Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey! (Read 2896621 times)

LBSS · « **Reply #6255 on:** June 24, 2025, 07:43:22 am »

- run 59:51, 10.17 km
T+DI 156 despite air temp being 78/25.5. dew point 76/24.5. gnarly.

Joe · « **Reply #6256 on:** June 24, 2025, 04:13:51 pm »

Quote from: LBSS on June 23, 2025, 05:10:19 pm

with warm up and cool down those workout days would be 10.5-11.5 km, medium days are already 10-11 and could gradually build up to 13-14 (that was the plan anyway) and long run could just keep building bit by bit toward 42 until the 50k at end of october. that would mean weekly mileage starting around 70kpw and going up to 100kpw, give or take. and do weights on one of the easy weekdays in addition to the saturday.

ultra people talk about the importance of back-to-back long days but i feel like if i build up to a full marathon long run before the 50k, race the 50k, and then taper down to the 50 miler, that should be plenty. finishing 50 miles just doesn't seem that daunting. and wouldn't getting up at 6 AM to do a 3x10 less than 24 hours after finishing a long run serve the same purpose, pretty much?

I suspect your workout days would be longer, mine are like 10-10.5k and you're faster than me.

Also, I imagine wouldn't really be straying too far from the core concept if you changed i up to 2 x sessions + back-to-back long runs for a special block for your ultra.

LBSS · « **Reply #6257 on:** June 24, 2025, 05:38:06 pm »

not that much faster. but anyway i'm sure you're right about playing with the format.

LBSS · « **Reply #6258 on:** June 25, 2025, 07:47:26 am »

- mixed intervals, all with walking rest
-- warm up
-- 800 hard (2:47)
-- 3x1min hard (320,?,300)
-- mile "time trial" (5:51)
-- 3x1min hard (300,290,300)
-- 800 hard (2:50)
kind of a weird workout. T+DI 155 so the "time trial" i decided to do at just "faster than 5k". not unhappy with sub-6, given that it came with no prep and in the middle of a workout and with it being so gd hot. pretty much winged it with all the paces, really. there's a guy in the group who's significantly faster than me and much more experienced (ran in college) and for the most part i just tried to stay a reasonable distance behind him.

obviously, have not committed to the norwegian singles yet. i do enjoy the random track workouts, it was fun to run kind of fast today.

Joe · « **Reply #6259 on:** June 25, 2025, 04:14:23 pm »

Quote from: LBSS on June 24, 2025, 05:38:06 pm

not that much faster. but anyway i'm sure you're right about playing with the format.

yeah i think people over anchor on the 3x SubT + 3x Easy + 1 long run format as being the core, when really it's just "track load, don't do too much, but do more over time", and that format is what James settled on + works generally for most people

LBSS · « **Reply #6260 on:** June 26, 2025, 08:06:51 am »

indeed.

- run 56:31, 10.02 km
T+DI 158. HR averaged 131, guess i'm starting to adapt to the weather. i got my levelen sweat test in the mail so did that. will mail it back in today. BW started at 162.3 and ended at 160.5, and i drank 314mL of water before weighing myself again. total bw loss in the ~hour is 2.5 pounds, a bit less than the last time. will be interesting to see what my salt breakdown is.

LBSS · « **Reply #6261 on:** June 26, 2025, 09:32:11 am »

signed up to volunteer at an ultra near quantico in december, to run sweep on the 50k, picking up the marker flags and any other garbage over the final 10 miles, and making sure whoever's in last place makes it off the course.

LBSS · « **Reply #6262 on:** June 28, 2025, 11:57:34 am »

- extensive tempo intervals
-- warm up
-- 3 x 10min [4:27, 4:30, 4:33], 1-2min walking rest
-- cool down
too hard, given T+DI 156 (83+73), even resting 2min between the second and third intervals. had to walk for part of the cool down.

LBSS · « **Reply #6263 on:** June 29, 2025, 07:35:48 am »

interesting article on caleb wilson's training (he just won western states). https://evokeendurance.com/resources/caleb-olsons-build-to-a-course-record-at-transgrancanaria/

Joe · « **Reply #6264 on:** June 29, 2025, 08:51:36 am »

Quote from: LBSS on June 29, 2025, 07:35:48 am

interesting article on caleb wilson's training (he just won western states). https://evokeendurance.com/resources/caleb-olsons-build-to-a-course-record-at-transgrancanaria/

the bit i found most interesting is the physiology in the weighted uphills section. i'm sceptical (but not quite doubtful) of the claims in there. like what is muscular endurance/fatigue resistance as opposed to like improving LT1/LT2/general aerobic adaptation¹? is that really capturing the difference in the stimulus from those sorts of routines vs an unburdened _run_ up a hill vs a threshold session? i get that the cadence is going to be a lot lower, so it's maybe like 40% as many contractions to achieve the same power output. curious in how that cashes out in terms of lactate, respiration, or whatever other metrics we might care about.

did i ever show you the Nils Svensson (formerly Nils van der Poel) 'how to skate a 10k' memoir? now that's a good piece on how someone trained for an insane athletic performance (double WR/OR/gold in skating 5k/10k, which are basically equivalent to running 2.5k/5k): https://www.howtoskate.se/

Highlight:

¹ reminds me of the classic Greg Nuckols view where "strength endurance" is sort of not a real thing. You can train with sets of 20 and get better at doing more reps with 70% of 1rm without your 1rm changing much, or you can just do low rep training, increase your 1rm and end up being able to do as many reps with 56% of your new 1rm, i.e. same "endurance performance at a given weight" as if you'd done the other program: https://archive.ph/3UtUp

LBSS · « **Reply #6265 on:** June 29, 2025, 11:44:09 am »

yeah that is an interesting question. it's not like elite ultrarunners are carrying a substantial amount of weight during races, at most a couple kg of fluids and gels. maybe a little bit more if it's high elevation or otherwise has temperature swings or unpredictable weather and you need clothes. but obviously nothing like 35 or 50 pounds. so what's the specificity of rucking, as opposed to just running uphill with whatever kit you'll be racing with? not something i'm likely to introduce into my training, at any rate.

i'll check out the nuckols and svensson articles, thanks. that is quite a lot of hours on the bike. interesting that there's no rollerblading or slide board or anything more specific on that chart. and the nuckols thing reminds me of the point magness made the other day about kipyegon's sub-4 attempt: the gap between her 800 pace and what she'd need to run sub-4 is just too small. until a woman runs like 1:52, sub-4's gonna be out of reach. obviously not physiologically the same thing but similar principle.

- run 1:49:10, 16.34 km + 8:59, 0.95km walk
meant to run 10 miles but took a wrong turn earlyish in the run so stopped there and walked the rest of the way home. about km 3-12 were done on trails, with some quite steep climbs that i walked. T+DI 160, tropical. HR averaged 141 but with big swings given the climbing and descending. total elevation gain 300m.

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Author Topic: a fast and explosive donkey! (Read 2896621 times)

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