Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 309721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11623
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +6423
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1965 on: July 08, 2014, 09:27:39 am »
+2
Do you think that fasting is more effective for fat loss than regular reduced caloric value meals?
I mean, if you are going to intake the same amount of kcals one day, say 1500, why fast? I would expect regular meals that keep you in an anabolic state more time to be better.
Is there a mechanism i am not aware of that burns more fat? Or is fasting just a way to be sure you got a bigger daily caloric deficit?
LBSS, what's your view on this?

intermittent fasting has a fair amount of published and anecdotal evidence behind it. 23 hours is a lot longer than is normally recommended, but it's not like that's his normal schedule. the importance of meal timing is greatly overrated in broscience. as long as protein intake is adequate and overall caloric intake is adequate, entropy's fine.

for one thing, i know a lot of people really enjoy the fact that on IF, you can still eat big, satisfying meals. sure, you don't eat the rest of the day, but twice a day you get to chow down. feels less like starving yourself, for some people.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Respect: +2910
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1966 on: July 08, 2014, 11:04:00 am »
0
LBSS, that's what i thought. It seemed to me more like a method. In the same lines of 'drink a ton of water before lunch so you won't be so hungry'. I dont get it because although i love food and eating big, i can be very consistent with any diet plan, whatever it is, fasting, many small meals, force-feeding, no prob. But i understand many people are not like that so they need their methods.
Entropy, i don't really fall for the single digits story bro, sorry. Going from 15 to 14% or from 10 to 9%, I believe that frequent meals in whatever quantities to meet your daily caloric plan is the optimal way, because of the much greater time of the day that you stay on anabolic state.
But it doesn't mean fasting doesn't work. If it is more convenient for you, i am with you. I mean if without fasting you may slip and eat more, or it is too much trouble to track nutrients and count meals and have meals too, or for whatever reasons you feel better when fasting, then you are right to choose it. In my eyes it is a ( slightly? ) less effective fat loss method but for many people it may be much more convenient and easy to keep at, so in the end they will get better results.
Carry on :D
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:05:55 am by vag »
woot

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1967 on: July 08, 2014, 11:11:10 am »
+2
The stubborn fat thing is legit. It increases blood flow to stubborn fat cells or something like that. Also boosts growth hormone. It's not as simple as more frequency, more anabolic.

The main benefit for me of fasting, like i did today, close to 24hrs (like 10 mins short lol) is that i can eat most of my carbs and foods before bed and get a good night sleep. If i eat half of my food in the morning, by the time i'm in bed, my body has burned off the dinner, and im lying there sleepless and hungry as fuck. So hard to fall asleep hungry, and when you do fall asleep, it's not as deep, so the slihgtly thing will wake me up and then im hungry and sleeplessl tired going into the next day.

During the day hunger is no problem you can always use caffeine (as in ECA) or if E is banned in your country as it is in mine there are alternatives (yohimbe and another one which i actually use as of today). boom hunger gone, focus and energy plentiful. At night though, you can't use stimulants for obvious reasons, so when you're in bed, having food in your gut to keep your body working nicely is a good thing

The fasting experience story for me is still being written. If i can get lean quickly as im planning to (in a total of like 2-3 weeks off a bulk being quite fat) then i'll super happy!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:45:11 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11623
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +6423
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1968 on: July 08, 2014, 11:16:09 am »
0
Entropy, i don't really fall for the single digits story bro, sorry. Going from 15 to 14% or from 10 to 9%, I believe that frequent meals in whatever quantities to meet your daily caloric plan is the optimal way, because of the much greater time of the day that you stay on anabolic state.

this is broscience of the purest, highest grade.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Respect: +2910
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1969 on: July 08, 2014, 11:52:07 am »
0
The stubborn fat thing is legit. It increases blood flow to stubborn fat cells or something like that. Also boosts growth hormone. It's not as simple as more frequency, more anabolic.

Ah, that's what i was asking in my first post.
now it is a mechanism again, not a method. I am very interested, both about stubborn fat and even more about the GH factor. I will try to read more to it.

Entropy, i don't really fall for the single digits story bro, sorry. Going from 15 to 14% or from 10 to 9%, I believe that frequent meals in whatever quantities to meet your daily caloric plan is the optimal way, because of the much greater time of the day that you stay on anabolic state.

this is broscience of the purest, highest grade.

It is??? WTF, you are destroying my perception about diet/nutrition.
Maybe i did not elaborate enough, by 'whatever quantities to meet your caloric plans' i meant your pre-specified daily diet plan divided ( not necessarily equally ) in meals, not random calories and nutrients. So, if you were to eat 1500 kcals with 150g protein ( random example, also predetermined fats and carbs but too bored to include them in the example ), i thought that doing three 500kcal-50g meals would be anabolic-wise better than fast and eat them in one. Could be 800-60 / 350-30 / 350-60, no big fuss. But sure better than one-off. I also know that there is too much hype around the meals number, e.g. 4 to 6 meals is no real difference, but 2 to 4 is. I know that anabolic/catabolic is not a time switch, you were not 100% anabolic for 2 hours and 59 minutes and turned 100% catabolic at 3 hours and 1 minute. But i thought the whole thing works like that, the more time passes from your last meal , the more the percentage switches from anabolic to catavolic state, that well-known curve, you know it, too bored to post it. Is that a myth???
woot

LBSS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11623
  • plugging away...
  • Respect: +6423
    • View Profile
    • Email
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: long very easy run 80+ mins @ 5:40+ (14+ km)
monday: strength/cross training
tuesday: extensive tempo (7 km) OR fartlek (mostly easy pace with mix of strides, hills, long tempo) 45 mins (8+ km)
wednesday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km)
thursday: easy run 60+ mins @ 5:20-5:30 (11+ km), strength/cross-training
friday: rest
saturday: short tempo 6-8x500 @ sub-4:00 (7 km)

strength would be:
- hops 2x10
- box jumps or ME SVJ 2x5
- squats 3x6-8 or weighted BSS/lunges 3x10/leg
- RDL/hypers 2x10-12 or SLRDL 2x10-12/leg
- upper push myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- upper pull myo-reps or sets to technical failure
- leg raises, holds, pallof presses

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Respect: +2910
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1971 on: July 08, 2014, 12:42:11 pm »
0
Enlightening.
woot

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W10D3
« Reply #1972 on: July 09, 2014, 02:48:23 am »
0
BW: 84.4kg /186lb

6 days to go..

Waist is down to ~34.0" .. i get "lean" around 33.0" i think? i cant remember wud have to look it up when i dieted down to <75kg/165lb. Either way have a while to go yet (in terms of waist circumference not bodyweight lol)

Might do a 24hr fast again today, im really pleased with how fresh i feel today even though i did sprints for the first time yesterday, ive got no crippling doms, none in hams, quads or glutes. I can't explain that shit but im putting it down to the way i ate my whole daily intake postworkout fast. 

Training
FBS 1x125
BS 1x132.5
OHP 5x60, 5x4x60

FBS 1x127.5
BS 1x130, 3x122.5, 2x5x120
AbPD 3x15
CND ~ 18 minutes running (with breaks lol), 26:30mins total time spent on TM.

Squat notes:
Gave the 2-a-day squat thing another chance. I think i picked the right weight for fs/bs singles but the last bs single felt like a 1rm so i prob erred there. My lower back is acting weird though, so that might have something to do with it too, idk what's going on with it.

decided to cut fast short at 19hrs have a meal and i'll train later tonight.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 11:26:15 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1973 on: July 09, 2014, 06:51:51 am »
0
Enlightening.

also check out this -
http://www.leangains.com/2010/06/intermittent-fasting-and-stubborn-body.html

not really sure im close to stubborn fat range but whatever
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

vag

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5112
  • Respect: +2910
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #1974 on: July 09, 2014, 10:25:49 am »
0
Interesting too. I doubt i will ever reach the stubborn fat stage as he describes it though (four-and-a-half-pack abs). Most of what he says applies for other fat ranges anyway.
IF is a totally different world from the one i thought it was, i am glad i asked.
woot

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W10D4
« Reply #1975 on: July 10, 2014, 01:23:00 am »
0
BW: 83.7kg / 184.53lb

Scale drops again. Dont feel quite as lean as i'd like yet though :( Im gonna do some fasted treadmill walking (3x20min sessions around caffeine doses), even though i was planning on having a rest day.

update. fasted 20 hrs, did 2 fasted treadmill sessions of about 2.4km total, about 42.5mins long. And skipping rope 'bout 200 skips.

Ate 1 meal at the end of the day. 3 eggs, 2 slices wholmeal bread, a baked chicken breast, 400mL lowfat milk + 1.5scoop whey, 4x1.5g fish oil, 2xmulti vitamins, cup of cauliflower, 1tbspoon of psyllium husk powder. That's the lot. But it's only 8pm and im prob gonna get real hungry again tonight :( i couldn't wait any longer tho hunger was too much lol.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 08:45:22 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W10D5
« Reply #1976 on: July 11, 2014, 03:20:17 am »
0
BW: 83.7kg / 184.53lb

Have fasted: 21 hours so far. (will update this til my first meal..).

Also going to try 3 doses of caffeine (200mg) in the day spaced by 3 hours or so. This is not a great idea but i kinda messed up taking the first dose late (12pm). Should take it earlier to space them out by like 4-5 hours instead.

The good news is i'm going to do a carb refeed tonight, so hopefully i'll be able to get a good night of sleep for a change.

Planned Training:
Session #1             Session #2             Session #3             
Fasted TMBPSquats (II)
Squats (I)Chinups (I)Dunks
Fasted TMChinups (II)
Conditioning
Training:
Session #1        Session #2        Session #3
FBS 1x122.5BP 3x87.5, 2x88.5
WCU 1x95
FBS 1x125
FS 0Fx132.5
BS 1x132.5, 5x120, 4Fx122.5, 5x120
WCU 2x106.7, 5x96.7, 5x94.5,
       2x5x92.5, 5x91.5, 5x90
Dunking - 3x5 ~ 20 total
Sprint Intervals - 5x(20s on, 25s off)

Squat notes:
I did 2 sets less than i've been doing in the first (fasted) squat session, saving some in the tank, so to speak. Maybe this will help me do better in the 2nd session. So far 2nd sessions have been just awful.

After another terrible 2nd squat session i'm calling an end to this sorry experiment. Worst idea i've ever tried. Never again.

Upper body notes:
Had the idea to try doing a primer chinup session. Wasnt sure whether to attempt a last single of +15kg, but in the end I decided against it in case it detracted from tonights volume chins.

Day went well, exhausting though. Too much training. I almost did a running session on the treadmill before bed but decided against it. Carb reload was quite clean. I ate 2 wholemeal bread sandwiches consisting of a baked chicken breast i shredded up and topped with a bit of bbq sauce. After that i had 400mL of lowfat milk with a scoop of whey. Finally 4 slices of homemade vegetarian pizza. That's the lot. Not a huge carb refeed by any means, but i think it's ok since i'll do another one monday.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 12:47:46 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W10D6
« Reply #1977 on: July 12, 2014, 12:53:06 am »
0
BW: 84.1kg / 185.41lb

Post refeed weight goes up! I think i'm leaner than the scale or the mirror shows but im due for a whoosh sometime. If only i had more time lol. Oh well. Will try to make the best of the next 3 days.

I love how good you feel the day after a refeed. rested, fresh, no soreness. it's like the body becomes that much more efficient at recovery that a single big meal can make undo a week long tiredness and aches and pains. Good stuff.

Today i'll wait til my 2nd or so dose of caffeine/syn and then i'll do fasted TM. And i want to do a 20 min jog as well. So we'll try to get 60 minutes total on teh treadmill. Is that too much? I need a day off, been training daily this week! Either take today off or tmr. I think i'd rather take tmr off than today, i feel great today lol .. wud be a shame to waste it ;)

Training
CND ~ TM Jog.

CND ~ shopping (~1hr)

CND ~ TM walk (20 mins, 1.5km)
CND ~100 skips
AbPD 3x20

Conditioning notes:
First session was fasted running 2km in about 17 mins. Covered a total of 2.5km overall.

2nd and 3rd sessions will be fasted walks of about 20mins each around caffeine doses.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 08:14:15 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W10D7
« Reply #1978 on: July 12, 2014, 10:32:53 pm »
0
BW:83.5kg/184.09lb

Lost a pound, looking a lot leaner but not lean enough. I need a rest day, so this will have to be it. But i'll still try to do some fasted walking through the day. Aiming to fast about 22-23 hours today, or around there abouts.

It's funny, if you asked me where i'd need to weigh to be lean, i wuda guessed 82.5kg. Now that's starting to look pretty reasonable since at 83.5kg i'm not quite there but I imagine losing a kilo should get me close to single digit bodyfat. Though that's not really remarkable since one always thinks he's one kilo away from being lean. #Fatproblems.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 10:36:19 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1684
  • b00m!
  • Respect: +276
    • View Profile
chasing athleticism -- W1D1
« Reply #1979 on: July 14, 2014, 12:34:09 am »
+1
BW: 82.6kg / 182.1lb

Fasted Duration: 24+hr


(for reference the left most point is 195lb and today's is of course 182)

lol so I got through my pre-holiday cut intact, i can't believe i've dropped ~6kg/13lb in just under 3 weeks. This time though, i held on to my muscle and strength for the most part, even building my upper body (which admittedly i had grossly neglected).

the bad news is that i'm still not lean enough :( i prob need to diet another week or so lol. we'll see how it goes.

Training
FS 1x125, 1x130
BS 1x120, 1x127.5, 1x132.5, 0Fx137.5, 1x135B, 1x137.5B, 5x120, 5x117.5, 5x115
BP 3x5x80
CND - Sprint Ints - 6x(25s on, 23s off)
AbCrunch - 15x75kg (PR; lol, these fucks are so easy for me, i need a better ab exercise and yet i know of none that work as well as these for blowing up abz)
AbPD - 2x20x37.5kg

Squat notes:
I decided to do just one squat session, which turned out to be fasted as it happens, so i had my work cut out for me. I managed a 130 fs which was a ME effort. I wanted a 137.5kg bs, though i kinda knew i was only good for 135, went for it and of course failed it. Used a belt to do shitty reps of 135 and 137.5 in consolation.

Upper notes:
Omg, that BP was deathly hard, all RPE 10 sets :o
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 08:19:27 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat