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FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2015, 12:20:18 am »
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My college Ultimate Frisbee season just recently ended, so I figured I might as well start posting my off-season training here and try to get some advice

BW: 187lbs.

Todays supplementation: Magnesium 500mg, L-Glutamine 1g, Creatine 5g, Multivit, 1.5g Fish Oil, Whey Protein 80g

Workout 1:
10 consecutive SVJ's, followed by a 40 yard sprint, 10 second jog
repeated for 4 sets with no breaks

Workout 2:(set x reps x weight lbs)
Full Squat:
1x5x225
1x5x245
1x5x265
1x2x265
2x5x245
RDL:
1x10x135
1x5x185
1x3x205

Gym closed about 40 mins after I came in so I had to cut my workout short

Some problems I am running into:
Can't find a good glute strength exercise: I don't have enough grip/back strength to do high weight Deadlifts, My gym has no GHR machine, and I don't want to look extremely gay doing barbell hip thrusts (just kidding, my gym has limited space and is always packed, so I don't have the space to do them). Any other good glute exercises? I usually end up doing single leg hip thrusts with my shoulders and feet on benches (at my dorm)
Is there a fast way to develop grip strength?
What are the best weight room exercises to stimulate arm pumping during sprints or jump windups?
Should I be trying to do my squats as fast as I can? I remember reading that faster squats translated to better vert gains.






vag

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2015, 05:34:17 am »
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Can't find a good glute strength exercise: I don't have enough grip/back strength to do high weight Deadlifts, My gym has no GHR machine, and I don't want to look extremely gay doing barbell hip thrusts (just kidding, my gym has limited space and is always packed, so I don't have the space to do them). Any other good glute exercises? I usually end up doing single leg hip thrusts with my shoulders and feet on benches (at my dorm)

Best glutes exercise out there is Bulgarian split squats. Next, i would say lunges and hip thrusts.


Is there a fast way to develop grip strength?

Grip strength training.


What are the best weight room exercises to stimulate arm pumping during sprints or jump windups?

I don't know, but you shouldn't do that in the weight room. Best way to get better arms efficiency at sprints and jumps = sprint and jump more.


Should I be trying to do my squats as fast as I can? I remember reading that faster squats translated to better vert gains.

No. You are doing squats to get stronger, so speed is irrelevant. Then you will want to express that bigger strength faster, so you will need to train RFD. Many ways to do that, one of them ( probably not the best though ) being fast squats. But you are at the first case now so don't bother.


Finally, a note: Your RDL is way too weak compared to your squat. Also RDL is not like full DL, you can bump the volume up a bit, don't ramp up to a heavy triple, keep doing sets in the 6-8 reps territory. But heavier than 135, 3x8 at 160-180-ish should be very doable for you. Start with ~160 and see how it goes.
woot

LBSS

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2015, 08:30:08 am »
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1. don't use gay as an insult. not a good look.
2. do "natural" GHRs, where you put your knees on a pad and stick your feet under something stable (or have someone hold them in place). if you can, you know, get over the gay panic of having another dude touch you. e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh9hiA65AW4
3. there are different kinds of grip strength, and a bajillion ways to work on it. DB shrugs, captains of crush, squeezing a tennis ball, pinching stacks of 10lb plates, whatever. just dedicate some time to it a couple of days a week.
4. hip thrusts and bridges are also a good way to build glute strength. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvBTGx5zu5I
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2015, 10:55:45 pm »
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Thanks for the comments guys, I really appreciate it!

1. don't use gay as an insult. not a good look.
You are right that was really inconsiderate and totally out of line


What are the best weight room exercises to stimulate arm pumping during sprints or jump windups?

I don't know, but you shouldn't do that in the weight room. Best way to get better arms efficiency at sprints and jumps = sprint and jump more.

So are you suggesting I don't do any upper body work at all in the weight room?

I found these neat guidelines written by an Olympic sprinter coach (in the subforum for sprints), so that's what I will use for now


...
Bench press (chest development)
The bench press forms a key part of the sprinter's upper-body workouts - although it must be said that the exercise can be over-done, especially if athletes becomes too concerned with what they can 'bench' rather than with why they are training: for speed. The bench primarily develops the pectorals and triceps but in a plane of movement that is not specific to the sprinting action. Don't regard the bench as the equivalent of the squat for the upper body; although there are positive strength gains, these are less specific to the sprinting action than squatting itself.

Sample part session:
Bench - 25 reps x 50kg, immediately followed by 25 press-ups. Two minutes recovery, then repeat 4-5 times. Two mins recovery, then same again, but with 40kg on the bar.

Shoulder press, upright rowing, bent-over rowing
Developing the deltoids, rhomboids and traps, these exercises, like the bench, will generally strengthen the muscles used in the sprinting action. Performing front and rear shoulder press variants will provide the greatest dividend since the deltoids and traps work to pull the arms both back and forwards, as in sprinting. Christie's athletes perform seated shoulder press, which prevents the legs giving any assistance to the exercise.

Sample part session:
Seated shoulder press - 15 x 40kg, immediately followed by 15 x upright rowing, immediately followed by 15 x bent-over rowing (all with the same bar loaded at 40kg). Two mins rest, and repeat as above up to 5 times

Dumbbell work
Dumbbells allow for a more symmetrical body development, since a weaker left arm cannot be overridden by a stronger right one, as can be the case when using barbells. For this part of the session, Braithwaite used various weight dumbbells - 15, 10 and 7.5kg. The combination of exercises involved sprint arm drives, alternate shoulder press and curls, all done in succession with about 20-30 reps of each exercise. Once again, 4-5 sets would be carried out.
...



Should I be trying to do my squats as fast as I can? I remember reading that faster squats translated to better vert gains.

No. You are doing squats to get stronger, so speed is irrelevant. Then you will want to express that bigger strength faster, so you will need to train RFD. Many ways to do that, one of them ( probably not the best though ) being fast squats. But you are at the first case now so don't bother.

Do I really have to choose between RFD and strength? Can I not do both?
Here's the article I was talking about

... I am not advocating psyching up for all sets and reps, the point is the intent of maximal bar speed.  Lifting with a premium on SPEED of the rep, not grinding out rep after rep, is alot more cns friendly and will give more carryover to athletic performance than lifting a heavy weight slowly, the time under tension alone will be much greater for the latter, causing much more fatigue and cns drain.  Explosive lifting is used by many as a recovery method, and it works very well in that way, in fact, a good way to deload from a heavy, low rep, maximal strength block is to perform an explosvie strength block and let the cns recover. 



Finally, a note: Your RDL is way too weak compared to your squat. Also RDL is not like full DL, you can bump the volume up a bit, don't ramp up to a heavy triple, keep doing sets in the 6-8 reps territory. But heavier than 135, 3x8 at 160-180-ish should be very doable for you. Start with ~160 and see how it goes.

Well, I believe the problem with my RDL is almost entirely with my grip strength. During my last workout I held on to 205 as long as I could (which I get is abysmally weak grip). I tried RDL again today and the only place it really felt challenging was my forearms. I don't really see a point in continuing with these small weights that aren't going to transfer to optimal gains (for my glutes and hams) because of my grip strength.
So for the time being I'm just going to stick to GHR's, hip thrusts and BSS and train my grip strength separately. Then maybe once I have well-developed forearms I'll transition to RDL's.

4/17 BW:188
Supplements:Magnesium 500mg, L-Glutamine 1g, Creatine 5g, Multivit, 1.5g Fish Oil, Whey Protein 80g

Workout:(set x reps x weight lbs)
Full Squat:
1x5x225
1x5x275
1x8x225 (explosive)
1x3x275
2x10x225 (explosive)

Dumbbell alternating chest press:
1x15x30 (each arm)
1x13x35 (each arm)
1x10x35 (each arm)

RDL:
1x10x135
2x8x185

Hip Thrusts:
1x10x185
1x5x185(right leg only)
1x5x185(left leg only)
1x8x235
2x10x275

Comments: Had to cut workout short because gym closed early today. Hip thrusts were really uncomfortable because of the way the bar pressed down on my pelvic crests. Felt completely fine after workout, then I drank my protein shake and wanted to throw up for half an hour, which felt terrible.

vag

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #49 on: April 18, 2015, 06:04:00 am »
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What are the best weight room exercises to stimulate arm pumping during sprints or jump windups?
I don't know, but you shouldn't do that in the weight room. Best way to get better arms efficiency at sprints and jumps = sprint and jump more.
So are you suggesting I don't do any upper body work at all in the weight room?

For god's shake NO. I made a point against windup-movement-specifity exercises. Of course you should work out upper body. Whatever you do will work, pick a bunch of exercises and a reps/sets scheme that you like and progress it. Bench, pullups/chinups, OHP , rows, the usual stuff. Just keep a push/pull balance. For example one day do bench ( push ) and pullups ( pull ). The other OHP ( push ) and rows ( pull ).



Should I be trying to do my squats as fast as I can? I remember reading that faster squats translated to better vert gains.
No. You are doing squats to get stronger, so speed is irrelevant. Then you will want to express that bigger strength faster, so you will need to train RFD. Many ways to do that, one of them ( probably not the best though ) being fast squats. But you are at the first case now so don't bother.
Do I really have to choose between RFD and strength? Can I not do both?

