Author Topic: Dreyth's New Journal  (Read 321057 times)

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Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #630 on: January 30, 2016, 11:31:08 am »
+2
good job. the heaviest 4+reps volumes i did was at 385lbx6-8reps, 20-40reps/workout.  i cannot recover fast enough after this weight.
spend time with that 385lb. the 405+ for volumes burn you out so fast.

I am only doing a single top set of 3 reps, twice a week. Do you still think that'll burn me out fast? My volume sets are at 325 right now.

Quote
your svj sucks :uhhhfacepalm:

hahaha

now lets see your damn RVJ already  :uhcomeon:
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vag

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #631 on: January 30, 2016, 12:23:40 pm »
+1
About the hangtime-vert calculation, i have studied it a bit at some time. With experimental data too ( measured jumps filmed at 120fps ).
My conclusion is that you need to add the flatfoot vs on-tip-of-toes measurement, which would be around 5''.
That brings your specific SVJ to around 35'' , which agrees to the VJB SVJ calculator AND to the heels height that i see.

PS1 : That has nothing to do with the knee bend though, listen to the pros, you could make it even higher.
PS2 : Here is the link to that 'study' i did : http://www.adarq.org/strength-power-reactivity-speed-discussion/about-the-hangtime-based-vertical-jump-calculators/
I think i reposted it here? or was it another journal? Sorry if i am repeating myself, i think it will ease your 'low' SVJ frustration.
PS3 : Nothing beats the 'highest touch - standing reach' measurement, obviously.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #632 on: January 30, 2016, 12:39:16 pm »
0
^^ Really? Damn! I don't think I have a 35" SVJ yet though, that's pretty high. I think I have to try touching a measured object to see if I should be including the flatfooted part. I'll see how high I can get up to the rim today. I may be disappointed though; my squat:bw ratio is the highest it's ever been, but I have very little movement efficiency right now so I'm not sure how high i'll jump. I also have no clue how much movement efficiency affects my SVJ. It DOES affect my RVJ a ton though.

As for the knee bend, I'll try different things and see what happens. But this is important, and it drives me nuts and I have to say it. It's slightly relevant:

High vert is not a function of low GCT per se. Do not try to consciously lower your GCT.
High vert is a function of GCT is a function of POWER.

Your GCT's are lowered by increasing POWER, not by physically trying to stay on the ground less by means of anything else, like lessening knee bend.


Similarly:
A deep knee bend means you have more time to apply force to the ground and therefore jump higher right?
Well what if a deep knee bend is a function of not enough power? you're still ammortizing in a sense...
Perhaps shallow knee bend is a function of higher power, because the legs are able to reverse the countermovement instantly! This must be the case for the 50" jumpers that barely bend their knees.

Somewhere in between the two will be the optimal knee bend for everyone. But the question is: should we consciously try to change knee bend amount? Or should we just do what happens naturally, and assume that knee bend amount is a function of power?

Well hey, maybe if knee bend amount IS a function of power, is that still optimal? (I find it crazy how people can snatch more if the beginning of the movement isn't as fast as possible, but rather, the second part of it is).




edit; @vag, from your post:

Quote
What seemed to work was use the hangtime calculator measuring the toes-off-to-touchdown hangtime, and then add the 'reach on toes - reach flatfoo
I measured 30-31" from heels off to toe touchdown. if i measure from toes off to toe touchdown, then I take away 4 frames. Instead of 48 frames, I now have 44 frames / 60FPS = 0.733sec or.... 25-26" vertical. Add the 5" correction and I'm back at 30-31" dammit.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 03:43:23 pm by Dreyth »
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LBSS

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #633 on: January 30, 2016, 12:53:41 pm »
0
Irritating comment re: English writing: "P.S." stands for "postscript." So if you want to add another after your initial P.S., you'd go to P.P.S. (post-postscript), then P.P.P.S. (post-post-postscript), and so on.

Sorry vag, especially if you knew that already. Couldn't help myself.  :-*

W/r/t trying to change the amount of knee bend: SVJ is a learned skill like any other movement, if a fairly simple one. Everyone will have a different optimal amount of knee bend, forward lean, etc., based on their structure. But that doesn't mean you can't try to add depth to your technique with submax practice and then draw on it when you max out.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 12:55:50 pm by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

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https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #634 on: January 30, 2016, 01:13:35 pm »
0
W/r/t trying to change the amount of knee bend: SVJ is a learned skill like any other movement, if a fairly simple one. Everyone will have a different optimal amount of knee bend, forward lean, etc., based on their structure. But that doesn't mean you can't try to add depth to your technique with submax practice and then draw on it when you max out.

Agreed! I'll be experimenting today.
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T0ddday

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #635 on: January 30, 2016, 05:44:48 pm »
0
Wow. Very interesting convo.  Im on my phone in between training clients so i cant add much now... but this is a cool topic.  Ill just say a few things...

1) trying to change knee bend consciously will not work for you in the short term.  That is if you test again trying for knee bend you will jump lower.  This is true for all but extreme beginners.  You have skill in your current movement pattern... LBSS is right that you could possibly fool w it and practice a lot and get gains over a longer time scale.  This may work but isnt necessary... there is an article about andrew wiggins who has a 40 inch SVJ w zero knee bend - so there is more than one way to skin this cat...

2) Vag is right about hangtime calculators.  In general these underestimate.  But also realize we all have exaggerated verticals...  Even if you measure reach by fully dislocating shoulder  (which isnt how they test in the nba) your dynamic reach in the air can allow you to stretch an extra inch or two... so even if you only raise your center of mass by 30 inches you can reach 31 or 32 with a full dynamic stretch of the arm.  This is legit because you ARE reaching 32" inches above your standing reach... which is all that matters. 

Additionally I dont understand why people use hangtime from a full jump for video estimates... your just adding error by doing the whole jump rather than the fall...  an easy estimate can be done by either counting frames or just downloading v1golf or another app that adds timing to the video.  Simply do this.  Film a jump where you try to touch a max height target.  Go to the frame where you are highest (touching the target) now time the distance it takes for your butt to go back down to its resting height.  Now take the time and multiply it like so: t×t×4.9.  Thats your height in meters. 

Ps. Basically a .5 second fall is a 48 inch jump.  A 0.4 second fall is a 30 inch jump.  Your somewhere between those two.

Pps. IMO the jump you posted looks better than 30. I dont know about 35 but i would say your estimate seems like an underestimate.  Def not an overestimate.


vag

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #636 on: January 31, 2016, 05:09:11 am »
0
LBSS: Never knew that, interesting. I knew it meant post script, it means the same here, but here we use counting for more than one. Classic error, translating your language to another one directly, it doesn't work like that.

T0ddday: Great point about the shoulder hyperextension. Something similar happens to spine. ESPN dealed with it at some time at this sports science series IIRC. It differs from person to person too. But even at the same person, each part of the body hyperextends/lengthens differently during the violent act of jumping, giving different maximum vertical displacements. Scientifically speaking, the 'true' vertical displacement your legs are able to provide should be measured at a point below the spine, probably in the pelvis.
Target training paces (min/km), calculated from 5K PR 22:49 :
Easy run : 5:48
Tempo run : 4:50
VO2-max run :4:21
Speed form run : 4:02

---

it's the biggest trick in the run game.. go slow to go fast. it doesn't make sense until it smacks you in the face and you're like ....... wtf?

Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #637 on: January 31, 2016, 09:57:26 am »
+1
Lackluster update: ended up cancelling plans with friends to play basketball lol. I'll do more SVJ's on monday before lifting. I'll try deeper knee bends.

About the reaching up thing that T0ddday mentioned:
Another factor is that if I jump high and reach with my right arm, my body shifts to the left a little so my shoulder/elbow/wrist/fingertips are lined up "north/south" moreso than before. Sure when you do a standing reach this happens to some extent, but not completely as both of your feet have to be flatfooted.

