Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 923686 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2012, 11:07:06 am »
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<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnbKqMHgGmc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnbKqMHgGmc</a>

Thought to look on youtube for how to tape an ankle. Was blown away with some of the stuff i came across. So I went to the pharmacy and came back with some new stuff, and as a result, I've taped my ankle really well for the first time, feels amazingly stable and firm, and it doesn't feel like I could hurt it by accident. Feel 100% safe and secure.

The only downside, and I was hoping it wouldn't happen, is losing much ROM that I can't squat down.  I will have to lay off squatting and do a lot of RDLs and focus on upper body. I could even join a gym for a few weeks. They will have dumbells and machines there. Should be fun. Ideas on upper body training? Would like to add a few inches to my guns and look like somone who lifts. Thinking lots of bench press, overhead press, chinups, lat pull downs, rows and curls. Perhaps 4-5 times a week.
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entropy

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w1,d1
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2012, 08:42:38 am »
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Training
SQ - 2x6 104kg
Partial SQ, 3x120, 2x125
BP - 3x6 77.5kg
RDL - 2x8x80,3x85,3x90,2x95

Knee pain, as might be expected when squatting with a taped up ankle. But otherwise I can squat ok. I felt the deeper I go, the more  ankle flexion occurs, the more it hurts my ankle.

Today for some reason I thought to try partial squats. Looking at the video, with my long limbs, it still looks like a legitimate exercise. I can imagine a small person not doing much work with partial squats, but for me, it looks like a genuine lift. I mean someone 5'7" even full squatting looks a bit like a ezy peazy curtsey to me, nevermind their partial. But discovering how wonderful partial squats are to do makes me question the whole zealous dogma surrounding full squats. But for me right now, the main advantage is that works well with restricted ankle ROM. I also felt it target my quads very well, which was surprising. Will explore them further. Wish I had sooner, I guess I could afford to be even more open minded than I thought I was when it comes to training.

Lots of RDLs. I love this exercise. I am going to aim to my worksets up to 100kg asap. Basically RDL every time I go to my gym.

BP was rather challenging, found myself struggling with the latter warmups and the worksets were definitely maximal. Layoffs do that to me, apparently, even just a week between benching. Chins were difficult too. Upper body detrained.

Oh yea this is the start of a new training cycle with a focus on rehab, attaining full mobility and doing a lot of upper body lifts, RDLs and partial squats.
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vag

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Re: w1,d1
« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2012, 09:23:15 am »
+2
Today for some reason I thought to try partial squats. Looking at the video, with my long limbs, it still looks like a legitimate exercise. I can imagine a small person not doing much work with partial squats, but for me, it looks like a genuine lift. I mean someone 5'7" even full squatting looks a bit like a ezy peazy curtsey to me, nevermind their partial. But discovering how wonderful partial squats are to do makes me question the whole zealous dogma surrounding full squats. But for me right now, the main advantage is that works well with restricted ankle ROM. I also felt it target my quads very well, which was surprising. Will explore them further. Wish I had sooner, I guess I could afford to be even more open minded than I thought I was when it comes to training.

Welcome to my world!
I have had those thoughts about full/half squats in relation with long legs ( mine are ~38'' to hip joint with a height just under 6' ) for many years now.
I think that the answer is that we are WEAK AS SHIT and we tend to favour the half squats because we can lift more weight there. Having long-ass limbs makes it even worse , because it amplifies the full/partial squat strength gap.
Using both is not bad though, just imho make sure to stick with the (lighter) full squats for strength gains, use partials for specifity/stim/peaking.

Just 2 bro-science cents :D
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

entropy

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w1,d2
« Reply #78 on: June 27, 2012, 12:33:06 pm »
0
Training
SQ 5x100kg
BP 5x60kg
Basketball

I wanted to take it easy in the gym. But probably not this easy, it turns out I couldn't have done much more if I had wanted to anyway. I found it hard to rep heavy, hit a max of 117.5kg and dropped down to 100kg to do some reps but found it hard. I just can't squat properly without bothering my ankle. I tried different stances, and some are better than others. Doesn't matter, i'm hoping I can get a PR on friday.

I got roped into playing another basketball game. What can I say, am addicted to basketball lol. Texted my team mate and said, ok i'll play today but it's my last one.  On the way there I was thinking how badly I wanted that W and i'd do everything I could to get it.  I know we suck, but surely if I played like a beast we could still win? We played the 3rd top team, and they were a lot better than us. Put it this way, any one of their players would be the 2nd best player on ours, by a large margin. The odds were not so good but I thought there is nothing to lose here. Fuck it lets have fun. My plan was, dominate the game early, and then take the pressure off my team mates, and then bring them into the game more once we had a decent lead and the pressure was lifted. Pressure on poor players sucks, it leads to turnovers and transition baskets, and it was my duty to take the burden of pressure, so they didn't have to. This way I can only blame myself for not doing more, rather than my team mates who can't help it. I mean sure they could improve themselves but lets be realistic that's not going to happen, and during a game isn't the time to improve lol.

To cut a long story short I ended up scoring 75% of my teams points and only missed a few attempts in teh 2nd half. My FG% was around 70% working it now. I LOVED this game, they were a good opponent, and I had to earn every basket I scored. It just felt like no one could stop me. Double triple teams, it didn't matter, I kept my dribble and the harder they guarded me, the better I played. Now you're probably thinking if you were being double teamed why didn't you hit the open man. Because my plan was to keep the pressure on myself. Sure I could dish it out after attracting the defense, but then i'd have to watch the pressure collapse on any one of my team mates who would immediately turn it over. I know it sucks, what I'd give for JUST ONE GOOD SHOOTER, but that's the sad reality.

I think though, I should have found a way to get the ball to one team mate in the many fast breaks who ran with me, just to keep him interested. But then it annoys me how people don't try to get open. I mean get out there move, do something, and in those 50%-50% situations, i'm going to choose to pass every time than hold on to it. But that's on me, I should have found a way to pass those. It's not easy when my team mate runs into the defense rather than moving away, but suppose I could fake it or something, get the defense to bite, and then pass it. I should have done that I guess. But it shouldn't be my job to make a team mate more open if you know what I mean. Guess it's a chemistry thing, if we played together more often, we'd have an understanding of what to do in those situations and then you could play together with a common purpose.

We lost though. I don't think I could have done much more myself. I mean I could have hit those 4-5 shots I missed, I suppose. But that wouldn't have made the difference. The problem was, and i'm kicking myself for not doing something about it during the game, is bringing the ball up, it was in the wrong person's hand, as in the weaker players. Like 5-10 turnovers, that become fast breaks baskets. Those killed us. The solution would have been to play point and bring it up myself. There is only one other player on my team who can bring it up (our guard) but he has no interest. He's the first person back on offense, and I know he doesn't want to bring it up. He doesn't give a fuck about that stuff, which is why I don't think he's a genuine point guard. And that leaves our weaker players to bring it up. And they can't do it. I should have brought it up more often. Would have made a huge difference.

I got a bunch of blocks, and I didn't play bad D. I just don't understand why we allow so many points to be scored against us. Must be some obvious thing i'm missing. If only there was a tape, cud go thru it and see what goes wrong.

Ah well, basketball is fun. I can't wait to get my heavy ball and work on my jump shooting. If I become a good shooter, I can see me hitting 3s during games which will be nice. And this was the first game where I left the court thinking, I am not frustrated today. The reason for that is, if I kept the pressure on myself, then I can't blame my team mates for stealing my chance to do better, if that makes sense. I am not even disappointing in yet another L - there is only so much you can do, and if you do your best, then it's easier to walk away without winning.




« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 12:37:05 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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heavy balls
« Reply #79 on: June 28, 2012, 07:25:24 am »
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Got my heavy ball :D First impressions, it's just like a normal ball but heavier lol. ~3x heavier than normal, it weighs 1.5kg.

Went to shoot around with it, and quickly realised I wasn't going to be shooting 3pts  with it. Even free throws are too far. But around the foul circle (i think this is the right term, basketball terms confuse me) closest to the rim is fine. I can shoot mostly normally from there. Anyway here are my initial observations. There is a potentiating effect to using a heavy ball. Even just holding it and touching it carries over to finding a normal ball feather light. I think spending a few minutes with the heavy ball just dribbling it does the trick. After that, I just used the normal ball to shoot and this is where interesting things happened.

1. The normal ball being lighter now meant I could try form corrections that were prohibitive before. By that I mean, a change of form which would have resulted in airballs before, now became feasible, so I could technically alter my shooting form without penalty. This is exciting stuff. See #2.

2. I tried a particular form correction which I had been reading about - basically my non shooting hand should be more perpendicular to my shooting hand. This removes the chance of side spin. Yes yes, it works very well. I started swishing shots with consistency i've seldom experienced before.

Finished off with shooting a bunch of free throws, to really cement the new shooting form. I was consistently hitting strings of 6-7 shots in a row before a miss.  Which is much better than before.

So to summarise I think the heavy ball has already proven to be a great addition to training. I completely forgot to take a camera but i'm sure it will show a prettier jumpshot. To all those people who think you can't change your shooting form, yes perhaps it's not possible, because changes to form might find particular physical weaknesses that prohibit shooting well but working with a heavy ball overcomes those limitations so you can actually make form corrections that work better. That was my experience today.

Btw, I shot around for about an hour, the time spend with the heavy ball was probably around 5 minutes. The potentiated effect lasted the full hour. The normal ball never got lighter.

I also saw noticeable and impressive improvements in ball handling and dribbling. I could dribbble much faster and my handles seemed to magically improve.
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LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #80 on: June 28, 2012, 09:40:04 am »
0


Thought to look on youtube for how to tape an ankle. Was blown away with some of the stuff i came across. So I went to the pharmacy and came back with some new stuff, and as a result, I've taped my ankle really well for the first time, feels amazingly stable and firm, and it doesn't feel like I could hurt it by accident. Feel 100% safe and secure.

The only downside, and I was hoping it wouldn't happen, is losing much ROM that I can't squat down.  I will have to lay off squatting and do a lot of RDLs and focus on upper body. I could even join a gym for a few weeks. They will have dumbells and machines there. Should be fun. Ideas on upper body training? Would like to add a few inches to my guns and look like somone who lifts. Thinking lots of bench press, overhead press, chinups, lat pull downs, rows and curls. Perhaps 4-5 times a week.

empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #81 on: June 28, 2012, 11:21:12 am »
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I would never play with a taped "fixed" ankle... no thanks, I don't want an injured knee because of it.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2012, 08:11:04 am »
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empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.

pretty general remark bro, in which case in particular? Preventative? Rehab? Chronic? Etc.

Quote from: Raptor
I would never play with a taped "fixed" ankle... no thanks, I don't want an injured knee because of it.
I would have said the same thing but somehow taping it PROPERLY made a huge difference. I haven't had knee probs since taping it firmly.
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entropy

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w1,d3
« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2012, 08:17:32 am »
0
Training
SQ 2x122.5kg (2RM PR), 8x100kg (8 rep PR), 8x90kg
BP 1x85kg, 0x93.75kg, 10x70kg (was amibitious attempting a PR today since i haven't been benching much lately)
6x~30m sprints (best time 5:13 - yea blah, was snail like today)
RDL 3x100kg (3PR), 10x80kg (8PR)

The best thing about training today was my ankle didn't bother me during squats!!! I decided to keep the "weight" over my ankle in a particular way, which seemed to work. I really wanted a triple but the 2nd was maximal and I would have probably failed the 3rd. Ah well im confident next week i'll have a triple and maybe even for 125kg. That would be sick.

Ran some sprints. They sucked. Grass was wet, i felt fatigued after all the squats. Note to self don't do too many sets of squats before sprinting. Just the heavy ones, then one set for reps. Sprint then do the remaining sets. That will work better. Oh and I just didn't feel so good sprinting. Felt sluggish, I think it's because of the taped ankle too. I tried to remember the form tips I picked up from reading posts in the forum, but only found myself confused hearing Avishek's refrain saying its bullshit and muscles are nonsensical.  

Shot around for about 15mins, shot wasn't on, came home early.

Now going to do some RDLs and chins and spend the weekend resting perfectly.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2012, 08:54:41 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2012, 04:14:29 am »
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Looking at my squat video for the 122.5kg double yesterday, some observations.. the first rep was fine. But in the second:

1. Descent looks 90% ok. It could be better but it's acceptable
2. coming out of hte bottom up to the half squat position, also looks fine
3. from half squat position to the top - this is bad

Here is what goes wrong in 3, i reach a "sticking" point at the half squat position, and to overcome it, my lower back takes over in a good morning pattern. The bar is literally RAISED by the good morning, while the quads don't contribute much if at all to the bar moving up, they basically hold their position, maybe allowing my thighs to move a few degrees. Bar already raised, then knees are straightened, pretty easy since there is no work done against the bar  any more (it's not displaced).

Based on the above analysis it is clear my quads are not getting enough work. If they were, they'd be contributing from the half squat position, but this isn't happening.

Diagnostically, If my chest was further back at the half squat position, it's possible the quads could contribute more to the lift, but because the bar has moved forward, i have to GM to bring the bar back. If i could use quads more then i'd be stronger in the squat. I might even have the causation the wrong way, that if my quads were stronger then i'd be able to use them more. I dunno, am not a coach and I dont know any one who can coach me, and even if they thought they knew why, it would just be a theory anyway.

But there are some things I can try. Suppose I work on adding quad strength using partial and front squats and then seeing if it helps with the back squat form, that will confirm the theory. I forgot to do partials yesterday, but I will do them next time. Since I am doing a lot of RDLs too, hamstrings will not be neglected. I wonder if this piecemeal approach can work. Lets see.



 
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 04:23:00 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #85 on: July 01, 2012, 02:11:52 am »
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End of june update
BW: 85.5kg (Thought i'd be heavier, have been eating a lot lately)
injuries: had to rip the tape off in the middle of the night last night, it was itching me like crazy. woke up feeling pretty good. it seems it's 100% ok. i am really surprised how well hardcore taping worked. but now i have to be extra careful not to disrupt rehab going from here.

July goals: continue rehab conservatively, conservative fat loss goal of 83.5kg by aug.I have to be under 84kg at worst. And squat 130x3 - this sounds ambitious considering i am only at 122.5x2 and 120x3 atm, but i am trying a few different things which  might pay off (asssitance lifts including partial squats, RDLs and front squats).
« Last Edit: July 01, 2012, 07:34:23 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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w2d1
« Reply #86 on: July 02, 2012, 09:29:39 am »
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Training
SQ 3x6x106kg
BP 6,6,5x78.5kg

Tried a bunch of things today after squats. Started with partial squats and worked up to 140x3 with a belt. I dont use a belt for normal squats but I thought to err on teh side of safety with partials. I can probably use a lot more weight than this but dunno, intuition for partials isn't so good them being so alien. I can probably quickly work up to 2BW on these, since I just started doing them and I can handle a lot more weight than I'm used to with squats. After that I tried front squats. Found myself a natural with these, form was good from the very first set of 60kg. Worked up to 2x80 which felt a bit heavy, but still form was good (see pic below), so I did a final set of 75x3. Will be working up from here. Instantly I can tell these target the legs, since I could feel them in the legs from the first rep.

After that finished off with BP. Was thinking of doing RDLs but my workout had already taken too long. Next monday, skip the partials and just do SQ, FSQ and RDL.

I may do partials once a week, on friday after 3RM heavy squats. I guess i should make it explicit that i'm now not keen on partial squats, front squats seem like the better lift to me, even better than back squat.  I mean I had to work very hard, and still struggle with backsquat form, whereas front squats are just automatic.



^ perfectly flat back, nice and deep squat, felt it in mainly in the legs.

I am still to sort out how to hold the bar properly, on one set I accidentally had my wrist loaded under the bar, but that seems like a fairly easy thing to fix. Wish I had been doing front squats all along. Kicking myself for not trying them before.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwzyHeAlos" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwzyHeAlos</a>

^ Saw this the other day. Wonder if he's on to something hmm.

Another article I found while searching for FSQ vs BSQ - http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/documents/attached_file/filename/15739/Strong_Athlete_-_Zero_injuries.pdf - the message of correct form resonates with me a lot:
Quote
Technical failure." What it basically means is that the set ends
when you can no longer do another correct rep. I'm a big believer in the technical failure concept. The set
ends at technical failure, not when you can't cheat through another rep. I'd always rather undertrain than
overtrain. Tomorrow is another day. The tortoise beat the hare. The healthy trainee lives to train another day
while the hurt guy goes to PT.


Crazy idea would be embark on a program of RDLs and Front Squats alone. These are the two lifts I can do technically correctly with crisp form. I wish I was crazy enough to actually try it. Would be interesting.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 11:22:21 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2012, 12:00:36 pm »
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For me half squats are so much difficult vs full squats. So hard to stop and reverse at that 1/2 squat position ending.

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2012, 12:55:17 pm »
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empirical evidence for benefit from ankle taping is scanty at best.

pretty general remark bro, in which case in particular? Preventative? Rehab? Chronic? Etc.


all of the above. after i got my third ankle sprain a few years ago i started doing research and stuff -- which is what eventually led me to start working out in a structured/serious way -- and pretty much every paper i ever found on the subject was ambivalent or plainly negative on the effects of taping. there's either no difference from placebo (i.e. tape placed haphazardly) or no difference from an untaped state.

at some point i even came across a paper theorizing that tape could even negatively affect re-injury rates by providing a false sense of security.

that doesn't stop people from doing it and taking it really seriously, and i'm just a random guy on the internet who did a bunch of pubmed searches a few years ago. who knows, maybe all those NBA and NFL trainers are onto something. but nothing i found indicated that there's much there there.

ETA: the title of that video, "Why Front Squats are Better for Athletes," indicates that the person making the video may be retarded. any such categorical statement (see harvey's recent "you will notice that sprinters are massive athletes" for another example) is likely to be broscientific.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 12:59:59 pm by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2012, 01:14:13 pm »
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I respect that's your experience. In my case, i injured my ankle in February early this year and while it got slowly better, it wasn't until I taped it properly just over a week ago, that it finally healed significantly. I only taped it properly because I had recently re-injured it in a pickup game. The next day after reinjuring, I taped it up.  I think I kept the tape on for about about 10 days? That's all it took. Btw while I had it taped, I didn't stop playing ball, or lifting or even sprinting.

Here is what I've observed: many times this year I would wake up in the middle of the night, in pain, because I had put my ankle in an awkward position while sleeping. Since I taped it hardcore, that NEVER happens, and it couldn't either, I had taped it soundly so that it couldn't flex sideways, which is what caused the pain. Since removing the tape a couple of days ago, I feel fine. There are moments here and there during workouts where I felt I was bothering my ankle, but it wasn't as acute as it used to be before taping. I know you'll probably think it's placebo, but I just think the combination of immobilising the ankle for about a week made healing happen which hadn't in 5-6 months prior to taping.  


Yeah the guy in the video is a bit of a nerd. I actually think he knows a bit more than the average bro though, at least his expertise in physiology betrays a deeper understanding than the former. There is also Mike Boyle who backs fronts over backs. I don't care about dogma though, i've tried back squatting for a while, i'm going to give front a try. See what happens. If I gain nothing from it then i'll change my mind

raptor i think i know what you mean. btw the partials i did were quarter ones, not halfs. I couldn't do halfs with that much weight .. it would pin me down for sure.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2012, 01:32:45 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat