Author Topic: Two Hands Two Feet  (Read 502799 times)

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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #990 on: July 04, 2016, 07:03:34 pm »
0
squats look good. i disagree slightly with leonel: chucks are okay if you like 'em and i don't think the instability in your vid is that bad. but i'm a weightlifting shoe guy forever.

I don't thnk it's that important the shoes you wear...   I think you should actually spend a bit of time in barefeet as well.

Weightlifting shoes can be somewhat of a crutch IMO.  And they 100% contribute to achilles tendonitis.  I loved them and had some adistars and some of the Nike ones with the high heel.  The only thing I didn't like was that my shin flexibility is pretty bad and the really high heel allowed me to basically hide this.  I could semi-pistol squat at one point in my oly shoes and this is not something I am even close to pulling off in real life...  When I was really into oly squatting I could dip explosively to a full squat and explode out with a lot of weight even though I couldn't do this without oly shoes without falling over...

Spend some time squatting in the same shoes you jump in... Although not the same PAIR (the same shoes)... Squats will ruin your shoes.

I have a pair of ball shoes that I don't use for balling due to them being so heavy so I may squat in them.

Also what are your thoughts on squatting barefoot? I predominantly train at home now so this isn't an issue.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

T0ddday

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #991 on: July 04, 2016, 08:36:38 pm »
+1
squats look good. i disagree slightly with leonel: chucks are okay if you like 'em and i don't think the instability in your vid is that bad. but i'm a weightlifting shoe guy forever.

I don't thnk it's that important the shoes you wear...   I think you should actually spend a bit of time in barefeet as well.

Weightlifting shoes can be somewhat of a crutch IMO.  And they 100% contribute to achilles tendonitis.  I loved them and had some adistars and some of the Nike ones with the high heel.  The only thing I didn't like was that my shin flexibility is pretty bad and the really high heel allowed me to basically hide this.  I could semi-pistol squat at one point in my oly shoes and this is not something I am even close to pulling off in real life...  When I was really into oly squatting I could dip explosively to a full squat and explode out with a lot of weight even though I couldn't do this without oly shoes without falling over...

Spend some time squatting in the same shoes you jump in... Although not the same PAIR (the same shoes)... Squats will ruin your shoes.

I have a pair of ball shoes that I don't use for balling due to them being so heavy so I may squat in them.

Also what are your thoughts on squatting barefoot? I predominantly train at home now so this isn't an issue.

I'm not really too picky with my athletes as far as squatting barefoot, chucks, oly shoes, etc.  What's most important is that you wear what your comfortable in...

However dependence on any type of footwear is not a good thing...  So if you can squat 405 in your oly shoes but can't even sit in a deep squat barefoot we have a problem...  I think this can be addressed in your almost ever day work...  Gear up for the gym however you need but do your pistols, shrimp squats, etc in bare feet every so often... 

Nothing wrong with using whatever gear you need especially for non sports specific work - but your a dunker so if you can't wear it when dunking then make sure it's not dramatically effecting the movement.  That's my bottom line.

Also raised heel is really hell for the Achilles... Be aware of that... Track work and raised heel squats are a dangerous combo...

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #992 on: July 05, 2016, 05:43:17 am »
0
squats look good. i disagree slightly with leonel: chucks are okay if you like 'em and i don't think the instability in your vid is that bad. but i'm a weightlifting shoe guy forever.

I don't thnk it's that important the shoes you wear...   I think you should actually spend a bit of time in barefeet as well.

Weightlifting shoes can be somewhat of a crutch IMO.  And they 100% contribute to achilles tendonitis.  I loved them and had some adistars and some of the Nike ones with the high heel.  The only thing I didn't like was that my shin flexibility is pretty bad and the really high heel allowed me to basically hide this.  I could semi-pistol squat at one point in my oly shoes and this is not something I am even close to pulling off in real life...  When I was really into oly squatting I could dip explosively to a full squat and explode out with a lot of weight even though I couldn't do this without oly shoes without falling over...

Spend some time squatting in the same shoes you jump in... Although not the same PAIR (the same shoes)... Squats will ruin your shoes.

I have a pair of ball shoes that I don't use for balling due to them being so heavy so I may squat in them.

Also what are your thoughts on squatting barefoot? I predominantly train at home now so this isn't an issue.

I'm not really too picky with my athletes as far as squatting barefoot, chucks, oly shoes, etc.  What's most important is that you wear what your comfortable in...

However dependence on any type of footwear is not a good thing...  So if you can squat 405 in your oly shoes but can't even sit in a deep squat barefoot we have a problem...  I think this can be addressed in your almost ever day work...  Gear up for the gym however you need but do your pistols, shrimp squats, etc in bare feet every so often... 

Nothing wrong with using whatever gear you need especially for non sports specific work - but your a dunker so if you can't wear it when dunking then make sure it's not dramatically effecting the movement.  That's my bottom line.

Also raised heel is really hell for the Achilles... Be aware of that... Track work and raised heel squats are a dangerous combo...

Ok cool. I will continue to squat in flat shoes and throw basketball shoes in the mix every now and then.

I think my ankle mobility is decent though. Can sit in a full rock bottom bodyweight squat quite easily for time and can do a negative pistol on both legs. 
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #993 on: July 05, 2016, 05:47:45 am »
0
05/07/16

Attempted to finish yesterday's workout and do the vertical workout from today. Got interrupted halfway through though. Family still here from the US.

Anyway, did the following:

OHP-
bar x 10, 30 x 10, 40 x 10, 10, 10, 10

Jump Circuit-
VJ 1x10
SL VJ- 2x5
Max VJ- 2x3
Repetitive Jumps- 1x5
Missed half the workout

Not going to stress over it. Will do general mob later in the day and tomorrow and have a game tomorrow night.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #994 on: July 05, 2016, 10:39:51 am »
+1
disagree slightly with t0ddday. squats are GPP. i don't see why doing them in one kind of shoe or another would have more carryover to athletic movements. i can't squat deep without squatting shoes but if squats are just a part, rep- and effort-wise, of my training then what's the problem? i dunno, seems like the kind of false-carryover thinking that maxent would go for.

also not sure where he's getting the evidence for squat shoes causing tendinopathy.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #995 on: July 05, 2016, 08:57:12 pm »
0
disagree slightly with t0ddday. squats are GPP. i don't see why doing them in one kind of shoe or another would have more carryover to athletic movements. i can't squat deep without squatting shoes but if squats are just a part, rep- and effort-wise, of my training then what's the problem? i dunno, seems like the kind of false-carryover thinking that maxent would go for.

also not sure where he's getting the evidence for squat shoes causing tendinopathy.

Not sure he said tendinopathy. It was raised heel squatting (shortened achilles)plus track work being a dangerous combo.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #996 on: July 05, 2016, 10:52:48 pm »
+2
weightlifting shoes "100% contribute to achilles tendonitis." that's a type of tendinopathy.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

black lives matter

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #997 on: July 06, 2016, 03:23:40 am »
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weightlifting shoes "100% contribute to achilles tendonitis." that's a type of tendinopathy.

Cheers mate I was looking at his next reply down.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
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T0ddday

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #998 on: July 06, 2016, 09:37:00 pm »
+2
disagree slightly with t0ddday. squats are GPP. i don't see why doing them in one kind of shoe or another would have more carryover to athletic movements. i can't squat deep without squatting shoes but if squats are just a part, rep- and effort-wise, of my training then what's the problem? i dunno, seems like the kind of false-carryover thinking that maxent would go for.

also not sure where he's getting the evidence for squat shoes causing tendinopathy.

I agree that squats are GPP strength work.  That's why my recommendation was to do ADE work (pistols, shrimps, dorsiflexion mobility, etc) in bare feet and do your heavy squats in whatever shoes you like.  However...

I'm not arguing that squatting heavy in one shoe vs the another has more carryover to athletic movement but what I am reminding you of is that a lot of self trained athletes do neglect their mobility work, their flexibility, prehab, etc...  And while it's not a substitute for it - the warmup and squatting in barefeet or flat soles is better than nothing...

For example, I remember seeing the lifters at Broz gym warmup... It was amazing.  Barefoot broomstick work.  These guys could sit in a deep squat and move the bar to front rack, over head, back rack, all while walking in a deep squat, shifting weight to one foot, moving hips back and forth with tremendous range of motion.  This was their squat warmup and it didn't involve lifting shoes because it was designed as a hip opener and ankle mobility exercise... After this the lifters put on shoes and worked up to heavy triples of 2x body weight followed by a ridiculous amount of heavy doubles and singles...

My point is that if we take a weekend warrior and he isn't conscious of this - and he puts his oly shoes on before he gets to the gym and does all his workout in them he is going to be reducing his ankle and hip mobility over time...

This leads to my point about Achilles tendinitis.  Again, sure if we are a disciplined athlete we are doing our Achilles and calf prehab and we don't need to rely on squats and squat warmup for this... But is this really true for everyone?

As far as evidence about oly shoes and Achilles problems.  I'm not sure of any scientific evidence.  But there is a wealth of evidence about women wearing heeled shoes and Achilles problems.  Especially women who wear high heels for everything but jogging...

Given that evidence I don't think it's a stretch to believe that the anecdotal evidence I have is worth following... 

Imagine you work a desk job and sit all day.  Your main exercise is at the gym where you do cross fit or something that involves squats and for it you put on your oly shoes... This is your main exercise.  Then you also try to add in running of some type.  I wouldn't be surprised if you are more likely to suffer Achilles problems in this case than if you did your gym work without oly shoes....  If your job is sendentary and your main training is at the gym then you basically have your Achilles moving between inactive sitting and very shortened with your heel raise...

Now you throw on spikes and sprint?  Or go run on the beach?  Not wise.  I mean look at the poster alestor who wears elavator shoes to make himself taller and has Achilles problems... Raising your heel shortens your tendon... That's a fact.  I'm not saying it's dangerous to do once.  Or dangerous to do it while squatting... But if your not aware of it and don't do anything to give it length it could be dangerous...

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #999 on: July 07, 2016, 11:30:01 pm »
0
06/06/16- 7pm

Ball game. Lost by 1. Shit.

Was an interesting game. I think I had some bad fish oil after lunch so wasn't feeling great and if you've had bad fish oil you'd know where I spent the bulk of the afternoon. Anyway, even though I didn't really feel like playing I didn't want to let the guys down. Showed up with only a minute to go so didn't get a warm up in at all and my left knee was hurting just below the knee cap from the get go. Finally warmed up and am ready to play but we're down by 12. We only had 5 too so there was no rest.

The refs were horrible too. I'm normally easy on them cause it's not like we're playing in the NBA but they were bad. The other team put up a 3 from the top of the circle and it bounced off the rim and over the backboard, hit the wires on the other side and bounced back over and went in. They called it good. Was unbelievable. Both refs said they didn't see it but it was obvious they just didn't know what they were doing.  Our team was absolutely hacked by the other team in the paint too. We again asked the refs and their response was "well you're so much bigger than they are". We weren't any taller than them but just a bit older and more filled out.

We got to within 1 with about 30s to go and I forced a jump ball with 3.4 left on the clock and it was our ball (no jump balls after the start of the game). The inbounds went to the wrong guy and unfortunately he missed. Either way was a good effort to get back into it. 

Anyway, I actually had my best game for ages. 17 points incl 7/10 from the f/t line. Had a shit load of rebounds too. I'm disappointed I didn't have any blocks. I was never in a position to get any which is unusual for me. After the first 10 minutes I was actually beasting the other team though. I had nearly every offensive and defensive rebound. I was diving to get balls and just generally had an all around good game. Pulled up super sore though. Took a hit to the left knee which is sore but the rest I just feel like I've been tenderised.

Thanks for reading that if you made it all the way through.   
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #1000 on: July 07, 2016, 11:51:08 pm »
+2
08/07/16-

Had to push my training back a day as the body pulled up super sore from ball. Knees and right ankle were the worst. Have been burning the candle at both ends this week too with my family here from overseas so not to fazed by it.

9am gym sesh
Mobility circuit as per program

Jump circuit-
VJ 1x10
SL VJ 1x5
Max VJ 1x3
Cut this short given the body was sore and I've got jumps, track and gym tomorrow.

Lifting-
Squats-
bar x 10, 60 x 5, 80 x 5, 95 x 3, 110 x 2 (was meant to do 1 but didn't think I hit depth so did another. The video replay showed both were acceptable)

Deadlift-
60 x 5, 90 x 5, 110 x 3, 120 x 2, 130 x 1, 140 x 1, 145 x 1 (felt like a true 1RM)

Explosive push press-
bar x 5, 40 x 3, 50 x 3, 3, 3 (didn't feel so explosive)

Slant bench ab curl
10kg x 10, 10

Med ball toss - ran out of room to do in gym. Need to figure out a solution to this for next week.

Was a big session in the gym. Just over 90 mins all up. Felt good. Squats were strong. 110 is my training 1RM even though I'm probably capable of 120. I liked T0ddday's point about pushing the squats and track work and kind of trying to make everything else feel easy.

 
 
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LBSS

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #1001 on: July 08, 2016, 11:56:27 am »
+1
squatting in high tops?!  :o

seriously though those looked pretty good.
Muscles are nonsensical they have nothing to do with this bullshit.

- Avishek

https://www.savannahstate.edu/cost/nrotc/documents/Inform2010-thearmstrongworkout_Enclosure15_5-2-10.pdf

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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #1002 on: July 08, 2016, 08:08:12 pm »
0
squatting in high tops?!  :o

seriously though those looked pretty good.

Yeah these are my balling shoes (2012 hyperdunks). Felt pretty good squatting in them and was surprised how good they looked on video. 
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Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #1003 on: July 09, 2016, 11:40:11 pm »
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Left knee still giving me some trouble after the ball game. Going to rest up today and get back after it tomorrow for the start of week 2.

Summary of week 1:

Bit of a false start but loving the setup so far. Felt like I've chosen sensible weights to begin with and that should allow some decent progression with all the other volume. Haven't successfully completed a track or jump session yet though which is disappointing. It's been school holidays and I have had a big week with family here from overseas and have been out for dinner 3 times with 2 parties thrown in. Kids are back at school next week which will allow more structure to my week.

Overall very excited and can't wait to get stuck into week 2.
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky

Coges

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Re: Two Hands Two Feet
« Reply #1004 on: July 11, 2016, 10:24:52 pm »
+1
11/06/2016 7pm

Had to skip morning track session. Was up from 4am with my daughter and she decided not to go back to sleep. That meant getting out at 5am wasn't on the cards unless I wanted a very unhappy wife.

PM weights session went well though.

Squat-
bar x 10, 60 x 5, 80 x 3, 95 x 1
110 x 4, 100 x 7, 7

Hip Thrust-
70 x 10, 10

Overhead Press (was meant to use dumbbells but only have 1 set of collars)-
bar x 10, 30 x 10
40 x 10, 10, 7, 8

Chins- 
bw x 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5

Still need to get my slant bench organised. Think I have the perfect way to use my existing bench for this so will get it done next sesh.

Squats were solid. Especially the 100 x 7 sets which I thought I would struggle with.

12/06/2016

Woke up this morning at 91.7 and with a 35" waist. This is pleasing given I was pretty loose last week with the food and drink. Not looking too bad but really need to get sub 90 and maybe as low as 86-87.

*Edit- Forgot to mention I trained with my wife last night. She did squats and deadlifts. First time ever doing either with a barbell. She deadlifted 60kg (over her bw) easily and once she gets the hang of the movement I can see her going to 90-100 pretty easily. She squatted 50 but got pinned on the 2nd rep. Problem was I was videoing to show her how she was going. Had to help out with the phone in my right hand and ended up grabbing that side of the bar with my pinky finger and racking it for her and ended up straining the entire pinky finger side of my hand and forearm. Grip is fine if I use the whole hand but anything on the pinky side is painful as fuck.
Pretty stoked she got up to 60kg DL though. She did it so easy too.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 11:12:27 pm by Coges »
"Train as hard as possible, as often as possible, while staying as fresh as possible"
- Zatsiorsky