Author Topic: chasing athleticism  (Read 928315 times)

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #510 on: December 05, 2012, 09:28:27 am »
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I am personally locking my knees and even trying to actively hyperextending them (I know, sounds terrible) and also am doing the same thing with the hips (going for a posteriorly rotate pelvis at the top) - these two things help me really squeeze the VMOs and glutes, a thing that normally doesn't happen if I don't actively think about it. If I'm just doing "normal" reps these things don't occur. It's a pretty big difference for me (I can feel the VMOs and glutes do work doing this).
I might be misunderstanding you (probable) but are you saying that if you consciously exaggarate the movement at the end of the cocentric you get better activation in VMOS and glutes? I'll have to try that out and see for myself.

Quote
Obviously I'm not overdoing it or really exaggerating it to the point of injury, and I'm usually doing it with lower weights. You won't see me think about this doing 1RM stuff.
Interesting. Yeah, it would have to be an effect seen over volume since it's such a small part of the ROM.


I read that as people diet down to lower bodyfat - their muscle fibres transition into slow twitch ones. Now that's something I don't want to happen - so I should keep the sprints and jumps in while cutting. But what i'm wondering is, maybe when they studied this thing, they were studying people who did a lot of traditional "fat burn" training like slow steady cardio. If you spend hours on the treadmill a day, of course that will mean your muscles adapt to that sort of activity. Doesn't necessarily mean cutting bodyfat itself is automatically the mechanism for the fast->slow twitch changes.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #511 on: December 05, 2012, 09:43:12 am »
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^^^ Interesting. Where is T0ddday to explain this to us? Intuitively you'd think that losing BW wouldn't have a deleterious effect on muscle fiber composition as long as you're consistently training for strength and/or explosiveness. No idea whether that's actually true in the real world, though.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Raptor

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #512 on: December 05, 2012, 11:13:13 am »
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Actually, training brings you more into the IIA realm of more endurance (vs IIB) - sitting on your butt all day long gives you more IIB than training (probably also does doing very low volume/very high intensity (tension) singles and stuff like that).

What's also interesting is that only the type II fibers actually hypertrophy, otherwise we'd see those muscular marathon runners with huge type I muscles.

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- w2d5
« Reply #513 on: December 07, 2012, 04:46:54 am »
+1
Training
FS 1x100, 1x107.5, 1x112.5, 1x117.5 (PR)
BP 1x77.5, 1x82.5, 1x87.5, 0x92.5, 3x80

BS 3x107.5, 3x105, 4x102.5
WCU 2x84.5, 1x89.5, 1x99.5, 1x104.5, 1x102, 2x99.5, 4x94.5, 5x89.5, 5x87, 9xBW (PR)
Jumps (5 svjs, about 5 double step jumps)

HIIT sprints 06:10:13

BW: 77kg/170lb

FS notes:
Warmed up rusty. But finally a new 1RM PR breakthrough. That means i'm above 1.5BW now!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoCF-PbHlZ0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoCF-PbHlZ0</a>

Form was iffy - and I know exactly why - it's a lack of quad strength. I know the form breakdown mode very well, all i'm lacking is a strategy to attack it with. Andrew gave me an idea earlier in the log to use heavy partials - that might help. Provided quads get stronger in the next few weeks, I believe I can get 120kg @ ~75kg with good form by the end of the year.

BP notes:
I came closer at getting the 92.5 max this week but it's still a bit too heavy for me. I won't try it again next week, instead i'll try getting some more reps in with a weight that's slightly below there.

BS notes:
Good form. Happy with backsquat!

Jump notes:
I am about 6" away from touching the top of the square on the outdoor rim. This isn't too bad considering i haven't jumped in months. So I haven't lost much if at all, if anything i'm jumping slightly better than before. But I think once i'm done cutting (as in a legit 10% bodyfat) - I will be some 5kg (of pure lard) lighter than i am currently. I'll also be able to train jump more seriously and will be able to eat better etc. So these are all promising signs that i'm on the right track.

« Last Edit: December 07, 2012, 10:16:12 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #514 on: December 07, 2012, 09:37:09 am »
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that ain't just quads, broseph. look at how much your upper back rounds on the concentric.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #515 on: December 07, 2012, 10:12:50 am »
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that ain't just quads, broseph. look at how much your upper back rounds on the concentric.

I think the causality goes the other way. insufficient quad strength leads to upper back rounding. Fix the quad weakness, fix the rounding. You can argue my upper back rounds, which causes the breakdown of form. But I know from being under the bar that it was my quads being close to limit effort that my body compensates by allowing back to round, making it easier to bring the bar into my body using lower back strength, and then once the bar is back into my body (and raised slightly), i push my glutes thru. This whole thing bypasses my quads because they couldn't do the job in the first place. But we'll see how it goes, if i'm wrong then quad work wont make much difference and will be back to square 1.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

LBSS

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #516 on: December 07, 2012, 10:16:10 am »
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interesting analysis. you're obviously in a better position to know than i am.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #517 on: December 07, 2012, 10:34:14 am »
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interesting analysis. you're obviously in a better position to know than i am.

Yeah I think quad weakness is the cause, and upper back rounding the effect.

It's one thing which really bugs me about my front squats. It feels like this whole time i've been doing them i've been cheating my way through and even though I set out to build leg strength by them, i've just build glute strength or something instead.

But i'm wrong, because yesterday when I tried out my swimming shorts for the first time since last summer, they have got real tight around the thighs, so much so that I can't even walk properly when I wear them. And my quads bulge out which never used to happen before. If you think maybe you just got fat - well no, because i'm some 20 pounds lighter now so it's the muscular kind of girth not the starting strength one.

I know how a good front squat should feel like (real leg dominant) and it just doesn't happen often. Could probably count on my fingertips on one hand the reps which i've felt 'hitting' my quads til now. I even get the feeling I get better quad involvement out of my more modest backsquats than I do from my front squats, even though the front squat weight is heavier than the bs weight!

That's why I would like to try out some SSB squats one day, see if they hit my quads better. And if you are thinking 'then why don't you just do backsquats' - it's because i'm built wrong for backsquats, hit this awful sticking point halfway up and either near enough snap my spine squatmorning or grind out a slow difficult rep. But it just sounds like im making excuses sometimes.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #518 on: December 09, 2012, 12:04:32 am »
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Body comp thoughts
When I started cutting at 87kg (190lb) I thought by the time I got to 80kg (175lb) I'd be ripped. Then I got there and it wasn't the case. So I said, surely by 75kg (165lb) it will happen. And as i'm quickly approaching 75kg I realise it's not going to happen there either! I'm thinking it might be closer to 70kg (155lb). I can't imagine needing to go under 70kg, that must be a safe lower bound, but lets see what happens. I'm getting used to disappointment.

My waist is now just under 33" and I suspect given my build, i'll need to look at achieving a 30" or smaller waist for single digit bodyfat. So I probably have months of cutting left to do. This sucks obviously. But i'm satisfied knowing there will be the light at the end of the tunnel, i'm just not anywhere near it yet.

Oh and the reason why I'm looking at 30" is the following table:

American Council on Exercise
Bodyfat %   Abdomen (in.)   
0%   26.58
1%   26.92
2%   27.27   Essential Fat
3%   27.63
4%   28.00
5%   28.38
6%   28.77   Athletes
7%   29.17
8%   29.58
9%   30.00
10%   30.44
11%   30.88
12%   31.34
13%   31.81
14%   32.29   Fitness
15%   32.79
16%   33.30
17%   33.82

generated using http://www.chaosreigns.com/gym/waistfromfat.html - i put in 14" for neck and 75" for height. Would be interesting to see what other people get using the calculator for their current waist and expected waist at 10%?


funk master flex
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 12:13:18 am by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

AGC

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #519 on: December 09, 2012, 01:16:24 am »
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With 41cm neck and 179cm height I got:

0%   72.49
1%   73.33
2%   74.17   Essential Fat
3%   75.06
4%   75.95
5%   76.86
6%   77.83   Athletes
7%   78.79
8%   79.78
9%   80.82
10%   81.86

80cm waist so ~8-9%, mostly in line with other online calcs I've used.

vag

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #520 on: December 09, 2012, 11:19:05 am »
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Surveys FTW!!!  :highfive:

Neck = ~16'' ( 40,5 cm ) / Height = 72'' ( ~183cm )

10%   31.90
15%   34.18
20%   36.78

Current waist = ~35,7'' ( 90,5cm ) => ~18%  :ffffffuuuuuu:
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

ahotzo

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #521 on: December 09, 2012, 01:53:55 pm »
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Neck = ~16/ Height = 67

0%   27.47
1%   27.78
2%   28.10   Essential Fat
3%   28.43
4%   28.77
5%   29.12
6%   29.47   Athletes
7%   29.84
8%   30.21
9%   30.60
10%   30.99
11%   31.40
12%   31.82
13%   32.25
14%   32.69   Fitness
15%   33.14

Current Waist = ~ 32.5 => 13-14%...seems pretty accurate, thats what I would have estimated

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #522 on: December 09, 2012, 11:20:55 pm »
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Thank you for the data guys. It looks like it uses neck circumference as a proxy for muscularity and waist circumference for fatness. If you have an inch more of neck circumference it affords you an extra inch of waist circumference for the same bodyfat. Interesting stuff.
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat

Mikey

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Re: chasing athleticism
« Reply #523 on: December 10, 2012, 02:08:20 am »
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Waist 33.5 inches
Neck 16.75 inches
Bodyfat- 13%
"IMO, It didn't happen if it's not on vid/official"- adarqui

It's easier to keep up than it is to catch up...

entropy

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Re: chasing athleticism -- w3d1
« Reply #524 on: December 10, 2012, 06:13:29 am »
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Training
FS 1x107.5, 4x100, 5x95

BP 6x77.5, 6x75, 6x72.5, 6x70, 6x67.5, 6x65 (last 3 wg)

BS 3x90, 2x100, 3x102.5, 4x100, 2x97.5, 10x60

BW: 77.1kg/169.98lb  (quietly slipped into 160s -- reverse hypertrophy here I come)

FS notes:
Couldn't for the life of me figure out why almost every single rep including warmups had bad form. Were my shoe laces too tight? Was it the different pair of shorts? Was some muscle (group) not fully recovered from last week? Very frustrating.

BP notes:
Struggling with that top set but I finally got 6 this week. But it was so difficult that I may as well have failed it! The good thing about this session was getting 36 reps in. Decent amount of volume.

BS notes:
Delaying this to the 3rd (!) session made a big difference. I think also because I warmed up starting from the bar rather than my usual practice of going straight from FSs to BS starting with 90kg. Whatevers. Was still shit, couldn't get 6 reps at all. I didn't court failure though. Anyway, hopefully i've done enough to put some carbs into my legs all the same.


Session 1: Incredibly shitty workout. I guess i've had a good run lately, lots of PRs while cutting. In hindsight I might have erred by not taking the carb reload today. I have been feeling pretty awful, tired and my brain feels sluggish inside my scull. I guess that was a sign i'm carb depleted or whatever but I wanted to soldier on for another week. Nevermind. I'll take on wednesday.

I cut the workout short, will have some bread and try again later tonight to backsquat and bench. If i have time and weather permits, hiit sprints as well.

Session 2: I decided just to do the carb reload today. Why not? I've been eating bread like it's going out of fashion. So good.



I think there were 8, 10 or 12 in the whole pack. I didn't pay attention. But looking online each one is 16g of cho, 2.8g pro, 0.7g fat - so pretty great for a good clean carb reload.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 12:26:06 pm by entropy »
Goals: Cutting to 6-8% bodyfat