Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 924097 times)

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D4

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Re: chasing athleticism -- fat loss changes
« Reply #285 on: September 05, 2012, 08:41:09 pm »
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See the homeboy above, that V - I had that visible earlier this year when I was playing basketball despite weighing about 4-5kg more. That means i've lost 4kg of bodyweight and since i'm stronger and more muscular now than then, it has been 4-5kg of bodyfat.

How do you guys explain that? Cal in vs Cal out sermons can't explain it to me. I'm willing to accept I was burning more calories then than now. But i also know i was eating more then than now. So how does that affect balance? Now think about this for a second. I've maintained a caloric deficit to lose 4-5kg of bodyfat, so im definitely in a deficit, but yet that V above, yea I dont have it right now!!

I WONT cut more calories from my diet. I'm practically eating 2 square meals, 2000-2700 calories a day. I wont drop below 2000 and if you tell me to cut more than that. I REFUSE TO CUT ANY MORE CALORIES. My metabolism will get fucked up if I have a bigger deficit from diet than I already have and that's no way to live.

But I dont need to cut any mroe calories because there are other ways to burn bodyfat than thru diet. Aerobic steady state and HIIT will do that very well. I know that from experience.

I think I have it figured out tho. It's the mix of aerobic and hiit that I need to add. And sensibly, not 10+km of cardio a week like I did last week. No it has to be a reasonable amount. And it has to be both aerobic and hiit. I cant' and wont go back to playing basketball (cos then i cant train properly), so i'll have to be really smart about this.

tentative plan
daily 500m-600m fasted TM (~5-10mins, weekly progression: add 0.1km/hr and 50m)
1x a week HIIT (tabata mountain bike),  steady state cardio (30-60 mins riding mountain bike)
3x a week - ~3mins/session - TM warmups  - before weights, stick to about 3 minutes, not too high intensity, just get warm and blood flowing.
1x week pickup basketball (max of 3 games, and no more than 2 games back to back).


Playing pickup, I wont/cant play 2-3 hours straight like i did sunday because then training gets fucked up.

But basically i'm going to keep a bit of daily aerobic work, nice and gentle, pure fat loss, little impact on lifting. And slowly ramp it up over time. Then ride a bike trying to simulate my magic fat loss from basketball (mix of HIIT and aerobic) by doing tabata sprints and then just riding casually for 30-60mins.

On off days, i might go for a long walk but not a treadmill and maybe shoot hoops. dunno maybe.

I don't want to do much running/jogging cos it fucks up my knees/ankles and tires out my calves/hamstrings/quads and makes for shitty squat sessions.  So i'm going to try riding a bike instead. Hopefully that will give the conditioning without the side-effects i just mentioned. It also gives me a chance to go outdoors since i have a nice bike trail 5 minutes near my place.

 I want a nice balance of aerobic (2x a week) and HIIT (1x a week). Just what I had when I played basketball earlier in the year and saw good spot reduction of belly fat.

-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved. 
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #286 on: September 06, 2012, 12:07:48 am »
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Quote
-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved.  
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.

lol aren't you pushing the calories-in dogma a little too far dude? I agree its the main thing if you eat like crap it probably doesn't matter what you do training wise, you'll still stay fat. but that's not my situation, im eating 95% clean and under maintenance, so i've got that in check. I'm not someone spending 10 minutes on the treadmill and then going to have double whoppers "for recovery" post workout!

basically my argument is this, whenever i've played basketball seriously, i'd be unwittingly doing HIIT and aerobic training and this burns bodyfat. Period. And it does this regardless of whether or not i'm in a caloric surplus or deficit or maintenance or whatever. That's my experience. When I was in university i was on a high caloric intake and yet i was very lean because of basketball. And recently, earlier this year when I played basketball (as compared to not doing any HIIT or aerobic exercise) - i burnt bodyfat - bellyfat to be specific even though my caloric intake was slightly surplus to maintenance.

But now i'm on a caloric deficit while not playing basketball i've lost 4-5kg of bodyweight and yet I have more bellyfat than I did when i weighed more and wasn't cutting but was playing basketball. 'm not generalising to everyone out there, just describing my personal experience.

And btw there is spot reduction but not in the way you are thinking of. For example if you take someone very obese, and you put them on a low carb diet and have them doing cardio, they'll take off belly fat preferentially according to the science. Or even if you take some one obese who is sedentary, the experts say first goes the visceral bodyfat and then the subcutaneous. Is that spot reduction in the sense of someone doing high rep bench press to burn man boobs? Not quite the same thing

But if you're going to talk about facts you have to admit that aerobic and HIIT are good at burning fat and introducing them to someone who doesn't do them will have a fat loss effect (provided diet is in check which it is for me but i'm not getting the results i want with just diet alone)

Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

D4

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #287 on: September 06, 2012, 03:24:41 am »
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Quote
-There's no magic fat loss from basketball.
-Cutting under 2000 calories doesn't fuck up your metabolism to any significant degree.
-Other ways to burn bodyfat other than diet?  Other things help, but how effective these other things are comes down to your diet...
-There's no such thing as spot reduction.
-As for an explanation of your "argument" above, it's impossible to tell from the information you gave.  There can be numerous factors involved. 
-Your plan will probably work for getting you leaner, that's not what I'm arguing.  I'm just saying your facts are totally wrong.

lol aren't you pushing the calories-in dogma a little too far dude? I agree its the main thing if you eat like crap it probably doesn't matter what you do training wise, you'll still stay fat. but that's not my situation, im eating 95% clean and under maintenance, so i've got that in check. I'm not someone spending 10 minutes on the treadmill and then going to have double whoppers "for recovery" post workout!

basically my argument is this, whenever i've played basketball seriously, i'd be unwittingly doing HIIT and aerobic training and this burns bodyfat. Period. And it does this regardless of whether or not i'm in a caloric surplus or deficit or maintenance or whatever. That's my experience. When I was in university i was on a high caloric intake and yet i was very lean because of basketball. And recently, earlier this year when I played basketball (as compared to not doing any HIIT or aerobic exercise) - i burnt bodyfat - bellyfat to be specific even though my caloric intake was slightly surplus to maintenance.

But now i'm on a caloric deficit while not playing basketball i've lost 4-5kg of bodyweight and yet I have more bellyfat than I did when i weighed more and wasn't cutting but was playing basketball. 'm not generalising to everyone out there, just describing my personal experience.

And btw there is spot reduction but not in the way you are thinking of. For example if you take someone very obese, and you put them on a low carb diet and have them doing cardio, they'll take off belly fat preferentially according to the science. Or even if you take some one obese who is sedentary, the experts say first goes the visceral bodyfat and then the subcutaneous. Is that spot reduction in the sense of someone doing high rep bench press to burn man boobs? Not quite the same thing

But if you're going to talk about facts you have to admit that aerobic and HIIT are good at burning fat and introducing them to someone who doesn't do them will have a fat loss effect (provided diet is in check which it is for me but i'm not getting the results i want with just diet alone)



Where the hell in that quote of my post am I further pushing the calorie in vs out concept?

All I'm saying is, burning 100 calories from jacking off = burning 100 calories from HIT/basketball/cardio/whatever...  There can be a myriad of reasons to explain your argument, but to think basketball has had magical effects on your fat loss efforts is wrong.
Goal is to dunk.

Vertical needed to dunk: 40"

Current vertical : 38.5"

Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #288 on: September 06, 2012, 03:41:47 am »
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Just play basketball and keep eating relatively clean. Do whatever your body responds well to. If that's playing basketball than play basketball. As long as you eat pretty clean and exercise than you'll lose fat without having to worry about excessive dieting. Plus eating more helps for playing sport and gyming.
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #289 on: September 06, 2012, 03:42:07 am »
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Where the hell in that quote of my post am I further pushing the calorie in vs out concept?

All I'm saying is, burning 100 calories from jacking off = burning 100 calories from HIT/basketball/cardio/whatever...  There can be a myriad of reasons to explain your argument, but to think basketball has had magical effects on your fat loss efforts is wrong.

lol i think you've made your point clearly. but what intensity are we talking? is it balls out HIIT jacking off? cos that might burn a bit more calories. Or long duration steady state - smaller burn but for a longer period. But why do you have to choose one or the other, what if you do both? Then you get the benefits of HIIT and the benefits of steady state.   :P

im actually hoping i can get the same or better fat loss effect of basketbell by not not playing basketball. i'll use sprints on a bicycle for the HIIT benefit and longer rides for the aerobic benefit. I'm hoping this will give the fat loss without the fatigue of actually playing basketball

Just play basketball and keep eating relatively clean. Do whatever your body responds well to. If that's playing basketball than play basketball. As long as you eat pretty clean and exercise than you'll lose fat without having to worry about excessive dieting. Plus eating more helps for playing sport and gyming.

This. I will eat the same as usual, but I'll just more fat loss out of it by trainer better.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 03:52:10 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism - w11d3
« Reply #290 on: September 07, 2012, 12:10:52 pm »
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Training
BS 2x100, 1x110, 3x108.5
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x102.5, 0x102.5, 1x100, 1x100 (Belt on), 1x100, 0x100, 6x1x90, 2x90, 3x90, 2x90
BP 5x81.5, 6x75, 6x72.5 (close grip), 5x72.5 (wide grip)

Long fucking workout. Took 3 hours to do all that squatting. The 90s were paused. I slowed everything down so I could really nail down form. Here is what I have learnt about good form

- strong unrack, like a powerclean rack
- pull jaw apart and hold it there, keeps my chest tight (also squeezing the life out of the bar helps for that too but i tend to forget this while in the zone)
- break at knees
- sit between legs
- make sure hips are constantly loaded in tension under the bar (this avoids the tendency to lean fwd)
- hold knees stable upon sitting
- push chest upwards by driving against the floor while simultaneously
- DRIVE TRAPS BACK out of the hole

and if i go thru that encyclopedia of details i have something resembling a good squat. Now try remembering all of it while having a heavy bar on your shoulders lol. I bet it's not this hard for *other* people, i'm just not built for this shit but no matter, i'll persevere

today my quads are pumped for a change, the paused sets really help there

oh yea and in other news i broke under 180lb today, my morning bw was 179.9lb .. yay for me. Still a big fat mess though.

Fuck this shit man, its past midnight and i have yet to bench brb

damn I didn't get a PR on the bench. I probably would have on another day). No matter, i'll get it on monday!

Taking the rest of the wkend off so im nice and fresh for next week when I start my new program.

I had 110g carb, 50g fat, 180g pro today. How many calories is that? 1760? hmm. interesting.

laters
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 02:40:14 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #291 on: September 08, 2012, 05:49:52 am »
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After yesterdays front squats high vol session here is what is sore -
hamstrings (lol), glutes, and chest, and adductors. Why not quads? WHY?

re-instated daily cardio, going to keep it low intensity and duration today, 600m.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #292 on: September 08, 2012, 09:22:55 am »
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Maybe you stay a ton on your heels or something?

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #293 on: September 08, 2012, 11:16:00 am »
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Maybe you stay a ton on your heels or something?

what do you mean, while squatting? yeah but you're supposed to lol. also i just noticed im sore around my hips too and bizarrely lats. front squats man, they're some exercise.



Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #294 on: September 08, 2012, 12:54:05 pm »
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I know you're supposed to, but I kinda tend to go a bit towards the toes when I go down (or at least I was when I was squatting high bar) and that loads your quads quite a bit more in my experience because it moves the center of gravity a bit forward as well so the blunt of the load is being taken care of by the quads.

Obviously if the knees are going forward then you'll lose hamstring tension and load the quads more as well.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #295 on: September 08, 2012, 01:05:57 pm »
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Nah man I use oly shoes and never come up on my toes.

Have you ever tried putting a block under your TOES (not heel). Wonder what will do for quad activ
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #296 on: September 08, 2012, 01:56:50 pm »
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Nah man I use oly shoes and never come up on my toes.

Have you ever tried putting a block under your TOES (not heel). Wonder what will do for quad activ

I've seen people deadlift like that.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #297 on: September 09, 2012, 03:07:32 am »
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I just had a thought. If i am 19+% right now and don't know it, then I have ~10kg of fat left to lose (!). Shall I take the $100 DEXA and rule it out? I can kinda see my upper 2 abs if i flex them any time of the day now. But only faintly and to the side. If I really do have 10kg to lose i'd use RFL and drop 5kg quickly.



Hmm.

I think i'll stick to the plan. Get down to 80kg. Or drop under it and if i am 15% at that point then i'll know I have another 5kg to lose to get to 10%. If I get to 80kg and i'm still well over 15%, i'll probably do RFL for a month to get in 12-15% range.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2012, 03:23:17 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LanceSTS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #298 on: September 09, 2012, 03:32:38 am »
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  Grats on getting under 180 man, keep up the good work !@!  I wouldnt worry about dexa right now, use the scale and the mirror.  Measure your WAIST regularly, that will give you good feedback for a long period of time.
Relax.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- 12 week summary
« Reply #299 on: September 09, 2012, 11:58:38 pm »
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  Grats on getting under 180 man, keep up the good work !@!  I wouldnt worry about dexa right now, use the scale and the mirror.  Measure your WAIST regularly, that will give you good feedback for a long period of time.

Thanks lance. It didn't stick under 180 though but hopefully I will break it and stay under consistently. My waist is 34" at the navel, 35" at the widest about an 1.5" below there. So 34-35" - which is consistently lower than when I started cutting. I am guessing i'll need to get that down to 30-31" to be 10%? So have a while to go yet.

When I started this 12 week phase, I weighed around 86kg was lowbar backsquatting (w/o belt) 100x8, 120x2 (to just parallel). I was also recovering from my ankle injury and starting to front squat (2x3x75 was my first workout). RDL has gone from 3x100 to 3x125.

Since then i've healed from ankle injury, quit basketball, dropped bw to below 83kg while taking my front squat up to 1x112.5kg (and 105x3 was my last triple). My lowest BW was obviously the 179.xlb. My bench press has finally made progress and I am at 6x80.5 and going for 6x81.5 today. My vertical went up to over 30" for the first time which i'm not certain is a result of losing bodyweight or from increased leg strength. Speaking of leg strength, I am going to test my powerclean to see where it is now after not having trained it.

Oh and I also switched to high bar recently, so as far as I am concerned every improvement in HBBS is a PR because it's a different lift. For the record I squatted a PR of 1x117.5 high bar.

I haven't made the greatest gains admittedly but I have been working on fixing form, which is more important at this stage than PRs. Lets see what the next 12 weeks bring. Hopefully finish cutting.

But looking at my results I am disappointed. I have been fucking around really, I should have lost more weight. I am going to fix that in the next phase.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 01:30:06 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat