Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 924204 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #435 on: October 27, 2012, 01:43:11 am »
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both squats look great man, nice work.

Means a lot. Thanks much!

Was on the dreadmill as usual punchin in my 30-40mins slow steady a day and the meter on the thing said I burned a whole 30 calories. That means it will take 6 months to burn a whole kilo of bodyfat. lol seems almost pointless. I'm hoping that figure is on the low end but realistically it's probably not far from the truth. Ah well, it's only one part of the bigger jigsaw so it's not a big deal.

I'm going to add a 4th workout a week. I like the heavy singles a lot, but if I abuse them i'll get weaker/overtrained/injured. So will do them only on fridays. Then to make up the volume i'll add an extra training day on the weekend, but i'll make sure to only train at 70% of 1RM. This should be nice and easy and will help perfect form as well, which I need to do.

Somehow training is just coming together now, before it was all a big mess with a lot of experimenting going on trying to find something that works - think that's behind me now thankfully.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #436 on: October 27, 2012, 12:09:20 pm »
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Hey bud, I am about a month away from going on a cut.  You gave me a good advice on eating about 80% great, rather than going for 100%.  Should I focus on restricting carbs or restricting fat more.  In other words, which poison should i pick?  I am quite fat right now, with a rubber ducky around my 6 pack.

Re restricting carbs or fats - both. Sit down and work out how many calories you should be eating a day. If you don't know, get a good estimate and work with that. Take 15-20% off that to get a caloric deficit and you're left with your daily caloric goal. Say it's 2000kcal.

Next work out how much protein you should be eating - say it's 150g (1g per pound of lean mass). That means 600cal of your intake is gone towards protein, so you're left with 1400cal to split over fats and carbs. That's the only restriction that matters, how you split them up is UP TO YOU. If you need a good amount of fats in the morning so you feel full thru out the day, go for it. If you need more carbs at night to sleep better, then just do that, it'll do the job just fine.

Once you've worked out your calories and macros, draw up a breakfast, lunch and dinner. And choose foods you actually enjoy but fit your macros and calories. Some people pick super healthy foods they hate, and then they invariably find themselves avoiding sticking to them, avoid that. If you hate oatmeal don't bother, find something else you like. Then eat that every day. Sure it's boring and monotonous, but it will work. After a few months you'll have good results to show for it without needing to do anything fancy.

If you'd prefer to freestyle it as you go, measure your calories and make sure you dont go over your daily limit - that can work for some ppl too, but i've never tried that myself so I can't say much about it.

Don't fall into the trap of picking a huge deficit and then finding your workouts suck and you can't lift what you want - it's possible to progress while cutting just aim for 1-2lb weight loss per week and be dedicated (80% compliance over 3 months is better than 100% dedication that only lasts for 5 days ). Good luck get ripped man.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #437 on: October 27, 2012, 12:14:22 pm »
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Asymmetric soreness in lower body. Left glute and hamstring more than right. It's odd. It's kind of disturbing because it resembles my old chronic sciatica symptoms. I think it's because I haven't been jumping regularly, and now whenever I jump it bothers something. This happened earlier in the year too but as I was jumping and playing ball regularly, it went away and seems i've got that imbalance back from quitting basketball/jumping. I should do jumps regularly I think, even if they are submax, maybe throw them into workouts with a bit more frequency but little volume.

I had this dream last night that when I jump, I don't use both of my legs, and in the dream I used my right leg too and I was sailing over the rim dunking with ease. Was a cool dream, note to self think about jumping with both legs see if it helps lol.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #438 on: October 27, 2012, 05:26:00 pm »
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were they running double-leg jumps? when i first started practicing them a lot i got asymmetrical soreness/aches because i always plant LR. left hip ended up feeling wonky. but it went away with time and i do enough bilateral stuff that i'm not worried about it.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #439 on: October 28, 2012, 02:52:30 am »
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were they running double-leg jumps? when i first started practicing them a lot i got asymmetrical soreness/aches because i always plant LR. left hip ended up feeling wonky. but it went away with time and i do enough bilateral stuff that i'm not worried about it.

Thank you. I don't do max running jumps on concrete, it's asking for ankle trouble. All I did were a few double leg SVJs. I get what you are saying though, if i was doing running jumps I do prefer to plant right leg first and then jump off left leg and it's important that to have ruled that out as the source of trouble since I didn't do any rvjs.

I think even in squats i'm left side dominant, not so much in front squats which are more symmetric but in backsquats. i have been working consciously on pushing with the right leg in backsquats because it's usually happy to just chill and go along for the ride given by the left leg. I might be unconsciously doing the same thing in jumping too. I wonder.

Last night I did my usual array of hip, glute and ham stretches which I do whenever i'm having problems. This morning I feel much better thankfully. I should probably do a few jumps regularly now to loosen up the imbalance and keep things nice and mobile. And regular stretches might not be a bad idea either, i tend to stop doing them when things feel good.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- w4d7
« Reply #440 on: October 28, 2012, 11:37:21 am »
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Training (Active recov)
FS 5x20, 5x40, 3x60, 3x70, 1x72.5
BS 5x60, 1x80
BP 8x20, 5x50, 5x55
CU 2x5xBW

BW=79.2kg

Nice and light and easy. Next week add 1 set to each exercise.

Added the 4th training day. So now i don't go longer than 1 day between squats. No more than 1 day between presses and chinups either (i will be doing them every workout). More frequency = better recovery, less soreness, CNS fatigue and beating up joints. Hopefully better gains too. We'll see.

My goal was to use 70% on the lifts, but that was kinda too heavy today for some reason. I mean I could have done it of course (it's ONLY 70%) but i didn't wanna push it at the expense of tomorrows workout which is important and this one is just a recovery one.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 11:49:54 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #441 on: October 29, 2012, 05:46:14 am »
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Feel weak today, i'm drinking water to try to hydrate better but think i might have to go get some gatorade from the shops. Have had about 2L of water so far. Will probably work out late tonight, i just wanna make sure im well hydrated first. Life is so much easier when you are downing a gallon of milk a day, would probably hydrate like a motherfucker with all that sodium, potassium, calcium, carbs and of course the gallon of fluid itself. But I can't drink much milk right now so will have to settle for sugar water instead.

Once i'm nice and lean i'll be able to handle a lot more calories without getting fat. This cut has really opened my eyes how over weight I was with respect to my lean mass. I had no business at all hitting ANY caloric surplus while weighing 85+kg - that was just a recipe for getting fat as fuck. But once i drop my weight down to a lean 10%, i'll have a better p-ratio and partioning of surpluses will better for mass gain. Realistically I shuda been around 73-75kg all along.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- w5d1
« Reply #442 on: October 29, 2012, 12:00:26 pm »
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Training
FS 1x90, 1x100, 1x105, 1x110, 3x1x102.5, 2x1x100, 4x95, 4x92.5, 4x90
BS 2x90, 1x100, 3x102.5, 5x95, 6x92.5, 7x90 (PR), 10x85 (PR)
BP 1x75, 6x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 5x72.5 (WG), 5x70, 6x67.5
CU 6,6,6,5 x BW
ABZ - 3 sets of ab pulldowns

Hydrated a lot. Over 3L of fluid thru the day. Gatorade worked like magic. Water just goes thru me but gatorade stuck around. Milk too.

FS notes:
Kinda forgot how to do front squats but rediscovered it again on the last set. It's go forward (paradoxical rite? you think the opposite). but at the bottom bring it back into the ankles (my cue). Remember this for next time ffs!  Otherwise good session. Was weak as a kitten but I made do.

BS notes:
Form is getting better every time. I'm tapping into some newbie gains here w/ new form, watch this space!

BP notes:
going thru the motions.. my chest has gotten flabby since i stopped doing heavy wige grips so remember to go heavy on friday with those.

Chins notes:
Just clocking up the volume
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- thoughts on athleticism and front squatting
« Reply #443 on: October 31, 2012, 06:11:57 am »
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Thinking about front squats and athleticism and my experience with the lift so far. I think a good minimum for an athlete might be 1.5*BW - in fact that's probably too easy because a good athlete would be around 10-12% bodyfat and 1.5*BW isn't a big deal. But like I said minimum.

A 80kg athlete who is lean would need to front squat 120kg at a minimum, i'd say 140kg or 3 plates would be a decent front squat for a lean 80kg athlete. Incidentally 140kg is 1.75xBW which I have put down as my training goal for the medium term.

While i am around 80kg right now, that minimal goal of 120kg is just beyond my current reach annoyingly.  But i'm not a lean athlete, im a fat unathletic guy who happens to weigh an overfat 80kg. If I was 10-12% my bodyweight with my lean mass I would be around 74-77kg (guessing here) and that would mean a 1.5BW minimum front squat would be in the range 110-115kg, which I have done already. So if I keep my current maxes and diet down to ~75kg, i'd easily have a minimal 1.5BW front squat but because i'm overfat it counts against me because for my current weight the minimal front squat is just out of my reach.

It's interesting how good the front squat is in informing me about my (lack of) athleticism. I don't think 120kg is hard by any means for someone my bodyweight, it should be easy for someone who is a lean 80kg. That's why I call it minimum.

If I was to speculate - a great athlete would have an easy 2BW front squat. For someone lean and 80kg -  160kg sounds about right at a minimum and this goes up to 180kg for a 90kg athlete. A 90kg lean athlete would be a genetic beast though and 180kg would be nothing for such a person but a great long term goal for someone who wishes to be athletic..

Going forward supposing I finish the cut to 10% in the next 2-3 months and i'm then 75kg @ 10%, front squatting around 115-120kg. That's an easy 1.5bw going on 1.6bw. So not a bad place to start gaining athleticism (as opposed to shedding unathleticism by cutting bodyfat). So now i have great insulin sensitivity thanks to low bodyfat, i'm allowed to gain a solid 5kg of mass while staying at or below my max bodyweight limit of 80kg. I can train at a surplus as opposed to the deficit i've been on for the last 6-12 months. Gaining 20-25kg on my front squat while allowing up to 5kg weight gain seems like a sure bet. I mean if anything I'd say it should be fucking trivial really - challenging would be adding that 20kg to the bar while trying to stay under 77kg say.

The thing is though im not going to fall into the trap of gaining a lot of bodyweight quickly just to easily progress my lifts. Because it's utterly useless to me to gain 20-25kg on my squat if it means having gaining 5kg of fat. That doesn't help my athleticism in any way - and then getting rid of that extra fat would take a lot of cutting which i would rather avoid. I think my chances are good of being ~13% bodyfat if I do gain 5kg from 75kg to 80kg provided I gain them over a period of a few months rather than weeks. My main goal wont even be to gain mass - it's to become more athletic, ie to push the lifts up while staying lean. In future i will take a break from strength and athleticism and train purely for mass gain - i would like to be a lean 85kg one day and there is a place for mass specific training. But in the meantime, i'd prefer to be a maximally strong 77kg front squatting over 140kg than a fat 80kg @ 15% bodyfat with the same lifts.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #444 on: October 31, 2012, 09:32:00 am »
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Future bulk layout

Back to my plans for world domination, one heavy single at a time..

this is a better, actually conservative one



What I dont like about it though is how it's linear. Linear is probably bullshit. The human body doesn't work in a neat straight line. Maybe in reality the first 10kg on the bar will go up with only 1kg of bodyweight gain. Or maybe they'll need 3kg, and the last 15kg will need 1kg. Who knows how it goes, it sure doesn't have to be linear and i am betting it won't be for me.

But if at any stage I find myself slipping away from that dark line - it means i'm getting unathletic. So at least it gives a way of checking if i'm on the right track or not. So long as i am on or above the line, all is good. If I fall below, it is probably worth getting my bodyfat in check. I'll be updating the graph with my actual numbers as I go along.

If I am being optimistic i might be finishing the cut at 75kg @ 10% and perhaps  with a front squat 120+kg. That would put me with a starting ratio of 1.6 which makes the above the graph rather pessimistic but we'll what happens once i've finished the cut. It's rather dubious to conjecture so far out from 10% when my PR is only 115kg. But suppose I chance upon the magic combination of training and the heavy singles carry me all the way to 120x5x1 then it might just be a reality. A girl can surely dream.

And that's all i'm saying on that topic.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:15:12 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #445 on: October 31, 2012, 11:39:00 am »
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Hey how come it seems like you are focusing on front squat rather than back squat?  Is it because you are more posterior chain dominant rather than quad?

Im just a much better front squatter and a poor backsquatter. I like front squats more than back squats. Both to perform and to watch. I have a bad sticking point with back squats which prevents me from doing them well with a lot of weight. When my form breaks down with backsquats with even moderate weights, its very dangerous and unsafe. I train alone and even with limit front squats I can fail safely without risking injury, just ride them down to the pins, no problems. With backsquats i'd get bent over it would put my back in a precarious position prone to injury, no thank you, esp when i've got a history of chronic sciatica behind me that I don't want to invoke anew.

The other thing is my fs and bs are very close together. Some people can handle a lot of weight on the back than front, i am not one of those. So I don't gain much from putting the bar on my back as opposed to on my chest. I lose some, form and safety, so the trade off just isn't there for me to focus on backsquats.

Lance thinks my backsquat turns itno a squat morning because i learnt to backsquat badly (hip driven) so front squat acts to remedy that tendency. I have found him to be right about this after focusing on front squats and seeing my squat mornings turn into nicer back squats.

Re pc dominant vs quads, honestly i have no clue. lance thinks i need more quad strength and i'm inclined to agree with him because i've noticed my quads not powering me out of the latter half of squats (both fs and bs). And my hamstring strength sucks for that matter, which is another reason i do backsquats - as an assistance exercise to help strenghten and build hamstrings & lower back. If i were to guess i'd say im very glute dominant, i power out of the hole easily.

did i mention i love front squats? lol. i think they're a purer exercise, a better test of athleticism. I've heard guys like Joe Defranco and the venerable yo elliot say the same thing so it must be true  8)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 12:23:29 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #446 on: October 31, 2012, 11:41:49 am »
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the only pure exercise is the snatch. all other exercises are unclean to some degree.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- w5d3
« Reply #447 on: October 31, 2012, 11:53:59 am »
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Training
FS 1x100, 4x93.5, 5x90
BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x105, 5x97.5, 6x95, 7x90
WCU 3x97.5 (+15kg), 2x100 (+17.5kg), 2x98.75 (+16.25kg), 1x102.5 (+20kg, PR!!!), 1x103.75 (+21.25kg PR!), 4x92.5 (+10kg), 4x90 (+7.5kg), 5x87.5 (+5kg), 5x85 (+2.5kg)

BW: 80kg

Decided to save myself for fridays front squats heavy singles so only did 3 sets of not heavy front squats. Finished with some backsquats which were not as good as I would have liked considering i wasn't exhausted from front squatting as usual.

FS notes:
Form sucked, didn't have a clue what I was doing today.

BS notes:
I started off well with the first warmup feeling very light on backsquats (probably cos i am a lot fresher than usual). But i'm really disappointed with backsquats. The depth just wasn't there today. I dont know why, i will repeat these sets next time.

Chins notes:
Got the +20kg chinup today, feels good man. Was 100% strict and not all that hard. I will probably start doing singles on this lift too. I reckon i am not far from 105kg w/ singles, and in a few months time I can expect to be close to my goal of 120kg chinups (+2x20kg plates).

Bring on friday, looking forward to doing front squat singles with 110kg!!
« Last Edit: October 31, 2012, 11:58:04 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #448 on: October 31, 2012, 12:13:58 pm »
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the only pure exercise is the snatch. all other exercises are unclean to some degree.

I would agree that the snatch is the purest exercise. I would argue the front squat is the purest squat though. Well maybe just edged out by the squat morning..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkK9-mnDAy4</a>

A nice deep upright front squat is a pretty sight.

compare and contrast

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_1OgTgYqM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mU_1OgTgYqM</a>

uggers
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #449 on: October 31, 2012, 12:43:39 pm »
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I like the front squat myself ( although i cant get it right , maybe now with lifting shoes ) , and i've also read that you get the form right ( which is the main problem ) its more 'functional' than back squat.
Having said that, the compare videos are terribly biased, you can't compare a submax 5-reps 200kg raw front squat with powerlifting meet sutied 350+ kg back squats.
Any day's video of your FS vs BS would be convincing and unbiased enough! ;)
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?