hr.

Just got to make sure tomorrow unlike today I take my first meal nice and early to be strong for the workout. I feel very tired today - even too tired to drive. I know I need more volume across the board, but damn i'm not letting go of intensity and it's not doing me any favours.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 08, 2013, 09:28:54 am
so let go of intensity, for a while. you've disciplined yourself on diet, you can discipline yourself on training. you can always go back to the high-intensity stuff later.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 08, 2013, 11:22:54 am
so let go of intensity, for a while. you've disciplined yourself on diet, you can discipline yourself on training. you can always go back to the high-intensity stuff later.

The reason I've traditionally gone for intensity is because, as you might know, lmcd recommends keeping intensity up, volume low, frequency low on a cut. I don't buy it myself but I err with lcmd because he's usually right about these things. But I think if I truly have 5kg to lose then I should be able to afford some leeeway in working volume. So i've just got to make the decision to put my ego & concerns about muscle wasting aside and go for it.

The other thing which really bugs me is I want to do give BSS a honest go, but i'm just doing too many damn exercises (FS, BS, BSS, 1 leg leg press) now to give any one exercise the volume focus it needs. So as a result I do only a couple of sets each per exercise. I'll figure it out somehow.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 08, 2013, 01:43:14 pm
true but he also advocates depletion workouts (in UD2.0).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#3/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 09, 2013, 04:39:17 am
some half assed jumps (could barely get over the bottom of the square)
FS 1x90, 1x100, 2x102.5, 3x90, 4x90
BS 3x90, 4x90, 4x85, 6x80
OHP(DB) 5x15, 5x20, 0x25, 5x22.5, 9x20, 6x22.5
TBDL 5x60, 3x90, 3x100
arm work

FS notes:
I haven't had form this bad in forever. I dunno wtf was going on today but i haven't been this weak on fronts for as long as I can remember. I miss certain home comforts if you know what i mean, which you wont.

BS notes:
Finally bs for the first time in forever. Was weak in this too but sucked up and did some volume. I know I need more, but not going to jump into it all at once. Each time add a set or two. Build up the volume, keep form good.

OHP notes:
Good bye shitty barbell lift. Hello superior dumbell alternative. So very interesting to see that I get zero reps with 25kg bells but I can get 9 with 20kg ones. Decent amount of volume. Lets hope db work gives a semblance of balance on L and R sides. Atm i've got that L dominant, so hopefully quitting barbell work and working dbs will fix that and push me further along.

Trap bar notes:
Why has the universe hidden this amazing exercise from me? It may just be the one I was looking for all this time. I felt it in the quads. Additionally it gives extra back work. AND gives me a heavy pull exercise - hitting all the key joys one gets from a compound ex. Watch this space. Maybe i can be so ambitious to think in terms of 4 or 5 plates on this if it gives me the rewards, I will give it the time.

Trap bar makes me happy. I just don't know how the fuck to load it because there is no rack for it? There must be a trick surely.

I'm doing well on the diet, 2 days of compliance, and today being the 3rd one looks safe in the bank. I'm thinking in terms of being in the 75kgs by monday morning.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#3/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: Coges on January 09, 2013, 07:34:04 pm
Trap bar makes me happy. I just don't know how the fuck to load it because there is no rack for it? There must be a trick surely.

Not sure if you can in a public gym but once you have a plate on each side or the trap bar sit them on a 5 or 10kg plate. This means you get that little bit of room to slide other plates on afterwards. Hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#4/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 09, 2013, 10:40:37 pm
Cool thanks, i'll try that out next time!

Just noticed a kind of tiny rash on my middle finger on the right hand. Ugh, another reason why I dislike gyms - being exposed to ppls nastiness. How do you even prevent something like that? I bet they never clean the dumbell handles. Note to self use the alcohol gel in my gym bag immediately after.

Waiting to drop into 75s, was 76.55kg this morning. So far so good. Want to get the first week under my belt and tackle the 2nd one.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 01:09:29 am
Thinking of buying my own trap bar and 2x45kg dbs instead of gym membership.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#5/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 06:10:58 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 5x102.5 (PR), 4x97.5 (*)
BS 3x90, 2x100, 1x105, 6x95, 6x90
DBBP 5x12.5, 5x22.5, 4x30 (PR), 6x27.5, 8x25
TBDL 3x100, 1x120, 3x140 (PR), 5x100, 5x100
DIPZ 15 (PR), 15, 12
SVJx5, RVJx2

FS notes:
Well finally progressed my front squat fiver. Feels good man. Will repeat until form is good before adding weight (Yes i say this all the time and never do it but this time I simply must!)

The 2nd set (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5xdKRCjzSE) (*) was ruined by a dude in the mirror who kept moving around just behind me while speaking loudly to his friend. I dont know if that's his fault or me not being used to it - but it threw me off my game and I just couldn't focus, kept thinking I wanna turn around and let him have a piece of my mind but that came to pass quickly!

BS notes:
Slowly rebuilding back the worksets.

DBBP notes:
So I am hopelessly weak - i can't even clean the 30kg dbs - took a huge effort to get in position, but once I was in, managed 4 very slow ugly reps. I guess I should build up more reps with 27.5kg before going up to 30? Will try that.

Trap bar DL notes:
I'm basically mechanically retarded when it comes to deadlifts. I dont have a clue how to set the bar down? In my head i'm thinking first break slightly at knees, do RDL to bring bar lower. Then bend knees more to put the bar on the ground. Is this correct or should be doing somefink else? i have a video if it will help but i doubt it.

Looking at the video - i'm not satisfied with form. My upper back rounds just before breaking the bar off the ground. This is the reason I don't do conv dls so if it's the same with trap bar maybe it's not quite the panacea i was hoping for ..

My right pec cramped on the 3rd rep so I didn't try for 5 reps. But yea i used 3 plates today on my 2nd time doing these. I want to clean up my form and perfect my set-down before going towards and beyond 180kg.

DIPZ:
Got the 15 reps! Now will try get 3 sets of 15 before adding weight. Exciting stuff. This is the only exercise i can really think of that I feel in my chest.

Jumps:
So i'm 110% sure the rim at this new gym is way higher than regulation. not just a coupla inches but perhaps as much as 3"-5". I can't prove it but here are some reasons -

1. Usually I can grab the net while directly underneath the rim - not at this place, have to get on my heels.
2. It just seems so fucking high lol, even the bottom of the backboard seems a lot higher than i've seen elsewhere
3. I haven't got one single dunk on this rim - not from a lack of trying either

This annoys me. On the other hand, suppose I work up to dunking easily on THIS rim - then a regulation rim ought to be much easier? So in a way it's good? But no, it's frustrating not even being able to land one dunk.. not even at max effort.... grrr...... sucks being unable to dunk again.. thought I had shaken that off for good but no..

I have video of this also, will upload tonight.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- attempting to measure vertical
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 07:31:55 am
What's my VJ?

Background info:
Camera frame rate is: 30.000 fps
g=9.794 m/s^2

Quantifying SVJ

Concentric frames: [frame#42, frame#53]
So SVJ consists of 53-42=11 frames
which means t_ecc=11/30=0.366
vert=1/2gt^2=1/2*g*t_ecc^2= 0.658m = 25.90".

I eval'd the following code in an emacs scratch buffer
Code: [Select]
(defun vj (num-frames)
  (let* ((t_ecc (/ num-frames 30.0))
(s (* 0.5 9.79403 t_ecc t_ecc)))
    (/ s 0.0254)))

>(vj 11)
25.92


Quantifying RVJ

Concentric frames: [frame#31, frame#42]
So RVJ consists of 42-31=11 frames

Which is 25.92" as before. This is very interesting... well i didn't realise my vertical was so mediocre.. i thought i was closer to 30" and actually on the other side of 30 lol.. damn reality check!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on January 11, 2013, 08:17:33 am
How do you go from airtime to SVJ? Trying to recall kinematic eqs while making dinner brb

http://www.adarq.org/adarq-org-special-content/complete-hangtime-to-vj/

If still curious about the theory behind it , it is based on the 'Conservation of energy'

energy at bottom = energy at top => kinetic + mecanical energy at bottom = kinetic + mechanical energy at top.

kinetic energy = 0.5 * mass * velocity ^2
mechanical energy = mass * g * height

But mechanical energy at bottom and kinetic energy at top are zero.

So the equation is 0.5 * mass * velocity^2  = mass * g * height  => 0.5  * velocity^2  = g * height [1]

The type of motion is 'constant linear acceleration. so height = velocity*time - 0.5*g*time^2 [2]

Time is the time you took to reach the top, hangtime/2.

There you go, 2 equations with 2 unknown variables ( height, velocity ), solve to height and you are there.

 :-*
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on January 11, 2013, 08:45:42 am
Nice front squat.
Do you usually dunk on outdoor/concrete courts? Aside from the ring being higher there could be another reason why it's harder to dunk. I think your body gets used to jumping on concrete so than when you jump on hardwood it's harder coz your body isn't used to it. That's what I found even though most people say they can jump higher on hardwood (maybe that's another reason why my knees get fuked up- always jumping on concrete).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 08:51:58 am
Nice one vag, let me plug in the numbers and see what comes out. I am starting to think it's better to work with time t=t* where t* is the time taken taken to reach the peak rather than total airtime. This is because I can get the exact frame where the peak occurs - which saves having to work out which frame is where one lands which is more subject to error.

The other thing i'm not positive about is - do you take the first frame F_0 when you are airborn? Or when the heel visibly begins to rise? Not sure. Ok i've decided to take the last frame just before I'm visibly airborne. This should be t=0 I think because by the next frame i'm already in the air.

Nice front squat.
Thank you!

Quote
Do you usually dunk on outdoor/concrete courts?
Usually I don't dunk anywhere lol. But the last time I dunked was just before xmas on concrete. Before that time, I dunked on hard-wood but that's going back 6 months or so.

Quote
Aside from the ring being higher there could be another reason why it's harder to dunk.
You may well be right. Maybe I jump higher on concrete. The only way to test this is to try on another hardwood floor (the place I usually play basketball when I play) that will confirm whether it's a localised effect of my new gym. But here is the thing. When I weighed like 7-8kg more than I do right now, I could dunk on my old hardwood gym. But now that i'm lighter, stronger and more athletic, I can't dunk at all at this new gym. So that points to the new gym being the anomaly...? Unless my old gym is lower but I doubt that since it's a proper court.

Quote
I think your body gets used to jumping on concrete so than when you jump on hardwood it's harder coz your body isn't used to it. That's what I found even though most people say they can jump higher on hardwood (maybe that's another reason why my knees get fuked up- always jumping on concrete).
Maybe you're right. I will try to get to the bottom of this by trying a few more gyms. Thanks for the thoughts. It may well be the surface. Btw your experience mirrors mine - I could never jump properly on concrete because it would mess up my ankle & knees. But now I think it's because I was too heavy then (=84-85kg) and that's why it was bad for me. At 75-76kg my body doesn't mind concrete at all.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on January 11, 2013, 09:01:52 am
Nice one vag, let me plug in the numbers and see what comes out. I am starting to think it's better to work with time t=t* where t* is the time taken taken to reach the peak rather than total airtime. This is because I can get the exact frame where the peak occurs - which saves having to work out which frame is where one lands which is more subject to error.

The other thing i'm not positive about is - do you take the first frame F_0 when you are airborn? Or when the heel visibly begins to rise? Not sure.

First frame airborn, thats when the 'constant linear acceleration' begins, which is actually decelerating with constand acceleration factor -g. When heels start to rise, you are still building up your initial velocity, you are in the previous, undetermined, motion. 2 more general reccomendations:
-For dunks don't use the full hangtime formula, hangtime is distorted ( inflated ) from rim contact. Use that only for 'clean' jumps.
-The hangtime formula calculates the distance you traveled from toes off, what we call verticall is from heels down, you need to do that correction. You need to add that difference, for me its 5''
More info here : http://www.adarq.org/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/about-the-hangtime-based-vertical-jump-calculators/msg2158/#msg2158 , more analysis at the youtube video description.

:lololol:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 09:06:29 am
A lot of things go into it to make a good estimate. Lots of food for thought. Btw is it possible to do without the initial velocity? Cause how would you measure that anyway... unless you take it to be =0 but that doesn't make sense either unless you start counting from stand still (which means including time spent on the ground before airborne).

I think I got it. We should do the video analysis from the peak of the jump, to landing time. This will allow you to take initial velocity as 0 obviously. We're talking about freefall. The other thing is, it's symmetric because at the top of jump, heel is elevated, toes down - just the same way you land which you can pick up easily from video. I think this makes the most sense?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on January 11, 2013, 09:23:11 am
The initial velocity is being thrown out of the equation because it can be expressed as a function of height and time. It was the equation [2] a few posts above. That's why you have to time from first frame airborn, to make sure that this equation is valid , while on the ground, what is happening cant be determined.
Also , the jump is never actually vertical , that induces a factor equal to the cosinus of the jumping angle ( e.g 10 degrees angle , cos = 0.984 , 1.6% error ).
I don't use the hangtime formula. It just gives you a good estimate.  I only used it when i could not determine my jumps otherwise ( tracking depth jumps performance at home ).
What i use is how higher i got above a measured rim. That can never lie.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 09:25:23 am
Understood. Thank you vag. I don't use the height above rim because i strongly suspect rim height isn't 10ft. But I should probably measure that sometime just to see what it is exactly. Would be good to get an exact measurement of vertical also but I don't currently have a way to measure it very accurately.

So I ran the numbers and my vert is coming out as a very modest ~26" (#frames=11) for both SVJ and RVJ. I found this humbling but lets take a look at how the data varies with a table:
Code: [Select]
#Frames  vertical (inches)
10   21.421762904636918
11   25.920333114610667
12   30.847338582677168
13   36.2027793088364
14   41.98665529308837

So a single frame makes a big difference in the estimate of vertical and there is easily an uncertainty of ±1 frame on the peak frame and the also ±1 frame on the landing one. Which is to say, i may still have a 30" but it's hard to say from this analysis. Suppose if I got my hands on a camera which can take a higher fps than 30 then i'll be able to get a better measurement.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on January 11, 2013, 01:34:36 pm
Well it looks like you are getting exactly a clean hand above rim at that SVJ.  For your height i would guess a 9'' hand. With your 98'' reach that equals to 31'' of vert if we assume the rim is legit 10'. Calculator gives 26'' so there you go , 5'' correction according to my theory, verified. Measure your flatfooted vs up-on-toes-reach and i bet you will find it at 5''.
Sorry for hijacking your journal, if you find this annoying let me know so i delete the posts and take it to the hangtime thread.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#6/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 11, 2013, 11:16:22 pm
98" reach (but that's barefoot, not that I wear shoes with a heel though), 8" hand and yup hit my wrist on the SVJ - so you think 30" iff it's a 10ft rim? That's interesting. Only thing left to do is measure rim height. Don't mind the posts, it's good stuff but if you like to cross post to the hangtime thread as well, feel free so others may find the info easier.

Another SVJ video from earlier in the week, I think I jumped higher there.

I slowed it down and dragged it out to 5s by using a frame rate of 5fps since it was only 1s long to start with to aid ease of watching. I trust you guys to know well intuitively what a vertical is by looking at the video. Does that look like 26" or am I in the 30s? Any estimates welcome.

We haven't established rim height yet but my suspicion is it's a lot higher than 10ft. Thanks again.

I woke up today with wicked lower body doms. Hamstrings, inner thighs, lower back - all torched. Feels good man.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: vag on January 12, 2013, 05:58:34 am
The dunk attempt SVJ is lower but it doesn't count as the ball in the hands ruins the hands windup and the highest reach at peak. Unless we are talking about kingfish but he is not human anyway.
Let's stick to the 1st SVJ video. Around 30'' is my estimation, and i am arrogant enough to say i am the certified eye-vertec of adarq.org!  :P
Your reach is probably ~99'' in shoes, so wrist at 10' rim is 29''. Now this rim could be a bit lower OR a bit higher , it looks legit compared to your height. Also you won't find gym rims more than 2'' different than 10', you can tell from the first look if they are higher than 10'2'' or lower than 9'10''. So my estimation is 29'', no way lower than 27'', no way higher than 31''.
:highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#7/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 13, 2013, 12:30:08 am
The dunk attempt SVJ is lower but it doesn't count as the ball in the hands ruins the hands windup and the highest reach at peak. Unless we are talking about kingfish but he is not human anyway.
Let's stick to the 1st SVJ video. Around 30'' is my estimation, and i am arrogant enough to say i am the certified eye-vertec of adarq.org! :P
Your reach is probably ~99'' in shoes, so wrist at 10' rim is 29''. Now this rim could be a bit lower OR a bit higher , it looks legit compared to your height. Also you won't find gym rims more than 2'' different than 10', you can tell from the first look if they are higher than 10'2'' or lower than 9'10''. So my estimation is 29'', no way lower than 27'', no way higher than 31''.
:highfive:


Made me laugh out loud..   :highfive:

I'll take 30" thank you very much. I'm hoping when I wrap up this cut and stop being on a caloric deficit (=catabolik state) i'll get a few inches on top of this, and I can then work hard on strength & jumping to get to 36". Yes that might be ambitious but a girl can dream. Actually I'd rather break 4s on my short sprint goal than jump 36" in terms of pure athleticism but they're probably connected - and when i'm athletic enough to do one, i'll probably be close to the otehr and vice versa.

So into the last day of the first week of the cut. So far so good, only felt hungry ONE time which happened yesterday, and I ate some fruit,  and it went away. Funny how that works, it's like the body said, oh you gave me some fibre and something for the sweet tooth? Good i'm full now, step away from the icecream and cookies, situation normal.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#8/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 14, 2013, 07:32:40 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 4x105 (PR), 4x97.5, 5x90
BS 3x90, 6x97.5, 6x92.5
DBBP 3x22.5, 8x27.5 (PR), 8x25, 10x20
DIPZ 3x15 (PR- b00m!)
JUMPZ 10 SVJ, 5 RVJ (PR - first double hand SVJ dunks)

BW: ?? (I'd say ~76kg or so but I've not been weighing myself)

FS notes:
So here is the thing, at the gym I can only go up in 2.5kg jumps since I don't have my 1/2kg plates from home. So I had to jump to 105 from my 102.5kg PR from last week. I got 4 reps!! I could have ground out an ugly 5th but it's only monday! So i kept a rep in the tanky and will go for it on weds or friday, whichever feels rite. I was surprised because I thought i would be really weak.

Now if you're taking notes you'd realise I have to work super hard to get a 1/2kg pr on front squats. And today I just got a 2.5kg improvement since last week, wtf? I think it's the trap bar dl i did last week. They've beefed up my lower back some, which has helped with my front squat. This tells me what I already suspected, my back is a weak point, i should be trap bar deadlifting over 4 plates with my long ass arms (esp since i've done 170kgx5 with conventional dl a few years bak when i used to dl).
BS notes:
Just putting in the werk. I wanted to go for another set but I thought fuck it i'm gonna save my legs for jumping.

Jump notes:
Got my first double hand SVJ dunks today. Feels good man. I guess i was just too heavy/fatigued last week? I could dunk today even after doing 25 odd squats before hand. Once my fat ass is down to 72kg i'll be jumping much higher... just gotta be faithful to my diet now.

I have video but it was soo  dark i doubt it will work once youtube runs its recompression algorithms over my footage. we'll see if it looks ok i'll update the post.

^ i ran a brightness filter thru the original footage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGr0wQKsfvs) which was too dark. if you watch either video, be sure to put it on 480p setting first because otherwise it pixellates too much.


I wanted to do weighted chins but the db bp & dipz killed my triceps and i can't do chinups. so note to self, make sure to do them on wednesday.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 14, 2013, 11:34:29 am
You should've added a noise reduction filter too :P
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Coges on January 14, 2013, 05:34:26 pm
Congrats on the SVJ dunks. You make it look so easy.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#9/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 14, 2013, 11:50:23 pm
You should've added a noise reduction filter too :P

lol, did you take a look at the original?! it's a world of a difference, any better and i'd have to sneak into the CSI media lab ;) But yea i'll have a look to see if there is a NR filter around would be cool if it worked.

Congrats on the SVJ dunks. You make it look so easy.

thanks mate. it's always been a dream of mine, hopefully ive got a lot more potential left in me yet.

BW:76.3kg .. right on track

(http://i.imgur.com/UDwd1.png)

I am due for a scale whoosh I think, since i've been on the wagon for 8 days and weight as more or less held steady. I suppose I could do more conditioning too.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on January 15, 2013, 04:08:18 am
105x4 front squat...i'd be lucky to get 105 for a single these days :(
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 15, 2013, 11:58:37 am
god i could fucking kill you. dunking with two hands from a standstill and it doesn't even look like you're trying.

/pity party.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#10/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 16, 2013, 09:01:12 am
^ lol thanks guys much love <3

Training
FS 4.5x105, 3x95
BS 5x100, 5x95
DBOHP 5x22.5, 0x25, 8x20, 6x22.5 (PR? dunno)
TBDL 3x100, 1x120, 1x150 (PR but i'm a dickhead)
SVJx5, RVJx5

BW: ??

FS notes:
Didn't sleep well, was weak today. Didn't get the 5 rep 105kg pr. My mind wasn't there today. I'll get it next time fo sho.

BS notes:
I did the 2 sets I was scheduled to do, wanted 6, but didn't have it in me.

OHP notes:
couldnt get the 25kgs up ha ha, but yea ohp is weird like that. i can bust out 6 reps with 22.5kg and can't get a single one with 25. double u tea eff.

TBDL:
I had no plan today, let my ego lead me to trying a double bw dl, got it but form sucked. What was the point of that anyway? Oh and I did some high pulls (100x5 i think) because I read shaf talk about them on irongarm. As if that's a good reason to do something in the gym but there you have it.

Jump notes:
Yea the rims on the main court are definitely high. I finally landed a dunk on one, but it was a max effort, rvj kind of thing. Maybe i was just fatigued though but it tooke verything to land.


I watched 2 full court basketball games after gym. I am getting the itch to play ball again.. but knowing me i'll get obsessed and then I will be trying to do a million things all at once and not being able to do any single one well. Basketball wires up my CNS like crazy, i get so excited just watching, it's 10x worse when i'm actually playing. But i should just keep my head down, do my front squats, do my cardio, acquire low bodyfat. Then when im done cutting, i'll play ball. Right? I can't be athletic if i'm weak and fat - so don't be a dickhead, just stick to the plan.

also i got into double digits.. will celebrate when i'm halfway there - only another 12.5 days to go.. what.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#11/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 17, 2013, 02:12:44 am
Doing the costings for new gym equipment:

Tarp Bar - $242
Olympic db handles - $100
4x10kg iron plates for dbs - $120
Total: $462

Also considering getting a new barbell:
Olympic barbell - $247
Total: $709

I would like to have a dipping setup as well but I can use the one in the park when I go to do jumps and sprints so it's not strictly necessary.

Not sold completely on tarp bar yet. Maybe it's good, maybe it's not. It's too early to tell. Maybe I could get the same benefits by doing partial straight bar deadlifts? I should find out. Also adjustable dbs might be too unwieldly to actually use if the 10kg plates obscure normal rom? I will try it out at the gym next time because they have the oly handles there.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on January 17, 2013, 02:20:59 am
How come playing full court bball is detrimental to your training?  I didn't get the CNS part.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 17, 2013, 04:08:28 am
How come playing full court bball is detrimental to your training?  I didn't get the CNS part.

In my personal opinion and experience, not just full court but any even 3v3 pickup played for a long enough duration (1-3hrs). I suspect it's to do with being in poor physical shape (bodyfat > 12%, conditioning & fitness low to average). The constant stop start nature of basketball where you are either in acceleration or deceleration often, jumping, landing, changing direction combine to put a lot of stress on joints and the excitation of the CNS in particular due to the frequently occurring high intensity movements during play.  In addition to the regular stresses just described in competitive games you have also the extra adrenalin intensification of the nervous system from being in a charged competitive environment. Movements have to be max effort otherwise you'll be uncompetitive against the opponents.

If I were to play basketball now while being in a cut, while weight training and trying to progress my lifts i'd quickly find myself overtraining due to the factors described in the previous paragraph. During a high intensity RM set you might psyche yourself up and go all into a set that takes say 30 seconds to complete. In basketball that might be 30 minutes or more - which takes a greater toll on the CNS, somethign you don't want to do during a cut.

But suppose you're not dieting, you can improve recovery by eating more food (= sizeable caloric surplus) and this might allow you to play basketball and train hard in teh gym as well without running into overtraining problems. I can see that working in that specific case. But in a deficit while working hard to push up my lifts? Nope. It's just asking for injury and overtraining.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 18, 2013, 03:03:41 am
Thinking back to a discussion where T0ddday described sprinters like Mutumbo000 having a great deal of natural lower back strength. Got me thinking that since I would like to be more athletic, it would follow reason that I should work on my back strength. I mean the causality T0dday describes goes the other way:
sprinters -> back strength

but I dont think it would hurt to try going in the reverse direction, ie,
greater back strength -> becoming more sprinter like.

Need to devote a fair bit of effort to building back strength. But programming it will be tricky since deadlifts and the like are hard to recover from. I'll figure it out by trial and error.


just a note, i came off my diet yesterday. it was a combination of things which i wont go into but suffice to say i recovered gracefully today so at least in that sense my ability to diet has improved markedly. no more several days of binging once i come of the rails, just picked up where i left of the next day, easy.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#12/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 18, 2013, 07:55:45 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110
BS 5x90, 5x95
DBBP 3x22.5, 3x27.5, 6x30 (PR), 8x27.5, 10x25
TBDL 3x100, 1x130, 3x145 (PR)
DIPZ 10xBW+7kg, 8xBW+12.5, 6xBW+15KG (all PRs - first time doing weighted dips, used dbs)
CU ~20-25 reps, from +12.5kg thru to BW - have got real weak on these on account of not doing them forever
RVJ x5

FS notes:
Well in hindsight doing that ego driven double bw trapbar dl last workout was a mistake. My lower back was fried, i couldn't front squat for shit, even my warmups were hard and shitty. So try to be smarter about these back exercises because the first priority is front squat, everything else is secondary. Fuck me.

BS notes:
A hot girl was waiting for me to finish squatting and I wasn't exactly going to set PRs today so I just did warmup weights and then told her I was done. I hate gyms, kind of like in that shakespeare poem

TBDL notes:
Yup back is getting strong very quickly. I pulled that 145kg triple with good form. Even decent form. If I keep up the tbdl work i can easily see me pulling in excess of 4 plates in a matter of weeks, it's just that good an exercise and i'm just that much of a newbie when it comes to back strength.. but .. the cost is having shitty front squat sessions which is untenable.. so i need to figure how to resolve this problem soon

My 2 week gym trial comes to an end tomorrow. I have to decide whether to put down the money for gym membership or buy new gym gear (tarp bar, db handles, plates for db handles.. ). Will decide this weekend. Weather still sucks so I'd like to train in a gym til at least end of feb .. because i dont fancy sweating away at home.. but we'll see maybe i should just suck it up.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on January 18, 2013, 12:18:20 pm
How come playing full court bball is detrimental to your training?  I didn't get the CNS part.

In my personal opinion and experience, not just full court but any even 3v3 pickup played for a long enough duration (1-3hrs). I suspect it's to do with being in poor physical shape (bodyfat > 12%, conditioning & fitness low to average). The constant stop start nature of basketball where you are either in acceleration or deceleration often, jumping, landing, changing direction combine to put a lot of stress on joints and the excitation of the CNS in particular due to the frequently occurring high intensity movements during play.  In addition to the regular stresses just described in competitive games you have also the extra adrenalin intensification of the nervous system from being in a charged competitive environment. Movements have to be max effort otherwise you'll be uncompetitive against the opponents.

If I were to play basketball now while being in a cut, while weight training and trying to progress my lifts i'd quickly find myself overtraining due to the factors described in the previous paragraph. During a high intensity RM set you might psyche yourself up and go all into a set that takes say 30 seconds to complete. In basketball that might be 30 minutes or more - which takes a greater toll on the CNS, somethign you don't want to do during a cut.

But suppose you're not dieting, you can improve recovery by eating more food (= sizeable caloric surplus) and this might allow you to play basketball and train hard in teh gym as well without running into overtraining problems. I can see that working in that specific case. But in a deficit while working hard to push up my lifts? Nope. It's just asking for injury and overtraining.

interesting analysis.  i remember back in 2009/10, for a period of 3-4 months, i decided to "chase athleticism" again.  i had just gotten through a major hurdle in life and was feeling good.  I was overweight and weak but was motivated to the core.  I started playing bball 3-4x a week full court and was lifting 5-6 times a week... talk about over training, but i guess it is easy to do that when you're beginning.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#13/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 19, 2013, 01:53:32 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/aGBpMoj.png)

BW: 76kg / 167.55lb

Good news is that I weighed an even 76kg in the morning. Bad news is that I caught up with my friends for dinner and had a few too many slices of oh so good but oh so greasy pizza. Afterwards I had a large chocolate fudge icecream sundae thing which was glorious. All very much worth it.

I've now got a reason for training though, have convinced my mates to put the band back together and to sign up for a basketball tournament at the end of march. I'm gonna make sure i'm the best shape of my life and get my athleticism and skills to the best level they've ever been. I have the time and opportunity to get my ducks in a row and i'm gonna work really hard. I've always wanted to play with my friends and this might be the only chance to do it before we're all too old.

Goals for the tournament are 10% bodyfat (obviously), 5x115kg front squat, sub 4s 30m sprint, 36" vertical. As import is to improve my ball handling skills to a very high level because I want to realise my aspirations of being a sick point guard. Elite level conditioning too. Also will focus on taking apart my jumpshot and rebuilding it properly so it looks pretty and falls softly and accurately.

Lifting wise once i've got 5x105 on my front squat, i'm going to put the lift on a gentle simmer (=0.5kg jumps) and let it gently bubble it's way to 5x110kg - in the meantime i'll work my back hard and build up my lower back strength to a high level. I'll also work my abs hard. Once both of these weak areas are addressed i'll turn my focus on front squats and push them up aggressively (5x115kg as a minimum - 5x120kg as a great effort and anything above that is just bonus).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#14/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 21, 2013, 01:01:36 am
Well kind of came off the rails on my diet this past weekend. For the record I had

2xslice french toast
banana
1 bag of kitkats
1 big bag of doritos
about 1/2 kilo of mexican bread pudding
protein shake

But not going to cry over spilt milk. I think if I stick to my usual everyday diet i don't have any problems but the dominos starting falling when I had the french toast instead of my usual "healthy" breakfast and i lose control then and there and it just gathered momentum on its own
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#15/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 21, 2013, 10:19:11 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 5x1x105, 5x95, 5x92.5
BS 3x90, 5x95, 5x92.5, 5x90
BP 5x70, 5x75, 5x67.5, 5x65
TM, 20 mins @ 6.5kph, incline 0

FS notes:
my form sucked, experimented with varying stance width, didn't amount to much. i like to stick to my usual athletic stance which is what I use for jumping as well, even though with my long legs it's not ideal for squatting since it ends up being such a deep bottom position.

BS notes:
BS was good.

BP notes:
Uneven bar path, left side higher, right side lags behind. Thought the db work i've done for the last 4wks would fix it but it didnt.

Restarted cardio today. Will alternate btw HIIT and slow steady btw successive sessions.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#16/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 22, 2013, 01:10:07 am
It's amazing how great my recovery is when i've eaten more food and slept well. Actually I think the reason I slept so well is because I ate well (=plentiful carbs from icecream -> amazing sleep). They're connected together. Yesterday I was annoyed about falling off the diet on the weekend so I went about business as usual while on my diet. Trained hard. Then decided to eat two bowls of icecream for dessert because I wanted to finish it so it wouldn't mindfuck me. I wake up feeling refreshed, no doms, no aches and pains. Feels good man.

I think in a way even though my bodyweight hasn't changed, my bodycomp has improved. Hard to prove though. And probably wrong so i'm not taking that idea too seriously.

But i'm really glad I've restarted cardio. I bet I could even eat a surplus and still lose bodyfat if I work hard on conditioning because of newbie conditioning gains. I have only scratched the surface, yesterday being my first aerobic session since september or something!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 22, 2013, 09:56:41 am
fwiw charlie francis was a big proponent of lower back strength as key to fast sprinting. i think it's in "speed trap" where he describes ben johnson's erector spinae as "the size of a man's forearm."
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- bodycomp progress update
Post by: entropy on January 23, 2013, 01:39:16 am
fwiw charlie francis was a big proponent of lower back strength as key to fast sprinting. i think it's in "speed trap" where he describes ben johnson's erector spinae as "the size of a man's forearm."

Thanks for sharing that - gives me further confidence I am on the right track. It may just be the thing which makes me buy a trap bar for my home gym. I'll try using a straight bar on friday for deadlifts but if my form isn't on then i'll stick to training exclusively with the trap bar which so far has allowed me to work my back hard while keeping my form decent.

I'm excited, I can't wait to become a good sprinter :)

I was baffled how being strict on my diet for what it was (13 days straight?) the scale went nowhere. Which threw my motivation out of the window. But the scale (and tape measure) just conspired to defeat me because today i've looked at before and after pics and there is definitely a big change. I had some big changes in body weight today so that's why i'm updating now.

removed pics, try not to be a faggot entropy.. lol.

So i'm just going to ignore the scale and the tape measure now and stick to the plan. As long as I am compliant the results will come, even if they take time to show it. The body can confound your best efforts by concealing true fat loss thru water retention etc so it's not the most reliable judge of progress. It really sucks though when you put in 2 weeks of hard work and have nothing to show for it, but it's there, one just has to be patient.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#17/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 23, 2013, 08:52:40 am
Training
FS 2x90, 1x100, 3x105, 3x100, 3x97.5, 5x95
BS 3x90, 5x100, 5x92.5
OHP 5x50, 5x52.5, 5x51

WCU 5xBW, 3x89, 2x94, 1x99 (+20kg), 3x94, 5x89, 5x84, 7xBW (=79kg)

FS notes:
Couldn't rep out out 5s for some reason. I blame myself for not optimising recovery because last week i had 4.5 reps and should have had an easy 5 rep PR already but i've been careless with recovery. Work in progress I guess.

Still trying to find my way back to good form. I think it's something peculiar to my home setup because my form at the gym is a lot better. On the last set I tried using the old cue I used way back when I started doing front squats to break first at the knees. I don't use that cue these days because it looks funny on video but aesthetic reasons aside, it seems to help me be tighter at the bottom of the movement so it may be worth exploring next time once more.

BS notes:
BS once again was good. Maybe it will catch up with FS worksets next week if everything goes to plan.

OHP notes:
Back to barbell variation after a month of dbs. Felt ok. Just stay safe and don't tweak my back because that's the only danger to this lift.

WCU notes: 
Slowly working my way back to my old prs. I've lost about 7kg off my max so have a bit of room for improvement yet.

I'm skipping conditioning today - hear me out - my knees hurt. I'll do my 2nd session of the week on friday. Next week i'll do 3 sessions. This is my first week so it's sane not to go all out all at once - 2 sessions to start with working up to 3 makes a lot more sense. Knees will be happy this way.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#18/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 24, 2013, 02:44:17 am
Unexpected doms in forearms. Faint doms in lats. Inner thighs, glutes and hams.

2 days diet compliant now, onto the 3rd. Will string up perfect compliance for the remainder of January to get sub 75kg for sure.

Btw the tournament I was preparing for has been cancelled because 3 friends have bailed on the team which sucks because I was really looking forward to it. Especially returning to my beloved melbourne with my friends would have been a great deal of fun. Now I have to find another way to motivate myself to train hard. I might start playing with my old team again but I don't really want to do that either. May just give up on the idea of playing basketball even though i'm in the best shape of my life and it seems a waste of training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCF225x1vLU
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 24, 2013, 03:14:36 pm
find another sport? ultimate frisbee can always use tall dudes who can jump.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#18/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: Coges on January 24, 2013, 05:57:10 pm
Btw the tournament I was preparing for has been cancelled because 3 friends have bailed on the team which sucks because I was really looking forward to it. Especially returning to my beloved melbourne with my friends would have been a great deal of fun. Now I have to find another way to motivate myself to train hard. I might start playing with my old team again but I don't really want to do that either. May just give up on the idea of playing basketball even though i'm in the best shape of my life and it seems a waste of training.

Seriously? C'mon get on it!

You're in great shape, dunking, lifting. Now is the perfect time to get back in the game.

I was in a training rut before I got back into ball. Hadn't played for a couple of years and it's been a breath of fresh air trianing wise. Always something to work on even though (for me) playing is purely social. We're competitive beasts. What's the point of training if you're not at least competing in something?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 25, 2013, 06:58:26 am
find another sport? ultimate frisbee can always use tall dudes who can jump.

I really doubt anyone plays that here but i'll try to have a look. You've given me an idea though, i should try to a different sport. Always loved cricket but never thought I had get the stuff to play well, maybe i'm athletic now to be a decent bowler. will have to give that a try sometime.

Btw the tournament I was preparing for has been cancelled because 3 friends have bailed on the team which sucks because I was really looking forward to it. Especially returning to my beloved melbourne with my friends would have been a great deal of fun. Now I have to find another way to motivate myself to train hard. I might start playing with my old team again but I don't really want to do that either. May just give up on the idea of playing basketball even though i'm in the best shape of my life and it seems a waste of training.

Seriously? C'mon get on it!

You're in great shape, dunking, lifting. Now is the perfect time to get back in the game.

I was in a training rut before I got back into ball. Hadn't played for a couple of years and it's been a breath of fresh air trianing wise. Always something to work on even though (for me) playing is purely social. We're competitive beasts. What's the point of training if you're not at least competing in something?

I keep getting the urge to play ball.. it's growing every day.. and it's proving to be irresistible. currently trying to get some replacement players but while most ppl are keen enough not to say a straight up no, tehy're not that keen to say yes either. Will keep trying. hopefully it happens, would love to get down to 10% bodyfat, work hard on my shooting and passing and get on the court in the best bball shape of my life at 29.. nothing motivates me more than the prospect of playing competitively while being decently athletic.

thanks guys :)
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#19/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 25, 2013, 11:00:16 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 3x105, 2Fx107.5, 4Fx100
BS 3x90, 1x100, 4x102.5
BP 5x60, 5x70, 1x80, 5x67.5
Partial DL 3x100, 1x130, 0x150, 0x140, 0x130, 5x100
RVJx2, SVJx3
DIPZ BWx5, 8x89(+10kg, PR), 5x89, 8x89 (=PR)
HIIT sprints 10,13

FS notes:
Good news is i know how to fs with good technique now. Bad news is that for the last few months i've been cheating myself out of quad dominant front squatting. Good news is that I know better now and can fix that asap but might have to take a temporary hit on weight. Isn't that always the trade off? It sucks not even being able to do a double with 107.5kg! But I think this week has been bad for recovery and I might have got it on a better day, still 107.5x2 is nothing special even if I had got it.

For next week, don't worry about attempting 5x105, just go for the 1kg pr and attempt 103.5 or 104.5 kg, which ever is the PR weight. I think 103.5 is a 5 rep pr but i'll have to double check that. And then from here on, just add that 1kg (2x0.5kg), don't be greedy esp when I can progress consistently with 1kg jumps.

BS notes:
Really really tempted to switch focus to BS now - but i'd rather get to my short-term front squat goal first before changing up. BS is going great. Just keep form honest and add weight, nothing more to be said.

BP notes:
I'm really missing dbs. But not enough to go out and splash out on my own. Bother..

Partial DL:
I used the bottom most safety pin on my rack. It's a bit high though. Just below my knees, kind of a dead stop RDL, if it's still an RDL done without the stretch reflex? If my lower back is sore tomorrow then i'll stick with these rack pulls. Otherwise I might need to get a trap bar.

Jumps notes:
Landed 2 rvj dunks. couldn't land an svj one, think my legs were too tired.

Dips notes:

Used the playground equipment to do these. Not a fan. IF i was using a 20kg plate it would have been obstructed to the point where it wasn't possible to do them normally. So i need to arrange a way to do these at home too. but i'm loath to spend more money on gym stuff it's an empty black hole really.

Conditoning notes:

And finally the good news! I got my 2 conditioning sessions in for the week. Feels good man. Be consistent on these and i'll definitely lose that next inch of blubber! Believe!!!!!!

So tired, want to sleep. Even too tired to physically hold my tooth brush.

Random (to you not to me) thoughts
Weighted vest :- I think as my bodyweight goes down, I should find a way to keep my training bodyweight at around 80kg. Why do you ask? Because while my athletic bodyweight might be say 72kg (or 159lb) - I don't really want my body to get lazy and used to being super light weight. Eventually I want to be a lean 80kg - so I think I should maintain an effective 80kg training bodyweight regardless of my current bodyweight thruout the cut. Atm it's not too bad (training bw ~ 77-79kg), but as I get lighter, i'll need to add artificial weight. Any ideas? Am thinking of a weighted vest.

Home made dips setup :- I've never tried it but i've heard if you use two barbells in a power rack you can do dips in them. But I only have one barbell. I wish I could weld, would be easy to rig up a dipping attachment for my power rack. Hmm.

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#20/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 26, 2013, 02:17:18 am
This is new - doms in my neck?! Not sure what made that happen.. dips or bench? but neither of those have had that effect before so shrug. Or maybe the rack pulls I did for the first time.. perhaps.

Diet unfriendly day today, have to meet with friends. Will have to try mitigate damage by fasting prior, taking some caffeine and doing some fasted walking and see how it goes.

(http://i.imgur.com/0ocd4K0.png)
BW: 75.8kg / 167.11lb

I've falled behind the pace a bit. I think i'm holding water though. Anyway i'll make up for it when the consistent conditioning sessions start to pay off.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 26, 2013, 04:54:47 am
Rack pulls.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on January 26, 2013, 10:56:05 am
You think having longer legs to upper body ratio gives a person more of an advantage?  Also 6'5 person vs 5'8 person, both have the exact same proportions and genetics and body shape.  Both have equal amt of strength, but wouldn't the 6'5 person be able to jump higher because he has longer legs so more room to propel him up?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 26, 2013, 01:48:10 pm
Rack pulls.

Interesting. Well i wouldn't mind growing my neck. Only wish the pulls had done something for my lower back but it's completely dom free! doh. Guess will have to find a way to work my back.

You think having longer legs to upper body ratio gives a person more of an advantage?  Also 6'5 person vs 5'8 person, both have the exact same proportions and genetics and body shape.  Both have equal amt of strength, but wouldn't the 6'5 person be able to jump higher because he has longer legs so more room to propel him up?

I think so - but taller guys have trouble with the powerlifts & olympic lifts. If you have long ass arms you can't do the olympic lifts well for example  which is bad for the typical basketball player. Powerlifts also don't favor longer limbs since the rom is greater. The other thing is for a taller guy to be a competitive lifter he has to weigh a LOT which means you're not going to be very athletic (our chris is the exception) even if strong. So I think for a taller guy you give up chasing big lifts since the excess weight is detrimental to athleticism. Shorter guys can be very strong and lean at a decent bodyweight that isn't too heavy (so say 170-180) while at the same time being light enough to be athletic. But a taller guy in that range isn't going to be very strong because there isn't much meat on him. So i think you have to look at the individual case - everyone is different. Someone like lance is a beast at 6'3" benching 400 while squatting 500 highbar at 220. Myself? I'm a huge fat ass at 200 so i'm never gonna approach the strength of someone like him because I just dont' have the muscle mass to be a good lifter for my frame and rom.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 26, 2013, 03:54:41 pm
Whenever I do cleans and snatches I get A TON of trap soreness... usually due to lowering the bar back to the top of the legs under control (since I can't just drop the bar in a commercial gym).
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day#22/45 to single digit bf%
Post by: entropy on January 28, 2013, 05:29:56 am
Training
FS 2x90, 1x100, 3x103.5, 3x100, 4x97.5, 4x95
BS 3x90, 1x100, 2x105, 6x90

FS notes:
Form was almost perfect today. By that I mean as is practically possible. But I was weak, have not been sleeping or recovering well - just life issues.

BS notes:
Had to rush thru this very quickly. Wanted to do more volume than this but was out of time.


Have to do only half of the workout - might do upper body later tonight - going to an australia day bbq. Happy australia day for all my ozzie peeps!

raptor, spot on, it must be the set downs on the rack pulls. Good call.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism - Day#1/60
Post by: entropy on January 29, 2013, 06:52:45 am
Training for basketball begins now. I've somehow managed to put together a team. Time to get in basketball shape asap. I will try to get sub 75kg for my ideal playing bodyweight but as far as chasing a sixpac that's not a priority right now. It sure would be nice. But it's not the main thing right now. Going to go shoot around and practice dribbling with my heavy ball.

updates.. lolzy pop.. i dislike playing basketball on the outdoor court because random ppl always want to shoot with you even though they've never played ball before. but today i ran into a homeless man who struck up a conversation, said he had cancer and was dying in 2 years (do they even even give prognosis that far out?). nice enough guy, and clearly intelligent but fuck man.. just wanted to shoot some hoops not listen to someones drunken sob stories. need to find a new bball court..
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Coges on January 29, 2013, 06:35:43 pm
Good on you for getting back into ball. Was one of the best things I did motivation wise for trianing.
The only problem I have is timing the workouts. I find training legs the day before playing leaves me flat and the day after I fear the weights will suffer. Am thinking of training the day of playing and see how it goes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 30, 2013, 05:08:39 am
Good on you for getting back into ball. Was one of the best things I did motivation wise for trianing.

This is so true. I'm more focused now that there is a stake to it. Not just lifting to impress guys on the internet (thanks guy from Jersey Shore) but to be more competitive on the court.

Quote
The only problem I have is timing the workouts. I find training legs the day before playing leaves me flat and the day after I fear the weights will suffer. Am thinking of training the day of playing and see how it goes.

Million dollar question right there and very timely. I've always ran into this problem myself. I mirror your observations but lifting the day after game time meant having very sore knees which meant lifting was a bad idea. Lifting on the same day as games meant tired legs. Think the balance might be something like legs in the AM, games in the PM - giving a bit of spacing there?

So i might go join my old rec teammates tonight .. they have a late game, just to get some match fitness now that i'm going to be putting together a proper team it's imperative that I get back match fitness asap, esp if I will demand high level of dedication from my team mates. Exciting stuff.

dont read below if you dont want to be exposed to oversharing info..
Also not to be that guy on the net who logs his bowel movements in a training journal - but i've been literally shitting all day - I woke up a solid 76kg in the morning (76.00kg) and i've just reweighed myself now in the evening and i'm 75.95kg!! Which means my morning bodyweight on Feb 1st might be sub 75kg. That would be so sick.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #2/60
Post by: entropy on January 30, 2013, 08:33:57 am
Training
FS 2x90, 1x100, 4x103.5, 5x98.5
BS 3x90, 1x100, 5x102.5, 5x97.5
OHP 4x55, 5x53.5, 5x52.5

WCU 3xBW, 3x82, 2x87, 1x92, 2x97, 3x92, 5x87, 5x85, 6x82, 6x79.5
TM 7kph, 20mins, 0inc

BW: 75.95kg / 167.44lb

FS notes:
Yes this is some quad dominant squatting. But form wasn't perfect today. I wasn't strong, didn't have the endurance to eek out heavy reps. Still 4 reps is ok, i'll get the 5 rep PR next time for sure. Very deep reps though.

BS notes:
Scary shit grinders today.. godaaaamn nuts icon...

OHP notes:
New cues im trying, slight knee bend thruout the lift. Flex calves and glutes/quads to give a stable base. Felt good.

Conditioning notes:
Had the bright idea to break in my new bball shoes by running on the TM. Kinda worked, they got more comfy as time went on. Hopefully I can play in them this wknd.


Had a break for dinner, will do weighted chins and TM running later before bed.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on January 30, 2013, 09:36:33 am
just grab some maalox, man. you'll be sub-75 in no time.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on January 30, 2013, 10:27:28 am
I took Maalox... what's that doing? Took it for stomach pain.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 30, 2013, 12:23:51 pm
lol.. i'm so regreting over sharing now ..

lets change the subject matter

(http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/397058_3557272870382_86511822_n.jpg)

 :D :D :wowthatwasnutswtf:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Coges on January 30, 2013, 08:21:04 pm
Million dollar question right there and very timely. I've always ran into this problem myself. I mirror your observations but lifting the day after game time meant having very sore knees which meant lifting was a bad idea. Lifting on the same day as games meant tired legs. Think the balance might be something like legs in the AM, games in the PM - giving a bit of spacing there?

Yep. That's what I'm thinking right there. Lifting AM and playing PM. I'm going to give it a shot Monday so will let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on January 31, 2013, 02:14:03 am
Million dollar question right there and very timely. I've always ran into this problem myself. I mirror your observations but lifting the day after game time meant having very sore knees which meant lifting was a bad idea. Lifting on the same day as games meant tired legs. Think the balance might be something like legs in the AM, games in the PM - giving a bit of spacing there?

Yep. That's what I'm thinking right there. Lifting AM and playing PM. I'm going to give it a shot Monday so will let you know how it goes.

Awesome, keep us updated.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #3/60 (under 75kg!)
Post by: entropy on January 31, 2013, 02:18:41 am
(http://i.imgur.com/tpGBrzo.png)

BW: 74.9kg / 165.13lb (PR!)

Finally a whoosh on the scale. I don't think i'm visually any leaner though? But whatever, milestone achieved - sub 75kg! But i'm not celebrating because i'm still fat lol. So guess I need to get to around into the 73s before I stop being fat? No problem, i've never been more motivated than I am now because this contest will be great competition and I don't want to get embarrassed by younger, talented, faster more athletic guys.

Also for what it's worth, starting to get that quad tear drop effect happening again. Shows I'm on the right track in terms of leg training.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #4/60
Post by: entropy on February 01, 2013, 08:26:40 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 5x103.5 (PR)
BS 3x90, 1x100, 5x102.5
BP 5x73.5, 5x72.5, 5x70
SVJx5, RVJx3

BW: <75kg

FS notes:
Finally got the PR. And I did it at a BW under 75kg which makes me doubly pleased. I reckon my max is now over 120kg. Feels good man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDdhTsgcS-I
Form imperfect but honestly even the 100kg warmup was heavy, i kind of did really well to get the PR so I'm ok with it.

BS notes:
Ok.

Jumping notes:
Felt slow and sluggish today but still was able to jump as good as ever. I landed all my dunks didn't miss any, even the first warmup one which was a SVJ one btw! I did the first double hand SVJ dunk on this rim which i couldn't do before. And then did a coupla RVJ just to see how easy it is for me to dunk now, it's almost effortless. Oh did crash one powerful SVJ into my face though, knocking off my glasses, damn, that sucks, they're bent now.


Didn't sprint/run today, just feel too fatigued, will save it for sunday's bball training.  Too fatigued.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on February 01, 2013, 10:06:57 am
^ nice... what's your vertical nowadays?
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 01, 2013, 10:10:35 am
^ nice... what's your vertical nowadays?

No idea, it's on my TODONE list to make a vertec. I'll prob get around to it when I've finished the cut which is prob gonna be the end of feb. I dont want to cut any longer than that, i'm sick of cutting it's destroying my soul (diva mode enabled).. lol.. but yea once i'm done cutting, i'll focus on pylos and stuff to maximise my vj. It's probably low 30s now conservatively? i dunno. im hoping to have a solid 36" vert when the big bball tournament rolls around in 56 days.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on February 01, 2013, 10:28:28 am
jesus christ, you're not fat. you've done an incredibly impressive job cutting down. the discipline is there, no question. but you're starting to get like adarq circa 2011 with his athletic anorexia shit. i realize you're kind of kidding but distorted body image ain't a joke. you're getting to the point where no matter how much weight you lose, you won't look that much leaner because you're thin. t0ddday had a good post about this a while back. three 6' tall guys at ~10% bf, one weighs 165 pounds, one weighs 175 pounds and one weighs 185 pounds. all else being equal, who looks leanest? the heaviest guy. adarq, even when he was under 150 pounds, never looked super lean. whereas t0ddday and kingfish look ripped despite weighing more at shorter heights and probably having equal or higher bf%.

what i'm saying is, let's do a bit of a bulk together, my brother. you can always lose the weight again later.

awesome depth on the front squats, btw.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Raptor on February 01, 2013, 02:38:12 pm
You need to be 110 lbs to be cut at 6'3.

Proven undeniable FACT!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 02, 2013, 02:23:25 am
Oh shit! First of all I appreciate the looking out dawg! And I totally get the impression of being reversehypetrophy 2013 EDITION. You'll prob seize on this revelation but the other day for the 2nd time this year, I put a hot chip (or french fry in USA speak) in my mouth, savored the taste but then sooner expelled it into the bin than injest the unwanted calories. And that sounds borderline admittedly lol. But you'll have to believe me when I say i'm still very much fat..! I've got snitch tits that could fill a 34A cup (i just measured lol) and a generous gut and plenty of back bacon around my waist.

Plz alow me at most another 6lb weight loss - at 159lb i'll be done cutting and then i'll be in that kyle macdowell ideal zone of ~10% bf for bulking. I'm terrified of doing a bulk now in case I end up spinning my wheels only to wind up where I first started off so I wanna finally do things the right way by finishing the job (cut). I'm hoping to spend the rest of the year either bulking or maintaining - so it's not like i'm going to cut forever, just enough to reset my bodyfat to athletic levels. Also I think i'm a special snowflake because most ppl who lift, nevermind guys above 6ft would be ripped at 165 and i'm definitely not.. so i have to accept the painful reality that i'm always going to be a lot lighter than most ppl unless i'm fat.

The point T0dday made is a good one but the difference between those 3 guys when ordered from lightest to heaviest is 9lb of muscle and 1lb of fat for the guy next to him. So to go up a 10lb weight category i'd need to add a whopping 9lb of muscle and only 1lb of fat. I'm not confident i'm in a position to naturally add that kind of ratio of muscle and fat, even if I allow for cutting excess bodyfat, it's just too much to ask, knowing my body, and it's reluctance to build mass. But the one thing I can control is dropping from a higher weight category to a lower one by cutting, that's totally in my control. If I could click my fingers and and add 9lb of muscle to maintain my bodyfat, I would so do it.  But unfortunately in the real world the only way to add 9lb of mass is thru a decent bulk, and it will invariably also push my total bodyfat to unacceptable levels. Im not willing to risk making no progress by bulking now, only to undo my hard work cutting so far, ending up spinning my wheels because I started bulking at my current level of fatness esp when i've worked so hard to get where i'm atm.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 03, 2013, 04:52:49 am
So had the first training session with the new team. Had a decent turn out, 9 guys came down. But that's not as great as it sounds because only 4 are committed atm. I made the typical retard mistake I do soemtimes where I played on an empty stomach. I guess I thought I would go super light weight and land some dunks or whatever but I was so gassed running up and down the court that the one time I had a fast break I hit the rim on my dunk. lesson learnt, will have my weetbix (metaphorically speaking) in the morning before practice.

Lots of good signs, I'm liking the team quite a bit. As a team we have good defence. I was pretty dominant on defence too.  Didn't really come into offence much short of drawing double teams opening up lanes for team mates. Which is ok. I wanted to show my boys I can put the ball down or pass the ball well but my conditioning let me down. Guys expect me to post up and play with my back to the rim, which I hate because it's not my game. Hopefully next time we will have an extra big so I can play my natural game. It's okay. I'll work on it. And I think having played so hard today, I wont be able to train weights tomorrow. But that's a trade off I'll have to make.

So yea lots of things to fix. I'll have to raise my game a lot, i was fairly disappointed with myself, but it's early days yet.

Btw, weighed 74kg when I got home. Damn this heat wave .. crazy summer ahead..
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Mutumbo000 on February 03, 2013, 06:24:48 am
fwiw charlie francis was a big proponent of lower back strength as key to fast sprinting. i think it's in "speed trap" where he describes ben johnson's erector spinae as "the size of a man's forearm."

Guess I'm a bit late on the convo but I remember seeing this vid ages ago talking about the key to a cheetah's speed and one of the characteristics was the cheetah's spine.
This was the vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-zcA_mOa94

"Within 3 seconds it's reached 90km/hour. As it closes in it hits maximum speed- 120km/hour. A wide range of factors effect an animals speed. Environment, body type, predation, and more. And every one of those factors has come together in the evolution of the cheetah to create the ultimate sprinting machine. The head. Smallest relative size of any cat, it's aerodynamic design cuts through wind like a bullet. The collarbone reduced and free floating it's like a tiny axle for quick tight turns. A massive chest holding a huge heart and lungs to pump fuel to the muscles. Legs. Long and light with extended achilles tendons for superior shock absorption. Claws. Non-retractable like a dogs they dig into the earth with every stride providing traction. And the heavy tail, which helps the cheetah steer.
Speed is really generated from strides. Once every foot has touched the ground once. Any running animal to increase its speed needs to increase its stride length or its stride rate and cheetah's have managed to increase both of those. Scientists studying humans have shown that runners need powerful leg muscles for long strides. These muscles bring the leg down hard launching the runner into the air for long leap like stride. But the cheetah's legs are thin and fragile so how do they achieve long strides? Most people assume that cheetah's speed is generated from their legs. They must have really powerful legs. It's actually their spine. About 60% of a cheetah's muscle mass is packed onto its spine. So if you combine that with those long gaited legs you get an animal that has an average of about a 23 foot stride length and that's incredible. Flexing its spine like a coiled spring, the cheetah's body flies out airborne for a distance more than 5x it's length at a top speed of 4 strides per second the cheetah can cover an entire football field in a fraction over 3 seconds. The cheetah's speed is the secret to it's survival an asset that evolved sometime between 3 and 5 million years ago.
Every feature of the cheetah says speed. Bones are lightweight. A long flexible spine spring rolls each stride, which can cover almost 30 feet in a quarter second. To sustain this incredible speed the cheetah sucks in oxygen through oversized intake valves. Large nasal passages. It's lungs, liver, heart and adrenal glands are supersized to kick its metabolism into high gear".

Good job on getting back into basketball as well. You'll get back into basketball condition just by playing more games and getting used to it again.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 05, 2013, 01:32:10 am
So i'm still not fully recovered from the hectic basketball training session over teh weekend. In hindsight I went a bit too hard, esp on my first time playing basketball since July last year. I've got a lot of assymetric soreness, left side of my body, starting from foot, calves, hamstring, glutes and all the way up to lower back. I guess i'm just that much left side dominant.

But either way i'm going to train today (tuesday) - i figure i'll do a lot of volume today. Then take 2 days off, and go heavy on friday. Rest saturday, and then basketball training sundays. Only 2 weights session a week? Enough to maintain my lifts/mass? Hope so. Enough to build strength? Doubt it very much. Esp while cutting, it's probably too little. Which makes me think perhaps I should just accept it as a compromise, force my way to say FS 5x105 (PR) and then hold it there thru feb while I cut the last few pounds of adipose. Then starting march i'll go maintenance/slight surplus and maybe start pushing them up again? We'll see. I hate planning this far out when i'm strugglign so much with day to day planning and scheduling.

Yeah mutumbo my conditioning is terrible. Like really bad. I regret not keeping it up, esp when at one point last year I was well conditioned. Hopefully it will come back quickly though. I need to raise my game to another level.

Re lower back strength, you guys have convinced me. Im going to push my lower back strength up like crazy. My legs are weak but my back is even weaker. Squatting makes my legs a bit stronger sure. But nothing is making my back stronger which is a problem. If I want to be a good sprinter i'll def have to prioritise my lower back.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on February 05, 2013, 03:18:46 am
^ Ehhh...  I don't want to bash the cheetah (an awesome animal for sure).... but comparing the mechanism by which a quadruped accelerates to bilateral bipedal human locomotion is pretty out of left field.   Active lower back strength is somewhat helpful to the hip hinge involved in a running vertical jump or in double leg bounding... but pretty much nonexistent in sprinting.   Isometric back strength IS essential to holding speed at high velocity but unless your at a pretty elite level it's probably not what's holding you back...  Guys running multiple <0.9 10m splits are so strong and have such tremendous leg stiffness that weakness in isometric strength can cause breakdown when they reach high speed.   Most amateurs lack the leg stiffness and even the basic hamstring strength necessary to run fast enough, essentially your breaking down way before you back is really that important.   

@Entropy:

How is the sprinting coming?  How have your times coincided with your diet?  I am a little late to the party as far as your extreme weight loss but while I agreed initially with LBSS I am essentially puzzled by your numbers.   Your 6'3, 160 pounds, and just posted a video of 5 reps of bottomed out front squats (so you have decent strength).   You also posted that you were >=20% bodyfat at 190lbs and still look "fat", despite the fact that you should be closing in on 5% now.   And you are training as a sprinter which is IMO the best training for body composition....

While at first glance it seems you should stop trying to lose weight.... It seems you have gained strength despite getting really small.  This certainly isn't in-line with extreme weight loss.  I can maintain strength while cutting into the single digits, but strength absolutely tanks at around 5% bodyfat.  By tanks I mean squat goes from 400's to 200's.  And speed endurance becomes non-existent which makes track workouts impossible.   

Either:

1) you have hollow bones (pretty awesome, like a bird)
2) Your scale/ruler is broken
3) You think you look fat but suffer from body dysmorphia (you should post a picture for the sane members of the forum to evalute)
4) You were extremely inactive/fat for a lot of your life, have a small frame, and have added decent squat strength despite an overall lack of musculature and some stubborn fat deposits/extra skin which keeps you from looking lean with your shirt off despite the fact that you actually have a low overall percentage of bf.  You store almost no fat on your legs, glutes, back, but have a bit of adipose on your love handles/chest where a few pounds can keep you from looking lean...


If I had to guess I would say it's probably a tiny bit of 3 and a lot of 4 (although I'm holding out hope for #1).   As such I would advise you to stop the active cutting right away.  It's great that you have built up some decent squat strength while cutting...  But now that your neural gains are likely plateauing the worst thing you can do is sabotage you ability to push up your basic strength with a restrictive diet.  I understand that you want to look lean but you are already 6'3 160.  I also know that you probably look a lot better at 160 than 190 and you want to continue the progress.  But you are already REALLY small.   If the problem isn't total fat but fat storage then putting your body in a poor hormonal state from restrictive dieting is only going to exacerbate where you put fat.       

Just my two cents, but you are at a good point and here is what I would do if I were you.   Stop cutting.  But DO NOT BULK.  At least not the bulk that 95% of people do to gain strength.  You are spot on when you say you fear spinning your wheels by making your progress and then fattening up and adding some strength but losing or maintaining relative strength.   You have built up a lot of discipline from dieting.  You can summon on that discipline to maximize your potential.  Keep the training up.  Add some carbs post-workout [~50g] and one other time per day (preferably morning unless you train really early) get a minimum of 100 grams of protein and some oils in your diet and when you are hungry try to reaching for primarily good protein sources and eat until your almost full.  You still shouldn't eat that "hot chip" and probably never should.  Stay away from alcohol and keep the training intense try and the volume decent.  Consider adding other compound movements like standing barbell presses, oly lifts, and deadlifts to your training.  You could even bench press.   Get on the track all the time.  Do speed work but don't neglect speed endurance workouts.  They will hurt but they will get you to win races and they will get you lean and they will get you to recomp.   I have yet to see a guy who doesn't neglect his weight training and runs himself into basic track shape (example:  3 400m's in sub 60 w/3 minutes rest or 10 200's under 30 with 1 min rest) who looks "fat".  This holds even for idiot college athletes who subsist on orange soda and dorm food.   These guys look remarkably leaner after a couple weeks of two-a-days despite binging on pizza each night.   You get sufficient protein and don't binge eat and you tilt the equation even more in your favor.  Take a picture now and take a picture after... My bet is you might be a few pounds heavier... But who cares.  You will be a hell of a better athlete... and that is what you are chasing...

Again, just my two cents.  Hope you improve no matter what path you choose. 

Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #8/60
Post by: entropy on February 05, 2013, 08:44:25 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 3x104.5, 3x100, 4x97.5, 4x95
BS 3x90, 5x97.5, 5x95, 5x92.5, 5x90

FS notes:
Form was good. Was real rusty warming up though but it all went ok. I avoided failure didn't attempt the 5 rep PR on the 104.5. I figure there is no point grinding myself to dust this workout, save that for the 2nd workout of the week. Could have muscled up a 5th rep on all those sets but didn't court failure on those either.

BS notes:
Did 20 reps today, the prettiest set was the last one, nothing heavy. Will go for a 5 rep heavy set next time.

And that's it. Decent amount of squat volume, nothing else. Tomorrow i'll do upper body. In promptu decided to try a bodypart split again cause I wasn't up to full body death by volume.

Also re above posts, not going to do a kneejerk reply, have to read your post carefully and understand it before responding. Thanks so much for the advice, i'm very lucky.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on February 05, 2013, 10:50:03 am
for the record, by "bulk" i did not mean "GOMAD!!!" or "pizza every day!!!"
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 06, 2013, 05:16:18 am
How is the sprinting coming?  How have your times coincided with your diet? 
I'll find out for you this friday, I haven't tested since I weighed mid 180s. Should be interesting to see how it goes!

Quote
While at first glance it seems you should stop trying to lose weight.... It seems you have gained strength despite getting really small.  This certainly isn't in-line with extreme weight loss.
I have to agree with this. If I was as lean as it would seem for my height and weight, then I would be struggling bigtime with trying to progress my squat. But actually I am progressing even though it's very slow, my lifts aren't plummeting by any means, if anything im consistently adding weight to the bar (albeit over a timescale of several weeks and months). The fact that I originally thought I was 20% doesn't mean i'm 5% now, it just means I was a initially lot higher than 20% - prob high 20s? It's most likely that i simply underestimated my initial bodyfat which a lot of people do when they're fat.

Quote
Either:

1) you have hollow bones (pretty awesome, like a bird)
2) Your scale/ruler is broken
3) You think you look fat but suffer from body dysmorphia (you should post a picture for the sane members of the forum to evalute)
4) You were extremely inactive/fat for a lot of your life, have a small frame, and have added decent squat strength despite an overall lack of musculature and some stubborn fat deposits/extra skin which keeps you from looking lean with your shirt off despite the fact that you actually have a low overall percentage of bf.  You store almost no fat on your legs, glutes, back, but have a bit of adipose on your love handles/chest where a few pounds can keep you from looking lean...

Straight away we can rule out 2 because I've checked my bodyweight against the scales at the gym and it matches close to the pair I have in the bathroom. I dont think I have body dysmorphia, I don't think i'm someone anorexic thinking he's fatter than he is. I don't want to be super skinny in the first place! It's something i'm having to do so that I can gain mass optimally later on.

This is taken 2nd of Jan this year. I'm leaner now though but not significantly. Weighed around ~168.

So that leaves hollow bones.. and small frame and inactive during the ages 18-21 and then 22-27. I was very active as a teen but my diet was terrible and I was almost anoexic thru puberty (how I wish I could go back in time and change that!). I think this is probably it. For someone who weighs 165 at 6'3" I don't look small at all, I look pretty big. I think that's an illusion due to my small frame. I'm tall yes but I don't think i'm that wide? So the 165 is distributed in a way which makes it seem plentiful and as a result I look a lot heavier than I weigh (in my admittedly biased opinion). But then again I don't have tiny wrists or ankles, mine are 6.5" and 8.5" respectively, which I think is average or above average? I honestly can't explain it.  Your guess as good as mine.

For what it's worth, I woke up today looking and feeling (=pinch test) a lot leaner than I did the day before. So it's like i've had an overnight transformation. It gives me confidence that i'm on the right track. Steadily with time, the pinches are getting smaller, and there is less jiggling in the mirror when I jump about. I dont think i'm in danger of getting into single digits of bodyfat .. yet. Yes, that goes completely against intuition, I don't expect you to believe that someone with my height and weight is still this fat.. but it is what it is.. i'm not sure what I can do about it short of staying the course.

Let me put it this way. The fat around my waist and chest wont disappear if I suddenly gain 9lb of muscle. It will still be there. I'll still LOOK fat even if my objective bodyfat % has gone down from adding more muscle. And that what really matters to me. I guess at some point I decided I didn't care about what a DEXA would say about my bodyfat % (whether it's 7% or 17% means nothing to me), nor skinfold calipers and what have you. The only test that matters to me is looking in a mirror and seeing someone lean and athletic - or not - and since i'm not - i'd like to keep dropping bodyfat until I get there. I dont expect I have very long to go now. I'd say about 1lb of fat in my upper body, 1.5lb around my lower back. 1.5 around my gut. Maybe another 2lb around my body in general. A total of 6lb. At 159 I think i'll definitely be done. I'm around ~165 now. So it's not a long way away. We've all seen the video below or some model of bodyfat before, that's what i'm using for my rough estimate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V52At_gnZKM

Quote
Just my two cents, but you are at a good point and here is what I would do if I were you.   Stop cutting.  But DO NOT BULK.  At least not the bulk that 95% of people do to gain strength.  You are spot on when you say you fear spinning your wheels by making your progress and then fattening up and adding some strength but losing or maintaining relative strength.   You have built up a lot of discipline from dieting.  You can summon on that discipline to maximize your potential.  Keep the training up.  Add some carbs post-workout [~50g] and one other time per day (preferably morning unless you train really early) get a minimum of 100 grams of protein and some oils in your diet and when you are hungry try to reaching for primarily good protein sources and eat until your almost full.  You still shouldn't eat that "hot chip" and probably never should.  Stay away from alcohol and keep the training intense try and the volume decent.  Consider adding other compound movements like standing barbell presses, oly lifts, and deadlifts to your training.  You could even bench press.   Get on the track all the time.  Do speed work but don't neglect speed endurance workouts.  They will hurt but they will get you to win races and they will get you lean and they will get you to recomp.   I have yet to see a guy who doesn't neglect his weight training and runs himself into basic track shape (example:  3 400m's in sub 60 w/3 minutes rest or 10 200's under 30 with 1 min rest) who looks "fat".  This holds even for idiot college athletes who subsist on orange soda and dorm food.   These guys look remarkably leaner after a couple weeks of two-a-days despite binging on pizza each night.   You get sufficient protein and don't binge eat and you tilt the equation even more in your favor.  Take a picture now and take a picture after... My bet is you might be a few pounds heavier... But who cares.  You will be a hell of a better athlete... and that is what you are chasing...

I pretty much agree with everything you've written here starting with being patient with gains and not trying to gain too much weight all at once. That's definitely how i'll be doing it. My diet has been dialled in for a long time now, I get around 160g of protein a day, and keep fat intake low but I do eat healthy fats like egg yolk and fish oil and use minimal olive oil in cooking.  Will def keep that up long after I stop cutting but i'll increase the amount. Carbs i dont mess around with, if i eat too little my mood plummets and my physical performance goes along with it. So I keep carb intake around 100-150g a day. As I get leaner I might have to manipulate carbs though - but so far I haven't needed to. I already use heavy compound movements like bench and overhead press and will keep that up as well. I do need to add heavy deadlifts though but i've had problems with form which scare me off. But yes i'll def try the 2-a-days and heavy track work. That sounds like a great change of pace. And to make it worthwhile i'll put myself down to enter a meet this year too to motivate myself.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #9/60
Post by: entropy on February 06, 2013, 08:38:20 am
Training (Upper)
DIPZ 3x5x15 (PR)
BP 5x74.5, 6x70, 5x70, 5x67.5, 6x65

BW: 75kg/165 lb

Something funny going on with my left forearm just below the wrist.. like RSI or something. Im gonna try use the right hand for the mouse/kb til it goes away.

Mad doms in the quads, adductors and hamstrings. Knees dont feel amazing, otherwise i'm tempted to go for a run or practice some jumpshots but will just wait til tomorrow practice. And sprint on friday.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on February 07, 2013, 09:45:09 am

I have to agree with this. If I was as lean as it would seem for my height and weight, then I would be struggling bigtime with trying to progress my squat. But actually I am progressing even though it's very slow, my lifts aren't plummeting by any means, if anything im consistently adding weight to the bar (albeit over a timescale of several weeks and months). The fact that I originally thought I was 20% doesn't mean i'm 5% now, it just means I was a initially lot higher than 20% - prob high 20s? It's most likely that i simply underestimated my initial bodyfat which a lot of people do when they're fat.
Quote

I don't know what you looked like but I really doubt you were in the high 20%.  High 20% male is REALLY fat.  Like someone who walks into the room and everyone knows it's the fat guy.  Since you are dieting right now you are probably holding a bit of water.   I went from 210 to 190 once and my bodyfat (hydrostatic measurement) went from 9% to 5%.  This only accounts for about half the weight, but this is typical.  About half the weight you lose on a cut if bodyfat, a tiny amount (if you do it right) will be lean tissue, and almost half should be water from lack of glycogen.  Remember hydrophilic  glycogen isn't very efficient, about 4 grams of water are in complex with each gram (this is why the body stores fat), so we lose a lot of weight when you cut it.  This weight loss comes off quick and comes back quick, it's why people think they are yoyoing and gaining/losing fat (for the most part they are not).  I can gain 10-15lbs in one day from an extreme glycogen reload... I have a decent amount of muscle so this might be a bit more than some but most of us will be able to gain/loss a lot this way.  If you were 195 and now your 165 I would estimate you were went from 18-20% bf to about 10-12% bf.   Your bodyfat loss probably accounts for 15-20 lbs which is AWESOME.


(http://i.imgur.com/DUADQ2R.png)
This is taken 2nd of Jan this year. I'm leaner now though but not significantly. Weighed around ~168.

Let me put it this way. The fat around my waist and chest wont disappear if I suddenly gain 9lb of muscle. It will still be there. I'll still LOOK fat even if my objective bodyfat % has gone down from adding more muscle. And that what really matters to me. I guess at some point I decided I didn't care about what a DEXA would say about my bodyfat % (whether it's 7% or 17% means nothing to me), nor skinfold calipers and what have you. The only test that matters to me is looking in a mirror and seeing someone lean and athletic - or not - and since i'm not - i'd like to keep dropping bodyfat until I get there. I dont expect I have very long to go now. I'd say about 1lb of fat in my upper body, 1.5lb around my lower back. 1.5 around my gut. Maybe another 2lb around my body in general. A total of 6lb. At 159 I think i'll definitely be done. I'm around ~165 now. So it's not a long way away. We've all seen the video below or some model of bodyfat before, that's what i'm using for my rough estimate.


No offense, but maybe a bit of dysmorphia.  If you are leaner than the guy in the picture... You have done pretty well for yourself.  The first thing I notice about the guy in the shoulder is undeveloped delts, not excess fat! 

I DO understand that you think (and probably do to an extent) have extra unsightly fat around your chest or waist.  Some of it excess skin which will tighten over time and some of it additional adipose tissue.  But what I am saying is that while it's DISAPPEAR if you suddenly gain 9lb of muscle... It's not necessarily going to go away either when you get to 159 or 155 or 149... but all those numbers might cause your strength gains to slow or reverse and that's certainly a bad thing.  Like you said all that fat that you want to get rid of probably weighs about 2-3 lbs.  While it's unsightly, it's the minority of of the fat on your body.   If you get to 159 it's likely you might finally lose a bit of muscle, lose a few lbs of fats from your legs where you can't really see it lose some water. 

Fact is you need to accept that you are getting so lean that it's going to be hard to cut further fat without losses in LBM with restrictive dieting alone.  Love handle fat is largely hormonal and probably will be some of the last fat to come off your body. 

I didn't mean to throw LBSS under the bus with his advice to cut... I'm sure he knows what a sound approach is to nutrition but unfortunately the phrase "go on a bulk" has just a negative connotation thanks to the legion of rippetoe followers who totally bastardize the idea of gaining a bit of weight to get strength up....    I wrote some advice about bulking to dreyth that you might want to check out.  I think it's fitting for you as well.   In the long run if you set out the goal to touch 159... go for it.  It probably won't kill you and their is some psychological value to achieving goals which I will admit.   However, it sounds like your goal was 165 and you amended it because you still have some unsightly fat... Please don't amend it again if you still have it at 159 (you probably will).    Instead you should focus on controlling your nutrition (read the dreyth post) and adding tempo work to your fitness (or you can swim or whatever, I only favor tempo from track).     I had the pleasure to speak with Charlie Francis about the value of tempo/system work and what he had discovered from years of training athletes was that tempo was absolutely necessary for female sprinters (who are hormonally a lot worse off than you)  because when they just did speed work and weight training they held too much fat, but when they dieted down to hit weight to cut bf they lost too much strength/muscle  (where you are at)  but with tempo work they could maintain low-bodyfat without sacrificing calories and in turn losing muscle/strength.   It sounds strange but I always recommend amateur male athletes take serious they training/diet that works for elite women, because elite men have genetic/drug advantages which might make their gains inapplicable.

Think about it like this.  You just lost 30lbs and 20lbs of fat.  Now time to get some muscle.  Get the tempo work in and you won't gain much fat along your next phase.  I know you want to lose an extra lb of love handle but at some point you gotta say I just lost 20lbs... Maybe that love handle is for round 2.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: pelham32 on February 07, 2013, 12:13:32 pm
You are definitely lean enough to bulk!!! unless you are trying to look like Martin Berkhan.. just don't do the GOMAD thing and have a clean bulk. for example a higher protein intake
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on February 07, 2013, 12:42:26 pm
yeah for the record i did not mean GOMAD BRO!!!!!!!!!!

not sure what t0ddddddday means by my "advice to cut" -- maybe just mistyped. my advice was to stop cutting and to begin thinking about adding muscle. that can obviously be done the rippetoe way, but the rippetoe way is sub-optimal in this context as we have all discussed. for what it's worth i agree completely with t0ddday and i think we were saying the same thing. he just did so in greater depth and fewer references to jesus.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: Coges on February 07, 2013, 05:28:56 pm
Let me put it this way. The fat around my waist and chest wont disappear if I suddenly gain 9lb of muscle. It will still be there. I'll still LOOK fat even if my objective bodyfat % has gone down from adding more muscle. And that what really matters to me. I guess at some point I decided I didn't care about what a DEXA would say about my bodyfat % (whether it's 7% or 17% means nothing to me), nor skinfold calipers and what have you. The only test that matters to me is looking in a mirror and seeing someone lean and athletic - or not - and since i'm not - i'd like to keep dropping bodyfat until I get there. I dont expect I have very long to go now. I'd say about 1lb of fat in my upper body, 1.5lb around my lower back. 1.5 around my gut. Maybe another 2lb around my body in general. A total of 6lb. At 159 I think i'll definitely be done. I'm around ~165 now. So it's not a long way away. We've all seen the video below or some model of bodyfat before, that's what i'm using for my rough estimate.

Have you seen anything written by Anthony Mychal at www.anthonymychal.com ?
He's big on the skinny fat syndrome (as he calls it) and talks about some psychological baggage that comes with it. I've read pretty much all of his stuff cause that's definitely where I fit.
I would argue though that if you put even 2-3kgs of muscle on your frame you would certianly not look fat. If that muscle was in the right places (chest, shoulders, upper back, etc) you would look even less fat. It's all about perception. You don't notice that the guy with the big upper body has a little more fat around his waist because, well, he has a big upper body.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: fast does lie on February 07, 2013, 07:43:26 pm
6.5 wrist and 8.5 ankle isn't average, is definitely below average, which is good.  you don't want elephant legs.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on February 07, 2013, 08:38:24 pm
yeah for the record i did not mean GOMAD BRO!!!!!!!!!!

not sure what t0ddddddday means by my "advice to cut" -- maybe just mistyped. my advice was to stop cutting and to begin thinking about adding muscle. that can obviously be done the rippetoe way, but the rippetoe way is sub-optimal in this context as we have all discussed. for what it's worth i agree completely with t0ddday and i think we were saying the same thing. he just did so in greater depth and fewer references to jesus.

^ yeah sorry, mean your advice about bulking.  Agreed.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on February 07, 2013, 11:11:24 pm

Re lower back strength, you guys have convinced me. Im going to push my lower back strength up like crazy. My legs are weak but my back is even weaker. Squatting makes my legs a bit stronger sure. But nothing is making my back stronger which is a problem. If I want to be a good sprinter i'll def have to prioritise my lower back.

 Making your legs stronger will help your sprinting and athleticism around 200355459084458000.7 times more than worrying about your lower back.  Youve made great gains in athleticism so far doing what youve been doing, why start spinning your wheels now? 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LBSS on February 08, 2013, 12:15:20 am

Re lower back strength, you guys have convinced me. Im going to push my lower back strength up like crazy. My legs are weak but my back is even weaker. Squatting makes my legs a bit stronger sure. But nothing is making my back stronger which is a problem. If I want to be a good sprinter i'll def have to prioritise my lower back.

 Making your legs stronger will help your sprinting and athleticism around 200355459084458000.7 times more than worrying about your lower back.  Youve made great gains in athleticism so far doing what youve been doing, why start spinning your wheels now?

hey everyone, lance is still alive!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 08, 2013, 12:38:23 am
True Lance. I'll keep dancing with the girl who brought me to the ball. Thanks for reminding me. Btw do you think it's ok to keep cutting to 159? Or do you think I should stop now? I don't want to give up when i've come so close. I don't think I have long to go now.

edit. Thinking about it, there are only 3 weeks left in Feb. I can't lose much weight now anyway and 159 is out of the picture from around 165. At best I'll be in the low 160s at the end of Feb. So how about a compromise. I'll cut to say 163-162. And stop cutting there. But since I'm unhappy with my body composition, i'll believe T0dday that thru training I can continue to improve my body composition, or specifically that doing tempo work will improve body comp, I can continue to improve bodycomp even once i've stopped cutting come march. This way I'll be able to train better by getting off the caloric deficit and my body comp will improve thru training. Sort of a best of both worlds.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on February 08, 2013, 01:07:27 am
True Lance. I'll keep dancing with the girl who brought me to the ball. Thanks for reminding me. Btw do you think it's ok to keep cutting to 159? Or do you think I should stop now? I don't want to give up when i've come so close. I don't think I have long to go now.

edit. Thinking about it, there are only 3 weeks left in Feb. I can't lose much weight now anyway and 159 is out of the picture from around 165. At best I'll be in the low 160s at the end of Feb. So how about a compromise. I'll cut to say 163-162. And stop cutting there. But since I'm unhappy with my body composition, i'll believe T0dday that thru training I can continue to improve my body composition, or specifically that doing tempo work will improve body comp, I can continue to improve bodycomp even once i've stopped cutting come march. This way I'll be able to train better by getting off the caloric deficit and my body comp will improve thru training. Sort of a best of both worlds.

Yea, I agree with what hes saying, eat enough to get stronger, while staying athletic/fairly lean.   dont " bulk".  Good luck man keep killing it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #11/60
Post by: entropy on February 08, 2013, 01:10:01 pm
Training (Lower)
FS 2x90, 1x100, 3x104.5, 3Fx105.5
BS 3x90, 1x100, 5x95, 5x90
SVJx5, RVJx2
5x30m sprints (~4s per 30)

And that was it. Then 8 hours later when i'm driving home, I realised I had this weird thing going on in my right pec. It's a kind of searing pain. It scares me because last time I had this was when I tore my intercostals and I had to stop training completely for weeks before it healed. Back then I made it worse by training thru it. Hope this is nothing and it goes away but i'm going to be cautious. Bother.

Anyway the sprints were good. I've never been this close to breaking 4s. Which is remarkable because I haven't been sprinting for months and this was the first time. So hopefully once i'm done cutting and I work my sprinting harder i'll be under 4s.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #11/60
Post by: T0ddday on February 08, 2013, 07:07:04 pm
Training (Lower)
FS 2x90, 1x100, 3x104.5, 3Fx105.5
BS 3x90, 1x100, 5x95, 5x90
SVJx5, RVJx2
5x30m sprints (~4s per 30)

And that was it. Then 8 hours later when i'm driving home, I realised I had this weird thing going on in my right pec. It's a kind of searing pain. It scares me because last time I had this was when I tore my intercostals and I had to stop training completely for weeks before it healed. Back then I made it worse by training thru it. Hope this is nothing and it goes away but i'm going to be cautious. Bother.

Anyway the sprints were good. I've never been this close to breaking 4s. Which is remarkable because I haven't been sprinting for months and this was the first time. So hopefully once i'm done cutting and I work my sprinting harder i'll be under 4s.

Just wondering, what do you run 30m sprints?  That distance is almost immeasurable as far as hand-timing goes and thus really hard to gauge improvement.  It doesn't even let you hit top speed.  I doubt Usain Bolt could hit 4s for 5 reps without spikes. 

Why not just run 60m and 100m sprints.  They will allow you to measure your improvement with much less noise, allow you to work on accelerating to much faster speed, and have measurably good benefits for body competition, which you are concerned with...  I would be afraid an athlete training his self timed 30m is training moreso his ability to reflexively react to his stop-watch press than actually training his legs to get stronger...
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #11/60
Post by: entropy on February 09, 2013, 02:43:39 am
Just wondering, what do you run 30m sprints? 

Honestly I just saw other guys doing short sprints when I first started logging here and I thought I should try doing them too. They were doing 20-25m sprints I think, which are ever shorter. I guessed it was to do with the length of a basketball court (~25m) but I have no idea what the actual rationale is behind them. For that you'll have to ask the other guys here, hopefully they'll chime in. Another guess would be the 30m sprints test max acceleration since you try to go from rest to your top speed as quickly as possible? I don't know.

Quote
That distance is almost immeasurable as far as hand-timing goes and thus really hard to gauge improvement.  It doesn't even let you hit top speed.  I doubt Usain Bolt could hit 4s for 5 reps without spikes.

Interesting to hear that!  I went with 30m because it coincides perfectly with the length of the cricket pitch at the park, which allows the convenience to run the same exact distance each time. That's the only reason i'm doign 30s. I dont have any trouble measuring with my gymboss because I set it to count down to 0 then it beeps, I take off, and then it beeps again exactly 4s later. So I use that 2nd beep to see how close I came to the end of the 30m. If it beeps after I pass the 30m mark I know i've broken 4s. It hasn't happened yet though, and hearing how Usain would have so much trouble with it, maybe I never will either!

Quote
Why not just run 60m and 100m sprints.  They will allow you to measure your improvement with much less noise, allow you to work on accelerating to much faster speed, and have measurably good benefits for body competition, which you are concerned with...  I would be afraid an athlete training his self timed 30m is training moreso his ability to reflexively react to his stop-watch press than actually training his legs to get stronger...

Sure. I'm happy to run 60m instead. Will have to mark it out though but that's ok, i'll take the measuring tape next time. I dont think I can run 100m at full speed yet, i run into endurance issues but i'll switch over to 60m first and see how that goes. Thanks!
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 09, 2013, 09:41:34 am
I didn't take any chances last night and I taped up my chest before bed just in case I had torn something. It meant I could only sleep upright because leaning to the side would pull the tape apart which would cause pain. Now i'm not sure if the discomfort i'm feeling is because i've taped my chest, or because i've torn/strained an intercostal/pec.

I still have NO idea how I picked up the injury. I woke up fine so it must have been during training. All I did was squats, jumps and sprints. Any of those could have caused it. But it didn't manifest itself until hours later when I realised I had hurt myself.

Tomorrow is bball training, so i'll try to take it easy. I don't lift til tuesday anyway so hopefully by then it's all healed up. But what i'll do on tuesday is take off the tape and see if it feels good, and if it does, then i'll train.

Great deal of quad soreness after teh sprints. It's been ages since i've had these.

Didn't deal well with the injury scare, I kinda binged today. Ate some m&ms and bag of crisps. I hate myself .. lol.

Anyway, gonna try get some rest.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 10, 2013, 06:30:07 am
Well i've def injured myself. I forced myself to trian through it because A). its my team and B). if i dont play how can i expect others to play? Went by the after hours clinic after the game but they wanted $70 to see the GP. Fuck that. I told them I didn't need to see a doctor just a nurse to bandage my chest but they don't allow that. So went by the pharmacy and picked up some stuff. Will tape myself up and then rest all week. Aint nobody got time for this injury - it's a bitch to heal and last time I had to rest completely for weeks before it healed up. FML. Just when I needed to turn training up to 11 I have to pull back because of this!

Oh forgot to mention, I only attempted 1 dunk today. No warmups, landed a nasty one hand SVJ. Then I didn't try dunking again because I didn't wanna worsen my intercostal injury.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LanceSTS on February 11, 2013, 04:12:58 am
 I would be VERY careful bench pressing or doing pull ups if youre scheduled to, might even skip them for a week or so.

 The jumps can cause this type of thing easily if you are using a powerful arm swing, and the tissue is tight from prior pressing.  Lots of soft tissue work with a softball, pnf stretching, and use overhead press and rows/hor. pulls instead of vertical pulls and bench for a while.

 You can still do jumps only dont use the arm swing for a while. Careful man, once you tear the pectorals good, and its most likely the actual muscle tissue and not the tendon in your case (i.e. no anabolic usage= tear the muscle tissue, + anabolics=tear the pec tendon), its a very recurring problem.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on February 11, 2013, 11:23:27 am
^Why I don't bench more than 2 months out of the year.  Pec tears are terrible and crop up at weird times once you get them.

The best way to rid yourself of the endurance issues you have during the 100m is by doing 100m's.  Everyone has endurance issues during 100m.  It's part of running 100m

I didn't realize you were training in a park, I thought you were on a track training the competitive sprints.   30m sprints will largely test your reaction and initial part of your acceleration.  But since reacting to your watch doesn't translate too well to the track then they really only test the initial part of your acceleration phase.  I don't favor them because athletes tend to develop bad habits when training only for the 40 yard.   They were popularized from American football, but if you watch american football you would see the guys who kept track up in college (Jacoby Jones and Trindon Holiday) outrunning everyone else in the playoffs and DeAnthony (who trained with our club in LA!) flying by everyone at Oregon.

Track will get you faster to 20m, 30m, 40m.... Whatever meters.   Running only 30m is like only doing squat singles.   The shorter you test yourself in the more you will be training your ability to cheat slightly and less your ability to actually get faster.

Since you have body composition goals I would strongly suggest you run longer tempo.  Running 30m or even 60m isn't going to lean you out much.  But running 150m+ repeatedly will get rid of all the fat on your body. 
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 13, 2013, 10:20:50 am
I hear you lance, i'll stay away from the chinups & presses. Idgaf about that stuff, the thing which is killing me is knowing my legs will get weak and deconditioned while im injured. I dont know when it's safe to jump back in into training. It will be a week since I last squatted this coming friday (its wed night now). I'm going to try get in a light workout on friday, if it's pain free, i'll add a bit of weight. Then rest the weekend. Hopefully by monday i'll be good to train normally.

So my plan is to rest thurs, light front squats friday. Then rest the weekend. Have bball training this weekend but ill not be participating this week.

I guess after training hard for the last 12 months or so, this is the first week off i've had. and my knees are happy everything feels good and rested. It might even do me good. I hope I dont get too fat though from being inactive. Just this bitch off an injury is hard to train around, everything bothers it, anything physical and it hurts to breathe etc. I can train around it, it just means it wont then heal.

Anyway, lets see how it goes. Today it felt real good. Yesterday was bad, pain thruout the day. If only I had rested the weekend i bet i'd be all healed up by now. Resuming the diet tomorrow also.

Todday i'm sold, i'll do longer sprints. Thanks for the advice appreciate it.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: T0ddday on February 13, 2013, 01:28:41 pm

I guess after training hard for the last 12 months or so, this is the first week off i've had. and my knees are happy everything feels good and rested. It might even do me good. I hope I dont get too fat though from being inactive.

IMO this is the hardest part about dieting/maintaining leanness.  Like I have been stressing, with proper tempo work and high-workout capacity you can become/maintain very lean without restricting calories much.

Additionally, it's not that hard to eat clean when you running quick times on the track, throwing up big weights, and looking great.  If you run a couple season PR's in the morning and then get in the weight room and kill some squats that afternoon, when you go out with your girl that night it only makes sense to say "I'll take the grilled Salmon".   Poor quality food doesn't even seem right for the well oiled machine you are.

The problem is when the activity falls off.  Those little injuries/or life/work events where you don't/can't train for a week.  You forget that you are the pinnacle of fitness and ice-cream doesn't sound horrible anymore.  Without the positive feedback of training and improving/maintaining excellent body composition it becomes easier and easier to fall off the wagon...   Then a two week injury gets accompanied by a few lbs of fat gain which causes some more injuries and your season goes...

Don't let this happen!  The hardest thing is when your inactive you actually should eat CLEANER than when you are training heavily.  If you can master this you will be healthy for the rest of your life.   There will be times we can't train whether life or injury, and as you get older dealing with these times correctly is probably more important than your actual training.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: LoopieMclooperson on February 14, 2013, 12:17:12 am

I guess after training hard for the last 12 months or so, this is the first week off i've had. and my knees are happy everything feels good and rested. It might even do me good. I hope I dont get too fat though from being inactive.

IMO this is the hardest part about dieting/maintaining leanness.  Like I have been stressing, with proper tempo work and high-workout capacity you can become/maintain very lean without restricting calories much.

Additionally, it's not that hard to eat clean when you running quick times on the track, throwing up big weights, and looking great.  If you run a couple season PR's in the morning and then get in the weight room and kill some squats that afternoon, when you go out with your girl that night it only makes sense to say "I'll take the grilled Salmon".   Poor quality food doesn't even seem right for the well oiled machine you are.

The problem is when the activity falls off.  Those little injuries/or life/work events where you don't/can't train for a week.  You forget that you are the pinnacle of fitness and ice-cream doesn't sound horrible anymore.  Without the positive feedback of training and improving/maintaining excellent body composition it becomes easier and easier to fall off the wagon...   Then a two week injury gets accompanied by a few lbs of fat gain which causes some more injuries and your season goes...

Don't let this happen!  The hardest thing is when your inactive you actually should eat CLEANER than when you are training heavily.  If you can master this you will be healthy for the rest of your life.   There will be times we can't train whether life or injury, and as you get older dealing with these times correctly is probably more important than your actual training.

Preach it brother! This is the practical wisdom I need more of day to day.  :highfive:
Title: Re: chasing athleticism
Post by: entropy on February 14, 2013, 03:59:14 am
Don't let this happen!  The hardest thing is when your inactive you actually should eat CLEANER than when you are training heavily.  If you can master this you will be healthy for the rest of your life.   There will be times we can't train whether life or injury, and as you get older dealing with these times correctly is probably more important than your actual training.

Damn, yea better avoid that.

I feel good today. I might do some very light sets with front squats, i did 6x20 just now and it felt ok. No discomfort. I think front squats might be my best friend now. Because I remember last time I got this injury, I couldnt backsquat (it stretches out the pecs). Lets see, will add a bit of weight and see how it goes.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- Day #18/60
Post by: entropy on February 15, 2013, 08:03:03 am
Training
FS 1x90, 1x95, 1x100, 1x105, 5Fx97.5, 3x95, 5Fx92.5, 1x90
sprints 3x150m (best time 24:14),  5x60m (~8s)

FS notes:
Well was very conservative being in the midst of injury and all. But the signs are good, front squatting seems to be ok wrt the injury. But obviously i've gotten weaker in the 7 days since it happened. I couldn't for the life of me rep out 5 reps, failing the 5th on two occasions. My plan was to get a heavy topset of 5 and then do volume with a lower weight.

Still, it will come back to me. Especially now that i'm training FS exclusively.

Sprinting notes:
Used toddays advice. Started with some longer sprints - felt good, 24s ish was my best time. Then tried 60m sprints. These were interesting: I was going so fast around 30m that I couldn't control my body very well. I think it shows up a weakness in my lower back? And perhaps lack of leg stiffness? Well whatever the case, I guess i'll be improving those things by doing these sprints regularly. So that's exciting.

And today was the first day since I injured myself that i'm eating like an athlete. I wasn't going to diet while injured obviously since that would make healing difficult.

Now I'm going to do some calf raises and maybe, do some short low temp sprints, so long as they don't bother my injury i'll ramp up, otherwise i'll come home.
Title: Re: chasing athleticism -- injury updates
Post by: entropy on February 15, 2013, 10:28:02 am
Update on injury:

Good training session today after the week off for healing.

Thank you so much Lance for the guidance as usual, you're a legend. I'm so fortunate that you advised me to watch the upper body work. Left to my own devices i definitely would have done some upper work by now and disturbed healing. But front squatting is fine, so i'll be focusing even more on them than I usually do. Want to end feb sub 75kg while squatting 105 or more for 5 reps.

Todday: Longer sprints were awesome. I felt better and better each one I did. So much so, it feels like i'm perfectly healed now! But I will still avoid upper work til next week. And I didn't dare do any jumps or shooting. I figure I'll make sure i'm fully healed first. It shouldn't take too long. But yea i'm all in with T0dday's plan of doing longer sprints to bridge my body comp & athleticism gap. I'm a little skeptical to start with because everything I know about this bodycomp stuff comes from Kyle Macdowell and he's never really talked up track work for aesthetics. He actually forbids sprints because  he says it means you have shitty leg sessions in the gym. But i'll give it a try anyway.

Also quick shotout to coges, thanks for putting me o