A real vertical jump height is measured by how much you move your center of mass. But what if we have two people who both have a reach of 96", but one of them has size 9 feet and the other size 14? If they both have a highest touch of 120", is the one with way bigger feet really jumping as high as the other? Sure the difference is minimal, maybe 1.5" but... it bothers me dammit. I guess "vertical leap" isn't clearly defined is it.
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Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #638 on: February 01, 2016, 12:24:57 am »
0
Ate a TON this weekend and spent way too much money on food :(
Pooped tnite and then weighed myself at 203.8lbs!!! Havent been this heavy since January 2011 five years ago when i was 210lbs... Took another poop and brought it down to 202.8lbs. I know i still have food in me plus a bunch of glycogen stored from increased food/caeb intake. Also a lot of water weight, i can even feel it in my face.

Cutting down to 193lbs by March 1st. I'll probably be down to 196-197 in the morning a few days from dropping glycogen and water, so this wont be too difficult.

I know i'll crush 385x3 on the squats tomorrow though ;)
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Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #639 on: February 01, 2016, 09:37:38 am »
+2
Week 96
Quote
Friday - 02/05/16

-= Workout Log =-

Cable Rows

Lateral Raises

Pull ups

Ab Pulldowns

Rear Delt W Flyes

Worked out at my friends gym. Did random shit in addition to the usual, but even the usual was screwed up with rest times and a bunch of stuff. Don't feel like typing it and don't remember it either. Damn i hate working out with other people. Fucks everything up. No I don't want to do your workout. I'll do mine and you do yours.
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Merrick

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #640 on: February 01, 2016, 11:55:33 am »
+1
Week 96
Quote
Friday - 02/05/16

-= Workout Log =-

Cable Rows

Lateral Raises

Pull ups

Ab Pulldowns

Rear Delt W Flyes

Worked out at my friends gym. Did random shit in addition to the usual, but even the usual was screwed up with rest times and a bunch of stuff. Don't feel like typing it and don't remember it either. Damn i hate working out with other people. Fucks everything up. No I don't want to do your workout. I'll do mine and you do yours.

Yeah I hate it too lol.  Most people don't understand keeping to the routine you have planned out perfectly with set rest times and everything. 

"Try this exercise man, just try it, it's great!"

I don't give a shit about your exercise! lolll

LBSS

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #641 on: February 01, 2016, 12:11:31 pm »
+1
people can come work out with me if they are willing to do exactly what i was planning to do anyway. it would actually be great to have a workout partner who was down to do the same routine as me.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Merrick

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #642 on: February 01, 2016, 12:20:10 pm »
0
people can come work out with me if they are willing to do exactly what i was planning to do anyway. it would actually be great to have a workout partner who was down to do the same routine as me.

Well that's different.  I would love that too lol

Raptor

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #643 on: February 01, 2016, 12:42:30 pm »
0
Yeah when I used to train with Nightfly we would pretty much do the same thing, except for the weights used. But even these were pretty close.

Dreyth

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Re: Dreyth's New Journal
« Reply #644 on: February 01, 2016, 01:48:29 pm »
0
people can come work out with me if they are willing to do exactly what i was planning to do anyway. it would actually be great to have a workout partner who was down to do the same routine as me.

That would be really nice. I don't know if I'll ever enjoy that lol.

I've done my routine with him and he still got in the way. Others too. I do a lot of warm up sets and rest an okay amount between them. They don't like to do all that. Even then, if I want to rest 2min between my squats, they'll want to go again before me and then by the time I have to squat they'll still be squatting.

Even worse is yep, doing their exercises and shit. And worse yet, is messing up the order. I'll do all your lifts when I'm done with mine. No I don't want to do cable chest flyes before benching. I'll do them after benching, maybe, for a little. And no I don't want to do close grip bench press. Just regular. Maybe I'll do close grip after my regular benches.

And wtf is this? Why am I doing pyramid set?!?! They don't make sense! I'm tired as fuck for my 3RM now. We should do REVERSE pyramid sets if anything. :raging:
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