Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 923524 times)

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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4635 on: February 17, 2019, 10:37:51 pm »
0
Bodyweight(AM): 88.4kg (18 Feb)
Diet compliance: 14/14 days
Daily Squat: 93/93 days
Daily OHP: 16/16 days
Daily Cardio: 6/14 days
Daily Act: 6.5
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x155
   OHP 8x40, DBOHP 5x27.5
   Dips 8xBW
   Chinup 6xBW   

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • Right well .. i think time to do that final reset. Im considering going down to  12x132.5kg PR today and then progress up to 150kg. Not sure if i'll be able to get 12 though, but let's see. I just need a couple of reps reserve to get 8x150kg at the end. If i add 2.5kg every session i should be back up to 150kg in a week. lol.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 05:51:04 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4636 on: February 18, 2019, 10:01:25 pm »
0
Bodyweight(AM): 88.1kg (19 Feb)
Diet compliance: 15/15 days
Daily Squat: 94/94 days
Daily OHP: 17/17 days
Daily Cardio: 6/15 days
Daily Act:
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x155, 12x132.5(PR)
   OHP 4x61

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • Am sick of squats. I have yet to see any benefit whatsover from daily squatting apart from being better at squatting (marginally) and plenty of downsides. This has been a huge disappointment so far.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 05:32:22 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4637 on: February 19, 2019, 10:29:26 am »
+2
you PR nearly every workout. also, training is about overreaching and then supercompensating while you back off. i bet if you gave yourself a bit of time off you could hit a huge PR. it's why i've been secretly hoping for KF to sign up for a PL comp and actually take a few days off for once. i bet he could hit 600.
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4638 on: February 19, 2019, 01:36:05 pm »
+1
you PR nearly every workout.

tons of PR's. his use of "marginal" seems inaccurate, afaik.

Quote
also, training is about overreaching and then supercompensating while you back off. i bet if you gave yourself a bit of time off you could hit a huge PR.

jump pr, dno - unless he jumps more.

seems like when he's jumping more, jumps are decent. remember lots of vids of him really getting up, and that was during the daily squatting experiment.

as for big squat PR, ya I imagine so. but, maxent's diet fluctuates so much that it risks keeping him in "limbo", IMHO. i still don't really get it. I mean if I were maxent i'd be trying to achieve the lower body of an NFL defensive back/sprinter -> huge glutes/quads/hamstrings. The diet fluctuations are constantly in conflict with that, in my opinion. Put slabs of mass on the lower body, it'll make you ripped all over & improve relative strength/power.

i mean that's what i'd be obsessed with if i was into dunking/jumping/basketball performance. my legs were huge back when I was doing daily squatting/heavy high rep squatting etc. i was more ripped back then than from running. just so much more lean mass to feed.. even though I was still only ~145-150 lb.

Quote
it's why i've been secretly hoping for KF to sign up for a PL comp and actually take a few days off for once. i bet he could hit 600.

he def can get the cali squat record lol.


Quote
Notes:
  • Am sick of squats. I have yet to see any benefit whatsover from daily squatting apart from being better at squatting (marginally) and plenty of downsides. This has been a huge disappointment so far.

seems like you're putting too much hope into the squat itself. it's just a daily anabolic stimulus, which also heavily targets the anti-gravity muscles.

i mean i always personally thought of it as "taking my vitamins". I used it to increase aggressiveness, leg strength, leg mass, etc. But then I got my jumps/sprints/reactive work in etc, to tie it all together.

pc!

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4639 on: February 19, 2019, 10:52:19 pm »
0
Bodyweight(AM): 87.8kg (20 Feb)
Diet compliance: 16/16 days
Daily Squat: 95/95 days
Daily OHP: 18/18 days
Daily Cardio: 6/16 days
Daily Act:
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
    

Noon:
   

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • had a head ache since last night
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 11:11:40 pm by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4640 on: February 19, 2019, 11:09:34 pm »
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you PR nearly every workout. also, training is about overreaching and then supercompensating while you back off. i bet if you gave yourself a bit of time off you could hit a huge PR. it's why i've been secretly hoping for KF to sign up for a PL comp and actually take a few days off for once. i bet he could hit 600.

i dont think we (ppl who train daily) see it the same way as people who train less frequently. the idea of 'taking a few days off' just becomes unthinkable, it becomes habit in a way you can't really understand until you've done it, compulsive even. ive been compelled to go and squat (heavy) even on days ive felt rough, sick, days ive checked myself out of hospital (lol) and logically it would have been beneficial to skip. And what good is that kind of peaking .. to jump higher, what if you don't even get much benefit .. you lost valuable training time for something you worked hard to build/maintain. But in it and itself ive definitely lost the belief for squatting i previously held .. if you practice it you get good at it and that's about the extent of it, have not seem benefits outside the squat platform.

it reminds me of a conversation we had in this log where todday told me something i didn't agree with. That the only valuable gains that come out of squatting are the ones which involve putting on muscle. And that's it, if there is no hypertrophy .. there is no benefit outside squatting. He ...... was right. In my experience daily squatting doesn't work because i think it actually limits hypertrophy (and even possibly more than that it reduces muscle mass?!) but you get good at squatting so logically you believe if im getting good at squatting more weights for more reps then i must be on the right track. Not srue about that now. It's just neural conditioning, over-specialising in the worst possible way to give the least possible benefit from a GPP perspective.

seems like when he's jumping more, jumps are decent. remember lots of vids of him really getting up, and that was during the daily squatting experiment.

really can't remember how that felt. it was a year ago i was still getting up .. i would step on the gym scales at 95kg and i coudl still hit 36" jumps .. that's basically rec league zion level compared to what im at now .. strugglign to get 27" (below palm touch on the rim). not even close to 27" .. 25" if im being generous. at that time i wasn't doing daily squatting, dabbling with eod squatting BUT with the caveat i had build my strength up with HIGH volume .. once a week high volume workouts of 10-20 sets of heavy 5s .. that worked better i think because it put more muscle on my body .. daily squatting has not done that at all, in fact i'd suggest the opposite .. the body gets so efficient that it can do more with less. I think even back then i wasn't in danger of putting on slabs of muscle .. there is a natural limit to that and ive probably far surpassed it already.

would do anything to get another tomahawk dunk. another 36"+ jump. but just don't see it now ..

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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4641 on: February 20, 2019, 12:06:28 am »
+2
you PR nearly every workout. also, training is about overreaching and then supercompensating while you back off. i bet if you gave yourself a bit of time off you could hit a huge PR. it's why i've been secretly hoping for KF to sign up for a PL comp and actually take a few days off for once. i bet he could hit 600.

i dont think we (ppl who train daily) see it the same way as people who train less frequently. the idea of 'taking a few days off' just becomes unthinkable, it becomes habit in a way you can't really understand until you've done it, compulsive even.

it's called discipline. if you want to peak, you have to rest.

if you can't take a few days off then you're not training for performance, you're just training to keep a streak going etc. the cool kids can't take days off. people who are obsessed with actually getting results can.

Quote
ive been compelled to go and squat (heavy) even on days ive felt rough, sick, days ive checked myself out of hospital (lol) and logically it would have been beneficial to skip. And what good is that kind of peaking .. to jump higher, what if you don't even get much benefit .. you lost valuable training time for something you worked hard to build/maintain.

if you think taking a few days off to "recover for some peak jumps" will have a detrimental effect on your performance, then you're sadly losing the psychological battle.

you're saying things a noob would say, no offense.

Quote
But in it and itself ive definitely lost the belief for squatting i previously held .. if you practice it you get good at it and that's about the extent of it, have not seem benefits outside the squat platform.

it reminds me of a conversation we had in this log where todday told me something i didn't agree with. That the only valuable gains that come out of squatting are the ones which involve putting on muscle. And that's it, if there is no hypertrophy .. there is no benefit outside squatting. He ...... was right.

i doubt he'd agree with that. i'm sure he'd agree that neural-gain lifting has it's place.

Quote
In my experience daily squatting doesn't work because i think it actually limits hypertrophy (and even possibly more than that it reduces muscle mass?!) but you get good at squatting so logically you believe if im getting good at squatting more weights for more reps then i must be on the right track. Not srue about that now. It's just neural conditioning, over-specialising in the worst possible way to give the least possible benefit from a GPP perspective.

you're out of your mind.

daily squatting limits hypertrophy? reduces muscle mass? what the fuck?

cutting calories prevents hypertrophy.

you cut calories more than you squat.

Quote
seems like when he's jumping more, jumps are decent. remember lots of vids of him really getting up, and that was during the daily squatting experiment.

really can't remember how that felt. it was a year ago i was still getting up .. i would step on the gym scales at 95kg and i coudl still hit 36" jumps .. that's basically rec league zion level compared to what im at now .. strugglign to get 27" (below palm touch on the rim). not even close to 27" .. 25" if im being generous. at that time i wasn't doing daily squatting, dabbling with eod squatting BUT with the caveat i had build my strength up with HIGH volume .. once a week high volume workouts of 10-20 sets of heavy 5s .. that worked better i think because it put more muscle on my body .. daily squatting has not done that at all, in fact i'd suggest the opposite .. the body gets so efficient that it can do more with less. I think even back then i wasn't in danger of putting on slabs of muscle .. there is a natural limit to that and ive probably far surpassed it already.


lol @ natural limit. you aren't even close to any natural limits.. and that's a compliment.

if that works better than maybe get back on it.

just stop doing all this recomp shit. stop cutting. that approach is so toxic to athletic performance.

heavy lifting & obsession with skinny-fatness / calorie cutting don't usually work well together.

eat to grow but train so hard that you can't become a blob, it's a simple formula.

i'm pointing out nutrition because it's important not to sabotage lifting by calorie cutting. it seems to be a theme.

Quote
would do anything to get another tomahawk dunk. another 36"+ jump. but just don't see it now ..

you'd do anything other than jumping frequently, apparently. lol. :ninja:

just my 2cents/trying to help.

pc.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4642 on: February 20, 2019, 01:58:18 am »
0
But ive never done jumping more than 1-2x a week. Most of the time it was even less than 1x a week! Once a month even. .. so ive never needed high freq jumping before, why do i need to start that now? it doesn't make sense! Also i've never done peaking before .. i never take time off to 'rest' and 'supercompensate' on purpose .. if it happend it was by accident not something i did on purpose and so it's never been something ive needed to jump high. My previous jump PRs all came as part of normal training not something i created via peaking.  I do remember one time (end of 2015) i was on holiday so i wasn't lifting .. and i did some jumps that felt really high which i couldn't understand why but it probably was a rest thing .. my point is that was never a feature of my training before. if i was trying to peak for 40" say, it would be one thing. I'm talking about levels i previously attained regularly in training.

I do think there is something to the idea that as you get mroe efficient you need less muscle mass to achieve the same result. High freq is def gonig to optimise neural efficiency which might mean there is less stimulus to create hypertrophy. i dont care about studies im just reporting my experience right now

the calories thing is a red herring. every day i get at least 200g protein, at least 150-200g carbs .. that's daily. now im not eating much more than that but obviously i ate more along the way to go from the 82.5kg i started with to end up the 88kg i am now! the only stupid thing about that is that when the weights were light i could afford to eat a lot more and now the weights are heavy and i can't afford to eat as much as i did back then. if daily squatting had worked i would have enough muscle to get my goal (2xbw) but it never delivered on that :(


i havent started cutting yet! That would be the first part of peaking though, which i plan to do. It's delayed for now but i will have to diet off about 3kg to get to 85kg. Not started on that yet, still haven't got enough squat gains to warrant doing that just yet. 150kg for 8 im hoping will be good enough to give me a 170kg squat then i can diet off a couple of kilos to 85kg bw maintaining the 170kg. That's peaking .. not something i can do right now. If i were to do it now .. i'd prob end up being a sub 160kg squatter and miss the goal. On paper i need to be a 180kg+ squatter before i begin a cut so i can still hope to have a 170kg squat in me after cutting
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 02:09:15 am by maxent »
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4643 on: February 20, 2019, 05:35:51 pm »
+2
Just to be clear for all us folks reading this, including me. Is the goal to be a good squatter or to jump higher and be more athletic?
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4644 on: February 20, 2019, 10:56:45 pm »
+1
Currently it's to get to a maintainable 170kg daily max at 85kg bodyweight and switch focus to athleticism. I think getting to a daily 162.5kg minimum with the ability to (but very seldom) squat 170kg while weighing 85kg is within my grasp if i can get to rep 150kg for about 8 reps. For what it's worth my daily minimum is currently set at 155kg and my rep best is 7x147.5kg. Just need to close that gap then move on from squats (finally).
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4645 on: February 20, 2019, 11:30:41 pm »
+1
Currently it's to get to a maintainable 170kg daily max at 85kg bodyweight and switch focus to athleticism. I think getting to a daily 162.5kg minimum with the ability to (but very seldom) squat 170kg while weighing 85kg is within my grasp if i can get to rep 150kg for about 8 reps. For what it's worth my daily minimum is currently set at 155kg and my rep best is 7x147.5kg. Just need to close that gap then move on from squats (finally).

So to be categorical, you want to be a good squatter. Once you're a good squatter you want to become athletic.

We've defined a good squatter (your words) as a repeatable daily max of 170kg at 85kg. What is your definition of athleticism?
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4646 on: February 21, 2019, 05:05:13 am »
+1
There's no contradiction.. im claiming daily squatting doesn't seem to do much for athleticism and may possibly limit it and at the same time i do want to become more athletic but not right now, too busy finishing off a goal (that i previously believed to have a benefit but no longer subscribe to that belief). I'm too close to just give up. It's more just to do it than for any benefit that may come but has not yet shown itself.
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4647 on: February 21, 2019, 05:07:25 am »
+1
Bodyweight(AM): 88.2kg (21 Feb)
Diet compliance: 17/17 days
Daily Squat: 96/96 days
Daily OHP: 19/19 days
Daily Cardio: 6/17 days
Daily Act:
Basketball skill work:

Morning:
    

Noon:
   BS 7x120, 1x157.5, 12x135(PR)
   OHP 8x55(PR?) 

Evening:
    


Notes:
  • Right well im never going to do cardio as long as the squats are this hard .. but i may start doing the daily walks again, better than nothing.
  • I've decided to man up and make 157.5kg my daily min max from here on .. i figure anything above 152.5kg feels hard so might as well go for something closer to the goal of a daily 162.5kg minmax. Bar speed was good .. so i'd say my 1rm is closer to 175kg now and probably above that cos it didn't feel like a 90% 1rm. Anyway...
  • the app on my phone says 12x135kg -> 188kg max ha.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 05:17:24 am by maxent »
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4648 on: February 21, 2019, 07:12:30 pm »
+2
There's no contradiction.. im claiming daily squatting doesn't seem to do much for athleticism and may possibly limit it and at the same time i do want to become more athletic but not right now, too busy finishing off a goal (that i previously believed to have a benefit but no longer subscribe to that belief). I'm too close to just give up. It's more just to do it than for any benefit that may come but has not yet shown itself.

Mate you mistook my post for sarcasm. It was a legitimate question regarding athleticism. I asked myself the same thing recently and was surprised at my answer and how that lined up with my training practices.

I'm all for chasing that goal you've been chasing so long. Looks like you're closer than ever.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4649 on: February 22, 2019, 06:03:23 am »
+1
There's no contradiction.. im claiming daily squatting doesn't seem to do much for athleticism and may possibly limit it and at the same time i do want to become more athletic but not right now, too busy finishing off a goal (that i previously believed to have a benefit but no longer subscribe to that belief). I'm too close to just give up. It's more just to do it than for any benefit that may come but has not yet shown itself.

Mate you mistook my post for sarcasm. It was a legitimate question regarding athleticism. I asked myself the same thing recently and was surprised at my answer and how that lined up with my training practices.

I'm all for chasing that goal you've been chasing so long. Looks like you're closer than ever.

sorry i just understand what im saying and what im doing are two opposite things. if i truly believed this is a lost cause (daily squatting & squatting itself) i prob would stop and do something else. that cognitive dissonance is very real. And yea you got it, it's just about finishing what i started .. ive put too much into this one persuit to turn away after so long


re athleticism, it's something you recognise when you see it. and when someone lacks it you see it. i watched some kids games last friday while waiting for a court and there was a 14 year old kid (i imagine) jumping out of the gym, sprinting all over the court and just beasting in every possible way. that's an athlete. he's a (not tall) white kid but he tried to go for a put back dunk in a game .. that's a FAR better athlete than ive ever been or will become haha

an easier question is what does athleticism mean for me? that would be maximising my fitness, strength to power etc .. very dumb, very gym oriented qualities which are the vestige of the mediocre. or in other words, play a game where you can win at something that doesn't matter
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template