Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 924124 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4005 on: October 12, 2017, 01:13:54 am »
+1
How do you like back extensions as a low back supplement? do you do pure back bends so it isolates low back or some hip hinge too for general p-chain? I was trying out good mornings and stiff leg dl's but like neither one for low back

I think they're essential (for me). I need a great deal of surplus back strength to save the squat (esp the last rep/s of a limit set). The only hitch was i was stuck on 60kg for like 6-9 months b/c i couldnt use any more weight on these (2x25kg plates and 10kg vest). Now ive got the ezcurl setup, i can load it indefinitely. Honestly need to get it to around ~120kg before i think i have enough surplus back strength for my squat goals. They hit everything in the PC, glutes, hamstrings and erectors. When i did them with plates to the chest i even fatigued upper back but ezcurl is way better. I have a video of my latest set. 2nd week using the ezcurl. Going to be conservative taking 5kg jumps from here but i dont think i will get stuck for a while doing 12s. Eventually will see reps lowered to around 5 but keep progressing up to 120kg.

My weak points isn't erectors/PC - it's 1a. quads and 1b. abs. I dont train abs because ab fatigue kills the next important workout :( But eventually i need to. The good news is my abs grow so QUICKLY once i add abwork, like within 10 days they will blow up. I just can't fit them in yet. Heavy days are already too daunting because fo the amount of work i do. And volume days are too long as it is. Unfortunately i can't do anythign about quads .. still searching for that fix.

I must say one good thing about doing depth jumps is that it gives you a program for jumping instead of freestyling random rvjs and getting frustrated because your obese whale ass can't touch some distant dreamy target like 36". So im happy to just rock up do my 3x5s and move on. If it works it works, if it doesn't at least it won't affect my motivation.

How would you assess if the depth jump program is working?

For my purposes im still trying to get my technique right. Working on the bits of pieces @adarqui has pointed out (earlier arm swing, stiff landing ankles etc). When ive got that down and jumps feel solid i'll be happy. I won't know if it's working until later down the line when it's time to test my jump. Btw im running out of time to get in shape with 170 days left, this is the most unfit ive been having not played ball all year. I decided to focus on strength and took a break from playing ball in the winter.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
171
« Reply #4006 on: October 12, 2017, 01:15:14 am »
0
BW: 87.7kg
Activity:
Misc:
Diet Compliance: 6/6

Im too fat to get complete rest days. Will try to get 10 activity but it's ok if i don't get it.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

Leonel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Respect: +608
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4007 on: October 12, 2017, 04:56:53 am »
0
There's no possible way that you are doing RDL's with 215kg for 8 reps and strict form. Otherwise you would be deadlifting at least 250kg or possibly more. I did 170kg for 5 reps on my top set on RDL's last week and I'm able to deadlift 200-210kg or so. Your numbers don't add up.
Even holding 215kg without straps and just hook grip for 8 reps is hard to imagine. Your grip strength must be out of this world.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:58:45 am by Leonel »

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4008 on: October 12, 2017, 05:20:04 am »
0
I did 8x170kg back in August..
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

AGC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1622
  • Respect: +1194
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4009 on: October 12, 2017, 08:46:21 am »
+1
^ Come on, that was not neg-worthy. Not the worst RDL form I've ever seen by a long shot. I posted this at the time he put that up originally, could definitely use more depth for full hamstring development, but it's still moving a lot of weight with a straight back and good hip drive.

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4010 on: October 12, 2017, 01:19:55 pm »
+1
^ Come on, that was not neg-worthy. Not the worst RDL form I've ever seen by a long shot. I posted this at the time he put that up originally, could definitely use more depth for full hamstring development, but it's still moving a lot of weight with a straight back and good hip drive.

not worth getting turnt up about an assistance exercise. coach says i shud keep progressing it up til 230kg and then my grip shud be decent enough to get quality worksets in with 170-180kg with plenty of ROM. That's the hardest part of this lift and it's prob the reason why ppl dont do them heavier b/c they can't hold on to the bar thru the set without losing control. for what it's worth the REASON i do RDLs has nothing to do wiht hams. I do it for a heavy pull for back work. it does get upper back pretty sore which i like. Plenty of hamstring work already not including squats, back extensions and sprints do a decent job. My squat is already pretty PC dominant  (unfortunately) and i do a ton of those.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4011 on: October 12, 2017, 02:15:58 pm »
+2
it's definitely more of a "half RDL", similar to how we have half squats. It could have it's place, and people are going to respond to lifts like this differently, so if it helps/feels like it's working, by all means I say go for it.

