Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 923773 times)

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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4770 on: April 13, 2019, 04:12:14 am »
-1
Do you see the problem with that though? In a clinical setting i'm not going to exhibit any symptoms. You telling me if James Harden walked into his primary care physician office and said yo i need treatment he'd get it? Doc will take one look at you and say you're in good shape and healthy and you should get going.

you serious? how do you think doctors diagnose asthma? guessing?

also, the eye doctor example some anti-vaxxer logic. went to eye doctor, eyes changed from time to time per administered tests, stopped going to doctor, eyes stabilized per your own perception, ergo not going to doctor stabilizes eyes. of course! it makes perfect sense. or perhaps your eyes stabilized because that's what happens when people get older. or perhaps they have gotten worse but because it's happened gradually and only slightly over time you don't perceive it.

i swear antivaxxer is the new nazi germany in internet arguments? im aware that eyesight stabilises with age. However, both of my siblings continued to go the optometrist and kept getting hte numbers increased over time. I chose not to because the last time i was given a new script, i got a pair of glasses made and they were giving me headaches. I went back and returned them and ordered glasses online according to my old numbers and i was happy. Been happy since, eyesight is as good as i can remember it being. Yea if at any stage in those years i went to get checked i bet my numbers would be different. But if you keep changing them then you keep changing them. I'll stop short of calling it a scam but it surely is that in some sense.

Also we're talking about something OTC. It's not necessary to have a script to get an inhaler here. I also dont see everyone using one at the rec leagues, it's not conferring any advantage to the majority of folk. Only those who need it wil benefit. Knowing doctors like i do, mine would hear my n=1 experiment and listen to it intently b/c it gives valuable info for making an informed decision. Its exactly like a test except i'd be taking the initiative because we don't really prescribe tests under stressful exercise readily. Ive never had one done yet, doctors don't see the need. That's just the way it will go, you're healthy, you're fine, don't worry about it. Next. They don't have the time to fully investigate any one patient, they prob can't even tell you your name 5 minutes after you leave the room and they don't have a chart handy. It's a system that requires doing your own homework to get the maximum benefit.

I mentioned James Harden cos he's an example of an elite basketball player who has a known history of asthma. I bet if he was to go to a doc they'd say he's HEALTHY AF and as far as the doctor goes, that's good enough to call next. They're not interested in solving problems outside of actual pathologies for the most part.

Also have a read here you jackasses:

https://thorax.bmj.com/content/56/9/675

Effects of inhaled salbutamol in exercising non-asthmatic athletes

Quote
RESULTS Neither endurance time nor post-exercise bronchodilation were significantly different between the treatments. Metabolic parameters were affected by exercise but not by treatment.

CONCLUSIONS Inhaled salbutamol, even in a high dose, did not have a significant effect on endurance performance in non-asthmatic athletes, although the bronchodilating effect of the drug at the beginning of exercise may have improved respiratory adaptation. Our results do not preclude an ergogenic effect of β2 agonists given by other routes or for a longer period.


it literally only works for ppl with asthma and (see article below) not in a performance sense. simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

Quote
Inhaled salbutamol does not affect athletic performance in asthmatic and non-asthmatic cyclists.

CONCLUSIONS:
The inhalation of salbutamol induced a significant increase in resting lung function in EVH+ and EVH- athletes but this improvement in lung function did not translate to improved exercise performance. Salbutamol had no discernible effect on key ventilatory and exercise parameters regardless of EVH challenge outcome.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24100289


So it doesn't even improve performance in asthmatic athletes.. so much for all this beat up

To add to this i have a team mate who used to be treated for asthma when he was younger. He's now pretty fit and doesn't use any medication. But there is got to be a mechanism there for the treatment helping ppl overcome this long term. So the way LBBS has called it 'short-term' might not be the case. I've read James Harden used to use the inhaler during college games, but i dont remember hearing about it after he got into the NBA. there may be a mechanism there where ppl gradually adapt to better (read normal) lung function over time.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 08:33:10 am by maxent »
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4771 on: April 13, 2019, 12:12:28 pm »
+1
Quote
it literally only works for ppl with asthma and (see article below) not in a performance sense. simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

to be clear, none of my previous statements took the anti-ped angle (you did). nor did LBSS's iirc. my statements echo'd the bold statement, ie you're considering taking something you probably don't need, in an environment of high exertion.

you're justifying using it to improve performance, because you think you may have some kind of asthma. a doctor will tell you if you do or not.



Galen Rupp is a known asthma sufferer. Surely doctors don't tell him he's too healthy for asthma medication etc.

https://www.rxwiki.com/feature-article/olympian-galen-rupp-suffers-asthma-and-allergies



Quote
simple test proposed here seems to have triggered your kneejerk reflex Anti PED response .. check your assumptions..

it triggered my "dont do dumb as fu*k stuff kneejerk reflex".

weird how you say "check your assumptions" when you're assuming (or something?) that we're taking an ANTI PED angle. kinda ironic.

the angle is: find out if you actually have some kind of asthma instead of experimenting with inhalers.

apologies if my replies bug you, just expressing my concerns with going down that road.



brb taking insulin before this long run. :trolldance: :ibrunning:

gukl

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4772 on: April 13, 2019, 12:38:16 pm »
+3
Salbutamol doesn't cause long term adaptions, tonnes of people just grow out of asthma. The other mainstay of treatment for asthma is corticosteroids which, unless you actually have asthma it probably isn't a good idea to take. If you actually think you have asthma... Go get tested, young people die of asthma. Also your comment about James harden walking into the doctors symptom free.. You don't have to be having an asthma attack for it to be detected!

David Beckham is another famous pro who has asthma, occasionally see him pitch side with an inhaler. Is it cold where you are? Exercise and cold can both trigger bronchoconstriction which is actually quite noticeable for me (I don't have asthma).

If you don't have asthma as others said, an inhaler isn't going to do much for you other than jack up your heart rate.

FWIW salbutamol is pretty harmless (unless you have an arrhythmia or something) in med school we actually did spirometry experiments and they let us use salbutamol to do experiments on each other.

Talking of PEDs, I'm currently working on a renal medicine ward... Everyone is on EPO. The temptation is strong. (I'm kidding).

« Last Edit: April 13, 2019, 12:51:29 pm by gukl »

adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4773 on: April 13, 2019, 02:46:12 pm »
+1
Salbutamol doesn't cause long term adaptions, tonnes of people just grow out of asthma. The other mainstay of treatment for asthma is corticosteroids which, unless you actually have asthma it probably isn't a good idea to take. If you actually think you have asthma... Go get tested, young people die of asthma. Also your comment about James harden walking into the doctors symptom free.. You don't have to be having an asthma attack for it to be detected!

David Beckham is another famous pro who has asthma, occasionally see him pitch side with an inhaler. Is it cold where you are? Exercise and cold can both trigger bronchoconstriction which is actually quite noticeable for me (I don't have asthma).

If you don't have asthma as others said, an inhaler isn't going to do much for you other than jack up your heart rate.

FWIW salbutamol is pretty harmless (unless you have an arrhythmia or something) in med school we actually did spirometry experiments and they let us use salbutamol to do experiments on each other.

Talking of PEDs, I'm currently working on a renal medicine ward... Everyone is on EPO. The temptation is strong. (I'm kidding).

good info.

and ya he's had heart "issues", arrhythmias and such. that's why i think it's a really bad idea to play around with, especially to experiment with it during exercise.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4774 on: April 14, 2019, 08:09:38 am »
0
Tried it out (salbutamol) today and im not sure it was a success. Literally saw a big white puff rise out at the top so im not sure if it even ended up going in my lungs lol. Felt feelings of anxiety and dread but that might be unrelated cos i was running late and trying to plan my Final Training Session. Literally made no progress on the lebron 8 dunk challenge, i actually went backwards but that was probably because my body just wasn't up to it today. Was having trouble just dunking without even the running. In the evening i went for a run with the vest and suprisingly my HR was sub 150 .. even though im just as heavy as last time i did this, and today i was going up hill as well. Maybe the wind was cancelling that out. Idk. Don't think the inhaler had any effect at this point since i took it in the morning (around 11am) and ran around 7pm. Weather was cool though, so that might be why my HR was lower  since most of my running was done in warm/hot conditions previously.

Not sure if i'll bother my doctor about getting a test unless im sure i will get a positive test, he'll just think im a hypochondriac or something and i dont wanna have to deal with that. Tbh i suspect i def am likely to have it b/c as long as i can remember my endurance has been awful. Even when i was very lean and light i still had the same issues. Was a weak swimmer. etc. It's been a feature of my life for so long, i just dont think anyone would have noticed, not my parents who probably never even heard of asthma and who else would have noticed or cared?
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maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4775 on: April 15, 2019, 09:33:00 am »
0
Bodyweight(AM): 86kg (15 March)
Diet compliance: 37/37 days
Daily Squat: 148/148 days
Activity:


Morning:
   

Noon:
 BS 3x120, 1x140 

Evening:
 Shooting practice 


Notes:
  • Right calf is bugged out. I need to figure out what's wrong with it, might be compartment syndrome b/c it seems to get worse if i pull my socks up.
Training for sub 20 5K & 40" RVJ & 170kg BS @ 85kg bw. log entry template

adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4776 on: April 15, 2019, 10:46:45 am »
0
Tried it out (salbutamol) today and im not sure it was a success. Literally saw a big white puff rise out at the top so im not sure if it even ended up going in my lungs lol. Felt feelings of anxiety and dread but that might be unrelated cos i was running late and trying to plan my Final Training Session. Literally made no progress on the lebron 8 dunk challenge, i actually went backwards but that was probably because my body just wasn't up to it today. Was having trouble just dunking without even the running. In the evening i went for a run with the vest and suprisingly my HR was sub 150 .. even though im just as heavy as last time i did this, and today i was going up hill as well. Maybe the wind was cancelling that out. Idk. Don't think the inhaler had any effect at this point since i took it in the morning (around 11am) and ran around 7pm. Weather was cool though, so that might be why my HR was lower  since most of my running was done in warm/hot conditions previously.

Not sure if i'll bother my doctor about getting a test unless im sure i will get a positive test, he'll just think im a hypochondriac or something and i dont wanna have to deal with that. Tbh i suspect i def am likely to have it b/c as long as i can remember my endurance has been awful. Even when i was very lean and light i still had the same issues. Was a weak swimmer. etc. It's been a feature of my life for so long, i just dont think anyone would have noticed, not my parents who probably never even heard of asthma and who else would have noticed or cared?

fwiw. light & lean can help *but* it doesn't indicate anything about heart & lung ability. plenty of light & lean people out there with 0 cardio/fitness.

also regarding asthma, feels like you're trivializing it a bit. people who get asthma attacks and such, definitely know they have a problem. it's not only during exercise, they can be just sitting around and out of nowhere be unable to breathe. obviously there's different levels to it.



Notes:
  • Right calf is bugged out. I need to figure out what's wrong with it, might be compartment syndrome b/c it seems to get worse if i pull my socks up.

damn sucks. i don't mess with pulled gastrocs. pulled soleus ya, but not gastroc. be careful w/ it.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4777 on: April 15, 2019, 11:05:46 am »
+1
Idk compartment syndrome was just something i came across on youtube when searching about shin splints. And the reason i made the connection is b/c i was contemplating getting some calf compressions but i realised it wouldnt really help b/c simply pulling socks up mades it worse, which sounds like what compartment syndrome is like (compression of fascia). still, ive had this for a long time now. it started when i started running from memory. That seems to be the trigger, altho doing high volume squatting can also seem to induce it as well. Now it's just seemingly gotten worse.

It's manifesting itself in squats, my right leg just seems weaker now. Im favouring the left a lot during squats b/c the right just seems to not be able to handle the load. It probably doesnt help i do my jumping with planting right leg either, which puts a ton of stress on it. and sometimes i think maybe the problem is upstream b/c the entire right leg just seems weirdly tight/immobile .. like from glutes and adductors down .. prob just need some decent rest.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 11:08:12 am by maxent »
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Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4778 on: April 30, 2019, 06:53:32 pm »
+3
Bump.

How'd the tournament go?
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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AGC

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4779 on: May 08, 2019, 10:38:45 pm »
+3
Does entropy usually take a posting break after the Easter tournament? Hope he's having a good deload and refreshing himself. He seems to put a lot of pressure on himself for this event.

maxent

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4780 on: June 20, 2019, 03:34:51 am »
+6
I havent been able to train since i stopped logging .. along the way while training for the comp, i had picked up a knee injury, right knee was swollen etc. im still not sure what it is, ive been resting it and havent trained on it and still hasn't healed. Possibly torn ligaments.. still not sure which but today i had an MRI done so hopefully i can get some sort of closure soon. Waiting for the results .. they said by weds next week. Before this i had an ultrasound and xray done which came out clean. I was told the mri could take an hour and i was surprised when 15 mins in the guy came into the room and said you're done. I asked him that was short? And he said you held still and didnt move. Im just the kind of guy who would brag about how long his MRI took  :personal-record:. Was v. peaceful lying there with the gentle droning of the MRI machine, i wish i had been there longer but oh well.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 03:36:26 am by maxent »
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4781 on: June 20, 2019, 07:59:21 am »
+2
that sucks man. hope there's no serious damage.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Coges

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4782 on: June 20, 2019, 08:07:28 pm »
+2
x 2 man. Fingers crossed.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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adarqui

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4783 on: June 21, 2019, 12:15:35 am »
+1
awful to hear man. :/

hope you're ok & the results aren't serious.

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #4784 on: June 21, 2019, 03:38:51 am »
+1
Best wishes from me too. Injuries are horrible!
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?