For god's shake NO again. Of course you could ( and should ) train both limit strength and RFD. My point was not to turn squats to speed(ish) squats, it would possibly compromise both, they would most probably be too light for strength training and too heavy for RFD. There is a time and a place for them too of course, but that would not be now imho. So do both but no in one drill. Do a fast exercise first and then your normal squats. That is a very common tactic, not only you train RFD, but that first fast exercise also potentiates and warms you up great for the 'slow and heavy' squats. Fast could be : jump squats, REA squats, speed squats, explosive box squats, push press, power cleans, power snatches, depth jumps, whatever you like.



Finally, a note: Your RDL is way too weak compared to your squat. Also RDL is not like full DL, you can bump the volume up a bit, don't ramp up to a heavy triple, keep doing sets in the 6-8 reps territory. But heavier than 135, 3x8 at 160-180-ish should be very doable for you. Start with ~160 and see how it goes.
Well, I believe the problem with my RDL is almost entirely with my grip strength. During my last workout I held on to 205 as long as I could (which I get is abysmally weak grip). I tried RDL again today and the only place it really felt challenging was my forearms. I don't really see a point in continuing with these small weights that aren't going to transfer to optimal gains (for my glutes and hams) because of my grip strength.
So for the time being I'm just going to stick to GHR's, hip thrusts and BSS and train my grip strength separately. Then maybe once I have well-developed forearms I'll transition to RDL's.

I hear you. I do have grip problems with RDL too. FWIW, it catches up fast, if you stick with it for a while. Straps are cheap too. But GHRs and BSS are awesome exercises that work great too, so suit yourself.
woot

LBSS

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2015, 10:48:24 pm »
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straps are cool and good.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2015, 05:17:47 pm »
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For god's shake NO again. Of course you could ( and should ) train both limit strength and RFD. My point was not to turn squats to speed(ish) squats, it would possibly compromise both, they would most probably be too light for strength training and too heavy for RFD. There is a time and a place for them too of course, but that would not be now imho. So do both but no in one drill. Do a fast exercise first and then your normal squats. That is a very common tactic, not only you train RFD, but that first fast exercise also potentiates and warms you up great for the 'slow and heavy' squats. Fast could be : jump squats, REA squats, speed squats, explosive box squats, push press, power cleans, power snatches, depth jumps, whatever you like.

Hmm, I'm unfamiliar with that approach, but it makes sense.
I've actually done the vice-versa of that a number of times, where you first do heavy lifting and then do a fast, low-weight version of the lift. It's based on Kelly Baggett's article on the Psycho Factor:
"...you perform one higher tension exercise to really activate or excite the CNS. You then follow it up with an exercise to take advantage of the CNS excitability, which temporarily boosts rate coding. In essence you're "tricking" your nervous system. Think of a baseball player swinging a bat loaded up with weights before he steps in the batters box with a regular bat. The loaded bat allows him to swing a regular bat with greater ease. Not only do you get a temporary boost in performance, but over time the thought is your body becomes more sensitive to the neural discharges from your CNS and learns to accept a new level of force as being normal for a particular movement, even in the absence of psychological excitement. The stimulation methods are also known as post-activation potentiation methods."

4/19
Did this workout
http://www.disquitos.fi/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/the-Snertz-Ultimate-Workout.pdf

It's pretty much a HIIT workout with some jumps thrown in
It wasn't too bad, but for some reason it was especially harsh on my lower back

A few months ago I realized my lower back was really weak because I would always lean back in my chair and crouch down on my toes between points when playing ultimate frisbee. I've been trying to fix it by always sitting up straight but it takes a lot of conscious effort because I'm so used to leaning back in my chair.

4/20
Tossed the disc with some guys and noticed a nagging pain in my groin when running and attempting to jump. Looks like I have a mild adductor strain.
I first noticed a slight discomfort in my anterior/medial hip area when squatting a few weeks ago. I didn't think anything of it because it went away after the first set.

vag

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #52 on: April 21, 2015, 04:19:01 am »
+1
Nah, kellyb preaches the opposite as a general rule too. Check all of his programs on his site, he has you do first some low impact plyo, then a speed-strength exercise ( depth jumps or jump squats usually ) and then the heavy squats.
In this specific article he talks about stimulation/potentiation techniques, used for peaking, how to get your CNS at a full-firing state at a specific moment. It is not about general strength training.
woot

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2015, 12:40:28 pm »
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It's been a week and I haven't really done any workouts because of my adductor strain
Just been doing rehab exercises, and hopefully the strain will be completely gone in another week
Went to the pool yesterday, did some underwater bounding and straight leg single leg jumps
Looking forward to getting back into workouts

Going to be trying out for club ultimate for the summer. I have my first tryout on Wednesday
Probably going to try a few hours of extended stride walking 24 hours prior to tryout, and do some heavy quarter squats 2-3 hours prior to tryout in order to potentiate my vert. I should probably do a movement efficiency workout at some point today or tomorrow as well
Gotta make sure to take it easy on the CNS so I have my maximum CNS effort during the tryout

If everything goes according to plan, my maximum reach should be uncontested!

LBSS

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2015, 12:45:52 pm »
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what team(s)? where you at?
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2015, 06:39:40 pm »
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what team(s)? where you at?

I'm in Baltimore, Maryland
The teams I'm going to try out for are Los Penguinos, American Hyperbole, DC Runtime and Medicine Men
MM and AH both have a number of players from the DC breeze and/or DC current, the pro teams in the MD/VA area.
I'm pretty excited, the competition at these tryouts is going to be on another level from anything I have previously experienced

LBSS

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2015, 07:26:40 pm »
+1
Oh right on! Somehow did not know or had forgotten that you were nearby. I'm in DC but up in Baltimore a lot because my GF lives there (Fells Point, although she's about to move to Canton). I sprained my ankle right at the beginning of the first season I'd have played men's club down here (2008) and then in subsequent years, as I got more into trying to dunk, I preferred a low commitment team. So I went mixed and uncompetitive -- we made regionals but were never a nationals contender. Ended up spraining my ankle again and after that said fuck it and retired from ultimate. I was plugged into the DC ultimate scene for a couple of years there but I've dropped off entirely. Hard to believe how long it's been, tbh.

LMK if you're down to train/throw around as it gets warmer. I'm going to add some intervals and sprinting/bounding back in and I'm in Baltimore every other weekend or so. There will be rust.

Good luck with your tryouts! Is there a reason you're not trying out for Truck Stop? Or Philly AMP?
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 07:28:14 pm by LBSS »
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2015, 08:45:10 pm »
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Wow, that's awesome! I had no idea you were into Ultimate or that you were in the area

It would be great to train or throw with you, only a few people on my college team work out frequently, so it would be great to get some input from someone with a lot of experience.

I actually live in Ellicott City, about 20 mins west of Baltimore. I'm currently in Baltimore because i'm dorming at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County. So I'll be here for another 3 weeks before moving back to EC

Philly is pretty far from EC, so no Philly Amp. Truck Stop is top tier and the way I've been playing this semester I don't think i'm ready to tryout for TS just yet

I hope your GF is doing ok with these riots going on only a few miles away from Fells Point. Shit is insane.

---------

Went to pickup yesterday, my adductor feels a little worse today. Wednesday tryout cancelled, so I think I'm gonna take a full week off from major workouts, just gonna stretch and do some upper body/body weight stuff. Gotta make sure adductor fully recovers.

Also I got insane calf cramps at the end of pickup. This happened a few times in high school when I played more than 2/3 of the points. Might have something to do with diet or maybe I didn't stretch well enough. Gonna add some roll-outs to my routine


LBSS

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #58 on: April 29, 2015, 10:00:26 am »
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You're tall and reasonably athletic, why not try out for Truck Stop? Worst thing that can happen is you get cut after testing yourself against the best collection of players in the DMV. Fair enough about Philly being too far from EC but years ago I had a couple of buddies who played for Hooray for Coed, Hooray! (a now-defunct elite mixed team out of Philly) while living in DC. They only practiced like once a month so it was doable. Anyway MM will also be good, if there are any of the same guys who were around when I was still playing they're a good crew.

The rioting is crazy and sad but what I'd say is much crazier is the long history of police brutality and active and passive economic oppression of West Baltimore.

I'll PM you the next time I'm up there, we could throw and do some sprints.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

sunday: run 14+ km
monday: lift
tuesday: run 10-12 km
wednesday: run 10-12 km
thursday: run 10-12 km
friday: rest
saturday: run tempo/VO2 max/speed x 6-8 km

FP

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Re: FP's Jump Journal
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2015, 06:38:14 pm »
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5/3
Measured my standing reach, it's 98".
Did some dlrvj's today, hitting a max of 32" and averaging around 30".
I've just realized that my vert is probably higher than my numbers because all of my measurements have been jumping up to touch as high as I can on a solid wall in front of me, meaning I'm not getting full arm swing, my approach isn't as aggressive because I don't want to bump into the wall, and I'm jumping slightly forward instead of straight up.
Also, it's really uncomfortable to do any sort of jump except dlrvj against a wall.
Adductor still hasn't recovered.

Do you guys have any thoughts about self myofascial release? I've heard some good things about it but also seen a few studies showing it doesn't do much