JUST MAKE SURE you take all of the ego out of it.. don't get caught up in the weight numbers for partial rom lifts like that, especially if the bar can get away from your body. If you feel anything weird in your historically "tweakable" back, kill the ego with fire and lower the weight. AELS. So all i'm saying here is, just pay more attention to safety with a lift like this, just like you would with a quarter squat for example.

you have been riding a beast mode wave for quite a while now, great stuff.

peace!!

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
170
« Reply #4012 on: October 13, 2017, 02:47:58 am »
+1
BW: 87.6kg
Activity:
Misc:
Diet Compliance: 7/7

Upper and recovery lower today.

Recovery BS 2x6x107.5(+2.5kg)
BP 3x5x85
Dips 3x5x113.7(PR; +23kg, 10kg vest, 12kg kb, 1kg chain), 8x101(PR; just vest), 2x10xBW(PR)
Curls 3x5x47.5(PR)
Jump rope (good)
DBIBP 12x17.5

Notes:
I did a fair bit of upper body volume knowing it's probably the last time i do that for a while. Im gna cut volume down on upper body across the board for the remaining 3 (8 day) weeks from sunday. Just focusing on getting squats to the 140kg volume milestone. It's going to get really hard and i can't afford to fail because i used my recovery resources on something else.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:02:00 pm by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
169
« Reply #4013 on: October 14, 2017, 03:39:48 am »
0
BW: 88.2kg
Activity:
Misc:
Diet Compliance: 8/8

Rest rest
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

Leonel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 727
  • Respect: +608
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4014 on: October 14, 2017, 01:54:07 pm »
+1
^ Come on, that was not neg-worthy. Not the worst RDL form I've ever seen by a long shot. I posted this at the time he put that up originally, could definitely use more depth for full hamstring development, but it's still moving a lot of weight with a straight back and good hip drive.

not worth getting turnt up about an assistance exercise. coach says i shud keep progressing it up til 230kg and then my grip shud be decent enough to get quality worksets in with 170-180kg with plenty of ROM. That's the hardest part of this lift and it's prob the reason why ppl dont do them heavier b/c they can't hold on to the bar thru the set without losing control. for what it's worth the REASON i do RDLs has nothing to do wiht hams. I do it for a heavy pull for back work. it does get upper back pretty sore which i like. Plenty of hamstring work already not including squats, back extensions and sprints do a decent job. My squat is already pretty PC dominant  (unfortunately) and i do a ton of those.

Fair enough.. I mean there is certainly a place for partial rom exercises and variations in training and if you feel like you benefit more from doing them that way that's fine. Sorry if I came across like a total db. In my opinion it's just a bit misleading if you list them as RDL's and then you see this huge amount of weight and it somehow doesn't make that much sense. Would still be interesting to see how much you can do on a normal conventional deadlift though. It seems like you really are very p-chain dominant. Keep up the awesome progress!

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4015 on: October 15, 2017, 09:43:23 am »
0
^ Come on, that was not neg-worthy. Not the worst RDL form I've ever seen by a long shot. I posted this at the time he put that up originally, could definitely use more depth for full hamstring development, but it's still moving a lot of weight with a straight back and good hip drive.

not worth getting turnt up about an assistance exercise. coach says i shud keep progressing it up til 230kg and then my grip shud be decent enough to get quality worksets in with 170-180kg with plenty of ROM. That's the hardest part of this lift and it's prob the reason why ppl dont do them heavier b/c they can't hold on to the bar thru the set without losing control. for what it's worth the REASON i do RDLs has nothing to do wiht hams. I do it for a heavy pull for back work. it does get upper back pretty sore which i like. Plenty of hamstring work already not including squats, back extensions and sprints do a decent job. My squat is already pretty PC dominant  (unfortunately) and i do a ton of those.

Fair enough.. I mean there is certainly a place for partial rom exercises and variations in training and if you feel like you benefit more from doing them that way that's fine. Sorry if I came across like a total db. In my opinion it's just a bit misleading if you list them as RDL's and then you see this huge amount of weight and it somehow doesn't make that much sense. Would still be interesting to see how much you can do on a normal conventional deadlift though. It seems like you really are very p-chain dominant. Keep up the awesome progress!

hey thanks appreciate the looking out. let's put the curiousity out the way, i cant deadlift for shit. when i do the usual oly stretch (bar over knees pushing down) i struggle to lift the 90-100kg off pins to put on my knees. it feels hard/heavy even tho it's super light. I probably could be good at deadlifting due to my long arms if i accept rounding my back but pulling off the floor always fucks up my back badly and i just avoid doing the lift completely. Tarpbar might be a workaround -- however -- i stalled early on those at around 105kg and that's just a glimpse into my messed up training situation. I can obviously pull a lot more than 105kg, when i started off doing them i started with 120kg (2 reds per side) and while it was super easy for me,  i realised i wasnt pulling with a flat back and reset back to 70kg before stalling at 105kg, cant break it off the ground cos my quads are not just weak they're embarassingly weak. squats dont help either unfortunately. i gambled way hard on squats and the payoff hasnt come at least for leg strength.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
168
« Reply #4016 on: October 15, 2017, 09:44:29 am »
+5
BW: 87.9kg
Activity: 12
Misc:
Diet Compliance: 9/9

BS 10x5x132.5(PR)
Olympic BS 10x5x122.5(PR)

Notes:
Well that was fun. Ha. Gna go back for 2nd sesh in a bit. update. 2nd sesh was good. First set was brutal but the magic thing about volume is the body works super hard to figure out how to get thru the workout without dying through neural grooving. Subseuqently I find form fixes itself (counter to the usual claim about 'ingraining bad form' the opposite happens, you just find things getting more and more efficient as you go thru the workout). Additionally I found this week unlike the last week when i did olympic squats for the first time that my spine, abs and knees weren't taking such a severe beating -- so hopefully that means my organism is adapted and now stronger from both squat variants.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 05:01:22 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
167
« Reply #4017 on: October 16, 2017, 04:51:11 am »
+1
BW: 87.7kg
Activity: 7
Misc: Glutes, calves(!), vmos, ..
Diet Compliance: 10/10

Rest
« Last Edit: October 16, 2017, 12:25:03 pm by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

adarqui

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34034
  • who run it.
  • Respect: +9110
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 168
« Reply #4018 on: October 16, 2017, 10:23:28 am »
+1
BW: 87.9kg
Activity: 12
Misc:
Diet Compliance: 9/9

BS 10x5x132.5(PR)
Olympic BS 10x5x122.5(PR)

Notes:
Well that was fun. Ha. Gna go back for 2nd sesh in a bit. update. 2nd sesh was good. First set was brutal but the magic thing about volume is the body works super hard to figure out how to get thru the workout without dying through neural grooving. Subseuqently I find form fixes itself (counter to the usual claim about 'ingraining bad form' the opposite happens, you just find things getting more and more efficient as you go thru the workout). Additionally I found this week unlike the last week when i did olympic squats for the first time that my spine, abs and knees weren't taking such a severe beating -- so hopefully that means my organism is adapted and now stronger from both squat variants.

yeah exactly about the form .. sure some manual override cues can really help, but in general, the body wants to make things the easiest/more efficient possible for itself. I personally like the natural adjustments the nervous system makes in these situations.

that's pretty awesome about how you felt.. that kind of work you're putting in signals to your body that hey, the environment around me has really changed, and it's not getting easier, so adapt.

peace!!

maxent

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2830
  • Respect: +2114
    • View Profile
166
« Reply #4019 on: October 17, 2017, 05:17:47 am »
0
BW: 87.9kg
Activity:
Misc: hams and adductors
Diet Compliance: 11/11

Upper training and lower recovery tonight.

Recovery BS 6x2x107.5
OHP 6x5x60(PR)
Chinup 3x110.5(PR; 8kg kettle + 10kg vest + chain), 3x105(vest + 2.5kg), 3x102(vest), 2x8xBW(91ish kg), 3x5xBW
Shoulder press machine 3x10x30 (PR; +10kg from last time)
Jump rope
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 11:21:20 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template